Thops is heavily implied to have been around since the shattering
#Elden Ring (DLC hype room)
stone cove
when you can say "Centuries" or "a milenia"
and like... that works with the state of decay and the themes of stagnation in the world
old brook
Thops is living well ||up until a point||
stone cove
(STagnation is a big, big theme in the game in general)
proven cloak
I'd believe 5000 years for the whole setting, which is what I've heard
glossy delta
Yeah tbh the shattering feels like it happened like
20 years ago to me
proven cloak
^
grave plinth
Shattering feels a little under a century to me
proven cloak
I could see a few decades where Marika's not around before the war breaks out in earnest
grave plinth
Given how damaged all the settlements are
stone cove
Like it does seem the shattering was a long war
and i can buy the recovery etc taking time by how collapsed things are
old brook
if it's only been 20 years Caelid is screwed
stone cove
but there are so many other details that dont make sense if it's just 20 years
like... the ash in leyndell already.
Whjich is still one of the big ??? what happen ??? things the base game shows you
old brook
I do wonder why the Scadutree is still seemingly leaking sap n such when the Erdtree went dry
warped quest
i always figired the ash was because your just burning the most massive tree ever
proven cloak
might be leaking too much sap
stone cove
No, the ash is already there.
when you first get to Leyndell
there's already ash piles all over the place
proven cloak
its like both trees are out of balance, the Erdtree is dry, the Shadutree bleeds too much
the fragments say theres a belief it'll one day crumble from within, and scatter shards across the land
old brook
'
A talisman depicting Godfrey, first Elden lord, receiving the precious sap. Increases poise after using a flask of tears. The Lord accepted the sap stoically, without any sign of wavering. No wonder Lord of the Erdtree casts a long shadow over the lands.
'
the hell does that mean, game
stone cove
also who the hell is ever using that talisman?
it's such a bizzarely specific effect
It doesnt even last long
old brook
if it lasted a while maybe yeah
stone cove
As like, an amaeuter game designer
kind garden
thing worth noting is that "after" is basically a lie
stone cove
i'm always fascianted by stuff like this
kind garden
it makes your sip animation hyper armored
proven cloak
'
A talisman depicting Godfrey, first Elden lord, receiving the precious sap. In...
clearly its an explanation for why ||Radahn doesnt talk or say or do anything in his fight||
stone cove
When Talisman slots are some of the most compeditive and desired slots in the game
what makefs this worht while?
proven cloak
"stoically without wavering" is a funny line
kind garden
when you drink ye flask, that shit is now uninterruptible
why you would want this, I could not tell you
old brook
it does imply others do it otherwise
proven cloak
Romina's did the same thing
Oh, she held the bud in "Speechless Silence"? I bet
old brook
everyone else cries when they get the sap
kind garden
it kinda makes me think the sap is like
really brutal on your body somehow? when you receive it? but like... fucking when
who
what is the occasion of Receiving The Sap
old brook
It makes me think it's why all the Knight type folks are.. like that
implied to be utterly bizarre murderlords
Leal Hounds of the Golden Order
grave plinth
Twitter
old brook
will never get over Messmer's Sad Room
kind garden
basically canon
atomic marsh
This is the ultimate family of girlfailures
grave plinth
Twitter
atomic marsh
these women are just the most divorced things on the planet
old brook
It is.. so strange, that Wings make Golden Order types fine with the snake. That's so specific, guys.
atomic marsh
I love the fact that people have just assumed that Radagon is just
perpetually shirtless
kind garden
allergic to shirts
messmer is a medical student
self-loathing wreck pushed into his current trajectory by parents
it tracks.
atomic marsh
Messmer jealous of Leonard is incredibly funny
glossy stag
will never get over Messmer's Sad Room
?
kind garden
Messmer has a dark room to go mope in
old brook
It's just the name of the Boss Room
And the castle having that much real estate devoted to brooding
atomic marsh
||Man Messmer has so much build up for not really doing anything for the main plot of the DLC really||
covert schooner
Yeah the shattering happened a long time ago but
A lot of stuff after the shattering itself is relatively recent
Like Leyndell fell into disrepair not that long ago
Also for what it’s worth I keep seeing people say Miquella never like grew up mentally either but
Tbh I don’t know if there’s really evidence for that
I think he just had a child’s body
ALSO
do y’all think consort has specifically romantic implications? ||it’d be a lot of incest if so and I’m not sure how much of that is fromsofts vibe lol||
kind garden
I'm gonna be honest, while consort doesn't necessarily have romantic implications so much as it does those of marriage to royalty, I do not think From Software or Miyazonky give a fuck about incest
atomic marsh
Miyazonky????
kind garden
It's a game that's very VERY much about royals doing royal things and that often means "each other"
covert schooner
I think maybe the demigods are also like
More Greek in nature
In the sense that it’s not really a huge deal for them
atomic marsh
Yes that's also part of the vibe
covert schooner
It is really interesting that you can get married to Ranni as a women when they went out of their way to make the marriage in ds3 straight
atomic marsh
I think that's probably just them realizing how clunky that was and also Elden Ring having much more to do with characters that aren't NPCs in full-face helmets you kinda can't do that anymore
covert schooner
thats fair
i do think it's cool and semi-intentional
like as a more progressive move
atomic marsh
We do not know the exact mechanics of gods giving birth in Elden Ring, but it seems to at least partially be removed from just "Male Organs and Female Organs Do That"
obtuse halo
There’s a fair bit of evidence that almost nobody has sex or gives birth
With the Erdtree being an intermediary
atomic marsh
Radagon fucks we know that at least.
old brook
I fully believe that and yet also- yeah
for whatever reason Marika and Radagon are the exception that prove the rule
atomic marsh
I think it's funnier if Marika doesn't but Radagon did.
obtuse halo
The turtle neck meat talks about increasing virility and that just not really being a thing people care about anymore
covert schooner
yeah sorry, I guess what i mean is moreso that I think elden ring is noticeably more queer than other games and i don't think that's necessarily coincidence
atomic marsh
Oh yeah
covert schooner
other games by fromsoft i mean
atomic marsh
I mean hey changing times.
old brook
Before earlier lore I firmly believed Marika was so repressed she generated Radagon specifically because of her crush on the Witch Queen of Caria
covert schooner
yeah is a good thing
atomic marsh
Also! Bonus, it's easier to dev.
covert schooner
just interesting
kind garden
The turtle neck meat talks about increasing virility and that just not really be...
??? where
old brook
'CLEARLY, THE ONLY SOLUTION, IS THAT WE GET MARRIED'
obtuse halo
One of the few people we know of who seems to have sexual interest in anything is…seluvis
atomic marsh
And that's why we kill him.
kind garden
Turtle Neck Meat
Material used for crafting items.
Considered an especially nutritious ingredient In the south of the Lands Between.
Pickled Turtle Neck
Craftable item.
