Sadly we will have to pass for now
#Nebulous: Fleet Command
supple sonnetBOT
wary flame
I'm down to stackulous pubulous
wicked mirage
I could do a game yeah
junior heron
sure
wicked mirage
Activity 1?
pliant dove
(this literally just happened btw)
quiet quiver
YES
plain ice
You guys mind if I just lurk?
I unfortunately can’t run nebulous properly on my laptop but I still like the game
junior heron
sure
junior heron
@plain ice sorry, I didn't see you there D:
Only just heard the leaving sound
I can stream if you'd like
plain ice
Only if you want to, I just had to answer a call
plain ice
junior heron
alright, if anyone else wants to hop in and spectate neb ping me and i'll move to a non-limited channel
oak shell
CL Sweep (lighting is terrible)
junior heron
my two shots of that:
rigid bison
Cursed, awful idea of the day: 250 Ocello with a missile backpack
wet root
Missile backpacks are pretty bad on Ocellos, since they don't get hybrids
Which are usually what offset being limited by channels
rigid bison
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'OakCello with full EWAR' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:
Barrage : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
Bombard : 'Ocello' class Command Cruiser [Gun PD EWar Sensor]
rigid bison
built something even weirder
wet root
I like the concept, but executionwise, please do not build a 1500 point gun capital with 0 ammo elevators
(Also double intel center only helps with redundancy)
You want a Parallax as well
wet root
Recommend chaff, you can theoretically kill HoJ with good juggling but it's very hard with just two Ocellos
And Stairlikes will just go right through jamming
wary flame
my frontlines attempting to find the CLNs
junior heron
lol
wary flame
I feel that next time I see a CLN strike launching from an area of Totally Empty Space I should just pos fire it with my BB
misty storm
this is my first attempt at a vaux/sprinter fleet with current meta PD considerations, i feel like the nearly 500 point sprinters are a bit overkill?
lime jungleBOT
this is my first attempt at a vaux/sprinter fleet with current meta PD considera...
Fleet '250 CLs + Utility Sprinters' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:
Many Fence : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
Five Darts : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun PD]
Port Kilo : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile EWar Sensor]
Elder Rib : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile EWar Sensor]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-110 Block : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-222 Ramp With Ample Head Room : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [4pts]
SGM-299 Activer Decoy : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [8pts]
wary flame
I would cut one interruptor and consolidate all the actdecoy onto one ship, plus a couple more, so that you aren't out after two salvos
also fill those excess compartments with more aux steering
more beef more good
misty storm
well i reasoned that these two groups are supposed to operate independently
wary flame
hmm, cut one reinforced each and do the same thing, I suppose
fill both compartments with aux steering and grab three more actdecoy and one more chaff each
rigid bison
KKMs removed for being out of scope but the defender “bugfix” was added (along with pavaises)
Is it still over for containers and torps?
wet root
Patch Notes - 0.3.1.20:240104-0720
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+
Changes/Features:
- Removed Kinetic Kill Mass warhead, out of scope for this patch. We'll continue experimenting with it in the near future.
- Increase Shuttle structure hitbox coverage.
- Increased muzzle accuracy of Mk61 and Mk62 cannons to 0.05 (was 0.15).
- Adjusted some Bulker and Container LN targeting volumes to better encompass the hull.
Bug Fixes:
- Fixed nonphysical ballistic raycast weapons (e.g. Defender, Pavise) physics update order resulting in almost always missing targets traveling transverse to the mount.
- Fixed NullReferenceException with the Cargo Feeder hull.
- Fixed loaded fleets in the fleet editor having overlapped badges from the previous fleet.
- Fixed LN random target selection volumes not being adjusted properly in some cases, leaving dead zones which would never be selected as an aim point.
The 20mm fix should help prevent Defenders from just whiffing entirely when shooting at salvos passing by, someone will have to test how much this impacts their ability to hit weaving torps and decoys
wary flame
Hopefully terminals still get them, if not we're going to have problems
If they do, I think this mostly just increases swarm and triple vaux/keystone durability against containers
Defender targeting logic being steadily improved has resulted in it taking a larger and larger proportion of the ANS PD slots already
junior heron
lol
supple sonnetBOT
dose structure take damage on over pen like normal or?
wet root
Should help with the "missiles hit in the nose, shuttle disregards entirely" issue
wary flame
I believe overpen hits structure, yes
Probably a good change
KKV gone, which is probably good also
tulip vault
This looks like a more detailed structure hitbox than anything else rn
wet root
That structure box might be big enough to hit with RPF
wary flame
didn't really have a potential use case unless it got the ability to reliably hit containers with CMD, in which case it would have just ruined the CLN's whole deal by ignoring decoys for cheap
tulip vault
Yeah, I like the idea but I do think containers would need to be like
I don’t want to say a threat because they’re scary
junior heron
yeah I've been doing some good work with CLN
tulip vault
I think they’d need to be extremely good and consistent for KKV to really have a place imo
wary flame
The deal with the last container update was "you are way more hardkill resistant in exchange for dying to softkill extremely easily" so you then can't really introduce a weapon that is purely a container hardkilling device without messing that up a bit
Either it's bad and you have a new useless weapon or it's good and you have no more CLN
arctic magnet
KKV gone, which is probably good also
I wanted my telephone pole S3Hs 
wary flame
The metal_pipe.mp4 S2 spam will have to wait
glad aurora
if you think about it, in the void of space, waiting in a picket at low power for a KKV strike to land is "10 hours of silence randomly interrupted by a metal pipe falling"
wary flame
local middie misses something while rebuilding axford
quiet quiver
didn't really have a potential use case unless it got the ability to reliably hi...
What did EO reliability look like? (I do remember EO is also pricey)
wary flame
nothing special if I remember correctly
you needed CMD with a bullseye lock to hit, which meant you needed 6+ bullseyes
quiet quiver
Yeah I heard about TQ severely limiting CMD KKM
(And that any radar one got fooled by decoys)
quiet quiver
No decoys, and only two banks? What's that budget spent on?
wary flame
quiet quiver
Also now KKM's "kill one container w/ direct hit" doctrine is making me wonder about viability of HEI AMM. Might need too much warhead to be good
quiet quiver
Yeah saw they were removed and was thinking about HEI as a substitute, but if they don't hit then welp
wary flame
steadily developing a cap doctrine where every push on a cap is done with one capping ship and one covering ship with missiles positioned further back
ANS can't really do that because sprinters are too damn expensive so I have rearmed my S2H frigates with Pyrope's cruise S2H and hopefully they can cover multiple sectors at once
just need to figure out whether single SSJ is enough to beat shuttle AMMs or whether I need BSSJ
the shuttle/MMT pair is an exceptionally easy-to-use unit, you just cannot contest The Vaux
spectating more games
I dislike
I dislike even more
OSP has six ocellos, three of which have all or partial plasma armament
ahhhh
quiet quiver
Torpcello real
sharp crow
if you're gonna torp something just get the cls.....
wary flame
between six ocellos there are only eleven guns and one aurora
glad aurora
whoever that is is pretty based, honestly
junior heron
that's not how you torpcello
sharp crow
bestie.....
junior heron
lol
wary flame
this is three different people
quiet quiver
OSP even has the MLS-3 to bypass channels!
wary flame
this is the most cursed oops all ocellos ever
noble zodiac
TLS-3
oh my gods and this is vanillaaaaa so it cant even be a 3-15 why the fuck would you undermount thaaaat
wary flame
Player 1: 2x Ocello but with all ballistic PD, frontlines and hangups, one with 450, one with triple plasma
Player 2: 2x Ocello with rebound/defender, 2x450 and 1xtorp turret each
Player 3: 2x Ocello with mostly ballistic PD, 2x450 and 1x plasma
and an MN fleet that got instantly missile spammed
wary flame
the BB is being plasma spammed by the ocellos, this is very silly
wary flame
they have literally no follow-up so it's fine, it's lost its Supplementary Radio Amplifiers
which it has
for some reason
one torpcello is lining up the BB
the torps are coldlaunch and have no terminals
the ocellos are winning
arctic magnet
oh right, are we doing branchulous next boat night?
junior heron
didn't really get a consensus, so I think not
arctic magnet
the ocellos are winning
battleship players smh
glad aurora
Misc is doing animal research, I see
wary flame
didn't really get a consensus, so I think not
with KKV removed I actually don't think there's anything that shoddy left on branchulous
and it's great for spectators
wary flame
defender fix might get wild but we should see
wet root
Other than the Defender fix I think it's basically all QoL fixes/improvements
And a few missile tweaks
wet root
the shuttle/MMT pair is an exceptionally easy-to-use unit, you just cannot conte...
