#Prototype Pattern Groups

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

empty arrow
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(LL4 w/ 4 players)

placid glacier
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Ooo

ashen crown
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I did so much precise math, and now

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Next sitrep, every enemy in the sitrep will start the combat within zeal range

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And it's a Low Grav Control

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with an Elite Cataphract, tons of Dangerous Terrain, and a Barricade

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Everyone will be claiming objectives by the second turn >:D

placid glacier
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working on a Machine Hatchet

image.png
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I wanna make the left leg look more slapdash so I will probably try and find a way to get some overgrowth on it-

ashen crown
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1st fight of the mission:
Throwing 2 brigands with Surgekiller and Grav Amp

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And a very very dangerous Zealot

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Mmmm... nah I should save Grav Amp for the fight afterwards

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Traded down to Rescind, although quite a few other options sounded very very fun

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Traded sideways to commandeer because the opfor knows what's coming and they specifically are trying to counter my players

vagrant grotto
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I’d start with:

  • Occultist gets -2 HP at all tiers
  • Maybe reduce Overshield from Reap to 3/5/7
  • Reduce Drone HP to 1
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Ehh maybe -4 hp all tiers

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16/20/24

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Not sure if it should be able to deploy two 1 hp drones per action, or just 1

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Try it with just 1 and lemme know

empty arrow
ashen crown
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Question: if I Commandeered a Kidd’s drone, would the Kidd still be able to use Reroute Power on it?

vagrant grotto
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they need to reclaim it before they can send the self-destruct command

vagrant grotto
# empty arrow Will do, leaning towards deploying them at t2 with this 🫡

Tweaked things further. Try this:

  • Occultist Base HP reduced to 15/18/21
  • Flock Drone HP reduced to 1. Occultist deploys 2 at a time upon entering the scene or activating the system
  • Reap the Chaff Overshield reduced to 3/5/7
  • Doubling Season (Veteran) removes the "deploy 2 Flock drones" and replaces it with "if you choose to destroy 2 targets with Reap the Chaff, deploy 1 flock drone adjacent to the occultist as a free action"
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Thinking about adding better styling to the LCP. Started looking into how to add Small Caps though.... and it looks incredibly irritating lol

vagrant grotto
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small caps look so good but ughhhhhh

vagrant grotto
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I am nuts to do this but I'm doing it, I made keybindings and everything

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VSCode Emmet saving my sorry ass here

muted blaze
placid glacier
placid glacier
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while I had my editor still open I wanted to also make a non-elite/non plasma knife version

hatchet.png
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just in case I needed one

vagrant grotto
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Lookin sick, love it haha

vagrant grotto
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Realized that I didn't actually update Flashbang Projector in the LCP, WHOOPS. That'll get patched next release

vagrant grotto
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upside of taking the past 8 hours on and off to add HTML formatting has been finding numerous LCP mistakes, like forgetting to update the Prism's primary role and adding {brackets} around some tier-scaling numbers

ashen crown
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question valk- what are your Gauntlet rules?

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Should prolly @vagrant grotto for questions lol

vagrant grotto
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my old ones were Bad™️, if anyone mentions ones that ended early if players didn't contest the zone for 2 rounds in a row, tell them that I no longer use them lol

muted blaze
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The new rules include CRANKING something

vagrant grotto
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yes basically

ashen crown
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Yeah I thought any old rules were not viewed upon favorably lol- hence why I was curious about the current ones

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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In that there would be multiple objectives to claim and crank around a singular central objective?

vagrant grotto
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yes

ashen crown
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Any recommendations for # of objective objects and points needed to win?

vagrant grotto
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4 objectives is a good number

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can go more or less; if you do 3 I'd say aim for 2xPC count points

ashen crown
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And only actions allow you to gain points?

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aka 1 quick action

vagrant grotto
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yes

ashen crown
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Would sticking to the normal Gauntlet Round Limit be fine?

vagrant grotto
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though I'll support GM rulings for stuff that make sense

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I wouldn't have a round limit here, if possible

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I'd have a racing clock of some sort probably

ashen crown
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Gotcha gotcha

vagrant grotto
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like, Pathfinder 2e gets by without round limits because it doesn't design its fights to last 8-10 rounds lol

ashen crown
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Fair nuff fair nuff- for this specific sitrep a round limit ain't necessary but tbh the only way I can see circumventing that is endless reinforcements since the PCs are the aggressors, not the defenders

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And unlike a control the NPCs and PCs aren't on equal footing

vagrant grotto
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sure; NPCs will always be on the backfoot because they're NPCs

ashen crown
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Meant moreso in terms of map design

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Like in a Holdout the PCs would be on the backfoot narratively and in the context of the map, even though they're PCs and so much stronger

vagrant grotto
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sure yeah

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I'd say that extracting your pound of flesh is "victory" enough in most cases

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players have to get through the rest of the mission after all

ashen crown
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The main point of a ticking clock against them is to have a reason to not just "kill all the NPCs" is the thing, which is occasionally easier and less resource taxing than pushing for the objective- occasionally

vagrant grotto
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sure, IMO the solution there is "make the objective easier to do than killing everything"

ashen crown
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Fair nuff

vagrant grotto
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don't need infinite reinforcements, just enough to make cranking the objective several times worthwhile as an alternative

ashen crown
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Hence keeping it at 2x player count, I getcha

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And would contesting the cranks be like they would be for Control?

vagrant grotto
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yup yup

ashen crown
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aight thanks!

vagrant grotto
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give em some basic HASE skills to use, but be permissive of other Skill Triggers/strategies

ashen crown
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Good call good call

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PErsonally Hull and Systems makes the most sense to me- Hull being bullying and brute forcing enemies off of it and Systems being hacking it more directly

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Though I think the two HASE skills in question can differ depending on the sitrep

vagrant grotto
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yeah it's all context sensitive

ashen crown
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Wonder what kinda scenario would prompt Engineering and Agility lol

vagrant grotto
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I had Agility + Hull for "secure these control shipments"

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Engineering would be for anything involving mechanical repair/tweaks instead of digital interfacing

ashen crown
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Hm, I was gonna disagree with then but then I thought about why Burn checks are engineering and yeah you right. Never thought Engineering referred to repair abilities when it came to HASE checks until now, good call

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Trying to hotwire a device or something to function is probably a good prompt for Systems and Engineering lol

vagrant grotto
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exactly

viral bobcat
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To be sure I have it right, if I start a Zealot's Fanatical Charge, and it has four other allies immediately within its Zeal radius, I can have the allies' reactions interrupt the Zealot's movement, such that when the Zealot "ends its movement", they can have moved in such a way that the allies all get Overshield? I.E., they kind of move as a group and all save the Zealot get OS at the end?

ashen crown
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... example please?

viral bobcat
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I knew I worded that badly.

ashen crown
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Oh wait I think I get it

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You mean the Boost Reaction

viral bobcat
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Yeah.

ashen crown
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Yeah I'm pretty sure the intent is that they move to where the Zeal Aura is when the Zealot is at the end of their movement so they get overshield

viral bobcat
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I'm reading the OS granted by Fanatical Charge happens at the end of the movement, but wasn't entirely sure if the allies who take the boost reaction--assuming they end in the Zeal aura--could get that OS or not.

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Since usually reactions after "after" a thing happens. Idk, wording hard.

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I.E., Zealot (circled in red) begins a Fanatical Charge; all four of the hostiles around it can move with it southwards and get the OS? (rz don't look)

SPOILER_image.png
ashen crown
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I think the intent is allies that take the boost reaction are supposed to get the overshield so long as they move with the zealot

viral bobcat
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Excellent. Thank you!

placid glacier
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:D

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Look ma I'm in the big leagues now! /j

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
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Thanks for asking! I think I can definitely clarify the wording in next release

vagrant grotto
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I will also welcome feedback on how GMs and players feel about the current size of Zeal

ashen crown
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Well next combat will have a zealot so you should get immediate feedback

ashen crown
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So I was thinking about your version of Gauntlets Valk- see, the idea sounds fun but I’m slightly hesitant due to the fact it gives the players very little reason to stick to the objective points

vagrant grotto
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They literally have to be adjacent to the objective points to use them

ashen crown
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See there’s a reason to force enemies off the objectives, in that they’d contest it otherwise. To make it distinct from a control and also make it more actively siege styled you can only crank them as a quick action

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But there’s not really a reason to start your turn next to them or spend time in between your turns next to them

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Maybe this is me being worried about nothing idk

vagrant grotto
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Alright, add a protocol option if uncontested if you’re anxious about it

ashen crown
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That feels like it steps too much on Control’s toes but maybe

vagrant grotto
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The value of standing next to them is that you can contest the enemy and they don’t overwatch you

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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If default control doesn’t step on default gauntlet’s toes, this shouldn’t either IMHO

ashen crown
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You know what fair enough

vagrant grotto
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Apologies for being flippant

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If anything IMO this unifies “control” and “gauntlet” by making it a matter of Objective Proximity

ashen crown
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Yeah I was just insecure because I’d be running a Gauntlet and Control back to back, and even if I’d probably run into the same issue with the CRB versions of the Sitrep I can’t shake the feeling I’d be running the same objective but again

vagrant grotto
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Showing how you get a different game if you just literally move some objects around on the map

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Spatially it matters because in Gauntlet everything might be close enough to exist under a Hardlight Barrier

ashen crown
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Tru tru

vagrant grotto
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Players still need to crank the objective

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NPCs don’t, but they’re trying to throw PCs off/contest

ashen crown
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I’m just more hesitant because unlike changing the point system but keeping the zone the same, this change relies more on me not fucking up the translation and I suppose I don’t have a lot of faith in myself to do that.

vagrant grotto
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Don’t worry, it’ll be fine

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Yup, by simply putting the obj in a defensive position for NPCs, the entire dynamic changes

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This is partially why I think CRB sitreps are overwrought

ashen crown
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What would your thoughts be on making one bigger objective (say size 2 instead of size 1) that can be cranked by each PC 1/turn? For the Gauntlet I mean?

