Warhammer and Such

[vital barn]

admittedly every edition has had a ton of power-creep in it, that's just kind of a constant

[jaunty dawn]

Plasma flamers and meltas are less different

[vital barn]

9th was especially bad, granted

[thin ibex]

yeah power creep is a forever battle, no doubt about that

[jaunty dawn]

In terms of output

[dense idol]

(irritating contrarian voice) I actually think there should be less wargear options

ok let me rephrase that

[junior summit]

Also making all the combi guns the same means that a new player won't get gotchad by "these guys can kill tanks now"

[jaunty dawn]

Which is more a problem with them just taking melta out the back but still

[thin ibex]

The only thing to me is that every war gear choice should have a value choice based on stats not on price, from a personal perspective, I want to make meaningful statistical choices rather than cost/benefit choices at the wargear level

[vital barn]

OK, this is true, but at the same time it has now made it completely pointless for me to deploy a squad armed with combis as the one-tap backup option that they are meant to be in the lore and are in every other edition of the game

[thin ibex]

I don't want the chainsword to be a chump option thats cheap, I want it to have a role standing next to a power sword or hammer or what have you

[vital barn]

combimelta vets are just an all-time classic unit and no longer exist

also they just took huge swathes out of every army and the fact Trueborn/Conscripts/Chapter Masters got it in the neck is just such an incredible case of throwing various babies out with the bathwater in my book

guard can no longer go Chenkov Mode, what are you doing here

[dense idol]

I think that the widespread removal of wargear options, if it had to have happened at all, should have gone all the way, instead of leaving a bunch of weird appendices behind

[thin ibex]

I actually kind of supported removing a bunch of overall roster bloat, though some factions still kinda got it

you can only have so many versions of "the same unit but better"

[vital barn]

also they somehow made the 7e state of dependence on unique characters even worse

[dense idol]

space marine players, do you actually care about the difference between a bolt pistol and heavy bolt pistol and volkite pistol and hand flamer on a lieutenant, genuine question

[vital barn]

now it's not only that the uniques are better, now there's usually no generic equivalent

[floral herald]

Yeah without FoC most of them don’t really make sense

But a lot of the “troops choice but better” options sucked anyway haha

[vital barn]

Trueborn are just iconic to how Deldar work IMO, they are very much a thematic statement

[thin ibex]

I feel like xeno's often got a better deal as far as internally balanced rosters, like Tau comp performance aside, its a very well done internally balanced dex

[vital barn]

and gameplay-wise they're your meltavet equivalents

conscripts too

you don't need twenty primaris LT datasheets, of course, but give me a tiny bit of goddamn choice here

[floral herald]

Yeah Trueborn were good

[thin ibex]

and pretty much every option in the tau dex has a place (im trying not to meet strike teams in the eye as i say that)

[floral herald]

Very high firepower transported goons

Company Veterans kinda sucked iirc

Mostly for lack of weapon upgrades

So they were kinda tactical marines with better ld

[sour sequoia]

If you go look at horus heresy, they do. Very badly. Very very badly.

[jaunty dawn]

9e was pretty poggers tbh

[thin ibex]

I think something I'd like to see also is maybe more interaction/use/power in the battleshock system. Not sure how I'd like to see it, but I'd like to see it being a strategic avenue instead of a "i hope it works'

[dense idol]

ok that tracks

[vital barn]

yeah, this is where the 30k veterans utterly wreck them in versatility because HH vets are designed around being the super-flexible unit

[floral herald]

I play CSM but I do care about the weapon stuff

[jaunty dawn]

Almost like not making a new game every 3 years lets you do something more polished

[floral herald]

But CSM also has a number of characters with semi-meaningful loadout choices

[vital barn]

HH also has Good Leadership Rules

[thin ibex]

I was... not overall a fan of 8 and 9e, but there are elements that I enjoyed

[vital barn]

8th and 9th are my least favourite editions

[sour sequoia]

I mean they won’t actually know their shit because I got my deliverers paintjob mansplained to me as “you just painted the wrong legion by accident (:”

but they care deeply about all that shit

[vital barn]

7th had its charms and its jank, so does 10e

I would happily play either over a nice game of 9e

hell, I'd rather go back to 5th, fuck it, bring on the leafblower guard

[floral herald]

I never read 8e (or 7e) but 9e was ok except for the uniformly high lethality being kind of flattening and needing to learn like 1000 stratagem gotchas

[sour sequoia]

8th’s selling point is every faction functions according to their own propaganda so its lethality soup, 9th is a lot of random bullshit

[jaunty dawn]

The best 40k edition is the one you imagine in your head while reading imperial armour

[vital barn]

9e had all the downsides of 8th in being very thematically flattened out compared to 7th while also having all of 7th's rules bloat in an even less attractive way

at least in 7th you could do things with the 5000 options from the Imperial Armour books, you could build a D-99 list or whatever

[jaunty dawn]

I think 9e is the most thematic most armies ever got lol

[vital barn]

in 9th the 5000 pages of strats just sat there until someone blew the fuck out of you with them

and I dislike strats anyway

[jaunty dawn]

Like tyrand synaptic web

[vital barn]

requiring the army mana bar to make your guns work detracts heavily from the immersion IMO

10e strats far superior, HH3e reactions better still

[jaunty dawn]

Or like double wt double relic was the most customisable characters got

[vital barn]

OK, it clearly was not, in 7th you had traits, relics, a wide variety of psyker powers and actual wargear options

same as HH1e

[floral herald]

(Grognard take incoming) delete stratagems

[jaunty dawn]

Ohh yeah wow i can choose between power fist and chainfist

[floral herald]

They can stay in cities of death to blow up buildings

[sour sequoia]

Wargear did a lot more then

In defense of wargear options

[tired cairn]

I think I'd be interested with more wargear but ideally you would balance different choices with points last.

I'd also want named characters to be examples of character builds instead of their own special rules, generally

[vital barn]

so far I have used literally all of these options except Maxima Bolter, Heavy Chainweapons and the two Lacrymaerta spells,and they're all meaningfully different

[jaunty dawn]

In 7th you didnt even get to choose your warlord traits or powers

[junior summit]

Stratagems are cool conceptually but there is a serious tendency to make each successive stratagem bigger and cooler and oops! 9th edition!

[sour sequoia]

Like instead of having 5 different kinds of random bullshit phobos squads, all their abilities are Gear that you’d put on a regular tac squad

[tired cairn]

But points are easier to change than rules, so it's almost too tempting if you have points

[vital barn]

you basically got to choose your powers, and a lot of units had "pick your WT"

HH1e was better because it just let you pick

HH3e has ditched traits and relics completely, and I do want my arkana relics list back but the spread of actual options makes up for the traits pretty well

[sour sequoia]

It had endless problems, as a game I think 10th blows it out of the water but it was also a completely different paradigm

Print modern day quality crusade campaigns for 7th and you’d have 10th ed narrative play BTFO

[vital barn]

I still want to try porting Victory Is Vengeance into HH3e because 7th/HH1e campaign rules were great

you couldn't port it to 10th, they're just totally incompatible

[rocky shale]

Wow stealth suits got gutted

[thin ibex]

hmm?

[vital barn]

I have seen a group of people sit down on a podcast to talk about how to improve 10th and whenever they start going "yeah I'd like more crunch and more options, but 9th had those and it was bad" I do kind of want to scream because 9th had the absolute worst tradeoff between juice and balance I've ever seen

these people need to commune with the grognard ancestor core

[jaunty dawn]

If they were gonna just completely change the stealthsuit datasheet why the bs about xv26

[vital barn]

but obviously none of them played 7th or before so they do not know what wargear lists and FOCs look like

[thin ibex]

oh where can we see the new stealth suit stats?

[jaunty dawn]

Making a 3-6 unit fixed at 5 is gross

[vital barn]

I do think the generic force org is straight up a good idea

[thin ibex]

i would like to see generic force org; even if that means they need to categorize harder and balance around it

[vital barn]

with some army-specific variants like you got in 6th or HH3

Skitarii used to play "headless", they had no HQs, that was cute

[thin ibex]

I could see force org linking into detachments as well potentially

[vital barn]

and being able to swap different things into different slots is fun for army specialisation

white scar biker troops etc.

[thin ibex]

though that might make detachment power scaling even more dramatic than it already is

but still a cool idea

[floral herald]

I think the OG one pinched some stuff too much

HQs mostly

[thin ibex]

the return of Iron Hands being the strongest chapter with no lore

[vital barn]

7th had "formations", which is detachments but they're also force orgs, and that was a recipe for ungodly power creep

but I could see a generic FOC and then every detachment applies modifiers

so the terminator list gets you termie troops or more elites or whatever

that's basically HH1e Rites of War now that I think about it

and those were great

(Ironfire and Court of the Crimson King aside, but every edition has balance issues)

[floral herald]

Yeah I think generic FOC with twists is best

[vital barn]

agreed, I'm not wedded to the exact one they used from 5th through 7th or anything

[jaunty dawn]

I think the bigger issue with detachments is its just like

[vital barn]

but I do think "1 HQ, 2 troops, go from there" is a fine principle

[jaunty dawn]

Here buy a billion of the same unit

[thin ibex]

to be clear i dont mind some detachments just being worse for the sake of theming

[vital barn]

Some of the Iron Warriors players I know are still chasing the 5th? ed high from getting +1 heavy support slot and Basilisks

[thin ibex]

but yeah single unit themes are a little bland

and have no sauce

[jaunty dawn]

3e was +3 heavy slots

[thin ibex]

especially since hte power of that detachment is then entirely dependent on that unit

[vital barn]

HH3e has an interesting system that might be a little too complex for its own good but is worth looking at I think

[thin ibex]

i tried a quick google search, i couldnt find any leaked 40k stats for the new stealth suits?