This is why I have torps on mine, a salvo of 4 torps knocks out a Vaux, and the tug's gun can keep it down
runic torrent
Misc is doing animal research, I see
if the joke here is that public players are animals, this has atrocious vibes
got a report for this message
let's dial back dehumanizing humor vs strangers in general
tulip vault
and it's great for spectators
What’s especially good about it for spectators?
tulip vault
Ooh that is nice
glad aurora
They said something about range bands, I believe?
wet root
The lines to indicate locks also seem nice, for spectators and players
Those are what I think the height maps are
supple sonnetBOT
We are up for testulus
junior heron
given how my current ones are going, i'd love to have someone who can carry me
tulip vault
well you can't rely on me for that lmao but I'd be down when you're done yours
wary flame
the decision to put a blanket on my 3k solo BB was a good one
grand pine
wish i could join a pnet nebulous game but i am afraid i will jsut get shredded by missiles 😔 and who want the midshipman on their team anywa
supple sonnetBOT
That an like protect the middy is everyones favorite side objective
grand pine
i am too dumb to be worthy of protection
junior heron
OSP even has the MLS-3 to bypass channels!
we found the MLS-3 Ocello!
not quite visible: the plasma turret and VLS-2 on top
quiet quiver
It appears to be venting atmosphere
supple sonnetBOT
Look there is a lot of the time where we just play head empty with a heart full of violence and like it works
saper1209 ↩️
junior heron
addendum: it was an MLS-2 actually
quiet quiver
VLS/MLS combo is... intriguing
olive blade
steadily developing a cap doctrine where every push on a cap is done with one ca...
I like this doctrine and it's what I have been doing as ans really
Though I wonder if trying to beat amms from shuttles is gold plating a bit much
Most shuttles won't have a big stock so I'd either clean them up with a second volley or let the gunships do it
quiet quiver
If they brought AMMs at all
olive blade
Yeah
I guess a small box of them makes sense if you think the main way ans is stopping your cap game is missiles
quiet quiver
Yeah I it doesn't sound like a bad choice, just not a choice everyone makes
wet root
The SSJ is what, 5 points? So, not cheap, but not breaking the bank either
olive blade
Well if you want it with your s2h and don't want to do really fiddly tot it's more pricy
wary flame
I run AMMs on shuttles and it works great, and is extremely annoying when they're swatting your 22pt CMD volleys from the overwatch frigates
wet root
VLS/MLS combo is... intriguing
I actually like it more the more I think about it - for S3s, it gets you one extra missile in the volley baseline, and gives you more salvos
I still think torpcellos are a bad idea, but at least this might make them slightly less bad
supple sonnetBOT
TBF our most modern shuttle fleet has some vary full AMM boxes. but like part of that was just trying to get to 3k points on it
wet root
Hmm, I wonder how the points would look if I swapped the ACT torps on my tugs for SAH and stuck a few 1-point AMMs in the chaff box
Probably evens out across the missiles, so it's just the 15 points of Lighthouse
Which is unfortunately rather a lot when my tugs run 270ish baseline
Better softkill resistance might be worth it though
Especially with the reduction in chaff launch time
wary flame
the OSP capfleet player has brought a Nerd Bulker that is afk at the back
also five unarmed EWR/Bellbird ships, three unarmed bellbird shuttles and an acap LN with no DC
I am amazed OSP is doing as well as they are
quiet quiver
Nerd Bulker is pretty funny
junior heron
it's strictly more expensive than nerd monitor right?
quiet quiver
But I think it needs to be able to fight off sprintrs
rigid bison
intel annexes, especially stacked ones, don't...do anything, right?
mint sinew
Analysis annexes stack like other buff modules, most people don't value the diminished returns though
rigid bison
also do Scryers stack?
tulip vault
no
wet root
but 3 is
I think you mean five is a lot
(Seriously, how long does that thing take between intel packets)
tulip vault
oh gosh there are 5
olive blade
I still think torpcellos are a bad idea, but at least this might make them sligh...
That's the build I used in testing, it does do weird stuff launching sometimes tho
junior heron
@wary flame @wicked mirage I'll sit in IPS-N if you'd like to talk post-game, neb server is a bit too loud and much for me
wary flame
👍
wicked mirage
<@267391246509670400> <@158082040107892737> I'll sit in IPS-N if you'd like to t...
One sec!
wicked mirage
misty storm
im trying to figure out a vauxhall/sprinter fleet but im not sure how to do it and fit in current meta PD considerations
wicked mirage
https://tenor.com/view/entrapta-shera-excited-happy-gif-15178044
clean numbersss
wary flame
Saw a fleet earlier that was triple rail DD, cap defence Vauxhall and two sprinters and now I really want to give that one a go , the tension between going to sleep and staying up all night fleet building
quiet quiver
All that in 3k?
quiet quiver
So I guess like... 800 + 3x600 + 2x200 ish?
olive blade
also neb keeps updating the test branch, any new changelogs?
quiet quiver
Last changelog was 23 hours ago
Removes KKMs (for now), fixes a bug with defender/pavise missing on deflection shots
junior heron
```
Patch Notes - 0.3.1.20:240104-0720
+PUBLIC TEST BRANCH+
Changes/Features:
-...
notes here
olive blade
cheers
olive blade
Hopefully terminals still get them, if not we're going to have problems
doesn't seem to stop my cork torps at all
misty storm
@noble zodiac didnt you have a vaux/sprinter fleet with current meta pd?
as in active(r) decoy/interruption
misty storm
oh, i thought i saw you or someone else doing a fleet that was 2 vauxes with 1 sprinter escort each
misty storm
i did finish it tho!
post please?
wary flame
they must be pretty slim
It's compressed, but rails being rails mean you can go pretty light on them, one softkill VLS and a couple of defenders is all the accessorising needed
noble zodiac
post please?
yea 1 sec
misty storm
ok
noble zodiac
im in the debrief part of
playing a game of lancer,
neeb to find the fleet
update: found it
lime jungleBOT
update: found it
Fleet '3k - Heat From Fire (Mk 5)' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:
Dance With The Angels : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun EWar PD]
Away With Your Fairies : 'Vauxhall' class Light Cruiser [Gun Sensor Missile PD]
Until The Lights Go Out : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD EWar]
Dagger Draws The Eye : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD EWar]
Say That We Were Brave : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-10 Sliver of Hope : DIRECT - HOJ(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-20 Sliver of Hope : DIRECT - SAH(RADAR) - NONE [2pts]
SGM-222 From Dust To Dust : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[PSV(WAKE)] - HE SHAPED [5pts]
SGM-264 This Is Not A Warship : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
wary flame
do people bother with the extra channel on torp corvs?
