Nebulous: Fleet Command

[tulip vault]

also, you hate to see it

[supple sonnet]

or you could go with 250 spinal, plas turets and t-20's so you can gt them all on te same target

Techhead ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) One plasma turret front, 250 casemate side, T30s top and bottom

[quiet quiver]

Sounds entirely too sensible

Also your HEHC output goes from 39 RPM to 19 RPM

(If I did numbers right)

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> would anyone be up for a pub game?

[glad aurora]

In a bit, lancing at the moment

[junior heron]

yes but only because I was going to bring the Destroyer Device

[dark dawn]

Haven't played in weeks, but I can join for a game or two

[junior heron]

results of the pub game:

[supple sonnet]

so did you kill any ships?

[junior heron]

yes

2 bulkers

[wet root]

Never had to use the HEKP?

[supple sonnet]

we'll be home in about a half hour if ny'all are still around

[junior heron]

never got close enough to

device capture fleet doing work

ah, 5000 of that first sprinter's damage was containers

The Device unfortunately rotated a bit and lost floodlight at the last volley

I feel like my argument for the s1 dump is that you don't lose damage putting the beam into the void of a bulk liner

[wicked mirage]

@radiant sable Heya like Tron said I have S2 and S3 AMM's but they're intended to be used against Torps and S2 swarms respectively. Containers are far too durable and spammable for one to carry enough AMM's to defend oneself from them, though I do have some designs that can be used in a pinch. Tron is right that Softkill+Defender is the way against Containers, but if you'd like I can still send you some designs.

[dire harness]

S2 AMMs were kind of funny back in MMu

used to run a CA fleet with them

[wicked mirage]

Nice ^^

[wicked mirage]

What were the intended target profiles of them? Do you have designs laying around I could look at? I'm curious

[dire harness]

deleted them 😔

basic idea was backpack of BF S2s with EACT seeker

the main goal was to hit pre-staged hybrids

they worked pretty well

the main thing they did was increase aurora effectiveness

[wicked mirage]

Oh fun!

[dire harness]

also had some low range cold launch max maneuver ones for stopping close range salvos

and then some offensive ones for killing stuff :D

[wicked mirage]

I see, yeah I've been considering such a thing with S3 AMM's.

For me though I really don't like regular Blast Frag, but EL frag is ludicrously expensive on S3's.

[dire harness]

oh ya EL is ridiculous

not even sure if the socket scaling effects it

[wicked mirage]

EL frag is 14x more expensive than BF I believe.

For some reason xD

[dire harness]

I’ve just been using a slightly changing 2pt s1 since late MMU now

it’s pretty hard to beat bulk

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, mass BF is pretty cost effective if you have the tubes for it.

[dire harness]

I use CMD for anti hybrid

everything else gets two or three ACT to the face :D

[wicked mirage]

Unfortunately S2's and S3's usually can't field the amount of tubes required to do that, and even when they can S2's and S3's are so slow and cumbersome that you only really have 1 salvo or so to intercept enemy missiles, and BF doesn't pull the numbers to make that viable.

[wicked mirage]

Nice ^^ yeah that's a good way to do it I think.

But yeah the best success I've had with S2 and S3 AMM's is making S2's that can kill Torps with about the same cost and reliablility as S1's, but trading less tubes for a chance to multikill enemy Torps, good for use against big clustered dumps from swarms and bulkers.

And then S3's that can be manually fired to take out a swathe of S2's from a blob of them.

They have to be manually fired though because of a critical lack of tubes and the fact that they're expensive to the point where firing more than 1 per enemy salvo makes them instantly cost inefficient xD

[dire harness]

There was a really short window when backpack S2 AMMs were kinda good during S3H times

[wicked mirage]

Interesting! ^^

[dire harness]

cruise S3H was so fun

I love hekp

[wary flame]

I use the 3pt EL Act ones for most things, I am considering trying CMD because you can cut the salvo size down to 1 and actually save some cash

[wicked mirage]

What do you use against Hybrids with SSJ/Decoys?

[wary flame]

cursing under my breath, mostly

but act usually gets a few anyway

need a few SSJs stacked up to completely bamboozle them

[dire harness]

tbh, mine pretty much always hit

SSJ is a bit sad

[mint sinew]

I've found a lot more success with BSSJ as an anti AMM penaid on hybrids in practice. Which is a bit sad for SSJ

[dire harness]

definitely, SSJ mainly seems to work well as the AMM

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-NEOCH-ACT-SARADACT' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Star : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam EWar PD Sensor]
The Fool : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile EWar PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Dagger : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE FRAG [1pts]
    SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                  SGM-H-380 None : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [17pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-NEOCH-BER-SACTCMD' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Hanged Man : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
  Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                 SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-378 If You Can Read This You're Too Close : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [13pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-NEOCH-ACT-SARADACT' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Star : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam EWar PD Sensor]
The Fool : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile EWar PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Dagger : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - HE FRAG [1pts]
    SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                  SGM-H-380 None : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [17pts]

[supple sonnet]

this is our babies if you treat them badly we'll be cross

also we should probably give the actual fool and star so you can be sneaky

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller QUE-CMD' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-H-332 Spike : DIRECT - CMD - HEKP [53pts]

[radiant sable]

^ use these ones sometimes to make the sneaky build work

[supple sonnet]

Oh thank you! we have yet to figure out how to build a decent axford

[tulip vault]

Damn, nebulous crashed on me for the first time in a very long time

Strange

[tulip vault]

Also, question, what’s the purpose of the single blanket on here?

I guess anti act missiles?

[radiant sable]

Anti-ACT, we believe.

[wary flame]

dangerous space warping

[toxic scaffold]

We think this gets more total RPM then the old 2MD max ROF ones

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'New-MD's' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

       Balor : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail]
      Sauron : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD Sensor]
Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
                           SGM-104 Red Rose Petal : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
                                    SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                 SGM-170 Look out, your Highness! : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [6pts]
SGM-200 Looking for that hull breachussy Block II : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[supple sonnet]

... No I don't know why those shuttles have Small DC lockers, and we will fix that

[glad aurora]

Yep, I run triple MD these days as well

Quite happy with it

personally, I'd bring a nose grazer as well, but that's personal preference - I also bring AMMs on the things themselves, but you have shuttles for that

... that said, I also have a very unhealthy number of AMMs

[toxic scaffold]

Oh we fixed thigns and put more AMM's on them

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'New-MD's' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

       Balor : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail]
      Sauron : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail]
Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD Sensor]
Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Rocket PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
                           SGM-104 Red Rose Petal : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [4pts]
                                    SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
                 SGM-170 Look out, your Highness! : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [6pts]
SGM-200 Looking for that hull breachussy Block II : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[supple sonnet]

We think it should be enough, though like I personaly am not sure that the chaff is going to do anything

[wary flame]

Capfleet is doing well, but for some reason I just keep getting my torp tugs beamed, I'm quite bad with them

Mines are doing more damage than they are, but obviously cannot push

[mint sinew]

Do you feel it is a scouting issue or just being forced into predictable spots? I know those are issues I've been running into now beamstones are popular again

[tulip vault]

Not being able to mount a jammer on them feels real bad wrt this

Ive been considering upping the range on my torps but I don’t think there’s a real 6k range torpedo

[tulip vault]

also damn you misc someone used your mine tactics on me in the wild

clearly this is your fault and not me driving onto the most easily mineable point in the world (E point on tombstones)

[wary flame]

Both, but it's harder for OSP to scout things like beamstones with EWRs and Huntresses than it is for a couple of spyglass frigates on the edge of the map to get good coverage on OSP.

[wary flame]

They really are a huge boost in efficiency, although I need to get my eye in. What did you lose?

[tulip vault]

the game :p

really though I walked my axford backwards into the point because I forgot the range on sprint mines

and you can't easily rpf the ones stuck to rocks

[arctic magnet]

[supple sonnet]

two questions:
can you comm jam minefields to have them activate on hostile ships, since they can't receive iff?
how good is bssj+rac on s3h? how close can you get a missile before it starts getting tracked?

[junior heron]

1: yes, but it's very difficult
2: I'm not sure

[supple sonnet]

hmm

[wicked mirage]

Would any of these help you?

[lime jungle]

SGT-365 PUMPKIN BOMB is a size 3 missile that costs 11 points.

[lime jungle]

SGT-311 Super Heavy Caliber is a size 3 missile that costs 16 points.

[lime jungle]

SGT-366 Drifting Flower is a size 3 missile that costs 11 points.

[wicked mirage]

The support modules / seekers can be modified to your tastes, it's mostly the engine triangles that I wanted to show you ^^

Each of these has varying degrees of ability to dodge defenders. You'll need some volume but a handful of these should be able to get thru a defender on a DD I think.

I once heard that 3.4g of Maneuverability at 200 - 225 m/s with Corkscrew is ideal for defeating Defenders, but these do pretty well for their range.

[plain ice]

There’s quite a few memes about minefields turning on you in the nebulous server but it seems to mostly be a case of turning your own IFF off to try and be sneaky only to realize you’re in a minefield.

So possible, yes. Easy, no

Which is what Tom said but in more words

[junior heron]

yeah people really want that 15% extra RCS reduction, at the cost of extremely high explosives

[supple sonnet]

right

[supple sonnet]

,,,,, hm. does emitter power drop off following the law of squares?

also, how wide is the angle of a hangup?

