MAGNAGOTHICA MALEGHAST

[keen ravine]

she got the new air jordans

[tame pasture]

as tom intended

[hexed coral]

Smoking that shit that made the Corpse Piler

[nova mason]

and deadsouls finds it funny that they can basically make gargamaxers eat anything

[hexed coral]

Smoking that shit that made the Garga Maxx

[languid lotus]

with my lack of tactical skill?

[languid lotus]

corpse piler i hardly know 'er

[halcyon wharf]

Dracula Flow taking on new meaning

[short estuary]

I'm not sure you get what I mean, the mutation tokens can replace a vitality spend from reducing damage

And they usually have a shit ton of mutation tokens

[nova mason]

like its literally like a fucking motionless goth hands at their sides just getting like horribly ground on by the just most horrid gremlin punk but both are here for it lol

[languid lotus]

holy body gets 6 vit at combat start

[short estuary]

It's not just high vit gen

[languid lotus]

and super armor

[short estuary]

That's cringe

[keen ravine]

I was pushin bricks for the Many Colored Devil since before you became a Type One Necromancer

[tame pasture]

thats what i said

[languid lotus]

balance point is 3 hp 2 df

[hexed coral]

In the club playing [SLIME CORE, NEW ERA MIX (Dead Rodent Eating a Rib)]

[short estuary]

That's less cringe

[zinc solstice]

The trademark Tom Kill Billions Grin

[short estuary]

I dunno I'd have to play with it to see

[tame pasture]

you will hit the holy body

but by god it will soak

so much damage

[languid lotus]

and no miracle for some reason. still confused by that

[nova mason]

yeah and once all the maxxer are comatos teh deadsouls start their rave

[tame pasture]

the 3hp is deceptive to put it simply

[short estuary]

The specific case I was dealing with was a 6 HP unit with comparable vit

[nova mason]

and its justhorrible like reverbed to shit like dubstep

[short estuary]

And very limited str

[keen ravine]

even this zombie dripped out

[languid lotus]

it's like ssc emperor from what i gather

[nova mason]

like the building is just shaking

[halcyon wharf]

they must have amnesia they forgot that im him doesn’t even need editing

[languid lotus]

the one time i played an emperor i took absolutely no actual damage, i was handing out so much overshield

[hexed coral]

Oh so it’s just that line from Upside Down Pineapple played at max volume

[nova mason]

gods

i vaguely remember what you mean

[arctic solar]

holy body is the day 2 thing I'm seeing people think is busted but I'm waiting for day 7 before casting judgement

[nova mason]

but its been so long

[versed ravine]

people who've played it out: what's the CARCASS - Deadsouls matchup look like

[opaque socket]

real

[nova mason]

like the way i describe it is its the song freak on a leash

[versed ravine]

they look like they hate each other

[opaque socket]

you got the right idea

i think

[nova mason]

but each person thinks theyre the one holding the leash

[pale echo]

this is extra funny with Day 1 people saying it looks so weak

[nova mason]

and has not like discussed if this is the case at all. but it just works out anyways

[opaque socket]

I give it two days tops before someone complains about something from a different faction being too good

[arctic solar]

agreed

[pale echo]

everyone is still learning the game

[arctic solar]

my personal bet is barrelform being the next 'oh no strong' one

[opaque socket]

get working nerds

[lethal trench]

Holy Body is strong, but it has counters

[arctic solar]

2 vuln is spooky scary

[lethal trench]

mainly token removal

[nova mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02ljNU87GTg&ab_channel=DistortedMusic

[hexed coral]

This absolutely

[nova mason]

like this is the song for garga x soul dynamic in my head

also cw for like sound lol

[opaque socket]

There is also a huge chance this completely changes with higher difficulty levels too btw

[languid lotus]

i have no idea how to find someone to play maleghast with. my ttrpg strategy is invariably take-whatever-games-i-can-find so i don't really know how to ask or coordinate or anything

[keen ravine]

Goregrinders wanted some initiative, blew up their entire Pit, I'm moving like Carcenkarrion

[hexed coral]

Slap that on a jacket and call me fresh

[nova mason]

also goregrinders always pass out first at the rave

like they are all wild to start but last maybe an hour

[silver lotus]

Some of us work tomorrow, okay?

[nova mason]

sounds like weak shit to me smh

[halcyon wharf]

the last guy who ran off on the black mass got choked out by some bonenchy gloves. the last thing he ever saw was the price tag. slowly faded into darkness and i let the abhorrers take him

[elfin ermine]

fucked up round 2 boardstate

[hexed coral]

Candles that burn brightest etc etc

[keen ravine]

JESUS LMAO

[hexed coral]

JEEZ

[nova mason]

the abhorrers are the djs

[languid lotus]

now i'm worried i'll be disappointed by the goregrinder build i put together

[short estuary]

This is what I'm talking about

[hexed coral]

So what you’re saying is

[nova mason]

and the ones on the upper level just sipping drinks

[hexed coral]

Maleghast is the Friday Night Funking of Tom work now

[short estuary]

Homunculus zooted with 1 vit and like 6 mutates

[shut hare]

that would only be true if tom buys crack now

[nova mason]

maleghast is absolutely toms barely hidden stratafication of a goth dance club

[hexed coral]

True

That’s awesome

[zinc solstice]

tbf, it's not that they can't handle it.
Goregrinders are absolutely the guys literally chugging gasoline and methanol for stunts and paying the price of being absolute idiots (they will regard the event fondly from the hospital bed)

[thick sphinx]

I think all the solutions to killing a Homunculus as the Mox are Necromancer-based? Unholy Vapors and Necrocide seem like your best bet I guess

[nova mason]

no yeah exactly like theyre the fuckers starting moshes for no reason

and getting kicked out or fuckign rolled out on stretchers lol

[silver lotus]

Some of us need to get a whole party in, in under 45 minutes. If we pass out now, we can get to work on time and pretend it was refreshing.

[hexed coral]

Salute to the brave, who did what we could not

[short estuary]

You have to actually pick those

I did not

[nova mason]

like and abhorrers are those obviously non sceners who either are there with a scene friend and horrified or are the angry as fuck scene kids parents

[arctic solar]

I think you can probably just ask in this channel and see if someone's up for something now / in a few hours? Same principle as setting up board game nights more or less

[elfin ermine]

its fucking crazy

[thick sphinx]

Idly, what did you pick?

[patent steeple]

do we have a maleghast role?

[elfin ermine]

he keeps doing 3-4 str gains and then aoe 2 damages to just obliterate everything

[patent steeple]

perhaps we should

idk the procedure

[hexed coral]

Seething in the upper floors

[patent steeple]

for this sorta stuff

[short estuary]

I picked the corpse exploder on that particular game

[halcyon wharf]

Oh that’s probably a good role to have

[languid lotus]

another element is i can't properly work a vtt to save my life

[nova mason]

nah nah if its parents theyre standing like stock straight at the ground bar

looking around angrily

[silver lotus]

Has anyone played a heresy game yet?

[crisp night]

I would love a maleghast role

[opaque socket]

lets get a role for malegaze you're right

[hexed coral]

^^

[nova mason]

lol yeah

[hexed coral]

Let’s Maleghast it up

[patent steeple]

something nice and pingable

[hexed coral]

@corpseboys

And or people

[shut hare]

abhorrers definitely ruining the function

"get off the table" vibe

[short estuary]

It was also the first time I played so I didn't really understand it that well

[patent steeple]

that one abhorrer necro that just gets funky

on off days

[thick sphinx]

How's it getting the Strenght, Inject Mutagen?

[nova mason]

also the abhorrers who are kids either end up going home with a goregrinder or end up like being their till the end with the souls and gargas

[versed ravine]

role me

[nova mason]

and either like just quietly leaving at that point or having one hell of a story to tell their future kids

[shut hare]

lmfao

[hexed coral]

“I saw the end of all parties”

“I witness a dying star”

[shut hare]

young dad lore except its your average abhorrer

[languid lotus]

roll20 is a garbage fire and i have no idea how to use owlbear rodeo

[hexed coral]

“And lo! It was some guy on a table, zooted out of his gourd”

[nova mason]

like ride or die future puritan mom who just happens to have the wildest "how i lost my v card" story lol

[versed ravine]

owlbear is fairly intuitive

[nova mason]

and only tells the story once like when she ends up shit faced

and denies it to her grave

[elfin ermine]

needs to roll at least a 2 to get the on-hit effect to teleport away

[versed ravine]

at least imo

[elfin ermine]

its joever.....