I originally took them, but just been trying without for the last day or two and not really noticed much difference. 30pts is a lot on a 300-350pt corv so I'd leave them out.
olive blade
yeah that was my inclination
one channel feels a bit low but y'know
torps are very all or none
misty storm
thanks!
wary flame
I think I have stretched my ANS capfleet a bit much trying to get 9 ships in it and I'd do better compressing my elints into more torpcorv
They're fragile to the ubiquitous command val weave S2 tug that OSP loves, though, I'm still working on AMMs to reliably fix that.
wary flame
Aurora would do it and still insulate against rockets, but money and fire arcs would be an issue
junior heron
+PUBLIC TESTING BRANCH+
Bug Fixes:
Fixed escorts getting left behind if their top speed with thruster damage was less than 50% of the guide's top speed. Formations with engine damage will now accelerate together.
Fixed an additional case where escorts would be at 0 velocity when attempting to form up with a stopped ship.```fumbling around trying to build rail DDs
damn these things are cheap if all you want is a gun
455 for max ereg
Every Vauxhall needs the
Aux Steering
Aux Steering
Aux Steering
misty storm
@noble zodiac im curious why you have 1 jamming sprinter with the 2 vauxes and one sprinter independent?
tulip vault
<@&942093958551588904> anyone up for some pubulous?
junior heron
sure!
runic torrent
till is around and potentially up for it
olive blade
sure
runic torrent
in which case I'd love to spectate
misty storm
I could hop in later
noble zodiac
<@591746793054797825> im curious why you have 1 jamming sprinter with the 2 vaux...
because i forgor to form it up
they’re supposed to be merged
misty storm
Oh fair
oak shell
I would like to play but I'm in the middle of killing the Dweller of Dread
junior heron
@wicked mirage you're famous!
(probaly not the actual topic of the conversation, I don't think you run torp corvettes?)
noble zodiac
it rounds
oak shell
To two significant figures, that's correct
noble zodiac
to nearest
wicked mirage
<@158082040107892737> you're famous!
(probaly not the actual topic of the conver...
LOL, yeah I run Torp corvs in my capping fleet
quiet quiver
<@158082040107892737> you're famous!
(probaly not the actual topic of the conver...
Hybrid AMMs, huh?
wary flame
For my commodore game, we brought 47 ships and won by sheer weight of capfleet spam, crushingly
glad aurora
the soup new does it again
wet root
Congrats on Commodore! Shame about the admiralty's budget crunch
olive blade
when you would make commadore but all the roles are filled so you have to wait for one to retire
junior heron
they refuse to make me gold
||it was the filling up animation, right?||
wary flame
||it sorted it out in the end, yes||
fresh storm
this... thread? forum post?? didn't show up when searched for and I had to find the thread in #strategy-club and use the crosslink
amazing
anyways I'm doing the tutorials but I was visited by an idea and I gotta know: do radar seeker missiles have IFF?
noble zodiac
afaik yes
noble zodiac
... wait what would you be getting out of IFF not being a thing with that setup
like yes that's useful it helps stop ACT AMMs but
olive blade
anyways I'm doing the tutorials but I was visited by an idea and I gotta know: d...
amusingly ships that don't have a working antenna or comms on don't register as friendly for missile iff
olive blade
I thought it worked the same for radar missiles
wet root
I don't think so, IIRC radar missiles won't even go for completely dead friendlies
tulip vault
I would never have thought I'd say this, but I feel like I've been seeing a noticeable lack of capital ships on ANS teams recently
wary flame
Other than that one incident with the 2000pt Cheapomon, I think when I see them they tend to be big missile backpack 2k+ investments
There's about as many capital fleets but they're more concentrated
tulip vault
that makes sense
I mean like, as an explanation, I don't get it at all from a gameplay perspective
I've been having a lot of consistent success with 1.5-1.75k axfords + friends
I am however watching a game with an axford which has 4 barrels of 450 so maybe it's for the best
tulip vault
seperated by maybe 2 seconds
wary flame
I'm going to try making a 1.4k Axford with 120 secondaries using a lot of aux steering tank, I think it might be a useful asset if if I can fill it with enough softkill
tulip vault
my omni softkill EWAR axfords come out to 1.5 each, so I think it's 100% doable
wary flame
my omni softkill EWAR axfords come out to 1.5 each, so I think it's 100% doable
Up to 1380 before ammo and I can concievably lose some stuff, so looking good so far. For CA triple drives, would you take a raider or go double small whip?
tulip vault
hmm
my personal favourite is raider/raider/whip
but I'd probably go double whip if you're not planning on orbit dodging at every opportunity
now that raiders aren't good for permaflank I think the single raider is a lot less useful
wary flame
ammo is going to be an issue
I may need either a bulk mag surrounded by aux steering or two mags
one mag, might be all right but it's tight
wary flame
what do you use it on, just Ocellos?
wary flame
can 120AP even pen MNs?
tulip vault
I don't think so
the amount of damage it deals to things which need it you could probably get away with just plainly not bringing it
but it does feel bad to plink off the armour with HE
wary flame
come on Hazel
tulip vault
hazel despises your underscores
wary flame
there are no underscores
not the fleet name then
not any callsigns or missiles either, I reset them all to stock
tulip vault
I guess hazel just doesn't like your fleets
wary flame
Hazel does not like the idea of 120 sidearm Axfords with one defender each
wet root
I should try putting 120s on my Vauxes
I should use 120s more in general, really
Always forget how much more dps they have than 250s
tulip vault
yeah
they can't hit monitors which is a big deal, but otherwise 120s are pretty darn good
formal tiger
big fan of 120s
wet root
My mindset tends to be "put a 120 on if it doesn't fit a 250" but that's definitely not a sensible approach
Though I might need to swap my disco ball for a missile backpack for anti-Monitor work if I do put 120s on my Vauxes
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Sidearm Axfords' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:
Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-208 Pinball Champion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [10pts]
SGM-210 The Kimball : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
wary flame
aha
if what I changed last is any indication it was the fire group names
cursed almost-all-softkill axfords with one defender on the bottom to catch stuff that is approaching from the angle most likely to occlude chaff behind the ship
ammo count is very tight but there's not budget for a second mag if I want robust softkill
tulip vault
the aux steering block is so cursed
in like, a conceptual way I think it actually makes a lot of sense
glad aurora
being functionally impossible to kill nose-in is hilarious, but a bit strange
wary flame
the 120 axfords have the niche upside of automatically bowtanking because they want to direct all their guns at the same target
wary flame
excellent missile names
new frontiers in fucked-up ocello design
it has a prowler, a sig scrambler and a bulk mag
junior heron
@wary flame what's your usual torpedo design look like?
wary flame
will get it for you after this game is over
I'm watching
I discovered that double disco ball actually does jam torpcello at normal ranges
quiet quiver
That's a 250 casemate, ye?
noble zodiac
new frontiers in fucked-up ocello design
oh my gods
he has no PD
tulip vault
truly the bulk liner of ocellos
wet root
They could have a chaff box and a disco ball hidden on the other side
I bet they don't
But they could!
tulip vault
it's still an ocello, not mounting sarrissas or at least auroras is such a waste imo
wet root
Yyyeeeaah
wary flame
they had another 250 casemate on the other side
wet root
Bonus points if you don't mention to your team that your Ocello is pdless
tulip vault
like far be it from me to disparage off-meta choices but the opportunity cost is huge
tulip vault
they had another 250 casemate on the other side
wonderful
wet root
At least they're ready if they get flanked
wary flame
@junior heron these are my current gucci torps
my others are mostly just seeker swaps on this one since it works fine, and I got the engine on this from the Crysknives
junior heron
is that 10/4 or 9/5
wet root
Hm, maybe I should drop the speed on mine, that 5k range looks nice
Btw, reminder that I'll not be there to set up the server for boats, so someone will need to host
misty storm
I’ll be missing miss game 1 maybe game 2
olive blade
I discovered that double disco ball actually *does* jam torpcello at normal rang...
