Warhammer and Such

[jaunty dawn]

which gw can't pirate their own shit to avoid paying model designers

[sweet solar]

its WAY easier to do custom and conversion jobs with gw parts, let alone if the kit from gw are made to have a ton of options

you cannot easily do that with 3d printing and buying premade 3d models to print, unless you learn some 3d modelling

[bright dove]

And doesn't seem very inclined to underpay their employees based on what I've heard.

[sweet solar]

but gw has also been, doing less customisable stuff for ages

[rocky shale]

And IMO a lot of the GW designs are just leagues better than your average proxy

[jaunty dawn]

and as has been mentioned, point of service 3d printing would not be economical for gw's business model and you can tell cause if it was they'd be doing it

[sweet solar]

not yet, and not for the current buisness models yeah

it would be something they would have to change to or start doing in a more limited scope and build from there

i do wonder if it will end up like marvel movies vs marvel comics, with gw media vs gw tabletop

[jaunty dawn]

and like it's all well and good to be like oh well when I put my £20 a kilo resin in it uses 30p to make a model but like in plastic costs that's like orders of magnitude more expensive than the raw material costs of injection casting

[sweet solar]

and thats the profit margin gw is set to run on now

but if their models get more expensive and 3d printed models stay similar in price to now, thats the competition

its not like they are competing against an alternate gw thats based on 3d printing now

they arent even really competing on the big games yet, as so much of it is about the community

[main pagoda]

I think the big thing is the convenience of GW compared to 3d printing

[sweet solar]

but for smaller games and older games that get less support, or not-as-supported factions of the bigger games, they have to at least offer something that 3d printing cant

and have to be able to build on that over time

[thin ibex]

we're kind of discussing like 10 years out. Now it could be that they maintain a quality advantage by improving their own processes and maintaining better sculpts for the next decade. The commentary is mostly that printing tech is continuing to improve and become more accessible, and the barrier of acceptability to a consumer in terms of quality could easily be bridged by accessibility and/or cost within that time scale

3d printing historically simpyl wont be 3d printing in the next decade

but then again, their plastic injection molding may also be leagues better in a decade

and they generally have really good sculpts

[bright dove]

I think predicting who can easily have a printer in ten years is a tad uncertain for a variety of factors.

[jaunty dawn]

if 3d printing ever becomes economical at gw scale they will have access to that technology years before anyone else

[bright dove]

Also that, yeah.

[jaunty dawn]

(anyone else meaning consumers ofc)

[sweet solar]

its less about gw having to adopt it at scale

its more about gw having to compete in price with someone not having to print at scale

like unless gw changes their model so they dont have to compete on per-model-profit based on scale or works out how to maintain their profit at scale while making the unit cost cheaper for consumers

people will be priced out if the economy does not radically change

[bright dove]

I don't think GW has to care about those folks. Because if they're already dedicated enough to not buying their minis that they spend money to get a 3d printer, even as it becomes easier to do so

They probably weren't going to buy the minis anyways.

[sweet solar]

i dont follow

like if someone can afford 3d printed models printed by someone else

but cant afford a full army of official models

and the 3d printed models are close enough that once painted you cant tell unless you cut one open

[soft willow]

Yeah the market isn't owning a 3d printer, it's buying 3d printed models from wherever.

[sweet solar]

how does gw maintain profitability on specifically smaller scale games that dont have the mass-adoption-community-experiene like 40k or aos

[jaunty dawn]

recasting has been a thing this whole time

[soft willow]

Though tbf, it's just a new version of recasting yeah.

Penny and I thinking the same thing 😂

[bright dove]

Yeah.

Like, the people who are going to find out a guy with a 3d printer that they can buy from is probably already not in the market to buy minis from GW.

[soft willow]

It's arguably more prevelant or accessible, but I'm not sure it's a new problem.

[bright dove]

For whatever reason they might have.

So if they already weren't going to buy from you

Why should you care?

[tired cairn]

GW has a decent moat in terms of IP. People like GW stuff for the IP

I'm kind of disappointed by a lot of 3D printed models because they don't take advantage of 3D printing: each print can be different

[sweet solar]

but if prices increase at a faster rate for gw and not for recasters/remodellers/printers of the same ip, wont that necesserily continously shrink the market, until we end up with something like marvel movies vs marvel comics, with gw media/movies/games vs gw tabletop games, shrinking the overall tabletop market slowly over time

[tired cairn]

I think it's mostly just that hero designer thing that pulls it off?

[sweet solar]

ive seen a few, but they require some basic knowledge of 3d modelling at least, which is a high bar

[bright dove]

Like, for as popular as Warhammer as a whole has become.

We're still a niche hobby.

[sweet solar]

similar to comics honestly, a monthly pull list can easily be equivilent to a gw model kit every month

[tired cairn]

I feel like for terrain in particular, something that generates buildings with different battle damage is a conceivably reasonable thing to exist

[bright dove]

Reasonable, sure. Easy? Nooooo.

[sweet solar]

lol

yeah

unless you want them to look more like lego

[tired cairn]

It's annoying because you'd have to make a program for it

[sweet solar]

which would be fine with me, when i played regularly most of my terain was books with blankets over it

[bright dove]

See, you're narrowing the Nerd Field of Interest overlap.

[floral herald]

I think there’s actually a lot less competition between GW and printers

Most of the people I know who use them still buy GW plastic they’re just also buying 3rd party upgrade kits

[tired cairn]

Do we know how much money GW makes from their models vs everything else?

[sweet solar]

yeah, currently the only real compettition is for non mainline games that dont get much support and might not be reliably restocked

[bright dove]

It has to be someone who A). Likes GW Games, B). Can 3d model, and C). Can Program. While having all of this, they have to have the patience to finish the project too.

[floral herald]

It’s mostly models

[sweet solar]

as far as I know we only have the overall profit margin and the breakdown for specifically model sales for online gw store vs brick and morter warhammer stores vs 3rd party stockists

[tired cairn]

Uh, well I mean "a company could make this". And I'm a bit surprised one hasn't I guess

But also you don't need them to like GW games specifically

[rocky shale]

Sculpting a ton of different models is very labor intensive

[rocky shale]

I've seen terrain model generators that exist

There's at least one out there for very basic ruins terrain in different styles

[sweet solar]

but yeah currently the games and shows and books are more advertising for the models than anything else

[floral herald]

Model revenue is somewhere around 200 million and licensing is ~30 million but that was with the space marine 2 bump

[tired cairn]

Huh, smaller amount for licensing than I expected tbh

[floral herald]

Yeah same

[sweet solar]

thats also specifically the licensing breakfown, not the non-model in house media creation iirc

[bright dove]

Yeah, seeing the numbers really does remind me how niche the hobby is.

[rocky shale]

They don't make a ton of media in house unless I'm forgetting something

[tired cairn]

The idea would be to have base models and then procedural generate (simple) battle damage. So the crumbling top of a piece wouldn't look the same as a different top of a piece. Or the bullet marks would be in slightly different places or w/e

[jaunty dawn]

yeah that can be done

[rocky shale]

That's doable for like flat terrain faces but gets massively harder for complex sculpts

At least to not make it look like crap

[tired cairn]

Sure

It feels like the main strength of 3d printing vs injection molding. But I guess it's not actually worth the effort

[bright dove]

As I said earlier. Reasonable, not Easy.

[rocky shale]

It's doable but the software to get it to make models that actually look good would need to be quite complex

[bright dove]

And the niche of people who would care about that level of customization for terrain is

[sweet solar]

marvel is a comparison only in the new media vs traditional product split
in terms of actual value warhammer is like, comparable to fishing, but only 1/4 the size of bicycling

[floral herald]

Terrain is also in a sort of funky place where the primary competition isn’t mold vs 3d printing it’s someone with a hobby knife and foam core

[tired cairn]

Or maybe the real advantage of 3d printing is that a single modeler can sell stuff without needing a bunch of capital invested in model making kit

[bright dove]

Probably significantly overlapping with the circle of people who can just make their own for way, way cheaper.

[sweet solar]

yeah it removes the profit margin

it becomes end used and creator

no overhead on stores, packaging, advertising
and parisitic in ip quite often so limited development costs other than the artists training and materials

[tired cairn]

What "it" is removing the profit margin?

[sweet solar]

3d printing

gw doesnt 3d print because its not profitable at large scale

[tired cairn]

Middle-man seems more accurate?

[rocky shale]

Yeah it's really easy to just add your own random battle damage

[tired cairn]

Or maybe you are making an unrelated point?