[floral herald]

3rd yeah

[vital barn]

you have a core FOC of HQ + troops and then each HQ lets you pick one or two "auxiliary detachments" that have different slots in

[floral herald]

They’re true Long Warriors

[jaunty dawn]

I think having an foc puzzle is important for lonely play but

[vital barn]

there's a lot going on here but it is army-universal, your army will have like 2-3 extra det options at most

so you learn it fast

and it lets you tailor your army without just letting you spam infinity of the best unit

[jaunty dawn]

It annoys me that ashen circle are a unique destroyer that doesnt use the destroyer slot

Which share with terminators instead for whatever reason

[vital barn]

destroyers have always wandered all over the place honestly

but yeah, it's not giga-consistent

[jaunty dawn]

Which is then emblemetic of foc in general is that its often just completely arbitrary

[vital barn]

I think I prefer HH1e's FOC + rites of war on balance, although I'd provide another HQ slot or even two

[jaunty dawn]

Though less of an issue in hh3

Where like each army uses it differently and theres only a handful in total

[vital barn]

it also appeals to my inner historical wargamer in that it produces armies that look vaguely like actual armies

8th/9th/10th lists often look to me like someone grabbed a bunch of random models off the shelf and dumped them onto the board

(9th especially, 10th at least keeps things vaguely aesthetically coherent by restricting allies)

[jaunty dawn]

I think thats always gonna be an issue as long as ppl are optimising lists

[vital barn]

yeah, but you can have it to a greater or lesser degree

[jaunty dawn]

Like having two 5 man scout or tactical squads doesnt make a list look cooler

[vital barn]

if you look at 7th tourney lists, Primus Demi-Company looks like a mechanised infantry platoon or two, Decurion looks like necron legions marching out, Eldar scatterbike spam looks like a plausible Alaitoc/Siam-Hann biker force

compared to 8e "gulliman, 5 stormravens and 32 random guardsmen" it's night and day

[jaunty dawn]

32 random guardsmen was 8e

[vital barn]

ah, typo

but you get my point

[jaunty dawn]

I can see formations doing that I suppose

But then youre back to the accesibility issues with formations

[vital barn]

(the exception was War Convocation, which was basically designed to sell the admech range by massively incentivising buying one box of each thing and as such looked fucking awful)

yeah, this is why I prefer FOCs with thematic variants

Rites of War are the high point IMO

since they have most of the benefits of 10e detachments and also provide that slight rigidity to army building that a generic rule of 3-6 doesn't

"you have to have some kind of HQ and troops" is not that big of an accessibility issue when most Start Collecting boxes had that in, and I think they usually still do

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

[vital barn]

(although if that was the case I'd like Kataphrons to be troops again)

[jaunty dawn]

Mostly its just like

I dont think its actually possible to have a flexible system that doesnt result in optimised competitive lists not being necessarily narratively interesting. Though they sometimes are by coincidence like csm at one point

And the main reason thats a problem is theres no culture of community narrative play

Which sucks

[thin ibex]

one thing about missing conscripts is that, when you are not doing any units above 20 people and guardmen can already go that far, what meaningful difference is there in them vs normal guardsmen? The exact same models but with worse stats and less cost per model? I feeel as though thats sort of hte exact thing that they were working against having a lot of

[vital barn]

Formations ended up incentivising power creep heavily because the available forms stacked up over time and you ended up with an options list that was bloated and heavily skewed towards a small pool of choices, but Rites of War are exclusive with each other and set your FOC restrictions when you pick one, so they can be adjusted against each other like detachments

[jaunty dawn]

But its the only way to actually solve the issue is to play with people who actually care abt the same shit you do

[thin ibex]

sry thats a necro, had to take a meeting

[vital barn]

the classic conscript upsides were that they can go to 50, they're easy to buff, they were excellent screens and they usually hooked into "respawn/refill unit" tech that Guard otherwise was not allowed to have

if you have restricted what's possible in your system such that conscripts are identical to guardsmen then sure, but they weren't

and "good troops/bad troops" is not too much bloat, that's just Necrons

or Deldar

[thin ibex]

not even nids go up to a 50 model unit

[vital barn]

sure, because that's not how 10th works, but Conscripts used to start at 20 or 30

[floral herald]

The big thing conscripts did was tarpit the fuck out of things

[jaunty dawn]

Nids never got 50

[vital barn]

(50 is probably a bit much, but I see no reason you couldn't have a 30 man unit)

[jaunty dawn]

10e was downgrading 30 to 20

[floral herald]

Since you could have a block of 50 shitters who are ld 9 and immune to penalties

[vital barn]

also yeah, they're tarpits and the commissar shoots one or two per round to keep them in the game

[jaunty dawn]

They did get the other conscript thing of recursion in 4e though

You could just pay extra have infinite gaunts

[thin ibex]

i think if we didn't already have 3 different battleline guardsmen units, there might be a place for them as a chump blocker (which would kind of immediately make them a preferred choice over guardsmen since no one takes guardsmen for killing power)

[desert jay]

Having thought about it, I think there's also been a tone shift in the writing where you're not allowed to have shitty guys who are suck at their jobs, the Imperium is now heroes all the way down

[vital barn]

there was even an army that was built entirely around a base unit of "shitty conscript" that you then layered options and army rules onto until you could turn them into vet-equivalents

Renegades and Heretics

RAH was really fun, I do kind of miss them

really crunchy, really versatile chaos guard army that somehow wasn't bloated

(had one overpowered formation but what didn't in 7th)

[floral herald]

It’s also worth noting that that when 50 man conscript blobs were a thing they were attached to a mandatory command squad and regular guard squad

[vital barn]

outside Heresy, where you could just take 'em

[floral herald]

Which made them hard to spam

[vital barn]

but in Heresy they were 0-2 without a particular bossman and army specialisation

[jaunty dawn]

Back when 50 guard was the minimum and not the upper end haha

[desert jay]

Like look at fluff examples from the Novitiates team, which is the closest you get

New inductees into the ranks of the Adepta Sororitas, Sisters Novitiate who display great zeal and determination are often deployed together in kill teams to hunt down apostates or root out heretics. In performing such duties, they may one day rise to become full Sisters, spreading the Emperor’s light ever further.

Novitiates Militant are Battle Sisters in training. They have yet to earn the power armour and boltguns of fully fledged Battle Sisters, but are zealous warriors of the Emperor nonetheless, eager to join the ranks of their Order Militant

[vital barn]

but like, I see no reason to remove Trueborn, Trueborn being richer and better than the plebes is Deldar's entire deal and they were very meaningfully different in gameplay

like, these aren't the same units, they just usually used similar models

[jaunty dawn]

I mean they got rid of celestians which had explicit options in the sisters kit

Its sad

[vital barn]

Conscript blobs did different jobs to guardsmen which did different jobs to Vets, usually screen/tarpit, objective holder with special/heavy weapons and mechanised/airdropped infantry special weapons assassin squad

the army that still does this well is Genestealer Cults, who have a meaningful choice between a good number of different infantry gribblies

arguably Chaos Space Marines too because they still have Chosen, even if the Chosen seem to have mostly been restricted to swording good

(that's probably fine, they were mostly for swording good before even if you did sometimes see special weapons chosen inna rhino)

[floral herald]

Pretty much all CSM infantry are also ultimately for swording good

[vital barn]

now there are just three different kinds of normal guardsmen, which you used to differentiate via regiment rules, and there's not really anything I can do to say "this is a chump penal regiment" or "this is a formation of veterans" short of spamming kasrkin, which are very different to the old vets and make a different narrative statement entirely

[tired cairn]

You can make detachments that aren't that way (and a lot of them aren't). But it's definitely something that GW finds easy to do when making them and it's annoying

[vital barn]

despite my gripes with 40k admech I would like to thank Haloscreed for just letting me Run Whatever

[jaunty dawn]

I meant 7e formations

But yeah

[vital barn]

yeah, 7e formations are really not my first choice because that's how most of them worked

the later decurion-setups were better but they're mostly just an inferior version of HH1e Rites of War or HH3e legobricks force org

[jaunty dawn]

Legio bricks

[vital barn]

stealing that

[desert jay]

Yeah, and what I'm saying is that stuff like penal regiments have been shoved aside by the shift in the writing's tone

[thin ibex]

conscript platoon KT. First KT with like 20 guys

they all have increasingly depressing special model names

none of them are actually good at anything, but you still have a huge action advantage

[floral herald]

That would kick ass actually

Let me blow up their bomb collars for damage on death

you get 20 models but only 10 guns and can perform pick up marker actions on your dead models to get guns back

[thin ibex]

thats hilarious

i want my valhallan ice warriros Kt first, but that would actually be cool

[pale narwhal]

Oh my god the new stealth suit datasheet is awful

110pts, mandatory 5-man, can’t take a shield drone, lost fallback and shoot on one model (so they can’t fallback and spot) and for all of that gained markerlight (which they get from the marker drone anyway) and the grenade keyword

This nerfs most tau lists by 60pts + makes stealthsuits worse bc your opponent can tag them in melee with chaff and they can’t spot.

[thin ibex]

where are yall seeing this, i could not find it

are they nerfed enough to not be obligatory to bring 3 in every single list?

also generally no one brought 6 stealth suits ever tbf

[rocky shale]

The pistol does let them spot in melee

[rocky shale]

No the datasheet ability is still awesome so you probably just eat the higher point cost

[vital barn]

you know one of my minor gripes with Kill Team is that it's squeezing narrative plasibility a bit much in seeking to make 10 chump battle servitors equal to 12 aspect warriors, I would be much happier if they gave me a team that genuinely was just a bunch of gigachumps

that would rule

I love killing one ten-thousandth of all custodes with suicide-bombing chaff, but it has to feel earned, you know?

