Nebulous: Fleet Command

[wary flame]

why does it even have AMMs

it's a battleship

[glad aurora]

specifically, it's a sprinter full of about 84 decoys and with a nose-mounted radar jammer

guaranteed to make sure your torpedo salvo gets through

[radiant sable]

i mean, s2 amms and manual killjoys

don't you video-james us

[wary flame]

killjoys I can see, but you can cut the entire spend on Actual AMMs unless you are specifically aiming to shut down exactly two rocket shuttles

[radiant sable]

that and minefields

[wet root]

Pull a Tom, beam the mines

[radiant sable]

😒

[wet root]

I do recommend finding the points for a Parallax though, getting jammed out is painful and the backup FCR is nice, even if BBs do like to lose their radar panels

[radiant sable]

i want to have my funny explosives tubes 😔

[wet root]

Do it, bring the asplodeytoobs

[wary flame]

if you're a beam BB, you have nothing to fear from minefields unless you tank a surface trap at close range, in which case nothing will save you anyway

[wet root]

Scout missile around the corner, then cruise S2 AMM to pop the field

[wary flame]

just beam them

if you must bring a ton of missiles bring some cruise EO and kill all the shuttles before they cap naturals

[wet root]

Probably not something that works out 99% of games but it would be so satisfying

[wary flame]

which often means they have to put a real capital ship on said natural for you to beam

I am amazed my gimmick around here has apparently become "sits around and demands people make budget cuts" given I am the exact opposite as an economist

you can get a perfectly lean mean beam machine for 2200

[radiant sable]

i don't want to make a lean mean beam machine, i want to make invincible deathball 6000 and kill everything that we can see

[wary flame]

then the missiles should do something that the ship doesn't

and mine clearing is something beams are already basically the best at the game at

[quiet quiver]

I've been told you take either 0 TCs or 4 TCs for spyglass, either you don't plan on firing on spyglass tracks, or you take enough to get a fireable track from it

[mint sinew]

A good general rule. I've seen 2TC work purely to make ACT[CMD] discriminate from chaff, but that's incredibly niche

[wary flame]

I haven't even had any problems with CMD Val on basic huntress tracks

you can either do 1 ARR, nothing or 4TC, really

or possibly some kind of ARR 5TC monster superradar but max TC spyglass isn't really good enough to hit ships small enough to need an ARR to detect anyway

[glad aurora]

THE WOODPECKER and its 80 CMD torpedoes

[radiant sable]

well

we just got magazine cookoff, after trying to get one for too long on vanilla

[wary flame]

Ocello with gigaradar and CMD S2s is a possible bomber sprinter countermeasure but is gross overkill when MDLN exists

[radiant sable]

rcic/ccic double worked well, we (unfortunately) didn't have any restores to necro with or use to survive through the cookoff tho

otherwise, if we survived, we would have had all 3 beams, both cics, and a surprising number of dc teams

gonna try to shuffle some stuff around and see how shit sticks

[wary flame]

The no restores thing is the usual reason I don't pay for the super CIC, doesn't do much for you when you've become a box

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG 4 Priestess' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

          Cryptographic Error : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar]
               Common Mistake : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
Incorrect Semicolon Placement : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[supple sonnet]

I would try to fit a fourth Ereg on the MD liner

Also puting your CIC in the big slot makes it mroe llikely to get hit

[glad aurora]

I don't think you can humanly fit a fourth ereg while in power

update: yes, you can

it merely takes...

[radiant sable]

remember that your grazer and vls cells will override eregs and the like in power priority

[toxic scaffold]

Oh you can

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'New-MD's' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

       Balor : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail]
      Sauron : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD Sensor]
Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
                           SGM-104 Red Rose Petal : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
                                    SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                 SGM-170 Look out, your Highness! : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [6pts]
SGM-200 Looking for that hull breachussy Block II : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[glad aurora]

one JRR and four PCCs

to get three MDs and 4 eregs

[supple sonnet]

Are those MD liners made out of spun uranium glass? Yes they are but if your getting serious fire as a MD liner your preaty much dead anyways.

Also for the amount of Fracturing blocks you have you can fit them in a CMAG

[glad aurora]

horrible creature

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG 4 Priestess' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

          Cryptographic Error : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar]
               Common Mistake : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD]
Incorrect Semicolon Placement : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun Rocket PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[glad aurora]

(weird note I found out when doing this: the 777 is better in every way but HP than the 7700)

[wet root]

That's usually the case

It's how ANS drives work too

Well, ANS drives have more power on the big versions too

[supple sonnet]

Not all of them? the big Dragon has better stats then the small

[wet root]

Slightly bigger speed penalty but yeah

So I guess "usually" is overstating it

[junior heron]

the big prowler is also much better at hiding

[radiant sable]

it is! the naval office has never found it

[glad aurora]

update: the superradar ocello gets completely fucked over by the jamming sprinter swarm

[radiant sable]

everything gets fucked by jamming swarms

understand: once you take your first shots as a rail/md fleet you have a ticking timer until someone comes over to make you sad

shoot everything before that timer runs out

[glad aurora]

Yeah, average pillars game

[radiant sable]

playing rails on pillars is your own fault

[glad aurora]

then again, shit like this on my team doesn't help with the urge to kill myself

that said, "the superradar has zero jamming resistance" more or less means it isn't a build in this meta

[supple sonnet]

Having a range grater then like 10km is it's own from of jamming restiance

[wet root]

This is why I like Long Hauls on my MD liners

Extends your timer anywhere from "slightly" to "indefinitely", depending on what they send to hunt you

[glad aurora]

I don't typically think I get a MD liner found

I just had the exceptionally bad luck of this team having zero frontline and the enemy team playing two swarm compositions that could easily detach irrelevant things to bother me

[wary flame]

I would probably go with a mere 4TC spyglass so you can actually have some ammo elevators

but the general idea of max buffed spyglasses is to sit outside 10k so they can't jam you anyway

[wicked mirage]

My skull is thicker than your bullets!!!!

<@&942093958551588904> Alrighty, I'm stuck at work and really sick, I think I might have Covid x.x anyone wanna play a game and help me take my mind off being sick?

[tulip vault]

I could nebulous

[wary flame]

I can be there in ten minutes or so

[wicked mirage]

I am Dierope

Also yay!!!

I'm in Activity 1

[runic torrent]

next boat night is <t:1710014400:F> <t:1710014400:R>

[wicked mirage]

yaaaaay

[sharp crow]

I should boatnight again some time

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ruby & Zwei {BB+Escort}' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ruby Rose : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Gun PD Rail EWar Sensor]
     Zwei : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                SGM-102 Starshard : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-133 'Red Scythe' Anti-Clipper : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]

[quiet quiver]

I like how often I see solly and sprinter nowadays

[glad aurora]

@wicked mirage Still going?

(Also, feel better soon)

[wary flame]

we'll probably still be in lobby in ten minutes at this rate

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'I Am Stable and Well Adjusted' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Scarlet Petal : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
  Crimson Sepal : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
    Rouge Bloom : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
     Flush Leaf : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Vermillion Root : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
      Red Thorn : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
     Ruddy Seed : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]

[supple sonnet]

what's the rpm of that fleet?

[wicked mirage]

About 65 Rails per Minute.

I can get you an exact number here in a sec

[supple sonnet]

for sure! i was just gonna throw our fleet at you, since we managed 68

[wicked mirage]

I'm at 67.1 RPM, yeah I wanna see your fleet that managed 68!

Could you post it here?

Do you just not have any small Eregs?

[supple sonnet]

hold on sorry at work looking for it

i know our setup was almost exactly the same but every ship had 2x ereg and 2x sereg

[wicked mirage]

ahh

[supple sonnet]

the 7th ship had slightly less ammo to make up for points

[wicked mirage]

I see!

[supple sonnet]

i think it was 225 rounds each? about 20-25 min firing time

[wicked mirage]

Ahah!