30⁰, right?

[dire harness]

I think it’s 20

[worthy bane]

Just take the rock

[glad aurora]

this scenario is now an orbital bombardment mission

[worthy bane]

Ram it full speed and watch it drift

[dire harness]

someday

[radiant sable]

we've made the fool worse

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller QUE-EO' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO) - HEKP [57pts]
SGM-H-349 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO) - HEKP [59pts]

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-349 Misericorde is a size 3 missile that costs 59 points.

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-348 Anelace is a size 3 missile that costs 57 points.

[supple sonnet]

update: this are wrong and we need to fix them

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller QUE-EO' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO) - HEKP [60pts]
SGM-H-350 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO) - HEKP [62pts]

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-349 Misericorde is a size 3 missile that costs 62 points.

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-348 Anelace is a size 3 missile that costs 60 points.

[radiant sable]

this will never work but we want it to anyway

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller QUE-EO' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Beam PD Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO) - HEKP [60pts]
SGM-H-349 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO) - HEKP [62pts]

[wary flame]

if you're using single seeker missiles with a spare slot, stick a free SAH seeker in the second one

even without illuminators, it means the missile will fly straight when jammed rather than wiggle everywhere

[radiant sable]

they're decoy/radar absorbant and bssj/radar absorbant

we don't have free slots

[wary flame]

ah, that explains the massive cost

[wicked mirage]

@wary flame

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'The Jar' is composed of 1 ship which costs 3000 points:

Ruby's Very Own Cookie Jar : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Missile Sensor PD EWar]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-267 Tossing Cookies : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [9pts]

[wary flame]

I now have to make a variant of this purely so I can do a fleet named after best boy

[wicked mirage]

YESSSS OMG YES!

Alexander my boy!!

[wary flame]

I need to play more Elden Ring, I left my last run stuck on Malenia

[wicked mirage]

He's such a cheerful fellow

[wicked mirage]

Ah yeah she's super hard, I can help!~

[wary flame]

great duel fight, I'm just not quite good enough at it

might take you up on that

also

80 clipper decoy in this CLN, so here we go

[sharp crow]

[tulip vault]

what even lmao

so many shuttles

[wary flame]

one fleet is 10 rocket pods 10 bellbirds

poor ANS

[noble zodiac]

what the fuckulous

[glad aurora]

I have invented comedy

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'NG Fool' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Whoops, My Trigger Finger Slipped : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Missile Gun EWar PD Sensor]
            Designated Cap Device : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [EWar Beam Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
          SGM-H-378 Estoc : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(EO) - HEKP [49pts]
SGM-H-378 Estoc Mle. 1630 : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(EO) - HE SHAPED [33pts]

[glad aurora]

(the masquerade, of course, is set to "Sprinter")

the general intent beyond Comedy is that I was quite happy with the HEI hybrids, 250, and 120 on my other build, but wanted tools to crack monitors and ocellos

Thus, I swapped a salvo of HEI and six barrels of 250 for a salvo of HEKP and a 2x FPA beam, equivalently

It is debatable whether this is a good idea, which is why I am presenting it for examination

also wondering whether it's worth paying for EO over SACT for backup targeting

[wicked mirage]

This looks fun Ash! ^^

[wet root]

I think you probably want EO primary if EO anything

Big fan of the Axford with sidearm Beamstone

[glad aurora]

Why EO primary, out of curiosity? I'm not sure on how EO works, I've just noticed that sometimes I lose track on my CMD/SACT missiles and my hit rate drops significantly when relying on that secondary - I thought EO would provide greater reliability for the points.

[fresh storm]

SACT?

if you want something absolutely 100% dead combining them may be an idea but they're both so good that it's a low return for the cost

[glad aurora]

Steerable Active (radar homing)

[fresh storm]

the way I understand it CMD will never use a secondary seeker so long as the launching ship is still aware of the target ship's existence and the missile is not being comms jammed

so the SACT is not improving accuracy because the CMD is still driving the missile by wire relying on the parent's track

even if the track is really bad, it would need to lose it completely to kick its own better radar on

[glad aurora]

Yeah, my problem has been losing track completely

had a game where the bulker/ocellos I was shooting at just completely disappeared

same for heavy jamming

[fresh storm]

eo would work there but its quirk is that it works off of intel the parent ship had at the moment of launch

if the track is just a track it'll go after anything, if it's "WARSHIP" it'll go after all warship, if you have the hull it might go after a different same hull in vincinity

I think there's a point where eo is able to pick out a specific ship by name

[glad aurora]

... hm.

[wicked mirage]

I like CMD/EO because if they have a discoball they probably don't have a blackjack, and if they have a discoball and a blackjack then they probably don't have as much gun as the average fleet so you can just shoot them lol

Or there's multiple fleets working together, but then that just means you need to work with your team to pick off their PD tools so your missiles can get thru.

[glad aurora]

Considering how rare EO is, I don't think I've seen a blackjack on an OSP fleet - thus the choice of EO secondary

that said, I might cut the EO secondary on the HEI and save CMD/EO as an anti-Ocello silver bullet

[wicked mirage]

That could be good. That's what I use for my direct fire HEKP's for use against Ocellos.

I figure if I'm paying for the HEKP warhead I might as well go all out to make sure it hits xD

[lone violet]

welp, 17 bought me nebulous, time to learn how to play this game 💧

[wet root]

Because EO/CMD costs the same as CMD/EO, and if you have a bad track (e.g. they jam your lock off but they're within range of a Spyglass) CMD will miss, whereas if they get Blackjacked they'll just fall back to CMD

[wet root]

Welcome!

[wicked mirage]

Heck yeah!! I'm totally down to help a new player learn just lmk! I can help you with the fleet editor and get you up to speed. The others here can too

I'm about to take a nap but I can help when I wake up

[dire harness]

welcome! <3

happy to help too!

(the greatest ship in neb is friendship)

[night fable]

Alright, lab rats, it's Friday, and that means it's time for some Friday Night NEBULOUS: Fleet Command! Everyone's free to join, so ready your fleets!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra <@&942093958551588904>

[lone violet]

tysm ‼️

[lone violet]

i may take you up on this if times line up !!

[supple sonnet]

Blackjacks are kinda unnoticable unless you shoot EO at them, In one of the Ruby shelf games last night Castigation ran a fleet i gave them that had an omnijam ocello in it. but I don't think anyone shot EO at it so it never matterd.

Ash And Gold ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Considering how rare EO is, I don't think I've seen a blackjack on an OSP fleet - thus the choice of…

[hidden echo]

Oh congrats!

[glad aurora]

ladies and gentlemen, I have achieved the pub victory of all time

[glad aurora]

This is a very fair point - I have my HEI back as CMD/SACT now, so I'll swap my HEKP to EO/CMD instead of CMD/EO

I have also discovered, after getting jumped by one (1) tug while having my beam turned the wrong way, that my sidearm DD needs to have 120s

in general, I think I'm going to drop the two hangups (going from 2h 2b to 2b flat) and get a 2x120 turret and a Defender

... actually, 2x120 or 1x250 turret?

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-REN-SACTCMD' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Hanged Man : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD Rail EWar Sensor]
  Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                 SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-378 If You Can Read This You're Too Close : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [13pts]

[radiant sable]

@wicked mirage you are very smart and we are taking a note from your book and giving our beam bb a railgun

it will make its targets dead and also on fire so they can't stop being dead

[dire harness]

oh god

[lone violet]

i hit the advanced tutorial mission 1 final ship with a missile first try !!

misc said this was rare!

[dire harness]

good job!

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Oak Softkill' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Moral Judgement : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
  Value Failing : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Missile Sensor]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-210 Activest Decoy : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-REN-SACTCMD' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Hanged Man : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD Rail EWar Sensor]
  Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
                 SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGT-378 If You Can Read This You're Too Close : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [13pts]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Sidearm Axfords Sneaky' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
            Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Mine Tugboat Caps' is composed of 10 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Black Stones : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
     White Stones : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile EWar Gun PD Sensor]
   Empty Triangle : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun PD]
           Ladder : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun PD]
         Dumpling : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun PD]
   Striated Space : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
     Smooth Space : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
Actually A Knight : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Sensor Gun]
            Slate : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
            Shell : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
          SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
  SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-208 Offmarket Vape Canister III : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [11pts]
                 SGT-358 Gom Jabbar : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [13pts]
        SGT-358 Gom Jabbar Block II : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[wary flame]

(just showing eight a set of common fleets and giving her the basic Axfords to play with, pay no mind to this lot)

[lone violet]

(hi :3)

[radiant sable]

(also eight use the hanged man)

(she is good)

[shadow matrix]

Rails are so fun

But it's so hard to tell if you're doing anything with them

[lone violet]

affirmations: ‘every rail shot i have ever fired has hit its mark’

[shadow matrix]

so true

pointing my array at the bulk freighter 11k away and hoping that all this shooting is hitting

[lone violet]

it absolutely is ‼️

[shadow matrix]

This performed pretty well though

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Can I Really Fall In Love WIth An MK500 Railcannon' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:

        Sheer Heart Attack : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Gun Sensor PD]
            Sweetest Steel : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Gun PD]
Electric Interstellar Love : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Gun Sensor PD]
          Heavy Metal Kiss : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Gun Sensor PD]
          Smile And A Wink : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor Gun PD]