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Or more generally, having a smaller number of objectives but removing the “each objective can be cranked once per round” condition?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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I’m imagining it could make things more spatially distinct and interesting- the big challenge against the PCs in Gauntlets (from my experience) is the objective becoming too crowded out to contest, so decreasing the spread of objectives could help translate that better

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Yeah exactly

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Just consider what contesting might mean

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If they need to be adjacent to the cranker or just adjacent to the objective

ashen crown
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Ohhhh

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I think it’d be very fun to say “adjacent to the cranker” in this scenario over “adjacent to the objective.” Means more spatial fuckery

vagrant grotto
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I recognize I’m being dangerously vague with “what are the requirements to contest” and that is deliberate

ashen crown
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And makes Grapples from NPCs far more dangerous

vagrant grotto
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I highly encourage GMs to make rulings based on context here, in any case

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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Good

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The issue with CRB sitreps, in my humble opinion, is that they’re so concrete they’ll pull you down and drown you in the bay if you let them

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Hyperbole, sure

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But this is a TTRPG and we can have better flexibility as a result

ashen crown
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Yeah it’s just not what I’m used to

ashen crown
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IGF spoilers- @vagrant grotto Using your control rules for this map (with the solid green objects (aka has a border and fill of green) being the objectives), thoughts on the spacing? Also asking you @muted blaze for a second opinion since you designed the map. THe map is also Low Gravity so technically everyone has Jump Jets

SPOILER_image.png
muted blaze
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I'd probs have the objectives more central to the points

ashen crown
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I was making dedicated tokens for them but then I thought "well would it not make more sense to make the cover that's already part of the scene the points?" Would you recommend against that?

muted blaze
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I made the cover on the map so that it's around the edges of the points mostly, making it the points shifts around where the scoring characters want to be standing

ashen crown
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Ah not a good call, gotcha

muted blaze
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I mean, it could be

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It's a concern. But until it's played IDK how it will go

ashen crown
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Nah if that was the intent then this would be working against the intent

muted blaze
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my argument was gonna be a big specific size 2 enemy could hunker down behind the top left point and be where they normally couldn't be on the point. Then I realised they can just do that

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Anyway

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When I was ggonna get to this mission I was honestly just planning on using these rules but keeping the point large and not tying it to an object

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Or you could experiment and make it like, all the computers on a point as one objective

ashen crown
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Being more central makes them still play around the same zone is the thing

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I prefer there being a dedicated object for it personally, makes the space tighter and easier to knock people off of

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It just slightly annoys me it can't be symmetric but eh

vagrant grotto
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Symmetry is overrated

muted blaze
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Cursed thought

SPOILER_image.png
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Spread 'em out and make 'em the spaces in front of the computers

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As suggestions

vagrant grotto
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Valid

muted blaze
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Coming to realisation top left point has horrible cover unless you're small

ashen crown
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Eh, I'd rather they be constestable from all sides tbh

muted blaze
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And to that I say, the certain veteran who can spawn up there can just camp it from behind so... Lol, lmao even

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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I was fixating on the “dangerous” with green borders as objectives and thus getting incredibly confused

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Now I understand

ashen crown
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Yeah sorry that's why I specified

muted blaze
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Me playing the objective

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Honestly, that would make a very funny map

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A control where ALL The points are dangerous terrain

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Or some of them are

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Reward Lancaster players with whitewash

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I mean, yeah give it a shot how is... If it works it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't

ashen crown
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The reference map is overlayed for reference so apologies for any minor eye annoyance but is this better?

SPOILER_image.png
muted blaze
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Damn

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I'm having retrospective map design thoughts

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Right side has dense cover. Both sides can shot eachother but are blocked by cover

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Left side is suffering unless you're small or size 2

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To that I say... Lmao

ashen crown
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I think it works well because the size 1/2 Commander is there, so you're building around it

muted blaze
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But you can also hide in the depth 2 areas

ashen crown
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Wondering if I should swap the positions of the Bombard and Deluge

muted blaze
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OMG Yeah I meant to do that

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Oh yeah having a bombard on the point is probably clever

ashen crown
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What I want is for everyone to be within the Zealots Zeal when combat starts so the Fanatical Charge can be devestating

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And because it's a boost, they can just fly over any and all cover

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So the Cataphract can fly 10 spaces and just land in the next objective zone

muted blaze
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In the size 2 hole

ashen crown
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Actually that may be smarter

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Since the Bombard is gonna be dangerous to leave alone keeping it out of combat near entirely could be the play

muted blaze
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It can sit on the top right point and shit out protocol captures for the top right objective

ashen crown
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tru tru

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But being off the point entirely means the players would have to leave the point to deal with it

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It's the difference between grabbing more points or stopping the players from getting points

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Also I think having an assault per side so each flank is "Artillery-Controller-Striker" with the Cataphract and Zealot down the middle lane to act as a vanguard and as wildcards is the play

muted blaze
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With 4 players, that's a good consideration. With 5 they can just do that in the case of my game

ashen crown
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I do have 4 players

muted blaze
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yee

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But because of these rules. A person on the top point can capture the point, run to it in the pit. Blast it then run back to the point that or next turn

ashen crown
muted blaze
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Honestly, do it so you can see how it plays out with the new Control rules

ashen crown
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Thanks to Fanatical Charge I can keep the Bombard where it is and have it Boost into the Pit if it needs to be there

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The good thing about the players going first is it allows me to choose which lane needs to be prioritized

muted blaze
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VAAAAAAAAAALK

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Does Zealots Burning fervour apply to tech attacks?

vagrant grotto
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I’m not mad at you, I’m mad at WORDS

muted blaze
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HAHA

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:D

vagrant grotto
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using WORDS is hard, because WORDS MEAN THINGS

sudden cosmos
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Ain't that just the way of it

muted blaze
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Is it getting patched or is it now a feature

sudden cosmos
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I'm looking to drop an anchor in a combat in two weeks (assuming PCs take that route). Do you reckon there'll be any changes to them from 1.5 to then?

ashen crown
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Thanks for the reminder actually- I need to give the Zealots I put in the combat after this one Burning Fervor

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I'm very tempted to put it on this one but it's already a Veteran Commander Anomaly with Martyrdom

muted blaze
ashen crown
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Ever so slightly tempted to give him Heliocide because it would fit but nah, I'll save that for when they encounter him again later

sudden cosmos
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Yes. Anchor.

muted blaze
ashen crown
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Plus I'm sure my players have been dying to confront the pilot face to face due to narrative reasons

sudden cosmos
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I'm also looking to hit the party with a full PPG comp in what I'm guessing will be about a month.

ashen crown
sudden cosmos
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Hatchet, Prism, Mesmerist, Knight, and Occultist

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
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He also has Forced Obsolescence so that'll be fun

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
sudden cosmos
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Also they're all veteran anomalies

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So they're all getting their class vet ability

muted blaze
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Elite spite

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
sudden cosmos
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If it's the stuff you mentioned a short while ago, I've hand edited those in already

vagrant grotto
sudden cosmos
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That's the test yay

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It's arguably 2 DPS, a defense, a controller, and a support

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
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Honestly... Kinda like that?

