They have their own index at least
#Warhammer and Such
unreal cosmos
They CAN be run as generic SM but they have enough weird stuff to be run as their own thing
desert jay
DA is getting a codex release in Q1, I assume SW and the others are getting theirs sooner or later
spice flicker
So for the Rogue Trader campaign I am running I plan to have an inquisitor of the Ordo Malleus based on Makima from Chainsaw Man appear before too long due to an endeavor that would have the party run across a daemon of chaos Undivided associated with technology while exploring an abandoned facility on a resource rich world. I think I have a good idea for the inquisitor and have it below but I was curious about what you guys thought? I also included two more npcs I was considering but would be interested in whether I should include them or not and if so what suggestions you might have.
"Inquistor Amikam": A high ranking Inquisitor of the Odro Malleus of unknown history who is not only secretly a radical but is also a daemon in disguise manipulating things for a goal nobody has figured out. I was planning on making her either an Undivided greater daemon of the Inquisiton (representing the fear of the Inquisition) or a greater daemon of Tzeentch that may or may not be a Lord of Change disguised as a human.
Potentially Asa/Yoru: a relatively normal person who the party may encounter (havent decided if ill include them or not) when someone calls in a favor to investigate something peculiar. I am thinking of having them be something along the lines of a daemonhost with Yoru possessing Asa's body but maybe the host has more control to the point where the human and daemon are equally in control. Maybe something like the gal vorbak (without being astartes) in which case it could bring the unwanted attention of the Word Bearers onto them and the party if they let her join a ship. If "Amikam" is Undivided I might have Yoru also be Undivided to keep the "sister" connection otherwise a khorne daemon of some kind.
Idk how to do Fami if I was to include her to keep the horsemen from missing a member (nothing is known about the death devil so whe wont be included regardless.)
Sorry for the wall of text
soft willow
Plausable, but no real way to confirm or deny it AFAIK.
pastel rampart
Firmly under plausible given the attitude of GW at the time.
soft willow
Also for those wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
floral herald
Plausable, but no real way to confirm or deny it AFAIK.
Yeah that’s fair
Opération Satanique is on the nose enough for 40K too
soft willow
The illustration in question:
thin ibex
nah, don't think so
but that twitter post definitely feels plausible, but its as the others said
floral herald
The symbol is also used a lot in relevant ways as a religious symbol in the Middle Ages
In medieval England, from the mid-12th century, a noblewoman's seal often showed the lady with a fleur-de-lis, drawing on the Marian connotations of "female virtue and spirituality".
spice flicker
I mean this is warhammer where there is no shortage of irony to be had.
modern tiger
I am suprised at the fact we are getting new combat patrols with each codex but I’d assume they want to do that to make the combat patrol game mode more balanced
Since they seem to not be including heavier vehicles at all
unreal cosmos
Well the old patrols will still be rules legal
modern tiger
Yeah
Not sure if they’re gonna be available once the new ones drop tho, or if gw will keep the rules for the old ones up
modern tiger
Since they seem to not be including heavier vehicles at all
The heaviest we’re seeing so far is a doom stalker and a psychophage
unreal cosmos
Probably not. I wonder if there will be any easy 1k armies to be built from just getting the 9e and 10e boxes
modern tiger
Ok wow that doomstalker is gonna be pretty good
D6+1 shots with blast at s14
Oh nvm
but yeah i bet you could mush the 2 combat patrols together and get close to 1000
desert jay
Yeah AFAIK the only 9e patrol not to stick around is the Necron one
modern tiger
sucks for marines and nids tho lmao
desert jay
Oh wait yeah Marines and Tyrandis too, forgot them
modern tiger
although i feel they would stop selling the old admech combat patrol like they did with sm, nids and crons tho
desert jay
Prolly yeah
thin ibex
oh theres no nid or marine combat patrol currently? i thought they did?
desert jay
There's the new ones from the Leviathan release but the 9e ones are gone
thin ibex
also thats a solid point, if you pick up both mechanicus patrols you'll have a relatively solid all rounder list for mechanicus
i do think the older mechanicus patrol is a bit better
in terms of what you get
but the new one is cool
desert jay
And also the 10e Necron one is a subset of the Indomintus box
modern tiger
both combat patrols together is 645 points
modern tiger
thin ibex
unless you're wanting to do a skew based competetive list, but eh
modern tiger
yeah but that means youre only getting liek 300 points per box which is a bit cheap imo
thin ibex
thats about what you get out of the astra militarum box too
about 365 iirc
or 345 i forget
tau combat patrol is 390 currently
votann at 370
orks are actually one of the pricier ones at 480 points
huh i just realized either the librarian or the captain int he sm patrol has no one to join
theres a fair amount of variance it seems
in point value
im honestly surprised that so far its the ork one that was most points valuable
im also honestly surprised to find out that the imperial guard one plays decently against the ork one
considering the points differential
might be made up in combat patrol specific abilities perhaps
long void
ebon forge
Finally, my Dead Hand has arrived /j
Also, i kinda embarassed to ask this but
Without being a pain in the ass for the party
How you would play a Kharn inspired character in a TTPRPG?
jagged dawn
I don’t know if anyone has already posted this but
https://fxtwitter.com/warhammer/status/1722600468998746460?s=46&t=oWW_NnXMz5xZU9SUUTq01g
upper canopy
ya we talked about it a bit ago
naive abyss
ngl i would kill for a plastic primaris stormseer
pastel rampart
Or at least not FW resin.