In testing I found that single disco did tbh
runic torrent
<@&942093958551588904> boat night open!
oak shell
ooh I can make boat night today!
olive blade
yeah I'm around gimmie a mo
junior heron
non-zero chance we can just raid the public test server
wet root
Just make sure everyone hits ready after game instead of leaving
Or you might get randoms joining
supple sonnetBOT
We might be on latter, but we cant make it right now
junior heron
@wary flame are you spectating or actually in a game right now?
wicked mirage
I can't play again today sorry gamers x.x I need to nap for my DnD game, my sleep schedule has been super messed up lately
junior heron
@wary flame mind if I ask you for your cap fleet?
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Cleric Capfleet Acap' is composed of 9 ships that cost 3000 points:
Cleric Of Solomon : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile PD Sensor EWar]
Cleric Of Mammon : 'Raines' class Frigate [Missile PD Sensor EWar]
Penitent : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
Mendicant : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
Templar : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
Hospitaller : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Missile Gun PD]
Heretic : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor Gun PD]
Apostate : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [Sensor Gun PD]
Sacrifice : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 6 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-100 Commodity Money : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [2pts]
SGM-101 Ceremonial Arming Missile : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-H-266 Ki Rata Strike : DIRECT - CMD/SAH(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [14pts]
SGM-H-267 SACRED TECHNIQUE - RELIEF : DIRECT - CMD - NONE [15pts]
SGT-358 Gom Jabbar : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [13pts]
SGT-358 Wierding Way : DIRECT - ARAD(RADAR)/ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [12pts]
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Sidearm Axfords' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:
Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-208 Pinball Champion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [10pts]
SGM-210 The Kimball : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
wary flame
ok, re-engineered this with more ammo
act-decoy and killjoy count is lower than I'd like but hopefully enough to convince a CLN to fuck off
wet root
<@&942093958551588904> Conquest is looming on the horizon, bristling with spikes of limited ship designs. In order to prepare (and also since it's just fun), I propose another Fleet Swap Night on the 13th.
For those unfamiliar, each player submits up to 2 OSP fleets and up to 2 ANS fleets beforehand (submitting fleets is not required). During each game, players are randomly assigned two fleets for their faction, from which they choose one to play.
olive blade
ah piss I logged in to neb on my lappy to test if an idea I had could fit
and I think its synced all my old fleets that I removed back into my steam
tulip vault
<@&942093958551588904> Conquest is looming on the horizon, bristling with spike...
were you thinking of doing another shared google drive folder?
wet root
I can't set one up right now, but that'd work
Or if people just post the fleets here I can compile a zip
tulip vault
does discord think this an evil message to send
lime jungleBOT
does discord think this an evil message to send
Fleet 'Tron - OSP 2' is composed of 5 ships that cost 3000 points:
Rhyfelgi : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Gorchfygwr : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Ymerawdwr : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD Sensor]
Gorsedd : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
Amddiffynfa : 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor [Missile PD]
```This fleet uses 4 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-432 Morthwyl : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [13pts]
SGM-121 Fflowlyn : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE FRAG [4pts]
SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-133 Cyllell : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
lime jungleBOT
does discord think this an evil message to send
Fleet 'Tron - ANS 1' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:
Anadl y Gorllewin : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar Sensor PD]
Anadl y Dwyrain : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar Sensor PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-133 Cyllell : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
lime jungleBOT
does discord think this an evil message to send
Fleet 'Tron - ANS 2' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:
Rhyfelgi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar Sensor PD]
Melin Gwaed : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [PD Beam]
Llygad y Dydd : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Sensor]
Rhosyn Marw : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 3 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-133 Cyllell : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
SGM-133 Cyllell Block II : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [4pts]
tulip vault
no! my files shall pass unhindered
lime jungleBOT
does discord think this an evil message to send
Fleet 'Tron - OSP 1' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:
Rhyfelgi : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD]
Gorchfygwr : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD]
Ymerawdwr : 'Bulk Freighter' class Line Ship [Missile Gun PD]
Llygad y Dydd : 'Shuttle' class Clipper [Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
CM-432 Morthwyl Block II : DIRECT - CMD - HE SHAPED [13pts]
SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
tulip vault
oh god
wet root
Lmao
tulip vault
maybe the drive makes more sense
supple sonnetBOT
Hazle!
wet root
Yeah hadn't considered Hazel, if someone could set up a drive that'd be helpful
wet root
oak shell
It's the same drive as before but I removed the old fleets
Let me know if you still see fleets in there
wet root
Feel free to name your fleets whatever btw, just include your name somewhere or let me know which fleets are yours
tulip vault
seems empty to me
wet root
And I'll add 'em to the fleet roller
rigid bison
can I submit mine even if I know I can't play (have an ongoing Stellaris campaign)?
wet root
I think there was some leaning towards limiting submissions to people who'll be playing
So probably better not to if you know you won't be there
If you're unsure, feel free to submit, I can just pull them from the list in the roller easily enough
fresh storm
is there a way to queue orders like "execute in 20 seconds"?
also I don't believe the game ever says what intelligence is
I can make an educated real life guess but the game term is a mystery to me
olive blade
its how fast enemy tracks get identified and how much detail you get on them
broadly the team just needs one intel centre and you are good
(identification happens in a bunch of stages)
worthy bane
<@&942093958551588904> Conquest is looming on the horizon, bristling with spike...
I'd be down, but I'll hold off on ship submissions until I can actually make it
tulip vault
is there a way to queue orders like "execute in 20 seconds"?
no
except movement orders, you can string those together but not in like
a time way
in a waypoint way
topaz jolt
Awww I missed boat night for my sleeps of 2 hours.
tulip vault
has anyone had any success with beam axfords recently?
junior heron
no but you've inspired me to try and make a beamford fleet
tulip vault
:p that was almost the opposite of what I meant to do lmao
I've had more than one game in the past week where a beamford jumps out at like 3-4km against my 450 liners and just keels over and falls apart
And I was wondering if anyone had been doing better than that lol
fresh storm
are there recommended readings for learning the game? I think I can figure out the nitty gritty of design myself but stuff like what's a "normal" fleet comp
tulip vault
the starter fleets are pretty good as examples honestly
they're for the most part perfectly competent fleets
junior heron
I think they're lacking in the softkill department, so learning how to build that is a pretty good starting point
(softkill being defeating missiles without shooting them down, usually by jamming out their seekers or deploying decoys. dunno how much you do or don't know)
tulip vault
that's true
junior heron
beyond that, "normal" fleet comp ranges from one battleship to up to 10 shuttles+tugs+monitor fleets, so mostly it comes down to finding what level of micro you're comfortable with
fresh storm
I have a good understanding of the underlying concepts but zero of how this specific game executes them
all I know is that I'm osp
tulip vault
as in the underlying concepts of softkill?
tulip vault
ah
well the game executes them pretty close to how you'd expect they work
radar mechanics are a bit simpler than real life
quite a bit, actually
fresh storm
if I understand things correctly, while comms are up a ship doesn't need any radar of its own because it'll get all the data beamed?
tulip vault
uh
well something still needs to be tracking it
but yeah radarless ships are a thing
fresh storm
and do fire control radars lend their accurate readings to allies or are they just purely "buffs this ship's guns"?
tulip vault
all tracks are shared across ships with their comms up
there's very few things that are local tracks only
so, yes
fresh storm
oh I just remembered a very important thing
I need to fuckin
print a reference for naval directions and glue it to my wall
I've been exposed to sailor speak on a regular basis for the last 10 years and I still haven't committed what the fuck a starboard stern is to memory
tulip vault
I mean
that's not all that important in this game tbf
like I group my guns like that but otherwise
tulip vault
starboard = the other one
sly glade
then the one that is not port is not left
now, the ones I struggle with are ventral and dorsal
junior heron
port is a red drink
there's no port left in the bottle
sly glade
rip
tulip vault
or if your brain is irrevocably broken you remember left and right based on port and starboard
(my brain is irrevocably broken)
fresh storm
I managed to remember ventral and dorsal because fish fins
junior heron
dolphins have a dorsal fin
wet root
That's how I remember it as well lol
junior heron
also just far too much time brute forcing myself to name the groups ventral/dorsal
wet root
But yeah nobody really uses those directions over voice or anything, you can definitely just name stuff "left guns" and "right guns" and be fine
junior heron
oh Lark you play flipped, do you know if the general map rangefinder flips too?
like, does 90 degrees become 270?
tulip vault
there's also no naval term for up and down which is pretty important for nebulous which makes the others sorta irrelevant
sly glade
hmm
wet root
oh Lark you play flipped, do you know if the general map rangefinder flips too?