I think I got it, this has 68.4 RPM

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'I Am Stable and Well Adjusted' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

      Red Thorn : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
     Ruddy Seed : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
  Scarlet Petal : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
  Crimson Sepal : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
    Rouge Bloom : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
     Flush Leaf : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Vermillion Root : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]

[wicked mirage]

Thanks Sylv

[supple sonnet]

[wary flame]

the polish are back

[quiet quiver]

Seems alright

[wicked mirage]

xD

[noble zodiac]

I Am Stable And Well Adjusted
one of the fleet names of all time

[junior heron]

as opposed to I am STABLE and Well Adjusted

[glad aurora]

that's a surrender torpedo fleet

[wary flame]

first few tests of Robocop have gone very well

solo CL actually does quite well in the current environment of small stuff everywhere and plas-100 bulkers restricted by 450 dakka

[wet root]

Robocop?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Misc - Robocop 0.21' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

            Overblown Cop Memoirs : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
Valour of Honorable Gallant Glory : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
                Police Helicopter : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor EWar]
          SWAT Sniper Competition : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 9 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
       SGM-12 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
               SGM-2 EA69 Killjoy : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
              SGM-H-202 Laminar-B : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
              SGM-H-202 Laminar-C : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [11pts]
             SGM-H-203 Vortex-Y.A : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
          SGM-H-203 Vortex-Y.A II : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
             SGM-H-203 Vortex-Y.B : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [11pts]
          SGM-H-203 Vortex-Y.B II : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [11pts]

[wary flame]

two solo CLs, one bomber wing

if the bombers poke out the eyes of the various mass driver fleets and maybe even gank the bulkers, there's not a ton that they can do about the vauxhalls running everywhere

run in support of a real capfleet, then once the small stuff is dead you can use the vauxes to pour fire into the flanks of bulkers and ocellos

[wet root]

I should steal those Sprinters, I have a similar fleet except one of the Vauxes is a home defense Beamstone, but I went too cheap on the Sprinters

[wary flame]

the missiles aren't my design, I will be swapping a few for cheap bombs so I can buy blankets for the CLs

but they work well

first game I got a couple of tugs, a shuttle and an MD liner, second game I got a tug, a shuttle and a CLN

[wet root]

Hmm, I should see if I can scrape together the power budget for a Spotlight + Blanket Sprinter, cork Gales seem good for small stuff hunting

(Need to make sure a pair of cork Gales breaks a Pavise but I think they should)

[glad aurora]

One MD liner got eaten by the vauxen, I believe, and I got the other with the traditional method of "just huck three S3H at it and it'll immediately explode"

then again, I also killed Greg with three hybrids, so, y'know.

target priority

[wary flame]

My kill was S2H spam, vauxes were busy, but I do really like that this fleet offers three individually deadly maneuver elements

[supple sonnet]

cork s2's generaly do preaty good vs 20mm in our experince

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) (Need to make sure a pair of cork Gales breaks a Pavise but I think they should)

[wet root]

Idk if the cork gales provide anything fishtails don't actually

[wary flame]

don't have to worry about tugs outmassing your cap corvs when you have CL cover everywhere

and they can clear minefields while preventing anyone rushing up on your beam DDs

[supple sonnet]

real terminals like pervent your misses from clustering near the bow of a ship, if we understand how fishtais and min ange aproch works

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Idk if the cork gales provide anything fishtails don't actually

[wet root]

That's probably true for CMD fishtails, not sure if the ACT[CMD] ones have the same issue

Need to test that

[wary flame]

I can afford the blankets if I take 24 S2H and 16 weave S2s rather than 40 S2H of varying quality on the bombvettes

might be worthwhile, although the lack of pavise pen is a bit worrying

can still use the vortex if I take care with the load order

[wicked mirage]

Cheap cruise S2's are good for greed-checking the naturals at the beginning of the game

Can also chuck them at EWR Elint LOB's

[wary flame]

if I made them cruise they would have to be not-weave

hmm

[wet root]

How much value does Weave provide against Pavises nowadays? Haven't tested since the accuracy fix

[wary flame]

you need cork for proper protection, it's why I'm considering taking maybe 8 basic cruise bombs to chuck at naturals now

leaving 32 missiles for direct firing at people as per normal bomber doctrine

[wary flame]

OK, sweating to actually get the winrate to 75% for real now done, time to play memes for a whole bunch of games

[tulip vault]

you gotta bring the wasting disease ocello

[forest star]

double liner

[wary flame]

good line from the neb server

[tulip vault]

Lmao

[forest star]

lol

[wet root]

Time to build a fleet with one of each hull except ConL?

I don't actually think that's necessarily a terrible fleet, though the Liner and/or 'Cello will be thin

800 point Liner, 1400 point Ocello, 450 point MN, 250 point Tug, 100 point Shuttle? Seems doable

[toxic scaffold]

A rework of an old fleet concept that used to be decent, now with no intel.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Try-And-Run' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Prince of Pestalance : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD Sensor EWar]
      Knave of Mercy : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Plasma Gun]
      Knave of Peace : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Plasma Gun]
      Knave of Blood : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Plasma Gun]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[night fable]

Alright, lab rats, it's Friday, and that means it's time for more Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! I'm hosting open multiplayer games on my Twitch channel below - anyone is free to join!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[supple sonnet]

9.67rpm across 7 ships gets us 67.69 rails raining down a minute

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Keystone Sniper KER' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Eight of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Sensor]
 Page of Pentacles : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
    Nine of Swords : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
       Two of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Queen of Pentacles : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
    Five of Swords : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
      King of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Keystone Sniper KER' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Eight of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Sensor]
 Page of Pentacles : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
    Nine of Swords : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
       Two of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Queen of Pentacles : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
    Five of Swords : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
      King of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]

[glad aurora]

I don't think the Bullseye actually does anything for you unless someone gives you the track, so you can get two more small eregs for the same price

[radiant sable]

that,,,,, is true

[glad aurora]

There is a theoretical further maximum RPM

[radiant sable]

10.49 on 2, 9.67 on 5 gets,,,,,,,

69.33rpm

[glad aurora]

You have found the theoretical maximum RPM, and every one of its digits is a multiple of three

Congration

[quiet quiver]

For when your tug has a few missiles but no budget for a VLS-1

[quiet quiver]

Spotted this beast in the wild, along its twin that had 1 less aurora for a bullseye instead. Very unfortunate for the surrender CL that went up against them

[supple sonnet]

[quiet quiver]

Also the Vauxhalls have caught wasting disease (this fleet had 3 of them and a Sprinter)

[supple sonnet]

what in the godsdamn,,,,

[quiet quiver]

Oh no, didn't realize the surrender CL had S3Hs... only 30 shots total, 2 hits

A shuttle also got beamed by a drive-killed DD b/c it ran in front of it, what a match

[oak shell]

The backpack TLS really makes it

[glad aurora]

that is the total equivalent firepower of two sprinters

with less PD

[quiet quiver]

It's closer to two Raines, TBF

Oh I also caught sight of hot launch s1 offensives being fired so close they couldn't maneuver and looped back into the firing ship

[wary flame]

120/250 broadside BB

interesting if a little silly

also it has all small drives and a prowler, because middie gaming, but it looks cool

[supple sonnet]

🛳️ ⁉️

[dark dawn]

What in the goddamn

[wet root]

🚢 🚫

[wet root]

(Poke)

[glad aurora]

oh right, we're boating

I need to finish my hypergreed fleet

[forest star]

boat night! I'll actually be able to join this one!

[quiet quiver]

<@&942093958551588904> Okay boat night channels open! (My client doesn't want to move them though)

[runic torrent]

whoops sorry guys

[junior heron]

I will not be there today, have fun!

[noble zodiac]

@ ilkay (mildly cursed thing i found that feels relevant to y'alls' fleetbuilding shtick)

[supple sonnet]

😂

[lime jungle]

'Hunter Sprinter' is a 'Sprinter' class Corvette that costs 560 points.

[radiant sable]

can you fit two drives in a sprinter?

[wet root]

Sadly nope

[glad aurora]

if you could, we'd have 2x mk62 whiplash/raider sprinters

which is absolutely terrifying

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Misc - Robocop 0.31 (Basic)' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

            Overblown Cop Memoirs : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
Valour of Honorable Gallant Glory : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
           SWAT Competiton Winner : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor EWar]
              Gold Medal (Edible) : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
       SGM-12 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
               SGM-2 EA69 Killjoy : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
                SGM-288 Whirlpool : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [9pts]
             SGM-H-266 Flakskip-A : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[rigid bison]

vauxes are catching mount underuse syndrome 😔

[glad aurora]

First it spread from Ocellos to Axfords, then from Axfords to Vauxes, and from Vauxes to Solomons, and then metastatized within the Vaux community

My God, something needs to be done about this

Look at it, it's two sprinters glued together

[wet root]

Isn't that 4 mk62s and a Bullseye? That's a fairly normal 120 Vaux, no?

[quiet quiver]

The real reason why we need the Mk63

[rigid bison]

^

I just want another C3 option

[oak shell]

Another C3 option would be welcome

[wet root]

I want an anti-Bloodhound: a long-range, small angle spinal jammer

[glad aurora]

you just want the Keystone Device to be a thing

(so do I)

[wet root]

I do

[rigid bison]

spinal comms jammer to counter mineships would a fun option too

[quiet quiver]

Is hangup insufficient? I've never tested

[supple sonnet]

it's theoretically possible, but it's,,,, incredibly difficult at best, nigh-impossible at worst

you're better off just shooting them to try and take out the antenna

[wet root]

You need a lot of comms jamming to make mines target their mothership, IIRC

[glad aurora]

I took out about 70% of the greed

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG Empress' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Sunlight Shard : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Beam Gun PD Sensor]
Moonlight Shard : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Beam Gun PD Sensor]

[glad aurora]

I am fairly sure that projecting a ~7km "remove thyself from my presence" zone around two caps is a valuable fleet niche

[wet root]

The remaining 30% greed being the lack of Interruptor + jamming?

