big new space to explore
#Indie+Alternative Wargaming
twin mountain
supple shale
I am Heavy Gear’s strongest soldier and love any opportunity to evangelize for it
twin mountain
I am Heavy Gear’s strongest soldier and love any opportunity to evangelize for i...
Sure, tell me more
It's on a hex grid?
supple shale
Tactical can be but nobody plays Tactical anymore
Blitz is very much a contemporary skirmish system
twin mountain
Hmm okay
supple shale
Tactical is the way that it is because it was both a stand-alone wargame and fully integrated into the old TTRPG rules
sudden halo
AA by group.
twin mountain
What are groups?
sudden halo
Like 4-5 models, usually you have 3 or 4 groups.
sudden halo
Tactical also uses armor thresholds but damage was multiplied by your margin of success, which produces a lot of verisimilitude but is very polarizing.
I attribute it to why I can do mental math good as an adult though, Heavy Gear 2nd edition (the combo rpg and minis rules) was the first wargame I bought with my own money in maybe 2001.
Right about the time I was in pre algebra in middle school 
sudden halo
I've seen the internal playtest docs. The new edition does look much improved, though it seems a little slowed down. Current blitz plays at 150 tv and average 3 combat groups, and from what I saw it looks like blitz 4e might do better with 2 groups and 100 tv as standard. I haven't got it on the table though.
HGB uses an action point system. When you activate you declare a speed and then spend your action points. Most units have 1 but bigger things have two or three.
Most actions trigger an opposed roll, for instance shooting rolls a pool of d6 vs the targets piloting pool of d6. You take the highest number +1 for every number above your skill threshold. After succeeding you look at the margin of success.
supple shale
I would be a little bummed out if 150TV games were above par in 4e if only because I’m working on two 150TV demo armies right now
sudden halo
You take the damage value of the weapon and add the margin of success, then subtract the targets armor and that's how much damage you inflict. So solid hits are more important than hits in general, but big weapons can ignore that.
You can also spend your action points during your opponents activation to react, doing an action that generally takes place simultaneously with a few exceptions. Unlike infinity those don't go face to face, it is possible to straight trade.
twin mountain
I see
sudden halo
To me heavy gear is special because it's not generally about hit points, it's about landing solid hits and overmatching armor, which feels a bit more believable to me and makes having good pilots important. Also the reaction setting let's it split the difference between Infinity and a more standard wargame (which also means there's a decent overlap in fanbase). It's also more about the combined arms aspect as mechs as about 4m tall which means tanks are still the kings of firepower and infantry are still very relevant, but the mechs have the mobility and flexibility to be the main focus.
Blitz doesn't quite capture everything the way i liked about older editions, but it's much more accessible and solves a major balance problem. It also lets you play 12-20 units instead of 4-5. The new edition of the RPG is based off the blitz rules which may make a nice medium between the new and old and does has points costs where you could run it as a wargame. Also I have a character in the book so I'm biased towards it.
tawny sandal
So, you could say the damage system is something like…
supple shale
Very much so
sudden halo
I would be a little bummed out if 150TV games were above par in 4e if only becau...
The devs haven't indicated that it will change from 150 to 100. Just Blitz isn't exactly the fastest game and some of the changes that add detail make me think it might work better a little smaller.
tawny sandal
(Sorry I always take any excuse to post The Survivability Onion)
sudden halo
It's fair though.
supple shale
Heavy Gear is all about late Cold War combined arms peer warfare but In Space
Heavy Gear is aesthetically equal parts AT VOTOMS and watching Desert Storm on CNN
sudden halo
Yeah, gears are kind of like... Land based attack helicopters? In terms of the threat profile they present and what they're weak to.
A little more durable because they're not flying
supple shale
Like a one-man IFV, sorta
Gears do what they do best in built up areas or broken terrain
Lots of Terra Nova fits that bill, but plenty does not. Tanks will do to gears what gears do to infantry caught in the open
sudden halo
While we're talking about Heavy Gear I have to brag because I got runner up in Golden Gear two years ago with this unit i painted anime style to match the old art
supple shale
Ghislain Barbe’s art legitimately Changed my fuckin Life circa 2000
sudden halo
I feel that. Wasn't one of my biggest influences but I still love that art.
twin mountain
@sudden halo can you comment on that earlier stuff someone mentioned about a toxic fanbase?
I remember that being a problem with shadowrun
also wren have you ever tried FSD
sudden halo
<@133719010528329729> can you comment on that earlier stuff someone mentioned ab...
My understanding is there's a group of old school Heavy Gear players that are nearly entirely not visibly online at all that want the game to be exactly certain ways they want it to be and many of the improvements the designers make get met with what I've been told is some pretty vile opposition. Its not so much a concern in terms of people you would run into, even on their official discord, but its something that keeps Rob (the owner of the IP) from allowing the line developers to make some of the design decisions they would like to.
I haven't tried FSD, I saw it when it was brought up in here and it looks pretty interesting but since I'm prepping to play in the Infinity tournament at Adepticon I haven't spent much of my tabletop time on anything else in 2025 so far
twin mountain
understood! have fun at adepticoon
sudden halo
I will! I'm really excited to see what all the indie vendors have to show off and play demos of a ton of games.
clear shadow
potent wyvern
indie wargams folks i would like to pick your brains
any resources out there for makin custom scenarios?
native portal
So, you could say the damage system is something like…
native portal
My understanding is there's a group of old school Heavy Gear players that are ne...
I know a lot of old school HGB fans were not happy with the changes
Barcode quit playing it
modern snow
any resources out there for makin custom scenarios?
scenarios for what is the real question
sudden halo
Barcode quit playing it
Goes to show how if you try to balance pleasing everyone you please no one. You have people like Barc wanting to make it a better, more competitive game, disappointed because they won't change how some things work, then you have some of these old school people mad if anything changes, and you have the setting/rpg crowd kind of disappointed that they won't change other stuff, and in the end Heavy Gear is the game a lot of people want to love and kind of watch while they go actually play something else.
native portal
Goes to show how if you try to balance pleasing everyone you please no one. You ...
Yeah devs are inevitably going to fail to please some people, either because they have a different vision for the future (barcode) or they're set on the past (the grogs)
fallen rune
How did they change it?
I ask cause I’m learning I’m a sucker for competitively oriented bottled wargames
twin mountain
speaking of really cool fun competitive fight arena style wargames
I really liked godtear when I tried it
I'm kinda itching to play it more
I appreciate how tight and board gamey it is
haughty bobcat
It’s kind of sad to have been watching Guerilla Miniatures die out over these past few years
I think they have the best campaigns when it comes to YouTube reports
fallen rune
I’ll take a look it too boardgamey is not always good for me
sand sonnet
Not to mention Steamforged has an iffy rep in the wargame community
Plus the minis being that weird board game plastic.
twin mountain
Not to mention Steamforged has an iffy rep in the wargame community
yeah I'm an old guildball player myself
I just. want more clean quantized space wargames tbh
I want more aristeia in my life
measuring does not bring me joy
sand sonnet
War Chest but with minis.
sand sonnet
yeah I'm an old guildball player myself
Still have all my metal hunters models and a custom goal I made somewheres.