...
Unfortunately, I also play very high FOV, so the numbers on it are basically unreadable
sly glade
I feel like that's a different thing entirely?
Up and down are important in Nebulous in the same way east and west are, not left and right
tulip vault
in what way are east and west important?
sly glade
It's definitely awkward that we don't really have good non-subjective terms for those axes, though
tulip vault
oh I see
wet root
Call them "space up" and "space down"
tulip vault
"not the enemy's gate" "the enemy's gate"
sly glade
haha
tulip vault
but yeah I get your point
junior heron
zenith and beneathith
sly glade
beneathith
junior heron
it's perfect
sly glade
ideally pronounced with the mightiest lisp you can manage
wet root
@fresh storm Jdee's tutorials are a bit outdated but I think still pretty good https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8VCvOHfHA1L2o5ozHmF3vclqJkI-aoyP
junior heron
oh
junior heron
i don't know these things
tulip vault
the problem is those have different space meanings
junior heron
Tron my zenith suggestion is based entirely off a wikipedia diagram, which I realize now is directly under another diagram that does include a nadir label
fresh storm
Unfortunately, I also play very high FOV, so the numbers on it are basically unr...
this made me crank my fov up to 90 out of curiosity and honestly? I'm immediately better oriented in space
tulip vault
Tron my zenith suggestion is based entirely off a wikipedia diagram, which I rea...
:p
nadir is just like, one of my favourite words lol
wet root
Yeah I really like the high FoV, it just means you can't read the names on the arrows in deployment
tulip vault
I don't understand how people play on high fovs, I'm on like, 30-35 and any more makes everything unitelligable for me lol
wet root
Simply Do Not Read
wary flame
I think if you're doing it seriously you want to use left, right, up and down to represent the actual directions on the map given your spawn orientation and port/starboard/dorsal/ventral do describe which way ships are pointed, but nobody actually does that.
Directions are usually done by talking about the objective zones or particular terrain features associated with them, you'll push under A rock or past B pillar
fresh storm
is the CPU worth anything for learning?
tulip vault
maybe for the muscle memory of hotkeys and clicking on ships
wary flame
It's very bad, it just drives vaguely in the direction of a point with all its ships in a huge ball firing everything
tulip vault
but otherwise no not at all
wary flame
but it's OK for the basics of "here's how to bowtank, here's what ammo to use"
tulip vault
one tip I'll give: rebind the move hotkey
wary flame
"here's how to counter jamming"
tulip vault
I think it's still M by default and that is way out of the way
wet root
It's good for familiarizing yourself with the basic controls
quiet quiver
zenith and beneathith
Zenith does have an actual antonym, it’s nadir
Funny tho to use Latin for up/down and English for the lateral compass points
Oh they’re actually from Arabic (by way of Middle Latin)
fresh storm
mine stat sheet says they support TRPs 
junior heron
lol
runic torrent
next boat night is on <t:1705176000:F> <t:1705176000:R>
runic torrent
next boat night is on <t:1705176000:F> <t:1705176000:R>
tulip vault
this is going to be a good game
tulip vault
(it drip fed rocket containers into PD all game)
wet root
Is that plasma?
tulip vault
no just pavises
wary flame
somehow managed to lose this match despite eating an entire vaux fleet and an entire keystone fleet and having the remaining enemy completely pinned
the rocket shuttle player suicided ten shuttles in the first five minutes, laid a ton of sprint mines that didn't do anything and then complained the MNs and LNs killing everything were being too passive
sharp crow
that's the pub life
fresh storm
MN/LN?
wary flame
might want a pavise on these because I did eat a couple of torpedoes
Monitor and Bulk Freighter respectively
the latter also known as a "liner", hence the two-letter abbreviation
fresh storm
hm, I've been winning pretty consistently against the AI but I think that's 100% down to it being that stupid
I had a pipe dream of a container bulk freighter but 8 containers feels like barely enough for one strike and then it's just wasted space on my hull
olive blade
when roof guns were good there was a build for that
but I think its a bit awkward now
arctic magnet
I had a pipe dream of a container bulk freighter but 8 containers feels like bar...
containers on bulkers can be useful, but not as a main weapon
I have a few decoy containers on mine
olive blade
yeah I think a container backpack is an option, or utility containers
tbh even empty container banks are nice extra armour for 5 pts
fresh storm
I don't really have a feeling for guns yet
when a container hits I can tell that they did not enjoy that
but even when I have a barrage of plasma and 450mm plus some other stuff going on for minutes I can't tell if the enemy is being damaged or not
olive blade
yeah it gets hard to tell, in general plasma is in an awkward space atm
but 450 generally messes stuff up its hitting
honestly
it can be really hard even for experienced players in general to see how much damage you are doing with things
railguns are especially notable where getting railgunned is miserable and turns your ship to 9999 fires
but when you are shooting people its like "am I doing anything?"
supple sonnetBOT
The only time you you will ever know for sure you did something whit rails is when you inflect the spread debuff on a beamer while it's fiering, or the damage debuff on a beemer that is shooting you
tulip vault
???
noble zodiac
what the fuckulous
sharp crow
truly unassailable
tulip vault
we're actually playing tug of war and other than some bizarre fleet designs it's really fun
very different from control
tulip vault
i think it's probably closer to what it seems mazer's design goals are at least
given, yknow, conquest is gonna run on it lmao
wet root
Tug of War definitely seems better when retreat is an option, it just loves to become deathmatch otherwise
Though that might be a matter of 1k being too many points now that I think on it
Should try ToW on 500
Or maybe even 250, thinking about how much of a gap usually opens in control
wary flame
My record for a semi-serious game control win is something like 650pts, I don't think 500 is a margin you'll hit very often but I could see maybe 350
glad aurora
Nah, it's accurate
The best way to "obtain and ensure control of the combat area" is by making sure there's nothing alive with a hostile IFF in said combat area
quiet quiver
Also note that because points go up and down at the same time, tug of war margin will be twice what control margins would be
noble zodiac
yea tug of war forces you to hold your territory/points
as opposed to just taking them
you can’t get a cascading runaway advantage early on, you have to hold on
tulip vault
I mean, intensely anecdotal here but this tug of war game didn't really turn into just a deathmatch, though I do think it is much more interesting when retreat is possible
...honestly I don't know what isn't lmao
quiet quiver
Retreat technically possible, just entirely unincentivized
tulip vault
well that's a new record by about... 10k?
120mm axford, while it does get slightly owned by rockets, eats through ships and can actually like
engage the whole OSP lineup?
very cool
wary flame
I made a double 120 Ax build and it's been extremely fun
junior heron
if it gets eaten by rockets, is there any room for auroras somehow?
junior heron
that's what the main cannons and potentially backpack missiles are for
glad aurora
Ah, I see, it's not all 120s
wary flame
all four side mounts are dual 120s, so your double axford fleet basically has eight gun sprinters taped to it
since those cannot normally carry buff modules
quiet quiver
I mean, intensely anecdotal here but this tug of war game didn't really turn int...