[glad aurora]

Precisely

[wet root]

I do like the fleet though, should chew through anything in range

Might want a bit of 120 AP in case of Ocellos

[glad aurora]

Yup, after encountering a cargo feeder swarm I grabbed 400 rounds of 120 AP on each

[supple sonnet]

120 AP won't do jack shit to a MN

[wet root]

(45cm pen vs 48cm armor)

[glad aurora]

😔

welp, just for Ocellos it is, then

[wet root]

It's occasionally helpful against bulkers too

[supple sonnet]

yeah it's good for diggin deep into there guts to like hit thigns that HE has not managed to reach.

[wet root]

If they're bow- or stern-on

Or just at a weird angle

MNs will be a problem for you in general outside of 5k, but the beam works wonders

250 AP isn't phenomenal at dealing with them, it mostly chews up the casemate

[glad aurora]

Last game had a plas/100 monitor swarm and a set of 450 LNs, which was certainly an Experience

that said, they did their intended jobs

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocello Escorts ACT(T)' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Lid of Sayer : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]
Hula and Hunk : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]

[glad aurora]

Doubt you need RRFs here - if you're dealing with reactor crits that you don't have time to repair, you're losing a fight and losing it hard.

[radiant sable]

that's,,,,,,,,, fair

boosted reactors just,,, kind of make us twitchy, is all

[glad aurora]

Might let you do something with the small DC locker (I like double CICs on my Ocellos these days, having been converted to that cult)

[supple sonnet]

Also like small locksers are just kinda bad espicaly for an ocello

And you want a lot of beef in the bow of them like reinforced DC lockers or like aux streaings as they ike kind just eat HE that hits you bow on

[radiant sable]

,,, true, but at the same time, we've had a lot of luck with our crumple zone axford

rapid dc lockers and berthings don't hurt to lose at all, unless we're surprisingly misinterpreting how our ships are taking damage

[supple sonnet]

Yeah but like axfords have more space then ocellos do to have a crumple zone. like IWRC 450 HE can hit the four bow compents if it smaks into the trhusters

and like losing them is not bad on like it's own, but like shells being able to get deeper in is bad

[radiant sable]

do they?,,, hm

[supple sonnet]

yeah like shells and damage rays cna like pass trough gray bits but like not red

[radiant sable]

and they just continue on until they hit something, right?

damn

we might actually have to rework some things on our axford fleet

[supple sonnet]

Or untill they reach there pen dpeth wich like is half a soloman or so for 450 HE

[radiant sable]

right

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocello Escorts ACT(T)' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Lid of Sayer : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]
  Flush Wrap : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]

[radiant sable]

not quite rdcs, but aux steerings are a) cheap, and b) reinforced

[glad aurora]

I should aux steering beef, but I'm perpetually on my "needing PCCs" grindset

[radiant sable]

i mean

[wet root]

Aux nose is a classic, makes Ocellos nice and beefy

[radiant sable]

we also cut out our extra micro

although the whole rest of the ship turns off if the pd fires

well, assuming all 4 fire

[wet root]

Really recommend getting a Parallax in there though, the access to good burnthrough is a lot of the value Ocellos provide

[radiant sable]

oh, true

[glad aurora]

me, staring at my 140% power requirement: haha yeah

[wet root]

I'm not sure it's possible to build an Ocello with good PD where this isn't the case

[supple sonnet]

You can, but like you need to like make it a single drive

[wet root]

FWIW the boosted reactors are pretty safe on Ocellos, because the drive section is basically immune to guns if you're bowtanking, and you're an Ocello, not getting missiled is your job

[radiant sable]

we're also tempted to swap where the interruptor and pinpoint are? but,,,, the internal debate on whether commsjamming or lock-ons are more valuable is still ongoing

[wet root]

If you get flanked they might be a problem but if you're flanked in an Ocello you're dead anyway

[glad aurora]

the sprinter about to launch three torpedoes directly into your drive section:

[wet root]

If you have a Parallax you do get a backup source of locks

[supple sonnet]

I know our doctorin for dubble bubble ocellos is to put both omnijammers in the back but like in our one test wiht the backpack FCR it like held on for like longer then most of the fragle stuff in the bow

[wet root]

If only there were some sort of bshortable PD that could eat torps alive

[glad aurora]

Can the usual Aurora placements reach torpedoes fired directly into rear arc?

Genuine question

[radiant sable]

probably

unless it's dead-on

[wet root]

I think so, the top and bottom ones yes but idk about the wings

Even dead on, those mounts have a bit of depression I'm pretty sure

[radiant sable]

yea, auroras are +89 -5

[wet root]

My current setup is actually backpack FCR plus Hangup on a small slot, for the better range at protecting my friends

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocello Escorts ACT(T)' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Lid of Sayer : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]
 Eager Store : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]

[radiant sable]

had some trouble getting things to work out, but we can absolutely fit in a parallax with a bcic/rcic setup instead of 2x rcic

[wet root]

I would probably swap the ACAs for a third elevator, but this seems reasonable

Oh, how's the power situation if you go small whip big dragon?

[radiant sable]

just barely usable

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocello Escorts ACT(T)' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Lid of Sayer : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]
Lorri O. Maida : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun Rail PD EWar Sensor]

[radiant sable]

the ships run at 155% power, but they,,,, should work

[wet root]

Oh, btw, if you go down to 50 rail ammo then ctrl- or shift-click the +rail ammo button it might let you get extra in

The ammo thing is annoyingly slightly glitchy

[radiant sable]

nah, that's as high as it goes

[wet root]

Ah, alas

What an irksome number

[radiant sable]

nah, it works out

needed exactly 1 point extra on each ship to bring it up to an even 3k, had room for just a little bit more

[wet root]

Yeah, just... 53... it's so uneven

Better than a 2998 point fleet though

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> neb in approximately 15 minutes?

[radiant sable]

in-game rn, hopefully we'll be around then

[dire harness]

be around in maybe 30 if you’re still playing

[junior heron]

barring no dota ping in that time, sure

[wet root]

Ooh botes

[supple sonnet]

we'll be waiting in activity-1

[wicked mirage]

Hello ^^ I'm here, I just can't talk atm. Headset charging.

[lime jungle]

SGT-300 Spinjitzu Cringemaster is a size 3 missile that costs 12 points.

[quiet quiver]

Contemplating the utility of mixing in a few BSSJ into container salvos specifically to protect the decoys that protect the containers

But that might be futile when ARAD is encouraging them to radar off anyway to softkill

[wicked mirage]

BSSJ is kinda niche IMO for containers. It helps vs AMM's and slightly nerfs PDT's, but it's more softkill you have to worry about than anything I think.

If you're looking to play containers, I highly recommend looking into Wake validators and Wake seekers. If you can curve around and get the side/rear aspect of ships it can go a long way towards getting the salvo on target.

As for support modules, decoys are of course helpful vs Defenders, but besides that idk, I haven't had or seen much success with anything else.

There's an argument for Cold Gas to help the salvo get going and keep it together, but that's a whole third seeker you could have.

[tulip vault]

when I bring ships with real PD (and by real PD I do mean 2 defenders and softkill) a solid 60% of the container hits I take are wake seekers spinning around to hit me in the engines when I stop paying attention

[wicked mirage]

Yar, it can be rough to try and defend against. I seen a player called Sakura Fritz absolutely dumpster people with a CLN featuring SAH/[WAKE]/WAKE Containers with a pair of flashlight Shuttles he was able to include by nature of all those seekers and the validator being dirt cheap.

And he was wrecking golds, people who definitely knew what they were doing.

[tulip vault]

It's certainly an argument in favour of actually bringing flares

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, flares only help against Wake seekers not validators but Wake seekers are actually kinda cracked for containers in some builds.

[mint sinew]

Containers having more than enough fuel to drift around again and again is really nice for Wake seekers

[wicked mirage]

For sure!

SAH is a secret sauce as well, it helps against chaff if you can intentionally miss the chaff with Illuminator cone.

[mint sinew]

Yeah, I keep meaning to hammer out a SAH CLN I like but balancing the mag depth isn't a skill I'm used to

[wicked mirage]

I feel ya, CLN's are so expensive and it's really tempting to make it 3k by itself.

If you want another similar idea you can try, I've also seen a build featuring SAH/[CMD] Containers with a Bloodhound Tug carrying a Lighthouse to spot for it.

TRP strikes can do good.

[mint sinew]

That's fun, may kick around a few designs when I'm done moving.

[wicked mirage]

ACT/[CMD] combined with ACT/[WAKE]/ARAD gunning for rear aspect is another idea.