Temporarily boosts stamina recovery.
The nutrients churn through the body,
practically boiling out endless power.```
Well-Pickled Turtle Neck
```Turtle neck meat that has been thoroughly pickled in a bitter
solution.
Temporarily grants large boost to stamina recovery speed.
The effects of the forager brood's pickled delights are enhanced by
the fermentation, or rotting, of the ingredients. Though this
results in a pungent odor, some come to find the aroma
irresistible.```found it, it's from pre-release only
obtuse halo
Okay cool I thought I was just losing my mind there
obtuse halo
could be erdtree births though
covert schooner
maybe but
looks over
anyway tbh i uh
obtuse halo
or just stuff outside the erdtree; the demihumans still seem to give birth
covert schooner
kinda assume the demigods were having actual sex textually tbh
obtuse halo
Melina has some musings on Boc
covert schooner
like, it;s not the content of the game
atomic marsh
Those fuckers did it again
covert schooner
but i don't think theres a lot saying they dont
obtuse halo
Mohg's remembrance also still talks about sharing Miquella's "Bloody Bedchamber"
obtuse halo
which is non-explicit but the implications are still sorta there
covert schooner
although we now know it was almost certainly consensual
kind garden
Miquella the Tickla
obtuse halo
||Mastermind video here||
covert schooner
NO
kind garden
it's too late
covert schooner
I do think that video is at least a good representation of
if not necessarily his motives
miquellas general vibes
kind garden
Imagine becoming a god then instantly meeting some asshole who can dodge roll 800 attacks in a row
obtuse halo
We really did get zero explanation for the promo shot of Miquella riding Torrent, didn't we
atomic marsh
Yup!
covert schooner
Its really interesting that fromsoft has kinda shifted over the years less from "putting the dying and long gone from glory divnities from their misery" and more to "you are genuinely radhaan's equal in combat"
obtuse halo
kind garden
wait, no, there really is no sensible explanation for Miquella riding Torrent
kind garden
this shit makes no sense at all
atomic marsh
IT DOES
covert schooner
we see horned horses in the storehouse
kind garden
Melina
kind garden
⭐ You Tried
covert schooner
||torrent is a creature from the lands between that Miquella divested himself of at some point. beyond that. idk||
covert schooner
tbh its one of things where im like
yeah i kinda think this works as one of the things thats only implied
obtuse halo
Torrent's former master is a big questionmark in the lore to be fair, so I guess there's no reason it couldn't be miquella
covert schooner
the promotional material suggests it
obtuse halo
other than that Ranni knew them, which again, does not particularly dismiss miquella
covert schooner
as does torrent being a spirit of a horned animal
which directly makes torrent from the land of shadow
without doubt
covert schooner
less directly stated but
very likely
||at the very least she came here when she died sometime before the game||
||since it;s the land of the dead and shes dead||
obtuse halo
She's ||burned and bodiless, which is clearly distinct from dead||
covert schooner
i think its bably mostly logistics that shes not in the dlc
obtuse halo
I certainly think so. The fact that she can manifest at-will from thin air and even join you in battle against Morgott strongly suggests she is not, in fact, completely dead.
obtuse halo
Unless you mean after being kindling, in which case it seems like she might be proper dead
😛
covert schooner
bare minimum some kind of ghost
but
||i think it's me likely she's something like ranni, whose body is dead but soul goes on||
idk why i spoilered that
thats base game stuff
whatever
dusty kraken
I do find it fun (And sad) how || Like 90% of the people in Elden Ring behind the various big shitshow events seem to be entirely trying to do the right thing but don't know what it is or how to achieve it without hurting those about them.||
obtuse halo
the other thing about torrent's former master is Ranni gives you the spirit calling bell and spirit ashes also owned by the same person, which is a trio of "lone" wolves
obtuse halo
and here's the statue from Malekith's boss room
covert schooner
without very badly hurting people
obtuse halo
I have no idea who this is!
obtuse halo
Maybe!
dusty kraken
Oh yeah but even by that metric || This is very much the most 'Everyone deeply cares and is acting on that care and empathy to fuck things up' they've had so far imo. There's a rather lack of 'He's just an asshole' major characters outside of like...the Ever-Knowing Dumbass and the Dung Eater.||
covert schooner
oh absolutely
it's Gwyn x 1000
which si good because gwyn is the most interesting villain in dark souls
atomic marsh
Even Gideon Offnir deeply cares and acts on his empathy for half his storyline.
covert schooner
Miyazaki like
clearly loves this archetype
of well meaning people corrupted by power
atomic marsh
The Dung-Eater just sucks though
absolutely love that for him
absolutely nothing redeemable.
covert schooner
who end up abusing their positions for their own goals
i think dung eater isn't necessarily redeemable at all but is like
obtuse halo
Even Gideon Ofnir is a completely believable antagonist with clear motives (up until the end anyway - he seems deeply shaken in that last encounter and it's not totally clear why)
obtuse halo
There are reasonable theories but nothing textual
dusty kraken
I'll admit, I'm not 100% sure on Gideon caring. He can act caring but he comes across as more a glib tongued user of people than someone who genuinely cares.
covert schooner
yeah
atomic marsh
He actively respects you on first meeting and while his "care" for Loux is weird and clearly almost alien in how he goes about it, he cares for her wellbeing and did raise her into what she is today.
I think Gideon just sees the Throne as something where every resource must needs be expended to it's fullest extent and I also think part of the reason he breaks at the end is because he realizes he did all of that in his quest for nothing
dusty kraken
Even Gideon Ofnir is a completely believable antagonist with clear motives (up u...
My read on him in the last encounter is he was sure there was some big puzzle he needed to figure out to succeed...and it's all come tumbling down to 'No, you can't win'. He's playing chess up until the point he realizes that it was never a winnable game for him from the first move.
covert schooner
I think Genichiro, Gwyn, most of the Demigods, a lot of Bloodborne characters, and then the demigods and a lot of ER characters are of a kind
atomic marsh
Eh
I will say only two characters in Bloodborne really hit all that much
everyone else is either not present or just kinda an asshole
wait
3
proven cloak
do y’all think consort has specifically romantic implications? ||it’d be a lot o...
ehhhhh kind of yeah
kind garden
Bloodborne characters mostly come across as people who either Did Some Shit (what the fuck dude) or are just losing at the game you're barely winning
covert schooner
Ultimately i think that Fromsoft really likes people who are trying
kind garden
It's GOATed, sir
covert schooner
who want to do good things
kind garden
AC6 is peak
atomic marsh
i feel like i'm executive dysfunctioning on playing dawntrail
by picking up new games
atomic marsh
(probably because I now associate FFXIV with a bad relationship attempt)
(hooray ADHD)
dusty kraken
Fromsoft loves people who are very sure they know what is the good thing and how badly them getting what they wanted will go 😛
covert schooner
I think theres a reason ranni is one of the only 2 demigods we don't fight
and it's because she's realized that the only way to help is to let go
atomic marsh
also because she killed the other demigod we don't fight
proven cloak
Ultimately i think that Fromsoft really likes people who are trying
Elden Ring is very even handed on even those who stubbornly rely on failing systems too though
old brook
They even frame the end of everything in a kind light. ( trying to trick you into doing so, but.. it's not invalid )
covert schooner
yeah idk
atomic marsh
why did you gotta kill your brother
proven cloak
he should have just parried smh
old brook
No Blondes Allowed
covert schooner
Elden Ring is very even handed on even those who stubbornly rely on failing syst...