This got my brain wandering and led to me thinking of annihilation mode w/ partial scoring so you only need to kill most of the fleet, and you could do something like retreats count halvesies
(Possibly even less than 'most')
supple sonnetBOT
Honestly 120 AP chews up a ocello faster then you can with 450. the big problem is moniters, but main guns handle those
quiet quiver
Do you go 120/450 or 120/250?
IDK how well 250 AP handles monitors but they do have that nice flat front when engaging head-on
tulip vault
some innovative ship design I've seen here
tulip vault
do they end up having better RPM than the T30?
tulip vault
if it gets eaten by rockets, is there any room for auroras somehow?
well I did some testing and uh
no not really, is my answer
you can fit them, but only in the little wing mounts, and they don't really do much against rockets there in any case
I think my strategy of try and kill anything with rockets before it gets close and failing that, strafe, tank, and pray, will have to stand for now
the escort beam DD does help though
wary flame
sharp crow
if I play this game again my rocket backpack bulkers are going to terrorise any and all 120 axfords
tulip vault
lol, lmao even
wary flame
mine have one spare mount each after the requisite equipment and both of them are currently defenders
which can occasionally clutch against rockets but your main rocket defence is just a disgusting amount of RPF
tulip vault
what's taking up the class 1s?
like, a vls, a bullseye, I assume
but past that I can't guess what the third one is used for
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
Fleet 'Sidearm Axfords' is composed of 2 ships that cost 3000 points:
Kim Kitsuragi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun Missile PD EWar]
Raphael Ambrosius Costeau : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar PD Sensor]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-208 Pinball Champion : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR)/[CMD] - HE SHAPED [10pts]
SGM-210 The Kimball : DIRECT - NONE - NONE [7pts]
wary flame
chaff redundancy
could swap one of those out for defender but they're the half-arc neck slots so meh
tulip vault
hmm, makes sense
I'm not sure about the single jammer though, unless it's just softkill reasons
wary flame
softkill and sometimes just locking out a bloodhound that got too close
I shut down an entire CLN a few days ago with just the nose blanket on my 3k S2 backpack BB
and since then I've been strongly considering having a blanket on my capitals
olive blade
yeah hmm
that ship does feel like its playing very unsafe on the missile defense front
tulip vault
this is my current 120mm ax fleet
lime jungleBOT
this is my current 120mm ax fleet
Fleet '3.0k - Omnisoftkill Axford' is composed of 4 ships that cost 3000 points:
Rhyfelgi : 'Axford' class Heavy Cruiser [Gun EWar Sensor PD]
Melin Gwaed : 'Keystone' class Destroyer [EWar Beam PD]
Llygad y Dydd : 'Raines' class Frigate [PD Sensor]
Rhosyn Marw : 'Sprinter' class Corvette [PD]
```This fleet uses 2 different missile types:
```yaml
SGM-123 Aderyn Ryhfedd : DIRECT - PSV(WAKE) - HE SHAPED [1pts]
SGM-133 Cyllell : DIRECT - ACT(RADAR) - HE SHAPED [2pts]
olive blade
but I guess in the softkill world
wary flame
it has effectively maximum possible softkill, and then I make a deliberate greed choice to die to point blank torps and rockets in exchange for truly massive firepower
tulip vault
I don't know how it does against SAH because nobody has shot that at me in a week
but yeah I think the firepower is a genuinely okay tradeoff
wary flame
its's a greed pick but I like to think it's appropriately channeled greed because of how good these are at ripping up anything besides monitors in CQC
you can be artillery from standoff range and since at that range they can only really hit you with cruise you're fine, and in a knife fight you are very scary
tulip vault
especially given that point blank torps are basically unstoppable anyways (you can stop them but I honestly don't think the investment is worthwhile)
wary flame
Pyrope runs one of these with a dedicated PD and support CL, I'm not that sensible and just go "fuck it if they get me they get me"
olive blade
I think SAH is gonna get through but the lots of chaff from lots of angles will help
but its not the most popular fleet to be used
wary flame
sure I can, it'll go straight but it won't seek properly
unless there's about ten
in which case yeah sure you can have that
olive blade
5 illums beat like 3 blankets I found
at 6km
illuminators don't have falloff like jammers do
quiet quiver
More illums than blankets feels like a lot
tulip vault
I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 in pub games
which doesn't make it not a design flaw
but it's certainly a consideration
olive blade
I mean you can't beat everything
quiet quiver
I'm guessing 2 illums beat a single blanket?
olive blade
I don't think so
wary flame
I'm pretty sure that's dependent on range because I've absolutely done it before with one blanket
olive blade
the key is that blankets stack diminishingly and illums don't
wary flame
the blanket is mostly there for Act/[Wake] and Act/[CMD]
which are popular S2, torp and container picks
quiet quiver
Ah, so prolly more along the lines of like 3 beats 1, 4 beats 2, etc
wary flame
most SAH spam is SAH/HOJ, which I have SSJ AMMs for
I think the gaps are generally in acceptable places
olive blade
yeah
I guess its one of those things where like I use a lot of stuff that breaks that kinda defense
wary flame
and in exchange I get three fully specced up gunfrigs attached to the side of my TF Oak, because the eight twin 120s there are more heavily buffed than those on frigates and corvs
olive blade
so in my head its vulnerable
quiet quiver
I guess if you're illum-stacking you might not need HOJ at all
olive blade
but in practice against the broad metagame its probably relatively safe
HOJ is a liability
I'd rather no seeker
tulip vault
I agree
wet root
SAH/HoJ is a crutch IMO - it's easier to break jamming if they don't react well, but it's one of those things where it relies on your opponent playing poorly, rather than you playing well
quiet quiver
I wonder how good a noise filtering support module would have to be for missiles to actually make use of it
tulip vault
one that sees through jamming?
probably hilariously so
especially in these days of every missile having many seekers
quiet quiver
ARR is -0.7 dB, for reference
BRB while I check on Neb's radar/jamming model
More gain might be more useful than noise filtering
rigid bison
lmao, but also concerningly real
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
'SSM Battery Squishy' is a 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor that costs 729 points.
wary flame
playing with this design, a monitor that sits at the back not emitting until it can paint anything of Vaux size or smaller and then slap it with double weave S2s
so absurdly expensive though
wet root
I take it the S2s are CMD?
tulip vault
that is a lot of money for something with a basic cic
rigid bison
at that cost go for Reinforced/Citadel
wet root
Eh, basic is reasonable here, since on Monitors reinforceds die to missiles anyway, and they don't have much more HP IIRC
Though you will be eating fire while the missiles are in flight, but ideally it's only your target shooting you
(i.e. only 250s)
quiet quiver
You'd probably get more value out of a DC upgrade than a CIC upgrade
wet root
Issue with putting an RDC in is that MLS are very squishy
wary flame
in theory I'm 12km away and undetected, since it can see and shoot to 14k
wet root
I'm assuming you run radar off so you don't get seen by ELINT?
wary flame
yes, the Huntress is a last minute sprinter location service in case of MMT death
I have been tempted to remove it
or go down to 20 missiles and 1 launcher for more DC
but three salvoes of 8 should fuck up a Vaux so I kind of want to keep that capability
wet root
I probably would go RCIC myself in case of small missile salvos or unlucky 250AP shot
Yeah, if you can't kill a Vaux I think you're paying a bit too much for something that does nothing for a lot of the game
Have you thought about sticking a container stack on top? The extra HP is pretty notable for something as empty as this
wary flame
I actually have this version, which is cheaper and tankier but far less heavily armed
lime jungleBOT
'SSM Battery Prototype' is a 'Cargo Feeder' class Monitor that costs 699 points.
wary flame
if I cut one of my two meat shuttles or a rocket pod I could fill the new one up with RCIC/ aux steering and put some clipper decoys on the bottom
but I am trying to keep it as pared down and aggressively focused as possible because just fitting it in has already dropped my capfleet to nine ships
wet root
That reminds me that I need to boost the range on my torps for the torp box in my cap fleet
wary flame
this fleet also has a torp box
which is why i can't just deck out everything
I suppose it could be a two-launcher torp tug instead and free up points
but the torp MN beef has been so good
olive blade
but three salvoes of 8 should fuck up a Vaux so I kind of want to keep that capa...