past sphinx
had a pretty good time last time i got FW models
granted i didnt get one with print lines witch i was kinda hoping for
pastel rampart
I suspect there'll be some suspiciously-close stormseer STLs by the end of the week.
naive abyss
lol
past sphinx
hell thats just remixing things i know for sure people already have
dont even need to rerig anything
past sphinx
Warp miniatures are fantastic
probably some of the strongest 3d printed work on the market IMO
weary dragon
https://vxtwitter.com/ShadeFish1/status/1722808679659888873 Funny image aside what is this Space Marine from? I could of swore I have seen them before
the armor actually looks kinda cool
weary dragon
Huh, could of swore I saw a weird dragon looking Space Marine like this before but Rogue Trader is fine
unreal cosmos
That's just the Alpha Legion overall aesthetic
that is, scales and hydra imagery. the teeth on the beak less so.
weary dragon
Ah okay
unreal cosmos
Salamanders will sometimes use dragon motifs too so you could be thinking of that
pastel rampart
Yeah. Dragons are a semi-popular motif for both types of marines.
unreal cosmos
I don't know how familiar you are with the overall lore so I'm not certain how in-depth to go
but I am fairly certain that this picture is just a somewhat creative depiction of an Alpha Legion marine in MkVI armor, rather than a specific canon character
weary dragon
I am not overly familiar. I am familiar enough that I have general ideas of stuff but I can't probably pick out very specific details about faction aesthetics as well
mental birch
https://vxtwitter.com/WolfdawgArt/status/1722712388468641876
Oh gods that's adorable
gonna do a skink head on the model
to make a lawye
r
thin ibex
floral herald
That book has so many bangers
naive abyss
that writing is cool ngl
but i do find it funny how emps is like so aggressively hyped in text so much
and like sigmar is too to an extent but it feels nowhere near as much
but ngl sigmars def my pref of the two
like the fact the fucker just clung to the dead remains of the old world is cool ngl
also hes just sorta hilariously more competent and like not self sabotaging
floral herald
Well, the next book kinda goes "this is bad" for a lot of this stuff
naive abyss
fair
long void
Sigmar is probably 2/3 Conan the Barbarian
naive abyss
?
long void
ah, in terms of Sigmar being hype
naive abyss
like sigmar does have some conan inspo for sure but they are pretty drastically different lol
long void
Conan is pretty nebulous too, since there's so many writers using the character
floral herald
Since (spoilers) ||The Dark King is what the Emperor is becoming by taking on that aspect||
naive abyss
also like removing all the power level or etc things
i just prefer sigmar cuz he actually uses a fucking hammer lol
i am a simple person ultimately
he also has a cool beard
long void
-nod- A warhammer, very significant
onyx elm
What is this some kind of, "war hammer?"
(Coming next Summer...)
naive abyss
also like we know so much about sigmar but it doesnt cheapen him it only enhances
which maybe sounds odd
long void
Old World Sigmar ended up ruling for a time to get the Empire sorted out, then left on another adventure, right?
naive abyss
but idk with emps we get constant hype and then like just very hollow vagueries about him lol
naive abyss
Old World Sigmar ended up ruling for a time to get the Empire sorted out, then l...
he basically got bored realized he may not be able to die of old age anymore and didnt wanna be a tyrant and left yeah
and eventually sorta just became a god tm
long void
Wonder how Sigmar felt to meet Ulric when he ascended
glossy vapor
So, know the lore but only have watched tutorials on the basics of playing 10th.
what is the purpose of having both a wound roll and a save roll? like, thematically and gameplay wise they are doing the same thing: "you got hit, roll to resist". It seems redundant.
I assume it isnt wholly a relic of older design and there is actually a reason for things like say, having both ap and higher toughness represent a weapon being hard to resist.
brittle salmon
The answer is rooted in mechanics and is really quite simple, lethality reduction
Making it a three step process as opposed to two slows down how quickly things die
floral herald
There's 2 main things it does:
-
Allows you to separate things which are tough from things which are armored. This is a little less important than it used to be since armory free pick is rarer but it means you can have artificer armor sisters of battle (T3, 2+) which feel very different from Ork Boys (T5, 6+)
-
They are effected by different things, Toughness opposes weapon strength and armor opposes armor penetration. This means that you can have weapons which are good at defeating heavily armored infantry which can't work as antitank weapons, and weapons which can fell huge monsters but bounce from effective armor.
-
Also yeah Briar is right and it makes things less lethal in the D6 based system
torn arrow
There's 2 main things it does:
* Allows you to separate things which are *tough*...
hey cyan since you're awake, over in #1161730220164911187 barcode mentioned off hand that 40k is on smaller tables now?
(I stopped playing many years ago, and this sounded interesting)
floral herald
yeah 40k boards are 44 inches by 60 inches now
Not much smaller but they are
Used to be 48x72 iirc?
AFAIK the difference is mostly just for easier playability
Since a 6'x4' board is often kind of hard to fit in a room
glossy vapor
Sorry if this sounds to "but thats stupid" but wouldnt tougness be better represented by more wounds?
it feels like thematic overlap
torn arrow
Wounds also gives a third dimension of things that there are a lot of or that are soft but bulky
revealing my ancient gamer level here but snotlings used to be a single base with like, T2 and 10 wounds
glossy vapor
how exacly is high toughness bulky different from high woulds bulky?
floral herald
Sorry if this sounds to "but thats stupid" but wouldnt tougness be better repres...