[pale narwhal]

Honestly yeah

Shadowsun is cheaper, lone op, and can fallback and shoot

The 5man squad size is just rough

[floral herald]

The aspect warrior team is 8 models but I get your drift

[vital barn]

so it is, I was being misled by the fact you get 12 in the box

[thin ibex]

is this like a tbh this doesnt trouble me. I have beef with obligatory authority of stealth teams for literally all tau lists

[pale narwhal]

As is the loss of fallback and shoot

[vital barn]

I am not a Kill Team knower, do not take my critiques as serious informed game design discussion here, I'm just going on vibes

[thin ibex]

incentive to try bringing other stuff

[pale narwhal]

Oh 100% it sucks ass that our main source of rerolls is a single unit

[upper canopy]

I think it should be more Canon that 3 custodes can be beaten by 12 servitors

[vital barn]

I love two things, making huge beatstick melee characters and killing units of super-elites with hordes of gigachumps, and modern 40k is less good at letting me chump it up

[floral herald]

Yeah I get the overall one there’s a lot of “power compression”

[jaunty dawn]

The 12 servitors have the internet so

[floral herald]

The chumpiest team atm is Chaos Cult

[rocky shale]

You get 10 and two little tokens but that's just because it's two striking scorpion squads for 40k

[pale narwhal]

Starscythes might be a solid replacement (perhaps with a commander w/ the lethal or sustained enhancement)

[floral herald]

Where you get 14 guys and 9 of them are pure trash Tshirt pistol and club guys

But they mutate into more powerful forms

[vital barn]

I will say that Battleclade is gorgeous and I might end up buying a couple of boxes just to use in big 40k, really nice models

[floral herald]

Really fun team

[jaunty dawn]

You would defeat the necrons with twelve servitors? We would defeat the necrons with one servitor

[thin ibex]

was kinda hoping they'd lose their massive amount of utility in trade for being a little more deadly

[vital barn]

I have considered doing an army that's a huge battalion of chump servitor-conversions, Fulgurites + Rangers, escorted by a small ruststalker + ironstrider police force

herd the penal servitors into the army and let them blend

I have the fulgurites already because 16 year old me thought the models looked dumb and made these

the posing is a little jank on a couple of them but they aren't the worst

[tired cairn]

Having only one model not have fallback and shoot is baffling

The main problem with servitors being chump action monkeys is that AdMech was really not hurting for chump action monkeys

[vital barn]

hey, I appreciate having action monkeys that aren't the flappy dudes or the horsies purely because I dislike their vibes

[rocky shale]

No they all don't have it, it used to be only one model did

[thin ibex]

yeah only one moddle could take a battlesuit support system that let them fall back and shoot

[vital barn]

Do 10e Orks still have the option for 'Ardboys anywhere or was that another casualty?

they seem to have gone from 6+ to 5+ t-shirt saves so I'd assume that's representing 6+ normal lads and 4+ ardboys

[rocky shale]

I think pretty much every "same models different statline" sheet is gone

[vital barn]

that wasn't even a different sheet most of the time

you just paid Xppm to change the save

[rocky shale]

Yeah that's all gone

[vital barn]

10e can't handle that kind of option, though, so you get datasheet bloat or you lose all the variant units

[desert jay]

10e can definitely handle more options than current exist, but also less options than were in 9e

[vital barn]

the 10e/9e difference is honestly a lot smaller than the 7e/everything afterwards difference, just due to the magnitude of the core rules shift

[desert jay]

I have noticed that a bunch of editions were roughly just updates to the prior and roughly back-compatable with un-updated stuff, and IIRC they're 2e, 4e, 5e, 7e, and 9e

So there's a non-zero chance that happens again for 11e

[sour sequoia]

I do love me some gearporn but I dont think every sculpt of mining tool needed to be a completely different statline

Especially when the box only gives one of each

[vital barn]

10e seems to be going quite well, 11e as tweak-and-stay-the-course makes sense

[sour sequoia]

10th is great! The worst spot we’ve had meta wise was DG/Knights meta and thats almost certainly never coming back

Good bones

[vital barn]

the thing that really gets me in 10e is not only that they rolled a bunch of stuff that shouldn't be together together, it's that there are now a bunch of models that have weapon statlines entirely disconnected from what they're holding

I have no idea how strong a given dude with a power sword is now

especially when they're characters

the basics of "we can probably fold these together" is fine in most cases, although I do think that combi-weapons were a step too far

I also like my separated-out power weapon types but 10e's system does not make it easy to make that meaningful so I can see why they rolled those together

[desert jay]

I think the game's never getting old combi-weapons back until they retire kits like the Tactical Squad

[vital barn]

makes a lot more sense in Horus Heresy

[vital barn]

what's the logic here?

[desert jay]

How many weapon options tacticals have with combis folded together

[vital barn]

tactical squads don't have any combis

apart from the sarge

[desert jay]

Yeah it does

Still would have to go on the datasheet

[vital barn]

oh, as in suddenly the sarge has another three wargear options, I see

[rocky shale]

There's stuff like the infernus hb for deathwatch that has one hybrid statline

But like 4 would be excessive

[vital barn]

that's negligible if you have a pre-8th or HH system where the sheet just says "combi-weapon" and then you refer to the list of standard combi-weapons

and honestly there's enough entries on the sheet already that I don't think it would be too bad regardless

[desert jay]

Yeah but I'm pretty sure they don't wanna go to weapons on separate sheets again

[vital barn]

like, would anyone notice if that bottom list had three more entries on it

[rocky shale]

The tac squad is probably dead in 11th as is

[vital barn]

it doesn't really help that in previous editions enough models shared wargear that having one list of guns at the back of the book made perfect sense, but in recent years there's been a strong drive to give every unit its own bespoke weapons that are merely bolter/plasma/melta/las themed

so the lists get longer and longer

[rocky shale]

Plus xenos exist

And don't have a shared standard gear list

[vital barn]

they (and Admech, Daemons etc.) also had shorter lists of guns to begin with, in practice it was totally fine

[desert jay]

It might very well be! Or tac sgts lose combis as an option but other sheets get the re-expanded combis

[vital barn]

the actual difficulty as I see it is that it's very hard to figure out a world where a one-shot meltagun strapped to a bolter is exactly as valuable as a bolt pistol, although it's not like 40k seems to care much about giving the sarge any incentive to keep his popguns as is

[rocky shale]

Space marine tactical squad with combiweapon sergeant datasheet

[vital barn]

lmao

[desert jay]

Okay, got curious and here's a list of Space Marine codex units with combis: Termie Captain, Jump Chaplain, Termie Librarian, LT w/ Combi, Tac Squad (Sgt only), Dev Squad (Sgt only), Sternguards (all models)

[vital barn]

the definition of "points for wargear saves you a page"

[floral herald]

Just make the sergeant his own datasheet

[desert jay]

This doesn't have any legends or suppliment units

Or if there's SOB or Guard or w/e with combis

[mental birch]

Me: ohno

Stealth suits got nerfed

[vital barn]

I wonder how many of the "primaris marines with X special weapon" units you could fold into a single Devastator Squad datasheet if you didn't care about keeping all the squad-unique abilities that they only really have because they're distinct units

[mental birch]

And their drones made redundant which is wild

[floral herald]

There’s a few for sure

[desert jay]

Uh... surprisingly few, because the new primaris units tend to be structured differently than the old devastator squads

[floral herald]

Eradicators and Hellblasters

[vital barn]

Infernus, Hellblaster, Eradicator, Eliminator, Desolation Squad are all on the list of things I would chop and roll into Devs, although that requires giving Devs a "1 in 3" wargear section for the variant guns

(which I can't help but feel exist entirely to justify them not just being devastators)

[floral herald]

Whoops I meant Infernus

Eradicators are gravis so pretty different

[vital barn]

eh, close enough by my book

but fair

they are just melta devs, though

[floral herald]

They’re mechanically pretty different

On account of being like T6

[vital barn]

they're power armoured space marines with multimeltas, they're Devastators in puffy winter coats

[rocky shale]

IMO I like all the different datasheet abilities tho

The game would be more bland if they were all the same

[floral herald]

I don’t mind em but I think they should be mix and match or something

[vital barn]

OK, but then I get my conscripts, vets and trueborn back

[floral herald]

More Yourdudes factors and better represents that the squads are just mission loadouts for the same guys

[vital barn]

the desolation squad is such a confusing unit, I'll be honest

missile launcher devastators, the saddest devs for many editions, have now been turned into a new, much stupider-looking squad

[floral herald]

(I also want a “crusade vets” primaris tactical squad which mixes and matches tacticus gear though)

[desert jay]

The thing is, Devastators are 1 sgt with a special gun (not a heavy gun) and 4 guys with heavy guns (and optional 5 guys with basic bolters)

[floral herald]

It’s honestly kinda awful

[desert jay]

Most of the new primaris guys are 3 guys all with the specialized guns

[rocky shale]

Paint the new DW kill team the same as your army scheme?

[floral herald]

Wouldn’t be a bad way to emulate it yeah

[vital barn]

congratulations devastators, your sarge is now optional and your min unit size is lower

[floral herald]

Devastator squad organization has annoyed me since 4e

[vital barn]

I don't know, maybe I'm just a huge grognard but I feel that a lot of things that should be wargear options are now units and a lot of things that should be units got deleted

and you can't roll half these sheets together purely because you can't take an odd-sized squad and you can't charge points for different guns

if you could do that you could reintroduce so many options without noticeably increasing datasheet count

[desert jay]

Actually no that's wrong, half of them are like this, the other half are 5-10 all with the theme gun

[vital barn]

devs are admittedly one of those real legacy-structure units, even in Horus Heresy they don't work like this

[floral herald]

The root cause of it is I think just the 40K rule where they demand a 1 to 1 correspondence between boxes and datasheets

And we know that GW doesn’t need this rule

[vital barn]

they're just "take 5+ guys, they all get [the same heavy or special weapon]"

except the EC specials who give the sarge a big pair of binocs instead

[junior summit]

I'm reading Lion son of the forest and the bits where the space marines go "we're really heavy so walking on gravel slopes sucks" are funny

[desert jay]

Primaris units are all over the place because they were never designed with the expectation of combining them down the line in 2026 or w/e as they got released a few kits at a time

Primaris would need a range refresh

[junior summit]

I'm imagining a space marine trying to do american ninja warrior

[floral herald]

I mean, think of the buyers

[rocky shale]

I think drukhari and GK players would start hunting ultramarines fans in the street if there was a primaris refresh

[floral herald]

They were making up new slurs for ultramarines fans after the new Titus dropped

[jaunty dawn]

I do think that like the weird arbitrary rules around the range just make it entirely untenable

Like with the new stealth suits

Its nonsense

[floral herald]

Which weird arbitrary rules?