[short estuary]

Roll20 is not that intuitive but I don't think it's a trashfire

[thick sphinx]

How did you just perfectly sum up my early 20s?

[short estuary]

Let alone for a game that has the level of simplicity as maleghast

[languid lotus]

i got hit with a 22 gb memory leak from it the other day, it's a computational house of cards

[nova mason]

because i am a partial poser partial sage of the scene lol

[arctic solar]

I haven't used owlbear but its docs look pretty readable

[opaque socket]

finding a way to add maleghast as a role

and its not gonna be fancy

[nova mason]

a born to scene kid who tricked themself into being the opposite for a long ass time lol

[opaque socket]

its just going to be @ maleghast as a role

[arctic solar]

I will say your experience is extremely abnormal I think

[short estuary]

That sounds bizarre

[timber onyx]

Thats impressive

[hexed coral]

Terrifying actually

[short estuary]

I've never had that in the actual years I've used it

[languid lotus]

and i've experienced it randomly crashing firefox before

[opaque socket]

go get your role folks

[nova mason]

but yeah thats my rave break down of maleghast. thanks for coming to my ted talk lol

[keen ravine]

Tied the thralls to the back of an Egis Weapon and dragged 'em around the Walk of Unforgiven Souls for 24 hours

[pale echo]

hacker voice i'm in

[arctic solar]

not quite the place to diagnose roll20 issues, but do you have any extensions for Firefox that could interact with roll20?

[languid lotus]

i should know, i look down at the ram info on my system info bar, see "29.9 gib" in the "in use" section, panic, suspect r20, close the tab, immediately drops back down to 7 gib

[hexed coral]

Never go to a Carcass party, they'll start playing Warren Zevon and won't stop

[elfin ermine]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443934556479815690/1169766274755211384/image.png?ex=655698bd&is=654423bd&hm=3c90ee157c9580d48d66b64cc7f60947c4ac6607fac2f79057aa37b117a6cdcc&

😭

average fleshstitcher versus worlds strongest catholic man

[serene sundial]

It really do be like that.

[hexed coral]

Rector Thomas coming in hot with the fresh prayers

[elfin ermine]

the six speed, line 4, 2 damage, doesnt roll to attack fiend

just gunned me down

I missed the final katana move to step to safety for at least another turn

[elfin ermine]

its why the Abhorrers are the DJs yeah

[languid lotus]

point is, i'm gonna use owlbear because i'm not buying foundry and nobody uses maptool

[versed ravine]

based

owlbear good

[languid lotus]

wish more people used maptool but nobody does so i'm working in my options

[maiden hatch]

This the necro-den

[languid lotus]

there's the additional wrinkle of map design being something I Do Not Know

[versed ravine]

does "1" range mean 1 further than melee

or does it mean melee

[umbral cipher]

Gonna ask this again

[short estuary]

Good news: you can just use the maps in maleghast for the special scenarios

Or use them as a starting point for inspiration

[languid lotus]

inspiration for doing it in what program

[undone kestrel]

Can Devil Bullet trigger S.T.G.?

[short estuary]

I have the answer you don't want to hear which is roll20

[languid lotus]

fuck

[short estuary]

Or anything that makes square hex maps

[arctic solar]

I have a hot take of my own: google sheets

[short estuary]

Like dungeondraft I think is one

[short estuary]

Bizarre but somewhat workable

[serene sundial]

Trigger on roll I think

[versed ravine]

all square map games can be played on an excel spreadsheet, AMA

[short estuary]

There's some free ones that I always forget and then Google to find again

[arctic solar]

Legitimately this is a thing you learn by doing
Do it in rpgmap if you gotta

play on maps to see how they play

but also bad maps are fine too

[thick sphinx]

I think it's a templating thing and you still roll effect dice

[short estuary]

Steal icon maps and they will probably just work if you scale them

[languid lotus]

i need to learn what to make the maps in before i can learn how to make non-shit maps

[short estuary]

Like from deeptower

[umbral cipher]

Gotcha! Makes sense

Only Headshots that do the funny thing then

(@harsh gorge for another thing clarified)

[arctic solar]

Google sheets, or just, like, grab some objects and sprinkle them on a blank rectangle

[short estuary]

Use paint if you want

[harsh gorge]

Headshots are great

[short estuary]

Doesn't have to be complicated

[arctic solar]

legitimately, the thing I did for the Panic game works fine

[harsh gorge]

Ah thank you

[crisp night]

hey sorry for the ping but how did you mark units as dead/corpse with the skull overlay. was that just a custom tile you slapped on top or what

i am very bad with foundry

[hexed coral]

I figure you just make it a status?

[arctic solar]

this is also pretty good probably but I haven't tried it

[patent steeple]

i believe its an option in the initiative order

under combat tracker

[crisp night]

ohhh yes it is

thank you

[grizzled silo]

god, the heartbreaking agony of reading through every unit writeup excited for Skeletonball, only to recall at the last second that he's not a unit, he's a flavor NPC. DLC Skeletonball faction when

[glacial junco]

Necromancer thats a tyrant sized ball

ORBB

[grizzled silo]

YES

[hexed coral]

Oh you said you were planning games with friends. How's that going?

[crisp night]

im about to run one in a bit

i'm just trying to chisel off as much of my rust as i can

there's just so many features i forgot how to use because the last time i used foundry was over a year and a half ago now

[hexed coral]

Oh gotcha. Good luck!

[thick sphinx]

Could make it part of a map, have it roll back and forth. "Pendulum and the Pit" bit

[hexed coral]

Are you using the deadsouls list?

[crisp night]

yes

my friend is gonna use abhorrers

which will be interesting

[hexed coral]

Oh interesting.

Hopefully you can wall them off!

[crisp night]

i hope so too

[crisp night]

my biggest worry is, expectedly, the holy body

[hexed coral]

Of course yeah

[crisp night]

this movie sucks but i love it

[hexed coral]

that thing is scary

[hexed coral]

The CUBE

Love that thing

[crisp night]

cubesouls

[hexed coral]

Magnacube Malacube

[thick sphinx]

Huh, interesting. Body Block only works if you're the "primary target". Good thing to keep in mind

[crisp night]

yeah doesnt work for splash or line

[hexed coral]

Makes sense I figure

[crisp night]

and infect spread doesn't technically count as like, fuckin

[thick sphinx]

Or Infect, or a Warhead's cleave I think

[crisp night]

an attack

oh i forgot about cleave

infect spread is an effect so it's its own thing

but i forgor about cleave

man warheads are funny

[thick sphinx]

They are the bestest little ones

[crisp night]

one last question for anyone in here who has played maleghast on foundry;
is there a way to actually get a unit's attack to target an enemy directly so it'll roll against their defense and spit out a result, or do you just have to roll the dice and tally the damage/effects yourself, or what

i feel like i remember the lancer system i played on like a year ago having that but that could be a false memory

[patent steeple]

you'll have to make a macro

theres one for simple worldbuilding

but not for the icon system

[crisp night]

oh lord i have no idea how to do that

i can figure that out later

manual will work fine for a first game

[tame pasture]

in da pinz

my funny

setup

[shut hare]

foundry has a built in targeting system

[crisp night]

oh yeah

[patent steeple]

yeah when i ran it on the icon system i did it manually

[shut hare]

you have to hook the mechanic into the targeting system but it's basically already there

[patent steeple]

if i would run it on simple worldbuilding i would use the macro

[umbral cipher]

hmmm...