If everything is the same toughness and you just adjust based on wound count then you can just lasgun everything to death with equal ease or difficulty
glossy vapor
ok yeah thats fair
floral herald
High toughness=you ain't doing shit without a high strength weapon
High wounds=either shoot it a LOT or use high damage weapons
I will say that usually high toughness and good armor is related
At least above like 5-6
glossy vapor
If everything is the same toughness and you just adjust based on wound count the...
ok fair, with d6's and so many units where you want to keep wounds low for simplicity of tracking you only have so much resolution.
floral herald
There are some quite high wounds units
But that's usually for large centerpiece models who you don't want to get shot off the board quickly
brittle salmon
eg. Superheavies
torn arrow
It used to also be for weird horde units
torn arrow
it sells the 'you can kill a few of them'
floral herald
(Probably T3 when I played)
torn arrow
'but can you kill ALL of them'
desert jay
Wound count also matters for things that don't care about armor/invuln or even the toughness roll
eg. Mortal and devastating wounds
torn arrow
That's all after my time but yes true
Even back in the day there were the occasional d3 or d6 wounds stuff
desert jay
Yeah DWs are a 10e thing and MWs were added in... 8e???
But yeah "do X wounds" existed before and MWs are basically just specific codification of that
floral herald
Even back in the day there were the occasional d3 or d6 wounds stuff
I don't remember much of that before 6 or 7 e
torn arrow
Yeah 6 or 7 sounds right
floral herald
Outside of like Strength D
floral herald
I think that might have been the least fair intro box
In terms of like "make all your models fight" balance
torn arrow
Man, I do NOT remember dark vengeance, I might have quit by then
Also yes, shit was unbalanced as fuck
torn arrow
Standard bolter go brrr through de warriors
floral herald
floral herald
IIRC split fire wasn't a thing in 3e so how exactly are those warriors supposed to kill the landspeeder?
They can't glance it with rifles
torn arrow
Dark eldar was an....interesting choice for a faction starter
They have splinter cannons but you gotta waste time
floral herald
(Though I think it only had a MM option so it wasn't exactly dangerous to the DE)
oh yeah 4 splinter cannons is more than I thought
brittle salmon
still
floral herald
Dark eldar was an....interesting choice for a faction starter
IIRC they were the brand new faction
brittle salmon
weren't splinter cannons only like S4
torn arrow
Huh that makes sense
junior summit
weren't splinter cannons only like S4
S4 and at the time poison didn't work on armor
so you uh, didn't
floral herald
I forget the strength since DE guns had poisoned 4+ on like everything
torn arrow
They can glance and they got more than one shot
floral herald
I can't remember if glances could kill in 3e
torn arrow
And I think skimmers had nastier glance results
floral herald
I think so yeah
floral herald
yeah
junior summit
this was also when skimmers had their entirely fucked batch of special rules
err
wait no fish of fury was fifth ed my bad
floral herald
fish of fury was 3e
But not really relevant for this setup since it wasn't a transport
floral herald
Fish of fury was a 3e strat
It showed up some in 4e but iirc was less egregious because it was easier to kill skimmers
brittle salmon
There were also rules changes specifically to prevent in 3e iirc?
Something about skimmers landing if they don't move on a turn
Which cut your sight lines for the Fire Warriors
floral herald
That was a later ruling for Tau skimmers iirc
Since FoF made people really mad
I wasn’t playing at that time so it’s all secondhand for me
But IIRC part of the reason FoF was strong was because it was a pretty good counter to the other really dominant list in 3e which was mech blood angels
torn arrow
FoF was mostly done to block charges
floral herald
Yeah
floral herald
And mech blood angels got TONS of reliable round 1 and 2 charges in 3e
torn arrow
Dunno when they fixed it
mental birch
FISH
hehehe
FOF is back
though as a fast I'm sitting on objectives for way less points
brittle salmon
Was it possible to charge out of transports in 3e?
floral herald
Yes*
brittle salmon
Yeah that'd be why
torn arrow
Can't remember, it was 25 years ago :^)
floral herald
(You could but only if the transport hadn’t moved or was open topped iirc)
brittle salmon
huh
floral herald
So the normal mech blood angels strat was running a bunch of nasty stuff up 18” round one and popping smoke
brittle salmon
Surprised Orks didn't see more play there
floral herald
Then R2 they pop out, move and charge
brittle salmon
Slash dominance
floral herald
Orks kind of sucked in 3e due to high points costs iirc
brittle salmon
torn arrow
Which edition was the fucking infamous nob bikers
brittle salmon
5e
floral herald
Then their late 4e book came out and made boyz 6ppm and they utterly dominated the meta until 5e came out
torn arrow
That was F U N
brittle salmon
Nob Bikers in 5e were fucking invincible basically
floral herald
(Then 5e kept them relevant because of Nob Bikerz haha)
torn arrow
Orks should be good solely because it's funny
Alternatively being bad is also funny because then people get mad when you win
floral herald
Orks are actually quite strong now which is fun
brittle salmon
IIRC they had permacover so you had to bust through T5, armor, cover, then the 5+ FNP
floral herald
They aren’t like dominating the meta but they’re generally placing well in tourneys
brittle salmon
From the inevitable Mad Dok they had attached
torn arrow
[Eldar player being incredibly tactical and careful]
[Three ork player team just chanting ERE WE GO ERE WE GO ERE WE GO and having to be restrained from eating the boyz that get killed]
floral herald
IIRC they had permacover so you had to bust through T5, armor, cover, then the 5...