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Stand out of cover and take the hits for the protocol. Or stand in cover and get in for it as a quick

sudden cosmos
ashen crown
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Yeah the objectives imo should absolute be out of cover for the most part, sticking with them should be inherently risky

vagrant grotto
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Pack some Jerichos, we’ve got a score to settle

ashen crown
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I also like how the Deluge, the Cover Killer- is on the side with a big pit across objectives, meanwhile the cover makers the Barricade and Bombard are on the spot of the map with the most cover, meaning they can slowly choke out most reasonable ways to cross over (then again, Low Gravity)

vagrant grotto
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Inside the GM there are two wolves: One that says “I should add more cover to this map” and the other that says “GMS Smoke Charges and Jericho deployable cover are available from LL0”

ashen crown
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The cover isn't for the players

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It never is

muted blaze
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Even if there's too much cover

vagrant grotto
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The second voice is a recent one for me, tbf

ashen crown
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Cover to me is rarely ever good for the players- it's meant to obstruct and inconvenience them when it comes to getting/attacking from point a to point b

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NPCs are the ones that should be getting the most benefit from them

vagrant grotto
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Valid take too yeah

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I will say that tongue in cheek aside, Cover Options being a Build Issue isn’t something I’m super happy about with the current state of Lancer Loadouts

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If Lancer supported loadout swapping better between rests, I’m sure the second voice would have more of a leg to stand upon

muted blaze
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Cover should benefit whoever the Sitrep deems it to benefit. Either being totally random and benefitting from coincidence or benefitting due to intention of where the battlefield takes place.

ashen crown
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In terms of NPC niches, there are a scant number of NPCs that enjoy a Whiteroom, little to no cover map

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Meanwhile there are countless PC builds that enjoy them

muted blaze
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I don't fully support the Cover is never for the players because on that extent to the extreme. A gauntlet would be best iwth a bunch of cover on the point and none for the players... That is the extreme end, but cover should be useful for both sides but not necesseraly convenient for both sides. That's where terrain destruction and cover systems come in

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Honestly, if I ever have 2 SP spare in my build. Smoke grenades are one of the gotos to pick up for me, even if I don't use them much

ashen crown
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So I decided to give a size 2 Gauntlet Objective with 1/turn cranks a try, and placed a scattershot of the initial NPCs in the Enemy Deployment- thoughts? IGF Spoilers btw

SPOILER_image.png
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Wait this should make the space occupied more clear- the idea is that the objective isn't an obstruction or anything, you just can't end your movement within it- so unless they're reactions no taking actions within it or landing on top of it

SPOILER_image.png
vagrant grotto
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Seems fine? I might suggest Size 3 but this may work

ashen crown
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Think this would work about as well as a few size 1 objectives

ashen crown
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Size 2 causes a greater amount of push and pull imo

vagrant grotto
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Wasn’t sure if you were using “opposed check if an enemy is adjacent to you” vs “adjacent to objective”

ashen crown
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I was thinking "adjacent to you" so good reminder because that does change things

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I made it size 2 because I couldn't find a good way to work a singular or multiple size 1s into the map design

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Really trying to design around the Spite here

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IT's a rebake spite and I'm ruling it so that the objective do count as terrain for the purposes of the Edict that makes you unable to stand near size 1 or larger characters or objects

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Because... funny

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Though tbh maybe I shouldn't do that considering all the terrain around it

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
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What makes sense in fiction

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Obstructing the PC or interfacing with the objective

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If the obj was bigger, I’d say “pc adjacency”

ashen crown
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I think obstructing the PCs

vagrant grotto
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It’s in a middle ground now with size 2 and satellite size 1s

ashen crown
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Since its a door interface, it's designed to be interfaced with

vagrant grotto
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Then let the fiction guide the challenge

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Players will figure something out

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And if they don’t, they lose! And that’s okay too

ashen crown
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Not like there's a round limit for this combat

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So it's not really a race against the clock

placid glacier
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hm- would Anomaly fit on ||[The Broadcast]||?

vagrant grotto
placid glacier
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not sure- would have to look at the list again

vagrant grotto
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It’s a ||Spite right? Memento Culpa’s an easy one there||

placid glacier
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true enough

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would pair well

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already used Memento Culpa on my most recent boss tho- don't wanna take the impact away using it again so soon even tho I did really enjoy it

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||Counterfactualize?||

vagrant grotto
# placid glacier already used Memento Culpa on my most recent boss tho- don't wanna take the impa...

I was gonna say to try my WIP wording of ||Stolen Cycles||:
||```
The Anomaly makes a tech attack against a character that can OVERCHARGE in SENSORS. On a hit, the Anomaly chooses an ally within SENSORS. 1/scene, the ally may OVERCHARGE using the target’s OVERCHARGE counter. This increases the target’s counter, but the ally takes the Heat. This may affect a character only once per FULL REPAIR.

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Or one of the ||other techy ones||

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Or ||Awakening||

placid glacier
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it'll prob be a hot second until I actually run ||The Horde|| so it won't be fast playtesting but-

placid glacier
granite saddle
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Working on the mother of all shitposts rn. Shitpost encounter ? Encounter Shitpost ? You get it.
You know it's good because it's almost entierly unreadable.
||Also because I'm quickly running out of quotes.||

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I was struck by a sudden burst of inspiration and am making this all of the problems. To me mainly.

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Anomaly template in a nutshell I guess.

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
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I think it's inspiring how Anomaly is simultaneously the most shitpost-y template ever, and the most narratively potent template I've seen yet.

vagrant grotto
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Like everything else in the supplement, Anomaly is proof-of-concept, experimental, and likely rough around the edges, but I’m happy with how a lot of its stuff landed

muted blaze
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Anomaly is a testament that we dont have enough wacky bullshit™️ in our game that has a lot of wacky bullshit™️ in the lore

vagrant grotto
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There are so many angles to attack the character sheet but most folks just pick “HP” followed by “Heat” smh my head

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Unrelated: when I see folks mention running a pure PPG OpFor I think “should I have made more Strikers and Artillery?” And then I remind myself that about 50% of the CRB classes are Strikers/Artillery and decide “I’m good, actually”

sudden cosmos
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I'm enjoying the wealth of defenders and supporters

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Of the four fights I've got with PPG NPCs in it, three of them are in the defense or support slot of the comp

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And the fifth is an all PPG fight so that's kinda moot

vagrant grotto
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Yeah no it’s extremely evident what my favorite roles are hahaha

granite saddle
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Hey my all PPG OpFor is currently my favorite OpFor so. It even works pretty well.

vagrant grotto
#

Excellent, I’ll pretend I did that on purpose

sudden cosmos
#

All I know about the all anomaly PPG opfor I've set up is that I'm gonna make the sunzi big mad with the spatial rend prism

vagrant grotto
#

Good

sudden cosmos
#

Flavoring it as the shards shooting them while they're in the blink

#

Hatchet has Pegasus Knife (obviously)
Prisim has Spatial Rend
Knight has Heliocide
Mesmer has Stolen Cycles
Occultist has Memento Culpa

vagrant grotto
#

Cross class ideas:

  • Paladin: Knight base with Zeal instead of Templar’s Shield
  • Occultist with any drone(?)
#

Mesmerist with Lodestone instead of Memetic Magnetism

granite saddle
#
  • The invisible intangible hand of the free market : Ghost Zealot (or Zealot Ghost)
vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know what that would look like

#

Ah ok

#

Drop Paradox State for Zeal I guess

granite saddle
#

Yeah

#

And/or ghastly vigor for more zealot stuff

#

It's suprisingly Not Entirely Broken, because that's a lot of heat to be throwing around on two people at once

south cypress
#

I think I just really like Vultures

placid glacier
#

same- I've only used them a couple times but they really grew on me

#

Hatchets are still my new go to though

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

Terrified of what havoc an OppSal Vulture and an Occultist could wreak but I have a feeling that it wouldn’t be insurmountable…

ashen crown
#

Biggest fuck you you can send to your players:

  • Parting Gift Heliocide Telefrag Operator (if Kai Rebake add Deniable Asset)
muted blaze
#

Honestly, I would personally say only one of them triggers

#

From vibes alone atleast

placid glacier
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

Mmm barbeque….

granite saddle
#

Same for self-destruct

#

(no I didn't have exactly the same idea what do you mean)

ashen crown
#

I mean at that point that feels like it’s going against intent

#

Like it becomes an “invulnerable star of the same size,” that doesn’t sound like it just doesn’t happen if the mech self destructs, and having Heliocide completely disabled by self erasure sucks too

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

The self-erasure thing crossed my mind but my thought at the time was “surely if this matters the GM will simply remove self-erasure” videogames

#

I’ll add it to the bug tracker and ponder it

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

🫡

#

I think I also found another thing last night language related but honestly it probs just blended with me confusing it with other stuff

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Trying to think if there’s any of my NPCs that I have actually never playtested

#

I think I’ve never personally used:

  • Capacitor
  • Ghost
  • Prism
  • Torrent

And I have yet to use Brigand and Anomaly in any context

#

Hm

sudden cosmos
#

Well, I can vouch for torrent being a goofy little guy

#

Great for messing up a control sitrep

granite saddle
#

And I can confirm it is seen as such, re: the average lifespan of my Torrents in my position-based sitreps

#

"Hey Tagetes, I think we're gonna have to kill this guy"
"Damn"
"Damn"

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Ya know, on the one hand, I could replace the Bombard in the next sitrep with a Napalm and it’d fit extremely well into the sitrep for an abundance of reasons.