Not sure if the new support for it from Steamforged is going anywhere.
sudden halo
measuring does not bring me joy
I'm always on the fence as a designer on it. Measuring means more broad compatibility and less bespoke components to require your players to have. Spaces makes things much more clear (except for writing line of sight rules imo), and is a bit more accessible once it actually hits the table.
I guess the other thing is I see more "make XYZ game work without a grid" than I do "add a grid to XYZ game." But some of that is just how wargamers are, as the free measured space can intimidate other people.
potent wyvern
scenarios for _what_ is the real question
Im working on some for maleghast
Looking for inspiration
sleek trail
My hot take that i hammer on about is that while both can be wargames fundamentally the mediums of gridded and non-gridded produce entirely different game feel
Nothing wrong with either
But they are not the same
There exists now i think a healthy ecosystem of both
Which is very nice to see
Im more interested in the gridless freeform space but also i dont play games for tight interactions, i play to try and encounter a really wide possibility set
For tighter, more quantized and predictable games a grid obviously makes sense
sudden halo
That makes sense to me. There are trends of course but I can't quite put my finger on exactly why they feel different.
sleek trail
A! Would not be as good if it were gridless, infinity would not work gridded
sleek trail
That makes sense to me. There are trends of course but I can't quite put my fing...
For me its all possibility space
sudden halo
Maybe that grids always feel more game mechanics-ey, while freeform space feels more like it's intended to evoke the fiction(or history) on the table.
sleek trail
Gridded games tend to be more defined by nature
sudden halo
Possibility space is a good way to put that. Both in terms of gameplay, and in terms of imagination.
sleek trail
I think something interesting design wise would be to make freeform space games that are not measurement based. Templates are the classic way of doing this but theres def more space to experiment here
sudden halo
Though as you scale up the abstraction, the grid means less and less. An issue with grids is it kind of necessitates short ranges so you aren't counting a million squares. But if each grid space is a half a mile and each game piece is a company or battalion, then the grid isn't really restricting things - the scale of the simufiction necessitates that things are restricted.
sudden halo
I think something interesting design wise would be to make freeform space games ...
The Halo game and Deadzone kind of do something interesting with the large spaces and still using true LoS. I'm not convinced it's great necessarily but it's different and interesting.
sleek trail
Zone based, i think thats called
I should check those out
In any case, both styles have totally different design implications
Its comparable to the difference between first and third person shooters, imo
compact leaf
I want more aristeia in my life
Oh right, isn't there a digital version coming alongside a second edition this year?
haughty bobcat
Gridded games tend to be more defined by nature
I don’t like how movement generally works. Like you can move way more using diagonal movements then the game probably intended for you to move.
Hypotenuse and all that
compact leaf
Hexgrids reign supreme
modern snow
Hexgrids reign supreme
Hexagons do be Bestagons 🙂↕️
midnight vine
I saw guild ball talk
sudden halo
The future of little guys fighting is bright!
There's an ex-paratrooper turned leftist game store owner in my general area that affectionately calls the hobby "playing with wardollies"
trail fulcrum
Not to mention Steamforged has an iffy rep in the wargame community
Look it was too competetivr
twin mountain
I like grids. I think generally speaking measurement is more of a pain and a source of concerning subjectivity in executing a game algorithm than anything that really sparks joy for me. I can totally see why so many games are pushing to templates
It's a great middle ground
Also like, more than grids I just like clearly defined space
Like I love the little zone maps in Undaunted
trail fulcrum
I made an entire modular 'terrain grid' 'system' for use in Lancer hahhaha
modern snow
Like I love the little zone maps in Undaunted
the Unmatched/Tannhauser map system is pretty great too
twin mountain
the Unmatched/Tannhauser map system is pretty great too
omg
you know tannhauser
i love you
we should hang out and be bestest friends
did you know that like... the freaking call of duty wargame is using a variant on tannhauser map design?!?! it's actually really good? I actually like a call of duty product???
kill me
it's tannhauser with... facing
it's so good
modern snow
yeah that's really slick
twin mountain
whyyy do I wanna play call of duty whyyyyy
corey
let's steal this and do this but for mechs
anything
this curse must be lifted
modern snow
let's steal this and do this but for mechs
I could see this done on micro maps printed on 8.5x11 sheets of paper
tepid steeple
is that diamond with a plus showing a bonus for high ground
twin mountain
yes I think so
tepid steeple
oh yeah and vice versa on the ladder
twin mountain
it's so fucking good
tepid steeple
neat
twin mountain
it's so GOOD
there's even cover symbols for shooting through windows
adjfalskdjfhalsd
modern snow
is that diamond with a plus showing a bonus for high ground
Unmatched did that in Battle of Legends Vol 2 with their Hanging Gardens map
twin mountain
modern snow
you got a bonus value if you attacked a particular lane
sleek trail
I like grids. I think generally speaking measurement is more of a pain and a sou...
I dont think "subjectivity"/"objectivity" is the be all end all in executing a game algorithm
The only time its a concern is if it leads to arguement, imo
twin mountain
well yeah, but that's what it is for me
sleek trail
Thats fair
twin mountain
it's not just argument tbh
sleek trail
Consistency is more important
twin mountain
like sometimes my friend will move a model, then go, "oh wait actually i'm 6.1 inches away i'm out of range" and then I go "whatever, you could've moved it slightly so that you got 0.1 inches closer I dunno"
I try to be permissive
but it's still an annoying friction point to me
that everyone is like secretly needing to manage these geometric pythagorean compass style calculations and stuff
and it's not... actually clear if it's really in the front arc but... sure
sleek trail
Theres other ways to design
twin mountain
like it's not just about being nice to each other or whatnot it's also that I just want clear consequences for my actions and clear threats and stuff and clear "oh shit you got me" moments
fallen rune
This is also why declaring intent with moved is a big thing, to be able to generally avoid those situations
But it’s much less necessary with indexed space
modern snow
yup, play-by-intent is crucial
sleek trail
like it's not just about being nice to each other or whatnot it's also that I ju...
Ive never found that particularily muddy in a well built free space game, but i admit that this is very design dependent
Tannhauser is also interesting but again restricts possibility space. Unmatched uses it quite well
twin mountain
The only time its a concern is if it leads to arguement, imo
also like, sometimes it doesn't lead to argument exactly but it can lead to moments that just feel like bullshit. I have very few irl flgs experiences but like basically the only time I played infinity a moment came up where I AROed and killed someone through two windows
and they definitely did not expect that to be an angle that existed
and like. surprising people with AROs is sorta how AROs are supposed to be used? it didn't make sense to let them backtrack the movement?
sleek trail
also like, sometimes it doesn't lead to argument exactly but it can lead to mome...