Yeah they had T5, 4+ armor, [complicated] access to a 5++, 4+ permacover, 5+++ and because of wound allocation shit you have to put a wound on all of them before a model dies
brittle salmon
Oh they also had- yeah the wound allocation nonsense
mental birch
T'au is very fun to play
floral herald
So unless you had a large number of S8+ attacks they just Don’t Die
torn arrow
Good luck doing that when they are up in your shit turn 2
brittle salmon
yeah you need IKs
Best case scenario you have a bunch of melta on like
Your special weapon squads or something
floral herald
There were a few good options
But pretty much all of them had counterplay since Nob bikers were fast as fuck
mental birch
(Tau is stupidly reliant on fast cheap units that can pace the game out)
floral herald
Basilisks, TH/SS assault termies, that sort of thing
Oh and GK just annihilated Nob Bikers kind of across the board
But 5e GK were just kind of gross in general
brittle salmon
5e GK did some fucking mean shit
Nemesis Force Weapons started at S6 iirc
And Hammerhand added +2S?
So your shit started IKing T4 models
junior summit
Yeah they had T5, 4+ armor, [complicated] access to a 5++, 4+ permacover, 5+++ a...
weeping
floral herald
Nob bikers were honestly kind of overrated but they were strong for the whole edition
I found them fairly easy to handle as orks
brittle salmon
If you could catch up and match them in melee they weren't anything special
Just very durable vs ranged
brittle salmon
yup yup
Guard were also really quite good in that edition
Mech guard shuttled by Chimera was Rude
Also was the first codex with Valkyries
(rip Vendettas, Colossi and Medusae)
glossy vapor
Ok, trying to grok the 40k defense/attack stat triangle: probably put too much time and effort into this but going to post to see how close i got anyway.
junior summit
why is that a pdf
glossy vapor
why is that a pdf
because i didnt want to post a massive wall of text.
junior summit
ah
jaunty dawn
another reason for the three rolls is that with dice pools its just a pretty fast mechanic
it's definitely on the edge and stuff like rerolling both hits and wounds can slow it down a lot
but roll a bunch of d6s, remove some, roll them again is really fast because the d6s are quick to identify
and that's how you get around the fact that d6s individually have less results
long void
Most infantry, even space marines, had 1 wound too.
So that armor save created the tense moment of seeing if a crucial model lived or died
And the phrase "anything but a 1!" when you're rolling that armor save is a fun way to tempt fate.
past sphinx
Wait a tick, that's the chapter symbol from astartes innit
thin ibex
i also had another thought, and that being about the champions of russ detachment
its not good perse, but it really buys into the idea of models and dice telling stories
naive abyss
Wait a tick, that's the chapter symbol from astartes innit
It's definitely similar
naive abyss
naive abyss
pulsar cairn
dorf dorf dorf
when we talk about possible classes for darktide
what are the most likely?
floral herald
who knows haha
tired cairn
Gib Tech Adept pls
pulsar cairn
what do you think of a breacher? 
brittle salmon
Honestly the answer is a Mechanicus person of some variety
brittle salmon
what do you think of a breacher? <:vicksyInspect:996566514226430063>
Too similar to existing classes
pulsar cairn
aw
ratling?
maybe not
veteran can be a sniper already
is there a class of weapons nobody uses?
tardy vault
Btw there is a dedicated darktide thread #1159883850562932826
desert jay
Contemplation: In the wargame, Ogryn squad is 21.7 ppm, Intercessors are 17 ppm, therefore Ogryn are more badass than Primaris marines
floral herald
I think that's been true for a while
Ogryn are like T5 W3 monsters
Tyranid Warriors with crappier armor
brittle salmon
I think that's been true for ages actually
Weren't Ogryn 3 wounds as far back as 5th ed?
floral herald
it's been true since I started playing at least
I think so
Back when space marines were T4 W1
brittle salmon
Yeah lol
desert jay
Hahaha
desert jay
Ogryn are like T5 W3 monsters
On checking, T6 W3 Sv5+ 6+++
So yeah tough
Bullgryn improve that to Sv4+ and, depending on shield, 4++ or W4
spice flicker
unreal cosmos
in Horus Heresy I think the Imperialis Militia "oops all ogryn" build is like, crazy good
junior robin
aw yis, blanchitsu marine
junior robin
where does the line go with "clothes you can wear over armour"? 🤔
we got robes, capes and tabards so far.
and a skin coat from bile.
junior robin
there is that weird leather chest armour for the phobos librarian
jaunty dawn
phobos librarian is cool
tepid stratus
like this
Man the winterfor sculpts are so good. Shame it's kind of the most boring Pano sectorial
More coats over power armour pls
jaunty dawn
temperstors? have a big greatcoat hung on their shoulders over carapace
tepid stratus
Tempestor primes yeah
jaunty dawn
junior robin
business casual marines 
floral herald
Do the dkok really have 10 platoons to a company???
junior robin
really wish we got a closer look on the 3rd tank left middle row that seem to have a 12-linked autocannon array
pastel rampart
Do the dkok really have 10 platoons to a company???
Isn't that standard IG army composition?