[glad aurora]

Why bring PD on railstones?

esp. flak

[shadow matrix]

I'd rather bring it and not need it than get missile bonked, I s'pose

[glad aurora]

Fair. I suppose that, were I you, I'd bring defenders over rebounds (especially with the number of points you're investing in flak!) and then swap your Mk61s to Mk62s with HE-RPF to fill in flak's role at a cheaper price

[shadow matrix]

Mhm mhm

[glad aurora]

in general, RPF is your Friend (and so are Parallaxes on at least one of your destroyers, just in case)

flares are definitely not necessary either, now that I catch that. hm, what else

eh, fill the extra points you'll get from cutting out the flak to taste

probably start by filling your empty DD modules with rapid DC and working from there

[wet root]

RPF really isn't a substitute for flak, but I do tend to prefer Defenders on DDs, since your threat is primarily containers

If you're in Gale range something has gone terribly awry, and cruise S2s are quite rare

[glad aurora]

Agreed - I'm more talking about for killing container decoys

I believe that 120 RPF is adequate for that over flak

[wet root]

haven't tested that one, I could definitely see it working, my main concern would be turret traverse times

But on a rail array that's a lot less of an issue

[olive blade]

apparently defenders do pretty good vs decoys after the patch

I think gales can definitely kill dds but its not something you can really protect against

or like you can but its awkward

[wary flame]

I can see a little bit of flak, because the MMT is one of the only OSP ships that will typically get the chance to engage a railstone array with missiles and those carry exclusively weave S2s

[olive blade]

yeah maybe one

but I think defenders and rpf might be fine

[wary flame]

but I think the practical thing to do there is take 6-10 ACT EL Frag AMMs in the squadron set to S2s, which will 100% handle that every time, then a couple of defenders for basic containers

rather than both flak and defenders

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Obelisk Mine WIP' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

         Salt Feedback Loop : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
Table Flip Power Generation : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma PD Sensor]
                   Chloride : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [PD Missile Gun]
                     Sodium : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [EWar Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
        SGM-1 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]

[wary flame]

@olive blade PD escort and mine tug are just my current taste, a swarm of shuttles is more normal

actually should cut intel out of second bulker and get a shuttle, this really was a first draft

[olive blade]

huh

just 2 plasma each and no eregs

is that really enough?

[wary flame]

hasn't caused me any problems, although plasma hits are the limiting factor on how quickly you eat people

[olive blade]

hmm

[wary flame]

I think the optimum plasma turret count is maybe 3, but nobody runs that because it looks awful

need Lefty and Righty the triple T81 LNs

[olive blade]

hmmm I found even 4 with eregs felt a little slow

against people rotating their ships

[wary flame]

4 I find doesn't kill fast enough with the 100mm once stripped

but I'd have to run some tests

[olive blade]

yeah okay hmm

I might try 3

[olive blade]

did the low crew thing get fixed?

[tulip vault]

crew still isn't real

you just need it for DC teams and nothing else

(also personally I run 1 ereg and 2 plasma per liner and it works fine, it's just a tad sketchy against battleships but I don't really think that can be helped)

[runic torrent]

<@&942093958551588904> opening the boat night channels! o/

[grand pine]

oh damn boat night tonight

[wet root]

Oop, be on in 10

[supple sonnet]

Boats!

[grand pine]

enjoy your boats, commanders

[supple sonnet]

we are now Cool™️ 😎

[sharp crow]

[junior heron]

🎉

but also now you are no longer blue

and will intimidate people when playing with The Stack ™️

[wary flame]

when the minefield hits just right

the other frigates surrendered

[oak shell]

Happy boating!

[dire harness]

boat time :0

[toxic scaffold]

\

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Testulas-Tripple-Threat' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Parlament of Fools : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma Sensor Rocket EWar PD]
 Inequality Street : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Gun Plasma Sensor Rocket EWar PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-100 Pocket Sand : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]

[junior heron]

silly discussion we've come to in team 1:
How many points would you give up to guarantee one point in a game

and bouncing around what map and what capture zones are worth how many points

[quiet quiver]

Dunno, but also depends on how long I'm 'guaranteeing' it for

[wet root]

If it's for the entire game, and you choose the point, I think you can easily spend up to 200

[junior heron]

the way I figure it'd be done in-game would be the other team just doesn't capture the point ever

[wet root]

More becomes a bit riskier

[junior heron]

sorry, spending fleet points to keep permanent control zone control

[wet root]

Ohhh interesting

[quiet quiver]

If it's for one point for the entire game I'd give up >500 pts out of 12000

[supple sonnet]

333 points to own a natrual is a good trade

there natural

[quiet quiver]

I'd spend 500 points on my own natural if that's just locked down forever and doesn't need worrying about

[glad aurora]

I spend 775

Cost of the beam DD making sure nothing survives poking its head in

[wary flame]

the actual gamble there is "how many points do you pay for each of 3 points, the two enemy naturals and A"

because if you lock those three you just have to live

[wet root]

I suspect the answer is around 11800

Depending on the map, a pair of shuttles can be very sneaky

Though if the opfor knows this is happening you have to pay a lot less because 12000 points gets you a lot of seeking for your game of hide and seek

ANS might actually be better at it come to think of it, because ELINT being undetectable is huge for skulkery

[olive blade]

I think hiding for like 30 mins is a big ask

[quiet quiver]

An ELINT prowler sprinter can manage that, esp if it has a friend hiding elsewhere for crossfixes

[wet root]

Sprinters and Shuttles are particularly interesting for it, since they have the speed to dip pretty far out beyond the withdraw line

[tulip vault]

I think it's really highly map dependent

I said this to tom but I would spend quite a few points to own A on Nyx from the E side

[toxic scaffold]

The Intell box is perhaps a mistake but this fleet should be able to hold ground.

[lime jungle]

Fleet '@}~`~' is composed of 7 ships that cost 3000 points:

Spacer's guild private lounge : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Sensor]
                 Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
                 Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
                 Duncan Idaho : 'Tugboat' class Clipper [Missile Gun Sensor PD]
                 Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [EWar Rocket PD]
                 Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun Rocket Sensor]
                 Duncan Idaho : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun Rocket Sensor]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-100 Pocket Sand : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
      SGM-106 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
 SGT-358 Gom Jabber : DIRECT - CMD/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[tulip vault]

man setting pd doctrine to point really makes the amms super stingy

I thinmk I might have to go back to are

[junior heron]

it's rough

you still in game?

[tulip vault]

yeah

cap gaming on nyx 😔

however,

@junior heron if you're seeking a boat game, mine has wrapped up

[junior heron]

boat!

[grand pine]

hav fun boating

[radiant sable]

mangled some missiles and maybe got the fool into better shape?

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-349 Misericorde is a size 3 missile that costs 73 points.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller REN-EOEACT' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
The Star : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [PD Beam Sensor EWar]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [53pts]
SGM-H-349 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [73pts]

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-348 Anelace is a size 3 missile that costs 53 points.

[radiant sable]

i think we've managed to cut our railgun fleet down to the bone

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Keystone Sniper ECT' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

     Eight of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail Sensor]
    Nine of Swords : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
       Two of Cups : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
 Page of Pentacles : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
Queen of Pentacles : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Rail]
         Judgement : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [Sensor]

[olive blade]

That is definitely stripped haha

At that point I'd probably cut the small dc for chaff a couple of defenders and ideally a backup radar and bullseye

I like the concept though

[past light]

Mazer's taking apps for conquest mode testers, if anyone is interested: #749252281404489758 message

App window closes March 1st.

[glad aurora]

I'll probably be disqualified because I'm not in the nebcord, but hell, I'll toss an application in for the hell of it

what is your current ingame rank?
lieutenant
they do not know

[sharp crow]

conquest testing...

I haven't played in like two months or I'd apply

[quiet quiver]

Oh god it's the Job Interview Question

[radiant sable]

so it turns out that these missiles work somewhat well

[wet root]

HEKP is scary, when you can afford to bring it

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-349 Misericorde is a size 3 missile that costs 73 points.

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-348 Anelace is a size 3 missile that costs 53 points.

[wicked mirage]

This S2H Yub fleet works really well, I highly recommend you guys giving it a try! It's pretty straight forward and features:

• Scouting S2's
• A few extra cheap S2H for aggressive scouting
• Mixed Salvos of equal parts ACT/[EO], ARAD/ACT, and ACT/[WAKE] for taking on Shuttles, Tugs, and Bulk Freighters.
• EO/ACT HEKP S2H for taking on Monitors and Ocellos.
• A pair of cruise Killjoys with seekers and 15km range for disrupting enemy missiles volleys from around corners.
  

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Glitter Gems (S2H Yub)' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Froststone : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile]
Glittercrush : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
         SGM-232 Hollow Gem : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/HOJ(RADAR) - NONE [11pts]
          SGM-299 Snowflake : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [6pts]
SGM-H-2-2 Rose Quartz Shard : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
     SGM-H-202 Zircon Thorn : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [28pts]
  SGM-H-221 Fire Dust Flare : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [15pts]
  SGM-H-222 Turquoise Shard : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [19pts]

[wary flame]

I've been playing with cruise myself and ended up with salvoes of 50/50 Arad/Act and Act/[EO-R] hardened skin S3H

they're expensive as hell but surprisingly functional, because they hit damage breakpoints on grasers and AMMs

[wicked mirage]

Ooo that's cool! Hardened Skin is really good these days.