On the other hand I miss Bombard and haven’t gotten the chance to use one this whole campaign :(

vagrant grotto
#

The old coin toss has never failed to help me decide

#

“Tails? I didn’t want that one. I’m going with the other one”

ashen crown
#

No I’m absolutely sticking with the Bombard is the thing

#

It may be a control, there may be a barricade, but also I have a drone player and a Commandeer Archer it’s too good an opportunity to pass up

#

And there’s several new non CRB NPCs (read: 2 who have structure templates) this encounter I don’t need to add another

muted blaze
#

Doesn't help that I want to say in the briefing "expect burn enemies" and a napalm supplimenting a bombard would be so good... However I miss bombards

vagrant grotto
#

Compromise: Replace Bombard Cannon with STC

ashen crown
#

Imma be real that sounds like the worst of both worlds

vagrant grotto
#

Valid

#

I’ll see myself out

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

With the Kai bombard it would just be redundant

#

CRB Bombard, it increases base damage not bonus for all targets so the STC will M E L T and deal +2 burn per target in the area whereas the kai one only works on the bombard cannon

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

True

#

Quite easy to proc of 2 people usually... Control maybe not so much but on a party of 5 for me easier

vagrant grotto
#

Sure, line 5 is contained within Blast 2

muted blaze
#

And range 25 -> 15 is significant

ashen crown
#

it’s also a heat 4 weapon and the Bombard Cannon modifiers no longer work

muted blaze
#

ya

ashen crown
#

Plus you miss out on the Napalm optionals and features that specifically tie into the Salamander

muted blaze
#

You just miss out a lot

vagrant grotto
#

I’m assuming that red pen is applied on the parts that say “bombard cannon” but sure

ashen crown
#

Man a lot of artillery really define themselves by their one gun

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Yeah:

  • Assault and their rifle
  • CRB Operator and the Raptor
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#
  • Scourer and their laser
ashen crown
#

Ok yeah I don’t got anything against that

vagrant grotto
#

This is me tongue in cheek calling some CRB “strikers” for what they really are

#

Yes I goofed on Op, shush

muted blaze
#

Any PC mech with a heavy mount and their heavy mount

#

I don't really think it's an inherent problem tbh

vagrant grotto
#

Oh it’s not

#

I’m here for it, it simplifies things greatly

muted blaze
#

ya

#

And then like, if you find a fun combo then you can make a gimmick with templates to make their new cool stuff work on something else

vagrant grotto
#

It allows me to allocate headspace to the Save On Burn for Adhesive Gel

muted blaze
#

Brutus from Dustgrave being a bastion by name and name alone

#

Also realised, the Salamander from L:EC on retrograde can make a good lookin' Napalm

vagrant grotto
#

“Draw line, make attack, force saves, pass turn” perfection chefkiss

muted blaze
#

Lots of enemies with no optionals can simple turns like that

#

When a new player was joining mid way through I ran an example opfor with no optionals and I was just like

vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know why but I always envisioned the Napalm as a Fallen Walker from Destiny

muted blaze
#

"I... Guess I ram" and then like everything was rams

vagrant grotto
#

The big cannon doesn’t look anything like a catapult but like the bulbousness is the crucial part

muted blaze
#

Napalm

#

If you coloured it

#

I can just imagine that cannon just charging up a goop blast and spitting out a massive scorching line of Fire

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah, currently I’m using the Ptolemy as my placeholder token

#

Salamanders a good shout though

muted blaze
#

If putting more work into it, having a bombard with a bigass fucking goop launcher would work well

#

DFG Acedia could also work quite well, if the gun was made more goopy and less electric

Retrograde-Minis-Homebrew-MFR-DFG-ACEDIA.png
#

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

#

This is motivating me to slap a Napalm down into the combat but I don't wanna take away the bombard

#

Or I could be a massive pain and just have both

vagrant grotto
#

The new hotness is attractive, I get it 😎

But stick with Bombo Dombo

muted blaze
#

I could have one in the next combat

#

Which is a L:EC Breach and clear

#

Because blocking attack lanes could be fun if they spawned in one of the first zones

#

Or the second

vagrant grotto
#

Depends on how much you value consistency

muted blaze
#

In what way?

vagrant grotto
#

If roster good, and Breach/Clear is same faction, use bombard again

muted blaze
#

I like Faction rosters, I don't have one and I am kinda just going "Random bullshit go" because it's too late into the act for me to care

vagrant grotto
#

Which act # by the way

muted blaze
#

1

granite saddle
#

Oh btw, would you actually consider something like this ?

placid glacier
muted blaze
#

Amazing

placid glacier
#

From when I did the all anomalous encounter

muted blaze
#

"Understandable"

sudden cosmos
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

Plus I’ve never run an eidolon, and would rather just use an eidolon outright rather than a watered down one, I think

#

If you try it though lemme know

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

I’m much more comfy designing my own novel stuff, Heliocide and extruded knives and unit promotions/demotions

sudden cosmos
#

Funny enough, I actually picked some of the anomaly abilities because they're similar to eidolon layers the party will be encountering

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Got it, understood. It’s not in the cards

granite saddle
#

It's gonna take some work to make it work, since it's not just a single layer directly lifted from an Eidolon, but hey I can manage

empty arrow
#

Oh we’re all in the same boat huh, I’ve been fielding anomalies in a mission that’s got an eidolon at the end of it too

#

I threw together a really quick “lamellar” template that adds really direct translations of some of the layer abilities that I’ll put right at the entrance to the metavault

#

But so far anomaly’s been great for general fuckery

#

Unfortunately we had to leave off mid combat this weekend so I’ll really only be able to report how the occultist+puppeteer anomaly sitrep goes after we finish it

empty arrow
#

My impressions of the occultist with 1hp drones so far is honesty just that my players are really good at killing grunts. Fielded two occultists and an elite horde mode puppeteer putting out a combined 8 1hp targets a round and I think I’ve only had a single grunt actually get to take a turn. That’s mostly thanks to having 2 auxspammers, 1 heavy melee backswing enjoyer, then the last two using EPC on the occultists to kill the drones alongside the jam

#

They saw the overshield in the first round and immediately got super diligent about keeping the count down

placid glacier
ashen crown
#

Question: how would you rule scan-in-all-but-name effects on Anomalies Valk?

#

Would you rule they don’t work, only a true scan does?

#

Eg. Athena

vagrant grotto
#

Lemme pull it up

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Basically treat it as an actual scan gotcha

vagrant grotto
#

Like, you don’t have to give them Class and Template. But you might as well

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

So yeah I’d treat it like an actual scan for all purposes save Orator-likes

ashen crown
#

Bit of a shame tbh, would be fun to be like “no only a true scan works” but it’d probably be too mean

vagrant grotto
#

They brought Athena, they get rewarded, I don’t make the rules

ashen crown
#

Ye you right

empty arrow
placid glacier
#

uuh took inspiration from ||Boltzman in IGF||

vagrant grotto
#

Any Zealot feedback recently? Thinking about pushing an update tonight

muted blaze
#

So I realised something

vagrant grotto
#

So far I’ve heard a report or two that the new aura size is working fine

muted blaze
#

Regular bracing rules + new structure rules

vagrant grotto
#

Like nothing negative

vagrant grotto
#

I detect no perverse incentives, just “if you’re bracing a hit that structures you, you can just pick Dazed for free” or vice versa

ashen crown
ashen crown
#

By that I mean… 3 total lol, but one of them has 3 structure

vagrant grotto
#

All good then

#

I gotta run more of my support classes lol

muted blaze
#

Dunno if its a good or bad thing tbh

vagrant grotto
#

It’s fine™️

#

If someone tests them together I’ll gladly take feedback

muted blaze
#

Ya

vagrant grotto
#

Random thoughts: If there are any tweaks I make to Kai’s Rebakes I’m gonna call them “Valk-Proofed Kai Rebakes” or something

muted blaze
#

CRB NPCs exist -> There are issues with them -> Kai rebakes them -> Valk rebakes the rebakes

#

it never ends

vagrant grotto
#

Iterative design is crucial

#

My stuff will likely just be minor tweaks unworthy of a formal release though

muted blaze
#

Operator can choose to crit

vagrant grotto
#

I don’t know if that one’s really an issue

muted blaze
#

I've said my piece, I don't see it as an issue but I still carry my beliefs about it 😛

vagrant grotto
#

But I’ve already made Brisk, and have floated removal of Cluster Munitions, and the removal of Blip

#

Also @muted blaze regarding last playtest: The biggest impact Brisk had on Demolishers was that they could engage the objective much quicker

The 1st reinforcement Demolisher wouldn’t have been a threat to the objective if it only had 2 speed. It would’ve been an absolute joke struggling to keep up haha

#

I don’t think that was in question tbf

muted blaze
#

Lmao

vagrant grotto
#

But I remember talk about it being “eh a wash” because of the forced movement option available to the party

#

So I just wanted to take a moment to emphasize it, that’s all

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
#

This is the way 😌

muted blaze
#

Lancer 2.1e, 2.2e, 1.5e, 1.7e, Lancer next and One Lancer will release all simultaneously... None of them are affiliated with Massif Press

vagrant grotto
#

Never be satisfied with another designer’s tools

The best game is the one you like to play, the way you like to play it

muted blaze
# vagrant grotto But I remember talk about it being “eh a wash” because of the forced movement op...