[sweet solar]

ill rephrase

3d printing doesnt have to pay for any of the surrounding value adds or have as large a profit margin as a company like gw needs

[tired cairn]

Yeah but I'm lazy. But also it can be hard to add battle damage to a 3d print because of how infill works

[sweet solar]

not having brick and mortar stores or paying for its own media

its like the cost of printing a piece of fanart, vs buying an official print in a comic book store

[tired cairn]

Oh sure. You can just make a model and sell it. Which is great for a single artist

(and a lot of 3d print models are made by either single artists or very small studios aiui)

[sweet solar]

by nature of being a company, gw cant survive on as low a profit margin
if they sold 3d printed models, even if they factored in savings on shipping, handling etc, the cost of materials and required profit margins would make a gw 3d printed model more expensive than a regular molded gw model

[bright dove]

And like, 3d Printing is going to have to compete on terrain with the guys who go "Hey, I'll make corrugated iron looking stuff by stripping cardboard boxes and painting that"

[rocky shale]

More wall layers

[tired cairn]

Oh, we're discussing selling files though? But yeah, 3d printing is expensive for high volume stuff

[sweet solar]

while at the same time competing on effort and quality with 3d injection molded 3rd party terrain

[tired cairn]

It's best for one-offs

[tired cairn]

That will make the print take a lot longer, but yeah

[sweet solar]

the cheapest good looking terrain ive seen is actually lasercut wood

you can get some really good value so long as its snap-fit and boxy

smells amazing too

[tired cairn]

I'm probably just in a particular place of laziness vs cost. I think it also just irks me at like, a conceptual level. "What do you mean you aren't taking advantage of one of the hypothetical advantages of 3D printing" lol

[floral herald]

I think the main competitor for something like that is really just DIY stuff

[rocky shale]

Like I said, there is at least one software package for generating terrain, but it's very limited

[tired cairn]

Though, I take advantage of it a bit by shoving building blocks together in a 3d program instead of gluing them together. It's just annoying that they have a limited number of battle damaged options (for obvious reasons)

[floral herald]

Terrain is the easiest stuff to DIY particularly if you want it custom

[rocky shale]

It's Aalso not free software

[tired cairn]

What is it, out of curiosity?

(I wouldn't expect it to be free)

[rocky shale]

I forget the name

[sweet solar]

as a completly seperate track you know what gw could totally compete on a huge pre-existing market for expensive small models?
party-scale-ttrpgs like dnd

[rocky shale]

But it's much harder than you think you wrote software that edits 3d data and makes the output look good

[bright dove]

Terrain hobbyists are actually slightly more common because it overlaps with a lot of hobbies

Hello model train enthusiasts

[rocky shale]

Warhammer underworlds models are already great for this

[sweet solar]

yeah

all they would need to do is alter the aesthetics a tiny bit and alter the like, bundles of sale

like I bought some 3rd party dnd models last year

[tepid stratus]

I mean, this is basically how the company started

[sweet solar]

and they are more expensive per model than gw for worse quality

and the wotc models are even more expensive

and the market for dnd is like, insane huge

[sweet solar]

i still have some of them lol

had a chainmail spearguy wearing a sheep skull as my chaos exalted champion for more than a decade

[bright dove]

I do love one of the earnest pieces of advice in the How to build Wargaming Terrain book GW put out was "Aquarium plants make good alien terrain and already come with their own bases."

[tepid stratus]

Aquarium and terrarium decor is the secret hack to gaming tables

[bright dove]

So good at setting things up, yeah

[sweet solar]

toothpick cactuses never improved upon 😌

[bright dove]

Terrain hobbyists are really underrated

[pine matrix]

A bit of basing can go a long way, doing stuff with crackle paint to do a lava base blew my mind

[bright dove]

Indeed

And like, once you know what you're doing, it's surprising how cheap you can be

[pastel rampart]

Foamboard and coffee stirrer sticks go a long way.

[jaunty dawn]

bark is very good rock

especially for like

the kind of rock it looks like

[sweet solar]

3d formed solid cardboard box-spacers

[jaunty dawn]

sedimentary

[sweet solar]

coat of something to seal it, spray paint, add some windows and doors. perfection

[bright dove]

A small but neat looking actual rock

[sweet solar]

these wine box ones are pefect "hab blocks" and a buncha alchohol stores just throw them away in the hundreds on the reg

make this rusty metal colour and its perfect sector mechanicus

[pine matrix]

Damn that is good

[sweet solar]

some of the big ones make perfect instant trench networks if you sink them into foamcore hills too

or as the inside of hive buildings

moulded pulp packaging

you can also just buy it wholesale online lol

[bright dove]

Or you could buy the wine

[sweet solar]

true lol

cosmetics boxed sets are a great and underutilized source for them

and electronics

[quaint compass]

https://d1ax460061ulao.cloudfront.net/1000x1000/7/6/760e7dd193dbe540114fc94dbee423d5.jpg
Plastic packaging for ground beef/pork works real well for bunkers or forts. They have inbuilt struts and are tall enough to conceal infantry

[pastel rampart]

You just gotta make sure to clean the shit out of them.

[quaint compass]

YES

[pastel rampart]

Also probably put something underneath to give it more support because the plastic is a bit flimsy and could cave in.

[quaint compass]

Yes've, though I was also considering making the bunker open-aired (bombed open or something you can enter)

There is so much room for activity!

[runic swallow]

Oh, useful lil tutorial: https://youtu.be/ujOPPROpbOs

[pastel rampart]

A very good tip for making buildings out of foamboard: you can cut the foamboard about halfway through and that can let you bend it for walls. Cuts down on having to glue separate wall sections, though note there will be an open space at those corners.

I've done it for several ruined medieval buildings and you can just glue some balsa wood and coffee stirrer sticks to give a timbered look.

[thin ibex]

why didn't we get cowboy marines

we got roman marines, vampire marines, viking werewolf marines, knight marines, mongolian marines

im not sure what the imp fists are aside from fortress marines

machine marines for ih

[floral herald]

Imp fists are quasi-germanic

With the names and face scarring and such

[pastel rampart]

And the tramp stamps.

[floral herald]

Fundamentally I think it is because games workshop is British

[thin ibex]

i gues cowboys were never like an imperial army

whereas all the other examples were imperial/conqueror armies

well no

im wrong

vikings were raiders

vampires arent even an army

[tired cairn]

I guess the Imperial Guard get the British coded units

[upper canopy]

also like

USA cavalry did in fact imperially conquer north america

[thin ibex]

context, I adhd'd my way into thinking about primaris marines singing coutnry songs about loving their truck (impulsor)

[upper canopy]

I played a Cowboy Only War game

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/508703630862581760/1367587642912542832/Six_Shooters.png?ex=68813bbe&is=687fea3e&hm=bd3fde7c167c72001dcacdeaad9584e12be5412eadba47fe7ae46043ef20a5d0&

it was a fun time

horses are surprisingly good

[floral herald]

Yeah but they’re also Italian themed

[floral herald]

Ah, iron hands

[thin ibex]

i wanna try playing party bus marines... maybe the salamanders detach

and just cart around in a boat load of impulsors

[floral herald]

Chaos space marines get a jump out detachment which is real good

[paper bluff]

A wild west world would be the Trigun planet

[quaint compass]

They fucking STEP you

[floral herald]

I think my hot take is that except for aesthetically the cowboy space marines are White Scars

[thin ibex]

inclusive white scars, mongolian/cowboy/native american/arabyan marines

just every big horse culture/subculture from around the world

[upper canopy]

I think aesthetically is the problem

[thin ibex]

i suppose itd be hard to represent cowbow mayines without crossing into goofy territory with the 40k visual aesthetic

space marine poncho

master crafted stetson?

lever action bolter

power spurs

chapter master arthur morgan

[upper canopy]

Morganus

I got a plan.......

[runic swallow]

Many cultures independently come up with things that are Cowboy-coded

Or adopt cowboy stuff

Which I think is cool

[charred bridge]

Love my horse archers

[rocky shale]

Cowboy exodites

[charred bridge]

The first White Scar to upgrade to a vehicle over a horse must have been thrilled

You mean this thing can go faster than a horse, never gets scared, and I can push it as much as it has fuel?

Whoever fixes and maintains White Scar's jetbikes must be insane

[soft willow]

I mean it helps that the Tech-priests are in a literal cult about it.

They fix the machines every time because to not do so would be blasphemy.

But I also imagine they throw quite the angry tirade at the White Scar rider every time.

[tired cairn]

My understanding is that the horse poop was a really big problem for cities

Oh, this is not technical lmao

[jaunty dawn]

The white scar stuff just made me think of this post and then it took…not that long to find but still longer than it feels it should

[thin ibex]

im just trying to imagine horses genetically engineered to carry a space marine in full power armor

[soft willow]

Probably some kind of augmeticlly enhanced horses.

[tired cairn]

Put the horse in power armor

[soft willow]

https://tenor.com/view/space-marine-warhammer-40k-leandros-codex-astartes-does-not-support-this-action-gif-3308169791359741791

Gulliman wrote that section after having to clear out the stables at the family estate.

[tired cairn]

This is why Chaos could win. But they are likely to go overboard and put a barely stable demon in the horse

[soft willow]

Chaos has plenty of weird animal-ish things to ride, but none of them are horses.

[tired cairn]

Maybe horses are loyal only to the emperor

[charred bridge]

To be fair if White Scars could make their jetbikes bite and shit they would cause cool and funny respectively

[charred bridge]

The barely stable demon actually makes the horse more sane

[bright dove]

Horses aren't spikey enough.

That's it, that's why Chaos uses other things.

[glad spear]

Oil slick

[charred bridge]

There we go

[tired cairn]

I like this kitbash idea: https://youtube.com/shorts/rYi2HIp0D9k?si=3t1HGrif50s9a8QP

[sour sequoia]

Converting to the genestealer cult as the only faction capable of handling Big Irons

[thin ibex]

Votan!