[wary flame]

trying to figure out a cheap cruise tug-hunter design using them because I bet I can beat the usual AMM complements on those things with the old fire on elint technique

[wicked mirage]

I will say tho, [WAKE] can be really real if you get side/rear aspect on something.

[wary flame]

I was going with wake val originally and then Octo pointed out EO val was a thing on ANS

I had container brain

[wicked mirage]

Yeah EO Val is so good.

[wary flame]

I think it's absolutely good for hunting things besides bulkers, bulkers are easy wake targets because they just hand the rear aspect shot to you on a silver platter

[wicked mirage]

true lol

[wary flame]

but bloodhounds and EWRs do the opposite, so fancy validator needed

[wicked mirage]

EO Val is useful for hunting Mass Drivers too.

[glad aurora]

I'm a bigger fan of EO/CMD for S3H after running them lately, but that's my personal preference

[wary flame]

far too expensive to get my kind of volume, or for cheap scouts

and CMD doesn't work with cruise anyway

[wicked mirage]

Yeah CMD/EO is really good for direct fire HEKP, I think.

[wary flame]

very much the HEKP Device

[wicked mirage]

yar

[wary flame]

"why is this missile so expensive"

"ah"

[wicked mirage]

xD

[wicked mirage]

EL Frag torp go BOOM!

[supple sonnet]

I will say in the few games we have brought stairs to in the modern era of neb, the amount of time a bulker spends going sideways makes WAKE a lot less likly to trigger

[wicked mirage]

It can, potentially.

Yeah if they're not using their main thrusters Wake wont go, but conversely Bulks need their main/front thrusters for good LT, so there's a decent chance that Bulkers being shot at will be using their main engines at least some of the time I think.

[wary flame]

wake val behaves very well against bulkers in my experience

wake pri less so

30pt HEI S3H make me sad, even if they do deal 2.6k damage

but I think these might do it, the question is how to make a reasonably priced launch platform

[lime jungle]

'S3H Hunter (Experimental)' is a 'Raines' class Frigate that costs 650 points.

[wary flame]

hmm

maybe

708pts with ARR, which is probably a bit much when it's mostly shooting at elint tracks anyway

three salvoes that should gib your average scout tug instantly, and one leftover missile

wait, wrong AMMs

[lime jungle]

'S3H Hunter (Experimental)' is a 'Raines' class Frigate that costs 666 points.

[wary flame]

appropriate point cost

[glad aurora]

Cut another 50 to make it Biblically accurate

(levity aside: why Whip over Prowler for a long-range cruise cart?)

[radiant sable]

tempted to make an s2h sprinter to deal with cap shuttles

[wary flame]

speed good, although you could save 10 points by cutting that and going stock drive

prowler is very expensive for something that stops you going to places

[quiet quiver]

Also WRT earlier talk about the MCRN mod, it seems like Ancient (the maker of it) is slowly poking at things but it's an extensive overhaul

New code new models

[wary flame]

I've been in the torp sprinter vs shuttle arms race for ages, want to skip the hassle and just use my latest?

or at least have a look at it

[tulip vault]

I personally swear by the cork s2s

[radiant sable]

sure

[tulip vault]

Oh really?

That’s vaguely interesting

[lime jungle]

'S3H Cap Sprinter' is a 'Sprinter' class Corvette that costs 345 points.

[wary flame]

@radiant sable this is my go-to extremely expensive cap sprinter, in this age of pavise shooting down torps I've been switching out to Fast Startup S3H to get around it

if you want to make it cheaper, do 2x Arad/Act torp, 2x Act/[CMD] torp and 2x Act/[CMD] S3H, costs less

maybe pare out a couple of AMMs

torps for shuttles without pavises and bow-on tugboats, S3H for anything, single Arad S3H for launching into the jamming white-out of a lyrebird shuttle or MMT at sub-4km range so it instantly stages and knocks out the jammer, allowing you to kill it with the other missiles

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Solomon Beams P-SAE-SCMD' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Hanged Man : 'Solomon' class Battleship [Beam PD EWar Sensor]
  Six of Wands : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
      SGM-111 Currency Conversion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [3pts]
     SGM-166 No Thank You, Please : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
           SGM-H-389 Fishtail-APT : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [18pts]
           SGM-H-389 Fishtail-APV : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [17pts]
               SGT-358 Gom Jabbar : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[wary flame]

....why is it more expensive now

[radiant sable]

we put a little more ammo on it

it was that or give the hanged man something like 28k 20mm

[dire harness]

EO val :D

I love EO

[radiant sable]

eo is just,,,, funny, tbh

i am looking 👁️👁️

[dire harness]

S3H :D

[grand pine]

you could've been sleeping

[dire harness]

missiles :D

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3k velvet v2' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

            Velvet : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile]
             Devil : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile]
             Angel : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile]
 Cap fast Die fast : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
 Cap slow Die fast : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
Cap that Die there : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-H-300 Bug : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [23pts]

[dire harness]

spyglass on the frig is for spotting any flanking rocket shuttles, killed 4 of them in a game just now

rly valuable in pubs if no one can watch your flanks

[mint sinew]

I'm super unhappy leaving home without in fleet spotting for pubs. Even if I'm playing a fleet that shouldn't need it.

Had enough games that were far more miserable than they needed to be because nobody brought eyes

[wet root]

Excellent screenshot

[dire harness]

3 no PD bulkers are yummy c:

[wet root]

As the resident Gale Raines player, I agree wholeheartedly

[radiant sable]

huh

you can get a smaller radar rcs with a double prowler raines than you can with a prowler sprinter

2167m^2 vs 1965m^2

oh

ooh

ohohoho

[lime jungle]

'Stealth FF' is a 'Raines' class Frigate that costs 477 points.

[radiant sable]

this probably costs too much but you're theoretically invisible until you're ~2/3rds as close as you'd usually be detected

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Axford Shipkiller M-TAC-EOEACT-STEALTH' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Fool : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD Sensor]
Strength : 'Raines' class Frigate [Gun EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
    SGM-H-348 Anelace : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [53pts]
SGM-H-349 Misericorde : CRUISE - PSV(EO)/ACT(RADAR) - HEKP [73pts]

[junior heron]

hastily checking the Axford to make sure it isn't triple-prowler

[radiant sable]

nah, the fool's normal

actually, we could probably get rid of the reactor to stick another whiplash in it

but that's,,,,, more thinking than we want to do rn

[junior heron]

(I've seen it once, it literally couldn't return to the point after it backed off)

[sharp crow]

it's gotta keep prowling

[radiant sable]

on that prowler grindset

if you've ever seen, immediately self-destruct

[grand pine]

where self destruct buttn

[radiant sable]

scram reactors until no reactors remain

[grand pine]

good to know >:)

[radiant sable]

(this is not actual advice, we wish we could scuttle ships, but that's probably a violation of stable treaties or some such)

[quiet quiver]

You'll have to settle for abandoning ship

[radiant sable]

@wary flame you are hereby banned from inventing new and interesting ways of killing people

we just got hit with the five-finger strike or whatever you called it by a tugboat who planted them on the other side of our fucking c point

[quiet quiver]

The five-point palm exploding ship technique?

[junior heron]

but usually you're only mining one point

[olive blade]

damn we should use that

that name whips

[wicked mirage]

So I've been playing this fleet and enjoying it It's my fleet for when I want to help the team with caps and Intel but also want to play a big cool capital ship xD

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Huntress' Dream (Intel+Cap)' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

Huntress' Dream : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Missile Sensor]
       Memories : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Gun]
    Revelations : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Gun]
     Nightmares : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD Gun]
```This fleet uses 7 different missile types:
```yaml
               SGM-123 Ruby Thorn : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [4pts]
          SGM-123 Star Ruby Thorn : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
SGM-133 'Red Scythe' Anti-Clipper : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]
      SGM-H-2-2 Rose Quartz Shard : CRUISE - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
            SGM-H-201 Amber Shard : DIRECT - CMD - HEKP [25pts]
        SGM-H-221 Fire Dust Flare : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [15pts]
            SGM-H-228 Fairy Thorn : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR)/[PSV(EO)] - HE SHAPED [15pts]

[oak shell]

Banger names

[wet root]

I like this a lot, not needing to fit in 1500 points gives CAs a lot of much-wanted breathing room

(I've been wanting to do something similar with an Ocello and MMTs myself)

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, not having to cut corners is nice ^^

[wet root]

Very important suggestion however:

If you swap the Interruptor and the VLS-2, you get a bunch more missile slots at the same price. You already have two Floodlights.

Consider: SAH S2 AMMs

[wicked mirage]

That would be cool! I think I'll definitely try that on a different fleet. This one uses SAH S2H's, but a different fleet with a slightly shifted focus could benefit from that really well I think!

[wet root]

Ooh I missed the SAH[EO]s

Those are fun

[wicked mirage]

Heck yeah, thanks Peri

[wicked mirage]

They're great, they're reasonably priced and the [EO] not only prevents chaff from working but also lets you single out a particular ship if you track fire it with enough intel on the target.

These are set to Accept however, so a little finesse is required sometimes. It helps if they have a Dazzler though.

[wet root]

I suppose the benefit over SAH[CMD] is that you can blindfire into jamming?