[mint sinew]

What's the prevailing wisdom on decoy maxing at the moment? I assume a few defenders still mulch arbitrary containers even with cheap terminals

[wary flame]

Since they buffed defenders you do need way more decoys, since defenders will start popping them from max range now and they're basically as fast at doing it as proper flak

very feasible to hardkill most CLNs now, I think there's a spot for rocket containers + Act/[CMD] TRP for small stuff because both of those are reasonably difficult to softkill

[wicked mirage]

Containers are pretty fast though, you used to be able to brute force a Defender or two without Decoys with a big salvo after the patch that buffed Container speed, dunno if that's still the case tho.

[wary flame]

depends on the angle and the target, if it's a small ship the defender will just eat everything, if it's larger you can sneak a few in

[wicked mirage]

Makes sense.

[wary flame]

you can always bring more decoys with support containers, it just became far more expensive to do so reliably because if someone covers their ships in defenders you go from needing 12 decoy modules per salvo to 16-20

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, honestly I would suggest that if there's a ship covered in like 5-6 Defenders or with a ton of escorts it might be easier to just search for greener and more explode-able pastures.

And just have less expensive containers

Maybe have a single salvo or two of super gucci stuff for if you absolutely have to brute force something for the team.

[wary flame]

It's the classic "3k missile ship has to kill real fleets or it doesn't really pay back the cost" issue

[mint sinew]

That sounds pretty reasonable. I'd been looking at CLN again as I've been seeing sidearm Axford groups with maybe 6 defenders as total hardkill and that just feels ripe for boxing

[wary flame]

if you could buy half a CLN to have rockets for DDs and CLs I would be all over that

[wicked mirage]

A Bulker with 16 Rocket Containers is kinda that?

[tulip vault]

as a big proponent of the sidearm axfords (when I bring defenders), I've gone up against some quite good CLN players and the containers kinda just... haven't been that much of a threat

[wary flame]

Rocket containers are real standouts also, even a CA or BB will be fully red after you hit it with two salvoes of those and they're much harder to hardkill

[tulip vault]

more often I get owned by rocket containers happening to see the ship first than I do actual containers

[wicked mirage]

Yar, that's something I have also been wrecked by

Nothing says "Hey, slow your roll big guy/gal" like a big salvo of 4R6's coming directly at the nose of your Axford or Solly flank speeding ahead.

4R12's on the backpack of a Bulker are also scary for the same reason.

[mint sinew]

I wonder if manually firing an active decoy forwards at the strike will reliably catch them

[wicked mirage]

Maybe? That could work I think?

[tulip vault]

I've found that firing any active decoy manually tends to just get it stuck in the ship lol

though that should work, I think

[wicked mirage]

oof lol

[wary flame]

Also works on mines

my main reason to bring them

[wicked mirage]

Oh that reminds me, I cooked up a weird anti-mine tech.

[tulip vault]

oh I guess you shoot it into the minefield and then drive into the mines to activate the magnetic thing?

[wicked mirage]

Yah that could work, and would be really really smart if it worked! lol

Probably better than my weird tech xD

[tulip vault]

I still really want to try the railgun sig bloom thing

[wicked mirage]

Oh yeah lol

[wary flame]

I'm pretty sure mine seekers activate pointing the cone towards what triggered them, so you probably want the decoy in front of the mines

[wicked mirage]

Yeah mines fly in a straight line once triggered and it's next to impossible to jam them.

You can decoy them though and they'll curve after the decoy

[mint sinew]

I think the cone is pretty forgiving as I watched a bunch of mines take off at a pretty sharp angle from the triggering ship when testing the sig bloom thing.

I should get actual distances and angles for that at some point

[wicked mirage]

Finally another use for my Rail Solomon, I can use it to spoof mines away from my Sprinter trying to cap the point xD

[quiet quiver]

You’re not the first one to think of that

[mint sinew]

That was how I spotted it in the wild, my corvette drifted a little too close to a minefield and then all the mines ran off into space chasing the rail on my Solly

[wicked mirage]

Great minds think alike? lol

Also awesome Fluffy, that must've been a nice surprise lol

[mint sinew]

It really was, took a while to work out what had even happened.

[wary flame]

New reason to put every mine around a blind corner

[tulip vault]

why is there a rear admiral with a wasting diseased ocello

[quiet quiver]

How wasted?

[tulip vault]

the PD is fine, but it just has 3 T30s as offensive armaments

the monitors it is with are cursed triple turret ones as well

[quiet quiver]

T30s 😩

[tulip vault]

I'm convinced this entire fleet outputs less damage than one obelisk

[quiet quiver]

Go tell them Mk65s exist

And then the monitors don’t need C56s

Bam, suddenly reasonable

[tulip vault]

casemates, on my monitor?

[wet root]

The all turret plasma MNs might have higher output than the 2x turret + casemate tbf

And they automatically angle the armor

[tulip vault]

They probably do

I wonder if it’s worth exposing the drive

(Also I was right a single obelisk outdamaged the 3k of plasma and 100mm ocello + these monitors)

[oak shell]

Obelisk?

[quiet quiver]

Another name for triple threat liners

Plasma 100 250

[oak shell]

Ah thanks

[wet root]

I'm not sure how exposed the drive even is, MNs are fat and the drives small, and with 60 degrees of armor angle you're not getting in there with much shy of 450AP

Apparently even 45 degrees of angling with 48cm armor is just barely enough to bounce 450HE

[tulip vault]

Huh

The more you know

[tulip vault]

Hey <@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like a boat in 15 minutes?

[radiant sable]

we were just about to hop on

[supple sonnet]

fi we can shake out headache by then yes

[glad aurora]

just say no to torpedoes

also

My opponent told me Axfords keep eating his tugboats and shuttles, so I asked how many cap ships he has and he said he just goes to the shipyard and gets a new cap ship afterwards, so I said it sounds like he’s just feeding cap ships to Axfords and then his XO started crying.

[glad aurora]

my fleets will continue to be more deranged until I am stopped

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG Moon' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Quota : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
Ledger : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Missile PD]
Inkpot : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[wicked mirage]

Wooooah-oh I'm halfway there!~ 🎶

[noble zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/rwby-ruby-rose-rwby-volume-9-gif-1084977452612863547

nice

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'House Atomics' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Sensor PD]
Duncan Idaho : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [EWar PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
           SGM-100 Balestra : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
       SGM-H-200 Dodge This : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [16pts]
SGM-H-200 Two for Flinching : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [15pts]

[supple sonnet]

And atemp at a bomber fleet

[wet root]

ACT/ARAD over ARAD/ACT?

[supple sonnet]

Yeah so they don't stage unless they are clsoe ro get jamed

[glad aurora]

update: the abominable creatures actually work very well

[tulip vault]

Makes sense, but also does seem quite easy to softkill

[wet root]

I think they stage as soon as either seeker sees something

It's a useful trick for instastages, since you can get them to stage at 5km by going CMD/EACT

You could go ACT[ARAD] to prevent early stage and be a bit more softkill-resistant

[wicked mirage]

In my testing CMD/EACT seems to no longer work due to CMD "always having a target" and thus never allowing the secondary seeker to take over. I might be wrong though, it's just been acting funky for me.

EACT/[CMD] definitely works though.

ARAD/EACT stages at 5km because the ARAD usually doesn't pick up a target until 3km, so the targetless primary seeker falls back on the secondary seeker that found something.

Setting a validator to Reject also prevents early staging due to jamming unless the validator is also jammed btw.

This lets ACT/[CMD] or ACT/[EO] brute force jamming sometimes.

Though if they also jam the validator then L

I've also been toying with TRP'ing close range cruise ACT/[WAKE] strikes. Basically you have an Axford or Solly with a missile backpack, and you TRP missile strikes into the sides and rear of the ship you're actively fighting while you're fighting it. If they're using their main engines at all they're toast, and if they have to stop moving in order to fool the Wake val then the guns have an easier time hitting them.

Plus they usually can't jam 2 directions at once, so they gotta choose between jamming missiles or your ship.