Lore-wise not game-wise, hah.
floral herald
It's unusually large but not like insanely large
pastel rampart
At full strength an infantry company will consist of ten infantry platoons and one heavy weapons platoons, led by a company HQ and include a varying number of Grenadier squads mounted on mechanized transports, for a total of over seven hundred Guardsmen.
floral herald
Huh
I guess huge unwieldy companies are super in character for them
But I sure don't envy their command staff haha
Company the size of a battalion
pastel rampart
pine matrix
It's unusually large but not like *insanely* large
Heavy weapon squads are directly under command hq? Seems strange, would have thought they'd just be parallel to infantry squads
floral herald
Usually there's a "heavy weapons platoon" in a company irl but I guess the IG just usually farm them out to infantry platoons anyway
junior summit
But I sure don't envy their command staff haha
it's a lot closer to WW1 composition than ww2 iirc
err
okay a quick google indicates that a french company might be 250 people so idk
given the high attrition rate of the DKs maybe half the line is reserve
floral herald
I mean it seems relatively straightforward to me - the DKOK run light on officers because they don't execute complex maneuvers
junior summit
yeah that's what I was thinking
unreal cosmos
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61NKQY+1d7L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg I wanna put some Rogue Trader style armor graffiti on my 30k Ultras and it hit me I could replicate this one pauldron at a time
past sphinx
odd bit of lore but i dont think the imperium as thermals
in the Cain books its mentioned that their an odd bit of tech that the inquisitor has seen them in tau tanks but doesnt refrence any in the imperium
witch would be an odd thing to leave out
short of astartes i think i believe they have something similar
atleast traditional thermal sights like today
brittle salmon
They do have thermals, it's called Preysense
Referenced in Necromunda and the FFG TTRPGs
W&G also describes it
sinful merlin
ye, you can get goggles or weapon scopes with it in the ffg games
past sphinx
i wonder if instead their using something enterly different to get the same effect
past sphinx
Admech going the entrely long way around to get to the same solution is very on brand
like sensing the electromagnetic aura the body produces
brittle salmon
Maledictum mentions them, but uh, as part of a psychic power that sees "you can see heat emissions as though wearing Preysense goggles"
(the book does not have preysense goggles)
past sphinx
interesting
brittle salmon
brittle salmon
God that is a while ago
sinful merlin
"relatively simple devices" 🤔
past sphinx
very different setting back then
i have been doing this hobby longer than some people who are starting it have been alive
oof
big oof
past sphinx
"relatively simple devices" 🤔
from tech heresy to hive scum equipment in 20 years
good for them
sinful merlin
they're Rare availability in RT there and then DH2e has them as Very Rare
of course I'm playing a skitarii in my RT game so I just got it built into my eyes :)
past sphinx
the captain has infinite money and he couldnt grease a few palms to get you a preists collar? shame on him
sinful merlin
what's a priests collar? 😓
sinful merlin
oh I thought you were talking about some 40k gear or something
past sphinx
you know im not sure if tech preists have a symbol of them being in the clergy
beyond being walking horrors of course
but theres loads of walking horrors in the imperium
plucky token
i think for actual tech priests it's their robes? unsure
past sphinx
idk a woman turned herself into a floating metal disk
granted that covers the "simply be incredibly machine"
sinful merlin
for my character she just has a few bits of jewelry shaped like the mechanicum cog 😄
then just some weird "she's talking to her plasma gun again" (before it rolls poorly and jams again when overcharging it)
she's from a very unorthodox forge world we homebrewed up
past sphinx
if yer not overchargin yer underchargin
sinful merlin
she's absolutely cursed, I think all but two times so far when she's overcharged and weapon tech talented her plasma gun it rolled >90 😩
sinful merlin
she has one and a power sword for closer engagements, you will never guess what happened during our last combat where she tried to shoot the pistol
pastel rampart
floral herald
The imperium having thermals in general doesn’t mean that they don’t have tanks without them
past sphinx
some of those russes are lucky to have glass in the sights
brittle salmon
The imperium having thermals in general doesn’t mean that they don’t have tanks ...
True
junior summit
you know im not sure if tech preists have a symbol of them being in the clergy
the robes and the axe usualyl
floral herald
Isn’t it the skull cog symbol for the Admech?
floral herald
No I mean like this
floral herald
It's not universal but I think of it as being a kind of badge of office
lofty warren
do techmarines get the same thing
i feel like they do in my mind but that might be hallucinated
past sphinx
omnissian axe is funnily enough the worst power weapon in DH iirc
junior summit
i feel like they do in my mind but that might be hallucinated
iirc yes but they usually paint their armor red to show allegience to mars
also they carry omnissian axes
floral herald
Techmarines often have the same symbol, its honestly more consistent on them
lofty warren
yeah i associate it very much with techmarines
the priumaris one needs more mechadendrites
floral herald
I wouldn't mind a primaris techmarine with a full servo harness yeah
mental birch
pulsar cairn
only way death guard gets new marines is by corrupting fully grown ones right?
no way they can raise a recruit from a young age 
the others already have a hard time doing that
mental birch
pulsar cairn
our enemies hide in metal BOXES
floral herald
no way they can raise a recruit from a young age <:vicksyLUL:1059517071672746005...
The details aren’t specified but the DG apparently have a really strong recruitment arm still
So they’re making new space marines somehow
mental birch
OH!
This terain is entirely modular
and the wall and doors are the same length exactly
hehehe
past sphinx
You get yourself some zone mortalis gubbins and you've got something cooking
mental birch
You get yourself some zone mortalis gubbins and you've got something cooking
current design I put together
to be cheap
to cut
CUrrent silly plan is to make DOOM style wallpapers
hahah
sprites as wall textures printed out and glued
past sphinx
There's a few sets of ZM gubbin stls that ain't hard to find,
pulsar cairn
So they’re making new space marines somehow
EXCUSE ME 
past sphinx
EXCUSE ME <:vicksyBork:996566504311099533>
Fabius bile has the grindset mindset my friend
mental birch
Fabulous Grill
pulsar cairn
if fabulous bill is involved i say it makes sense
mental birch
There's a few sets of ZM gubbin stls that ain't hard to find,
Fair, but I'm trying for
pulsar cairn
but he cant be the sole reason
mental birch
like minimum product if that makes sense
pulsar cairn
i doubt that the DG is the only client bill has
past sphinx
like minimum product if that makes sense
Icic, I'm working on some ttcombat myself
mental birch
nicee
floral herald
but he cant be the sole reason
He’s not the DG just still have apothecaries and such
All the major legions can still produce space marines one way or another
unreal cosmos
yeah there's nothing stopping them from just conscripting folks on planets they raid/conquer
still got geneseed and everything, though I assume the process is messier
pulsar cairn
they must be miracle workers
unreal cosmos
I'm a little confused about what the issue would be
tired cairn
They just need to accept nurgle's gifts
I assume infecting them and then saving them is a loyalty exercise they use
Do the thousand sons make more sand men? Or just put the sand back into the armor?