This is actually something that my local always establishes before a game
twin mountain
I dunno it was just awkward
sleek trail
But thats a cultural thing
twin mountain
yeah I don't like... that
sleek trail
and like. surprising people with AROs is sorta how AROs are supposed to be used?...
Thats never been my opinion
sleek trail
The only surprise aros anglewise should be hidden deploy
All else is public information, and the game is more interesting if you make clear all aro directions a model might move into
Hiding public info is shitty
I plan on making this clear for stuff i make with similar mechanics, if they ever manifest, but thats definitely something i got from how my local plays and how i learned the game
twin mountain
I dunno if it's even hiding public info exactly, which is what makes it all sorta messy and complicated in ways I'm not a huge fan of
sleek trail
It literally is
twin mountain
most games are very unclear with their information culture yeah
sleek trail
Los is public info
fallen rune
I may be misinterpreting but I didn’t think that was an example of hidden information just an unforced error from a tricky to spot angle
sleek trail
But thats not super clear always
twin mountain
I do wish they'd be way more explicit around what kinds of things are supposed to be public, private, a secret, open information, rewindable, etc
yeah
fallen rune
Sort of analogous to idk, rhino keyholing in 40K tournaments
sleek trail
I may be misinterpreting but I didn’t think that was an example of hidden inform...
Irs not, but often in the info culture of my local that would be pointed out before the move was committed to
twin mountain
it's an unforced error from an angle I noticed because I ducked and squinted good
modern snow
I may be misinterpreting but I didn’t think that was an example of hidden inform...
yeah that sounds more like a gotcha regarding terrain behavior than Hidden Info akin to HD, camo, etc
twin mountain
and I didn't feel like I should mention that to them
and I didn't feel like I was supposed to mention that to them
like the impression I was given playing that demo being kinda gremliny with angles was the intended playfeel
sleek trail
Windows are especially a thing for infinity gotxhas
I normally play "in and out but not through"
sleek trail
like the impression I was given playing that demo being kinda gremliny with angl...
Yes, but less with "oh i shocked you with this thing you missed"
And more "if you go there i fucking get you"
Infinity is a game about forcing bad moves
For me, at least
tepid steeple
this is on the person running the demo really
sleek trail
Ywah
Bur thats fair to find this kind of cultural-social dynamic frustrating and obtuse
tepid steeple
for sure
fallen rune
Sort of analogous to idk, rhino keyholing in 40K tournaments
Oh I should explain I think - rhino keyholing is like a common gotcha when people move from friendly to competitive play in 40K
Cause Rhinos are taller than infantry and basically boxes
sleek trail
Im defending this example, but i sympathise with the underlying argument
fallen rune
So intuitively they’re LoS blocking
twin mountain
fwiw there are definitely other cultural social dynamics in other games I play, they're like in all games kinda, but broadly when we can cut away cultural social stuff in favor of clear directives and systems without ambiguity I just like it. I also find it paces games better
fallen rune
but they’re not because LoS is plastic to plastic so you can measure from your model’s feet to their model’s feet under the rhino where there’s little gaps
twin mountain
like I for sure play through competitive board games with a "hey if we didn't reveal new information, just feel free to rewind who cares" kinda attitude
sleek trail
fwiw there are definitely other cultural social dynamics in other games I play, ...
I think to an extent these will always evolve
twin mountain
because I did not like the chess culture of my youth where if you touch a piece you're locked in
twin mountain
*but they’re not* because LoS is plastic to plastic so you can measure from your...
yeah this is I think a thing in @modern snow 's mobile arms too
I think all los is drawn from center of base, ground level
sleek trail
And carrying it forward its something id now do in games i make
twin mountain
leading to really odd line of sight
corey, consider this feedback: rules as written it means that if one mech is behind a chest high wall it blocks its line of sight out to far away enemies but not the other way around
because all los is measured from a camera between the two feet
it would be better if you draw lines from the central line passing vertically through the frame's base
something like that
tepid steeple
is this a flat game?
modern snow
corey, consider this feedback: rules as written it means that if one mech is beh...
add it to the doc, that's definitely a RaI vs RaW discrepency 
twin mountain
what's RAI?
sleek trail
Rules as intended
sleek trail
Im tired
modern snow
what's RAI?
RaI is anywhere from the center of the activating frame's silhouette
twin mountain
RaI is anywhere from the center of the activating frame's silhouette
what does... what does that mean
please, please be geometric
sleek trail
Beam from a thin spike
twin mountain
what do you mean by 'center'
modern snow
what does... what does _that_ mean
you could strike Frame~~'s Base ~~and get the intent
twin mountain
that makes SO much more sense
tepid steeple
so the arc works
fallen rune
I’d read that as from a point above the center of the base 35mm in height but I might be wrong
modern snow
and that's literally just a goof on me+my editor's end
twin mountain
RaI is anywhere from the center of the activating frame's silhouette
when I read 'center of silhouette' and a silhouette is defined as a volume
I think 'the point in the center of the cylinder?'
tepid steeple
yeah
sleek trail
Thats alsu how id read it
twin mountain
sleek trail
Why not any point on the front arc of the silhouette btw
twin mountain
that's not a line
you mean the central vertical axis drawn from the base of the frame straight up
tepid steeple
I think it's just trying to explitcly define something that is normally defined intuitively
twin mountain
Why not any point on the front arc of the silhouette btw
way more complicated
and you can peek then
you put a millimeter of front arc out around a wall
tepid steeple
like you just show a diagram of a firing arc and ppl get that what means
modern snow
like you just show a diagram of a firing arc and ppl get that what means
yeah in the update I plan on adding more diagrams
fallen rune
I have a sort of love/hate relationship with Kill Team’s “draw LoS from the eyes of the miniature to any point in the target miniature” method
Cause it works ok but feels stupid
tepid steeple
I kinda hate it
sleek trail
I have a sort of love/hate relationship with Kill Team’s “draw LoS from the eyes...
I hate it
tepid steeple
like they made kill team sculpts so dynamic
sleek trail
Begging to model for advantage
modern snow
I have a sort of love/hate relationship with Kill Team’s “draw LoS from the eyes...
GW refuses to acknowledge silhouettes as a concept and it frustrates me to no end
twin mountain
meanwhile, the chad godtear: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1753556958949742225/6FD87A5B360C9794F8F4DED2AD7B91E637988DC5/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false
no line of sight
only hex ranges
fft style
@_@
glooorious
fallen rune
Thankfully there are almost no models with good shooting and 2+ heads yet
twin mountain
puuuure
sleek trail
no line of sight
So no hiding?
twin mountain
no hiding at all
tepid steeple
and yeah it literally leads to shit like tournaments having to rule on whether certain models are meant to be able to enter buildings which then leads to the idea you have to have the exact makeup of a box or you're modelling for advantage
sleek trail
Huh
twin mountain
you can see through everything
3 hexes means 3 hexes
that's it
fuck los
no cover mechanics
it's final fantasy rangefinding
sleek trail
Inot much reason to move once ur in range then
twin mountain
it's like fire emblem
tepid steeple
3 kroot models are squatting. this nerfs the chicken
twin mountain
you'd think but no movement is SUCH a big deal in the game
sleek trail
Just leave and enter ranges?
twin mountain
look at how involved every screenshot ends up
sleek trail
Thats impressive
fallen rune
and yeah it literally leads to shit like tournaments having to rule on whether c...