Hm, avoiding the Dazzler makes sense, but I feel like reject might be worth it with the new validator change that lets reject missiles fly straight under jamming?

2x floods does a lot but you don't want them to wobble outside the 3k max acquire range

[wicked mirage]

Potentially, CMD val wouldn't be bad but it can validate chaff if you shoot at even a mid quality track.

[wicked mirage]

SAH is actually 4k

[wet root]

Huh, I keep thinking 3k, no idea why

You would think I should know that

[wicked mirage]

Reject would help vs jamming, I think it comes down to a preference of whether you want to be able to still have a chance against a dazzler or be able to potentially slip under radar jamming.

[wet root]

Oh, I haven't had a chance to test that yet, good to know - mid quality being like an uncorrelated Spyglass? Or even on better tracks

[wicked mirage]

If they're swimming in chaff even a Frontline track can sometimes validate chaff, but generally anything with 30m of error or better will work fine usually.

[wet root]

Makes sense. Could bring a mix as well

[wet root]

Fantastic, saves me lots of testing!

Ty

[wicked mirage]

Np ^^

Also yeah I should try CMD val on these I think. If I'm being jammed super hard I'm gonna have a hard time using these anyway even if they're set to Reject on the [EO].

CMD val should definitely be on Accept though, otherwise I might as well just use a CMD primary seeker.

And that gets got by discoballs and hangups.

[radiant sable]

wait, does eo still have 100% validator reliability?

[wicked mirage]

I'd have to check, I can't remember.

Ooo, CMD/SAH wouldn't be bad either.

A little bit more expensive tho

[wet root]

Tbf I think I'm the only person who ever runs hangups on Ocellos

[wicked mirage]

I've seen it a few times from other folks but yeah it's rare.

[wet root]

If it works like ACT[CMD], SAH[CMD] might actually have some benefits in terms of dodging Pavise fire

Also can hit through jamming if you've got a Spyglass track or something

But yeah, fairly niche

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, it could be good tho.

[wet root]

Saves 0.5 points too!

[wicked mirage]

heh, true

I do like how [EO] val can help against swarms where tracks are blinking in and out through the jamming like popcorn.

Idk, I'd have to think about it and whether I like Reject or Accept better.

[wet root]

(To elaborate on this, for ACT[CMD] it will usually acquire not quite perfectly in the center of the cone, so as it corrects and overcorrects it gets a nice pseudo-weave)

[wicked mirage]

Oooh

[wet root]

Yeah, not requiring a track seems really nice, especially with Floods

[wicked mirage]

Yeah ^^

[wet root]

...heck, I might have to steal this fleet concept and finally learn how to fly an Axford

[wary flame]

if you want some of my own recent Axford experiments

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Sidearm Axfords Fast' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:

Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
            Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]

[wary flame]

Axfords that flank at 37

not LN tier but close

[noble zodiac]

oh hey its the doublewhip raider build

[wary flame]

bowtanking takes a bit more forethought but it's very handy for keeping range against plas/100

[tulip vault]

in an effort to keep with the times I've made a double sidearm axford fleet and wow is pure capital gaming relaxing

certainly not easy by any means but not needing to click around to four different places every few seconds is a nice change of pace

[wary flame]

it's very chill

[tulip vault]

👁️

[glad aurora]

👁️

[radiant sable]

we are not cut out to be a team mom

microing cap, intel/elint, and trying to yell at people to shoot this or that is. more than we can do

that said our standoff jammers fuck

nobody can see shit 😌

[wet root]

This is why I have four different groups of jammers, two types of guns, and a Raider drive on each of my Ocellos!

With effort, you too can make your capitals take lots of micro!

[radiant sable]

oh lmao

90% of our micro with the hanged man is just yelling at our dc teams

[wet root]

My DC teams are on permanent thruster duty

(With the occasional excursion to the jammers if I have to lean on BSHORT)

[radiant sable]

we fully just have ours acting like this

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-amish-building-build-explosion-gif-12259319577573268006

yes, you will be repairing the sacrificial reinforced cic while being shot at

yes, you will be repairing that fire

go do your job

[wet root]

I definitely am looking forward to doing that in Axfords and Ocellos once Conquest hits

And we are free from the curse of 1500 points

It will be fascinating to see how losing the 3k point limit changes groups

[radiant sable]

wait, what??

what's the new point limit

[wet root]

AFAIK there's not one on groups

Just however many points of stuff you start with across the entire team, distributed as you like

I'm not a tester though, so take that with a grain of salt

[radiant sable]

hm

[wet root]

Or, well, not distributed as you like, I think it starts distributed across your stations and whatnot

[radiant sable]

honestly, one thing that's going to be interesting to us is how missile/yub fleets change

[wet root]

But AFAIK no more neat "four battlegroups of 3k points to a fleet"

[wet root]

Particularly how the "VLS can only be reloaded in port" aspect impacts doctrine, yeah

[radiant sable]

it feels like the optimal play will just be dumping everything and retreating (or at least sitting right next to the retreat line during the game instead)

[wet root]

Surrender CL might be a terrifying raider

[radiant sable]

take a cln, fill it with more mines than sense, mine every point, leave

[wet root]

Which is excellent, cruisers should cruise

[radiant sable]

oh yea for sure

it might be interesting how stealth starts to work too? equal parts trying to sneak across a map and trying to pack as much damage as you can to take out things

which actually seems nice

[wet root]

What's even better is if the opfor then just decides to leave as well

[radiant sable]

sensors combat as ans is actually really fun

[wet root]

Going to be fascinating to see how sensors work in the campaign map in general

[radiant sable]

for sure

[wet root]

Definitely expect to see more ELINT Ocellos

[radiant sable]

picket sprinters seem like a hell of a lot of fun

although that's probably taking too much inspiration from battlegroup

[wet root]

I'm guessing small things like Sprinters and Tugs will be a lot more limited in a scouting role on the strategic layer

[radiant sable]

still, tho, i wish there were more kinds of passive sensors

[wet root]

Assuming they have pretty limited ability to operate independently

[wet root]

A wake sensor could be very cool

...no pun intended

[radiant sable]

no, more like,,,,,, idk?

idk

something like Large Pinard would be fun to see

[wet root]

Specifically on the strategic layer I mean, something that you could sniff out to see that a group used a transfer orbit here X days ago

[radiant sable]

that or some way to improve passive tracks

oh, yea, that'd be fun

[glad aurora]

I've got the kitakami vauxhall somewhere just waiting for if that's the case

every mount is a torp turret

woe, S3 be upon your logi

[wet root]

I'm guessing strategic layer ELINT will be much more precise

[radiant sable]

hopefully

we just want to have a bunch of little guys sniffing people out

it would be nice 😔

[wet root]

Hopefully you can have little guys screening your main fleet

[wet root]

Mhhh, fairly dubious about torps because the obvious thing to do when caught by a raider is scatter, but this is deep in the speculation mines

[olive blade]

I think elint s2h corvs would be my first thought for raider

[wet root]

I'm assuming small ships like Sprinters will have very limited ability to operate independently

Fuel/crew/whatever limitations

[olive blade]

Hmm true

I wonder if extra fuel storage will be a module

[wet root]

I'm also curious, I could see them going either way on it

I hope cruisers get the largest relative ones by default

[olive blade]

I'm interested to see

I assume bulkers get the most

[wet root]

Oh true

[olive blade]

Having bulkers doubling as logi would be pretty cool

[wet root]

I want to say we've heard that we'll get bulkers as logi ships, though I don't know if they'll be non-militarized versions

[glad aurora]

If I have to kill plas/100 bulkers as "logi ships," I will be distinctly displeased

[wet root]

Looking forward to seeing what the ANS tenders end up like

[wet root]

You almost certainly will have to for ammo tenders

[olive blade]

I imagine as logi ships Plas 100 or mds are probably too slot intensive if a bunch are spent on cargo

[wet root]

Considering how much ammo they can carry in a bulk mag

[olive blade]

But cheap gun liners definitely

[wet root]

Yeah, cheap gun/PD liners makes a lot of sense

[glad aurora]

"clearly I, a fast cruiser player, can just run down the OSP logistics train"

the four gun liners carrying the entire task force's ammo:

Does raise the question of whether ANS tenders will/can be armed, as well

[wet root]

Presumably with PD at a minimum

[wet root]

Softkill Vaux go brrr

[glad aurora]

hm, interesting point

wolfpacks of raider vauxes, one with 2x blanket/2x hangup, disco ball, and five 250, the other with S3H, bullseye, and at least two Defenders

[wet root]

Probably want to go all guns or all missiles

Having to send half your fleet home after one battle is not great

If you're trying to harass their supply lines

[glad aurora]

True, but if they aren't spending Ocellos on escorting their logi, that's free HEI kills

[wet root]

Hence why all missiles is probably a fine choice as well

Just not half-and-half, you want your raiders to have the same endurance

[glad aurora]

Makes sense.

[wet root]

(Though maybe something like 4x VLS-3 and one gun for killing supply ships without wasting missiles and finishing off HEI'd ships)

[olive blade]

I mean I think AMMs and pd can go a decent way against s3h

[wet root]

Yeah, you absolutely can defend against S3H raiders without Ocellos

Even just good softkill could likely be effective, if they're off on their own you can probably jam the cruisers to prevent CMD

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Raiding Group Vauxhall' is composed of 1 ship which costs 1993 points:

The Timed Gush : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile EWar Gun]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
SGM-H-378 Estoc Mle. 1635 : DIRECT - PSV(EO)/CMD - HE SHAPED [32pts]

[glad aurora]

it's fine, the softkill will protect us

(but realistically I assume you drop a blanket for a chaff box or something)

4x6 salvos of EO/CMD S3H is probably enough to guarantee a dead supply train

[dire harness]

why EO/CMD?