Bit of a devils advocate, in terms of movement

We had me, the Kutuzov and Tortuga:

  • Kutozov: Couldn't move them due to heavy frame
  • Tort: Puppet and Osiris meant that the movement options were as good as the Demo's speed, meaning that it would have a net 0 movement if they walked back to where they were regardless. This both meant the movement was better because of the greater speed, but could be made back up again
  • Me: Grav gun: Not the most effective due to them having limitless AND great hull, blink grenades weren't the best as a limited system and they had veterancy engineering. Blink mines were GODLY but limited
#

Brisk allowed them to have more variety, making up their strongest weakness that allows them to be proactive on missions like they have been

#

I'm curious how a Brisk demolisher plays in a situation where base demolishers are already strong

#

Just want to clarify, everything I am saying here is observations. Not meant to be specifically speaking for or against your claims of if it's good or not

#

And Brisk I think is probably another one of those situations where it's strong because of what it's capable of doing NOT what it's actively doing

#

Being base 2 speed, a regular demolisher has an effective threat of 4 (move 2, threat 2). With brisk it's up to 5

#

I think... Yeah, I think that makes sense... I just had a thought

#

I think it's Acrobat lite

#

It does what slapping acrobat on an enemy does without fully fixing their weakness/problem

#

I think brisk has grown on me

#

It shows that its a good boost to allow slow enemies to be useful in situations that they're normally useless

#

But I wanna see how they work in situations where demolisher are already strong AND they have access to other movement actions

vagrant grotto
whole axle
#

Are Vulture's systems ("MAGPIE" Subroutines and Opportunistic Salvage) supposed to work without line of sight?

vagrant grotto
#

I omit writing line of sight because Massif already wrote down the rule so I don’t have to

whole axle
#

Ah, thank you!

vagrant grotto
# vagrant grotto Like we saw on the Bombard, it doesn’t do much in cases where they’re already st...

But yeah I like Brisk because 3 speed is still slow, but it facilitates reinforcements better and allows Demolisher/Pyro/Bombard to actually set up instead of requiring to be spawned right on top of the objective

Besides, ⅔ of those guys have a superheavy/ordnance so they’re still paying an effectiveness tax to move/boost to position. It just means that they can start properly playing next turn instead of in 2 turns lol

muted blaze
#

Pyros will probs get the biggest boost

#

But a pyro getting into range isn't as deadly as a demolisher getting i to range

#

Their effective threat goes from 9 to 11

vagrant grotto
#

I have run speed 2 pyros on a 22x17 holdout map. They spawned like 10 spaces away as the Ace flies from the holdout zone and still didn’t reach the zone after like, 2-3 rounds

#

They can barely climb on top of rocks

muted blaze
#

Huh, fair

placid glacier
vagrant grotto
# muted blaze Huh, fair

Actually it was 7-8 spaces as the Ace flies. This map, Pyro spawned on the metal ramp on the lower right hand side. Had to go around/over rocks, never got to the steps of the died right in front of the steps to the control zone

granite saddle
#

not on the zealot but I do have something to say actually

#

hold on, putting my thoughts into words

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

So I guess nevermind, but also I'd love to see someone test it and give their take on it.

vagrant grotto
#

Might be worth pairing with a Zealot buddy?

#

See how it affects Mesmerist when something is drawing a lot of aggro and eating its invis

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

I feel like the answer to this is gonna be “no” (which I respect) but I’ll ask anyway because I’d keep thinking about it otherwise:

To allow for more versatility, particularly for GMs who aren’t a fan of brisk, would you possibly consider making any PPG NPCs (like the Napalm) speed 2 to make opting into 3 speed more accessible?

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

You know I was trying to figure out it how to phrase it and that was the best I could do

vagrant grotto
#

And I don’t know how changing Napalm would make that more accessible

ashen crown
#

You right

#

Nevermind I think I didn’t need to ask that question

vagrant grotto
#

Brisk is my statement that I firmly believe every NPC that isn’t literally designed to be a Turret (like a DnD Roper) should have a Speed of at least 3

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

So yeah I guess my answer is “no I’m not changing Napalm’s speed to 2”

ashen crown
#

Yeah I thought so, I probably didn’t need to ask that

vagrant grotto
#

All good

#

Brisk was just a tongue in cheek way to deliver 3 speed while also signposting to players that “this mech you’re used to is customized”

ashen crown
#

Makes sense makes sense

#

I think my intent behind the question was “Personally I (and I assume a few other GMs) do enjoy the restriction of 2 speed, and since PPG does make it clear it’s averse to that would making some PPG NPCs Brisk Compatible make that kinda design more opt in than opt out?”

I realize that’s both way too much thought into it + against the design philosophy of the designer + other reasons I’m currently struggling to words, so I’m honestly against doing anything like that after thinking about it, but it’s what came to mind

vagrant grotto
#

Also also: if a mech is intended to “not move” then I think its kit should be actively designed around it. E.G. firebreak stays up until Pyro moves, or Demo only stuns if it swings the hammer without moving on its turn. Self immobilizes and stuff too

#

If you wanna make Napalm speed 2 then be my guest, I’m willing to bet it won’t change much

I can almost guarantee that Anchor will suffer to get into position, to say nothing of finding a place to stand under CRB occupied space rules

ashen crown
#

Ye I getcha

#

Sometimes I’m too in favor of baked in modularity in design lol

vagrant grotto
#

I’m not anyone’s dad, if they wanna change my stuff’s stats and void the warranty that’s fine by me

granite saddle
#

Also, lesser comment (just something to look out for) : I don't necessarily feel negatively about it, but the Mesmerist currently has no guaranteed way to gain Mirror images; every way it has to do that is an inherent gamble (which is a lot considering doge-tanking is already a gambling playstyle). At this point I'd just feel bad just making you add a third "start combat with a bit of [insert relevant survivability tool here], as a treat", but I'm this close to suggesting it. (this being "actually testing one instead of just looking at it")

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

It was also on a 22x17 holdout

granite saddle
#

yeah, that's the "actually having run one" factor I always miss out on.

vagrant grotto
#

Targets were a Chomolungma, Lancaster, Taraxacum, and Caliban for ref

#

Not a huge amount of attackers

#

I’ll await more data for now

#

I do have some layout space to add a line for “starts with a mirror image” so sure

granite saddle
granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Could also consider “make the mirror image on attack instead of on-hit” but yeah

#

There’s options

granite saddle
#

I considered "make it also happen on lock-on" but realized "hey wait this is a defender not a support" and then, also, "Hang on why would you ever bother attacking if lock-on did the job"; so yeah there are options. Just. Not this one.

vagrant grotto
#

I think I was clever tying it to tech attacks so Invade became a natural part of the rotation haha

#

Finally, an NPC designed around the existence of NPC Invade

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

What I’m saying is that even against high E-Defense targets the Mesmerist was pretty consistently getting Mirror Images

vagrant grotto
#

I don’t recall the SYS on the Lanny and Taraxacum but yes it scored hits

placid glacier
# vagrant grotto I’ll await more data for now

Maybe I can swap out the mirage I had planned for one of my encounters with a mesmerist-

Party isn't as attacker stacked as my previous campaign but

Pegasus
Arthur
Lannie
Tortlungma
Calendula

ashen crown
#

The issue with PPG is that there’s too many fun 1st party (Kai Rebaked) NPCs for me to still be excited to try to do a lot of testing with the PPG NPCs

vagrant grotto
#

Damn my stuff’s not exciting enough 😔 pack it up, we’ve lost /joke

#

But nah I get it

#

Goal of NPC stuff like this is to broaden the available Monster Manual for Lancer

#

Not everyone is gonna use the Aarokocra, nor the Zombie

#

To say nothing of the Flumph

ashen crown
placid glacier
#

something to say about lancer design that the basics are so fun on both sides of the screen (Everest and most core NPCs)

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

So like, legitimately if that’s the case, I hunger for feedback to pare things down

ashen crown
#

It's not that they don't feel approachable (the prism is a bit intimidating tho), it's just that they're- as you've stated yourself- experimental

#

So there's apprehension to use them without abandon. That, and I'm not so experienced as to have had the chance to use every NPC in the CRB yet, which I want to do before getting too funky

vagrant grotto
#

The Late Four (prism occultist torrent and vulture) deffo trended more complex… not super happy about that yeah. Other than that, Ghost was a struggle to constrain, and Knight’s Compelled Duel has had some moments of “too many words”….

placid glacier
#

idk I felt like vulture was approachable enough of "destroy one of your own wrecks to buff up an ally" when I plopped it into my encounters

granite saddle
#

honestly, none of them were ever that hard to understand (at least in broad strokes), nor even explain. I am 100% a biased source though, given I hang out in #rules-questions a lot and was here to see quite a lot of the more "complex" being made

vagrant grotto
#

But I suppose that the choices are relatively clear in context

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

(speaking as #1 leech lover and defender)

granite saddle
#

the only thing I think is really a "me" factor here is knowing to just say "it's like a size 2 character except it's other space is wayyy over there" for the prism. Everything else is already clear without more explaining to do.
I mean, Prism is still understandable like it is currently, it's just a lot of words for players to read in the middle of a fight so.