HARVESTMAN
Rickertock Scion
MV 3 HP 4 DF 5+ ARM -
Traits: 
Ghoulcore
ACT Abilities:
Scythe Through 
(Attack, Melee)
You may Step 1 before attacking. On Hit: Splash (self) 1 damage.
Razorwatch
(Self, Effect)
Until the start of this unit's next turn, characters moving or being moved adjacent to it for the first time take 1 damage. 
Wheat From Chaff 
(Curse, Recycle)
Curse, Effect: All hostile units within Range 2 take 2 Vulnerable (+4) and 2 Weak.

[crisp night]

okay last thing i set up the illandril's tooltips from the first screenshot but don't know what window has the stuff in the second screenshot

i really appreciate the help by the way 🙏

[tame pasture]

actor tab

attributes for an actor

[willow gust]

what ar eyou using to build that?

[hexed coral]

There's a pin for it, I believe

check those!

[tame pasture]

simple worldbuilding system

in the pins

[hexed coral]

^^

[mystic lark]

Currently fussing about with papercraft miniatures before my group's first game Saturday.

[umbral cipher]

Hell yeah

[mystic lark]

Very excited to try the game out, love the style a lot

[twilit atlas]

First two pages for a custom faction I'm working on. Probably an unbalanced nightmare, but still fun to do.

[hexed coral]

Looks good so far!

[patent steeple]

how did u get the formatting

[steady tangle]

3rd party content already?

[umbral cipher]

early homebrew gang
and yes please give me that formatting

[patent steeple]

yeah, any way you can make a formatting guide?

[twilit atlas]

I can try

[patent steeple]

factions are pretty asymmetric and the game has low numbers

[twilit atlas]

I knew nothing about photo editting about 3 hours ago so it's pretty scuffed but it works

[patent steeple]

its pretty easy to make homebrew i think

[umbral cipher]

I've been kicking around stuff since yesterday, yeah

[umbral cipher]

Oh, I see

[lethal trench]

do Soul abilities always originate from your Necro, or do they originate from whichever unit's turn it is?
assuming abilities that can activate on allied/any turn obviously

[umbral cipher]

I would presume from your Necro unless otherwise stated?

[patent steeple]

your necro

[lethal trench]

does it actually say that anywhere?
I was unsure, and couldn't find anything that specifies either way

[patent steeple]

checking

[crisp night]

https://fixupx.com/Zhjake/status/1720220086404059263?s=20

holy shit look at this art

[umbral cipher]

ough

[patent steeple]

since SOUL abilities are abilities like ACT abilities, they work the same way, point of origin being the caster and range being measured from the caster

i dont think its explicitly said, but thats how ACT abilities work

[hexed coral]

YO

[patent steeple]

if they worked differently i think it would mention it

[crisp night]

also i couldn't figure out how to set stuff up in simple worldbuilding so i'll just keep using the icon system lol

brain too small

[plush verge]

following bc i live for necromancy

[hexed coral]

Or unlive, as it were

[autumn gale]

Live in a “It lives!!!” Way

[tiny fulcrum]

I think I'm gonna go Goregrinders gaming next

[tired bolt]

same

[tiny fulcrum]

Goregrinders grindset gaming

[hexed coral]

Nice! I’ve also got them on my list

Plus it means I can use the name LORD MAGNANIMOUS NITROUS seriously

[magic basalt]

currently putting together an igorri squad for a tournament match on monday

love to mutate

[sand bear]

I have noticed a typo. The die is a 4, not 4!, which is 24

[night hedge]

i think i'm gonna focus on making a lot of gore grinders lists rather than do a bunch of houses for the moment

[autumn gale]

For those that have played, how much of a factor has losing your necromancer been? My major worry with the system is that it’ll be mostly a scramble to assassinate the necro without concern for other objectives.

[tiny fulcrum]

That is very hard to do generally, due to body block

[lethal trench]

body blocking makes that generally pretty hard, unless you leave your necro exposed

[patent steeple]

still need good positioning tho

[thick sphinx]

I think the Mox may actually be the best at Necro-sniping, since so much of their stuff can't be body-blocked?

That or you're getting real tactical with pushes and pulls

[patent steeple]

mox is a hard match up

for necro centric builds

[thick sphinx]

A well-timed Push may let the Operator STG a necro, or a Warlord Devil Impact them

[versed ravine]

I think my first list is gonna be Abhorrers

They look so weird

[thick sphinx]

Though that far in the game Devil Impact is probably a mutual-kill

[lethal trench]

hazards can be nasty for chipping at the Necromancer yeah

[arctic solar]

DI is the 6-soul ability I believe the least in

[thick sphinx]

Hazards, Plague, Infect-bouncing...

[arctic solar]

it's a nice threat to hold over the other guy's head but it's situational

[thick sphinx]

It's definitely a meme, I just wish Blood Rage let you survive it.

[lethal trench]

how much starting HP does the Warlord have?

[thick sphinx]

10

[arctic solar]

10 iirc

[thick sphinx]

No armor, no Vitality, 3+ Def

I don't really see a situation where Devil Impact isn't a mutual kill

[tiny fulcrum]

I thought blood rage let you live there?

[quasi bridge]

yeah that's the idea I'd assumed

[thick sphinx]

Nope, Devil Damage Obliterates

[quasi bridge]

oh you're so right! wacky

[tiny fulcrum]

Man that's kinda whack for a 6 Soul ability

[autumn gale]

I mean you’d still win if it killed the necro right.

[arctic solar]

geeez
operators have 8 hp but 4+ def and armor
plaguelord has 10 hp and 4+ def
dark priest has 8 hp, 4+ def, and ward
exorcist is 10 hp and 4+ def
chirugeon: 10 hp, 4+ def, ward

[thick sphinx]

Yeah, it's kinda unfortunate

[thick sphinx]

I think you'd tie?

[arctic solar]

oh wait maybe not

it's 'deal 6 damage to the unit. then deal 6 damage to yourself'

so, maybe?

[thick sphinx]

Actually, yeah, so you might win before the damage gets delt to you?

That means you can only ever use it on the enemy necro though. No one-shotting bound devils

[arctic solar]

I guess the grinder wins there

also I just noticed how many of the deadsouls have def 5+

very spooky

[magic basalt]

<The Repo Men>

House: Igorri
Malice: Spite (0) | Unit Limit: 5

[Units]
2x2 Stitch
1x  Chop Doc
1x  Lycan
1x  Strigoi

[Necromancer]
Chirurgeon <Miss Steal Your Genes>
Bonus Trait: Accelerate Evolution