[jaunty dawn]

Like

Yeah they have to use the models that exist

But how that works in practice is entirely arbitrary

[floral herald]

Also makes me a little mad that the rules for the stealth suits in bighammer dropped before KT

[jaunty dawn]

Theres nothing stopping them having trueborn that use the kabalite kit really but theyre still gone

Or wargear options that arent represented on the model

[floral herald]

KW are from long enough ago that an upgrade sprue for trueborn with various heads and arms would be easy

[vital barn]

Whenever I think about the wargear-must-be-represented-in-the-kit rule I think of the Horus Heresy 1.0 wargear list for Magi, approximately none of which was ever represented on any model because they're just names for things like "a bunch of mechadendrites" or "cool optics"

the assembly instructions for the Archmagos points at a bunch of random bits of the model and defines them as certain wargear pieces, but you'd never know his mecha-pincer is a Machinator Array unless you read those

[vital barn]

you know I thought the Dominus in 40k had been slightly toned down statline-wise to go with the 8->10e steady encheapening of characters but I just saw one with the melee enhancement solo kill a Shield-Captain, good job Magos

help I'm being dragged back into Actually Playing Admech

[vital barn]

I quite liked Son of the Forest, although part of it was that I was expecting a Dark Imperium-style selling-the-model montage and instead I got only a bit of that and a lot of guest appearances of Blorbo From My Shows in the form of various Horus Heresy units

[junior summit]

Yeah I was kinda hoping for more blorbo content

[vital barn]

the destroyer was fun, I did like him bitching about having ran out of phosphex ages ago

cenobium guy and breacher guy didn't do very much

[desert jay]

The timing is just because they bundled it with the new Ultramarine release, if they weren't now you might be waiting weeks

[brittle salmon]

This is a bit of a necro, but Deathwatch in 10e have consistently been getting good tournament placements even post nerfs

Black Spear Task Force literally just ranked 3rd at Worlds

[floral herald]

Wait really?

[brittle salmon]

It's a faction for little freaks but it's by no means bad, just hard to pilot

Yes

Got to Semis, knocked out by the winning AdMech Hunter Clade player

[sour sequoia]

Deathwatch, GSC, AdMech, Drukhari are the actual pervert armies this ed

If you onetrick em there are Results

[brittle salmon]

It turns out double efficiency uppy downy is REALLY good

[desert jay]

GK has a lot of uppy downy too but I guess is held back by a less well rounded list

[rocky shale]

GK struggle to kill tanks but centurion do not

[desert jay]

Yeah, which is also why the Raven Guard list does well

[sour sequoia]

GK has a lot of issues and is probably the only army that deserves to charge out of 6”
Deep Strike

But don’t worry, Death Guard actually has the unstoppable-teleports-behind-you-into-melee

[past sphinx]

12 PLASMA PISTOLS AND A PLASMA GUN BABY

IF YOURE NOT OVERCHARGIN YOURE UNDERCHARGIN

[floral herald]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN-_eTRqbIU

New Mountainside tabletop

[past sphinx]

210 for a 10 man unit of scout murderizing

also they dont get the wizard keyword if you take a runepriest

because of course runepriests arent wizards

[floral herald]

lmfao

that rules

all nerds stuffed in lockers

[jaunty dawn]

Thousand sons in shambles

[tired cairn]

But the Runic Stave is still Psychic lol

[desert jay]

There's a wulfen character?

[brittle salmon]

theres the one dreadnought guy, yeah

[desert jay]

Oh I guess Murderfang does have both keywords, huh

Now I think it's funny that the wolf scouts do get the buff from Bjorn

[remote wharf]

Even those old wolves can learn a thing or two from the oldest there is.

[past sphinx]

you can also make an hq a wulfen with wolftouched

[desert jay]

Ah I see

[charred bridge]

Man they really killed the black and Scottish guy off screen

[sweet solar]

aint ginger vegeta a wulfen?

[desert jay]

IDK who that is b/c IDK woofs that well, they're not in the wulfen tag

[sweet solar]

ah i misremembered

lucas the ttickster

he aint

[vital barn]

enjoying Renegades: Harrowmaster immensely

good AL book

even if I did have my criticisms of Solomon's little speech

they have a surprising amount of Horus Heresy gear and organisation for a Legion that did ten thousand years the slow way, I appreciate seeing Headhunters and Storm Eagles

[runic swallow]

Tbh they’re probably able to keep it going longer via relatively low-impact operations

Since when you’re mostly doing spec ops stuff you don’t have a chance to lose your stuff as often as doing full blown mass engagements

A squad of dudes doing a cult uprising is less chance to lose irreplaceable gear

[vital barn]

yeah these guys fight smart

opening scene is them going supply raiding while covered by a cult uprising they started, running into some Primaris, killing a few with traps and good wargear and then hitting the bricks without objective complete because they're fighting unknown enemies and they didn't last this long by committing to dodgy-looking fights

they drag their dead officers with them, too, since they have relic wargear

[runic swallow]

Honestly cool

[vital barn]

also, storm eagle is the prettiest Space Marine plane and I'm glad they have them

[runic swallow]

Smarter, less scrungly Night Lords

[vital barn]

these boys

[runic swallow]

I’m still remembering the short story of an Alpha Legionnaire causing a planetary uprising with just a radio and a small asteroid knocked off course

[vital barn]

I can never imagine the Stormraven as a real plane, it looks so stubby

our main character gives a speech which just screams "the author took a basic political science class about fascist propaganda and will now recite it paragraph for paragraph" but aside from my slight annoyance about that breaking my immersion somewhat it's nice that they are talking politics in a practical sense

they do it in Legion, too

there's a reason they're my favourite traitors

[runic swallow]

Yeah they’re very good

[vital barn]

also I like the scale patterns, although I know others who hate them so possibly it's like power armour marmite

[runic swallow]

Yeah I like the scales

[vital barn]

they have named their barge's escort ships Sinister and Dextral

which is just "leftie" and "rightie"

I suppose that's the most imaginative naming scheme I've seen for them yet considering in the heresy all their ships just had greek letters for names

so far this is very much a space marine competence porn book, which is extremely rare honestly

they're not Just Better at fighting anyone, with the exception of their void captains in space and Chaos Lords in melee versus fresh-from-the-tank primaris with no experience, but they actually know what they're doing

[untold swallow]

I have an extremely language-nerd-brained complaint about these names

XD

[runic swallow]

Being willing to be the guys to go “nope, we’re leaving” without being the Night Lord kind of “aaaahhhh run for it and trip the guy you don’t like to slow down the people after us!” is a skill in 40k

[vital barn]

at least they're both latin

I have seen far too many people joining greek suffixes to latin words or vice versa

[untold swallow]

yes but one just means 'Left' while the other means 'to the Right' specifically!!!!!!!

[vital barn]

wouldn't it be "Dexter" if they lined them up

[untold swallow]

It should be Sinistral and Dextral or Sinister and Dexter!

[vital barn]

I feel that would break a few viewers' immersion more than it does ours

[untold swallow]

Sinistral is a word

[vital barn]

Sinistral would work, though

as in the Heresy the legion has a small minority of human psykers and magi among its ranks and they get an actual voice in things, so my 30k army of mildly daemoned-up Astartes backed up by Mechanicum armour and warptech specialists actually works as one coherent unit right through to 40k, this isn't even really an alliance

in the Heresy they're "The Erebran Instrument" due to the origin of the tech they use, in 40k they're the Soulkillers

(sorry, Johnny Silverhand)

[untold swallow]

lol

This reminds me I once described the relationship between the headmates that made up my Kitsune Changeling Pathfinder 2e character as 'What if V and Johnny Got Married About It™'

[vital barn]

oh they have a magos wearing green, fuck yeah, finally someone else who recognises that green looks great on techpriests

he has gene-bulked power armour menials with all his custom genemods on

Temu astartes, but they can fight

[runic swallow]

Smh they’re clearly Temu Genehounds

Love the Genehounds

[vital barn]

my own boys, for reference, I think if I did them again I'd go for a deeper green and lighter brass

[junior summit]

Finished interceptor city in a positively unhealthy four hour binge

Its good, one of the main plots gets brought up and then shot in the head in rapid succession which is a little jarring

It inverting the usual talented rookie trope is pretty fun

[vital barn]

However, a projectile streaked away, and a few seconds later a tiny
speck in the distance erupted into flame as its oxygen-laced atmosphere
gave life to the explosions that ripped it apart.
‘What was that?’ Jarvul Glaine asked.
‘T’au railgun,’ Krozier Va’kai replied, and now he was smiling the smile
of a carnodon that had scented blood.

these fucking guys

Alpha Legion using Rewards of Treason on new and interesting stuff, I see

[brittle salmon]

nodding in approval

[west zealot]

Harrowmaster is a fun book

[vital barn]

it is

I have now gotten past the mandatory "beat up a Forge World" section, I am surprised even this book had one

at least these Skitarii managed to kill a few things and cause a few problems before they were ran over and their forge world once again casually mind controlled by magic scrapcode, which is the solution to any and all Mechanicus forces including Titans and leads to literally every other party in the book correctly shit-talking them as useless incompetents

[vital barn]

somehow I wonder how the Mechanicus even survived to M42 without apparently garnering any respect or any military prowess

[pine matrix]

I really do agree scrap code is the laziest goddamn plot device in 40k fiction

I stopped reading Mechanicus when Horus just flips a bunch of tech priests to the traitors with Evil Malware

[vital barn]

on a whim I decided to make a a list of books where the Mechanicus all get casually mind controlled versus books where they don't and even I was surprised it was this lopsided

[pine matrix]

You could do something interesting where the Tech Priests have abandoned critical thinking to their machines, so when the machine is compromised they just follow it blindly, or many tech priests have lobotomised themselves via cranial implants until they are more like chatbots with plasma guns for arms

[vital barn]

OK, but in that case please be nice and remove them as a playable faction rather than expecting me to take them remotely seriously because they are just wacky waving inflatable arm-flailing tubmen with meltaguns

I am bored of going "ooh, my favourite faction is in a book" and then watching them get casually squished again because everyone apparently just has a Deactivate Admech button

hell, in Mechanicum they indicate that the Mechanicus Noosphere is exceptionally good at clearing scrapcode

[pine matrix]

Yeah, it stinks

[vital barn]

hell, "the Alpha Legion raid a forge world to steal gear" - totally fine, that's the kind of thing they do, but don't just go "yeah, they fought a couple of hundred skitarii, casually suborned a warlord titan and then hacked the planet offscreen, conquering it all in one stroke", that's just kind of rubbing it in

[pine matrix]

Are the Forges of Mars books any good at avoiding that?