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah….

ashen crown
#

Less that it's complex and more that it's just intimidating to run tbh

#

To me

vagrant grotto
#

At least the gun and passive are simple (I hope)

ashen crown
#

But tbh most NPCs I've never ran before are intimidating

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

Hell Demolishers and Mirages are still kinda scary to consider putting onto a board, as are a good bit of Artillery

vagrant grotto
#

I still need to try Rebake Rainmakers….

ashen crown
#

The ones I ran suffered due to the map, from no one's fault but my own

granite saddle
vagrant grotto
#

Yup that’s the artillery shining through haha

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

Line of sight blocking terrain is Prism’s best friend

placid glacier
ashen crown
#

With a Swallowtail Player it's almost guaranteed

#

btw I'm gonna run a Surgekiller Elite Cataphract soon, and just as a pre-combat observation, I am a tad worried the Heat from Surgekiller is a bit too low to be threatening. I wouldn't take this as serious feedback yet, but it is an observation I will be running combat with. I'll let y'all know how it goes tho

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

That's why I put it on the Cataphract over the archer- still I'm just a tad concerned

vagrant grotto
#

Codespike Rapier was “overtuned” from one report at T3 with 3 Heat; granted, it’s at-will, but I think I’ve learned from Recharge Heat shenanigans that 3 Heat is actually a LOT and 2 Heat is nothing to sneeze at

#

At least NPC side I suppose

#

But they have higher heat caps anyway…

#

Anyway, I look forward to the after action report

ashen crown
#

Tru tru, but Surgekiller is also gated behind a crit and the target having a Core Point, plus it's an optional from a template rather than a class base feature

#

It's less "is 2 heat dangerous?" and more "is 2 heat worth it?"

vagrant grotto
#

Like “worth an optional”, got it

ashen crown
#

Yeah exactly- it's competing with optionals like Splinter round, and Heat is situationally dangerous- even on the player side. Compared to "more damage now and always."

vagrant grotto
#

We’ll see if it’s just the right amount of pressure

#

Worst case: it’s free heat in a strapped action economy

ashen crown
#

If it's only triggerable if the target has a core power, imo it should raise enough alarm to make using the core power earlier than one would want enticing. Crit Gating it is a good idea for this kinda mechanic regardless, it should be something your at risk of suffering, not constantly in danger of

#

But I look forward to it- best case scenario, the psychological impact is the scariest part of it

vagrant grotto
#

As a player I can confirm that getting psyched out is fucking real

#

“The fuck are we gonna do against these three giant crocodile skeletons that grabbed our low-athletics Alchemist”

#

That one was an irritating little puzzle

ashen crown
#

I can see Surgekiller being terrifying on something like a Mesmerist if it was stronger tho, hence where the balancing act becomes difficult

#

Like Deadly on a CRB Ronin

#

Unlike deadly however, all players have the ability to become immune to it- for a price

granite saddle
#

I think NuCavs deserve to eat shit if they let the Mesmerist get close enough for that.

vagrant grotto
#

They’ll live

#

There are times that I worry I’ve balanced my shit a little too much around my structure and stress rules, but then I remind myself that the CRB rules are swingy as shit and feel correct in my resolve

#

This reads a lil accusatory

#

Yazzy was just joking about her players deciding not to read anyway

granite saddle
#

working on making the joke come across more as we speak, soz

ashen crown
#

Also as the Rebakes have shown sometimes the CRB design philosophy is wrong

vagrant grotto
#

Oh of course

granite saddle
#

well if that was already her joke, can't make it again in response.
Down it goes.

vagrant grotto
#

And legitimately I do think CRB structure/stress is the real killer of PCs anyway

ashen crown
#

Like at most, maybe Heat Caps are different. Apart from that Structuring is still scary, and HP is still a marker of how close you are to death so not like those values will change much anyway- especially for NPCs since structure values are variable amongst them

#

And heat caps in CRB feel fairly arbitrary anyway- what is an Aegis doing with a 10 Heat cap?

vagrant grotto
# granite saddle huh, didn't get that.

To explain the joke:

  • the shared image is the last in a series
  • the first two are people getting exasperated at each other realizing that the first person’s shit situation is actually not as bad the second person’s shit situation
  • to which the last is surprised that the first two had that thing at all
granite saddle
#

yeah no I'm supposed to get that meme, I guess I'm just tired tonight

#

it has been a fairly long day actually

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

I don't think any of the CRB Aegis optionals gave it heat

vagrant grotto
#

Defense net should have a 2 heat upkeep, that’s going in the Valk Proof

granite saddle
ashen crown
#

If an NPC doesn't have any Self Heat features they don't deserve more than a 6 Heat Cap imo

vagrant grotto
#

Don’t worry Yazzy, I see your meme and appreciate you

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
#

actually no you're defo right on it

#

We would've never managed that without aux spam

vagrant grotto
granite saddle
granite saddle
placid glacier
vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
#

I don’t think I’d touch the rebake defense net at the moment, so I’ll go back on my previous statement

granite saddle
muted blaze
#

Decided for L:EC nexus defence I've thrown holdout rules into it :P

vagrant grotto
#

Hell yeah! The one where it auto-scores and enemies run up to stop the auto-score?

muted blaze
#

So the objective is, every character gets a full action blow up the objective

#

4 and its gone

#

Players defend it

#

My rules change is, increase round count from 6 to 8. Add 2 objectives which is qa increase the counter

#

So it can be done in 3 rounds... which feels too quick maybe...

vagrant grotto
#

For the enemies?

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

It may be a lil much

muted blaze
#

Mb

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

Ah ah ok

muted blaze
#

3 objectives, 10 rounds?

#

Maybe? For 5 players

vagrant grotto
#

10 rounds? Of a holdout-like sitrep?

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

Not rounds, clock size

vagrant grotto
#

Oh

muted blaze
#

Post session long combat brain rn

vagrant grotto
#

Okay yeah this could work

muted blaze
#

Mmm

vagrant grotto
#

I guess my question is “do you actually want to do objective cranking” since you weren’t very enthused about it before for holdout

muted blaze
#

That's very true

#

Damn thats crazy

#

Actually yeah

vagrant grotto
#

What’s the fiction

muted blaze
#

I can do the suggestion I made lmao

muted blaze
vagrant grotto
#

“Why not do this cool thing you suggested”

#

And that sounds easy

#

12 segment clock, 4 drill batteries/legs/ I don’t know, dealer’s choice, each tick a point each round

#

Enemies can shut em down, players need to keep em on/turn em back on

vagrant grotto
#

Update to v1.6.0 live now!

itch.io
Update to 1.6.0!

1.6.0 Added HTML formatting for all Classes, Templates, and Features in the LCP! This should improve readability of the LCP data. POTENTIALLY BREAKING CHANGE : The Veteran [PPG] template has been remo...

#

excited for folks to see the new HTML formatting in their browser/vtt of choice

ashen crown
#

NOOO, NOT THE FANATICAL CHARGE BOOST NERF!

#

MY LOW G SITREPS!

vagrant grotto
#

wait what

#

ah hell

#

I won't tell if you won't

ashen crown
#

My reaction was heavily exaggerated for comedic sakes but this does genuinely change the entire setup of my next 2 combats if I implement the update now

#

Which is a shame because I want those other changes

vagrant grotto
#

like I said: I won't tell if you won't

ashen crown
#

Also thank you for the Heliocide change lol

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

all rules are arbitrary

#

I'm simply presenting an optional configuration

ashen crown
#

I mean I assume you made this boost change specifically to mitigate those kinds of shennanigans

#

And it would be against most of my principles if I defied that

placid glacier
#

wait what is the zero g shennanigan?

vagrant grotto
#

it's a wording thing

ashen crown
placid glacier
#

I assumed so

vagrant grotto
#

folks see Boost, they expect BOOST, not "Boost but +2 speed"

placid glacier
ashen crown
#

I assume that's the intent?