Oh yeah like the grodiest example for me is how I put my Vespid together a special way so all the models are less than 4” tall
sleek trail
In any case i def prefer interesting cover systems and whatnot
fallen rune
Since otherwise one of them can’t fit under ruins with a second floor
tepid steeple
mm
twin mountain
you just end up having to do a lot of very interesting complex movement to keep your killzones over them and stay out of their killzones
while the objectives are these evolving blobs of hexes
sleek trail
But also my fave shit is tactical operatives operating tactically
Im glad godtear manages to make good use of its grids though
Ill see if i cant check it out sometime
It is certainly impressive to me
To have movement in a coverless game
twin mountain
yeah
it's like, really interesting
it makes GREAT use of blocking basically
every hero takes up one whole hex and every little guy can fit upto 3x in the same hex
but.
you can't go through hexes with any other units
you can't move through friends
you can't move through enemies
sleek trail
Ahhh, clever
twin mountain
your big kaiju is blocked by 1 tiny little peasant
you need to spend a whole kaiju action to kill that one peasant? oh god no. where's one of my archers
meanwhile the enemy has like some centaur demigods who can't touch objective hexes but run around using leaps to fuck with spacing
or people who can pull people out of place
etc etc
there's just so much STUFF going on
movement is sooo miserably precise and murderous
games lost and won on being one hex away
I love it
they did good
they really did
sleek trail
Hopefully steamforge doesnt fumble it
twin mountain
I was honestly very impressed and I encourage like, I encourage checking out some playthroughs on YouTube just for inspiration if nothing else
Even aristeia had los stuff
sleek trail
Good design is good design even if i have issues with grids
twin mountain
But godtear is ridiculously clean
It's insane how much it does with so little
Partly cause it can afford to just pile so much action in when every action is precision movement and ranging
It's chess with dice
It really is
sleek trail
Good i called this channel indie/alt wargames and not minature games
twin mountain
No terrain either
sleek trail
Too limiting
twin mountain
Because, again, that would ruin the clarity and cleanliness
Chess with dice.
I fucking love chess of course I'd like it
Thinking about it it even does that thing where you create the terrain as you go out of your own pawns
Every squad you bring is 3 hitters and 3 legions of terrain
And then they all slam into each other into this big mess of angles
fallen rune
That does seem neat
I like the tactile feeling of measurement based minis games but there’s a bunch of good kinds of games
sleek trail
Games are good
Controversial take i know
I do really dig template stuff nowdays
Mostly cause forced movement is cool
sudden halo
The big thing for me is always accessibility. Free measure games are more accessible in physical. You just need something to be the game piece, some dice or whatever, and a tape measure out of your garage.
red pulsar
Games are good
from what i've learned spectating many dedicated wargamers discuss their hobby, the truth is anything but
sudden halo
Where that isn't an issue online, as the components are largely free. You grab a TTS module and it has whatever the designer wanted to include.
Now - it's a little bit of a false concern, gamers will buy all kinds of things for their games.
But it's sometimes about getting people to try something in a low risk way, "here's the quick start rules, feel it out", especially before TTS was an option. But it is now, and I'd wager around 1/3 of all minis matches that aren't 40k are played on TTS.
sleek trail
Ive seen the accessibility arguement go both ways
All you need need for a grid is a grid printout, or even just draw one
sleek trail
I find the fact that free space is so adaptable and recontextualizes space into game pieces something almost magic, alchemy, and thats part of why i love the style
You take household objects and they become terrain in ways that mayter
This book, that shoebox
Even when its more bespoke terrain the character, its shape and definition, have meaning
In a way grids cant do
Because its so defined
Grids also place very severe restrictions on how big things can be
You have more nuance in sizes and shapes in free space
Which can give units character
Theres a lot more variability because of that-if games use it
Which they often do not
I think a fair critique of a lot of free space games is that they dont take full advantage of the form
tepid steeple
Terrain is a big bugbear for me
Like I hate that its like
50% of how most wargames work
Yet I cant think of any that actually design what maps they expect
At best its like a token guideline
And like I get the slippery slope thats being avoided is like, limiting creativity but like
fallen rune
Kill Team has official map setups for comp play which I think work pretty well as a guide
But yeah it’s super rare
tepid steeple
Its not like you can just do whatever you want when you make an army list. You can have creativity within rules
Yeah oddly gw does do it
More recently
fallen rune
I was reading Trench Crusade and it was wild to me that the scenarios had fixed objectives but the terrain guide was just “yea fuck me up with terrain fam”
tepid steeple
NO OKAY
i hate that so much
Like
Its in the name of the game
It drives me up the wall
And its not like its something they’ve done badly relatively speaking cause its all every game does
But also i think while at least giving layouts is good I’d love to see a game tackle it more procedurally
fallen rune
Yeah it’s so common
tepid steeple
Old 40k cities of death did this actually but you needed a lot of terrain lol
fallen rune
Trench Crusade has cool scenarios at least
I like the armored train one and the “dragon”
tepid steeple
But it was like ‘place your biggest building then spiral out’
I dont think those were in yet when I read it :(
Tonks also has like terrain shapes and then random placement
fallen rune
I dont think those were in yet when I read it :(
They probably weren’t - they weren’t in the older playtest rules I accidentally downloaded haha
tepid steeple
And I dont think these are perfect approaches necessarily but like. Its nice that there was a beginning of an attempt to design that part of the game smh
Although you kinda see the same thing with like. RTS, moba etc
Finely crafted maps
fallen rune
Tactical shooters too - like Dust2 kind of thing
tepid steeple
but it is kinda like, some gridded games like underworlds, I think aristeia does it, they have full box experiences where the map is set or generated
Which is cool too
And then theres player placed like in x wing
potent wyvern
Maleghast got premade maps too
fallen rune
I’m kind of mixed on player placed ones
tepid steeple
It can be weird
fallen rune
I think it can work but sometimes leads to dumb as hell looking maps
sleek trail
I like player placed/designed maps being supported
But it should be alongside other stuff
Anr with strong baseline rules
tepid steeple
Cause its built on the assumption of a track, and then it has a bunch of cool ideas for different ways play a track like crossing over etc
sleek trail
But making maps and shit is fun
fallen rune
I like player placed/designed maps being supported
I’m specifically criticizing the like “players take turns placing terrain as they see fit” thing
Making maps for people to use rules
tepid steeple
Necromunda using the cardboard tiles is kinda neat
fallen rune
Making twin bunkers with a horrible no man’s land between sucks basically
tepid steeple
Yeah
I like stuff like kill team where you have the mechanical option to place your terrain
With barricades
And the various types
Ummmm
I also like when a mission prescribes some element of the terrain
I think trench crusade did do that for some of its scenarios
modern snow
I like stuff like kill team where you have the mechanical option to place your t...
yeah like giving players a specific mechanic that allows them to fix bad boards
sleek trail
I’m specifically criticizing the like “players take turns placing terrain as the...