[ACT Upgrades]
Mutagen Injector

[SOUL Upgrades]
Devolve
``` gaming

[quasi bridge]

planning for my first game later this week; I saw "thralls (unlimited)" and saw red and came out with 8 warheads and a necromancer, am I utterly screwed or is this workable

[tired bolt]

holy shit the repo men

[hexed coral]

Good name!

[tired bolt]

from my movies

[quasi bridge]

(I'm running it either way cos I love the idea but)

[hexed coral]

From the movies?? Love that

[magic basalt]

woah

yeah I showed my partner Repo! last night so its on my brain

[patent steeple]

oh r u running a 2v2

[quasi bridge]

ya

[patent steeple]

nice

lemme know how it goes

2v2 seems insane

[arctic solar]

you're probably fine, you have a billion SOUL to work with

[quasi bridge]

that's the idea

[arctic solar]

GLORY KILL doesn't care how much armor or vitality the other guy has, it just cares about hp

smash the holy body to smithereens

[lapis bone]

Does free movement also apply to the extra movement needed to change elevation?

[thick sphinx]

They some tanky cultists

Mildly amusing that the dude with the riot shield has the same DEF as the dude with a chainsaw and leather apron

[night hedge]

House: Goregrinders
Malice: Hatred
Slots: 5

Carnifex 1 THE CHAIN: Heavy Swing

Carnifex 2 THE TEETH: Heavy Swing

Carnifex 3 THE TRIGGER: Heavy Swing

Pain Ghoul 1 THE FUEL: Stim Haze

Pain Ghoul 2 THE FIRE: Stim Haze


Warlord: VIOLENCE HATE ENGINE
Trait: Nerve Twitch
Act: Spine Devil Blade, Quench, Furious Roar, Apoplexy
Soul: Devil Impact, Blood Boil, Killing Spree```
silly little mass, the idea is carnifex's rev and build strength for a turn or two, VH8 does apoplexy twice, and then turn 3 murder blender the enemy necromancer

[arctic solar]

I believe so?
I think the list of things relevant to it is like
-elevation
-adverse terrain
-slow tokens

[night hedge]

will probably never have enough soul to devil impact but it's an option if things go on that long

[lapis bone]

So for a Lycan's Lope, where does the corpse need to be for it to gain free movement to ignore the elevation penalty? On the lower space, the higher space or both?

[elfin ermine]

Chiurgeons are def the winners here

the tokens they generator mean they can raw stat check a lot

[next basin]

yo this looks based

[elfin ermine]

true!

[arctic solar]

good question
um.

I have no idea lol

[tacit cedar]

lycan always has free movement, the corpse is just for the hazard I'm pretty sure

[thick sphinx]

Movement cost is for entering, so I'd guess the higher space?

[arctic solar]

oh, that makes sense!

[tacit cedar]

could be wrong but I think that's the idea

[arctic solar]

and is much simpler to explain how it interacts with speed tokens

[elfin ermine]

Igorris good at it, Homunculus and Necro have access to STR and solid AOEs on large bodies

target a wall with flesh whip, splash the Necro

[thick sphinx]

I think this is actually unclear. Is it "Has free movement / and ignores hazards in spaces occupied by corpses" or "Has free movement and ignores hazards / in spaces occupied by corpses". I think the former makes more sense, or at least is a lot clearer rules-wise

[thick sphinx]

True that

[tacit cedar]

yeah english sucks

[thick sphinx]

Homunculus is going to be a right terror

[tacit cedar]

like both are completely valid readings

[arctic solar]

homunculus be like 'what if holy body had strength tokens instead'

[thick sphinx]

Trying to figure out how I beat Homunculus/Chirurgeon as Goregrinders. That's a rough matchup

[arctic solar]

you really gotta hit them before they start picking up tokens

[elfin ermine]

they lack armor, but the vitality is rough

yeah

[thick sphinx]

Possibly by playing keep-away with my Painwheels?

[lapis bone]

Yeah I was reading it as the latter, but I think it is less confusing for the former. Could be worth clearing up though

[arctic solar]

hmm
glory kill bypasses vitality which could be useful

[thick sphinx]

Chirurgeon has Ward and Homunculus can get armor

[arctic solar]

ah heck absorb bypasses blood rage doesn't it

[thick sphinx]

I'd read it as the latter as well, but the more I think about it the more rules questions that raises

[thick sphinx]

Ayup

Plus give the Homunculus your Speed/Berserk tokens

[elfin ermine]

strigoi can steal str and beserk too

[arctic solar]

I think oddly enough I want to maybe give them berserk tokens deliberately with a painghoul?

idk maybe I am not cooking but berserk tokens can kinda be fake plague tokens sometimes

[thick sphinx]

Pilebunker isn't a bad option, but then you're not taking Furious Roar. Apoplexy-stacking might help?

[thick sphinx]

Relies on them taking actions at range, which... I mean, it might happen?

[arctic solar]

my other idea is rushdown with painwheels before they get an absorb off
ignite a painwheel, run straight into melee, maybe glory kill it yourself before the homunculus can absorb it

[thick sphinx]

Carnifex + Warlord can at least chew through Vitality tokens with some lucky rolls

[arctic solar]

pilebunker is so rough vs. 3+ defense
it's like a 50/50 shot of hitting them
might still be worth it even so
ignite yourself, run in, hit them for 2+1 then 1 then 1 from berserk

I want pilebunker to be good but I'm not sure it makes it

[thick sphinx]

That -1D is just so incredibly punishing

[dense stratus]

how does one get extra d in a roll?

[arctic solar]

elevation mainly

[thick sphinx]

Elevation

[dense stratus]

ah

[arctic solar]

a few traits (most notably Formation)

[lethal trench]

elevation, some abilities and traits

[thick sphinx]

For the Warlord, I think Elevation is its only option

[golden wave]

I think that you win here because of order of effects: if a necromancer is slain, they are "defeated and instantly lose," and Devil Impact deals 6 damage to your target and then 6 damage to you (with the damage to you being in a separate sentence from the damage to target).

[patent steeple]

ur not really aiming for higher numbers beyond the def threshold

[zinc solstice]

oh my

[patent steeple]

so rolling more dice is just better to hit percentages

[zinc solstice]

dragon here

[patent steeple]

unless carcass

[arctic solar]

I think it'd be interesting to try and deliberately berserk the homunculus though

[versed ravine]

This is incredible lmao

[patent steeple]

has anyone thought of like

[thick sphinx]

Yeah, 44% chance to hit a 3+ DEF character with a Pilebunker

[patent steeple]

map making the patd way

where when u get into a combat everyone can place down some terrain

how are maps made for other skirmish games btw?

[elfin ermine]

flight doesnt remove the +D from elevation you get attacking, right?

[arctic solar]

it does not

[arctic solar]

to elaborate: berserk causes two problems for the homunculus

1. absorbing foes now requires you to have another foe nearby or you're taking damage continuously, meaning you need to position much more aggressively and can't hang back
2. berserk also drains your supply of strength tokens- either by hitting someone nearby or by hitting yourself

as a result it's forced to play much more aggressively and trade more directly, which goregrinders are good at

[thick sphinx]

I think your best option against Igorri is to just have your painwheels constantly Exfoliate-ing the homunculi to drain tokens

[arctic solar]

the downside to my strat is that uh
igorri can just pick up Stitch Fix

but trading unit actions for necro actions is probably a net positive?

[thick sphinx]

That and murdering the Strigoi as fast as possible. I do not want to see what Regurgitate does if you leave it alone

Painwheel with a Painghoul buffing them sure does hit like a truck. Four damage on a 4+ is a nice chunk of change

[crisp night]

and so it begins

[tired bolt]

lets go

[thick sphinx]

Spine Devil Blade is also a potential, though I hate to lose Furious Roar. Taking guaranteed damage just for the chance to do extra damage to your opponent seems like a bad deal though

(I'm assuming you pay the token-price before rolling to see if you hit)

[arctic solar]

yeahhh

I think if you're going heavy on painwheels furious roar is a must-take

[thick sphinx]

And I think you do want to go heavy on Painwheels

[arctic solar]

so the one thing I'm not sure of- are we talking at dark power 0 or 1+?

at 0 there's no way for homunculus to get armor which is a big advantage for you

otherwise, it might be nice to try apoplexy-stacking

try and get as much strength as you can to just grind through the armor the hard way

[thick sphinx]

Maybe, and since Apoplexy is an action it does trigger Berserk

[tiny fulcrum]

So since a lot of Goregrinders do 1 damage "again" in packets, you spend Strength tokens per damage packet, right?

[arctic solar]

I also do think it's worthwhole just going with the classic strat of Hit Them Fast

[thick sphinx]

So you immediately deal damage to everything around you, potentially using up all your strength tokens

[arctic solar]

yup

[thick sphinx]

Yes

[tiny fulcrum]

Yeah

[thick sphinx]

Ironically, if you have a strength token I'm pretty sure it applies to self-berserk damage

[tiny fulcrum]

I think that's huge

[arctic solar]

it does, yeah

[tired bolt]

oh so they can still deal with armor

[arctic solar]

which is why I think inflicting berserk on a homunculus could be potentially very annoying

[thick sphinx]