[quiet quiver]

There was some Mazer comments a while back on how strategic radar works, I'm trying to remember

[glad aurora]

EO is basically unjammable (for how expensive it is, good), and if OSP starts bringing Blackjacks now, then the CMD takes over on a Parallax track

It's what I've been using lately for my Ocello removal HEKP, so I figured it'd also work on HEI where you need to make impact (instead of the significantly cheaper CMD/SACT)

[dire harness]

Interesting idea, I’ve always used CMD/ARAD since you get better target selection

EO is nice for cruise though <3

[glad aurora]

How do you figure that goes for CMD/ARAD?

I used to use CMD/SACT for all my S3H, then switched to EO on some things as of late, so I'm absolutely open to other opinions

[dire harness]

The only thing you have to worry about is jamming or comms jamming, the arad covers jamming and an ocello comms jamming you will have to shut down radar, chaff, and still comms jam

this is mainly for instastage but from what i’ve played with it you pretty much never get soft killed

also a bit cheaper than EO which is always nice

[wet root]

Offset jamming can be a problem but that's pretty situational

Since they have to be jamming from far enough back to outrange the stage but close enough to break your contact

Also your local neighborhood Hangup Ocello can save a friend, but that's similarly rare

[mint sinew]

Instastage not leaving a lot of time for ID and softkill execution allows for you to sneak a lot of things in past things that theoretically could defeat it.

Jammers not automatically hooking ARAD anymore makes them a lot more effective as backup options. Not like an ocello can really afford to be fighting in close range with the radar/bullseye off proactively

[junior heron]

These are the couple of things I could find about that

Radars have fairly short range in conquest so the primary way you'll see enemy fleets is when they're burning. You can count flares and right now I'm considering a cold waters-esque minigame of matching drive signatures.

A long-range mode (separate set of stats) will be added to all the existing sensors to work at the solar system scale. This mode has an extremely long pulse width and thus can't be used to detect anything within a few hundred kms.

[quiet quiver]

I had forgot the drive flare thing, but yeah the long-pulse sensors is what I was thinking of

[glad aurora]

Update: Did a bunch of testing against an OSP fleet of a 2x Pavise shuttle, 3x aurora/2x sarissa/disco Ocello, and liner with a grazer, trying to kill the liner

In general, six missiles would not do it, but twelve would

EO, ironically enough, had problems in the first salvo insofar as (when fired at UNKNOWN tracks) it couldn't be jammed by anything in the enemy fleet, but would veer off and smack into the Ocello if it was held close to the liner

otherwise, same principles as usual for S3H vaux hold: need to get jammers onto the Ocello to shut down the Sarissa FCR

(18 missiles just gets you a reactor bloom on the liner, which is completely unnecessary but funny)

2x2000pt cruisers is probably enough for supply line interdiction with that considered - fairly reliable kills on up to four OSP supply bulkers without rearming

[olive blade]

I think there are a lot of factors to it probably

AMMs definitely muddy things

[glad aurora]

I had 50 AMMs on the liner, but they didn't go off under jamming

or, at least, if they were fired they had a minimal kill rate - in general, I lost one missile out of each salvo of six to a combination of AMMs and auroras

hardened skin a+

[olive blade]

you are also super vulnerable to missiles back which is its own issue

[glad aurora]

Sure am - the disco ball isn't going to help that much

[wet root]

Did you remember to BSHORT the Ocellos for that btw?

[glad aurora]

Yep

Hardened Skin really does improve aurora survivability a ton

[wet root]

Yep. Not much can survive against that much missile

[wicked mirage]

"Today, Pyrope gets tired of little sprinters up in orbit spotting her."

[lime jungle]

'THE WHITE WHALE' is a 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship that costs 1285 points.

[wicked mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/omsi-omsi2-rapidly-approaching-your-location-caetano-bus-fly-gif-27010929

You've heard of the MMT, I call this the MMLN!

The Mmmelon.

[wary flame]

what on earth is that horrible device

[quiet quiver]

Nice drive/reactor setup

Also just noticed the double radar

[glad aurora]

why does it have - yes

why

actually, wait

it has four radars

[quiet quiver]

Oh ye EWR and FCR too

[noble zodiac]

waiwaiwait MMLN is the format of a RWBY team 🤔

Team Melon

WAIT IT HAS A DCX

[wicked mirage]

xD

[radiant sable]

good luck! i'm behind 1200m^2 rcs!!!!

[wicked mirage]

It is the apex predator, the blue whale scooping up space krill, the answer to those little invisible ghosts flying around spotting me and my team all the dang time!!!

[tulip vault]

Why does it have two search radars

[wicked mirage]

Huntress for spotting/burthru, Ithaca for shooting until I get an FCR lock.

Ithaca is 8.5km max range, Pinpoint is 6.5km but the ship also has to rotate to get it on target.

EWR for spotting long range and then closing with the search radars

Gotta turn off the radars in order to run the EWR

So it has 2 modes

Could prolly attach a Bloodhound

Alternate between hunting small ships / spotting large ships

Oh that's a good idea, I'll make a version with that

God's Angriest AWACS

Could fit Intel too...

Double drive is important to hit 50 m/s, can chase down Sprinters and Raines and destroy them.

Wait I forgot a Berthing

[noble zodiac]

i love how accurate that bellcurve meme of middies -> blues/silvers -> golds is proving to be

[wicked mirage]

New Creechure, has Intel, Bloodhound suboptimal due to lack of Track Correlators, would have to sacrifice one of the search radars for a TC, possible, but hampers Little Goblin that sees me hunting capability.

[lime jungle]

'THE WHITE WHALE' is a 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship that costs 1360 points.

[radiant sable]

have you considered just strapping a few containers on a bloodhound monitor? granted, we're just thinking about our own spotter shuttles, but if you can get a general idea of where it might be you could swat it with a single container, easy

,,, granted, that's just thinking about our pinard shuttles, not anything like the hermit

still, arad/eact would be good

[wicked mirage]

That would be good however if they just drop chaff and turn off radar it'll softkill x.x

[radiant sable]

true,,,, hm

wait hold on we have a good idea

give us like 10 minutes

[radiant sable]

okay, so: this is probably a terrible idea, but our best napkin math says it might work, so,,,, eh?

[lime jungle]

CM-4-3 Say NO To Paparazzi is a size 4 missile that costs 7 points.

[lime jungle]

CM-4-2 Don't Look At Me is a size 4 missile that costs 8 points.

[radiant sable]

launch these in pairs-- Don't Look At Me is ARAD(a)/EACT(r)/[WAKE], ideally going to be able to get in range to spook them enough to move their eye in the sky and give the EACT a validated target to lock

paparazzi is the follow up to it, EACT(a)/WAKE(a)/[WAKE]-- if they do move, it has a validated EACT track, and a bonus wake seeker to steer it back in, in case it goes around. if they don't, it gives you a second chance at rolling the dice to see if act Just Works™️

,,,,,,,, actually, it might be a better idea to change Don't Look At Me to EACT(r)/EACT(a)/[WAKE]

[lime jungle]

CM-4-2 Don't Look At Me is a size 4 missile that costs 8 points.

[radiant sable]

oop

[lime jungle]

CM-4-2 Don't Look At Me is a size 4 missile that costs 9 points.

[radiant sable]

if the primary validated seeker doesn't see a validated target, it,,,, should? switch back to just using the unvalidated seeker instead

you still get a roll of the It Just Works™️ dice regardless of it it's moving or has radar

[dire harness]

everything has DCX

[dire harness]

what…

<3

[tulip vault]

Well I can’t say I’d ever bring one, but it’s certainly innovative

[radiant sable]

hold on hold on we have the worst idea

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Ocello Rails GHO-SPRSMCK' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

The Lacy Clash : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Rail PD EWar Sensor]
 Tell and Pawn : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Rail Missile PD Sensor]
Brook E. Snell : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD]
```This fleet uses only one missile type:
```yaml
CM-4-2 Don't Look At Me : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR)/PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [9pts]

[radiant sable]

this is the bad idea

we mixed our weird rails fleet with the sprint smackers and a perfect bloodhound

absolutely perfect dog

this is the worst but atleast there's dog

[wet root]

I actually have a couple stacks of similar EACT[WAKE]/WAKE boxes on several of my OSP fleets, they're excellent for keeping cappers and spotters honest

Mine have a bunch of extra range so I can send them way around the back to then sweep across the map at high altitudes

[radiant sable]

those have 25km? which hopefully it's enough

and yea act/wake/wake is so silly but if it works

[wet root]

I like my excessive cruise paths

But yeah they tend to get a sprinter or three per game, which is fantastic roi

Plus they're cheap enough to be fine to use for scouting

[grand pine]

what's the meme?