[wet root]

That makes sense, I don't recall any patch notes that would have changed that behavior so I'm probably thinking of ARAD/EACT (or there was an undocumented change)

[wet root]

This was my idea with ACT[CMD]/CMD containers, the CMD secondary ensures the primary gets close enough to brute force radar jamming. Pretty bad in the Disco Meta though

[wicked mirage]

Unfortunately, Discos are a pain yeah. EACT/[CMD]/WAKE might be an idea though

[tulip vault]

I just had an incredible hekp salvo perfectly grey my citadel mags on both bulkers simulatenously

if I didn't spring for the second CIC it would've also CIC killed them

rest of the ship was completely unharmed as well

[wet root]

Unfortunate for you but also good on whoever brought and got value out of HEKP

[wary flame]

I've seen some good work done with Act/Wake/[Wake], but I need to go test what happens if you put different validators on wake seekers

it's barely worth act validating it now because flare counts are quite low, but I can see Act/Wake/[CMD] being potentially interesting

purely because pointing a jammer at it doesn't brick it

[glad aurora]

MD liner on Salar moment

[wet root]

WAKE[ACT] actually seems to work quite a bit better than pure WAKE even in the absence of flares IME, because ships like to burp their engines, and if you're running unvalidated WAKE there's a 50% chance the salvo will decide to just turn around and follow the disconnected part of the trail

It has major issues if there are multiple true targets in the FOV though, I suspect because unlike with ACT there's no stronger return on nearby targets so it switches entirely randomly rather than mostly sticking to the nearest target

WAKE[CMD] fixes that

I'll once again link this: #1164000873031151637 message

[wary flame]

"ah shit we forgot the warheads"

[wet root]

Hate it when my containers get separation anxiety

[wary flame]

Act/Wake/CMDval might be a straight upgrade on my usual CVAR cruise container cheap spam, I'll see if it increases cost

[wet root]

Cost is definitely one benefit of WAKE[ACT], runs you a grand total of 0.5 points

I should put some 4-point WAKE[ACT] S2s on my sprinters come to think of it

[wary flame]

this game can be really pretty sometimes

torptug run on a stealth bomber squadron, ended up wiping all six for the loss of one tugboat

then all the tugs sat in four consecutive reactor blooms and were rendered useless

[wet root]

Definitely the worst part of sitting in tac view all the time is missing a lot of these views

[olive blade]

honestly I think this one looks really good too

[wet root]

It does, it's a shame it didn't capture the rail salvos being traded though

Those look super pretty

[radiant sable]

thinking of, <@&942093958551588904> anyone up for a game or two while we get laundry done?

[tulip vault]

yeah I could do a match

[dire harness]

how do you play so much ;-;

more than double my games

I don’t think I even have as many wins as your losses ;-;

this is scary

[wary flame]

this fleet is fun

[tulip vault]

3 rail dds and a sidearm axford?

[wary flame]

4TC shore bombardment axford

it's also the spotter

[wet root]

Oooh

[tulip vault]

logical

[wary flame]

took two bulker fleets apart on Canyon

[wet root]

That's mean for anyone who tries to duel you

[oak shell]

"Semaphore Wirefraud" is very good

[radiant sable]

@tulip vault ?

[wary flame]

MMTs have now been upgraded to actually be able to do something against jamming

not that much since arad is only so handy, but it might stop me getting quite so locked out of doing anything to beamstones with blankets

[wary flame]

@sharp crow new dune movie so here we go again

[tulip vault]

Incredible

[wary flame]

not much anticapital punch here but they are Sundrive/Long Haul

because the Kiwsatz Haderach can be in many places at once

[quiet quiver]

The 250 CLs of bulkers

[wary flame]

honestly tempted to give them torp backpacks

[quiet quiver]

When you think about it a CM4 is like a torp

[sharp crow]

very nice, very nice

[wary flame]

the guild does not take my orders (because it only has aux steering)

[sharp crow]

I've had a couple new dune names in my brain too

[wary flame]

sadly I am 40pts over after loading the bulkers to the gills with torps to make up for the lack of plasma

[sharp crow]

Fedaykin Trivia Night/Bene Guesserit/Quizatz Haderach

[wary flame]

oh that's really good

make 'em cheap plasma bulkers so you can fire the water of life at people in purple form

more torps

[sharp crow]

I should steal someone's plasma bulker build and try to play this game again

[glad aurora]

you do realize that you now need two varieties of torps, Crysknife and Gom Jabbar

(possibly also Kindjal, but that one has to be as slow as possible)

[wary flame]

Gom Jabbar was my previous series of torpedoes

which evolved from Ilkay's Crysknife setup

these modern ones are Crysknife blocks III and IV

I suppose I'm due a Ginaz at some point

[runic torrent]

oh my god

[wary flame]

these are Neko's plasma bulkers, they're a bit fragile but if you lead with the 8x plas turret one and it burns off all the armour, you don't really care if it gets focused

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'T30 + Plasma' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

   Grid Final : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Plasma PD Gun]
Pool of Crace : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
   Easy Qualm : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
  SGM-100 Dummy : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-114 H Parry : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]

[wary flame]

good list

mine are a tad outdated

[quiet quiver]

Ah, nothing like a throngler

(8x T81 bulker)

It's a silly name but I like saying it

[glad aurora]

amusingly, since the Spice Extraction Protest Committee is a Sprinter fleet, they can end up fighting against Muad'Dib now

[wary flame]

I think my next Dunefleet will be my updated version of the ANS capfleet, so I can have beams to cut up spice crawlers

[glad aurora]

Muad'Dib, Chani, and Stilgar makes for three beam DDs, and then you can probably fit 5-6 gun sprinters

ideally 6 for 2x3 wings

bomber sprinters are more expensive, so that'd either be 1x4 or 2x2

[wary flame]

I'm thinking the classic setup of two beams, four torpcorvs and two scout frigates, but I need to redesign the torpcorv arsenal so it depends how expensive that comes out

[glad aurora]

the god radar has metastatized

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Effective SSBN Doctrine With Improved Aegis' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Arleigh Burke Flight 3 : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Red Right Hand Finger #1 : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Red Right Hand Finger #2 : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Red Right Hand Finger #3 : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]

[glad aurora]

woe, rail array spotter you cannot kill be upon ye

[wary flame]

I also made a variant of this list, although I have a bit more gunpower

on a megaspyglass Axford you generally want the rear turret because at 10+km you can just broadside and let them have it while changing accel enough to dodge

[lime jungle]

Fleet '4TC Axford and Rails' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

LIBOR Monitoring Enforcement : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
    Sterling Lads Group Chat : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
         Semaphore Wirefraud : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Defence Of Austerian Britain : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[glad aurora]

🤔
I can probably fit the extra rear turret in, though it does take away somewhat from the value of the Massively Reinforced Schnoz

[wary flame]

you'll need the restores anyway, if you take glancing hits track correlators start falling off and going to 3 or below means you struggle to actually hit anything

can report it works, though

[glad aurora]

👁️

Interesting choice for giving one of the DDs their own radar

clearly, this is an unnecessary indulgence and the chaff box I'm giving them with my saved points is already being extremely generous

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like a boat or two?

[wary flame]

might be an unnecessary frontline but sometimes people come poke rail DDs with shuttles

[glad aurora]

I am currently boating, but you weren't in the mood for Pillars

[tulip vault]

yeah I did see lol

[wary flame]

it's off most of the time, I ping it whenever the rails change targets

[tulip vault]

no pillars for me

[wary flame]

I would like to spectate boats while I fill in multiple 20 page forms

[tulip vault]

I am currently trying to queue on ERI Official 5

[glad aurora]

update: the general concept works, the "my team did not bring a single corvette and I had to cap at least one point with my bombardment Axford after my beam DD fleet sat out in empty space and ate 30k worth of containers" did not

[olive blade]

I am shamelessly plundering those next pub quiz I go to

[sharp crow]

my gift to you

[tulip vault]

@noble zodiac caught in the wild

[glad aurora]

ocello wasting disease has gone too far

now they don't even have PD

(no, I'm not joking)
(but this ANS comp didn't have missiles)

[noble zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[radiant sable]

@wary flame not quite an md array, but we took one of our old mdln fleets and gave it a once-over

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Line Broadside DUX-INTEL' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

          Jet : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD Sensor]
The Only Hurl : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD Sensor]
    Slob Wily : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD]

[radiant sable]

comes with absolutely perfect dog (who knows a few tricks), but maxes out at ~30rpm

[glad aurora]

MDLN with its own radar

OUT

OUT WITH YOU

MORE DAMAGE

[radiant sable]

we can't put it on the dog, it's busy doing its own things

we can swap the radars out for an extra ereg and gpc each

,,,,,,, we can just take the dog, but that's,,,,

,,, fuck it

[glad aurora]

two GPCs generally doesn't provide a significant enough buff, limiting factor is the track quality

[radiant sable]

well, that's good, considering we couldn't

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Line Broadside ECT-INTEL' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

          Jet : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD Sensor]
The Only Hurl : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail PD Sensor]
    Slob Wily : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD]

[radiant sable]

instead you get more rapids

[glad aurora]

rapids are very good for letting you flank more

MDLNs need to move surprisingly often

[radiant sable]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and, now our game is refusing to work

and we can't validate our install

[glad aurora]

happens sometimes, restart Steam

[radiant sable]

o7, trying now

,,,,,,, didn't work

also, wait, hold on, we absolutely should keep the radars on it just so the pd works

[tulip vault]

it is steam maintenance time

[radiant sable]

[supple sonnet]

Grazers have EO backup FC... Non R? so like they don't need radar to work IWRC

[radiant sable]

no, they still need the ship's radar to acquire the target, they just have their own integrated fc

same as with defenders/sarissas/etc

unless we're misremembering how those work?,,,,,

[glad aurora]

actually, come to think of it

why are you running all of those grazers anyway

if they pick up a missile track your guns will all turn off

[radiant sable]

yes

which is why they're set to point only

[glad aurora]

🤔

[radiant sable]

,,,,, gods, either all ny'all are gaslighting us about how this game works or we're just stupid

and we're probably just stupid

[glad aurora]

easiest solution:

go to testing range, put them down as the enemy fleet without any active radar

fire missiles at them

see if they die

[wet root]

I think you're right

[wet root]

Yes, that's what you want. Losing guns for 10 seconds to not die to missiles is a very good trade

The cost to damage output is negligible under basically any amount of missiles

[glad aurora]

Yes, I know, I'm just iffy on setting to Point and how that affects your missile defense capabilities, because you definitely can't set them to Area

since that default option just makes your guns turn off at random intervals against missiles that aren't anywhere near you

[radiant sable]

yea, no, they definitely need radar to acquire targets

[wet root]

I think you're fine on area with Grazers on MD liners, you're far enough away and Grazers short enough range they shouldn't randomly sleep you

Easy enough to test though

[radiant sable]

yea, no, grazers didn't fire at all on ECT

gonna delete that one

[wet root]

ECT?