#

I've been working with that assumption this whole time

vagrant grotto
#

yes move in any direction

placid glacier
#

oh right yeah I was about to ask because I wanted to know for something but where are those old "quick action holdout objective" rules I've seen before?

vagrant grotto
#

idk, there was enough "specialness" that "boost" didn't feel right to use anymore

placid glacier
#

I wanted to use them for the optional "Hey take and hold this thing for a core battery" ala meld from xcom thing I was gonna use for this campaign

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

This does mean if an ally is in control of a grapple they can- wait can't take reactions nevermind

vagrant grotto
#

Set a Clock, make 3-4 objects, interact with them until clock is full

#

use the "Quick Action (and optional Protocol) if adjacent if uncontested, Quick Action Contested Check if contested"

#

the one more thing that makes it "holdout" is that all the objects are clustered relatively close together instead of spread out

#

but you can move em around how you see fit

ashen crown
#

I'm experimenting with making the Gauntlet holdout just one big object and if I were running a Holdout I'd do the same

#

Alternatively you can shrink the objective area and just make that the object in question that needs to be interacted with (requiring being fully or partially, your choice, in the area to interact with it), as I believe Al has suggested

placid glacier
#

Ye ye that was the plan

Just have 1-2 size one objects

One closer to player spawn and one closer to the end of the map (if only one- it'll always be this far one I place down) and have it so that after like. 3-4 turns the object gets removed from play. If a player gets adjacent to it and spends a quick action they get a core battery from it

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Instead of "move" you could say "fly," adding the standard "fall at the end of the movement" thing

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Yeah that occurred to me just now

#

What if you removed the "fall at the end of movement" part of the Zealots flight and just said "all characters that fly in this fashion fall at the end of their movement"?

vagrant grotto
#

Maybe!

ashen crown
#

Condensing the falling to all characters rather than stating it twice

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll consider if it’s necessary after some testing

ashen crown
#

I will warn you, I was going to use the flight for evil to make a cataphract move 10 spaces across the map without dealing with any obstacles. At tier 1

#

So uh

#

The flight may not be the best idea

#

It was also gonna be used to get a spite on top of a size 3 object

#

A non-brisk one specifically

vagrant grotto
#

Sounds like an excellent striker tool

ashen crown
#

Fair, but Lancer's movement economy is pretty, uh, it's pretty wack

vagrant grotto
#

Valid

ashen crown
#

Plus it's more the "ignoring the map" part that's more concerning than the 10 spaces

#

Tools that ignore the map like Seeking and Flight are rare and valuable for a reason

#

Ok maybe not rare but Valuable yes

ashen crown
#

Hey Valk is this where you got the PPG cover art?

image0.jpg
vagrant grotto
#

Should be credited

#

Not surprised that someone would use that art too for something else

ashen crown
#

Neat. Idk I just saw it and immediately went tunnel vision- coulda just checked the art credits lol

vagrant grotto
#

Picked it up from a popular scifi/fantasy artist back when I was on my free trial of Shutterstock for my first adventure

muted blaze
#

Screw it

#

I'm adding a brisk pyro

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

LCP For time stop looks a bit weird formatting wise in foundry
It's an Anomaly trait, it's a feature

image.png
#

Just reading Habringer and thinking of putting it on a mecht that orients around dying

#

Like L:EC Morningstar or vet operator with parting gift

#

How does trash to treasure interact with passive effects?

#

Such as dataveil, Electro nanite cloud, Hornets hover, etc

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Ok neat

#

I was assuming it would be "Expend a charge to use the passive until the start of its next turn" or somethingg

vagrant grotto
#

this may still be wishy-washy for Dataveil pruposes but yeah

ashen crown
muted blaze
#

It's not that many

vagrant grotto
#

the perpetual struggle of keeping things on one page

muted blaze
#

Damn, an Ultra vulture would be funny

#

Sprinting about and just looting shit from tons of corpses

vagrant grotto
#

<p>A character ends their turn.</p>

#

that's literally what I have

#

yes, I wrapped it in <p> tags, but IMO that shouldn't cause the above

ashen crown
#

Foundry’s gotten really weird with line breaks since I updated to V12, it doesn’t look like anything you can control Valk

vagrant grotto
#

lemme check with and without

muted blaze
#

Huh yeah. it's fine in comp con

#

Wild

vagrant grotto
#

time for a bug report lol

muted blaze
#

Sounds like a whole load of not a your LCP problem

vagrant grotto
#

Al, if you have the screenshots, feel free to report it. Otherwise I will

ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

they've been using <p> tags too, that's why I adopted them

#

okay yeah it's purely because of <p> tags; editing the item in Foundry directly auto-wraps it in <p> tags and causes the same issue

muted blaze
#

I'm trying to find any examples in CRB content

#

So it is specifically when it's made a paragraph in HTML it's a problem?

vagrant grotto
#

yes

#

I'm gonna draft a report no worries

muted blaze
#

Coolio

vagrant grotto
muted blaze
#

Redoing my combats

#

Last combat I had 2 anomalies which were the same

#

Players have had a taste... Time for 5

vagrant grotto
#

good luck have batman

muted blaze
#

Dust and echoes... I Really want to use it

#

But there are many corpses and my players don't have any anti-intangible tech

image.png
#

Curious if I should make the souls not intangible for this combat

vagrant grotto
#

was not expecting folks to auto-populate the battlefield with wrecks sweating

muted blaze
#

Yeah

#

WEll, these were from the last combat

vagrant grotto
#

ah

muted blaze
#

Same battlefield

#

There's also puppeteers being fielded

vagrant grotto
#

yeah I'd drop the Intangible, or make it immune to normal damage but able to be force-moved maybe

muted blaze
#

Oh sounds good

ashen crown
#

No

#

No mercy

#

Do it

#

Dust and Echoes As Is

muted blaze
#

No

#

This combat already looks very overtuned

#

As it should be

ashen crown
#

Fair

vagrant grotto
#

yeah no Dust and Echoes is looking like a candidate for some modifications

muted blaze
#

It was inspired by Hades right?

vagrant grotto
#

as soon as there's enough wrecks now there's a whole nasty incentive to kill every wreck

#

and yes, so like, the obvious change is to let the soul be shootable

ashen crown
#

What if “intangible til the start/end of their next turn?”

That way the players need to do emergency precautions to destroy or move the closest wrecks, but after that they kill the soul

vagrant grotto
#

run it without intangible and lemme know how it goes

muted blaze
#

Aye aye

vagrant grotto
#

if it's toothless without intangible, that's good info

ashen crown
#

Without intangible the motive sounds like it would go from “shoot the wrecks” to “shoot the ghost” which could be good but I like features that make wrecks dangerous

vagrant grotto
#

agreed; Siege Spec enjoyers still get to enjoy a little treat with deterministic damage though

#

but yeah, another thing I'd think about is "it's speed is 2" or something

muted blaze
#

Immune to damage however means that controllers with movement shenanigans stay winning

#

And pegasus's can just pop them

#

Making it "reduce all damage to 0" also could work, potentially allowing paracausal weapons to work

granite saddle
#

To me the "only intangible until eot" sounds the best out of all the currently proposed ones

#

Do with that what you will

vagrant grotto
#

noted noted

muted blaze
#

Made a napalm

Faith_Napalm.png
vagrant grotto
#

Faith Napalm?

muted blaze
#

Yee

#

Decided to go through with the salamander

vagrant grotto
#

it looks good, good fit

#

I'm gonna update my personal placeholders...

vagrant grotto
#

Been thinking about when I wanna call PPG “done for good”

Probably not for a while still, but I don’t want to work on it for forever. Kinda like how Kai eventually stopped work on Suldan

#

My original thought was “once the designs stabilize” but like, I just recently reworked Hatchet and made significant base kit changes to Mesmerist and Zealot, all of which were part of the Core 8

#

It’ll never truly be done/perfect I suppose

muted blaze
#

It has been fluctuating a decent amount tbf

vagrant grotto
#

I’ll probably just keep up with it until I decide I’m tired with it

ashen crown
#

I was gonna say yeah

#

Sometimes people are more formal about their workflow and sometimes folks aren’t, and which works best for you is gonna vary

#

Being more formal is helpful if you’re worried about being a perfectionist and not being able to “let go” so to speak, but if you’re having fun and can stop yourself to move on pretty easily then no harm in being less formal

#

Just as example

rare jay
#

As many folks have said, perfect is the enemy of good, and done is better than perfect

vagrant grotto
#

Exactly

#

I’ve said it a billion times myself

rare jay
#

It’s about being satisfied with what you’ve learned from this project to take into the next one

granite saddle
#

PPG rebake when

vagrant grotto
#

I am actively revising it

#

I know, joke

granite saddle
#

hell, maybe by the time this is done I'll have enough experience to put my own spin on things, who knows ?
For as much as I enjoy making shit, Numbers are Scary; at least for now.

ashen crown
#

Which do you think would combo better with a Barricade on a Napalm: Incendiary-Grenade or Long-Burn Catalyst? I'm treating immunity to difficult terrain as immunity to the effects of these traits so that's where the combo comes in

#

The Barricade is in a control but if that combat goes fine I'll keep them as reinforcements for a gauntlet