I think rpf will definitely thin these salvoes at that range
from a vaux
so I don't think 1 launcher would work
wary flame
You just have to get them when they're shooting at something, I've done it with salvoes of 4 from MMTs before
olive blade
thats fair, its definitely a limitation though
I think I like having them be a bit tough
and just not being super greedy with not using radar, since it is basically a 14k range bullseye you have paid for
so if your team is getting jammed and stuff its good
I tried a few games of capfleet in pubs
and tbh what seems to happen is my team just dies because they lack ships
wary flame
I can make it tankier but only by either losing the forward parts of the capfleet or reducing the capability of my but fancy torp MN to a torp tugboat, which might be all right.
olive blade
hmmm yeah I dunno
I just feel like a 700pt ship that is mostly radar you want to get good use out of the radar
wary flame
Yeah, it's got 16 AMMs so it can take a volley or two under good circumstances
olive blade
yeah thats probably fine
fresh storm
what's a bacpack?
junior heron
so in general on ANS, you want to have your combat ships bow-towards the enemy because they bounce shots and present a smaller profile that way
so this usually leaves a mount masked, which is the "backpack" mount
usually you'll put a VLS there because missiles don't care about masking, but sometimes it'll be some other weapon. I've got an axford with a backpack rail for helping out across the map
I think Misc's battleship puts a beam on the backpack for knife-fighting and shuttle-swatting
quiet quiver
Oh so triple rail axford is possible? Hmm
Now I really wonder why rail BB exists
(I guess the answer is "it doesn't really")
sly glade
it used to
rigid bison
It used to, it got removed because a hard-to-kill long range combatant is not fun to fight
olive blade
Now I *really* wonder why rail BB exists
there used to be a double rail that went on the bigger mount
so the battleship could have 7 barrels and the axford 4
which along with the extra space for more modules for fire rate
gave it a bit more than double the firepower
quiet quiver
Mmm, I getcha. Somehow I thought the mk81 was the same mount size and just cheaper
fresh storm
does wake seeker work for AMMs?
tulip vault
triple threat liners but in amazing work
also pictured a mine monitor that killed an entire CA with its mines, somehow
wary flame
liners in general are extremely mean but those ones have the big burst
they're basically beamships
junior heron
@wary flame 👁️
tulip vault
they're basically beamships
Yeah, they really are
junior heron
Box Boat slowly loses programming channels as I put more and more toys on it
also, Misc and I are trying for ountnumbered
i'm not just missing this right?
the DC board doesn't have the broken P60
sharp crow
pd crew mutiny
formal tiger
they left
plain ice
Took their mandated tea break
fresh storm
observation from messing around: mine containers might be an amusingly good PD micro check
they'll pretty much always make it within 2km if not AMM'd and the mines are tiny spread out targets that nonetheless trip PD fire
they drain turrets dry
what I mean by that is deploying them 2km away from enemy positions, to make myself clear
not using them as battering rams
sharp crow
also, Misc and I are trying for ountnumbered
did you get it
quiet quiver
Not yet AFAICT
junior heron
no
we got stomped
and I made Misc sad, whic hhas in turn made me sad :(
(we re-matched against the fleet in a proper 4v4 and won pretty well though)
sharp crow
😔
quiet quiver
What did Misc run? I can see you brought box boat
wary flame
capfleet into the anti-capfleet sprinter kill squad is not a fun time
junior heron
and Misc's scouts all got hunted down by CMD missile sprinters
wary flame
anti-capfleet sprinter kill squad I think needs a nerf anyway, but normally I just get salty and continue rather than get completely overrun immediately
quiet quiver
Yeah honestly IDK if you can do the outnumbered win in control
junior heron
assuming conquest counts fleet scores, I wonder if small, in-tact fleet vs large, beat up fleet will be the way to get outnumbered
runic torrent
wet root
I feel called out
quiet quiver
I got curious to see if I could and then promptly spent entirely too much time making a Surrender DDG
Now TBF I did try and make it a well-rounded missile destroyer with actually-good (if expensive) S2Hs
I also put a railgun and intel center and saved some vls space for a few hurricanes and activist decoys
fresh storm
I'm working on an ewar/int osp fleet to coop with a friend and I feel very conflicted about the ocello
it's quite expensive to bring for just the genuinely unique ANS capabilities and that plus what they are gives me a feeling of putting all my eggs in one basket
dies of my ocello taking any damage
arctic magnet
Ocellos tend to be pretty important to an OSP fleet
they're tankier than you'd expect when they're bow on, and the PD and sensors they bring count for a lot
like, you tend to have two on an OSP team, usually? People bring in double Ocello fleets p often
fresh storm
mm
they seem to be pretty easy to make near impervious to missile strikes with little extra expense at least
worthy bane
The bonus is that that imperviousness often extends to anyone else in the vicinity
fresh storm
quiet quiver
The goon squad
runic torrent
runic torrent
@sharp crow
tulip vault
hey <@&942093958551588904> anyone for a pub game or two?
junior heron
sure!
night fable
Will be doing my viewer games stream in like 3 and a half hours
wicked mirage
I have the stomach flu x.x no games for me today 😷
tulip vault
we are currently playing lobby command
night fable
<@&942093958551588904> It's Wednesday, and that means time for more NEBULOUS: Fleet Command viewer games on my Twitch channel below! Anyone's free to join, so ready your fleets!
https://www.twitch.tv/docvivileandra
junior heron
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1B4J0AwhhIR8vontwDDUYq3_XRoX0VbyU?usp=dri...
@runic torrent could you pin this?
also, as a reminder:
<@&942093958551588904> hey all, Lark put forward the idea (and a lot of us were excited by) that this upcoming boat night can be another fleet swap
grand pine
fleet swap?
junior heron
ah
quiet quiver
There's another link to that folder w/ context pinned already, but I can re-pin it at the top above the memes
quiet quiver
junior heron
I looked through pins and glazed over it, only remembered that most recent posting of it
sorry
wet root
For those unfamiliar, each player submits up to 2 OSP fleets and up to 2 ANS fle...
A bit more context
oak shell
A bit more context
You got it boss
tulip vault
the TLS looks strangely cursed on these specific vauxhall mounts
wet root
Also because the bridge windows are right behind the TLS
It's like when you have a window advertised in an apartment listing but when you visit the window looks into a 10ft wide alley and your view is just a wall
tulip vault
oh hey like mine
(I'm not kidding, my apartment was advertised as having a CN tower view. it stares into a brick wall)
olive blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Lhqri8tZk for context on Cantaloupe Slots
its a fantastic video
timestamp for the song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Lhqri8tZk&t=7m6s
@wary flame I think would esp appreciate the video
bitter furnace
holy shit
that was the greatest GDC talk I have ever seen
absolute magnificence from start to finish
11/10
wary flame
tulip vault
Amazing
wary flame
so turns out the staging flick on an S2H on min angle lets you just wiggle clean past pavises without actually having to buy weave
just need to adjust it to the point they have enough stage range and agi to reliably hit moving shuttles
tulip vault
yeah I've noticed that as well
wary flame
OK, dodging is fine, agi is insufficient but I may have to slightly ensmallen the warhead to get the stage range in the right place
tulip vault
I am having so much fun with triple threat liners
they're like
really strong and good
maybe a bit fragile but even then not really, I still have 7 restores and aproximately 1 million modules to tank with
wary flame
got the fishtail dodge working, now I see if I can make a version of it that squeezes the speed low enough to fit into 11pts
wary flame
The Fishtail is a cheap CMD S3H with a tiny engine set to stage just outside of 20mm range and swerve around enough on Minimum Angle to dodge all but the luckiest pavise, for optimum shuttle killing. You'll lose one or two sometimes against a full squadron of pavises, but they'll handle 20mm on a single target just fine.