floral herald
I think they can just use magic to rebuild the armor
There's also these guys who basically got Rubric'd
tired cairn
began to work in secret to break the bonds between their Primarch Magnus the Red and the Chaos God Tzeentch.
Though they toiled in secret for many Terran years, their hidden machinations were eventually discovered by the Daemon Primarch, who punished the Blades of Magnus most severely.
???
floral herald
Which part is the confusing part haha
I'm not sure of Magnus went against them because of wanting to keep working with tzeentch or just because he keeps the legion on a very short leash and doesn't like people going behind his back
naive abyss
I think that depends on which shard it is lol
tired cairn
Which part is the confusing part haha
It seems like him being an idiot. Though later on it's a bit more balanced of a situation
Also man, if he doesn't like people doing their own machinations, he sure picked the wrong god to sign up with
pastel rampart
He probably didn't like the idea of his own troops thinking they know better than him on what's best for him.
floral herald
Yeah, especially since the Tsons are one of the smallest legions and legions fracturing is a real problem and already happened to the World Eaters and Emperor's Children
unreal cosmos
Looks good!
naive abyss
i respect the chosen factions lol
this is also ironically i think the first time ive seen a kin next to the new cadians lol
storm schooner
Deathmarks are pretty awkard to make look cool
they've got pretty jank connections
naive abyss
ngl this cover art cconfused me for several seconds lol
out here like "wait why are we getting traitor ferrus"
alpine quarry
this is also ironically i think the first time ive seen a kin next to the new ca...
those are minis of the month that my friend had unpainted and unassembled so he sent them to me
I actually hate the votanns so much
they are boooring
alpine quarry
https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-fantasy-dwarf-grudge-simpsons-gif-20525681
i think they arent dwarfy enough, but also have nothing going for them besides being dwarves Т.Т
hence why i am sad that demiurgs got retconned to be votanns
soft willow
I like the NASA Dwarves.
alpine quarry
They look very cool with closed helmets!
Like hell yeah
But then there are guys that are just like
vikings in space
but like
naive abyss
tbh they look like what space fantasy dorfs would be imo
alpine quarry
boring
naive abyss
they really arent vikings lol
alpine quarry
tbh they look like what space fantasy dorfs would be imo
Yeahhh but there couldve been more done to them
naive abyss
in allot of ways theyre more celtic than anything
alpine quarry
in allot of ways theyre more celtic than anything
now that i look at it, yeah, thats true
those are very celtic patterns, but still
not really
engaging
idk
soft willow
It's not for you.
alpine quarry
I am just a big dwarf fan and those are kinda boring generally
yeahhh
not for me xd
Not arguing with that
soft willow
Maybe the codex will add some stuff that has more umph.
naive abyss
i mean i like how they are like very obviously distinct from every other faction but also more like logically look like what the old lore was of derived from humans
soft willow
When we get one in 10th.
naive abyss
tbh the one big flavor thing i want is that weird carnyx banner in that one piece of art
just cuz it looks cool
also shield and axe infantry
i beg
id kill for plasma axe and shield core infantry
alpine quarry
If i think of a space fantasy dwarves that i liked a lot and arent from like 90s, i think of aow planetfall
The dvar
naive abyss
i like those but ngl those are very similar to votann but just aggressively russian
alpine quarry
I think they a bit more distinct, but I think the best bits of votanns look very dvary
soft willow
What are the best bits in your opinion?
alpine quarry
I really like the closed helmets and masks that some of the minis have going for them
soft willow
So you like the big Votann faces and such?
naive abyss
i crave those funky banners in this art lol
theyd be cool as like weird aura shield generators
or like it can be a shield or some sorta weird anti psyker aura
like as an alt option
so it helps bring in more of the anti magic dwarf vibes
naive abyss
iron kin are great
alpine quarry
Yeah!
soft willow
Ironkin are very fun.
alpine quarry
And this guy is nice
soft willow
or like it can be a shield or some sorta weird anti psyker aura
Anti-deepstrike bubble
naive abyss
lol
alpine quarry
but then they are helmetless and i am kinda bored again
Doesnt really matter, i am not going to gatekeep peeps from playing funny space dwarves xd
naive abyss
i love that head lol
and that votann heralded true co ed squads
like that head is very much them showing love to the old squats imo
floral herald
and that votann heralded true co ed squads
I don’t know about that, guardians and kabalites have been around for a while
naive abyss
and while im grumpy about the lack of big beards i appreciate it not being a thing more or less due to like them being pragmatic space dorfs
naive abyss
I don’t know about that, guardians and kabalites have been around for a while
guardians werent coed on sculpt till the update
kabalites ill grant
jaunty dawn
wych cults in general
naive abyss
i only said that due to like guard getting coed shortly after
but also i more mean like coed and we dont need boob plate for it to be coed
if that makes sense
floral herald
guardians werent coed on sculpt till the update
Yeah they were
floral herald
At least as far back as 4e
naive abyss
fair
jaunty dawn
floral herald
Yeah that’s totally fair haha
jaunty dawn
soft willow
The Eldar co-ed squads go as far back as 3rd.