Ywah i think thats fun
But needs guidance
modern snow
But needs guidance
experience dictates that most players need more guidance than "as they see fit" lol
(myself inluded, please include blurbs about ideal tables in your games!)
tepid steeple
Where obv something being skill based isnt inherently bad in a competitive game but the opaqueness makes it very frustrating
Cause it hard to tell when you just fucked up in the first phase of the game
twin mountain
The big thing for me is always accessibility. Free measure games are more access...
There's more to accessibility than having tools around, there's also pacing and whether my friends with shaky nerve damaged hands can play and stuff
hollow crypt
meanwhile, the chad godtear: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/17535569...
is godtear the one that also has moba drafting?
twin mountain
And yeah as was mentioned earlier: I can just draw a grid with pencil
I actually don't have useful tape measures around the house that can't hurt people
twin mountain
is godtear the one that also has moba drafting?
Yeah it has limited drafting in its competitive mode
I think you each bring 4 and ban 1 enemy, something like that
hollow crypt
oh so not moba drafting because you can mirror, I guess, but that's still a nice way to do it
twin mountain
Yeah
hollow crypt
is there a different draft for casual then?
hollow crypt
hm
I guess it takes out a complicated decision point for less experienced players?
I still need to play godtear some time but it's like, only you and @queen epoch who've played it
twin mountain
I guess it takes out a complicated decision point for less experienced players?
Nah people just like playing with their favorites and with casual play you want to limit the number of expensive models people need to own to play
hollow crypt
wait this is a models game?? I thought it was like
twin mountain
Yes
hollow crypt
a full box set with little chits
sudden halo
Finely crafted maps
I feel like individual infinity players do this, several people in my community have tables they've finely tuned the layout of over many games, but for any given game its just lay out enough. That said, CB could do a lot more there. Table design has some graphics that set some expectations but ultimately its the community that's made the real standards.
hollow crypt
twin mountain
No it's a model game
sudden halo
and TTS is a big thing that makes playing the same maps lots of times a thing
since they have the save/load boards feature and IGL publishes their seasonal maps
sudden halo
There's more to accessibility than having tools around, there's also pacing and ...
Definitely. It maybe could have used some elaboration but the accessibility of acquiring the components is really what I meant. Lots of games have wonderful components that make them more accessible on other axes.
twin mountain
plastic ruins everything again
I like the colored plastic you don't have to paint, but yeah some people are painters
tepid steeple
Also used to be a big like, map creation community for stuff like warcraft. But they had a sizeable roster of existing developer maps to set standards
hollow crypt
I am being very hyperbolic but nonetheless 😔
twin mountain
hollow crypt
I get it's a core part of the wargaming hobby but at the same time
well this is what TTS is for I guess lol
sudden halo
plastic ruins everything again
prefer pewter then?
hollow crypt
not in my blood probably
tawny sandal
Mmm tasty lead
twin mountain
I get it's a core part of the wargaming hobby but at the same time
I'm with you
sudden halo
but i agree that more games could use chits and such and reach the same level.
twin mountain
Zero interest in all this plastic and pewter
I like cards
I like little abstract chits
I want to pack my game away eco friendly
sudden halo
Its weird because I'm a huge miniatures fan. I've been painting since I was liek 7 or 8
but I'm not always a fan of them as game pieces
twin mountain
It's toys for adults, it's super valid
But I'm a gamer really
Tron and I are strategy gamer tourists
Not toy diorama lovers
hollow crypt
yeah I dunno lol I just want to play good games
or crusty bad games I like
but mostly good games
sudden halo
and every game having cool new minis just means that i have a shitload of unpainted awesome minis that i maybe don't care about anymore if the game kind of sucks or dies out or i can't convince anyone to play
twin mountain
As long as nobody here is buying cmon Kickstarter monstrosities I'm not judging anyone
Big picture I think wargames are really okay consumer friendliness wise
tepid steeple
Sometimes I just get stuff out and set it up like a doll playset
twin mountain
It's not THAT much plastic for how much entertainment you guys get, and there's no gacha stuff
sudden halo
I love cards as ways to compartmentalize information, but I really dislike them as a resolution mechanic a lot of the time. I definitely prefer uncertainty of outcome to uncertainty of options.
twin mountain
So knock yourself out
hollow crypt
As long as nobody here is buying cmon Kickstarter monstrosities I'm not judging ...
minatures made scythe bad and while I can be convinced otherwise it would be difficult
twin mountain
I love cards as ways to compartmentalize information, but I really dislike them ...
No I mean cards as game pieces
Like Tron and I will literally play games with cards on a grid
hollow crypt
Big picture I think wargames are really okay consumer friendliness wise
yeah I mean I'm a TCG player (even if I have a pretty interally consistent rationalisation for it) so I can't really dog on something else for being consumer unfriendly
twin mountain
We're the kinds of humans who do stuff like that
tepid steeple
Random minis in blisters used to be a thing funnily enough
hollow crypt
Like Tron and I will literally play games with cards on a grid
man I kinda want to play crystal wars or whatever it was called again now
that game was cool
twin mountain
I can dog on everyone for I am a beacon of pure purity
tepid steeple
Thankfully long gone afaik
twin mountain
Netrunnnerrrr
hollow crypt
Random minis in blisters used to be a thing funnily enough
catalyst still sells these
tepid steeple
Noooooo
sudden halo
like summoner wars was cool for being a neat card grid based wargame
twin mountain
Yeah gudnak exists now too
twin mountain
I'm coming in with the steel chair!
sudden halo
catalyst still sells these
catalyst also sells the big pack o cardboard standees so you can just avoid the minis all together which is something i love
battletech is nice in that the rules for what to use for your mechs is "it has to have a defined front and be able to be told apart from other stuff" and that's it
tepid steeple
That seems cool tbh
hollow crypt
I mean I've literally never played battletech with an official product lol
vinyl mats and little paper tokens (and megamek)
echo marten
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2619822660
...is that artist Weremole? It looks like their style and I've not seen their art in years.
twin mountain
...is that artist Weremole? It looks like their style and I've not seen their ar...
Art by Vittoria Pompolani @bonedustreborn
Bluesky
echo marten
Okay, seems not. Just got some overlap in style.
tepid steeple
Oh those cards look nice
twin mountain
@tepid steeple gudnak is one of those games where every card has unique art, even all your doggy tokens
twin mountain
i recommend everyone play it. one of those ecg style things
support this developer if you like em
gudnak gudnak gudnak
tepid steeple
The board looks cool too
hollow crypt
gudnak's rad
twin mountain
potent wyvern
Hell yeah gudnak
sudden halo
I hadn't heard of it, so I'm excited to check it out when I get the chance
compact leaf
That rewinding culture wxists i my infinity local
Seconding that.