oh i mean absolutely
I fully believe miyazaki is an anarchist
proven cloak
They even frame *the end of everything* in a kind light. ( trying to trick you i...
what I love is that they have good reason to actually believe it, too
covert schooner
his works basically bleed distrust of authority and power
proven cloak
by the time you get the Three Fingers exposition Hyetta's not even trying to manipulate you
kind garden
ranni why the fuck did you do that btw
it was the tactically correct decision
covert schooner
like
proven cloak
they're like "good you agree with us anyway heres why anti-natalism is correct"
covert schooner
everyone who takes power for the greater good in fromsoft games becomes a monster
and ruins the people they are responsible for
kind garden
they're like "good you agree with us anyway heres why anti-natalism is correct"
tbh if you're in the Frenzied Flame proscription and still at the "ok I'll hear you out" stage you are way too credulous of insane frenzy cultists
covert schooner
everyone who takes power at all actually
old brook
everyone who takes power for the greater good in fromsoft games becomes a monste...
o7 way to be on the nose about it, Ludwig
covert schooner
I can't think of a single example of someone using their power appropriately
kind garden
that's some "my curiosity has taken me places I wouldn't go with a gun" type behaviour
covert schooner
in a modern fromsoft
atomic plinth
and this is literally my entire first playthrough
Imagine not being a spellsword build with a colossal greatsword
frail sky
Unrelated to literally everything that's going on right now:
...wait you can get the lizard greatsword?
atomic plinth
STR/INT builds fucking rule
atomic plinth
Unrelated to literally everything that's going on right now:
...wait you can get...
Aye, and you can do the little shooting thing the imps do
covert schooner
the main plot of ds3 is literally that you can't trust the elite to do what theyre fucking supposed to
covert schooner
I mean yes but none of them do anything about it
old brook
the main plot of ds3 is literally that you can't trust the elite to do what they...
the little gentleman who gives you boss weapons was at least focused
covert schooner
even the twins who are the closest to the like
frail sky
Aye, and you can do the little shooting thing the imps do
This feels extremely ds2 and I don't know why
atomic plinth
the little gentleman who gives you boss weapons was at least focused
God bless Ludleth
proven cloak
I do think Elden Ring is more pro-"Big Ambitions" than dark souls
old brook
nothin is going well in Dark Souls
proven cloak
its looking at taking power for the greater good vs. doing nothing and both of them have flaws
covert schooner
sorry i REALLY like the overarcing themes of the fromsoft saga as ill call it
its my jam
and yeah Elden Ring brings a hope to it
proven cloak
though in ER the mending runes are all made by people who personally die to achieve their vision
so its still like
taking power for its own sake / to have control = bad
atomic plinth
and yeah Elden Ring brings a hope to it
Elden Ring is definitely the most hopeful entry into the series
covert schooner
I think it's because the world is still worth saving
atomic plinth
...though Sekiro is arguably more hopeful, since it's not "oh fuck the world is ending" but rather "oh fuck there's a war going on"
covert schooner
I think Melina
sMelina's anti frenzy speech is
legit the most important text in the game
thematically
covert schooner
when taking ER as the next part of Miyazki's body of work
atomic marsh
It really is the Twilight Zone vibe of "man wasn't that fucked up?"
atomic plinth
Yeah, kinda
covert schooner
yeah thematically bloodborn is v different
atomic plinth
There never really felt like an overarching moral or lesson like Dark Souls
covert schooner
but still has the same undertones
old brook
Bloodborne begs the question; should you dig up haunted tombs, and the answer is firmly no
proven cloak
I think it's because the world is still worth saving
Elden Ring breaks away from it where it talks about the divine imo
covert schooner
if anything, i think itsthe exception that proves the rule
proven cloak
brings in a lot of death-of-god stuff
atomic plinth
Which makes sense, cause it's real Lovecraftian, and all Lovecraft's stories were "damn wasn't that shit fucked up"
covert schooner
as far as the anarchism goes
old brook
And it does at least have 'Church and State not being seperate can lead to some places'
covert schooner
bloodborne really isnt about the same thing but keeps the undertone of "don't trust peple in power"
atomic plinth
Bloodborne begs the question; should you dig up haunted tombs, and the answer is...
But have you considered ancient arcane secrets that I want to know despite them being beyond my comprehension
covert schooner
"even when they want to help you, they are not"
kind garden
Unlimited bacon but no Empyreans, or Empyreans but no Empyreans?
proven cloak
woah, slug be upon you
covert schooner
it;s really funny that like
i think the anarchist reading is pretty uncommon
of these works
or at least isn't super popular amoungst figures like Vaati
dusty kraken
sMelina's anti frenzy speech is
My read on that speech is very 'Yes, this situation is bad but...that doesn't mean you shouldn't lose hope in a better tommorow/shouldn't just give up on everything'.
covert schooner
i think maybe because it's like
too political of a theme
for a lot of people to stomach
old brook
That's also more theming than lore
atomic marsh
I feel like it's really hard to say "Don't trust people in positions of power" as a theme in a video game
because like
covert schooner
My read on that speech is very 'Yes, this situation is bad but...that doesn't me...
yeah that's a goodread
atomic marsh
most games have to make bosses in charge of things
that is why they're called Bosses
atomic marsh
Hey is it time for my take that the story for DS2 was better than DS3
proven cloak
theme-wise or plot-wise
atomic marsh
plot-wise
covert schooner
which is "things need to end" followed by "but thats not the default solution. you cannot confuse the decay and death of the world with your personal suffering"
atomic plinth
Hey is it time for my take that the story for DS2 was better than DS3
Why do you say that?