They have big irons

Bolt revolvers

[soft willow]

I feel like I saw a bunch of cowboy hat converted Yeagers recently but I don't recall where.

[charred bridge]

Omg they were lexmates

[floral herald]

Kill team balance dataslate is out!

As per usual it’s in a horrible un-summarized format!

It’s a big one though

Sanctifier zerg rush nerfed

AoD has some nerfs

Wow big buff for breachers

+1 wounds team wide

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/siyw6k39/kill-team-quarterly-update-astartes-adjusted-and-other-big-changes/

This is good

[brittle salmon]

lets go breacher boyz

are Aquilons any good these days

[floral herald]

Yes

No changes this time around but their comp stats make them solidly “good but not top” tier

But all the top tiers are eating nerfs

[brittle salmon]

:)

[floral herald]

Good nerf

That one was cranked and making it something you gotta use more carefully is good

Oh man this kinda sucks

Kasrkin are cycling out of classified and I guess that means no more erratas for them?

They weren’t in a great state when it happened either…

Ah well it’s declassified so you can just home patch them if needed

[jaunty dawn]

They also clarified that the new kill team guys from heroes arent gonna be tournament legal

So no AoD inflation

[floral herald]

Good

[tired cairn]

Hmm, I thought they said there would be balance passes but maybe that means broad scale ones (or nerfs) only

[floral herald]

I’m just surprised kasrkin got nothing

Cause they’re in the doldrums

Their saving grace is being a really good choice for seconding with Inquisition haha

[tired cairn]

I get the impression that the older teams are generally more straightforward than the newer teams. So I kind of wonder what GW is going to do from a new player perspective once the older teams cycle out

(particularly angels is death, ha)

[floral herald]

It depends some of the newer teams are pretty simple

But also a lot of them are more generic or on theme

Like it’ll be a bummer if Kommandoz aren’t tournament legal

[deft crest]

mMMM

[deft crest]

ehh?? I thought i had more time with them

Fuck dude that sucks

[floral herald]

Oh no they’re not cycling out yet

They just didn’t get changes

Maybe GW is thinking they’re just suffering from bad MUs into meta defining teams?

[deft crest]

Ah

I don't disagree

Elite hunting team thats quarry are fucking already hard as hell to kill

Still reading the patch tho

Necrons got lightly scraped, No interstial command on counteracts.

I suppose thats fair

I kinda thought you already lost your preciance points between rounds

[tired cairn]

Imperial Navy Breachers and Hunter Clade have both been strengthened, with the latter now able to bring an additional Sicarian or Gunner operative, and the former receiving an additional wound to increase their durability on the battlefield.

The year is 2026. Hunter Clade is now entirely Sicarians and Gunners

[deft crest]

https://tenor.com/view/zelda-reaction-good-gif-13088713

[deft crest]

Always has been if you ask me.

[tired cairn]

Also, what a weird way to order the former and latter sentences lol

It's a bit silly they even keep "Warrior" options in some of the kill teams

[deft crest]

I mean i understand it conceptually but yeah

You will NEVER use a warrior for the nids for example

Or SHOULD never

[floral herald]

Yeah the ravener warrior exists solely for people who bought the KT for bighammer and built no specialists for some reason

[tired cairn]

I just built them as the special guys and call them the regular warriors in bighammer

[humble plover]

My poor Hearthkyn 😭 😭 😭

I don't know what that was targeted at, but it basically just kills one of hearthkyn's primary gimmicks

The whole draw of the team was being able to get guaranteed crits with their accurate guns and grudge tokens

[floral herald]

It’s targeted at a bunch of teams

[potent jewel]

Arguably the ions were the better choice
And now they just are the better choice, fragging hell

[crisp lance]

love LordCarmi's stuff

[humble plover]

yup, and they are always the less interesting option imo

maybe I'm just not tuned into whats going on with teams outside my very small local meta, but this change feels entirely unnecessary to me

[crisp lance]

Khrave units - part 1```

what is a Khrave ?

oh thier psychic hivemind bat dudes

[desert jay]

Angels of Death might wind up either eternal or like... "yeah we made a new SM team, same-ish as the old SM team"

[tired cairn]

iirc, they were on the list of things going away the second time. So probably the latter

[desert jay]

Oh they're already on a rotation list? Huh

[pulsar cairn]

Wouldnt it make sense for thousand sons have dreadnoughts? Or at least hellbrutes that dont need a real pilot?

[main pagoda]

well both of those require a living pilot

[pulsar cairn]

So does power armor tho

But rubrics!

[main pagoda]

well yes but actually no

[pulsar cairn]

I thought it would make sense for rubric dreadnoughts to exist

[main pagoda]

rubrics are basically automata you cant really do that with dreads

[junior robin]

they do have hellbrutes but they use marines from other legions that they trick into thinking they will get arcane knowledge

[pulsar cairn]

Hm i cant see why it wouldnt be possible since they are using magic anyway

[pulsar cairn]

Evil

[main pagoda]

dreads are more complicated and well when your legion is running out of alive marines you do want to keep em around

[junior robin]

they should just slap some demons in them, as a treat

[jaunty dawn]

https://images.app.goo.gl/sd6J3J147mkZmg5H6

Bleh

There

[pulsar cairn]

Blue

[junior robin]

peak

[main pagoda]

afaik there are no rubric dreads

[rare turtle]

I made this

[upper bluff]

Looks rad

[pulsar cairn]

I'll call him Mr.tentacles

[pulsar cairn]

What kind of settings aside from Rogue trader ship could i justify a bunch of different characters from different factions working together for wrath and glory?

[main pagoda]

inquisition kill team?

[junior robin]

Heretek coven

[pulsar cairn]

Oh thats a good one

[pulsar cairn]

what are they?

[junior robin]

basically tech priests that dont follow the rules

[pulsar cairn]

Oooh

Like inventing stuff and messing with xenos tech?

[junior robin]

yes

[pulsar cairn]

That's neat

[junior robin]

so might work if you need more shady factions working together

[pulsar cairn]

True

[finite compass]

Infractionist Cell (basically Grimdark Organized Crime like the Kasaballica)

But yeah, Inquisition is the classic one

[upper canopy]

Any area under active invasion

[finite compass]

Honestly. I've always kind of wanted to run something Necromunda-based. Like less the 'big picture' sort of 40k thing, and more you're basically hired guns and hive scum trying to make the almighty guilder credit.

[paper bluff]

Well, to be a physical thousand sun toy have to be a psyker

And usually that comes with a bit of biomancy

And if you got psychic biomancy you're usually using that to fixe grievous wounds

[finite compass]

Other dumb idea

Iron Warriors 'counts as daemon prince'

Or maybe a Forgefiend

Where the idea is 'what if we gave the obliterator virus to a Dreadnought'

[rocky shale]

Wouldnt that just be a helbrute?

[sour sequoia]

28 models painted in one day for the helena GT

🫠

Two trucks twenty metamorphs 5 atalan jackals and a benefictus

[paper bluff]

The new bleedland all brass are assembled

[mental birch]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TSdFB6nMyUFl54OhwagHpFoD1KHi4RirivCKN1yLlm0/edit?tab=t.40mg67alb100

rough draft of map crusade rules

what do folks think?

[runic swallow]

Seems reasonable, from the perspective of someone not up to date on campaign rules. However, I feel it’s missing some usual map campaign stuff, I’d include something relating to taking strategic points (ie cities, resource locations, crossroads, etc) to have a reason for people moving around the map other than just trying to crash into each other

Potentially with having to leave behind some guys to actually hold a place

[mental birch]

yeah was thinking tying the Resource POints generation to holding cities haha

[upper canopy]

https://bsky.app/profile/martonkapoli.bsky.social/post/3lupyxoke322u

+++𝕸𝖆𝖗𝖙𝖔𝖓 𝕶𝖆𝖕𝖔𝖑𝖎+++ (@martonkapoli.bsky.social)

+++ADEPTUS ASTARTES+++
The Emperors beautiful angels.
-
[Warhammer 40k spacemarines fanart]
-
-
#warhammer40k #WarhammerCommunity #warhammerfanart #WarhammerArt #spacemarines #SpaceMarine2 #ultramarines #ultramarine

Bluesky · Jul 24, 2025, 4:58 PM

[mental birch]

or the purpose for moving being objectives given to each player

[runic swallow]

Yeah that’s the usual way it’s works in these

[mental birch]

if that makes sense

[runic swallow]

Yeah

[upper canopy]

Love this fucked up ultramarine

[mental birch]

and like

[runic swallow]

I’d say to remember that stuff like resource locations or crossroads are also important militarily if you want some diversity of objectives and also ability to make different point amounts per objective type

[mental birch]

what do you think of the airplane buff?

ahhaha

I made

[runic swallow]

Oh I don’t really know about how this interacts with the other campaign systems, so I can’t really help you there

[mental birch]

I mean it's more an inherent buff to airplanes

in 40k

[runic swallow]

Oh you mean bringing them in from outside?

[mental birch]

because like they're currently overcosted but in this system airplanes can functioanlly be like

yeah

[runic swallow]

Yeah that’s neat

[floral herald]

I love art like this

[pine matrix]

Fuck yeah

[pulsar cairn]

i feel like this guy looks cute, look at his lil arms

[main pagoda]

yeah he looks cute

hes frog genocide man though

the words lost in the sauce describe mazdamundi quite well

[pulsar cairn]

fucking warhammer

[thin ibex]

Isn't he single handedly responsible for the breaking of the Dwarven empire and the end of the war of the beard? All without knowing it?