Our Warcors taught me "if I move this guy here, what's going to see me?" and then I can modify from there.
Infinity has a very specific etiquette that you need to be taught or else the entire game doesn't work. Part of it relies entirely on both players not being jerks (and being a jerk gets you kicked out pretty fast)
They've significantly improved the rules here though, lots of mentions of when you're actually allowed to check LoS and measure
Uhh definitely exaggerating when "the entire game doesn't work"
But still, it significantly improves the experience.
Does suck that it's not like that by default but.. what can ya do..
tepid steeple
Makes the game flow
But yeah like, asking about what can see an area is fundamentally just agreeing to a game state
Since the positions of everything (visible) is public info at all times
sleek trail
yes
tepid steeple
And then building on that just discussing aros without making someone check every single point and letting someone figure out what their move is with all the information theyre allowed
sleek trail
generally i've found infinity players aren't super fond of gotchas
except with HD
but even then people will explain holes in lists
as "my faction gets these off board units. guess"
people want you to be playing your best
actively not mentioning shit is frowned upon
compact leaf
Mhm
Infinity is weird
There are mechanically a lot of possible gotchas
But the culture has evolved to make the play experience go around them
And make them more obstacles you may have to gamble on, but you at least know about
(excepting HD)
sleek trail
HD is such a funny mechanic
compact leaf
Ultimately you are just hiding an obstacle
But uhhh
Man
Fuck Noctifers lmao
(and Blink teams, and Agema, especially Atalanta)
tepid steeple
Theres a lot of fun mechanics in infinity which are like. They’re perfectly mechanically sound but benefit a lot from the culture of the game
sleek trail
Yes
tepid steeple
Hidden information in general is really cool
echo marten
A friend of mine still likes handing people a blank sheet for his 'oops, all camo' list. XD
'Here is your known info'
sleek trail
Its such a good bit
compact leaf
I do wonder if we'll someday see the "it's all parachutists" faction
echo marten
Not since they canned the french 😛
compact leaf
True..
Still sad about that
But there are less factions out of catalogue than N4, at least (because they canned 5 of them)
Poor Tohaa though, really
tepid steeple
I liked mrrf cause they dug holes good
echo marten
I'm sure JSA are happy they became a Real Boy Faction but I'd have happily had them not become a faction if Tohaa had stayed one.
As to be frank, Tohaa brought more unique things worthy of a faction to the table.
If you want Stabby Melee Power Armour, we have Angry Vatican Boys already 😛
compact leaf
Oh my god
tepid steeple
And it ended not up doing anything cause it was the cagiest game of firefight ever
And we ran out of timeee
compact leaf
Well she survived at least right
tepid steeple
But yeah i hope that hasnt used all my luck for the actual event haha
Yeah she did
And part of that was just like
“Nope. Not dealing with that”
Oh yeah she killed a chimera with a mine
compact leaf
If you want Stabby Melee Power Armour, we have Angry Vatican Boys already 😛
They still want to shoot things though lmao
SP and JSA kick their butts in CC (with how MA works now)
But I appreciate them so much
And the seraph exists
I got a front row seat to that thing carving a path across the table cause their opponent did not bring anything to stop it
tepid steeple
Oof
Maggie’s great
I had a maggie vs maggie but it was like my worst game ever I fucked up real bad
compact leaf
Do the funky fork where you launch mines in front of you, then move up and force them to choose between mines and an HMG
tepid steeple
She did take like 4 orders to kill by the other one though
compact leaf
Or just park her on an objective and use her as LoF blocking terrain lmao
tepid steeple
But I didnt give her a way to guts away
compact leaf
Awwww
tepid steeple
Felt awful
compact leaf
4 orders is too little for her, she deserved better
tepid steeple
Nahabs are really fun
Took the red fury infiltrating and the decoy stuff is neat going second
Cause its just like “i know that thing is scary but I have no idea where it actually is”
compact leaf
Hell yeah
tepid steeple
And the immunities are just silly
compact leaf
They're scarier than Asawira imo
Just
Absolute terrors
Khawarijs are in a similar spot
tepid steeple
Special dice in melee and immunities yeah
compact leaf
Someone got top 5 in CanCon by just running a full Haris of them I think
tepid steeple
I havent had much luck with khawarij but thats mainly my own fault
compact leaf
They're very finesse-y
tepid steeple
Mm
I tried to use the doctor in supplies and he died fighting a qaz creature cause it kept critting :(((
tepid steeple
Shit rolling 3 dice in aro and critting is the bane of my existence
compact leaf
I watched a full link of JSA die in CC to a single line trooper at the tournament I played in last weekend
tepid steeple
Theoretically though the doctor feels really good. Shotgun fork and super fast specialist
At least running one alone
tepid steeple
Yeee
tepid steeple
Haha
I did do tarik khawarij duo when I played biotechvore
Listbuilding is just hard to fit when im trying to get lots of practice with maggie haha
compact leaf
My personal taste is
tepid steeple
The nco is really cool looking
Expensive but you are kinda budgeting for an msv2 piece anyway I feel like
compact leaf
This link will just kill stuff
tepid steeple
And mk12 is wild
tepid steeple
Yeah!
tepid steeple
Wait
tepid steeple
Oh yeah I think so,
compact leaf
That's uhhh...
9 dice
tepid steeple
Wait khawarij dont berserk lol
compact leaf
You could berzerk an asawira link :)
tepid steeple
I figured out you can berserk…wild bill and mother agatha dvdhsvd
compact leaf
Lmaooo
tepid steeple
Not wild bill. Wolfgang
compact leaf
Ohh
Khawarijs can still pseudo berzerk in a link though
Given their super jump is 8 inches
You can super jump in a straight line if you're willing to give up cover
tepid steeple
Yeah very speedy
And its not uncommon to not have cover if youre engaging anyway
But also. CC-6. Who needs cover
immediately fails all her rolls for hubris
compact leaf
Many such cases
Man
Now I've gotta try out the Khawarij team
It just looks so solid
And my locals play Rodoks all the time
These just seem like better Rodoks
tepid steeple
Pretty muchhh
Ive been using yara in a link a bit, she’s fun. Not getting the level 5 link isnt ideal though
I think more for like. Durability reasons than anything else? Like losing the bs etc
But shes just so gooood
Need to try out more duos though really, rtf is really good for them
compact leaf
Bring out the big Fasid
tepid steeple
Fasid is cool :)
compact leaf
They're also just a level 5 link basically on their own
I think taking them with a couple janissaries/hortlaks is pretty solid
tepid steeple
Nice haris yeah
Janissaries seem really cool now
And hortlaks have some cool profiles
Or bring burkut for flamethrower type stuff
Al fasid arent desperate for the engineer though
compact leaf
I'm partial to the HMG and ML
Marksmanship ML is a horrifying ARO piece
Cause that'll usually hit on 15s
tepid steeple
Ml is super easy to fit in a list too
compact leaf
And if it dies it might just get back up on its own
tepid steeple
Cause its like 3 pts over the base profile and usually have the swc
I havent gotten a regenerate off yet :(
He keeps fully dying. The one time I did roll it he failed
Sdge
tepid steeple
Oh definitely
MI vet for classifieds too!