[glad aurora]

I say this specifically because my Grazers would randomly sleep my guns when I brought them on my MDLN fleet - which is also weird, because they don't have radars!

[radiant sable]

we have,,, a faux-phonetic alphabet we use to label fleet versions?

BER
CET
DUX
ECT
FIT
GHO
HOL
IMN
JIB
KER
LUT
MOD
NEO
OCH
PUR
QUE
REN
SAE
TAC
USE
VOL
WOF
XOR
YAN
ZHY```

[wet root]

I wonder, were the missiles on an EWR track? The grazers might have been activating with unlucky velocity inaccuracies

[glad aurora]

17, i'm going to kill you

[radiant sable]

more interesting people than you have tried

[glad aurora]

Good question.

[radiant sable]

but yea, we ways start at act and go down

[glad aurora]

I genuinely don't recall, but I don't think so - from what I do remember, the teammate they were being fired at had a solid track on them.

[radiant sable]

well, except for our axford shipkillers fleet, which started at mod (and was also started before we started that naming convention)

[quiet quiver]

No PD vs no missiles? Really that's just a hard read :v

[glad aurora]

It really was

[late cedar]

Personally, I wonder if we might get fighters in Nebulous. Probably not likely but I think it might be interesting to add them, since some planes in real life are sub killers.

[supple sonnet]

They are to be added in after conquest gets done

[quiet quiver]

It's officially on the roadmap

Yeah

Expect to hear news once Conquest releases, and actually come out some time next year

[wary flame]

well, I racked up three losses tonight, I'll get 'em next time

admittedly one of them we had a blue who brought three corvwings armed with a grand total of six torps each

so that was basically a 3v4

[quiet quiver]

Could still be useful for caps but yeah non-ideal

[hidden dove]

On an entirely unprompted note: As a former Carrier Coward in World of Warships, I cannot wait for fighters

[tulip vault]

anyone happen to know the size of the lyrebird bubble off-hand?

[supple sonnet]

4km

[tulip vault]

huh, so it is

stages arad early, neat

[supple sonnet]

radius or diameter?

Wren (he/they/any) [Ilkay] ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) 4km

Ahh.... fuck I can't remember

I think it's extends 4km from the jammer? wich ever one that is

not that the bubble is 4km across

radius, right

diameter is the total distance across (exactly twice the radius)

Thanks

[runic torrent]

@olive blade i'm pretty sure you could .length a whole bunch of variations on the 'pussy in bio' bot meme

like "M U N I T I O N S I N B I O"

[wary flame]

M U N I T I O N S I N S I L O, surely

[tulip vault]

@wary dirge boats?

wait shit

I am very sorry to whoever that is

<@&942093958551588904>

is what I meant to ping

[arctic magnet]

someone who plays Nebulous should change their name to "nebulous something something" and solve this issue once and for all

[glad aurora]

I am currently boating in killboard

think there's a couple spots left

[tulip vault]

@glad aurora thanks for the game!

that felt like an oldschool AvA game with everyone just sitting dead on the points at the end

[glad aurora]

You're welcome! Glad it came through.

Those two liners on A not having Pavises came in clutch - they got absolutely smashed before they could do more than break the nose on my second Vauxhall

also funny: the endless parade of empty OSP boxes running towards E as I slowly crawled towards the point gunning them down

the Very Hungry Gun Vauxes strike again

[tulip vault]

I come here with a creature born of tartarus

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3.0k - Horrible Double Threat' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

Ewyllys Cythraul : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Plasma Gun PD]
         Damwain : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD Sensor]
Arfaeth Terfynol : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD Sensor]
    Rhagluniaeth : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD Sensor]
           Dilyw : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Gun PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-132 Fflowlyn Block V : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]

[tulip vault]

I don't know what compelled me to make this but it's actually not that bad

I'm not sure it's any better than a real triple threat or plasma monitor fleet

but it does instantly shred the armor of a capital in the first volley

[quiet quiver]

Someone started calling 8x T81 a "Throngler"

It's a legit thing, plasma does do damage too

[wary flame]

I have also seen it called the T648 for obvious reasons

one of those and two regular plasma liners on the cheap can really fuck someone up

[quiet quiver]

(It's only obvious if you can do math)

[wary flame]

especially if it's first around the corner and taking the fire

[tulip vault]

It does do work, but it also does not survive taking any fire at all

[wary flame]

I have upgraded my Axfords with small workshop and DCC and we'll see how much beefier it makes them

everyone else seems to run that as standard so maybe I was being a moron

[glad aurora]

DCC good, not sure where I'd fit a small workshop

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Sidearm Axfords Workshop' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
            Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar]

[glad aurora]

yeah, okay, you put it in insteas of the rapids

hm. Not sure if that's worth it.

[wary flame]

well, it's buffing eight teams by 30% each, which is going to add up to more than 1.5 regular teams

[glad aurora]

Oh, absolutely, I'm just thinking about in terms of "how many components can be repaired at once"

[wet root]

Anyone know the traverse limit on the C30?

[tulip vault]

I know it’s basically nothing vertical, but no clue sideways

[tulip vault]

Im also growing less and less convinced by the idea of large dc lockers on axfords

They’re just like, so fragile

[radiant sable]

where are you putting them?

we put ours in that little,,,, primordial pouch area behind the big gun, and they tend to survive ~75% of the time, provided we don't get ganked

[wary flame]

they're in the lower two slots there

with an RCIC in the top slot

[glad aurora]

huh, interesting

I stick mine in the middle and my rapids down there

[wary flame]

does mean I need to protect the belly but that's easy when you're a dedicated bowtanker

those three slots are the safest slots on an Axford

[glad aurora]

Might've been misprioritizing, then

[radiant sable]

yea, rapids don't care about their compartment being destroyed, you can always put them where you're gonna get shot the most without having to worry too much

[glad aurora]

Oh, I know

I'm just used to rolling over to get the beam on target and getting shot in the belly

they're there because I expect them to get shot

[tulip vault]

Mm, that is a good call, even if I am reticent to move the mag and RDC out of there

Especially given you need two magazines nowadays

[glad aurora]

Why?

I've always gotten by perfectly well with one in a 6x1x6 slot

[radiant sable]

same, we only use two for redundancy's sake

[tulip vault]

I run out of ammo very often on sidearm axfords, even with two rmags

[glad aurora]

Hm, fair.

[wet root]

You use a beam, you probably have <40% of the ammo consumption of a 450 Ax

[glad aurora]

I must be easy on it because I've either got a VLS in the back slot or a - yeah

[tulip vault]

I think I only have 18 minutes of 450 HE, and a lot less of every other type

Not as much as I’d like, but the day I bring a bulk mag on an axford is the day I lose the remaining shreds of my sense

A magazine without the reinforced tag is just so spooky to me

[wet root]

It's also not that pricey to get a 6x1x8 + 6x1x4

[glad aurora]

if I ever take a mag that can be greyed by MDs, shoot me now

it'll be easier

[tulip vault]

Yeah it’s honestly not that bad

I just miss the extra slot

[wet root]

It's particularly painful on Ocellos

Those two extra compartments go a long way

[wary flame]

I go with one big mag and one small mag on sidearm CAs

I don't really mind losing a compartment slot since I can't really afford to fill them anyway on 1500

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like some pubulous?

[junior heron]

sure

[junior heron]

@wary flame the lobby is full

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN BUT LESS SUNNY' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

    The Famed Silo : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile EWar PD Sensor]
   Flint And Chant : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Sensor Missile]
  Laser Designator : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
       Wake Seeker : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
Internal Gyroscope : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
       SGM-113 Buckler : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-351 Ascalon Bronze : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[glad aurora]

torpcello plus scout wing plus designated B point device

[mint sinew]

Can't you make the mags on the tug a bit more efficient? Either shrink the near empty one or upgrade it to an RMag

[glad aurora]

Theoretically, yeah, but I don't think I gain anything by shrinking it?

I may be not on the up and up about how mag pricing works

(rmags also cost Points that I do not have)

[mint sinew]

First mag is free, then excluding your most expensive you are billed by both size and quality.