So you do not want to use Apoplexy without something around to hurt

[arctic solar]

yeah
you gotta treat it like a melee attack

[tiny fulcrum]

Yeag

[lethal trench]

yeah you just need Strength

[tired bolt]

nice nice

it caused me to bounce off the faction on first read but i see how it is now

you just gotta lift weights

[thick sphinx]

Painwheels are the winner there, since they can trade speed for strength

And Painghoul can give them speed tokens

[lethal trench]

yeah it makes Painwheels pretty scary

[elfin ermine]

I'm wondering about the Abhorrer x Igorri matchup, who needs to be aggressive early if they both want space to stack

[thick sphinx]

Berserker also hits pretty hard, since it'll probably have the strength for it's Rip and Tear to hit for 3

[arctic solar]

I think igorri adapts towards damage probably

and tries to break through with aggression

make some corpses fast

[lethal trench]

being able to use Strength on Retaliation is also still funny to me

[thick sphinx]

My first turn as Igorri would probably be

• Strigoi vomits out corpses
• Homunculus eats the corpses for Sculpt Flesh
• Other, less important stuff happens

By your second activation your death-star Homunculus is up and running

[lethal trench]

Regurgitate on yourself is also pretty amusing

[arctic solar]

I think there's honestly a world in which I use Marriage turn 1 on a thrall to make Homunculus awesome

[thick sphinx]

By turn two you're hoping to be able to copy the Homunculus' tokens onto your Necro

[tiny fulcrum]

My current Goregrinder Theory is you basically exploit your absurd mobility to dive the backline and horribly murder any unarmoured units

[night hedge]

i think that's the point of it tbh

[thick sphinx]

Maybe, yeah

[arctic solar]

the other Big Funny you want to do is Sample Genome on a Holy Body

[tiny fulcrum]

Let your Berserker deal with armoured threats initially

[thick sphinx]

My current list-thinking actually doesn't have a Berserker, which may be a mistake

[night hedge]

everything bar your thralls and pain ghouls have ways to get strength

[thick sphinx]

2x2 Warheads, 2x Painwheel, 1x Painghoul

[night hedge]

and pain ghouls are support units so eh

war heads bounce off of armour pretty hard

so use painwheels and your warlord for those

[arctic solar]

I'm honestly not sold on the Carnifex's Rev just looking at it

[night hedge]

have the warheads dive unarmoured ones

[thick sphinx]

Neither am I

[night hedge]

yeah i have a list where i'm gonna try and use a lot of it but it seems underwhelming

[zinc solstice]

Average Goregrinder gameplay

[thick sphinx]

It's the Igorri Necro and Homunculus that we were theorycrafting on how to kill, since they're kinda death stars

[night hedge]

the idea being that i'd have them all rev first turn then mow down stuff second turn

[arctic solar]

plus Absorb seems to bypass Blood Rage, which is sort of A Problem

[night hedge]

it'll still work vs the necromancer

[thick sphinx]

...so, this is a stupid question. You can't Spin Out through enemy units, can you?

[arctic solar]

you can

painwheel's trait

[thick sphinx]

Ah, yup, thank you

That's what I was missing

[night hedge]

literally says pass through

[tiny fulcrum]

I think you take it as an unignorable threat basically

[night hedge]

that came off more passive aggressive than intended

[dense vine]

God's strongest stitch

[night hedge]

apologies

that's a lot of corpses

and a very unlucky berserker

[thick sphinx]

No worries

[hexed coral]

Yoo, good luck!

[tiny fulcrum]

If the opponent doesn't hit it you Ignite the zerker next round and it suddenly slaps something for 5 damage

And the more you hurt it the more dangerous it is

[arctic solar]

I think I'm currently looking at 'try and deny a t1/t2 absorb, buff your painwheels with Furious Roar, let them go to town'

[night hedge]

blood boil on berserker is great

[arctic solar]

like just deny armor completely

[pine crescent]

Anyone want to do some gruntwork for IsoCON support? I've got a bunch of UI work to do but I also need to format a switch statement for each unit type

[glossy dome]

My big boy doing his best at the mosh (he's nervous!)

[dense vine]

wuh oh

[glossy dome]

Big Fuck comes to say hi

[hexed coral]

things are going

[arctic solar]

whatcha need, I've got an evening mostly free

[night hedge]

i think 2 buffed pain wheels can bring down a homonculus without too much trouble in one turn provided they get decently lucky with exfoliate

[lethal trench]

Warheads can gain Strength through Blood Rage :)

[pine crescent]

I just need the units in a certain format:

                Move = 2;
                MaxHP = 2;
                Defense = 4;
                Armor = "";
                Ability1 = "Brace";
                Ability2 = "Tactial Reload";
                Ability3 = "Scavenge Ammo";
                break;```

Armor should just be "ARMOR", "WARD", or "SUPER"

[night hedge]

oh i completely missed blood rage gives strength

neat

[arctic solar]

yeah I can take a swing at that
do you want traits?

[dense vine]

it seems igorri vs goregrinders is a common match up

[night hedge]

i'm also happy to do grunt work

[pine crescent]

It couldn't hurt, I suppose. I don't have a place for them in the UI yet but if you want to add them however you think they make sense, sure

Oh wait I know where to put them

[arctic solar]

gonna take a swing through carcass to start
also this is not necro yet, right?

[pine crescent]

Hold on let me figure out how I want to format traits

Not necro?

[night hedge]

are we doing the necromancer unit as well

[dense vine]

big fuck(ed)

[pine crescent]

Yeah, necros included

[night hedge]

kk

[glossy dome]

:(

[night hedge]

nah they got this

simply devil impact

[arctic solar]

can... probably do?
might need an example necro as well, sorry
for stuff like optionals / SOUL abilities

[dense vine]

maybe spending half my budget on stitches wasnt the smartest

[crisp night]

does involuntary movement get affected by adverse terrain

[night hedge]

no i don't think so because adverse terrain talks about movement cost

[night hedge]

ping me when you've figured it out, i've got another half hour before i need to sleep and i think i could bash out two factions in that time

[pine crescent]

                Move = 4;
                MaxHP = 8;
                Defense = 4;
                Armor = "ARMOR";
                Traits = "Formation,Hot Clip";
                Ability1 = "Akimbo";
                Ability2 = "Reload Slide";
                Ability3 = "Bullet Time";
                break;```

Traits as comma separated, ACT as Ability1, SOUL option 1 as Ability2, SOUL option 2 as Ability3

[arctic solar]

awesome, can work from there

[night hedge]

cool, i'll start working on Igorri

[pine crescent]

Much appreciated!

[crisp night]

one other question does adjacency go in diagonals

[arctic solar]

okay actually second question
you've got 'Ability X' being the upgrade, correct?

[crisp night]

i know melee attacks dont

[arctic solar]

do you want the actual ACT abilities?

[elfin ermine]

I like chop doc on stitched or low health character, make corpses + buff homunculus, then eat

[naive glacier]

man you guys have played so much of this game in 2 days lol

[patent steeple]

you shouldve expected this from us tom, we're absolute gremlins

[pine crescent]

I'm not sure what you mean?

[crisp night]

and also this game is awesome

im finally playing my first game and my friend already hates deadsouls

[pale echo]

tom you have to stop making games that are good

[arctic solar]

In your example, you don't have OL45 or Baton

[dense vine]

Look this was being posted when i started getting into the locked tomb and released when i started getting into fire emblem

i was cursed from the start

[pale echo]

we can't keep it up

[arctic solar]

do you want those similarly to the triats?

*traits

[pine crescent]

ohhh

crud

[arctic solar]

there's a variable number of em unfortunately

2-3 for most enemies

[frigid lark]

Line/splash has friendly fire?

[arctic solar]

hits allies

[frigid lark]

Gotcha

[pine crescent]

Oh I've got the upgrades as abilities in the sample

[arctic solar]

yeh

do you want like

Abilities = "OL45,Baton"

and rename ability1/2/3 to upgrade1/2/3

(carcass done, moving on to goregrinders)

[pine crescent]

                ActAbilities = "QL45,Baton";
                Upgrades = "Brace,Tactical Reload,Scavenge Ammo";

[arctic solar]

👍

[pine crescent]

SoulAbilities = "Reload Slide,Bullet Time";

We can keep it simple because I'm not planning on putting mechanical descriptions in the UI

[glossy dome]

good grindin

[arctic solar]

okay last question for real(?) this time
you want these?

done with carcass other than that

[crisp night]

hey question for everyone, if this grazes does the splash still go off

[arctic solar]

it does not

[pale echo]

The only thing that happens on graze is 1 damage

(which can get juiced w/Strength tokens)

[crisp night]

ok ok ok

thanks

my walls remain intact :D

[magic basalt]

<S.P.I.N.E.L.O.C.K>

House: CARCASS
Malice: Spite (0) | Unit Limit: 5

[Units]
1x  EGIS Weapon
2x  Enforcer
1x  Ammo Goblin
1x  Barrelform

[Necromancer]
Operator <Warden>
Bonus Trait: Clutch Reload

[ACT Upgrades]
Armor Lock

[SOUL Upgrades]
Overwatch
``` carcass defensive build. I love to stay in a spot and never let anyone into my spot