#

The first one I deploy will be untemplated but the second will be a veteran

#

The Grenades could just be thrown right onto the Barricade in case it gets swarmed but they take actions on a superheavy user- meanwhile Long-Burn is better when used selflishly by the Napalm, plus it can be re-deployed in case allies are harmed too much by it (since the Barricade is the only one immune to both effects)

#

But the Limited 2 on the grenades seems like something worth testing since anything limited on a non-ultra NPC that isn't limited 1 I'm very skeptical of (vulture excluded since that's part of it's whole gimmick)

empty arrow
#

From my experience of running the napalm for the first three turns of a combat, long burn catalyst ended up being an added bit of damage and less of an area denial tool. That has a lot to do with my players’ counterplay to artillery being running them down, and so any attack the napalm makes on them will be on spaces those players will then put behind them. Incendiary grenade by contrast preemptively puts down a big chunk of difficult terrain

#

If the barricade’s forcing the players to take a particular path around the cover, then you’ll get more mileage out of the grenade’s difficult terrain that’s not as wide but covers 2-3x as much movement through it

#

Otherwise, yeah. Long burn translating to immediate damage often makes it more compelling to use as such rather than asking players to avoid said damage

ashen crown
#

Duly noted

#

The Grenades sound more interesting in which case

vagrant grotto
# ashen crown Duly noted

I haven’t used Long Burn properly but I believe its best use case is when used on ground that will be tread a lot. Aka Holdout Zone points. it’ll be weak on Escortraction and Recon, mid on Control, and probably get most use on Gauntlet and Holdout

#

I deployed a Napalm once on a Holdout, considered an older version of Long Burn (it was nutty), and decided against it because it would’ve been a persistent almost-blast-2 on the holdout zone with little solution to clear it

#

On Escortraction, Recon, and Control, the grenades should be more useful in denying access IMO

#

If Extraction allowed for an early Long Burn, it may be alright there? Especially since Napalm is slow and will spawn near the edges

empty arrow
vagrant grotto
#

“It seemed like a good idea at the time”

#

They cover different areas at different ranges so I gave them different damage profiles

#

That and I haven’t received much feedback on the grenades (or drone, for that matter) yet

empty arrow
#

My feedback is that it’s map reliant, which you already know

#

What’s useless on one sitrep is useless on another. Hard to find a good damage code with that

vagrant grotto
#

Did you mean “useless” and “useful”?

#

But yeah ideally I balance around the worst case scenario

empty arrow
#

Yes I am typing this from my bed

vagrant grotto
#

For the players I mean

empty arrow
#

Naturally

vagrant grotto
#

Like when the NPC is in their lane and moisturizing how much of a menace are they

empty arrow
#

I will say that while the grenades seem like pretty compelling area denial, long burn has struck me as having a kind of boring floor. My players deathballed hard enough that no enemy got within 8 spaces of the objective, so long burn just became “your superheavy does an extra ~30% damage on recharge 6”

muted blaze
#

The map I'm throwingg my Napalm into is an L:EC breach and clear with 3 lanes each about 5 wide

#

I have long burn because I wanna lob bombs over and block whole alleyway

#

Wait it's in low gravity so they can just boost over it

empty arrow
#

Long burn is great if its targets are already on a static objective and the fire ends up splitting it in half, but it’s not great when thrown down pre-emptively to block a corridor. Because you have to fire a superheavy with heat 4, it’s underwhelming to shoot at a bunch of free spaces when you could just place it underneath a target you’re also attacking normally with that weapon. Doing that though means that it ends up behind them when they take their next move, assuming they have no need to backtrack

#

Giving them that need to backtrack might be really fun though, love the idea of realizing the fire matters like 4 rounds later

ashen crown
ashen crown
vagrant grotto
#

I think I also didn’t have the room to add Heat to the grenades

#

Nvm I definitely have space

#

But yeah it’s not the same Burn profile because one is Free Action Burn and the other is Quick Action Burn

#

LBC has been a hassle to try to get right, because while it is evocative and interesting (given all the testing and feedback it’s gotten) it’s either middling in execution or far too strong

#

There’s also the perpetual issue of “where is the Napalm finding these Quick Actions” for the QA systems

#

Which is making me consider upgrading them to Full Action Worthy optionals

#

Give extra range to the grenades, make em limited 1, and let em deploy in 2 places for one Full Action

Let the Nades fulfill the LBC fantasy and change LBC to something else

#

Something like a trait for “targets affected by Adhesive Gel have +1 difficulty on Engineering Checks and Saves” or just Impaired

#

“Targets affected by adhesive gel get difficulty on Engineering Checks and can’t clear heat except by overheating”

ashen crown
ashen crown
ashen crown
ashen crown
#

Just makes the most sense imo

#

In case it doesn’t stick on Long Burn

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Ye

#

If you want an area of “make burn worse”, having it be on a drone that can be moved but is limited and can be destroyed makes the most sense to me, especially if destroying it wrong equals more burn

vagrant grotto
ashen crown
#

Plus I can see tracking the difficulty coming from the Drone rather than the Adhesive Gel being maybe easier, especially when it comes to Burn not from the Napalm

#

That’s very subjective however

empty arrow
placid glacier
#

I'm enabling my players for super battle bus shenanigans so I was thinking about the bombard again which got me thinking about the napalm again... tempting especially for the wallflower campaign making it very flavorful as well

vagrant grotto
#

Aight something I’ve been thinking about is how most melee and cqb strikers in the core book tend to lean into a Vanguard, take the Objective role

#

This is mostly only because their circle of threat is small, meaning the best counterplay to their damage is to walk away from them

#

This effectively encourages folks to GTFO the objective and reposition or eat mundo damage (in theory)

#

So now I’m thinking about how the basic Ronin just passively does this by being a beatstick (same as Berserker, though berserker super emphasizes the “get back” due to aggression)

#

So now, like any sane, rational person, I asked myself “how can I do Ronin, but unnecessarily complicated with more “implied threat” to encourage leaving an area?”

#

And it got me thinking about an old idea I had for a Ronin rework that had it have to sheath the sword to get extra attack benefit

#

You know the guy I’m thinking about lol

#

Before, I was thinking “oh what if I use the loading tag” but I think that’s too cute now

#

Now I think it’s gotta be something like “quick action prime, then an Ordnance ability that expends the prime”

ashen crown
#

My first thought was “Lock On Consumer” tbh

#

Yours may ve better

vagrant grotto
#

The goal is to project threat and encourage enemies to GTFO

ashen crown
#

The basic concept reminds me ever so slightly of the IGF Slinger and Ring the Bell

#

But this sounds more Lightning Generator coded to a degree

vagrant grotto
#

because while Zerk and Breacher and Ronin all are good at passively projecting threat at all times, they also wind up encouraging the opponent to not move because of their spicy overwatches

#

Which is working against a Vanguard’s goal of “just get them off the damn point”

#

Sure you may damage them, but they’re PCs, you really think you’re gonna kill em before they get you?

#

So now I’m thinking about making an Unlucky 13th NPC, an actual Striker’s striker

vagrant grotto
# 
Defensive Sheath
System, Quick Action
The Bodyguard sheaths its weapon and assumes a defensive stance, becoming Slowed until it unsheathes its weapon and gaining Overshield 2/4/6. If the Bodyguard uses a reaction, its weapon unsheathes.

Kinetic Saber
Heavy Melee, +2/+4/+6
[Threat 2][5/7/9 Kinetic]
If the Bodyguard starts its turn with its weapon sheathed, as a protocol, it may unsheath its weapon and immediately use a quick action to Skirmish. If it does so, the attack deals double damage (not including bonus damage) and gains AP.

Deft Parry
Trait, Reaction
Trigger: A melee or ranged attack hits the Bodyguard while its weapon is sheathed.
Effect: The Bodyguard unsheathes its weapon to deflect the blow, gaining Resistance to all damage, Heat, and Burn from the triggering attack.
muted blaze
#

I dont like the bodyguard as a name just because of the bastions ability

#

Skirmisher skirmisher and all that

vagrant grotto
inland pilot
#

I do think Kinetic Saber is a bit unintuitive though with the whole "as a protocol spend a quick action" thing

#

I understand why its like that but feel there could be a more elegant solution thats easier to pick up/read

vagrant grotto
vagrant grotto
inland pilot
#

roles are fake in the end which is why I don't stress too overly about them any more lmao

vagrant grotto
#

Yeah I just hold onto the role until I have something cohesive/coherent

ashen crown
#

I mean if it's a Ronin alt you literally could just call it Samurai lol

inland pilot
#

It's very much a case of "it makes it easy for people to eyeball a composition/mech and get what they should be doing"

ancient solar
#

This will still just overwatch you in the face if you move away, though. Right?

vagrant grotto
inland pilot
vagrant grotto
inland pilot
#

You trigger Overwatch, but it doesn't get the double-damage slash

vagrant grotto
#

Berserker can even get a lucky crit on you and fuck you up