jaunty dawn
'98!
soft willow
I remember when those were new. 🧓
junior robin
I wonder whats up with the armpit tubes 🤔
soft willow
Well yeah you reprocess it to get the drugs back out.
jaunty dawn
oh yeah that makes sense
soft willow
Can't waste good drugs.
naive abyss
gamer wych bath water
dont ask how they make their beer
man im so gonna grab belthano to make an orion proxy eventually
i do really like that design
jaunty dawn
gsc are kinda weirdly male dominated
naive abyss
are they?
jaunty dawn
I mean its hard to say with the genestealery ones
naive abyss
i sorta assumed the main squad is like just no difference in armor
jaunty dawn
but in terms of more humanoid models pretty much just the jackals
naive abyss
and theres several hero model ladies
jaunty dawn
there are yeah
naive abyss
cuz the magus and the alphus exist
soft willow
Who's the bomber one? She's a lady.
naive abyss
oh her too
jaunty dawn
but its 3/9
naive abyss
shes great
soft willow
Yeah they're tilted towards men and abberations.
naive abyss
like i sorta always assumed some of these blorbos were ladies lol
soft willow
Most of the factions still tilt male.
naive abyss
def
jaunty dawn
the achilles ridgerunner crew is coed
naive abyss
ironically i think the most like coed overall these days are like lov and guard
i think
soft willow
Kill Team squads tend to be more egalitarian.
Euclidean Starstriders are about half and half.
jaunty dawn
but not the goliath afaict. definitely a big difference between the 7th wave and the 8th wave
soft willow
ironically i think the most like coed overall these days are like lov and guard
Eldar too tend to be a decent mix.
jaunty dawn
like some of these are more ambiguous but like talking in terms of what the sculptor's intention seems to be
naive abyss
Eldar too tend to be a decent mix.
true but the aspects sorat skew it i feel
soft willow
Yeah the women in GSC are very clearly women, so I don't think any of the squads are really clearly co-ed.
Also the "blood brothers' thing where you can bring Guard units is gendered masculine.
jaunty dawn
honestly just seems especially weird for gsc to me cause like
soft willow
Leaders are also called Patriarchs even though Genestealers don't have a gender near as I can tell?
jaunty dawn
they're bio juiced to various degrees and are just also a popular revolution in general
naive abyss
def
jaunty dawn
hopefully newer models continue to address the balance
the new chaos cultists are much more equal
naive abyss
mm mm
this reminds me how much i love the like uhhh i forget the names of them but the like possessed cultist daemon blobs
alpine quarry
on topic of what i did today tho, heres a despotek i kitbashed xd
naive abyss
specifically the torments
jaunty dawn
front champion lady is one of my favourite models in general
naive abyss
the black stone cultists are good
jaunty dawn
although this is just making me upset again that I failed to get ashes of faith haha
alpine quarry
i had to cut off his arms and made a mistake of not cutting away one of those connector balls that immortal arms have, so one arm was protruding very had but i covered it up with a scarab 
alpine quarry
i want to say that the scarab is how the cryptek communicates with xeir despotek when the despotek is crawling through ghostwind or smh like that
alpine quarry
i had this disgusting tactic in the actual killteam game in which i deployed the despotek through hyperspace using the upgrade that i had in our specops
you are chilling, and then this dude pops in out of thin air and commands himself to shoot better, then shoots you on 2+ with rerolls
floral herald
front champion lady is one of my favourite models in general
Those cultists are in general some of my favorite models
alpine quarry
the black stone cultists are good
blackstone models in general are fucking amazing
i adore every single one
alpine quarry
i had this disgusting tactic in the actual killteam game in which i deployed the...
there was a match where the guy popped in
took a shot
killed a model
cryptek activates
command
despotek shoots again
takes out another model
new round
despotek shoots
takes out a model
he killed 4 models of tau pathfinders
i think including the leader
sinful merlin
front champion lady is one of my favourite models in general
I love this kit, I've been meaning to grab it to turn the heavy stubber lady into a Sgt Harker and the rest into some ragtag guardsmen
also regarding the earlier topic, the new imperial guard kits are pretty good about this and give you nearly twice as many heads as you'd need with half being female and half being male 😄
unreal cosmos
https://tortuga-gamestable.top/index.php?route=product/product&path=82_267&product_id=3760 ooooh this is gnarly
dense sedge
specifically the torments
those are some of my favorite models in all of 40k
I don't like a lot of the csm line, but I like the cultist models like the Dark Commune
cloud flicker
Spoilers for Scavengers Reign:
||I did not expect the fucking AdMech to appear in the end||
Good show plz watch
onyx elm
Working on my W&G adventure for a PbP game. I plan to divide it into three parts with two branching paths, random events, random events, and a couple of set pieces.
Writing it all down and organizing it this way has helped a lot and let me focus on trying to make sound all Warhammer-y
mental birch
Stickers are the way forward
glossy vapor
Question: Im a big fan of no-nonsense factions, Ones that both fight in the way that they find most practical (by 40k standards). and who on a larger scale, work towards their goal and run themselves in such a way where they are focused on their mission and dont let anger, pride, drama, or whims get in their way. which factions best fit that bill? I already have a list forming in my head but i want to get peoples opinions.
desert jay
Tyranids are probably the straightest answer by dint of not having individual egos. Of those with actual personality, Tau come closest
glossy vapor
Yeah those where ones i was coming up with, for imperium i think it would be like, ultramarines and maybe white scars and raven guard?
upper canopy
Question: Im a big fan of no-nonsense factions, Ones that both fight in the way ...