covert schooner
"the world does not end because awful things happen to people"
atomic marsh
DS3 really is just "Things happen I guess" the game
covert schooner
sorry man, the death of flame ending effected me too deeply
for me to consider that
not even saying youre wrong
proven cloak
I feel like the goal of ds3 is more straightforward, but ds2 felt like a more personal journey
covert schooner
but it's too burrowed into my heart
oh DS3 is massively about how Miyazaki is never making another dark souls sequel
proven cloak
Go kill lords because idk vs. Go wander around for a while because you're going to lose everything that makes you, you
covert schooner
it's also a direct sequel to ds1
which ds2 is not
so i think your thoughts on that concept will heavily determine opinions
people complain about ds3 repeating a lot of stuff from 1 and im like
yeah cause its the sequel
the second death star shows up in star wars :3
that darth vader guy too
atomic marsh
that's me I'm people
covert schooner
its fine i just think youre silly
covert schooner
its a sequel to 1 not 2
atomic marsh
"Hey sequel trilogy"
covert schooner
like... miyazaki didnt make 2
atomic marsh
"where's anything from the prequels"
covert schooner
he doesn't have much to say about it
atomic marsh
cool! other people did and it exists so put in the work >:v
covert schooner
okay
I disagree with you
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I think describing ds3 as careless or thoughtless is beyond unfair though
which im not saying you have
proven cloak
he was still a lead supervisor tbf
covert schooner
but ive seen a lot of people call it like
proven cloak
he wasnt uninvolved
covert schooner
fanservice
which i think is heavily missing the point of a lot of the stuff that is included
theres a reason the stuff thats references is referenced
thats my big gribe is when people call it like
a cash grab
or shallow
gripe even
im tired
proven cloak
yeah thats fair
covert schooner
he wasnt uninvolved
i do think theres a different level of authorship but i getcha
atomic marsh
I think it being so nakedly about continuing Dark Souls 1 and then just refusing to acknowledge DS2 is incredibly annoying, especially when DS2 had a lot of setpieces and characters that could've been referenced that would've been sick as hell.
covert schooner
I don't think it refuses to acknowledge it, theres stuff here and there
proven cloak
and a really interesting continuation to the world of ds1
I think ER actually falls in line more with Ds2 than any other souls game
in themes, in messaging
atomic marsh
vs You Just Straight Up Go To Anor Londo
Again
If they had just put in the Burnt Ivory King somewhere like c'mon how do you not include that
the Burnt Ivory King fucking ruled
covert schooner
(i think the anor londo thing is very cool)
ive never been a big ds2 person so im kinda biased
but thats a fair complaint
not what i was originally referring to tho
which is the complaint that it's just a rip off of ds1 basically
like, you go to anor londo in a very different context
than you did in ds1
and it's got a lot off metatextual stuff ABOUT the wanton reuse of stuff from the past
proven cloak
sidenote, not to derail
but reminded me
I've seen a lot of takes that Elden Ring + its dlc has more confusing lore / plot than the souls games
which
covert schooner
since ds3 is kinda about sequels in a meta sense
proven cloak
having played all three
kind garden
lol. lmao even.
proven cloak
is wild to see
proven cloak
"oh the gloam eyed queen isn't explained its basically impenetrable" do you remember the Deep.
covert schooner
I am far too deep in the sauce to input on this
covert schooner
the deep is just a reinterpretation of the dark but its fine
that is a crazy take though yeah
proven cloak
"O ||Romina|| needed a cutscene she was so wasted" who. the fuck. is Pontiff Sulyvahn
covert schooner
idk man people need to read item descriptions or stop talking at this poit
covert schooner
item descriptions are the story of fromsoft games
proven cloak
dark^2, and kind of liquidy
covert schooner
yeah that shit is lost on me
proven cloak
dont get me wrong I like the concepts ds3 brings up
kind garden
I say this as someone who has Opinions on these matters to be clear
proven cloak
but you gotta take them more as vibes
kind garden
but like
covert schooner
I like to think im kinda a fromsoft expert
kind garden
shit's not straightforward
proven cloak
shit's not straightforward
and the actual literal translations / writing has gotten much better
Ds2 has a thing where it refers to Aldia as a place more than a guy in english.
covert schooner
especially dark souls1
atomic marsh
The lore being obtuse is why VaatiVidya has a fucking job
covert schooner
the gloam eyed queen isnt impenetrable shes just not relevant
ike, hey ds1, why do the dragons need that crystal shit that makes them double immortal for some reason
proven cloak
I was watching a friend play SotE
and it was actually wild to me that he never read item descriptions
not even Remembrances
atomic marsh
I didn't in my playthrough either tbf
covert schooner
if you do that its fine but you don't get to complain about not understanding stuff
proven cloak
thats wild to me!
kind garden
ike, hey ds1, why do the dragons need that crystal shit that makes them double i...
just Seath
proven cloak
no prob if thats how you play I just thought everyone did it my way lmao
kind garden
because he's Seathing and malding
proven cloak
I run into new flowers and I'm pulling up the menu
kind garden
he has no scales
atomic marsh
bald bitch
covert schooner
no yeah i read every item description
kind garden
ain't EVEN got legs
covert schooner
i read all the new versions of existing consumables in the dlc
most of which are not relevant
oh for sure
im not saying you didnt
but there are people who complain that the lore doesnt make sense and then dont read the lore lol
atomic marsh
here's the thing I will say
that actually item descriptions being the only way I can understand why I'm doing stuff and why bosses exist in the world
Sucks Actually
atomic marsh
Elden Ring does it better where like
I walk into a room
I see Godrick the Grafted
covert schooner
(mostly glib but i think it's the fromsoft charm)
atomic marsh
and from contextual clues in the world and his dialogue I go
"Oh I know why I wanna kill this guy"
proven cloak
SotE would've been better with some more cutscenes, yeah
kind garden
having some context forced upon the player is good
knowing why I'm doing things: good actually
everything else: unnecessary, leave it in the notes
proven cloak
without reading any descriptions
but how else are you gonna know that The Scadutree is The Shadow of The Erdtree™️
covert schooner
Romina doesn't need a cutscene cause she's kinda not important
but the intro cutscene is pretty important context
its weird they havent been including those, ill agree to that
kind garden
trailer-only lore is stupid actually
proven cloak
true to both
frail sky
We don’t need to spoil weapon names right?
covert schooner
its basically the only criticism i have of the dlc
theyre boss weapons' id say no
frail sky
Kk
covert schooner
I honestly just
don;t get why the extremely beautiful CGI story trailers haven't been in the game since bloodborne
its fucked up too cause the launch trailer had like
insane spoiilers
and showed multiple bossfights
frail sky
Spoilers for boss weapon and quest weapon:
Man, strength/arcane has so many cool weapon options now with the dlc. Before it was like… marais and mohg’s spear, but now we’ve got the ||putrescence cleaver||, the blood fiend’s arm, the meteoric ore greatsword, and the ||flowerstone gavel|| and they all play completely differently and they all need different talisman set ups and god it’s just so much more fun now
…oh and the bloodfiend’s fork also exists apparently
frail sky
That’s dex arcane 😅
covert schooner
oh strength arcane
right
im smort
dont yell at me
im just a big kitty who knows stuff about lore
covert schooner
dont yell at me
like did you know that the lions with the blades in the lands between are probably the descendents of enslaved divine beasts
frail sky
Spoilers for boss weapon and quest weapon:
Man, strength/arcane has so many cool...