Also they just look really cool
And the lore just like “everyone thinks they’re part of the super soldier program cause they’re so good but no they’re just ridiculously experienced and have an automedkit”
compact leaf
Ooo
Finally found that crazy tournament list
There are so so many remotes in it
gZQPcmFtYWgtdGFza2ZvcmNlAIEsAgEACgGBPwEFAAKBLwEDAAOBLwEGAASBLwEJAAWGIgEBAAaBPgEBAAeBPgEBAAiBPgEBAAmBLQEOAAqBLQEHAAIABwGFNQEDAAKBTQEBAAOBTQEBAASBTgECAAWBPQEBAAaBPAECAAeBPAEBAA%3D%3D
tepid steeple
Oh yeah rtf gets 3 flashbots
compact leaf
This one takes all 3, 2 TR bots, EVO hacker bot, and a missile bot
tepid steeple
Wiiiild
Monstrucker with two nasmats omg
And then just cheap ghulam hacker with all the repeater presence from the flashbots to threaten the missilebot
Very interesting
compact leaf
Mhm!
Apparently there was a list counterpart but this was just the best one in every case
Khawarij link did work
tepid steeple
Kinda surprised they went two nasmat over both shihab being hmg
But they are useful for a lot
compact leaf
You could definitely drop a nasmat to get the other HMG
echo marten
Anyone know if Combined Armies is making much use of Achilles?
compact leaf
Or upgrade the Beasthunter to camouflage
echo marten
As like...he was a big thing for ALEPH but 'Hey look, it's a big tanky beatstick' is not something CA lacks.
compact leaf
Anyone know if Combined Armies is making much use of Achilles?
Achilles is an incredible profile but he competes with all the other crazy stuff in CA so I haven't seen him much
Now in Onyx
Which he will apparently be in post-rework
He is definitely gonna get taken
echo marten
I want him back ;-;
echo marten
Like I know he's gone for fluff reasons but also: I have Achilles models and I don't play CA.
And now they can't be used
compact leaf
Mine is unpainted, me and my CA friends are thinking of painting up either half in our faction's colours
tepid steeple
I think
compact leaf
It is!
He brought the EI a present
Vanilla Aleph got absolutely gutted this edition though
Hope they touch on that soon
echo marten
'Good news, I rescued our guy' tosses morat head at someone
tepid steeple
Vanilla aleph is so weird
echo marten
I'm not sure they will. ALEPH seems to be one of the factions that gets very little support. Especially not since O-12 got added and kinda ate their lunch.
compact leaf
They have explicitly said Aleph was gonna get something alongside Haqq
tepid steeple
I want a thorikitai swc boxxx
compact leaf
So they'll probably get their stuff alongside a new book
compact leaf
I want a thorikitai swc boxxx
They're doing Gamma Packs now
Just models with different loadouts
One of mine on the wishlist is a Thorakitai Feurbach
tepid steeple
Yeahh
compact leaf
Not sure about the other two though
tepid steeple
Ive been trying to find the 2017 one
echo marten
I want more cool units for the hindu side of ALEPH. Or like, let aleph take some other faction units.
ALEPH units turn up in other subfactions a lot
But other subfactions basicly never turn up in ALEPH
compact leaf
OSS has a ton of Mercs now
echo marten
Outside of mercs, yeah. XD
tepid steeple
compact leaf
Ive been trying to find the 2017 one
They're so pretty
tepid steeple
And 3d print blackwind style shields
compact leaf
Wonder how Thorakitai would do with the visors back (they used to all have 360° visors)
tepid steeple
I just think they’re neat
echo marten
I did like when they had 360 visors. 360 visors are fun.
compact leaf
Yeah I dunno what else I'd ask for in an SP gamma pack
compact leaf
Maybe they put that K2 Auxiliar in there?
I'm curious as to what they're supposed to look like
Oh!
And Thamyris needs a model!
tepid steeple
K2 is fascinating
echo marten
I'm really happy with the Sophotech update/extra shinies.
compact leaf
I am yet to try it but little mine dispenser guy is very intriguing
echo marten
Being an Engineer/Medic was always their thing but they're better at it now.
compact leaf
I'm really happy with the Sophotech update/extra shinies.
Yesss
I was waiting for new netrods for now long
Also Sophie is just insane now
Like
A MK 12 turret???
And deployable cover??
echo marten
Sentry Goin' Up!
tepid steeple
Mk12 turret is wiiiild
compact leaf
There is a small problem I've got with turrets right now though
They're perimeter deployment
So you can put them wherever you want without a roll
Even outside LoF
Which is uhh
Sophie has caused some uproar, we'll say
compact leaf
I think they should work like drop bears
Or
If they really want perimeter turrets
echo marten
I'll admit, I was shocked they were not just Normal Deployable.
compact leaf
At least require LoF
compact leaf
Yeah I agree
But
They're very much just someone tossing a box in the air and it turning into a gun when it lands
echo marten
...I could see them making the two levels of it distinct at some point. One being peremiter and one being normal deployable.
tepid steeple
For that concept
echo marten
And you make the peremiter one only for Smaller Guns
While 'That's a fucking Mk12' require normal deployment
echo marten
Clearly new Sophotech version: Gunslinger. Gives her +1 Vita but downgrades her deployable turret to a pistol minisentry 😛
tepid steeple
Pfff
compact leaf
I actually really appreciate the idea of a heavy turret
But I think it may be a bit rules-bloaty
sudden halo
You can berzerk the entire fireteam at once
You can't do that, its a specific exception listed in the fireteam rules
echo marten
...I'd kinda like to see some day a turret for one of the weapons with limited ammo.
sudden halo
it would be kind of neat. a turret that's basically a one shot panzerfaust
would be more consistent with the other deployable weapons
echo marten
Yeah, like a Longer Range Mine
sudden halo
exactly
tepid steeple
They dont each get a boosted roll no, i think you can berserk for the movement though
Which then the leader will do the bonus burst group cc thing
echo marten
Combined Army: "We have heard and understood. We are now deploying units with Sepsitor Turrets."
sudden halo
its weirdly tucked in the reminder text on page 135
sudden halo
it was in the main text in N4 iirc
it does bother me that the red and yellow boxes are actual rules text in infinity
tepid steeple
Yeah its really something
sudden halo
instead of them being like, pointing out specific parts of the already existing rules text
compact leaf
You can't do that, its a specific exception listed in the fireteam rules
That would make sense!