Because the tectonic plates were a little off

[runic swallow]

Tbh I prefer Kroak, the frog that died but then said “nah I’m built different” and just kept going

[main pagoda]

"Woe to the warm-bloods who would despoil our realm, for their craving for trinkets and baubles drives them deeper into lands forbidden to them. Cast them out, show them no pity, feed their carcasses to the beasts of the jungle and leave their bones to bleach upon the golden shores of our land. Let them see that it is folly to intrude upon the domains of the Lizardmen."

—Translation of the proclamation of Lord Mazdamundi, from the chronicle of Hexoatl

[main pagoda]

the time of woes was caused by skaven aiui

[thin ibex]

Lexicanum has a note about it being Lord Quex despite it being commonly attributed to Mazdamundi

But in either event, slann mage priest adjusted the tectonic plates according to the great plan which shattered the Dwarven empire incidentally

[main pagoda]

im just a frog

[pine matrix]

I wonder if there'd be a way to do a Horus Heresy campaign where you don't know who some of the Traitors until a Dropsite Massacre mission

Hidden role Warhammer

[main pagoda]

I feel you could have everyone make their list the roll a die

[hard whale]

I like that exactly half the chapters rebelled. I'd do it by dealing out 18 playing cards. Odd numbers are traitors, if you get the ace it's your Heresy instead of Horus's

[main pagoda]

I do think it depends on your legion

[runic swallow]

Also there was a loyalist/traitor split in most

[main pagoda]

so you'd have to throw that into the mix but yeah cards or die

[runic swallow]

So you wouldn’t even have to change up the legions who flip

[pine matrix]

You could always just flip the traitor/loyalist keywords if you'd get your options limited, or ignore them entirely

[main pagoda]

i think youd need to know prior to making list in that case

[pine matrix]

Ye

[upper canopy]

Oh this is real

I saw it and thought it was a joke

[hard whale]

same

[pine matrix]

I like the idea of someone getting to have it be their legion's heresy, though that could lead to some funny stuff, like Angron or Pert leading. Most antisocial Primarchs somehow won people to their side

[pine matrix]

After rebranding all their shops and sites to just be "Warhammer" I can't say I'm totally surprised, but damn that new logo sucks

[dense idol]

i have a developing theory that too much time spent in business and finances regresses your consciousness to a pre-sapient state

"oooooh no it's too scary to touch there's too many spikes and reds and yellows!!!" are you an insectovorous swallow or nightingale perhaps

[jaunty dawn]

it's pretty much cause all they use the company name for now is selling stock

[floral herald]

It kinda makes sense in that context

Don’t wanna be the Party Cannon of stock trades I guess

[uneven ember]

Why not though
Party Cannon is fucking genius

[tired cairn]

Maybe their finance guys were being bullied

(they probably just hired the same branding consultants as everyone else lol)

[jaunty dawn]

Yeah

Brandslop

[pastel rampart]

It's just the Futura font but you know someone got paid big bucks to pull up MS Word and go "eh? Eeeeeh? How about it guys"

[upper bluff]

https://bsky.app/profile/fenrisgames.com/post/3lurt53ypm22e

ian.fenrisgames (@fenrisgames.com)

-# ↩ Stephen Graves (@stephengraves.co.uk)
it's their original font, pretty much. they should bring the mouse back

Likes

152

Bluesky · Jul 25, 2025, 10:19 AM

This made me laugh

[pastel rampart]

https://bsky.app/profile/shoehead.itch.io/post/3lushowtzt22k

🜏 Machine Saint 🜏 (@shoehead.itch.io)

Did some digging and thats the logo they seem to be using for their recruitment portal online and has been like that all year. Can been seen in the wild here jobs.games-workshop.com

Not 100% sure it's an actual rebrand or just like... the office logo or not

-# A Career Like No Other - Games Workshop Jobs
A Career like no other Build your future at the greatest miniatures company on the planet Find Your Job Browse Locations

Bluesky · Jul 25, 2025, 4:27 PM

[finite compass]

Minimalism and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[thin ibex]

thus the waxing and waning of minimalism and maximalism turns again

[charred bridge]

GW must have paid the graphic designer in a used games workshop gift card cause why

Its just plain text

Not even branded colors

[west zealot]

Amazing, catestrophic self own

[pulsar cairn]

would an apothecary know how to treat a normal human if needed? like lets say they actually need a regular human alive

i think i asked this before but i dont really remember what people said

[runic swallow]

I think they’d probably be able to

[brittle salmon]

this actually came up in a game @floral herald ran where I was playing an Apothecary

in Wrath and Glory, Astartes are treated as a seperate species from regular humans and treating wounds cross-species has -2 dice penalty iirc

But you can do it

[floral herald]

Deathwatch has broadly similar rules

Though IIRC in it apothecaries have the skills for it but not the tools

Since the narthecium is not built for humans

[brittle salmon]

It really isn't lol

[pulsar cairn]

that's interesting

Also astartes hands probably means one cant use tools made for human use

[floral herald]

That's not a huge problem without power armor (not like space marines don't wear that a lot tho)

[thin ibex]

Iirc the main thing about sm apothecary is they know how to treat a normal human but also they are absolutely brutal

So the wounded human has to also survive treatment

[pulsar cairn]

oh dear

[floral herald]

Yeah there's a lot of shortcuts you learn to take when your patients are immune to shock, can't bleed out, and call you a pussy if your treatment isn't painful and fast enough

(proverbially anyway)

[runic swallow]

A space marine would make one hell of an ER trauma doc tho if they’d just study human anatomy a bit more

“Dr. Space Marine, when did you last go off shift?”
“Oh, three days ago or so”
Said while single-handedly restraining patient

[west zealot]

It's built for disembling them

And anything else that gets between an Apothecary and his precious geenseed.

[floral herald]

It is also a space marine grade medkit but "space marine grade" means a lot of assumptions

[west zealot]

"Useable by Orks, Space Marines and Ogryns" (Without breaking)

[charred bridge]

Usable by Orks (as a bludgeoning weapon)

[upper bluff]

I feel like the biggest barrier for a space marine surgeon operating on a human would be the tools. Dude would need specialized everything for his giant hands

[west zealot]

While the dark imperium novels are not very good, Guilliman venting about the fact he can't pick up a piece of paper of the floor with the armor of Fate is very funny

[west zealot]

I appreciate that you've just elevated ogryns over orcs on the smarts scale

[charred bridge]

Ogyrns smart, they know best life is to be efficient at what you need to know.

Carry big stick

And loud shoota stick

[sour sequoia]

State GT tomorrow time to see how well I can handle 5 rounds of genestealer cults on a chess clock 😅

[pulsar cairn]

Orks may not be comic relief but they surely can pull off comic relief sometimes (hair squig)

[pulsar cairn]

also wow, that's fucking sad

the Lion may be old but i rather be old than be incapable of using my hands while not in combat

[main pagoda]

can gulliman take the armour off?

might not be able to pick up paper but atleast your not dead i suppose

[west zealot]

He can, and he's making a joke of it when it happens

‘I have the manual dexterity of a Legio Cybernetica battle automaton!’ Guilliman said. ‘Created by the Lord of All Mankind, master of the greatest armies in the Imperium, and I cannot pick up a plastek flimsy.’ He glared at the offending articles. ‘My greatest enemy.’

There was a thoughtful quiet.

‘You are joking, my lord?’ said Sicarius.

Guilliman looked at Sicarius. He had to turn all the way around to do so. The pauldrons, ornamental wings and large halo mounted on his back made it impossible for him to see over his shoulder. At least he had stopped knocking into things. There was that.

‘By the Throne, why am I expected to be serious at all times? Yes, Captain Sicarius, I am making light of my predicament. During the worst of the Great Crusade, I was known to make the occasional jest. Even after Terra fell. I did not spend my entire previous life writing deep thoughts into little notebooks, but sometimes dared to enjoy myself. I suppose that was not recorded in the hagiographies.’

‘Humour is not something you are renowned for, my lord.’

‘My time in this new age has revealed that to me amply.’

[pulsar cairn]

I thought he would die if he took of the armor

[main pagoda]

after a quick google search BL confirms that

[hard whale]

It's like that bit in Portal 2: "They told me that if I ever did that, I would DIE! Don't know why they gave me all this stuff if they didn't want me using it"

[floral herald]

It used to be he couldn’t take it off at all but now he can take it off briefly iirc

Not a retcon he’s just slowly healing I think?

[jaunty dawn]

We should get stealth gulliman

Like zero suit samus or mobility armour joan of arc

Just gulliman with his butt out n shit

[floral herald]

Cato! I’m trying to infiltrate the vengeful spirit but the clap of my armor of fate keeps alerting the guards!

And there’s like 20 captains there who refuse to get jokes and are discussing how to optimize your movement in the armor of fate for silence

Being guilleman is suffering

[tired cairn]

Zero Suit Guilleman but with a Evagelion style stamina timer

[thin ibex]

I do like how the first thing g man did upon waking is punching out a khorne berserker

[pastel rampart]

I have to imagine there's at least parts of the suit he could take off.