Anyway that all being said I’m switching to quality for a bit because apparently the death knight’s twin axes work best with that now. And because I need to try out the dragon great katana thing
proven cloak
im just a big kitty who knows stuff about lore
any dlc revelations hit you particularly?
a lot of metaphysics we got already matched my headcanons || || so I'm chilling on that front
covert schooner
||marika doing this all for revenge and then becoming the thng she hates AND a slave again||
fucked me up p good
proven cloak
I feel like ||I can actually lock in my read on Marika as a character, and some of her motivations|| though
yeah
covert schooner
also the greater will being a deadbeat is the funniest shit ever
proven cloak
||I liked the Metyr stuff thematically, I was already a little sympathetic towards the fingers, but theres something really tragic about the way it underlines how just nobody knows what the fuck they're doing in the lands between, but everyone yearns||
its like damn nobodies winning
except the prawn guy
covert schooner
yeah absolutely
also messmer really caught me off gaurd
guard
real hidden depths
proven cloak
||marika doing this all for revenge and then becoming the thng she hates AND a s...
I do think ||the godhood as a cage thing is more metaphorical than literal: I think its about how forcing the world to rely on you means you'll only ever live long enough to watch it fall apart. Instead of just aliens mind controlling you||
like
||Marika enslaved herself, in the end.||
and thats really tragic
covert schooner
oh yeah absolutely
||its mostly my own headcanon but i think in the end she realizes that the golden order is as bad or worse than the hornsent ever were||
||and i think thats probably what prompts her breakdown||
languid tiger
I do think ||the godhood as a cage thing is more metaphorical than literal: I th...
||yeah, i think Trina's lines put solid support behind that read||
||it's too much power to be free||
proven cloak
||I saw a read that included that as part of her reasons for veiling the shadowlands and Messmer. Not just fear or hatred, but shame.||
covert schooner
Trina makes me really sad
languid tiger
||"a god can't be saved"||
covert schooner
||she never deserved any of this||
languid tiger
||it's putting yourself into a position that is more role than personhood, and the literal control/cage is probably like...not entirely absent, because you're shoving yourself into a space that makes you metaphysical||
||but not a total thing, and more the restriction that comes from being an all-powerful always powerless idol||
kind garden
I have a fun take
covert schooner
like her ending is the world's best chance to stop sucking ass
proven cloak
I like Goldmask, but the dlc made me trust her more in terms of actually sticking to her plan
she also talks about Godhood as a sacrifice shes making, the 'dark path'
covert schooner
followed closely by goldmask but goldmask isnt gonna honeymoon in space with me
proven cloak
so I don't think she has illusions about what shes doing
covert schooner
...... huh
kind garden
||The dread revelation that people have upon peering too deeply into the Primeval Current is that fate is fixed and that the Greater Will’s design writ in the stars is perfect and total. The Nox and the Carians essentially developed free will in the cosmic sense by creating moon magic that guides the stars, which offers an alternative to the Greater Will’s design, and is why primeval current magic opposes moon magic||
covert schooner
sorry you just drew a dune connection in my head
proven cloak
I see Ranni's ending hugely as embracing death, literally leaving the lands between behind (and ensuring you don't have influence on them) by accepting a sort of ultimate powerlessness
its still fucked up what she did to Godwyn
covert schooner
I trust that she had to
proven cloak
but so it goes
kind garden
||This parallels the development of the concept of free will in Judeo-Christian religious scholarship||
covert schooner
||The dread revelation that people have upon peering too deeply into the Primeva...
i think thats very likely
proven cloak
||The dread revelation that people have upon peering too deeply into the Primeva...
that is a fun take!
kind garden
Ranni is the most trustworthy demigod because she’s the only one who treats power as a Awful Thing
covert schooner
or if not likely than at least something similar to it is
i think that ranni escapes most of the ill fate of godhood by fucking off
proven cloak
I've been playing with ||The Nox's black moon as another one of their imitations - not something made to revere the moons that exist, but made like they made the Dragonkin - a copy of something 'holy'||
covert schooner
but she does kill her family so that she can truly depart
kind garden
I've been playing with ||The Nox's black moon as another one of their imitations...
||It’s a copy of the Greater Will’s lightless void.||
proven cloak
||and maybe because of that, a little twisted too?||
oh I did like ||the reveal the fingers were birthed from a star. Really helped settle the "?" around fate in the base game, for me||
||Of course the stars, and the Erdtree, and the Fingers can assign fates - they're all the same thing||
covert schooner
thats my new take is that ranni kills iji and blaidd in part because she knows she has to sever her ties
to the lands between
to ensure she doesnt fold and return one day
kind garden
I’ve been turning my attention to the “lightless void”, actually. I don’t know if it’s meant to be anything in particular, could be a black hole I guess, but more likely I think the lightless void is the true shape of the cosmos and the Greater Will a transcendent, spiritual God that embodies all of creation
proven cloak
pretty much my take
kind garden
The microcosms are just that; tiny models of the universe in total
covert schooner
I personally think the greater will is just one of many gods
just happens to be the one that rose to power
proven cloak
a while before the dlc I started 
more at Outer Gods, and if my take on first playthrough (a bunch of gods in a succession crisis) was right
the GW ||if it exists|| seems to be, at least, responsible for life in the lands between, so I'm chill with it
covert schooner
ehhh
||i mean, life existed before it came to the lands between - the crucible was here before it||
proven cloak
my two *'s I had before the dlc, that formed my theories, were
- The GW did actually send down the Elden Beast / Ring
and - Gold is a signifier of either the GW, or the Elden Ring
proven cloak
||i mean, life existed before it came to the lands between - the crucible was he...
(which is why I give it credit for this - its gold. Also Hyetta ||and Ymir's|| dialogue)
kind garden
I have come to understand the Crucible less as a mass of life, and more as an understanding of life and the concept of life and death intertwined into a helix ladder that climbs to the heavens and transcends
frail sky
thats my new take is that ranni kills iji and blaidd in part because she knows s...