In this case you have two 4x1x6s so are paying for one 4x1x6

If you shrink to 4x1x6 + 3x1x3, you only pay for the 3x1x3. That should save you 15pts if I remember costs correctly.

[glad aurora]

👁️

Time to go check that out (and buy more AMMs if so, probably)

Update: yep, 15pts saved!

Gave the tug a VLS-1 for the Ceremonial Arming Missile and then bought some more AMMs for the Ocello

[quiet quiver]

Player's ship names are all German names [concern]
They're LOTGH references [relief]

[wary flame]

Vastol?

[quiet quiver]

Yeah

[glad aurora]

local man charges a beam DD, kills it, then defeats three sprinters in sequential 1v1s

[quiet quiver]

Pinpoint T20 T20?

[glad aurora]

Pavise/2xT20

Have to have the Pavise or the sprinters beat you with torps

[quiet quiver]

Right

[glad aurora]

on the other hand, if you have a Pavise and micro your roll so it's always in arc of the sprinter you're fighting, then they can't kill you unless they're a dedicated missile sprinter that gave up their radar to mount double missile bus

in which case you were losing anyway because whatever insane person makes "sprinter with a salvo size of 3" probably has a gun sprinter with radar nearby to spot for it

[quiet quiver]

Now remembering the time my shuttle took a torp and the reactor, CIC, and one gun survived. Unfortunately not the gun pointed in a useful direction with the drive out

[wary flame]

my torp sprinters are part-armed with S3H precisely because everyone has pavises now

making one cheap enough took some work, but they're decent

[glad aurora]

and that is why my gun shuttle wings come in threes

(I lost the first two to killing the beam DD and the Vauxhall that came in to try and save it, RIP brothers)

[wary flame]

some Vauxhall if it couldn't take three gun shuttles

a DD I understand, they're unwieldy, but the CL should be able to melt them

[glad aurora]

Oh, it did

then the MD swarm started hitting it, it got confused, and the last survivor ran away under a rock to go engage in the Sprinter Tournament Arc over E point

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like a pub?

[glad aurora]

Sure, I should be home in the next 10-15

[radiant sable]

we'll be home in about an hour, if you'll still be around then

actually, fuck this, we're heading home early

[glad aurora]

Yep, I'm around now

Ping me when we've got a lobby

[tulip vault]

@radiant sable would you like us to wait for you? or are you good for a potential game 2

[runic torrent]

next boat night is <t:1710615600:F> <t:1710615600:R>!

[tulip vault]

alright well @glad aurora I'm on ERI official 1

[radiant sable]

we'll wait

sorry

[tulip vault]

@radiant sable if you'd like to spectate, I can put up a stream in activity 1

[night fable]

SURPRISE AFFILIATE ANNIVERSARY (TO ME, TOO)
It's Friday, and that means it's time for more Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! I'm hosting open multiplayer games on my Twitch channel below!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[radiant sable]

how do command validators work? do they just automatically accept any given target, so long as you have a track on it, or does it automatically filter out tracks made by chaff/decoys?

[wet root]

You have to track-fire them, then they validate that target only

[radiant sable]

ah

[wet root]

Or as of the most recent update, any targets within track inaccuracy distance of that track

But that only matters for firing off EWR tracks or maybe Spyglass ones

[wary flame]

CMD val is very good indeed for things like ANS torps since it gets you the softkill resistance of CMD without the need to hold a good track

a burnthrough ping from a huntress works, as does a frontlinet rack that usually wouldn't get a shuttle

[quiet quiver]

Burnthrough is enough for validation? Huh

[wary flame]

if you BRN ping the target of your MMT missiles before they pop chaff you can't even get chaffed if they hug it tightly, either

since you have no track on the chaff so the validator can't see it, if I remember correctly

[quiet quiver]

Oh, oh I see (from the wiki)

CMD validators will validate all targets within the area of uncertainty around the track that the missile was originally fired on. e.g, if a cmd validated missile is fired on a track that is being spotted with 40m of inaccuracy, then CMD val will validate all targets within 40m of the of that track.

[wary flame]

theoretically that should be a pain for things like MMTs but I haven't really seen them be chaffed at all

the primary issue with Act/[CMD] is just that it can be jammed

like all validated seekers

[wet root]

Though the reject val change helps

[bitter furnace]

I don't think that's how it works, the seeker will evaluate all tracks the primary can see, and validate them based on how close they are to the targeted track

so if you use an ACT seeker then it'll see both ship and chaff and send them for evaluation, it doesn't discriminate based on what the launching ship could see at the time of launch

[wary flame]

Yeah, I think I described, strangely enough. CMD/[CMD] by accidt

but I've still seen missiles fired on huntress BRN be chaffed about twice total, so I don't think that change did very much there

[mint sinew]

As far as I understand it BRN pings have the same positional error as the base radar. Their inaccuracy is because they don't update.

As most radars with BRN are accurate enough to not validate chaff by default I can see that not validating chaff

[quiet quiver]

I guess it'd have to be tested with frontline

[wet root]

I think Huntress has fairly bad accuracy but you have to have a lot of inaccuracy to get chaffed AIUI

[tulip vault]

...I've come to the horrible realisation that tugs are more efficient 100mm carrier than monitors

like they have other problems, certainly

but they do get more RPM per point

[rigid bison]

They do loose out on onboard Plasma access

[wicked mirage]

Hey guys, I don't think I'll be able to play in Boat Night today, my brain's not doing too hot lately.

[quiet quiver]

Alright, rest well!

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, I'll be there next week hopefully ^^

[wet root]

I'm running quite behind today, won't be able to get the server up in time for game 1

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> hey folks Im opening the boat night channels. now, worth noting, dst just swung into place for north americans

so NA players are like a full hour behind the EU and oceania players in terms of expectations and standard weekend readiness

it's entirely possible people don't really show up for an hour and that's okay

I'll just keep the channels open

[radiant sable]

we'll be around in an hour, if you're all still around then

[lime jungle]

Fleet '4TC Axford and Rails' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

LIBOR Monitoring Enforcement : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
    Sterling Lads Group Chat : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail PD]
         Semaphore Wirefraud : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Defence Of Austerian Britain : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[olive blade]

oh right yeah dst changed hrnm

[tulip vault]

as much of a failure as my tug + throngler build was, I'm really sold on the throngler in general

even if losing one in a 100mm fleet really hurts

[glad aurora]

<@&942093958551588904> who up boating they neb

(that is: pub?)

[wary flame]

will be there in 10-ish minutes, eating dinner

[glad aurora]

In Bananebulous because I will die if I play Pillars or Nyx again

[lone violet]

could i trouble any of y'all to talk me through whipping up a fleet at some point ? i have a rough layout/concept for the ships from chats here the other day it's just how to build them

[glad aurora]

@wary flame went to Miramare if we're continuing

@lone violet Sure, what do you want to do with them

[lone violet]

i think the baseline fray gave me was ummm
"

• ~1.5k ocello (450mm)
• 550pt fancy monitor (plasma/100mm) X2
• 240pt EWR tug
• jam tug
  "

[glad aurora]

ocello should have four ammo elevators and two drives, probably big raider small whip

ewr tug just needs an EWR and enough power to supply it, plus a rapid DC; I like putting mines on mine

jam tug has bellbirds + ARRs

can't speak on plas/100 since I don't know what the buff modules are like for that, but a fancy monitor gets DC Complexes

[wary flame]

there are whole spreadsheets of optimal buff module complements for different kinds of plas-100

[supple sonnet]

2x spinal plas moniters do struggle to burn trough armour fast enough, the T81 ones do seem to work peaty well

[mint sinew]

T81s outcompete C81s until you are really stacking up the ERegs

[wary flame]

not even close

[glad aurora]

I doubt Eight has access to them, so you may want to send one her way (or summarize it)

also, yeah, what a game

I skill issued hard between not realizing the warning was intended for me first and then not knowing how to manually deploy chaff, but that's life

[wary flame]

when I run escort ships for CLs I like to make them sprinters, and part of the reason for that is so I can flank one in front of the formation when I see incoming to get some chaff down

I have lost a few CLs to exactly those, since it's hard for them to slow down from full pelt fast enough to put their own chaff in the right place

[wicked mirage]

If you're available rn I have some time to sit down and help you make an awesome fleet ^^

[wary flame]

yeah, come build fleets

I need to redo half my capfleets anyway

[glad aurora]

After poking at this a bit, I can turn the Keystone Device into two considerably faster sprinters, but said sprinters also have less armor, less DC (which is to say, functionally none), and I lose the disco ball

I'm also not sure how to feel about "Sprinter with nothing but two Blankets and a VLS-1-23" in general

[wet root]

Jammer Sprinters are mostly strong because they can just be invisible

[glad aurora]

I may just take the L on the decidedly uncommon matchup of "rocket containers piloted by someone who actually knows what they're doing engaging on my vaux swarm," since the current Keystone Device is better into the liner matchup I keep actually fighting

[wet root]

Also unlike Keystones they can keep up with Vauxen

[lone violet]

aaa sorry, had gone to bed by this point ,,, i will try and find another time, promise

[tulip vault]

@wary flame I took your advice for getting the good engine block, and apparently it just looks cool as fuck as well

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone feel like some pubs?