It's too slow to resist flak since the engine has been deliberately crippled to reduce the cost to 11pts, if you expect to be shooting at anything with a Bastion spend an extra point for a normal flak-skip S2H on Min Angle, which I've included.
Neither of these are groundbreaking but I'm leaving them here just to have standardized designs available to hand out.
lime jungleBOT
The Fishtail is a cheap CMD S3H with a tiny engine set to stage just outside of ...
SGM-H-211 Fishtail-C is a size 2 missile that costs 11 points.
lime jungleBOT
The Fishtail is a cheap CMD S3H with a tiny engine set to stage just outside of ...
SGM-H-266 Flakskip-A is a size 2 missile that costs 12 points.
wary flame
continued playing on this theme and managed to get the same effect on an S3H, albeit slightly less reliably
14pts for 2k damage, 15pts for 3k damage
might not be an awful torpedo substitute
tulip vault
that is pretty rad
junior heron
for anyone who wants to: you can add descriptions to your neb fleets by adding <Description>[text]</Description> to your .fleet file after the FactionKey
tulip vault
hey @oak shell I half recall you doing a bunch of work with the liner hulls segments, I am correct in my recollection?
unrelated, <@&942093958551588904> boats?
wet root
Sure
junior heron
sure
tulip vault
(well I guess semi-related lol)
pliant dove
No, mechs
plain ice
lurk
wary flame
spectating the next SCCC game that they invited us to and their new opponents have some interesting CC and CLN designs
olive blade
wtf
junior heron
but the CLN can mount the intelligence center ;_;
wet root
But... you can fit the triple barrel 250 on those mounts... 
olive blade
I don't buy it
junior heron
split the difference: double barrels, 120mm
olive blade
I'm around now for a game if people are
junior heron
We just finished an intense game against one of the big admiral stacks, I think most of us were done for now. Sorry Till :(
olive blade
ah well no worries
olive blade
glad you all had fun 😛
wary flame
I did 39k damage with the capfleet
tides of shuttles
skirm report for the SCCC game if anyone else wants it
wet root
The Fishtail is a cheap CMD S3H with a tiny engine set to stage just outside of ...
Just made a S3H variant of this, because salvos of 1 single Corktorp still have some difficulties with Pavises
lime jungleBOT
Just made a S3H variant of this, because salvos of 1 single Corktorp still have ...
SGM-H-315 Bigtail is a size 3 missile that costs 14 points.
olive blade
I can see that
wary flame
I actually made that too
I then accepted 1 extra point to boost the warhead to 3k damage, so it hits harder than my torps
lime jungleBOT
SGM-H-388 Fishtail-LRH is a size 3 missile that costs 15 points.
olive blade
I had to fight a player that had like 6 fancy s3h corvettes one random pub and it was annoying af
wary flame
these days the strategy that annoys me most is the stealth bombers, usually pairs of S2H corvettes with elint, bullseyes and jammers that float above the map raining down CMD on every OSP small ship while undetected
can't really missile them without full container strikes and they have enough ammo to execute full squadrons of lineships if you don't spam CMD amms back
I adopted it of course because it's good, but I do need a counter
cap fleet with mass drivers probably required
olive blade
its pretty awkward and even then they tend to hug rocks and stuff
wary flame
these ones don't, they're direct fire so they just cruise in the stratosphere with radar off, becoming basically undetectable and uncatchable
need to bloodhound and then mass driver them in the hope you can knock the missiles off, and a regular 2TC bloodhound track isn't good enough to CMD-missile them back so that doesn't work great
without an Ocello, anyway
rigid bison
Mass driver them when they are detected in the stratosphere, it’s still a spronter
wet root
It's the detection part that's the issue
Paraburn will see 'em, but good luck otherwise
wet root
I then accepted 1 extra point to boost the warhead to 3k damage, so it hits hard...
Hmm, that is a lot more boom for the 1 point, that's probably a good call
Was planning on just tapping it with a finisher torp after but 2k might not be enough to reliably ko their pd
olive blade
oh right yeah those ones, I always complete stealth bomber in my head to torp vette rather than s2h frig
wary flame
I think 2x 2k will do it for shuttles, I'm not sure which I prefer
I think at least a cheapo MD liner with AMMs or even a couple of monitors is a must-have to shut down bombers these days
olive blade
I was looking at a monitor based fleet
wet root
I think 2x 2k will do it for shuttles, I'm not sure which I prefer
Mostly what I care about is 1x S3H bringing down the Pavises on a Tug so I can bonk it with the cheap torps until it dies, since I'm putting these on my EWR/BH hunter 'vettes
Sounds like I should do more Ocelloing in pubs in the coming days
I even have 250s on my Ocellos nowadays so I can theoretically kill Sprinters!
mint sinew
I've solved stealth bombers equivalents in the past by rushing them down with a 100mm bulker and sensor support. It's not pretty but tends to get the job done
wary flame
it took me until this very second to realise that DerangedOctopus' callsign is "Eight Arms", I was always thinking "what's 8RMS meant to mean"
wary flame
Mostly what I care about is 1x S3H bringing down the Pavises on a Tug so I can b...
yeah, not sure it would do it on a tug, they have a decent amount of HE sponge
olive blade
8RMS is an shortening designed to draw people from the UK astray
junior heron
@wary flame you sitting in some other server or can I convince you to provide silly commentary from Activity 1?
olive blade
I might play some soon if you are looking for a buddy
junior heron
well this is a caltrop match so it should be over soon :P
olive blade
😛
junior heron
i'm a little sad my votemap for Abyssal failed after people complained about caltrop
quiet quiver
I bet most people haven't even tried Abyssal
fresh storm
I'm a little unclear on this and ran out of time to test before work: does the missile analysis provide info I can manually act on with the rest of the fleet, or only the automatic response to the host ship?
junior heron
it'll identify the seekers for you, which you can use for defense across the rest of the fleet
junior heron
shared across the rest of the fleet I think
mint sinew
Assuming your ship with the intel isn't currently being comms jammed, it'll be shared
bitter furnace
I'm a little unclear on this and ran out of time to test before work: does the m...
If you mean the Scryer module, it only analyzes tracks that the host ship can see itself with its own radar. But then the analysis is passed to the rest of the fleet. The Intel Centre compartment analyzes every track, teamwide, no matter where it is or who detects it, but is slower than the Scryer.
fresh storm
yeah I forgot what the scryer was called
does the intel center also identify missiles?
wet root
Yep, but slower
wary flame
lime jungleBOT
'Standard Torpedo Sprinter' is a 'Sprinter' class Corvette that costs 332 points.
wary flame
The Fishtail is a cheap CMD S3H with a tiny engine set to stage just outside of ...
here
lime jungleBOT
SGM-H-388 Fishtail-L is a size 3 missile that costs 14 points.
supple sonnetBOT
is there any way to cheese softkill? we've been thinking about something like a s2 sah/hoj spam bulker with illuminator shuttles as a way to keep things cheap and effective-idh without immediately losing everything to one radar jammer
junior heron
sah/hoj will chase SSJ amms
supple sonnetBOT
,,,, people use those?
supple sonnetBOT
damn, that's,,, a lot of points to spend on amms
junior heron
it's a single 8 points AMM that is manually fired when you prioritze PD
and it can pull an entire wave of ARAD (which includes HoJ)
they're not the usual hardkill kind of AMM
as for getting past softkill
SAH is the best bet there, but even that can lose to chaff unless you're precise with microing your illuminators, which is really tedious
junior heron
(I recommend against trying to use all s2 AMMs because the missile body has a cost, whereas s1 body doesn't)