[vital barn]

no

they are more interesting in other ways, though

unfortunately they predate the Admech as a playable faction so most of the screentime is on a Rogue Trader, some Black Templars, some Eldar and some Cadians

what techpriests are there are cool, at least

[fossil violet]

Is there a reason to not take every optional on a skitarii ranger unit

Besides the number of attacks tradeoff

[sour sequoia]

The pistol’s kinda whatever and I’d usually go for raw output over the 1 pistol but the special weapons are all solid and no wargear costs = go wild

[fossil violet]

Gotcha gotcha

Wasn't sure if there was something I was missing

[junior summit]

Yeah its pretty common

Spoilers for assassinorum kingmaker ||the entire sacristan complement besides one person gets virus'd and the plot is that they need the knight suits because they're virus resistant||

[vital barn]

I hadn't even heard of that one

possibly they are just lazy hacks and this is literally on their "stock plots" list

I wonder how much better these books would be if the editors just banned any form of mind control hacking

if you want to go to the forge world you need to actually deal with the fact the Admech have scary guns in a slightly more intelligent way

[bright dove]

There's the necron way: Have scarier guns.

[vital barn]

Reasonable, because at least there's some semblance of taking the opposition seriously. I'm not asking for Ultramarines plot armour here, I just want there to be an actual fight more than 1/5 of the time.

[sour sequoia]

Necrons and GSC is the good foils imo

(Completely unbiased)

[vital barn]

both of them still do the "you are instantly chumped by magic hacking/undetectable purple infiltrators" a lot of the time but it's slightly less common for Necrons, don't have a good sample size for GSC yet

Chaos is absolutely the worst offender

Loyalist Space Marines tend to just casually punch all the admech to death while ignoring hits from weapons that can absolutely take their limbs off, but they do that when fighting any kind of xenos also, and Admech is in about the same place worf-effect-wise as your average xenos army so that's rather less annoying

[sour sequoia]

Day of Ascension’s bit for it was just “Tyranids were already here for generations, nice servitors you made out of fully enthralled biomass dipshit”

[vital barn]

still not entirely sure how that's meant to work, since servitors don't have control over their meat bodies, but psychic nonsense gets a pass on that

the genestealer-tainted Skitarii made a lot more sense

[sour sequoia]

That part too. Bladed Cog’s existence means there’s probably enough freakass biologis out there your hard lines for “that is a genestealer kill everybody now” are out the window

10th is the only ed we haven’t been able to ally in a bunch of admech

[runic swallow]

Yeah I don’t understand how a fully lobotomized thing could be controlled just because it’s from the thing, it’s not like Tyranid cells are The Thing

[vital barn]

yeah, Forge Worlds do get genestealer infestations so that's totally fair, it's the servitors that confuse me

[sour sequoia]

Tyranid cells are The Thing

[runic swallow]

Yeah servitors make no sense

[sour sequoia]

Its weaponized ecology right down to the microbes, comorragh gets away with it via alternate dimensions

[runic swallow]

They’re not! They’re not independent organisms, you don’t see a gaunt claw dragging itself along to kill you or growing a new gaunt out of it

[vital barn]

the old Mechanicum also used to fight on that scale, the Mechanicus loses all drip and just becomes useless tin men vulnerable to everything

the opening of Titandeath has some very cool mechanicum ecosystem warfare

[sour sequoia]

It is One Whole Book lmao do we wanna compare jobber status :p

[vital barn]

but I really don't think a genestealer hybrid turned into a servitor would be capable of just standing up and doing hybrid things, or else you'd see hybrids that have been shot directly in the head doing the same thing

[runic swallow]

That’s a very different thing, just having a part of the biosphere that is a microorganism doesn’t mean every single cell of all the things in that ecosystem are all independent at the cellular level

[vital barn]

I am happy to compare jobber status because the admech would win handily on the basis that GSC keep racking up those sweet sweet named character kills and don't have anything important to lose

see: Shadow Throne, where they happily laser a bunch of custodes and SOS and then hit da bricks

Hive Fleets on the other hand are very much down with Admech and the Avatar of Khaine in the jobber office

a few platoons of dipshits with mining lasers have a far better record against Marines and Custodes than Jimmy Swarmlord does

[desert jay]

Secret second brain that gets missed in the drudgery of industrial servitorization /s

[vital barn]

when Admech got their congratulations-on-being-a-faction toy commercial book then they somehow managed to have two forge worlds exploded during it while they were fighting a few hundred iron warriors on the other side of the galaxy and then left in disgrace, for reference on what kind of jobbing we're talking about here

I literally can't think of a book they win that isn't about Cawl

Titanicus, I guess

[tired cairn]

Something, something it regenerates the brain something

[rocky shale]

Avatar of Khaine is the ultimate jobber:supposed power level ratio

[vital barn]

nah, imperator titan

but it's close

it hurts more when it's the Avatar because he's losing 1v1 fistfights every time

[rocky shale]

Yeah random space marine captain dingus punching AoK to death is criminal

[junior summit]

Forges of mars? Technically?

But that's also more of an ensemble piece and also they lose a lot in that book

[soft willow]

Spoilers: ||They actually only barely manage to avert the worst crisis and it's implied at the end that they still fail to stop the big bad.|| so no not there either.

[junior summit]

I mean I'd still describe that as a win ||and the big bad is definitely stopped he's just not dead||

Flesh and steel is definitely a win though its a small one

[jaunty dawn]

Avatar of khaine always losing is so weird cause like

He cant even win without it being a pyrrhic victory right

I thought

Oh wait what

He just respawns in his chamber?

i thought summoning him was like a huge risk

[junior summit]

You burn an exarch to summon him

[jaunty dawn]

Avatar of khaine even lost in an eldar book

Ynnari fought one one time

The biggest and baddest one

I guess thats fair yeah

[west zealot]

He gets a massive win in a caine novel, taking out a greater demon of slannesh... By being Being orbital dropped on her

[junior summit]

Admech wins the Imperator novel

Though they lose several titans

Nah the AoK wins that one

Just makes a big entrance

I think one gets genestealer'd somehow which is a big ???

[jaunty dawn]

Stealed

[junior summit]

Iirc one suffocates in vacuum

No idea how

The Iyanden Avatar gets run over by a couple dozen carnifexes because the swarmlord had a headache

[pastel rampart]

The Avatar did get some real fucking metal parts in the Valedor novel where the eldar have to abandon the avatar, but when they come back they find it still fighting atop a literal mountain of tyranid corpses.

[junior summit]

I think thats the same book as the dozen carnifexes avatar

[pastel rampart]

I think so, yeah

[junior summit]

But I believe the cool one is biel tan

Oh theres one in Forges of Mars that gets a bunch of kills including named space marines without helmets

Which is pretty sick

[west zealot]

Literally made new mountains

[junior summit]

Iirc on the tabletop its pretty sick though

[west zealot]

The dozen carni death works for me because it's very in keeping with eldar arrogance

Kaine: honor duel!!!
Swamlord: ???

[junior summit]

Actually yeah is there any book where the admech actually win a field battle on their own not counting titans?

[tired cairn]

The other Craftworld told me that their Avatar of Khain keeps falling in battle so I asked how do they keep finding exarchs to summon him and they say they don't, each one is irreplaceable and so I say it sounds like you are going to run out of exarchs by sacrificing them so the Avatar can die ingloriously in battle and then their farseers started crying

[broken dew]

Decided i'm gonna do art of the chief apothecary of my chapter since i've been wanting to do more art for them

Thinking of doing some MKV Heresy armor for them

[past sphinx]

chief apothecary in mk5?

i know just such a man

[runic swallow]

Ah, what a delightful soaked rat of a man

[past sphinx]

the best worst man you could ever ask for

[runic swallow]

And his friend circle of other absolute rat bastards (derogatory and complimentary)

[broken dew]

What a lad

Surely my guy Kaerastes Vohkh will be just as good as Talos

I was gonna give my lad a jump pack though

Jump pack medic

[past sphinx]

high speed doctoring

[runic swallow]

Paramedic

[broken dew]

Torn on if i wanna go with the stupid 30k fucking jet turbines or the version with the big square exhaust vents

Also i'm going with Heresy armor even though it's just straight up worse than many alternatives because my lads are suckers for fixing old raggedy shit and historically significant wargear

I think the fuckass turbines would be mad funny to put on an apothecary but the square vent one would look way better i think

[wet reef]

im warding this chat for later

[broken dew]

I almost have to go with the jet turbines they're too funny

"We strapped two thunderhawk turbines to our chief apothecary and sent him to go apply medicine at high speed"

[broken dew]

Jaghatai Khan approved tactic

[cinder wraith]

immersion ruined, refunding my backing rn

[remote wharf]

Romancing the space elf with the human skin loincloth is okay but not the 8 ft tall post-human warrior with one? I see how it is.