[wary flame]

sure, I can pub

[glad aurora]

Which room?

[tulip vault]

not sure yet

I'm in HA hangout though

[tulip vault]

I'm in ERI official 5

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG Hermit' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Ethics of Violence : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [PD Beam Sensor]
   Unity of Thought : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam Gun PD]
Principle of Action : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam Gun PD]
   Virtue of Belief : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam Gun PD]

[glad aurora]

debating whether this is workable

(I can't fit triple FPA without giving up radar, power-wise)

I generally feel that three triple FPA DDs will melt literally anything before they can kill my radar guy, so long as I never try and leave whatever rock I'm sitting behind

[wicked mirage]

All good, I am available again for a few hours rn ^^

[glad aurora]

[radiant sable]

ash, don't go sealclubing the newbies

leave some for the rest of us 😔

[lone violet]

might be on in ~30?

[glad aurora]

update: MNs are not especially effective against the beam device

[wicked mirage]

Oh, could you send me a message or ping me when you're on? I won't see a message unless I get pinged sorry x.x

[tulip vault]

just had a solid 15 minute game of neb

walked over the enemy capital death ball with our own deathball

my throngler got throngled though

[wary flame]

lobbyulous

[tulip vault]

incredible

[wary flame]

@tulip vault in VC

[quiet quiver]

Walk it off

[junior heron]

it died moments later

funny to get sniped

[quiet quiver]

Terrible(?) idea: Cruise ARAD on beam DD so you can fire them around a corner and then pop out while their radar is off

Actually if you're clever with hot launch you might not even need cruise

[oak shell]

Hot launch + the opposite of minimum angle (I forget what it's called)

[quiet quiver]

Free approach

[mint sinew]

Similar energy: send Wake primary missiles from behind to encourage them to stop before you ambush them

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> boat?

[dire harness]

boat :0

where’s the boat?

[tulip vault]

in a pub lobby, presumably

(I'm in activity 1)

[wary flame]

OK, I finished watching the most insane game in human history if you're playing a game 2

I feel that I'm going to say this whenever I hit mines in future

[wicked mirage]

Lol

[wary flame]

@tulip vault ?

[tulip vault]

I'm in one atm but I'd be down

[quiet quiver]

Sometimes you gotta scram and restore

[tulip vault]

misc is a corrupting influence

[quiet quiver]

Sprint mines are a defensive weapon

[olive blade]

honestly I have been seeing the 3k of mines fleets since mines came out

[quiet quiver]

Double sundrive bulk mag radarless mine feeder

[mint sinew]

What I've seen Misc popularise are the 5-15 sprint mine rock traps

[glad aurora]

They've metastatized to one of my fleets

I know I'm a horrible person every time I watch a backcap Sprinter instantly eat shit and die, or an Axford group sit still and RPF them for five minutes, but I can't deny a little smugness about it

Something something sprint mine availability is a personality test

[junior heron]

I wonder if bombs get more rays for chaff

[wary flame]

managed to win a 3v4 against blues with Pyrope & Spedicy

I think that's the good way to not beat up the pubbies

feels like a good points ratio

[wary flame]

<@&942093958551588904> nebbing

[glad aurora]

lobby?

[wary flame]

am in VC

we are going to get turned to soup this game

"I don't use PD" - ocello player

[random grove]

woagh... boats...

I wonder if any of my old fleets still work

[olive blade]

Just hope they don't have missiles 🙂

[random grove]

oh no, none of them do

however

shuttle swarm uh

doesn't have enough power lmao

[olive blade]

Interesting

Not usually the ships that skimp on it

[random grove]

turns out I do have some missiles

but

everything is still 3000 points

which is surprising

I suppose they slowed down the patches since they started working on the er... big map mode

that

whatever it was called

[olive blade]

Big map mode would be a great name for it

[tulip vault]

Probably the huntress change

[random grove]

ah that'd do it

[olive blade]

The name is conquest tho

[random grove]

Right!
That's what it was called!

[random grove]

Hmmm

Well in any case, I've gotta rebuild my fleets, what's it worth having for the fleet lineup these days?

[wary flame]

@minor raven not coming to play?

[wary flame]

in every way this game is just like dota 2

[junior heron]

we should just merge the dota 2 and nebulous threads

and the dota 2 and nebulous roles

[tulip vault]

so true

[junior heron]

for the like, 5 of us who play both

which if you think about it, is both a full Nebulous team (on canyon) and a full Dota team

further proving the point

[rigid bison]

A lot of the good maps have symmetrical “lanes” too

[mint sinew]

Just mod in the dota2 map, either as a stylised version in space or just exaggerate the whole thing as a surface map

[junior heron]

Misc's tugboat killing a 3k 3 raines missile fleet

[wary flame]

I found that fleet in the following match while spectating and it had added a 4 defender frigate, which is just high comedy

[runic torrent]

next boat night is <t:1711220400:F> <t:1711220400:R>!

[oak shell]

I'll be able to make it to this boat night!

[wary flame]

brave shuttle banging on the rock to summon shai hulud (100mm lineship)

people in the neb server have apparently become fully Dunebrained

[tulip vault]

Wait is the ship a liner or is the ship a shuttle

[wary flame]

what ship

[tulip vault]

I think I may be just too sleep deprived to understand this sentence, apologies

[sharp crow]

the dune shipnames are always a hit

[tulip vault]

I wish misc’s old heighliners were still a real build

They’d be a real joy now of days

Shame the state of containers kinda means they can’t be, but still

[glad aurora]

the shuttle (noble fremen fighter), out in the unforgiving desert of A point, encounters an enemy corvette wing (harkonnen kill squad). they beat upon the A rock to summon shai-hulud (100mm liner) to destroy the harkonnens.

[tulip vault]

Ohh okay I see

[glad aurora]

if you think about it, FLANK EVADE is burning without rhythm. in this essay, I will

[wary flame]

also, I got bored of being unable to MMT beam DDs

behold

SSJ S2s for use within pinpoint range

tested on real beam DDs

AMMs are usually suppressed and defenders are usually dodged, just have to make sure you're bellbird jamming at the same time

[glad aurora]

Hm. I wonder if I could make this into torp form for my torpcello

[tulip vault]

Ooh, ssj actually doing its job is interesting

I don’t think torps really worry about amms too much

[glad aurora]

turn up, KILL WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE from outside of 6k, and then use the actual torpedoes on their buddy

[wary flame]

OK, it's a bit fucky, because if the AMMs randomly wander too close then they will acquire through the overlapping jamming fields and usually manage a side-on intercept

if they random-walk away while jammed you're good

[tulip vault]

I mean, sometimes work is better than never work

[wary flame]

I haven't ever lost more than two in a salvo to AMMs

[tulip vault]

That’s pretty sweet

Big warhead too

[wary flame]

not sure about performance against corv defenders but that's what real-world testing is for

[tulip vault]

Honestly I haven’t had many problems with hitting corvettes with s2s

Other than the arad ones

[glad aurora]

To be fair, I do also have a small CLS-3 that just carries four torps sitting around, so I can swap that to a VLS-2 without much issue

I just really need a tool that lets me kill beam DDs approximately Yesterday and without losing my entire ship to it

[tulip vault]

I truly don’t understand why they don’t cork properly

[wary flame]

one of these got hit by about six total but the other two took one volley or less

pretty reasonable

[tulip vault]

I mean a grey beam is a grey beam

[tulip vault]

Oh yeah I guess if you’re just using them as s2s that makes sense

[glad aurora]

Yeah, it's a range thing

[tulip vault]

I was thinking ssj torps, and that feels a little redundant with torp armour

[glad aurora]

If I can have a tool that reaches out and touches someone reliably from 7k, then my job's clear to torp the big things

[tulip vault]

Or wall thickness or whatever it’s called

[wary flame]

if you can program six or eight of these at once you can probably reach from 7km

they are expensive though, 14 each

[tulip vault]

Yeah that is like

S2h price

Pure cmd is a little sketchy but I guess of these are hunting rearguards it’s unlikely they have disco

[wary flame]

can't give them a second seeker anyway

SSJ is in that slot

[glad aurora]

I can program six at once on the torpcello, yeah

Now I just have to figure out how to afford these

[tulip vault]

Clearly the answer is eo

But alas mazer has deprived us

[glad aurora]

update: going from 15 to 10 mines on the mine tug and cutting the EWR let me afford 13 of these creatures

(2x6 salvos and a Ceremonial Arming One)

@wary flame How mandatory is the SSJ over a SACT secondary, by the way?

[wary flame]

mandatory if you don't want to get AMMed by your average solo beam DD