Was she the one that killed them? Afaik she doesn’t actually control the black knives, she just imbued their knives with destined death
languid tiger
the GW ||if it exists|| seems to be, at least, responsible for life in the lands...
||the greater will, i think, definitively has to exist, because a bunch of these esoteric beings are directly associated with it and referred to as its children or creations in the more "omnipotent" item description perspectives - the important question here isn't whether the Greater Will exists, but whether anyone (including its avatars) has ever actually communicated with it successfully since their arrival to the Lands Between||
kind garden
It seems intentional to me that no one has truly contacted the Greater Will; none may claim direct knowledge of God’s will
languid tiger
Was she the one that killed them? Afaik she doesn’t actually control the black k...
yeah the Black Knives show up in more places than just "under Ranni's control" and several references are made to them being a pretty spooky and independent organization
proven cloak
for sure, I just added that because its a popular theory nowadays
languid tiger
they probably just made an alliance
proven cloak
I have come to understand the Crucible less as a mass of life, and more as an un...
taps sign:
languid tiger
and got betrayed
proven cloak
covert schooner
idk why they would do that if not like
proven cloak
says a lot about society divinity
kind garden
They’re a ring of assassins-of-gods
covert schooner
.... okay, who also know she did all of that
languid tiger
not super popular to anyone aware of her part in the Shattering
which isn't a lot of people
but is the Knives and probably some others
kind garden
I think they’re Nox, specifically, descendants of Shamans who were forced underground by the Hornsent genocide and took up residence in the underground Eternal Cities, where they plotted revenge against the divine
languid tiger
i don't, i think that she absolutely adored blaidd and iji and their deaths weren't necessary even to cut loose ends
covert schooner
That's fair
languid tiger
so she doesn't have much motive
covert schooner
I do think she loved them regardless
but my take is that that's why they couldn't stay
kind garden
They devised the Fingerslayer Blade as part of that plot, and later allied with Ranni in order to obtain god-slaying power
languid tiger
i think it's more likely that they were killed because she was gone
and therefore her servants were no longer under her protection
(the protection of the only character who Literally Just Fucking Kills You)
covert schooner
because she would maybe come back if people she loved were left, and she really wants to never come back and knows she might break one day
its definitely i think one of the most mysterious things that happens in the game itself
and is very open to interpretation
languid tiger
straight up the only NPC or boss in the game that can't be beaten to death
covert schooner
it is really funny yeah
languid tiger
she just declares your existence anathema
and the world obeys
and you fucking perish
kind garden
Like I think they basically realized that Ranni was making a play for Godhood after all and turned on her
languid tiger
so without that [I CAN KILL YOU] button
covert schooner
I do really like that Ranni comes to love you, as a sidenote
it's very understated by i find it extremely sweet
languid tiger
i think anyone willing to take out blaidd or iji or both would consider that their opportunity
covert schooner
*but I
and I think she does, not even as like, copium, I just think it's the subtext of her questline
languid tiger
Like I think they basically realized that Ranni was making a play for Godhood af...
i think this is probably pretty close to the truth, whatever the case actually is
yeah
dusty kraken
I do really like that Ranni comes to love you, as a sidenote
Ranni At Start: "Oh no, it's stupid."
Ranni At End: "Oh no, it's stupid." (Affectionate)
languid tiger
ranni's like "oho, my lonely voyage isn't so lonely anymore. i'm touched that you're willing to come along with me"
covert schooner
I think the bit where she's a doll and accidentally tells you her whole fucking plan and then is salty for the next quest stage is really cute
languid tiger
it's fucking hilarious
proven cloak
shes so mean its great
languid tiger
ranni is the archetypical "goth girl who's a little mean to you" but in a very nontoxic way
covert schooner
I really like the dialogue change at the end if you confirm youre married to her
kind garden
It would be the opposite of weird if Ranni the eternally lonely and self-punishing demigod who will take Godhood upon her shoulders alone and strike back at the Fingers for hurting her family even if it means killing them were to have a soft spot for you, the idiot Tarnished who would bear that weight for her too
languid tiger
she's just kinda a goober
proven cloak
always saying stuff to remind you that she is an actual princess raised as such
but also is definitely trying a lil' hard
dusty kraken
There are characters who are mysterious and then there is Ranni who's intentionally mysterious and evidently having to put a lot of work ito it.
languid tiger
it's a really fun characterization
kind garden
Ranni’s truly the best
languid tiger
especially for a fromsoftware game
languid tiger
because of the notable and lighthearted contrast
covert schooner
which was seemingly probably gonna take another like
mighty warren
my spell list is funny
dusty kraken
...I hate to say this but...is Ranni Chuuni?
covert schooner
1000 years
languid tiger
ranni is chuuni as fuck
covert schooner
and then you go and start the radhan festival and find the knife and shes like
i
uh
kind garden
Ranni isn’t chuuni because she fully intends to do all the things she says she can do and has the power to do it
covert schooner
okay
proven cloak
broke: Ranni's ending dialogue is mysterious because the translators made it too obscure on purpose
woke: Ranni's ending dialogue is mysterious because Ranni would say some weirdly cryptic nonsense instead of telling you straight up, and the translators know that
covert schooner
i actualy think her ending is translated pretty well
languid tiger
she absolutely did not have to make herself a four-armed blue magic doll
proven cloak
(same)
kind garden
But yeah she’s like
languid tiger
she did it because she took "you can't match my freak" as a challenge
and is on the ultimate chuuni wavelength
kind garden
A combination of actually really heartbroken and muscling through it to fix things, and also just a goofy little tryhard
covert schooner
she's describing the age of stars as scary and lonely because..... they will be.
and she knows that
frail sky
I think the bit where she's a doll and accidentally tells you her whole fucking ...
There’s also the bit where she accidentally mentions actually liking you, then angrily tells you to forget she said that
dusty kraken
I love the 'oh fuck, right, I was Doing A Bit' when you meet her and she has to explain why she introduced herself as Not-Ranni last time they met.
covert schooner
but it's what has to happen
YEAH THAT WAS GOOD
also shes so trans
like
come on
i refuse to believe this was an accident
kind garden
Yes yes she shed her form for one of her choosing
proven cloak
she did it because she took "you can't match my freak" as a challenge
Marika said 'make of thyseleves that which you desire' ranni said ok bet
"watch this"
languid tiger
covert schooner
not even that but then she fashions her new body after the mentor shes obessed with
frail sky
I love the 'oh fuck, right, I was Doing A Bit' when you meet her and she has to ...
She doesn’t even explain it I don’t think, she just goes “oh shoot I introduced myself as Renna, fuck I didn’t expect to have to tell you you again”
kind garden
Ranni is a truly powerful sad little gremlin avenger for her broken family
frail sky
also shes so trans
proven cloak
the single closed eye is definitely chuuni too
covert schooner
also kinda unrelated but anyone who draws her as not a fucked up doll is a coward
i desire her MORE because shes a weird doll!!!!!!
proven cloak
also shes so trans
I love Elden Ring's problematic lgbt rep, unironically
languid tiger
i desire her MORE because shes a weird doll!!!!!!
gideon.wav
covert schooner
I do love that if you kill seluvis she gets mad at you but i like
in like
almost an understanding way
kind garden
She’s here to take on the curse of godhood on purpose and carry it into exile alone forever for the betterment of the world and so the system can’t continue to create victims or disfigure people like it did her family. She’s a goofy, slightly delulu wannabe tryhard who needs to stack books on her seat to sit at the height she desires to loom over others from. She loves her friends. She’ll fucking kill you, shit means nothing to her. She’ll also make fun of you for talking to her doll form while secretly blushing about it and considering marrying you, then blackmail you into a murder scheme.