Like...surely he doesn't need the armored gloves on in order to keep the suit working.

[upper canopy]

I feel like him being able to take it off at all is a cop out

Get trapped in eternal suffering blue boy

[thin ibex]

He might, if it needs to be a sealed environment, unless it can segment on demand. I'd imagine outer plating can be removed/ replaced, but I'm under the impression that the core suit can't get taken off

Like there are undoubtedly guns that ablate portions of he armor and those need regular replacing

But homeboy is technically still super poisoned by fulgrim isn't he? Or is that not a thing now that he's died once to Mortarion

[main pagoda]

aiui he still is

[pastel rampart]

https://www.blacklibrary.com/authors/guy-haley/eshort-the-armour-of-fate.html I guess this one tells us if he can or not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/10pwbwy/guillimans_armor_of_fate/ Comments here say he either can take it off and he's fine or can only take it off for a short time before the poison starts to kick in.

[jaunty dawn]

Gulliman should get an orb to sit in like darth vader

[west zealot]

Basically my understanding from armor of Fate (the short story) etc is he's not supposed to, his response was fuck that for a lark, and he's been very carefully working to acilmate himself to existing without it

But also crazy warp soul poisons are something even a primach's physiology needs help why

[runic swallow]

It’s like how people don’t understand what “military grade” means, in space marines case it probably means huge, chunky, and very little care for user comfort

[desert jay]

And probably designed 10 millennia ago

[floral herald]

It also means there’s a lot of shortcuts you can take

Don’t need sterile tools for surgery on space marines for example

Since their enhanced blood and immune system no-diffs normal bacterial infections

[thin ibex]

Military grade also often just means the lowest bidder

[hardy harness]

Military grade is just "Works but barely" half the time, from what I hear

[charred bridge]

Rhubarb Girlyman's skin tight boob armor

[jaunty dawn]

Yeee

[charred bridge]

Basically whats the cheapest thing that wont kill a person in the US

[upper bluff]

It honestly says something about military propaganda that people equate military grade with quality

[charred bridge]

If they can be safely super cheap bad it will be, vehicles and guns are usually reliable

[charred bridge]

Unironically its military surplus ad campaigns

US military has regulations to like sell ammo and literally everything that can that is safe to civilians if its older than like 10 years so its a huge industry they can profit off of cause they have to

[tired cairn]

Eh, I don't think maximum cynicism is correct here. There is the fun fact that sometimes a government will pick a company with an inferior offering in order to make sure there are multiple companies capable of making military equipment sticking around though

[charred bridge]

Its not cynicism its just how they operate, military has stupid expensive expenses so they cut corners where they can

Money you save from say cheap calibrations tools you put towards a very expensive jet or carrier

A base emergency kit with an emergency knife doesnt need to be seal team 6 level stuff it can be a cheap one for short term with idea you can sharpen it if it dulls.

[floral herald]

Military grade started with, and still mostly refers to stuff where there isn't a mass market civilian equivalent, like night vision systems as one example

It gets appropriated by marketers for a bunch of other stuff but that's what it's from

[charred bridge]

Its also not really a protected term

[tired cairn]

It's funny when it refers to the level encryption everyone has been using for a long time though

[floral herald]

Yeah encryption standards are just generally high so that one's kinda funny

[charred bridge]

Banks probably have better csec than most non classified miliary stuff

[floral herald]

That would make sense non classified stuff doesn't warrant much, if any, protection :p

[tired cairn]

Yeah, though not the encryption algorithms (which everyone uses the same level of) even through that's the stuff they brag about lol

Oh whoops. Non-classified military not non-military

Though even the non-classified stuff is probably going through SSL most of the time at this point lol

[floral herald]

A lot of differences between military grade networking equipment and other stuff is mostly how well it handles jamming aiui

Lots of weird frequency skipping stuff there which has no real use unless you're expecting jamming

Admittedly I think a lot of wifi implements similar protocols now because wifi signals are so common

[charred bridge]

Yea a congested busy place like an apartment or mall with tons of signals and tons of metal is basically jamming

[tired cairn]

A sufficiently high level of noise is indistinguishable from jamming?

[floral herald]

Yeah pretty much

Military jamming is just really noisy

[charred bridge]

Difference is jamming expects a directed effort that adapts if they think your signal is getting through

Wifi you can sort of bet its probability and happenstance

Back to 40k it reminds of me when the Tau EMP'd the imperium during a fight and all the titans and tanks basically shutdown and they sent in a ton of kroots

And just murdered everyone in combat as even astartes had to retreat as their power armor were affect and lost some of their servos and neat augments stuff

Which makes me surprised there isnt like, an EMP tyranid just thrown at titans and vehicles

[runic swallow]

It highly depends, the real answer is that military gear is a spectrum, but often does end up in “built to be used and abused by Pvt. Dipshit and keep working”

Not everything is better when it’s military spec, but some stuff kinda is (my surplus poncho, my beloved 😌)

[bright dove]

The Hive Mind can solve those with different specialist engineering.

[runic swallow]

Especially since surplus means you get it wildly cheaper than a new civilian manufacturer equivalent

[rocky shale]

Rule of cool dictates nids just get big bugs

[bright dove]

Or, you know, by just throwing enough bodies into it that it just stops the thing.

[tired cairn]

tbh, I am a bit surprised this worked because I kind of expect a disturbing amount of Imperium tech to use vacuum tubes

Tyranids know some factions (them) only have living tank equivalents and so know their AT options should not care if it is shooting at a monster or a vehicle 😌

[charred bridge]

They're advanced enough to have AI

[tired cairn]

(But really, it annoys me when rules have something that is anti-monster or anti-vehicle only)

[charred bridge]

The realest reason, does it amke a cool fight

[charred bridge]

Unionized, they're only either allowed to shoot at a monster or vehicle

Tyranid labor laws are strict

[tired cairn]

I don't think the 40k universe would necessarily exclude AI being ran on vacuum tubes, ha

[charred bridge]

Well vacuum tubes can be affected by EMPs as well

[tired cairn]

True, it's just a lot harder

[charred bridge]

Just usually harder, but a nuclear explosion above you would knock out vacuum tubes

Tau probably had something better than a nuke in high orbit

[tired cairn]

Future 40k book writer: What's a big number of vacuum tubes for a super advanced AI? A thousand?

[charred bridge]

Only a thousand dead serfs a day? Sounds too advanced

I know the answer is GW is bad at number but its funny to think an was interstellar civil war over 10 times safer than WWII considering the stupid number of guard involved

[tired cairn]

Yeah, lol

"There is only war*"
* actually, it's a lot of relatively small scale skimishes

[valid brook]

There is Only War but war only consists of 2,000pt games so

[tired cairn]

This is clearly why the average guard lifespan can't be only 15 minutes. No one is playing that fast

[floral herald]

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future There Is Only Company to Battalion Level Force on Force Maneuver Warfare

[jaunty dawn]

in cityscapes

until both sides are totally obliterated

[rocky shale]

Or 5 rounds pass

[thin ibex]

In the grim darkness of the far future it's amazing how often chapter masters are directly involved in battle and not in the running of their chapter

Or really any named leader of great import

Lord solar leontus REALLY gets around

[still warren]

In the grim darkness of the 41st millenium there is only micromanaging

[thin ibex]

Dante? Pretty much at every battle the blood angels go to

Logan? You know he's there

Pedro Kantor is pretty much the only thing defining when the crimson fists are present

[upper bluff]

It's kind of funny to imagine that only each chapter's 1st company actually has anything happening and all the rest are surprisingly bored

[sonic hare]

unraveled when

[pale narwhal]

a book following the logistics corps of an astartes chapter would be pretty funny tbh

[valid brook]

Alas, the displayed stack appears to be missing the only HH book that’s Good, Actually

[still warren]

sky lantern spotten

[mental birch]

It's tol boy

I think I'm not building it with the nets

Also I need to base and paint the rest individually

[main pagoda]

OSHA would like a word

[mental birch]

Do you see how tol it si

[main pagoda]

"OSHA regulations for safety nets, as outlined in 29 CFR 1926.105, require nets to be used when workplaces are more than 25 feet above a lower level and other fall protection methods (like ladders, scaffolds, etc.) are impractical."

the CDEBOU (Celestial dragon emperor balloon operator union ) will see you in court

[junior summit]

I keep forgetting about the fucking chaperones

guilliman has the command staff of two chapters constantly surrounding him

[desert jay]

I think it's actually one guy each from twenty chapters

[paper bluff]

could a vetrenary treat a person? maybe if they deal with pigs a lot

[main pagoda]

I think that does understate how smart astartes are

apothecary's are the surgeons and battlefield medics of chapters im fairly sure they can work on humans lmao

[paper bluff]

It is known BIle can treat people, what that means for you....

well that can be alot of things

[main pagoda]

the thing would be that they probably wouldn't carry that much kit that can be used on non marines

[cinder wraith]

my custom made Tomb Queen / Princess

[upper canopy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYj3lDw65xo

[pine matrix]

Interesting, even more than marines it looks like they kinda nailed it from the beginning?

[pastel rampart]

They absolutely did, yeah.

Well, aside from war walkers anyway, they've had some of the more drastic changes over the model line.