[tired bolt]

what would you do if someone spread plague throughout your spot

[magic basalt]

:^(

cry,

[pine crescent]

not for now

[tired bolt]

lmao

[crisp night]

thank god i just killed their penitent really fast

no doom clearing for me

[night hedge]

moving on to abhorrers

[crisp night]

do enemies count as los blockers

for that matter, do allies

[arctic solar]

moving onto gargamox

[pine crescent]

oh I don't know why I put a colon instead of an = in the soul abilities, should look the same as the others

[hexed coral]

I’d figure they would? Like. It’s difficult to see a dude behind another dude

[umbral cipher]

not sure about this unit but also stumped for ideas on em

STRING WITCH
Rickertock Freak
MV 4 HP 4  DF 4+ ARM -
Traits:
Ghoulcore
ACT Abilities:
Baleful Gaze (Curse, Range 3)
Unit takes 1 Curse damage and (+4) 1 Vulnerable
Weave (Range 3)
Target unit Steps 1 and gains 1 Vitality (+4) as well as another unit in Range.

[arctic solar]

deadsouls time

[hexed coral]

DEADSOULS SWEEP

[crisp night]

do hazards overwrite adverse terrain or no

[granite karma]

I have plans that I cannot share right now or the haters will sabotage me

[elfin ermine]

💀

[arctic solar]

deadsouls done

[autumn gale]

Has anyone found success with the slime? I don’t really understand it just by reading.

[pine crescent]

becs already did Abhorrers and Igorri, so that might be all of them

[arctic solar]

yeah

[rocky stump]

@queen nebula check this out

[arctic solar]

what sort of tokens does rickertock focus on? I think freaks tend to do token stuff

also I think a string witch should have an ability that can push or pull enemies around

[crisp night]

does vitality negate hazard damage

im pretty sure it does

[arctic solar]

it does

[crisp night]

ok

fuck

[hexed coral]

Not in a good situation?

[queen nebula]

YO

[pulsar lodge]

has anyone made token assets

[crisp night]

nah it's fine but it's too early and too close to tell who's winning

[patent steeple]

they come with the download

[hexed coral]

Ahh gotcha gotcha. Good luck!

[crisp night]

i have realized though

that if an abhorrer dies in a hazard they get stuck in an eternal loop

which is really funny

even if they miracle they just take a damage at the start of their turn

[hexed coral]

Oh haha that's funny

Got our counter

[pulsar lodge]

in the units assets?

[vague elbow]

yee

wait no

there are no token assets, I think they were thinking units

tbh I made the same mistake sorry

[pulsar lodge]

gotcha

when it says unlimited next to thralls, they still take up 1 unit slot (as a pair) each right?

[vague elbow]

yes

[arctic solar]

unlimited means you can put all your points in thralls

[vague elbow]

it means that you can take 10 thralls

the correct amount

[pulsar lodge]

okay so this would be a full team, 1 + 3 + 1 and necromancer

[arctic solar]

this is 3+necromancer

the gunwight's collectively take up 1 point per 2 of them

[vague elbow]

yeah you need 1 or 2 more units depending on if its 2v2 or 1v1 respectivly

[pulsar lodge]

1 v 1. Thought Scion was worth 3 by itself?

[brittle otter]

The number in brackets is the limit of that unit type, not the cost

[arctic solar]

no

[pulsar lodge]

ohhh

[brittle otter]

The cost of each guy is 1

Besides thralls

[pulsar lodge]

okay gotcha gotcha

[brittle otter]

You can only have 3 scions is what it's sayin

[pulsar lodge]

the boys

gunwights are cute

[crisp night]

how it's going;

bolides suck

[hexed coral]

Looks pretty good on your end but that body is scary

[crisp night]

im just slowly trying to set up a limb from limb up there

slowly

[arctic solar]

deeply agree

[crisp night]

but it's okay

because

so do walls

:D

[hexed coral]

They do!

Walls for days

[crisp night]

i kidnapped that zealot by using cyclopean monolith + kidnap and pulled it directly into one of the hazards

and doomed it to eternal damnation

[lapis willow]

Brawl Arcane 28 offers some fantastic inspo for anyone making boards for in person play - this one is from Gardens of Hecate

[crisp night]

i hate my life

[lethal trench]

Haha

[crisp night]

two units died because of that

[hexed coral]

😔

[lethal trench]

Bolides is a really strong move yeah

probably the best one for Holy Body IMO

[crisp night]

limb from limb has also been doing work though

[drifting heron]

So how do I play igorri? I fuck with the aesthetics

[lethal trench]

get Mutate tokens, get good tokens, use mutate to keep the good tokens for longer

profit

[crisp night]

mostly because my friend forgot you can bodyblock

and i haven't brought it up

[arctic solar]

homunculus rules, marry a unit to it and slap it with Sample Genome

[elfin ermine]

behold! the might of an angel!

[elfin ermine]

stitched or strigoi, maybe even with a chop doc sacrificing the first, to generate some corpses

[pulsar lodge]

when it says + choose one more in the necromancer cards, is that referring to personal choice for customization or for when you have Malice and can spend it

[arctic solar]

your free customization

[drifting heron]

Basically keep good buffs and attack

[elfin ermine]

Homunculus, Soul moves, or Lycan to eat them for buffs

[drifting heron]

Also corpses

Keep making corpses

[arctic solar]

(per page 20/25 depending on numbering)

[elfin ermine]

the Igorri gameplan is partially number bigger

chip away at their threats while keeping your tokens up

[lethal trench]

yeah Mutate just lets you play around with positive tokens a lot, and you can curate the tokens based on what you need

[elfin ermine]

one of their strengths means you can swap gameplan pretty flexibly

yeah

[lethal trench]

Strength to push damage and punch through armor, Vitality to win trades through tankiness, etc

[elfin ermine]

any of their units is dangerous with 3 vitality and 3 str

you treat your units as resources

[lethal trench]

you can also make a lot of corpses, and use those corpses to fuel Spare Parts abilities on Lycan or Homonculus

a Lycan that eats multiple corpses can beef up massively

[drifting heron]

What's the best act for my chirurgeon? New Materials seems enticing

[tiny fulcrum]

You can also spend mutate tokens if you get hit by the corresponding negative status effect

Instead of having your other positive tokens drained

[drifting heron]

True that's nice to spend mutate instead of getting negative buffs

[arctic solar]

this is a bit odd but I like stitch fix
It's got a lot of strong utility and lets you cancel out negative tokens directly instead of trying to add enough positive tokens to go positive

it's also quite nice against gargamox and deadsouls

[tiny fulcrum]

I find Igorri kinda kick Abhorrers in the ass in general

They're the best at killing a Holy Body by far in particular

With that one token steal SOUL ability

[arctic solar]

whoops was thinking of deadsouls

[drifting heron]

Abhorrers don't have thralls right?

[tiny fulcrum]

Nope

[drifting heron]

Are they like a elite army type?

[arctic solar]

every faction is missing a basic unit type

[patent steeple]

yep

[lethal trench]

sort of

[patent steeple]

also cuz theyre meant to stick around long

[charred glacier]

Hey folks, does this ability on Holy Body mean that other units can get the damage reduction from its Vitality, or is it only for abilities that use the tokens?