[hollow laurel]

I have seen a terrible idea that I must share.
36 Centurions.

[vital barn]

Only the Darkmech, who put in a very good performance against the Astartes and Custodes raids against Mars and racked up one win and two draws-by-mutual-annihilation, albeit mostly with daemon engines

the best the actual Mechanicus can do is winning a few tactical skirmishes in the books before they get scrapcoded and removed from the plot

[charred bridge]

Sorry none of the astartes fuck

You want 8 ft tall post human warrior in loincloth you to go Commoragh, it may be a horrific flesh abomination in great pain but you can put a human skin loincloth if you ask and they don't skin you

[broken dew]

they are likely to skin you tbh

average Dark Eldar situation

[charred bridge]

Owlcat letting you romance a Drukhari, or at least try to is wild.

It's just a matter of when Marazhai decides to take it a different direction

[broken dew]

Gl cause you're gonna need it

[charred bridge]

The next step is letting you romance a Necron lord (they think you're a Necron and they're still flesh until one day they see you as a rival assassin and kill you while mourning that their loved one is nowhere to be seen)

[broken dew]

😔

getting my fuck on with uhhhh checks notes Nemesor Zandrekh?

[charred bridge]

Obyron: you dare bought a primitive onto-
Zahndrek: aw what a lovely lady you have there, most young necrotyr simply don't have ambitions like they used to

[broken dew]

getting freaky with Zandrekh while Obyron watches with disdain

[charred bridge]

The secret 2nd option to survive dinner

[broken dew]

lmao

[charred bridge]

The dark souls of dating Sim visual novels

[broken dew]

https://tenor.com/view/for-the-freaky-throne-for-the-golden-throne-gif-11116673465649435171

[broken dew]

sometimes you gotta lock in

it's maybe not optimal but needs must

[broken dew]

i've decided i am DEFINITELY giving Mr.Lord Apotheca Sanctus Kaerestes Vohkh a jump pack because high speed healing is just too funny and cool to pass up

still torn on the fucking turbines or if i should do the more reasonable and good looking ones

[thin ibex]

I actually rather enjoy the way they handled the aeldari romance

In RT

Spoiler || In that they never stop finding you physically repulsive and it never gets physical, but its still a deeply spiritual and intimate thing||

[pine matrix]

||Where are the monster fucker Eldar equivalent||

[acoustic sierra]

Id like to compare this to the proportions of DA books where its just another Fallen Sorceror as a "third act "twist""

[desert jay]

That ain’t 21 minis

[pine matrix]

So I was looking at the tau army lists to see if you gotta have a battleline or if you can go full Battlesuit and from the looks of them the Battleline units don't have sticky objectives?

[rocky shale]

All breachers/fire warriors seems really bad

[glad spear]

Kroot Carnivores have field craft which is your sticky objectives

They're not technically battleline

[glad spear]

Breachers for a devilfish first strike montka can do a lot with their breach and clear ability. Being able to reroll wound when attacking someone in range of a objective marker goes hard

But once you get into melee, they just kinda get dogged on

They have their use cases is what I'm trying to say, and can be formidable if used correctly

[rocky shale]

Breacherfish are good yeah but 6x of them still is a terrible army

No range, no movement tricks, no anti tank besides weight of fire

[glad spear]

Yeah don't have them as your only thing

Combined arms is the Tau game

Or roll hard on the kroot or full mech

[rocky shale]

Ohhh wait deimos was saying taking battleline at all not exclusively battleline

Oops lol

[glad spear]

Yeah yeah

A breacherfish full army would be hilarious to drop on the table

I like running like 2-3 squads with a fish, like one strike and 2 breacher to run home objectives and then use suits to fill their backline or cause some big damage via rail gun

I've also yet to run my stormsurge in an army either, but I want to

[sour sequoia]

Breachers are in contention for best battleline in the game with plague marines, gargoyles, acolytes

Incredible fuckin unit my buddy pretty much always starts his army with two + character buffs + devilfish taxis

The trick with tau is you can’t ignore melee like you used to so you need to have a plan, sometimes its rampagers, sometimes its crisis suits, sometimes its moveblocking with kroot and piranhas

[glad spear]

Yeah my melee deterrent is usually some freaky ass crisis units

[sour sequoia]

The other good tau player around here absolutely does just take 3x3 rampagers in like every list, mainly runs aux cadre which makes em deeply unpleasant to stand around

[glad spear]

With some support from backline fire

Rampagers also go hard, but I haven't built mine yet

[rocky shale]

Tau need a melee fights first unit with 2+ WS but like 1 attack 1 damage because it's just Tau doing iajutsu

[tired cairn]

Battleline just means you can take 6x instead of 3x of them. And some rules interact with it (and often they have more OC than typical for their size). You don't have to take them or anything

[sour sequoia]

Ironically, fights first is one of the things they struggle the absolute least with once you wrap your head around it

But I’d still love some iaijutsu

“Omg Lion hiiiii” [breachers disembark]

[mental birch]

You dont need it

I'm thinking maybe cutting the carnivore unit

🙁

Post stealtb suit nerf

[rocky shale]

Can't fight first if you don't fight

[mental birch]

@sour sequoia i'm a stealth suit frrak

[pine matrix]

Word

[pine matrix]

Good to know!

[sour sequoia]

Anybody smart was, 3x3 because they’re your best army rule applicators

Idk how it shakes out with the 110pt 5-mans, may be dropping to 2

[tired cairn]

Raveners also got mildly hit by the increased number of models being suboptimal. Though they benefited from the Subterranean Assault detachment being good for them

[mental birch]

I alrady dtopped to 2

2x stealrh 2x pathfinders

[sour sequoia]

With the reworked spotting rules I think that’s plenty, honestly. I would start fuckin with railgun+missile Broadsides heavy

[pale narwhal]

Apparently third party stores are getting 4-6 each of the Christmas battleforces

Which seems rather low

[thin ibex]

I'm actually not at all upset about the stealthsuit changes despite knowing it's a significant nerf, because I resent how they're effectively mandatory max out units

Fact is we don't have a better spotter though

[tired cairn]

I think that's a pretty typical number of limited edition boxes for third party stores to get unfortunately :/

[thin ibex]

I'm also mildly resentful that the proper use of pathfinders is to have them sacrifice themselves in the first few turns aggressively. Id love for them to be the factions main spotters

[floral herald]

That does seem fairly normal to me yeah

[pale narwhal]

It’s apparently the lowest battleforce allocation ever

[tired cairn]

Oof

[pale narwhal]

Probably going to have to try order from my local gw bc no way do the local 3rd parties have enough stock

[sour sequoia]

If there’s one thing I appreciate abt our weird scene up here its that our gamestores are really good at allocating boxes to people who actually want/need em

It might mean you gotta. Drive five hours each way to kalispell or some shit like we had to do for the 25-26 mission packs/they were handing em out at tourneys for months

[rocky shale]

My small LGS gets good enough allocation considering we have like 2 players max for any faction.

The bigger LGS that does discount rates and sells online tho is always low

[mental birch]

If these world eaters stop scouting for turn 1 chaeges

[thin ibex]

Table stuffing just kinda works, but my understanding of pathfinders lore just rebels against the notion that that's what they're for

[jaunty dawn]

They are a screening force

Its just normally they get to bug out before they get overrun

[sour sequoia]

Take more kroot

Unironically World Eaters should autolose into Tau with the proper amount of krootscreen

[thin ibex]

but they're not traditionally a screening force! They're a scout and skirmish force, which has overlap with screening; but they're force recon and patrol

the kroot are traditionally screening forces

[mental birch]

2 pathfinders is usually enough screening to force my WE opponents tk gum up into my

[thin ibex]

ironically they're synergy with devilfish is also kind of not reflected in the current gamestate

[mental birch]

Guns

[thin ibex]

though i can live with that

their*

[jaunty dawn]

Well yeah its just every 10e 40k match is a battle where two patrols immediately meet each other at close range

[thin ibex]

in most battle plans, they do not exist in front of the line, they exist on the flanks

[mental birch]

Any 30k mechqnicum treaks with advice on Thallaxes?

[thin ibex]

because in the lore they're also the primary source of reliable markerlighting

[runic swallow]

Summon Misc, he’ll have opinions

[jaunty dawn]

And like long range capabilities are of dubious use cause all 10e battles are dense cityfights

[sour sequoia]

@vital barn whatever. go my emotional support brit

[vital barn]

always take the optional sarge if you don't plan to have a Magos Reductor or Archimandrite in the unit, they're Cool 12 regardless so they'll never get suppressed but they need the decent Ld to avoid panicking when shot at

chain bayonets are mostly pointless, they can't punch well and 2pts is a lot for D2 on 6s to wound

the big change this edition is that they can all take special weapons if they want, so you want to really take advantage of that

none of them are bad exactly but there's so much 2+ armour around that I favour melta and photon

a couple of lightning guns to soak up casualties and trigger Suppression checks are good to have, but you want more than the traditional 1 in 3 specials

most of my squads are either 4 specials 2 lightning gun or 6 and 3

just to keep the symmetry neat

deepstriking multimelta suicide squad is always a classic, there's usually something for you to instagib even if they struggle to do meaningful damage to AV14/14/14 on the drop

I'm still not sure how to allocate meltabombs, since they cost a decent amount, but since you get one per model they're pretty decent at chunking heavy armour if you get to run a whole squad into it

my instinct says to put them on either multimelta DS squads (which forces the enemy to answer them when they drop, because they kill one tank when they drop and then threaten two on every following round with shoot + charge) or the plasma fusil squads so they have something to do against tanks

I'm also fairly convinced that a big pile of photon thrusters with a Magos Reductor can kill tanks pretty well, since if the tanks are stationary they go up to S9 and can plausibly pen anything, but that's more of an opportunistic threat since it mostly just forces your opponent to keep shuffling backwards and forwards and not getting their Heavy bonuses

six photon thrusters will still annihilate light armour like Rhinos even without the bonus, and they're fine into infantry and the lighter dreadnoughts also

they also have the unique niche of being quite good into the most elite of terminators, since spamming D1 shots ignores Eternal Warrior

[desert jay]

Y'know, I really like the "Warhammer art through the years" but I really wish they had the artists and where/when the piece was first published

[broken dew]

i feel like that should be a thing by default if you're collating artworks like that

[charred bridge]

MTG is rather good at that, or it was

[untold swallow]

I commed Freyja for one of her cool digibash drawovers of my Deathwatch character

[junior summit]

Idle thought: mechanicus librarian who has read every text on how to command an army available and is consequently actually pretty good at it because they're not obsessed with the macguffin of instant victory

[untold swallow]

Is that not most Magos Domini?