[quaint compass]

Even then, I'm iffy on the war walkers

[pastel rampart]

They're different enough anyway.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/4/40/Wd149pg35.jpg

https://www.warhammer.com/app/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120104107_AELWarWalkers01.jpg

[past sphinx]

i didnt know the grey knights stole the nemesis from the eldar

[junior robin]

funny thing is that one theory is that the dreadkinghts origins are "xeno influenced" 🤓

and eldar vehicles are made of wraith bone which is a psycho-plastic substance, fitting for a chapter of physics

[past sphinx]

Rare is it ever that I find a model that's Just not fun to paint

Not hard to paint or An uninspired project but simply not fun

Hes the equivalent to slightly undercooked and over seasoned mac and cheese

[pine matrix]

Yo they had leather jackets??? Bring that back!

[thin ibex]

How are war walkers in the current Eldar internal balance?

[soft willow]

Still good, but somewhat paying for the sins of the 10th Eldar Index.

[pulsar cairn]

How big are the word bearers? Idk why but i have the impression that they must be very big

[floral herald]

They're the second largest traitor legion

iirc

[upper canopy]

Sounds about right

Even without the Marines they foster cults like no ones business

So they are able to throw mooks and daemons more than anyone else

[floral herald]

And they're one of the only unified legions

[upper canopy]

Except when they aren't

Looking at you dawn of war

[floral herald]

Unified by chaos space marine standards at least haha

[pulsar cairn]

is their geneseed usable? Did chaos corruption hinder theirs in any way?

[vital barn]

in 30k they were very numerous and also had many allies, in 40k, as Cyan said

don't think anything has been written about the geneseed but they still have a lot of lads so presumably it works fine

[pulsar cairn]

It would make sense if it did

[vital barn]

they share the role of "mook Chaos Marines" with the Black Legion/Sons of Horus so it's important at least a few of them respawn

[pulsar cairn]

And with all the cults they run they must have plenty of recruits

[past sphinx]

i wonder how many literally just preach from The Lectitio Divinitatus

[paper bluff]

there was at least one word bears dreadnaught that did

[past sphinx]

anchorite is dope

you know i find it interesting how captured the community is by loyalist traitor legionaries, this chapter or that chapter being secret iron warriors or nightlords

"hey i know sex drugs and rock and roll are cool but what if Motorhead was actually made up of hardline english puritans"

[remote wharf]

Very funny to me that GSC gets two soup detachments.

[past sphinx]

thats their job

be forgotten and be the side army for nid players

[paper bluff]

people love a good "I'm going against dad" character

I know it can't happen but I think it would be cool if there was a chapter led by an Eye of the emperor

[paper bluff]

also IMO if lorgar went against is adopted dad he would still be loyal

[upper bluff]

My understanding of things is that Lorgar could probably walk back into the imperium and convince an entire system that he's chill

[thin ibex]

He could, but he just couldn't help himself and the spikes and skin banners would eventually be a give away i think

It's well within Lorgar's capability to waltz into the Imperium and convince them he's chill. It is unfortunately not within his capabilities to restrain himself from eventually ruining his own ruse

Random thought

I do wish intercessors got a heavy bolter and the heavy intercessors got a drum nade launcher

Because I like squad level machine guns

[sour sequoia]

It’s basically consolation prizes for an army whose small roster was bolstered by allies every previous edition as I understand it.

Brood Brothers is a stinker of a detachment though, which is a shame.

[main pagoda]

reading tales of heresy rn, theres a short story about the 13th great company fucking up some dark eldar during the GC and saving the human populace from em but at the end they refuse compliance and the SW just wipe them out. It made me think all of those times they freed people from xeno overlords or tyrants surely there was some bit of them that went you know your not free just under new management

[pine matrix]

I guess they just don't think that freedom is worth anything unless it's under the imperium

The Imperium is in the right, all other polities are in the wrong, the only true freedom is in submission to the Emperor and Terra and his representatives

[thin ibex]

"You're not free, just under new management" feels like a tale as old as war

Abs to be fair the great crusade was not a liberatory one. That's why it called for the legions and not diplomats. It's primary purpose was the unification of man under one banner, no matter what

[pine matrix]

That Valdor book really is one of the best for laying out what the GC Imperium really is. "All the bureaucracy, titles and privileges are in service of the Emperor and his will, as soon as their holders turn against him, they are nothing"

[past sphinx]

My dad is Ozzy Osborn so im going to become a greek orthodox monk

[pine matrix]

The real juice is traitors from loyalist legions, though they don't actually get much play in the novels iirc

There's the schism in the Scars but that gets resolved by the Khan

[pulsar holly]

Look I'm just saying, I'm just saying....the Alpha Legion are truly loyal. They're heroes of the Heresy, and current day.

[main pagoda]

yeah most of the "traitor" scars get either killed or turned into the sagyar mazan a few do slip away but idk if they reappear

[pine matrix]

Alpha Legion stays winning(?)

[pine matrix]

Are there any notable traitors from loyalist legions?

I guess the Luther half of the Dark Angels

[pulsar holly]

Alpha Legion stays winning.

[pulsar holly]

COME ON NOW! LUTHER WAS THE LOYALIST HALF

[main pagoda]

define noteable lol, theres that RG who switched to being a NL and then entire IH chapter that helped turn mars traitor

[pulsar holly]

Wait there was a Raven Guard that became a Night Lord?

[main pagoda]

yeah

basically the scum of the earth but hey ho

[past sphinx]

some wolves fought for horus

[pine matrix]

Haha, I guess I meant "have stories told from their perspective". And which IH chapter was that? Was that in the Mechanicum book?

[main pagoda]

it was in the LI mechanicum book

and not sure

secturri?

[rocky shale]

Does anyone else's LGS have a regular that will not stop trying to sell you on the idea of buying recasts?

I've never encountered a type of guy like this before

[runic swallow]

Not encountered it myself, but I can easily imagine a guy like that

Or for a nicer side, the guy who’s a bit too enthusiastic about offering to print something on his 3D printer for you

[rocky shale]

We have other people who are printers and are all cool

[runic swallow]

(I think this one is nicer because it’s just a guy trying to be overly helpful)

[rocky shale]

This guy is just Mr. Recasts and plays with like 95% unpainted recast models

[runic swallow]

I’m becoming a bit of an addict of the printers at my local library

[rocky shale]

Fair

[runic swallow]

(I’m almost done printing up a Bradley platoon, next up will be doing a mechanized PLANMC platoon so I can do demo games)

[main pagoda]

yeah some people are just obnoxious about recasts

[past sphinx]

their a dying breed these days

theyve been outcompeted by the "gw is cringe and shot my dog, 3d printer go brr crowd"

tragic really

[pastel rampart]

3D printing is generally better than recasts at this point anyway.

[jaunty dawn]

yea

[pastel rampart]

If you manage to track down scans of actual factual GW models it's basically the same thing anyway. And if not, someone has made something damn close to what you want.

[past sphinx]

theres 1 maybe 2 recasters that are really very good and are still operating but theres the wait times and sorta sketchiness of it all

you can have a printer in a shed

[pastel rampart]

Yup.

Aliexpress is rife with recasters if you can find them and the quality is usually decent. But again, 3D printing kinda ate that shit for lunch.

[past sphinx]

the russians have it on lock

[sour sequoia]

My bones hurt

Roster was 20% TSons alone by volume, 75% power armor

That bein said having had no real blowouts and having no reps into any of these armies prior besides world eaters I think I did OK

Genestealers has the funniest advantage of “absolutely nobody has seen them before or knows they can actually kill, and then they have to realize the stupid plate spinning you’re doing”

[charred bridge]

They're not difficult either, usually the big ones like titans are actually real easy to print on FDM

Resin models are especially easy, good looking, and paints well

[sour sequoia]

Maxed secondaries every single round because people would let my chaff drop, kill it, let em come up on their turn from markers and keep scoring secondaries

Whatever, Go My Dirtbikes

[pastel rampart]

Yup! And the cost of entry is sub-$200 now, which puts it squarely in the reach of a fair amount of hobbyists.

[charred bridge]

As someone who started 3d printing for minis with FDM, wished I learned about resin sooner

The whole acetone smoothing bath for some reason appeals to me

[remote wharf]

I made a necron list and would like thoughts.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gqBx-DlGQLtVdKWTVozjm3Pl9FgeaXSInNqOu4AuRNw/edit?usp=sharing

[mental birch]

Seems weird

I cannot wrap my head around this list hahaha

[rocky shale]

Just because your detachment rule buffs those 3 keywords doesn't mean you should slam the max amount of those units

The list has no way to kill a tank

[mental birch]

Shit yeah that's what's been bugging me

Because like no tank killing

Not enough bodies to do the meme

[sour sequoia]

It’ll take a bit to go through all of this so I’ll edit this post as I go.

The way necrons shake out you don’t wanna split fire or unit purpose. I’d take 2x10 teslas and 1x10 or 2x5 gauss, plasmancers with tesla and chronos with gauss. Solid units you can’t quite go wrong with, JSJ stealth battleline is fantastic.

Triarchs will disappoint you. They will severely disappoint you. Lychguard with translo lords are fantastic midfield objective holders with the +1 OC strat to scam enemy battleline back after you slap em. You just don’t really need Triarch Praetorians, but the Stalkers crank.