[patent steeple]

thralls sorta go against that

[arctic solar]

carcass- horror
goregrinders- hunter
gargamox-tyrant
deadsouls-freak
abhorrers-thrall
igorri-scion

[lethal trench]

it's both

[bleak folio]

yea abhorrers are highly specialized

[patent steeple]

my beloved

[crisp night]

@hexed coral kidnap is so stupidly good

kidnap just won me the game

[patent steeple]

abhorrers 😌

[charred glacier]

Maybe a bad place to start my first game but also I need to hang out with the angel

[crisp night]

i think. i MIGHT still lose

but very low chance

[charred glacier]

Sow we're doing our best to angel it up

[hexed coral]

Yo noted okay

[lethal trench]

Abhorrers can be very hardy

Penitent and Holy Body both have super armor

and Holy Body has a huge stack of Vitality along with that, so its really hard to kill

[crisp night]

i would have lost but i cyclopean monolith'd a pillar next to their necro, dragged it through with kidnap into a hazard, doombladed it

doom proc'd since it was end of the 4th round

limb from limb hit so now it has 2 health left

[languid lotus]

rember: there's always reflavoring. call your bound demon an angel if you want. hell, call your pack of ten warheads angels if you want

[crisp night]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

DEATH TETRIS WINS

[drifting heron]

What's the least to most complex houses to play?

[tiny fulcrum]

I legit think everyone but Igorri should ignore the Holy Body lol

Kill everything around it first

[lethal trench]

Barrelform can strip all the Vitality if you get lucky

[drifting heron]

It's basically a distraction unit?

[lethal trench]

but yeah I think trying to hurt the Holy Body is kind of pointless in a lot of cases

though if you don't it just lets them spend the Vitality for Indignation

[tiny fulcrum]

It's a good unit and a legit threat but many factions will have extreme trouble actually bringing it down

Especially Goregrinders

[lethal trench]

no its very strong too

its just so tanky that a lot of units struggle to actually hurt it

it has super armor and starts with 6 Vitality

[tiny fulcrum]

Every Vit they spend is a win for you at least

Abhorrers can be very tanky but their real deal damage dealers are unarmoured

[elfin ermine]

dont even need the SOUL if they run heavy Strigoi

thats a basic attack / corpse powered way to do it

[tiny fulcrum]

If you fly around and murder their Zealots and Inquisitors first their big scaling power is gone

[tiny fulcrum]

Also true yeah

Strigoi fuck

[thick sphinx]

Igorri I think is works really well as a death-star-type build? Just have a Homunculus and your Necro and a bunch of support for them

[elfin ermine]

yeah

[arctic solar]

I think it also matters a lot whether vitality is spent when you use an ability that deals 1 damage to the holy body

[elfin ermine]

theres probably good counters to it

[lethal trench]

also did you mean Sample Genome?
because that one doesn't actually steal the tokens, it just copies them

[thick sphinx]

It is

[tiny fulcrum]

Oh right

[arctic solar]

oh good

[thick sphinx]

Spending tokens isn't optional

[drifting heron]

Hmm I'm liking this playstyle sounds

[tiny fulcrum]

Strigoi steal tokens, that's it

[elfin ermine]

you mean that doesnt pierce the armor?

[tiny fulcrum]

They're a really good unit anyway so

[elfin ermine]

afaik the vitality isnt consumed

if it bounces off armor

[lethal trench]

but yeah Strigoi can also get there

by doing 2 damage and stealing tokens

[arctic solar]

I have now heard both possible answers

[umbral cipher]

I want a focus on debuffing with Vulnerable and a bit of Weak, and have been messing with Vitality as well (but wondering if that clashes with the 'kill allies to activate powerful abilities' mechanic in Recycle)

[crisp night]

bound devil is a really weird tyrant

[tiny fulcrum]

The Typo pass should answer a lot of these questions hopefully

[crisp night]

i've discovered

[thick sphinx]

Ah, sorry, my bad. If, after taking damage into account, you would take damage, you spend vitality

[hexed coral]

Congrats!

[elfin ermine]

it obliterated me as abhorrers earlier: #1164643959721693184 message

[thick sphinx]

If no damage would be taken after armor, no vitality gets spent

[crisp night]

it can put in work in the right scenario but on its own, if you can't set it up right, it just sort of sits there

[elfin ermine]

so like it works

[crisp night]

as opposed to the other tyrants which seem to just work out of the box

but that's okay

small price to pay for baphomet

[thick sphinx]

I think it's not as simple as it sounds, but it is very solid

[lethal trench]

it varies I think

some of the tyrants are more direct than others

[crisp night]

thank you!

[umbral cipher]

Beserker and Egis are very up-front compared to Bound Devil, yeah

[crisp night]

it's just funny juxtaposing the usage of bolides literally every round to having two rounds of my devil just kind of moving around waiting

but i did end up dealing a total of 6 damage to their exorcist through limb from limb

(only 3 really because of fucking vitality)

[umbral cipher]

Homunculous is another bit of an oddball in that it wants to scale itself up

[arctic solar]

Is there WoTom on this? I actually do have the opposite reading personally

[hexed coral]

When the Lamb is beckoned bottom text

[lethal trench]

EGIS I find a little odd personally, but it seems to work decently enough

[thick sphinx]

Let me check...

Nope

[arctic solar]

My read is that both vitality and armor say 'take -1 damage' and aren't applied in an explicit order, so you still spend the vitality

[crisp night]

i'm gonna retool my team to have a banshee instead of a visigheist and change my necromancer's abilities a little

[thick sphinx]

Definitely needs some clarification then

[crisp night]

the gheist didn't quite do enough to justify it over another source of wall creation + having line offense

[charred glacier]

Alright y'all, where do I find the Icon terrain markers?

[arctic solar]

I think that you have to spend the vitality for the same reason you can use strength or vuln tokens to break through armor

[primal nest]

I do have a google drive of some

Bwuh

[charred glacier]

oh this Fucks!

[thick sphinx]

That makes a certain kind of sense, but it's also kinda feelsbad to spend vitality when you don't actually need to

[primal nest]

Thanks!

[elfin ermine]

I dont like how it encourages throwing your weakest moves into vit

turns into into a bit of a gremliny knowledge check

[arctic solar]

The alternative seems to be that the holy body requires you to deal approximately 9 instances of 2 damage (or 3 instances of 3 damage) in order to defeat it, unless it actively helps you out

[arctic solar]

this is fair

[primal nest]

I do need to get around to updating them. But right now necro art comes first

[thick sphinx]

I think the intent is to be spending the vitality tokens rather than using them to keep the Holy Body alive, but yeah it's tanky as hell

As has been said, I think you ignore it completely in any non-Igorri matchup

[arctic solar]

I think that sounds like a pretty rough dynamic, especially when it's a Tyrant and has massive ability to be used as a mobile wall

[thick sphinx]

I mean, it's not like you take Attacks of Opportunity from it, and it's offensive output is... fine, I guess? High enough to hurt, but it's not an offensive powerhouse

[proven citrus]

I was playing 4D chess with deadsouls today but I was wondering. Doom is useless after turn four yeah?

[crisp night]

there are some acts that get benefits from doom

[arctic solar]

can trigger some stuff but no inherent effects

[crisp night]

which is what won me the game today lol

[thick sphinx]

I'm not gonna say it's not a problem without a lot more data, but I'd want the data before I said it's a problem

I do think it's ending most games alive, and it's ability to just pop scum, in particular, is a touch ehhh?

[proven citrus]

Gotchya

[crisp night]

still good to try and proc

[hexed coral]

Doom is useful, even after 4

[arctic solar]

that's definitely fair but the thing I sorta fumbling at is less "the Body is a problem" and more "I think that the Body would not have been written as-is if the interaction was that armor protects vitality tokens", which I admit is sorta trying to infer Tom's intent through a crystal ball

[proven citrus]

It was a bit of a slop team as me and a friend were testing waters

[crisp night]

this is the most useful factor imo

this upgrade is veeeeeeery good

if you can get it to work

[hexed coral]

To the slaughter slaps

[tame matrix]

Where do you draw range from on Tyrants? Any square?