[mint sinew]

A variant of this one, I've seen a few kicking around

[glad aurora]

true and real

the trick is that all the radars you can put on a MD liner a) cost power and b) are worse than ANS radars on an accompanying Ocello

so you just don't put any radars on it and enjoy your one less necessary reactor

[mint sinew]

I don't even bother with the ocello and outsource to my emotional support bloodhound

[grand pine]

i am too dumb to build an OSP fleet :(

[mint sinew]

OSP is a bit of a mess to build as they tend to favour bringing a collection of different ships rather than refining a core design and escorts. Once you have a bunch of blueprints for the basic fleet roles that you like, building for OSP gets a bit easier

[dire harness]

the answer is usually more shutltes

[wicked mirage]

@wet root

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Summer (GunCH+GunCL)' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

  Summer Rose : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun PD Sensor]
Rosary Seraph : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar]
 Little Petal : 'Sprinter' class Corvette []
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
      SGM-102 Starshard : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-123 Star Ruby Thorn : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [7pts]

[mint sinew]

That really is the minimum possible corvette. Is skipping the mag/berthing intentional?

[dire harness]

prbly not?

unless you’re trying to do weird stuff with certain pen depths

16 points for rapid and “a weapon” pretty much always feels worthwhile imo

caps are nice <3

[wet root]

Do modules even impact pen depth?

[radiant sable]

it effects damage calculations, iwrc

if you get hit with an he shell that detonates and hits exactly one module, even if only barely, it'll do full damage

if that module is surrounded by other modules, it'll split the damage between them

[topaz jolt]

Hii hi, I saw some peoples post some missiles. So I share 3 of my favourite little missiles I have.

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-342 Dratus is a size 3 missile that costs 34 points.

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-353 Scram is a size 3 missile that costs 44 points.

[lime jungle]

SGM-H-321 Spellfire is a size 3 missile that costs 48 points.

[topaz jolt]

My silly little fleet.

[lime jungle]

Fleet '3k Silly Little Beans 3' is composed of 3 ships that cost 3000 points:

 Repose : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Missile PD Sensor]
Respite : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD]
 Hiatus : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
 SGM-100 LittleSquish : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
      SGM-100 Scatter : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-H-204 Wriggletail : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
  SGM-H-321 Spellfire : DIRECT - PSV(EO)/ARAD(RADAR) - HEKP [48pts]
     SGM-H-342 Dratus : DIRECT - PSV(EO)/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [34pts]
      SGM-H-353 Scram : DIRECT - CMD/HOJ(RADAR) - HEKP [44pts]

[wicked mirage]

Oh, oops xD

[dire harness]

ya!

[tulip vault]

<@&942093958551588904> anyone up for a pub game or two?

[junior heron]

sure

[wet root]

Don't mine launcher costs compound?

[junior heron]

spectating an abyssal pub game

[wet root]

O no

[junior heron]

oh no...

@wary flame

pubulous gaming

[wet root]

Nine MNs?!

[noble zodiac]

three battleships and a yub CL

gods

[wet root]

I suppose the base cost is only 175 points

But still

Also Yub CL vs CLN on Abyssal

Playing Cold Waters over here

[noble zodiac]

ITS ON ABYSSAL???!??!

what the fuck

[wet root]

Lmao

[junior heron]

lead MN

the other 8 MN

[wet root]

They have DCX?!?

[noble zodiac]

WHAT

[junior heron]

HoJ primary

[wet root]

Or I suppose a Large or two Reinforced

[junior heron]

one large

[wet root]

And a rapid I guess

Admittedly thr salvo of nine bombshells is hilarious

[supple sonnet]

Massed c90's is not the worst idea ever for a fleet, though it's not that good on it's own

[wet root]

Rip swarms

Shame about the ANS comp though lol

[junior heron]

the status of the 1 (one) mass driver on OSP team:

[supple sonnet]

HESH doe meen thigns to a BB if you can mantain fire on them, but it;s abyssle

[wet root]

I think you want plas if they're bowtanking you too?

[supple sonnet]

Nah IWRC HESH ignores armour angaing like HEI

[wet root]

Wait I just noticed sig:minimal and lack of reactor, do these things not have radar?

[wary flame]

incredibly normal ships, wonderful

[wet root]

Oh huh. Still feel like you'd run into the "gales on the nose" issue where you just remove the tip of the BB but it keeps everything important

But I've also not had any experience in that matchup

I suppose plas doesn't help with that anyway

[glad aurora]

the BB with 10,000 flak

what an incredible pubulous moment

[tulip vault]

that's not a bb

it's an LN

[glad aurora]

i

what

[supple sonnet]

yeah though they seem to reach deeper then gales, and the spread is enough to hit the cheaks and spread the damage out a bit more

Lark (They/Them) ↩️

[Reply to:](#1164000873031151637 message) Oh huh. Still feel like you'd run into the "gales on the nose" issue where you just remove the tip o…

[wet root]

Ah, gotcha

They also have 60 damage rays IIRC so they can break through reinforced stuff that gales would stop on

[wet root]

I don't think you can fit this much ammo in one mag in a BB lol

That's 134 points of flak and 70 points of 450, in case anyone was wondering

[wicked mirage]

Me watching this game

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/041/205/1d2.gif

[tulip vault]

thanks for the games everyone :)

[junior heron]

you too

[tulip vault]

double axfords really is so satisfying

I get to just right click on tracks

also the sidearm axfords look incredibly cool

[arctic magnet]

sidearm Axfords are ones with 120mm secondaries?

[tulip vault]

yeah

there's a few names for them but that's the only one that really makes sense to me

[misty storm]

Are activer decoys still useful?

[wicked mirage]

Yar

[junior heron]

yeah, you just need to turn radar off now so the ARAD follows the decoy

[tulip vault]

They still work but honestly since Ive started bringing them Ive been shot at with more gales as OSP (twice) than I have as ANS (never)

@wicked mirage you’re the maestro of amms, do you happen to know if they work on mines properly?

[wicked mirage]

Mines have 40 HP so you need at least a Size 2 warhead on a S1 missile be it Blast Frag or EL Frag in order to score a kill with a single successful damage roll.

[grand pine]

how do you fit a size 2 warhead on a size 1 missile

[wicked mirage]

All Mine variants have 40 HP as well.

[tulip vault]

Oh but they do properly detect them?

[wicked mirage]

Missiles have a ratio of engine size to Warhead size. An S1 missile can have up to 6 ticks of Engine with a minimum of 1 tick of Warhead, and a minimum of 3 ticks of Engine with 4 ticks of Warhead. In this case a "size 2 Warhead" is shorthand to refer to 2 ticks on Warhead on a S1 missile.

[wicked mirage]

Mines are categorized as Size 3 Conventional missiles in the Defensive Missile guidance settings, alongside Containers and Torpedoes. There is currently no way to get an AMM to automatically distinguish between these 3 types of missile.

[tulip vault]

Mm, alright, makes sense

Those categories, do they determine what the AMM will trigger on? Or just what it will be launched against

[wicked mirage]

It should be noted that Hot Launched AMM's have difficulty engaging mines due to the PD Controller's inability to account for fuel loss due to hot launch's initial course correction after it leaves the tube. Leading hot launched AMM's to run out of fuel and fail when shot automatically near their max range at untriggered Mines.

[wicked mirage]

Just what it will be launched against.

[tulip vault]

Sweet

My s2 anti-mine cruise amm is indeed worth testing

Thanks pyrope :)

[wicked mirage]

Of course, happy to help

[junior heron]

my main concern is that "successful damage roll."
could just be bad AMMs or bad luck on my part but I feel like the mines never take damage from AMMs.

[wicked mirage]

Stationary untriggered mines have random orientations and so I believe Blast Frag struggles to get a successful damage roll due to the high probability of getting a "side aspect fuze"... despite the mine being stationary. EL Frag circumnavigates this somewhat.

[junior heron]

yeah, that was my theory

guess I'll just stick to beaming them

[wicked mirage]

Heh, beaming them works.

[tulip vault]

It’s bizarrely effective

[wicked mirage]

2 Floodlights and an ARR with a Sarrisa will let you take out untriggered Mines at 5-6km, just some food for thought ^^

[tulip vault]

That is pretty sweet

The current problem Im trying to solve though is uh

@wary flame what do you call it, the five finger point exploding palm technique? Or something

Anyways I don’t love having to take every corner at 3+ kilometres, and I have a lot of VLS2s sitting unused save for killjoys

So a cruise amm in there that could at least warn me of it would be cool, if it works

Which remains to be seen

[wary flame]

I called it the Hand Trap/Crawling Hand Trap, but Five Finger Point Exploding Ship Technique has caught on

[arctic magnet]

beams are just big Auroras

[tulip vault]

I do like handtrap more

[wicked mirage]

This is a cool idea, I like it ^^

I'd recommend Ex-ACT just so you get the widest, biggest detection cone.

EO is technically wider, but I wouldn't pay for EO for this xD

Another thing you can do to clear a minefield, albeit extremely risky, is to intentionally trigger a minefield while mashing shift-z to drop a ton of Chaff. Triggered mines only have simple ACT seekers once activated by their magnetic proximity triggers.

[junior heron]

yeah, I've done that once or twice

[wicked mirage]

hehe

[sharp crow]

time to demand that mazer implements cruise chaff

[tulip vault]

Ive certainly tried that

It uh

Hasn’t worked

Honestly what mazer should do is make a 20 point active decoy with a big magnet strapped to it so it triggers mines

[wicked mirage]

Here's a question, how many points would you pay for a Frig specialized in going around corners to check, detect, and clear any mines? And, what else would you want the Frig to do in order to justify taking it on the chance there's no mines in a game?