You absolutely will need real antitank. Grab 2-3 Doomsday Arks, or a crapload of heavy lokhusts. I like DDAs here because Lychguard on points forces the heavy fire into the open for a counterpunch.

[remote wharf]

Eh, fair enough

[sour sequoia]

Triarch stalkers genuinely incredible units in Obeisance and in general. Scout onto objectives to force real units out to contest, scam with the +3 OC Strat or the -1 damage and the 4+ invuln, run lychguard onto the point and last forever

[rocky shale]

The answer is always doomsday ark

[remote wharf]

I'm very new on building lists in 10th and. I'm not big on destroyers or vehicles, It's not really what has me interested in 'crons. But I guess I'll splash in what you suggested.

[mental birch]

Not sure which detachment runs the best 20 warriors never die meme

[rocky shale]

In general you want a way to kill stuff T10+ which means you need S10+ weapons. Outside of destroyers, vehicles, or ctan, I'm not sure necrons has anything that can do that

Some armies can get away with pure infantry spam but idk if necrons can

[mental birch]

Tau technically but it's a meme

Kroot spam funny

And also a nightmare to play against because you keep seeing these ball of dudes who never die

[remote wharf]

I went with six guass destroyers, a doomsday ark, and heat ray stalker.

[past sphinx]

Hes a good terminator

[remote wharf]

I will say part of what inspired me to build my list as I did was an idea I had for a small dynasty with a proud history of warrior nobles, a tradition that maintain even into the 42nd millennium. So proud are they of it they ensure their blue-silver, gold, and red bodies gleam brightly even in battle. But the addition of destroyers gives me the idea of having any who fall to the madness of the destroyer cult giving up care for their bodies, having them grow tarnished and rusted, but staying just as deadly as ever.

[cinder wraith]

hear me out

warhammer 40k: Ordo Chronos Edition

you play 40k normally but time and standard date is heresy

as chaos

• you are eligible to declare charges through objectives into other table / games due to warp manipulation or BS
• time travel? with the addition of dimensional travel.
• WHA T THE FUCK IS A 12" CHARGE RANGE?!! RAAAAAAAHHH

imperium: charging into a different table / deployment is used with a percentage dice

[pastel rampart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408452338622267401/1399751067151110334/jm0yleqi2sff1.jpg?ex=688a2344&is=6888d1c4&hm=1ecd24c20a1bfed86e0420ee1572c8bb9528b4a0615808b7dfb22979391bf164&

[meager quail]

Yeah okay I'm adding this to my belief system.

[junior robin]

finally, the emperors barking backscratchers primaris lieutenant

[past sphinx]

Thats a Chinese mace thingy

[still warren]

Onyx crowmen for Cathay?

[junior robin]

wait a minute, China...

[pine matrix]

Getting wacked with the ancient chinese sticky hand

[junior robin]

Jaghatai Khan Confirmed?!?!?!

[pine matrix]

"Why'd you replace your Dao with this hand mace, Khan?"
"..."

[meager quail]

"It's cooler."

[past sphinx]

"It was a gift from my family"

[pulsar cairn]

Ya know

I was looking at chaos dwarfs

I feel like they would be evil even without Chaos

Kind of like the Iron warriors?

[runic swallow]

Look, I’ll say the IW probably could have been much more normal, it’s the bitterness that is eternal

Whatever side they would have been on, whoever they would be fighting for, they’d always be bitter

[main pagoda]

chaos dwarves are just assholes

[charred bridge]

Traitor Ordo Chronos inquisitor finds an STC for an earth calendar and drops it by Mars. Chaos ensues

[junior robin]

now I'm tempted to build some time marines....

[pastel rampart]

http://puu.sh/Ky2o7/fd2cef019b.jpg

[charred bridge]

Funny even if the ordos chronos is justified in this, sort of, maybe? Theres not much on it

[junior robin]

just a squad of marines showing up next to you asking what year it is mid-combat

[charred bridge]

Is that what the skaven use to drill into Age Of Sigmar when the universe reset

Love how skaven survived reality being wiped out by digging into the new one

[thin ibex]

cant get rid of the rats

[bright dove]

Well I mean, they are the daemons of the fifth chaos god.

[floral herald]

This fucks actually

Actually cool answer for what the Terminus Decree is

[jaunty dawn]

Pfff

Malcador, founding the grey knights; yeah so in retrospect-

[floral herald]

Really funny if the Starchild theory is true and the GK try to hunt them down to put his ass BACK in the chair

[pine matrix]

Tha'ts really cool

Grey Knights vs everybody

[thin ibex]

that feels like an extreme interpretation of that kill buddha if you meet him on the road thing

but also like... is it because he's a perpetual

[jaunty dawn]

I mean seemingly its fully just a like

Golden throne functioning is better than anything any form of a returned emperor would be

At least in malcadors opinion at the end of the heresy

[floral herald]

Was it?

[jaunty dawn]

Thats what this suggests

Like

He made the terminus decree surely

[floral herald]

Ah fair

I was thinking back to all the weird stuff he said in tE&tD and trying to remember

[jaunty dawn]

Although in practice it doesnt really work out very well since like

[floral herald]

But he sent a lot of last minute psychic messages then…

[jaunty dawn]

Once the emperor does one of these things talisman of seven hammers goes boom

But maybe malcador wasnt told abt that

[pastel rampart]

What book is that from?

[jaunty dawn]

Oh no

[floral herald]

I think he might have been dead by then

[jaunty dawn]

Malcador and vulcan discuss it but apparently its not a dead mans switch just vulkans discretion

[floral herald]

New GK codex

[pastel rampart]

Ah, yeah that'll supersede previous knowledge then.

It does put the anti-astartes phage from TE&TD into question though.

[floral herald]

Yeah

It would be on brand for there to be both a Terminus Sanction and Terminus Decree though

[pastel rampart]

Yeah.

[quaint compass]

And the Terminus Accord

[past sphinx]

isnt that peusdo canon? like emps did have kids and the imperium merc'd em

[floral herald]

Oh I might have been mixing that up with the Sensei?

[past sphinx]

some inquisitors thought if you got all the sensei together and sacrificed them you'd get a starchild

or a revived emps

this is like 3rd edition witchhunters codex i think

[desert jay]

Human sacrifice: Not just a Chaos thing

[paper bluff]

did you think psykers aren't people?

[desert jay]

Okay I meant in the "upon the altars of your god(s)" sense, not like using humans as batteries or w/e

Using people for suicide missions or for daemon bait or w/e also count under the wide definition

[charred bridge]

Their heretical human sacrifice.
Our righteous voluntary death

[soft willow]

Originally part of the Inquisition War Trilogy.

[paper bluff]

it is also that for emps

[remote wharf]

Holy shit.

[past sphinx]

OBJECTIVE UPDATED : FISTFIGHT GOD AND ALL HIS ANGELS TO PUT HIM BACK ON THE ETERNAL TORMENT BOX

[remote wharf]

No clue where this is from or if it's even canon or just a big fanon assumption but isn't the worry that if something happens to Emps or the Throne it would tear open a Warp Storm that would make the Great Rift look like a joke?

[floral herald]

It’s canon and has been around for a while - one of the things the golden throne is doing is controlling the energy of the webway portal which was breached

And post HH even stabilizing Terra’s existence in the materium

[past sphinx]

IIRC if emps dies or the throne fails terra goes kaboom

vulkans failsafe

[remote wharf]

So The Emperor staying put is not only important for the Imperium's stability but reality's as well.

[thin ibex]

There's an open warp portal kinda, in the depths of the palace. Magnus tore it open while trying to warn big E about Horus

Effectively compromising the palace in one fell swoop

[paper bluff]

though dioclitian can get to the actual throne, the one most seen is actually some sort of psychic thing

[remote wharf]

I saw some idiots saying that female custodes don't count because there's no female custodes models. Ignoring the fact that The Tithes shows that female Custodes look exactly the same in full plate as their male counterparts because that's how armor works, things not having models doesn't mean they don't exist in universe.

[thin ibex]

The custodes ranks aren't a fraternity, plain and simple

And the distinction of gender is academic for a custodes. Identity wise they are a custodes, a companion, first. Their gender identity probably ranks quite low for them in terms of personal significance.

Space marines, I think, should have female members, but I also do buy the concept of them being a boys club within the scope of the setting narrative

[past sphinx]

Male in the say dragon age qunari sense

"You are a space marine, space marines are sons of the primarch therefore you are his son"

[thin ibex]

Though since the emperor kind of hand crafted the custodes, if you wanted to portray him as some sort of immortal mega sexist, then it would follow that the stodes and marines are all men.