[junior summit]

They dont act like it

[desert jay]

Ultimately gets assassinatorum’d because they tried to unfuck the logistics end and stepped on the wrong governor’s toes in doing so

[untold swallow]

I mean... sure, but no one in the setting is a strategic maestro, despite claims the boys in blue shit them out like nobody's business.

[sour sequoia]

Setting’s two confirmed Strategy McGees grand plans inevitably devolve to “sit even more big fuck guns outside and shell the city even harder” so like

The bar’s in hell

[untold swallow]

These would be Big Blue and The Wall, yes?

[sour sequoia]

Dorn & Perty, the primarchs designated “only strategist who could take terra” and “only strategist who could hold terra versus the heresy”

[charred bridge]

40k could have used a Sun Tzu

[floral herald]

Puretide

[charred bridge]

In the wise words of Sun Tzu, keep your siege weapons off the frontlines and keep the big guns far from danger

Sun Tzu says why is infantry charging the front lines without any vehicle support

Against a fortified enemy with artillery set up

[charred bridge]

Meanwhile his student Farsight: fuck it we ball fuck it we ball sword mechs

[thin ibex]

Honestly, I feel like it's understated how farsight reverse wrote the entire codex astartes, homeboy is actually a genius

[past sphinx]

what did they do to big blue dear god

[paper bluff]

You think farsight and guilliman could sit down and talk?

[paper bluff]

Bald?

[past sphinx]

his head is like 20% larger

[paper bluff]

Getting juiced up just by being near gman

[pastel rampart]

Fixing up an old and battered 2e rhino by printing out some Vindicator parts.

Whoever owned this thing previously must've used grandpa's plastic weld or something.

[charred bridge]

I mean he talked with Yvrainne and didn't kill her

[merry lagoon]

It's important to remember that the most important part of strategic genius is winning

[charred bridge]

Imagine if cawl brings back another primarch but his new begrudging buddy is a Tau

First Eldar then Tau

[charred bridge]

Don't forget, don't lose. I think about that every day when I remember how you lost the game.

[past sphinx]

Gulliman trying to be diplomatic holding back every instinct to kill every xenos in a ten kilometer radius on his resurrection

[charred bridge]

Cawl is there any other xenos that helped you ressurect me besides Yvrainne.
Cawl: deep mechanical inhale

I think Trazyn maybe was the only other one

He didn't help but his involvement was key

[junior summit]

Leman russ needs to play nice with an earth caste engineer to get out of commoraugh

Worst case scenario because not only does he need to work with a xeno he needs to work with someone who can read

[charred bridge]

Can russ also grab Jaghaitai on his way out

[pale narwhal]

Aun’shi and russ meet in conmoragh and have to escape together

[junior summit]

Thats not as funny

Sticking russ with an actual nerd is hilarious

[junior summit]

Depends on whether you count all of the definitely-not-xenos tech cawl "found"

[charred bridge]

Imagine if Vulkan came back on an Ork craft and reveal it was slow coming back cause he respawned deep in ork territory and for some reason after eating the ork waaagh generator nuke he became a war boss and constantly had to respawn cause ork shios would blow up and kill him

Jaghaitai Khan coming back on a feral nid cause it was really fast and he managed to tame it

[charred bridge]

I'm pretty sure Cawl is 40% xenos tech at this point

[past sphinx]

ARCH-HERETECK

[charred bridge]

Hey now he went to tech court for this

[past sphinx]

thats what makes him an Arch one

he convinces others to go along with his hereteckness

[charred bridge]

It's not tek heresy I'm simply combining tech of various STCs to make it better

Whats with the primaris gene seeds and the xenos tech used for gulliman's suit

[junior summit]

There was a fanfic way way back that had a friendly GSC empire on the basis of the tyranids having turned into a horrible gribbly without them so they just kinda kept going

[runic swallow]

The Khan if he ever shows back up is best just coming in as a guy going “what up, what did I miss”

And just having a bunch of inexplicable stories of the stuff he got up to that never 100% line up but all seem plausible enough on their own

[broken dew]

Khan just pops out of the busted webway project on Terra on a jetbike and does an Akira slide

also jump pack medic time lets go

[charred bridge]

I still want this headcanon to be true that Khan really wasnt gone that long but he saw the Imperium, saw the direction of how borked it is going to be, just left and went back to killing Drukhari cause he can do something about that but not fix the Imperium

[broken dew]

i decided to give him the stupid fucking jet turbines and it's actually peak

[runic swallow]

Yeah honestly he probably is just doing his own thing way out somewhere else

Which, honestly I hope so for him, ride far, ride fast my dude

[broken dew]

he's going fast as fuck somewhere for sure

[charred bridge]

The silliest shit post theory I've heard is he went so fast with his jet biker gang he left the galaxy and that's who the Tyranids are running from

[broken dew]

thinking i'm going to either put the Dusk Defiant logo on the left knee because that's where i've put it on other characters with unavailable shoulders, or just the chestplate

[broken dew]

did too much speedweed and entered the speedforce

[charred bridge]

Imagine you're the flash and you see a guy keeping up and he's standing like this but with his arms crossed

Or where Jaghaitai Khan found his way into the Uma universe

[broken dew]

absolute aura

[pastel rampart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4xZUr0BEfE All while blasting this.

[broken dew]

Tempted to have part of the reason for him having a jump pack be that he got a taste for speed during a mission where he ended up fighting alongside White Scars

Either that or he dueled some Speed Freekz and ended uo catching the bug that way

[runic swallow]

“I’ve got the neeeed for speeeed”

[broken dew]

Thinking of having a chapter in-joke of calling members of the chapter who are just a bit much like one of the other legions as the sons if those legions primarchs

[charred bridge]

Love the idea of inter chapter blending

[broken dew]

The chapter master for instance is exceptionally good and focused on planning so people could call him son of guilliman jokingly

[charred bridge]

I like the idea of some deathwatch serving with salamander and coming out of the watch as the most pyromanical space marine

[broken dew]

My man Arystichor

His title is "The Earthscorcher" for a reason

[untold swallow]

my God the greeblies

[broken dew]

Though tbf he is in dreadnought now

[broken dew]

Yeah trying to do a bit more complicated and detailed stuff

[untold swallow]

lmao nice

[broken dew]

Unfortunately does make older designs like the chapter master look a smidge bare

Think i'll need to go back for a detail pass at some point

[tranquil ivy]

He can only spare three men, so they spared him three sentences

[vital barn]

I'm enjoying how every single CSM book involves at least one CSM going "unlike all those idiots from the other traitor legions we have kept our shit together"

especially funny when it's the Night Lords saying it

[floral herald]

https://preview.redd.it/who-is-the-most-deluded-chaos-space-marine-v0-a3dfjub2810e1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=6e65b701474de168f23f6a56837ba1f145320cff

It’s so good

[charred bridge]

So called individuals when they say they are not a slave to chaos

[charred bridge]

Huh TIL Kroot have starships

The warsphere

Which I like the design of actually, its very unique even for 40k

[broken dew]

that's pretty cool

[charred bridge]

It's slow but it's one of the few large voidships that can land and take off on planets. It is literally a space faring town as it can bury itself into the ground and function as a town

[tired cairn]

They wanted to stay with more "traditional" tech, but realized you still need starships to go get the genes from other species

Are all the Kroot that way? Or do the ones operating the starships think the ones who go on hunting parties with metal knives and gunpowder weapons are weirdos?

[floral herald]

They’re reverse engineered ork tech

[thin ibex]

Kroot as a faction are broadly similar. A big reason they're green on average is because of the big survival deciding war with orks and subsequent intervention by the tau empire to save them

[broken dew]

those are some strange words you just said

[jaunty dawn]

Its kinda funny cause they still use bullets like individual cartridges but then the tau gave them ones that use pulse technology

Just individually wrapped mini plasma rounds

[fossil violet]

Are there good tutorials for assembling pieces that are like, two arms holding a rifle etc

[sour sequoia]

Scoring the connection surfaces helps a lot

Using less glue so it bonds faster as well

[fossil violet]

scoring with just like a hobby knife?

[charred bridge]

Kroots ate Orks and got the ancestral mekboy knowledge

Lesso reversed engineer like other species but gained mekboy knowledge but actually make something that works without waaagh

[soft willow]

Yup just scratch the surface up a bit with a hobby knife to give the glue some places to work itself into and grab on.

[fossil violet]

gotcha, thanks all!