Ranni’s the best to ever do it.
covert schooner
like "man could you not? you think i would let that fucking weirdo hang out if i didnt need his ass???"
languid tiger
dracula flow is ranni's alt
proven cloak
I do wonder how the games message would have twisted if Miquella's(?) cut ending was in on launch though
like would the game have left it an open question - miquella's way or ranni's way?
covert schooner
honestly knowing what we do now
i fully think that they were working o the miquella questline
and it got super out of had
hand
and they were like "okay this is a dlc"
languid tiger
and suplex a star in half
kind garden
frail sky
like "man could you not? you think i would let that fucking weirdo hang out if i...
Will say, while I don’t think Ranni killed Iji or Blythe, I do think she’s definitely why Seluvis and Pidia died
covert schooner
oh absolutely
she killed that motherfucker
she absoutely knew what he was up to and didnt sound like she loved it
kind garden
Snapped her fingers and he got done like Rorschach at the end of Watchmen
modest berry
Will say, while I don’t think Ranni killed Iji or Blythe, I do think she’s *defi...
i always assumed they got killed by the knives because she went back on some agreement her and them had post wacky godwyn night, i mean she has their leader in an evergaol
kind garden
“Pray, Seluvis, did’st thou ever study the subtle arts of ligma?”
“No, milady. I have never heard of such a thing. What is ligma?”
covert schooner
kind garden
covert schooner
lmao
languid tiger
proven cloak
and they were like "okay this is a dlc"
yeah, same
but if they originally allowed it as a player choice, I do think the general thrust of what Miquella wanted was the same.
the dlc, imo, clarifies lines like: But remember well, Thou'rt mine. So shall I give of myself. This is for thee. Mine abundance, my drop of dew. and If thou covetest the throne, Impress my vision upon thine heart. - This cut ending seems to be about flourishing under someone elses dream.
covert schooner
EVERYONE AT THE SAME TIME
modest berry
ranni is very much like him, blue, im gonna go into space now
proven cloak
so now you get a lot of reads about Miquella as inherently flawed, versus Ranni - that the game has a didactic message
covert schooner
kissable (?)
kind garden
Se~no!
proven cloak
but if there was a choice originally, it would've been asking the player to decide
atomic plinth
and go to the fucking moon
Fly me to the moon, and let me KICK ITS FUCKING ASS
proven cloak
'fix' the world, or leave it behind?
proven cloak
what the fuck happened while I was typing
covert schooner
honestly i think it would have been the choice to wear the yolk of miquella forcing the world to be kind, or allow it to attemmpt to get there on it''s own
atomic plinth
IN MY MOON JIU-JUTSU CLASS
IN OTHER WORDS, CATCH THESE HANDS
covert schooner
||my choice wouldn't have changed for a second||
kind garden
Miquella can fuck off. Mick’la the tickla is not my god, etc. etc.
proven cloak
honestly i think it would have been the choice to wear the yolk of miquella forc...
a part of me wishes I could've seen the character stans argue
it would've been something.....
kind garden
You can watch that still
frail sky
she absoutely knew what he was up to and didnt sound like she loved it
Oh yeah she definitely knew
kind garden
God damn it
proven cloak
||my choice wouldn't have changed for a second||
||same - 👈 🌞👆||
I think Fia's ending is also underrated tbh
kind garden
I should have saved the image of “I have absolutely no conviction. If a pretty girl disagrees with me, I will change my opinion to match hers.”
languid tiger
I put nepheli in the jar for the first time ever yesterday
proven cloak
horrible
languid tiger
I feel ruined
proven cloak
I cant even put dung eater in the jar ngl
languid tiger
I can, fuck that dickhead
kind garden
I would’ve saved it as “tarnished.jpg” even
covert schooner
so
proven cloak
I'll just beat him to death with hammers
covert schooner
narratively i kinda think dung eaters purpose is like
proven cloak
😌
covert schooner
to justify the frenzy end
frail sky
Oh yeah she *definitely* knew
Oh, apparently if you try this Seluvis just dies, which I mean makes sense
proven cloak
cynicism, I feel
languid tiger
I wish I was at my pc
covert schooner
in a manner of speaking
languid tiger
so I could post the kill people with hammers mp4
proven cloak
He wants to underline the hypocrisy of the Order, but in a way that just makes it worse
covert schooner
oh i mean his ENDING is just for being evil
yeeah hes
kinda a reaction
to the world of the order
in universe
kind garden
Dung Eater: the final reactionary
covert schooner
i just meant out of universe i thibnk he narrative purpose is to be a counterweight to melina in some ways
atomic marsh
If Miquella is Torrent's former master
kind garden
“You believe in making things good? Well I think things should be BAD, ACTUALLY! TAKE THAT!”
proven cloak
"haha cant you see having beliefs at all means youre dumb" type guy
left willow
YO IF DUNG EATER HAS NO HATERS I AM DEAD
proven cloak
whos not actually offering much beyond "hmm hypocritical much?"
atomic marsh
then that means that Miquella has heard of you
And is giving you the wolf spirit ashes to aid you specifically
covert schooner
yeah
proven cloak
If Miquella is Torrent's former master
I might be on the Marika = Torrents former master train now ngl
covert schooner
since theyve already ||done one switcheroo narratively, by framing miquellas intro in the launch trailer as talking about you, but the actual line is about radhaan||
also yes i know i constantly mispell that name
kind garden
Okay time to post my final and strongest post
left willow
Anyways, does anyone else feel bad about [Shadow Keep] ||having to fight and beat Mama's Boy Messmer?||
kind garden
If the option was given to be Radahn instead ||(ie be Miquella’s lord)|| people would be picking the fuck out of it
covert schooner
He deserves it but it is very sad
since he
is a legit ||victim of marika's genuine abuse||
left willow
Like, my character doesn't. But in terms of bosses I feel bad about beating down, he's probably second after... Rennala? (Mommy Moon, not Blue Balls Babe)
covert schooner
||she absolutely manipulated him, emotionally, into leading the crusade||
kind garden
Messmer is genuinely a sad boy and I feel bad for him
left willow
Yes, Rennala, not Rellana (wtf game. your bosses are hard enough to keep track of T^T)
kind garden
He was nice and shit, and then martyred himself as the figurehead of the crusade for mommy
left willow
blame george
George?
feral linden
Wuthering Heights level of name claustrophobia
kind garden
Like does it excuse the Hornsent genocide? No, but also: the crimes are fake but my feelings about getting manipulated by your mom are real
left willow
(I just yell "MIAZAKI!!" to the ceiling every time I confuse two boss names)
kind garden
So. You know.
covert schooner
I still; can't get over the game essentially like
making fun of itself
with margit
which is absolutely supposed to be taking the piss
kind garden
He literally said carve it on thy meagre grave, dude is straight up mocking you
“Pfft, ‘Margit’? Come on, you bought that? Idiot.”
covert schooner
I genuinely got mad when i first read the name morgott
and as the game went on
i was slowly like
"no fuck you'
"you can't do this me"
kind garden
I’ll be honest, I had nothing until the boss fight, and then it all fell into place and I was laughing so hard he killed me
covert schooner
I got mad about it in the network test
and then as the game went on and margit was never mentioned again
I was like "no.... fuck off"
and then the morgott boss appeared and i screamed
kind garden
If you’re famous enough, saying your own name but in an obnoxious heavy accent is basically a pseudonym
covert schooner
also fucked up how morgott is like
the greatest cleric of an age
right
like we see him do some absolutely insane miracle shit
left willow
I’ll be honest, I had nothing until the boss fight, and then it all fell into pl...