[proven citrus]

2 sets of sacrifices, a chosen, a banshee, and a bound devil

[crisp night]

death toll is alright but i try to stay away from rng upgrades if i can help it

and im sure strong pact is also useful but matchup dependent

to the slaughter just seems like the best upgrade for most situations for BD

[hexed coral]

^

[umbral cipher]

Hmm, maybe I should put a focus on Slow over Weak...

[thick sphinx]

It's a fair concern, 'cause it is basically unkillable if it's not actively spending those vitality points. And you might get enough value out of Bolides that you don't feel the need to spend the vitality tokens

[arctic solar]

I think bolides are pretty cracked fwiw

[thick sphinx]

If I was gonna suggest changing anything it'd be nerfing Bolides a touch

[crisp night]

bolides are extremely cracked

all of the deaths on my team were due to hazard damage

today

[arctic solar]

Yeah

[tiny fulcrum]

The fact Bolides don't spend Vit tokens but are stronger than Indignation is a problem for sure

[arctic solar]

we haven't even gotten into ablutions which I suspect is also pretty damn good

[crisp night]

how often did you use cyclopean monolith in your game(s)

i'm curious

because i spent every single soul point i had on it

[umbral cipher]

I think it's hard to comment on how strong Abhorror stuff is with only like, a few days of the game existing

[crisp night]

being able to erect clutch walls and use it for a kidnap or to circumvent/delete hazards for my necro was extremely good

or to fuel limb from limb

[thick sphinx]

Oh it absolutely is (especially with Holy Font) but I think it's how you're meant to be spending your vitality tokens

[umbral cipher]

Maybe we'll figure out some Perfect Counterstrat with goregrinders or something

[thick sphinx]

Oh, absolutely

[arctic solar]

very valid
Again, my thesis is less "body op" and more "I think HB would have been written differently if armor protects you from losing vitality tokens to chip attacks"

[tame matrix]

Does that mean that functionally any minimum range 2 act on a Tyrant can still target an adjacent square since they can draw it from one of their non-adjacent squares?

[umbral cipher]

Armour does protect you from that, I thought

[arctic solar]

yeah but you could take splash

[tame matrix]

Fair enough I suppose

[arctic solar]

My belief is that it doesn't-I think that if armor alone is able to soak the hit, you still spend a vitality token

Which is not currently the consensus opinion

[crisp night]

afaik spending positive tokens isn't optional

[lethal trench]

I think Bolides being so good is the main thing that makes Body strong IMO

[arctic solar]

And no word of tom either way

[crisp night]

though it's a question of like

[lethal trench]

Hazards are just really powerful

[crisp night]

does vitality calculation come before armor

that's important for abhorrers in general also because of penitent

[elfin ermine]

Hazards in general are strong

[thick sphinx]

That's the topic of discussion

[cobalt junco]

right, conceptually if armor is soaking, you're not really taking damage

[arctic solar]

I think it's a also a question of, like, does strength calculation come before armor? Does vulnerable come before armor
Vitality seems like it should work the same way
I think it's all simultaneous and you can 'waste' tokens

[elfin ermine]

Hazards are even brutal against abhorrers, breaks miracle

if you cant slap VIT back on

[thick sphinx]

I could see armor applying first (reducing strength to 0) and then strength bumps it back up again

[arctic solar]

If you have a weakness token and hit someone with a vitality token with a 1 dmg ability, what gets discarded?

I think it's all one step and both are lost

Waste can happen

[thick sphinx]

A very good question

[tiny fulcrum]

I think the resolution def needs to be clarified

[thick sphinx]

My instinct is to say negative -> armor -> positive, but that's completely unsupported by the rules and just my natural inclination

[arctic solar]

(Gonna back off before I get heated)

[thick sphinx]

Actually, I just changed my mind

I think you're right Sol

[arctic solar]

o

[thick sphinx]

Specific thought that changed it was that tokens are only discarded after damage is resolved. So every token that could apply does (along with armor), then all that applied are discarded.

[arctic solar]

I'm following, yeah

That makes sense. I think the position of the rules has to be that 0 damage is still damage- otherwise, from an overly-literal reading, if vitality tokens reduce damage to 0, you don't discard any.

[thick sphinx]

Makes sense to me. Hopefully it gets fully clarified come the errata

[umbral cipher]

My stance is on the other way around, but, yeah we'll see

[opaque socket]

My stance on the other hand, only turns on when the round number is odd

so you'll have to wait for it

[arctic solar]

oh shit

[tiny fulcrum]

I do think if it works how Sol is describing it makes smaller damage factions a lot fairer into Abhorrers and Igorii

Which is good

[crisp night]

i played it that way earlier and i probably would have lost otherwise

[thick sphinx]

Snort

[tiny fulcrum]

Damn

[umbral cipher]

Meanwhile I'm stuck on trying to quantify the role Scions fill in a house roster

[arctic solar]

They're, like...melee specialists?

But bulkier than thralls

But...less bulky than tyrants?

[warped mirage]

you take a scion if you want necromancer...2!

[umbral cipher]

They tend towards being bulky melee 'everyman' units

[arctic solar]

Idk actually

[umbral cipher]

But that's a broad category

[tiny fulcrum]

Scions are everyman units that fill holes in the roster imo

[patent steeple]

whats the classification

for every unit class

[arctic solar]

Enforcers are really clear in how they fit into Carcass

[tiny fulcrum]

Eg. CARCASS Enforcers are very important for providing a bulky frontload that can peel for the ranged units

[crisp night]

scions just kind of do whatever they need to do

[thick sphinx]

Melee beatstick / frontliner is how I had them pegged.

[cinder isle]

enforcers are like

[tiny fulcrum]

Some of them are odd tho

[crisp night]

chosen aren't tanky but they have an incredible amount of utility

[cinder isle]

"niche-enforcers", yeah?

[tiny fulcrum]

Still don't know what a Carnifex offers over Grinder units

[arctic solar]

Non-enforcer scions are a little less clear to me honestly in terms of their rolw

[crisp night]

actually nah pretty much every enforcer but chosen is tanky

[umbral cipher]

Thralls are swarmers and chaff
Freaks are supports and debuffers
Hunters are ranged killers and aids
Horrors are fast and dangerous melees
Tyrants are The Big Uns

[arctic solar]

Scions are The Dudes

[umbral cipher]

Scions are kinda just Big Thralls in their role

[opaque socket]

Scions usually play into the faction they're in as a like, faction mechanic enabler

usually

[cinder isle]

scions are your like

[crisp night]

rottens ave 4 health and armor. that's pretty buff

[cinder isle]

workhorse unit, I think

[arctic solar]

Rotten are honestly very-yeah

[thick sphinx]

...I just realized that the Rotten hits like friggin Truck-kun

[umbral cipher]

Yeah, they kind of embody their house while being longer lasting than a Thrall

[warped mirage]

like i meant what i said when i said they were necromancer 2. they seem to enable you to spend 2 turns a round running your tricky gameplan instead of just 1 with the necro

[arctic solar]

rotten are like...frontline AoE?

with rotblade and pustulate to spread damage and plague

[umbral cipher]

Mmm. I'll come back to designing a Scion after the rest of the crew, see what they might need to 'fill the hole'

[arctic solar]

Do you have a doc somewhere?

[thick sphinx]

The Rotten feel like the Mox's answer to all things hard-to-kill

Rotblade + Plaguebearer is a very pretty amound of damage

[arctic solar]

Rotten are actually pretty nice 'direct plague infliction'

Pustulate and vomitous mass to spread plague, slow tokens to slow things down

[crisp night]

and they have a big lead pipe

don't forget the big lead pipe

it's essentia

l

[arctic solar]

They're one of the few units that straight-up inflict plague with no hoops

Which I guess does make them necromancer 2

[vague elbow]

how are people keeping track of token numbers on roll 20?

[opaque socket]

Enforcer is there to provide cover and formation
Carnifex are all about being tanky and rushing down folks
Rotten play with infect and play nice with a lot of hazard generating stuff
Chosen plays with basically every deadsoul mechanic lol
Penitent is all about sustain and keeping on being alive while also allowing other units to be alive, also round stuff

[lethal trench]

Rotten just seems very good in general

[arctic solar]

type a number while hovering your mouse over the token