[charred bridge]

I wonder if a kroot ever ate a Tau ethereal

[broken dew]

still weird but less weird

[charred bridge]

Kroot's eating abilities is real stronk if managed

Imagine if they ate an astartes, Eldar, and ethereal

[jaunty dawn]

Kroot dont eat tau

I mean like idk I say that but its like The Big Kroot Society dont eat tau

[main pagoda]

Well they aren't meant to but it has happened

[jaunty dawn]

But not necessarily all kroot are part of that

Kroot get very strange when they eat psychic stuff. Shapers used to be able to be psykers

Which in my canon thats a thing shapers eventually do. Like when you’re old n ready you start eating some psychic fish

Rather than having to be a psyker all your life and racing to learn control before you get daemon’d

[broken dew]

makes sense

[jaunty dawn]

But in any case seperate from that sometimes a bunch of kroot all eat a bunch of psychic stuff and they go really weird and invisible and eat thoughts

[broken dew]

sounds bad

[charred bridge]

Kroot have it good with Tau

[jaunty dawn]

As a wargame unit I would have them hang around on an equally old krootox just being old together

[charred bridge]

And they have plans to outlive the Tau

[jaunty dawn]

Summoning adverse weather

[charred bridge]

An astartes had a chat with a kroot who wanted to eat him and he mentioned the Kroot have no plans of betraying the Tau but plan to assist until Tau destroy themselves then they'll step up

[jaunty dawn]

I think kroot societally have a very long memory

I do think tau and kroot are really funny cause theyre like

Kroot are kinda like chewbacca honestly

[charred bridge]

Yea the shapers keep track of their history extremely well

I wouldnt be surprised if they acquired genetic memory to know hat worked and what didnt

And to learn from other species mistakes by regressing in tech at key moments for like multigenerational planning

[jaunty dawn]

That would make sense yeah

[fossil violet]

Follow up question: my skitarii ranger with the arquebus dried a little janky, is it worth removing the pieces and re-gluing or am I just gonna have to make my peace with it

[upper canopy]

Kroot ate Eldar once and kicked the asses of a space marine chapter so hard they immediately called for exterminatus

[junior summit]

the fun thing with the warspheres is that they are allegedly capable of landing and then returning to orbit

somehow

[charred bridge]

Yea I did mention that

Superior Kroot Engineering

[junior summit]

oh yeah I missed that mb

[jaunty dawn]

Theres a bit in the tau codex of at least one instance of tau water caste being based in a war sphere for deep insertion in imperial space

You could totally run a tau gue’seva rebels campaign in imperium malediction tbh

Like make them as a custom patron

And you never even meet a tau for like several sessions because your immediate handler is also a human agent

[charred bridge]

My theory is the Kroot are waiting until the equivalent of the 40k end times when every major faction is at its weakest then undo their tech regression and become the dominate faction by consuming the elite of their weakened enemies

[charred bridge]

Im scouring Kroot lore and its funny that Kroot had mastered warp drives before Tau

They just sort of play dumb ig

[junior summit]

iirc its a tau have no psykers thing

[jaunty dawn]

Kroot are just older than tau as well

do kroot make navigators 🤔

[broken dew]

Krootigators

[jaunty dawn]

oh yeah it's a secret but

I think they probably just have shapers who can do it

[charred bridge]

Kroot are super chaos averse, they avoid eating psychic races

I'm guessing they had a bad experience

[paper bluff]

Avoid eating psychic races aside from the orks

[dense idol]

so I'm skimming the age of sogmar spearhead rules in preparation for my match tomorrow

the matchup is cursed shacklehorde (nighthaunt) versus (most likely) blades of the lurid realm (hedonites of slaanesh)

and i'm very much gritting my teeth and tugging on my collar and sending off big cartoonish sweat droplets from my brow

slamming down d3 mortal damage on every enemy unit every turn unless they give you army-wide buffs sounds absolutely nutty

[broken dew]

was trying to figure out a good silver color for the molecular bonding studs on the apothecaries armor but i then remembered i made most all metal detail just be gold on the Dusk Defiant's armor

another epic win for Freyja

[tranquil ivy]

I am still undecided on my chapter as a whole, but one thing i am absolutely set on is making sure my Bladeguard go hard

and they do

dragon skulls and rocket powered hammers because fuck yeah

[broken dew]

cool vibes

[tranquil ivy]

I've recently been overhauling one of my Company Heroes too. Dude's got aura

When he gets bored he likes to stack skulls and see if he can break his stacking record

He's meant to represent this

[broken dew]

Ic ic

[charred bridge]

Well they didn't know better back then, the first contact they had with an alien race was when an ork rok landed on their home world

They went from stone age to industrial age overnight with the mekboy knowledge, even then it wasn't enough to win before Tau happened to find them and help them fend off Orks

Their home world is named Pech, very unsubtle 40k writers having the bird looking alien homeworld called that

[past sphinx]

imagine being like a dog and taking a bite out of dead guy and having 110,000 years of human technological development beamed directly into your central nervous system

[charred bridge]

More than 100k

Orks go back to war in heaven

[past sphinx]

thats why i used humans 😉

[charred bridge]

Millions of years of science (but it all mostly is wrong)

Pretty much the best faction to invade their planet ironically

Necrons can't be ate if a tomb world was under there, Eldar you wouldnt gain ant knowledge so you're fast but still have awful tech, tyrannids you'd just become part of the hive mind, humans & Tau do not much of anything

[charred bridge]

Also, Orks don't have existential crisises in their DNA so really they're in a good place

It's just a thing that happened

Deppression cured

If they ate gulliman however they get ultra deppression

Russ fenrian alcoholism

Fun fact baseline humans are on the do not eat list because of supposeded chaos taint (they can't tell cultists from loyalist humans)

[spice flicker]

Which would fit better for a Brotherhood of Nod inspired army: GSC or cultists focused CSM?

[past sphinx]

gsc

Nod use a great deal of light fast moving often times jury rigged vehicles

cult csm have no access to anything such

[spice flicker]

But at least CSM can get proper tanks but I see your point

[past sphinx]

did nod have any proper tank tanks?

i just remeber a bunch of slightly fucked like modifed farming vehicles

[spice flicker]

They did iirc in tiberium dawn and tiberium war at least. More lightly armored and mobility focused though.

[junior summit]

cultist CSM does do high low mix with the black hand so I think some of it depends on what you want to do

[spice flicker]

Was mostly thinking this up for an upcoming crusade. For CSM I was considering focusing on cultists for infantry, decimators to emulate avatar walkers, predators for tanks, raptors for shadow teams, and maybe a lord of skulls or knight tyrant for the redeemer.

GSC can spam more flamers which can do black hand a but easier and can focus more on the light mobile vehicles side of Nod. Their infantry are more mutated but cult ambush does reflect nod guerrilla tactics more.

[past sphinx]

do renegade guardsmen

use the chaos guard box for guardsmen and convert up some tanks

[spice flicker]

Can't do renegade guard unfortunately

Hellhounds would fit in for nod though.

[desert jay]

Decimators?

[spice flicker]

Its a legend unit

[desert jay]

Oh a legends unit, gotcha

[spice flicker]

Love them and hate they got legend'd

[desert jay]

Ah and about Redemptor sized

[spice flicker]

At least with gsc I can so brood brothers I guess.

Would you say space marines or tau do GDI better?

[vital barn]

this is a proto-custodian but it is making me want to make more Myrmidon techpriests

throw a robe and an Admech head on there and it'd be dead on

I suppose Myrms are basically Mechanicum custodes

slower, worse in melee but shootier and a lot more eclectic

[still warren]

https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/s/qVWMleykdX credit where credit is due

[pastel rampart]

Printed out some more parts and slapped a bit of plasticard on the vindicator.

[past sphinx]

Slime by the time you are done its not even going to be an oldschool rhino creature

you'll have completely replaced the exterior going at this rate!

[charred bridge]

Ah yes the counter to psykers, cut off their heads

This kills the Kroot

[past sphinx]

to be fair it you cannot use the brain magic if the brain is no longer getting like blood and stuff

[broken dew]

Decapitation is a fantastic anti-psyker technique

[runic swallow]

Terminal loss of blood pressure is another good method

[broken dew]

The Dusk Defiant like to blow the heads of psykers smoove off then turn them into charcoal

Or just obliterate them with a melta

[pastel rampart]

Oh no I've stopped on replacing anything more, it's managed to cover up all the damage the previous owner inflicted on it.

[charred bridge]

Imperium's finest tactics

[acoustic sierra]

Just a WIP lieutenant

[broken dew]

Very nice

[past sphinx]

that man has a sucking chest wound!

[broken dew]

Tis but a scratch

[acoustic sierra]

I have misplaced his tilt shield but I think im gonna do Bi pride for this dudes heraldry

[broken dew]

Nice

[past sphinx]

polling the room do you prefer A. Raised chapter symbols on the pauldrons or B. flat transfers/freehanded symbols for that painted look

[charred bridge]

Do you think this translate well to the Kroot language or did someone in the imperium just had to make Kroot Roots

[dense sedge]

then you have Ahriman with 'I'm f_ed aren't I"

[mental birch]

You can do the funnieat thing in BFG

Charge it at a planet and autoscore

[verbal ermine]

HE GOT RID OF HIS ARMS

[vital barn]

I know I posted this in the Exalted thread a bit ago but I feel it also applies to most Chaos armies

thought of it while naming the squad leads for my Possessed snipers

[tall depot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/695752206086963240/1439615960087527464/IMG_9873.jpg?ex=691b2a57&is=6919d8d7&hm=f8d84f66eb36369c70dc95f3916327d52732009925ba5196c69b6dd71584fba4&

[untold swallow]

Gonna finish up a mission in the DW west marches server I'm in

Gonna be fun

[past sphinx]

are assassins worth taking these days?

[jaunty dawn]

They should make this for other games

[dense idol]

Primaris Lieutenant Corpse with Master-Broken Power Weapon

[pale narwhal]

They used to have injured marines for 40k

[jaunty dawn]

Oh really

Cool

They used to have a vostroyan desant set

Yesterday I also found abt a valkyrie interior with seated elysians they made

[pastel rampart]

Injured models don't sell as well so GW doesn't usually offer them.

[jaunty dawn]

Though I was confused where their grav chutes were meant to go? Instead the ceiling was full of lasguns even though they also had them in their hands

Tbf they updated their skulls box not that long ago

It has one (1) injured marine

Shit i meant valhallab

N

[upper bluff]

I could see them do a made to order dead marines in the future honestly

They would obviously be expensive but if you're putting that much effort into modeling your minis that you want a dead ultramarine you probably aren't worried about cost

[junior summit]

Ok the krieg umas would be wild

Hard tonal shift but that character design could be pretty sick

[deft crest]

dont give me hope

[valid brook]

I was thinking, they did also offer Vostroyan casualties