[past sphinx]

Interesting that his pinnacle of mankind are seemingly neutral in warp ability

[thin ibex]

But meh. I prefer to imagine the setting where all sexes are included in the production of horrifying super soldiers as a matter of efficiency, not inclusivity

[past sphinx]

I like to think that geneseed would absolutely work both ways but literally no one ever in the imperium would ever think of it

Just couldn't enter their mind after 10k years

Takes someone like bile to make the new men project

[thin ibex]

I do think that it would've been better, narratively, to have explained the lack of sex representation as a matter of ass-backwards social conditioning and not a vague "their bones are wrong, that's why women can't be space marines"

[pale narwhal]

I’m just going to put female marines as named characters in my carcharodons army

Idgaf it’s cool and I’m researching some baller names

[quaint compass]

Fish-Bill
Big Blue
Lady Bitesly

[pale narwhal]

I’m very tempted to call one Gawr Gura

But generally I’m going for maori names that have historical and/or symbolic meaning

[desert jay]

I'm personally in the camp of "all space marines are men, but some are cis and some are trans"

You want a seven foot tall sculpted physique with shoulders as wide as a fridge, hanging out with other such physical specimens all day, and yelling BROTHER at each other? Yeah

[wintry mist]

I am in the camp that all space marines are amab but some are cis men some are trans women

[floral herald]

My sorta take on it is that “space marine” is the gender but it’s mostly masc-presenting

[paper bluff]

Valdor would identify as an "it/its" I bet

[paper bluff]

Technically speaking they are all trans(human)

[floral herald]

Nothing technical about it they’re all on HRT and there’s a word from 2004 for clocking a space marine and getting scared

[west zealot]

Where's this from?

Edit, oh I see

[paper bluff]

They're masc in the was of attitude era professional wrestling

I do like the custodes "jump em!" Misercordia

[pine matrix]

Getting jumped by Custodes and hearing one yell "feed him to the throne"

[paper bluff]

This is heresy times so none of that

yet

[pine matrix]

"Put him in Magnus' folly"

[paper bluff]

"Get him into the webway!"

But that is messed up because of magus' folly so 6 of one, half dozen of another

[pulsar cairn]

ya think Custodes ever shank Space Marines just for fun?

[main pagoda]

kinda what the blood games are

[thin ibex]

Just for fun? Never. To more acutely understand how to kill a space marine? Absolutely

Blood games are wild

Custodes are ever pursuing the refinement of their skill and knowledge

They're the kind of warriors where, if there isn't a time constraint, they'll stretch out a fight just to more fully understand their opponent before killing them

[paper bluff]

Idk if "fun" exists to a custodes

Enrichment might be more accurate

[thin ibex]

Yeah that's probably the way they see fun

I mean they still feels things like exhilaration as I understand it, it's just different

Like Valerian takes joy in utilizing his combat prowess and in study.

[paper bluff]

They fully have indefinite lifespans. Some have been around sine tunderwarrior times

[paper bluff]

Yeah. Fulfillment of purpose

I still thing that moment with the thunderwarrior commander vs valdor is the most telling of custodians

[sharp needle]

500 hormagaunts

[silk torrent]

I love my forty thousand warhammers I hope it doesn't get eaten

[sharp needle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-boys-yummers-the-boys-yummers-meme-yummers-meme-gif-10229506808836437820

[floral herald]

Yeah it’s the codex there were a couple of other new tidbits but nothing else I saw which was as interesting

Draigo got a mention but the only new thing I saw was that the GK are thinking they might have to replace him with a grand master for the chapter who shows up to work

I think this showed up on the subreddit

Would be cool

[paper bluff]

castellan crowe is confirmed a purtetual yeah?

[floral herald]

Feels kinda funny that it would make KT extremely NL slanted

But maybe (god please) it’s just new generic raptors

[paper bluff]

It would be funny it there was a helmet with 3 eyes on it for the nightlords

[thin ibex]

I don't think it was crowe that's a perpetual its stern

[floral herald]

I didn’t see that but idk since I’m just going off of other people’s snips

[thin ibex]

Stern has been a perpetual for forever

Crowe is just the purist guy there is

Purest*

[paper bluff]

Stern?

[floral herald]

If he’s so pure why does he have a daemonsword? Checkmate corpse-botherers

[thin ibex]

Oh my brain mixed em up

[paper bluff]

To lock it down

[thin ibex]

Thawn is the perpetual

Anval Thawn

Stern is just a named Grey knight who was in a novel i think famous for solo banishing a greater daemon

Arvann Stern, Anval Thawn

[paper bluff]

Kinda like how the exorcists specifically put daemons in people but also if you fail the test and a daemon gets trapped in the scout they cram a few more daemons in there and lock that body away. Takes the daemons out of comission

[tired cairn]

That's not usually how exorcism works

[thin ibex]

Doesn't he have the demon sword because he's so Uber pure or whatever? Incorruptible-est

[tired cairn]

Sounds like what someone who uses a demon sword would say

[jaunty dawn]

celestians would be so poggers

although I still need to paint raveners. and assemble tyranid terrain. aaa

[thin ibex]

Commando celestians?

[paper bluff]

Yeah and the sword is extremely dangerous and always talked to him about using it. It's like a mass control daemon and every mind it takes in increases it's power so it goes exponential growth pretty quickly

But he pretty much just uses it as a sword that's really good at cutting stuff

[floral herald]

this daemonblade is too powerful and evil for you to use, only I can wield it
~thousands of chaos space marines, and Castellan Crowe

[thin ibex]

Homeboy is built different, allegedly.

More resistant than fulgrim I guess

He's like the crystallization of the concept around Grey knights being incorruptible

[tired cairn]

Crowe must do psychic battle with the Blade itself, for it strives ever to tempt him with promises of power or bind his will with the blackest sorceries. As such, Crowe never draws upon the Blade's powers, relying instead on its physical properties and his own skill at arms

Bro, just get a normal sword

... is this a kink thing?

[paper bluff]

Not for the sword

It's interesting lore considering it's a blue oyster cult reference

https://youtu.be/_p1yaNC1mNg?si=ESD4l1-NEbX7Xb_p

[tired cairn]

This is Castellan Crowe: https://youtu.be/Oh1nqnZAKxw?si=5PGTk4jpqLKTR-qh

[jaunty dawn]

celestian kill team makes sense cause like one of their things is being sent to retrieve shit

I hope we get like

ranged celestians as an option

(again)

[junior robin]

which is a refference to the Stormbringer from Michael Moorcock's "Elric of Melniboné" series of books and short stories 🤓

[deft crest]

ah this would rule

I love people going "Why more nightlords"
Idk dude why more Orks? Why more Tau? Why mo-

[floral herald]

NL are a great kind of CSM for KT too

[paper bluff]

That sleepy bitch could never hold a black blade in check!

You know the funniest move GW could pull? Exodite kill team

[runic swallow]

“Release the velociraptors!”

[deft crest]

I know some EC players that are still waiting for some better rep for their freaks

in kill team

[tired cairn]

Yeah. I definitely get "why not x" griping if your little dudes don't have representation in the game yet

[past sphinx]

NIGHTLORDS STAY WINNING

[floral herald]

I would love some EC freaks in KT but NL are good too

Especially if it means new Raptor sculpts

[runic swallow]

I always love the Night Lords for being absolute shitty losers

Just a bunch of squabbling dickheads going after soft targets and running their asses off at any notable resistance 😌

Would and do shank each other for a somewhat shiny pebble

This sounds like being extremely negative, and it is, but I love these garbage boys

[paper bluff]

Their primarch literally died to prove the point he was right so being shitty loosers is a geneseed trait imo lol

[jagged dawn]

https://spikeybits.com/games-workshop-targets-cosplayers-and-larpers/

[tired cairn]

Huh, when did he say that?

[still warren]

Did gk codex, that's what the terminus decree is

[paper bluff]

There was a meme that had Stewart from letterkenny and it said nightlords fans be like "behold our glorious primarch" and I cannot find it

[past sphinx]

spikey bits

I thought their links where banned these days?

[floral herald]

Were they?

I don’t like the site myself but I might be missing some context haha

[past sphinx]

They fabricated some lies about Army painter a while back and they got shut out of a lot of spaces

The fabricate lies about most things tho

[floral herald]

Oh damn

[past sphinx]

Its impressive warhammer has its own The sun news

[floral herald]

I didn’t know about that I just think of them having these useless listicles flooded with affiliate links

[past sphinx]

So very british it spawned a rag

[main pagoda]

spikybits has always just been shit goonhammer

[remote wharf]

Fucked up that Crypteks can cast radiation poisoning.

[main pagoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nria-WbNzkg

[jagged dawn]

Was not aware

Mb

[pulsar cairn]

I didnt know they actually killed each other in the blood games i mean...it fits the vibe of 40k but hoooooly

[tepid stratus]

The leak does mention them fighting over a relic inside xenos ruins (so presumably coming with an expansion set for the tomb world)

Plus it leans into the massive NL vs SoB rivalry going on right now

[floral herald]

Yeah the Celestine one makes a lot of sense to me

Lore makes sense

SoB KT is funky for their faction identity (not in power armor)

There’s long been rumors of an all jump pack PA team

So I can buy Raptors

[tired cairn]

Ok, but it would be really funny if it was Seraphim vs Raptors. Battle of the jump jets

(it would be extra funny albeit cruel if it was a non-jump jet Night Lord kill team)

[main pagoda]

they dont kill each other they only kill the "prey"

[thin ibex]

I would actually love for the KT for the SoB to be their iconic seraphim

[tired cairn]

I also wonder if Tyranid Warriors will get bumped up to five-being squads. Bonus points if they also get a kill team release so that Tyranids somewhat humorously continue to be hyper-elite in that game

[rocky shale]

I caved and bought some votann to see if I like painting them