I've made a Minesweeper Frig or two, but the idea hasn't really taken off yet cuz I think it's too specialized.

[tulip vault]

I wouldn’t be willing to pay more than like

A hundred points, honestly

[junior heron]

thing is I'd want a corvette that can sweep the small 5-points

[tulip vault]

Which is why I want this amm to work lol

[junior heron]

because that's my usual case where mines are a significant problem

[wicked mirage]

I see, lol

[junior heron]

i've tried sticking an aurora on the front of one

but power's expensive

[tulip vault]

Yeah Im with tom on this, the big out in the open minefields slow me down but I have rpf so they don’t do much more

[tulip vault]

Did it shoot down the mines?

[junior heron]

no

[tulip vault]

😔

[wicked mirage]

Hmm, what about an Escort Frig you could detach from a Capital in order to be a "Canary" to check for mines around corners?

[tulip vault]

In my experience that’s very unreliable

If there’s a second trap laid at a slightly different spot youll lose the frigate and your actual ship

[junior heron]

i'm not concerned with my capital getting hit is the thing, it's my corvettes trying to cap the 4th point when the game's at 600/800 that's the real use case

[wicked mirage]

Aha, what if the Frigate survived the first trap tho?

[wicked mirage]

Ahh gotcha, so you want a capping Corv that can survive mines?

[tulip vault]

If you can show me the magic pd net that shoots down 5 staged sprint mines I will gladly put it on every ship I have lmao

[wicked mirage]

[junior heron]

15 aurora battleship:

16?

14?

i dunno

[tulip vault]

I think you can get 11 and still have real beams

So probably 14

[wicked mirage]

I'm gonna build something really cool right now, give me like 20 mins.

You guys are gonna love it!

[junior heron]

on the reverse, I feel like I have no interest in building any OSP fleet
nothing of theirs is as interesting to build around as ANS tools, to me

[wicked mirage]

Have you tried Bulkers with Mixed Container/S2 backpacks? They're really fun.

You queue up 2 Support 'Tainers with Decoys, and then fire the MLS's right when they launch.

[tulip vault]

I have 3 OSP fleets which work and 4 which are fun

[junior heron]

lol

[tulip vault]

But I really just can’t think of anything new to do with them right now

Cannons on OSP feel extremely sad right now, other than 100mm and 250 when paired with plasma

[wicked mirage]

Wanna see some of my OSP fleets?

Some of them are pretty quirky xD

They work good too

[junior heron]

sure

I guess that's not true, I enjoy the box boat

[tulip vault]

You should bring it more, I really like your CLN

It’s cool as hell

[wicked mirage]

450/Torp LN /w Anti-S3H AMM's and two Grazer Shuttles with T20's to screen and augment the Bulker's existing PD. Also features an Intel MN with EWR + LRT, and 2 Gun Shuttles to cap. Escort can be detached later on to cap as well.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Royal Pumpkin (LN+Intel+Cap)' is composed of 6 ships that cost 3000 points:

      Royal Pumpkin : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD Sensor Ewar]
Princess Candy Corn : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Sensor]
     Friendly Ghost : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
       Kind Specter : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD Gun]
  Dancing Scarecrow : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
     Little Lantern : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-177 Orichalcum Barrier : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
      SGT-365 PUMPKIN BOMB : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[wicked mirage]

Mixed 450/MD LN /w Container + S2 combo backpack. Also features an Intel mixed radar MN and a pair of capping Shuttles.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'Queen Pom (450 LN+Intel)' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

  QUEEN POMEGRANATE : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun Rail PD Sensor]
       Madam Liechi : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [PD Missile Sensor]
     Dancing Durian : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
Dervish Dragonfruit : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
          CM-466 SKELETIZER : CRUISE - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [9pts]
 CM-S-4-3 POMEGRANATE SEEDS : DIRECT - CMD/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [27pts]
            SGM-171 Esunaga : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [5pts]
 SGM-177 Orichalcum Barrier : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
SGM-236 POMEGRANATE GRENADE : DIRECT - CMD/ARAD(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]

[wary flame]

"Pom" is an Aussie nickname for Brits so I did a quick double take there

[junior heron]

lol

[tulip vault]

Do you happen to have the hidden fleet stats mod installed pyrope?

[wicked mirage]

And then for something truly... inspired, this is a multi-mission radar equipped Ocello geared for Orbital play to hunt down and kill Sprinters and Frigs sitting up high to scout/spot for their team. Also features a combat LN in order to have a semblance of sanity.

[lime jungle]

Fleet 'The Angry Melon (Deranged)' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:

THE GIANT WATERMELON : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun EWar Sensor Missile PD]
        VIOLET GOURD : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Plasma PD Gun Sensor]
         Hollow Seed : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
         Cracked Nut : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [PD]
```This fleet uses 5 different missile types:
```yaml
             SGM-103 Ember : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
         SGM-11 Pixie Moth : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-177 Orichalcum Barrier : DIRECT - CMD - HE FRAG [9pts]
       SGM-206 Hedge Apple : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [12pts]
        SGM-207 Crab Apple : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [10pts]

[wicked mirage]

Yar!

[tulip vault]

Would you mind checking the RPM of the 450 on that liner in that case? Im sadly not at my computer or Id do it myself

[wicked mirage]

Which one? Pomegranate or Pumpkin?

Or both?

[tulip vault]

Is the pom not MD’s?

[wicked mirage]

Pom has 3 C65's and 1 MD.

[tulip vault]

My reading comprehension is 0

[wicked mirage]

hehe

all g

[tulip vault]

I saw one MD and just assumed the rest were, like it was a normal ship

[wicked mirage]

[tulip vault]

But no I was more curious in the pumpkin

[wicked mirage]

The MD is to red things out and kill thrusters, the 450 is to then follow up and kill.

[wicked mirage]

Ok! One moment

[wicked mirage]

4x C65 /w 3 AE + 1 RCC = 25.49 RPM.

Swapping the 1 RCC for a 4th AE results in a slight decrease of RPM to 25.32

[tulip vault]

Wait that’s it?

Really?

…huh

This isn’t a criticism of your shipbuilding btw

This looked like a very optimised 450 liner and I haven’t seen one in a while

[wicked mirage]

I know lol, yeah C65's have high alpha but low DPS.

[tulip vault]

But that’s less than a bowtank axford with a reasonable amount of AEs…

I think Ive figured out why 450 liners feel really sad wow

I could’ve sworn they were closer to 40 rpm

[wary flame]

nope

this is why I keep saying that plasma is load-bearing for OSP as a faction

[tulip vault]

Yeah I think Im on that boat as well now

[wicked mirage]

Naw, unfortunately even with 4 AE's and 2 RCC's a Bulker with 4x C65's caps out at 30.77 RPM.

[tulip vault]

Because the alpha like… isn’t enough, one salvo from a bulker can’t really knock out anything important on an axford

Much less a solly

[wicked mirage]

And that's with taking out the Radar for more dakka

[tulip vault]

Damn

Maybe osp does need a buff lmao

[wary flame]

an evening out, perhaps

[wicked mirage]

I don't think 450 Bulkers need a buff IMO. The game is balanced with their output in mind. You can get a 450 Bulker with a full suite of buff modules and good DC for around 1k points, whereas an Axford with a similar amount of sauce and garnish is more like 1.7k

[wary flame]

but I didn't much like the suggestion to just cut plasma to 6k range and change nothing else

[wicked mirage]

I'm personally a fan of nerfs over buffs. I live in constant fear of power creep xD

[tulip vault]

The last thing OSP needs is a plasma nerf, yeah

It really doesn’t do much past 6k anyways

[tulip vault]

Mm, I dunno

I think 1.7 is too high of a benchmark for a nice axford

[wicked mirage]

That's fair, I really like to gas up my Axes xD

With all the garnish

and gold leaf

Proly more like 1.6k

1.5k you gotta trim a lot of corners IMO.

[tulip vault]

And even three 450 liners, if Im doing my napkin math right, barely out damages two normal axfords

[tulip vault]

1.5 does feel a little sad yeah

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, that sounds fine to me? Just my perspective.

[tulip vault]

I mean the thing is that it’s not that much more damage and the axfords are way tougher

Like bulkers can zombie, and casemates are tough

[rigid bison]

Simply make 450 liners better (fire rate, less time cycling, ect) to compensate for the fact that axfords and sollys have their raw toughness to save them

[wicked mirage]

I think engagement range matters here. Axfords will win the fight early but unless they get into cover and repair they'll degrade quickly whereas OSP has more fresh hulls to throw at the problem.

As a 450 Bulker player, I really don't think they need help xD

[tulip vault]

I dunno, maybe every pub lobby Im running into just is having skill issues but 2/3 times against 450 liners Ive felt like I can just kinda drive into their face with two sidearm axfords and melt them

[wicked mirage]

Also, if you burst the Ax then it might not win the fight early either lol

[wicked mirage]

Yeah, Sidearms are why. The Mk62 has the highest raw DPS of any ANS cannon. The only thing holding it back is Armor Pen and DT.

[tulip vault]

Yeah

Id rather make 450 liners better in response to that than try and nerf 120s

I do not think I should be able to facecheck liners over 7km of open space