Oh my god I found out where it is in the rules though
Why isn't it specifically listed in the order expenditure section and instead in the "reminder" section ;-;
sudden halo
Every version of the rulebook gets better, and infinity is a complicated enough game that it is honestly not that bad of a rulebook
But damn cb there is still just a lot of easy places to clarify things.
tepid steeple
aaaa
sudden halo
The people running the Krug in August have put out their rules FAQ for the vagaries and that's kind of been a shit show with a lot of the little questions, because their answers are opposite everyone else's that's run a tournament so far.
sudden halo
Because this is right under it
That's consistent with the reminder stuff above.
compact leaf
But implies an exception if multiple members have berserk
sudden halo
Yeah, that's true I suppose.
compact leaf
The people running the Krug in August have put out their rules FAQ for the vagar...
I've been hearing some wild things about it, I have the feeling the FAQ is gonna get changed up
tepid steeple
In the middle of the examples section is such a weird place to put it too
Uh
I wonder if its because
Of the weirdness where berserk is both a long skill and a modified move + cc attack order
So while berserk isnt performed by the fire team, units with berserk can perform the move thats part of berserk???
And then the bit thats like “you have to idle unless you have berserk” is because otherwise the other members of the fire team would still perform the move short skill
sudden halo
I think the correct ruling is just the fireteam leader berserks and everyone else idles but no one really knows other than CB.
compact leaf
With how CC attack in fireteams work
If we were to do rules as written
All the members who have it would move, but only the leader would roll CC
tepid steeple
I think the correct ruling is just the fireteam leader berserks and everyone els...
N4 it was like that yeah
But the sibylla explains bit is just confusing
sudden halo
My position on contradictions and vagaries is to default to what N4 did unless there's specific reason to believe it's an intentional change and not just a writing mixup
tepid steeple
Mm
compact leaf
Fair
I'll probably run it by the tournament organizers in my area to see what they have to say
sudden halo
There's some other super weird stuff like when Vitapacks take effect.
compact leaf
the Spanish rulebook is likely far more coherent tbh
sudden halo
Do you have to take a wound that order or do they proc if you have a wound at all.
In this case the Spanish is identical, because that was my first impulse.
compact leaf
Patiently awaiting the updated wiki to come out
sudden halo
My conclusion is they proc if you have a wound at all because otherwise the "you can use them on an ally with a short skill" does nothing but the wording is vague enough it makes a potential issue.
compact leaf
Well
So
It uses itself when you take a wound, but you using it on someone instantly heals them
Is how I've understood it
Sorta like an autostim
sudden halo
"recieved a wound" is something they use different ways throughout the rules but my read on the section on wounds is that you are considered to have "recieved a wound" anytime you have a wound token.
compact leaf
Which would mean the Vita-pack uses itself immediately upon pickup if you're missing a wound
I think it'd be better to write the rules as missing wounds rather than recieved wounds
But I get why it's written that way, because you "gain" wound markers
compact leaf
Yeah, that's true I suppose.
I've got multiple authorities telling me the fireteam berserk works like this:
- the leader declares berserk.
- all members with berserk can declare it and perform the movement, anyone without berserk idles.
- once the movement is performed and all the models are engaged, only the fireteam leader gets to perform the CC roll
sudden halo
Sounds good to me. I'll run it by our local rules guys too but that seems right based on RAW.
compact leaf
Apparently Domarus have been doing it a lot in tourneys, so it's a fairly common ruling
modern snow
on the subject of infinity (unrelated to berserk):
Corvus Belli, what the frick does a Thunderbolt look like
all these shiny new models and you have yet to give one this new, widely-distributed gun
compact leaf
all these shiny new models and you have yet to give one this new, widely-distrib...
There is supposed to be one modeled somewhere on this guy
But I could not tell you where
God that image is garbage
Lemme see if I can find a better one
There we go
echo marten
That's cool, not a huge fan of 'More O-12' when they're already Very Spported but the unit is Very Cool.
compact leaf
This is their last unit for a while
It's just to finish up Torchlight I believe
They still haven't figured out a new Jamie model..
modern snow
They still haven't figured out a new Jamie model..
pretty sure the one they shipped is gonna quietly be the netroid handler one too
modern snow
That's cool, not a huge fan of 'More O-12' when they're already Very Spported bu...
it's just part of the obligatory "every faction gets a vehicle" cycle. I do like the Tinkers, those were a pleasant surprise.
compact leaf
Zetbots are so cute
modern snow
they really are
compact leaf
Really hoping for a new (and not obscene) tech bee sculpt
compact leaf
There aren't any
echo marten
Oh
compact leaf
Haqq got 2 though lmao
Uhh Aleph got one new unit and that was the K2s as far as I know
That was it
echo marten
...so even with the 'every faction gets X' cycle, ALEPH doesn't get one :S
Sorry for being grumpy.
compact leaf
Nah you're alright
I, again
Think Aleph is gonna be a goodie or two when they get their turn in a year or so
Maybe less
Alongside Haqq
Cause they're missing from the core lore book
modern snow
Really hoping for a new (and not obscene) tech bee sculpt
yeah the tinker strikes me as the Tasteful Techbee™️
Pretty sure Aleph and JSA are gonna get new Third Sectorials next year
they both feel like YJ did after Uprising before IA was introduced.
er
not IA
WB
compact leaf
Seconding that
Though maybe not JSA, it may be O-12 or Ariadna instead
Pretty certain what's coming for Haqq is a QK refresh
modern snow
Vanilla JSA is... not really playable rn
it feels like there's a huge swathe of profiles missing from it
compact leaf
that's most vanilla factions all things considered
but yeah, I get where you're coming from
I think we'll see some profiles shuffled around over the course of the edition
I have a feeling yet another new JSA sectorial is at least a few years away though
probably near the end of N5 if anything
echo marten
I mostly don't like the old Techbee model but there's one thing I hope they keep with it.
The exoskeletal arm
I'd love to see the new techbee with that and maybe an melee profile with some extra damage to represent belting people with the lifting arm.
sudden halo
Cc skill 10 but it's a da CCW ps 4.
I hope Morats get a sweet hoverbike. Not that they need it but it feels on brand.
And I hope Tohaa gets anything 😢
There's tons of cool directions they could take them. I just hope they do any of them
echo marten
Cc skill 10 but it's a da CCW ps 4.
Sometimes you've got to go 'Stuff it, taking a risk' and punch the mech 😛
compact leaf
Cc skill 10 but it's a da CCW ps 4.
If they do change the tech bee profile to be in line with the tinker, they'll have a pretty silly CC weapon on them
compact leaf
echo marten
Big Lizard Remote?
compact leaf
Big Lizard Remote?
It's a unit with guard, but yeah! Big lizard remote!!
echo marten
In my defence, you really can't see much of the guy behind the lizard in that picture above 😛