I was playing in a vc and had someone explain the VAST majority of it (other than wtf are omens) after I beat him the first time :(
proven cloak
he's so cool
left willow
Which was a bummer
kind garden
Morgott has heavy rain swords
covert schooner
he's the second saddest son of marika
kind garden
That makes you cool automatically
kind garden
Religious Trauma, Ph.D
proven cloak
I mean you know what they say,
kind garden
Younger brother of Mommy Issues M.D.
left willow
hmm, if you were making a Demi-Human Chief (from Elden Ring) into a ttrpg boss fight, what abilities would you give him other than "stab someone"?
covert schooner
to relate it to something tha happens irl
proven cloak
||The broken and discarded are fully willing to cling to fleeting simulacra, earning them some modicum of sympathy.||
& sometimes your simulacra mother is a formless pool of blood & sometimes its a statue & sometimes its a big tree
🤷♂️
covert schooner
it reminds me of when gay people get really into religion in a way that's like... clearly them trying to not be
or trying to make up for a perceived flaw in the eyes of god
proven cloak
hmm, if you were making a Demi-Human Chief (from Elden Ring) into a ttrpg boss f...
"Summon BABOON WARRIORS"
covert schooner
idk. just something that ive thought of
proven cloak
oh no for sure
covert schooner
when discussing morgott
proven cloak
thats 100% my read as well
left willow
"Summon ``BABOON WARRIORS``"
(Is that "make more demi humans"?)
covert schooner
just this desperation to him
proven cloak
and how he mirrors his brother delving headfirst into being completely unapologetic about anything about himself
kind garden
Meanwhile his brother went “you know what’s fucking sick? Satan. Get you some Satan.”
kind garden
So are Satanists
proven cloak
Morgott's running around in rags while Mohg's like "fuck you, I'm literally Him™️"
kind garden
The murder cult is genuinely overplayed
left willow
So are Satanists
Listen. If the Temple of Satan has no fans, I'm dead.
kind garden
I don’t think they were doing much in the way of wanton slaughter before they became an instrument of Stopping Someone Else From Winning
covert schooner
yeah
meanwhile rykard ACTUALLY loves killing people
rykard loves murder so much
proven cloak
(Is that "make more demi humans"?)
(yes, you usually find them with other ones around)
kind garden
Rykard unironically likely way worse
frail sky
Their murders also seem to be targeted at tarnished, who are all technically threats to lordship
Which is something we also do a lot, though for us it’s the demigods
proven cloak
Rykard unironically likely way worse
like a week before dlc drop I was arguing these same points and the VC I was in came after me
||Mohg fans were so back when it dropped||
covert schooner
my character hated the golden order, loved the volcano manner, then saw rykard and went DUDE NO THATS JUST GODS AGAIN
DAMMIT
YOURE DOING THE SAME SHIT
left willow
(yes, you usually find them with other ones around)
Oh, he was already going to have this ability as like.... a liar effect for lack of a better term, but it makes me think he should have a "buff backup dancers" for the roar
kind garden
Rykard was straight up on that “haha fuck it man, let’s make things WAY worse. But I’ll be in charge this time.” Shit
covert schooner
yeah
proven cloak
Rykard was straight up on that “haha fuck it man, let’s make things WAY worse. B...
which is a really good thematic message
covert schooner
him winning the shattering would absolutely be like
kind garden
No frenzy is still worse
proven cloak
he went "the gods are awful because they take things and abuse power! thats why I need to do the same stuff to get on their level!"
left willow
Rykard was straight up on that “haha fuck it man, let’s make things WAY worse. B...
Didn't Rykard like ||get eaten by some outer power that slept beneath the volcano?||
kind garden
Total annihilation is 100% the worst outcome
kind garden
Didn't Rykard like ||get eaten by some outer power that slept beneath the volcan...
ON PURPOSE
covert schooner
idk. kinda seemed like eternal suffering over in rykard town
proven cloak
Didn't Rykard like ||get eaten by some outer power that slept beneath the volcan...
he let- yeah
stone cove
Yeah, he did it willingly. Rykard is a FREAK
left willow
ON PURPOSE
OH I DIDN'T CATCH THAT. WTF, BRO
covert schooner
i think it depends on whether or not rykards victims stay awate
aware
of their suffering
stone cove
OH I DIDN'T CATCH THAT. WTF, BRO
N o we can devour the godsssh.... TOGETAH
obtuse halo
Togethaaaa
kind garden
Listen I’m gonna be real, not EVERYONE would die or get eaten in the Rykard scenario
proven cloak
of their suffering
I think ||they stay as aware as Jar Innards||
left willow
Yeah, he did it willingly. Rykard is a FREAK
something something snakes are better at getting out of bondage?
kind garden
If you pick Frenzy, that’s a 101% kill rate minimum
covert schooner
btw
kind garden
Nuclear annihilation
kind garden
No afterlife, no second chances, everything’s going straight to oblivion
proven cloak
though Melina's still there
covert schooner
does Tanith have any reaction to any dlc stuff that we know of
kind garden
Melina’s there because you haven’t finished Frenzying yet
stone cove
Nothing in the base game reacts
kind garden
You’re just starting to morb out
stone cove
afaik
covert schooner
wouldnt be surprised if tyhere turns out to be a secret reacon somewhewre
left willow
Frenzy Flame (and similar endings in other media) is literally the LEAST interesting goal a villain or organization can have
left willow
It's so BORING
covert schooner
I mean, it's very evangelion
shabriri and hyetta don't seem to belief frenzy is a death per say
proven cloak
Frenzy Flame (and similar endings in other media) is literally the LEAST interes...
I actually like Frenzy way more than the others because its underlined to be a reaction to extreme suffering, and a 'merciful' end to pain
stone cove
wouldnt be surprised if tyhere turns out to be a secret reacon somewhewre
Dataminers woulda found it
left willow
"Oh, I want everything to be one, no distinction, nothing but unending oneness"
Cringe
covert schooner
yeah it's more of their motives that are interesting
mighty warren
I've my own liking of it to due to my personal takes on it
proven cloak
its not just destruction for the sake of it (usually (Shabriri notwithstanding))