Tau, Tyranids, Raptors
Eldar to an extent
Almost no Marines have practicality as a FIRST concern.
Iron Warriors kinda
glossy vapor
i have personal beef with iron warriors becuase the whole vibe ive gotten from them is "their leader is a seething asshole but at least he's compenent and focused" but compentent leaders dont kill 10% of their own troops because their angy.
upper canopy
Perturabo isn't the leader anymore really
Most CSM bounce around doing their own thing and don't really bother with the big guys of chaos unless specifically summoned
If you want Marines with the vibe you're looking for though you want the Raptors
Who are STILL very "I won't do a job if it's beneath me" arrogant
quaint compass
And in all things, you can take a faction and make Your Dudes™️ instead of using a premade faction/sub-faction
rocky shale
Question: Im a big fan of no-nonsense factions, Ones that both fight in the way ...
Craftworld Eldar are in a funky place with regard to this because farseers let them just kinda know if doing something is worth it in the first place.
Though their fighting styles have a bit of nonsense to them because conceptually, aspect warriors (and harlequins) are kinda silly if not still extremely terrifying in lore
Nids are kinda the most straightforward answer because they cant have lore that makes them look dumb if they dont get lore 
thin ibex
Almost no Marines have practicality as a FIRST concern.
Possibly the Raptors or Retributors iirc
thin ibex
Question: Im a big fan of no-nonsense factions, Ones that both fight in the way ...
One no one had mentioned thus far is the Leagues of Votann. They certainly still have a great deal of pride and traditionalism, but they are very much pragmatists as well. Depending on which subfaction you go with, this trait is more or less pronounced
I think also elements of the Mechanicus could be seen to work the way you want, but not the overall faction
Maybe an honorable mention can go to the Tempestus Scions who are effectively special forces guys for the 40k humans
unreal cosmos
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MfatUc-yd83lTG4l1PLdhWh8xVjnBnvYRu1X_1BMpbk/edit?usp=sharing managed to hammer out a summary of my Horus Heresy army lore, at least as it stands now. still haven't read any of the novels so things might change after I do.
naive abyss
Question: Im a big fan of no-nonsense factions, Ones that both fight in the way ...
Leagues of votann
Like they are noted as aggressively pragmatic in this regard
floral herald
Yeah those where ones i was coming up with, for imperium i think it would be lik...
For space marines it’s probably the Raptors
unreal cosmos
The Red Corsairs can be pretty pragmatic by Chaos standards but it depends. They have a lot of internal power struggles.
onyx elm
For space marines it’s probably the Raptors
Too practical for most other chapters.
soft willow
I second LoV as a practical faction. Though I would say pick your faction based on liking the models, you can make your own pragmatic Chapter/Craftworld/Warband/etc. but you can’t change the core look.
floral herald
That is a good point yeah
onyx elm
You'd think it would be the Necrons as being the most practical, but they've changed from The Borg into catty dynasties playing politics on each other. Which is great, honestly.
floral herald
The necrons were always sort impractical since they were so unknown
pastel rampart
Not to say you couldn't have an practical dynasty fit somewhere in there, they'd just probably be considered a bunch of stuck-up nerds with no imagination by the other dynasties.
Which would make for a fun dynamic.
thin ibex
oper8ter necrons is a vibe i could imagine being a fun diversion
pastel rampart
They were "horde" mostly because you had to spam as many warrior units as you could or else your army Phased Out.
thin ibex
as far as how necrons play rn, they're not like super hordy as far as i know
floral herald
Jeez 18 ppm?
pastel rampart
So you'd see like 4 troop choices of max warriors because that was the only real way to play.
jaunty dawn
they had like 7-8 units and two of them were the c'tan
floral herald
There was also “2 min size warriors squads which hide and then you spam as many Destroyers as possible”
pastel rampart
That too.
Realistically Necron armies had like...4 units. Warriors, destroyers, monolith, lord on destroyer.
Sometimes you'd see a C'tan but by and large it was the above.
jaunty dawn
space marines were 15ppm
but we'll be back was on a 4+ and still worked if you wiped the squad as long as another squad was nearby
pastel rampart
Within 6", yeah
Instant death attacks circumvented it unless within range of an orb of resurrection.
pastel rampart
Face done.
jaunty dawn
niiice
pastel rampart
Still got more work to do.
Gotta smooth out the joins where those foreclaws are, and figure out some sort of weapon for the end there.
Might go with a triple-headed flail.
Tho someone suggested a very big rock which is also a fair choice.
lofty warren
Triple headed flail but the flail ends are just big rocks
pastel rampart
tired cairn
lmao
quaint compass
The least assembled model
tired cairn
Though I swear super glue only glues quickly when I don't want it to glue two things
unreal cosmos
Face done.
fuckin gnarly!
I keep on surprising myself with my new icon like "oo who's this"
floral herald
mood
naive abyss
pulsar cairn
considering this as a pfp
upper canopy
Who are the raptors?
Raptors are a chapter of Marines that basically just fight as normal spec-ops units and eschew the knight/monastic theming and tactics
They prefer practical deployments and tactics and don't really go for pomp and circumstance.
Raven Guard descended allegedly
lofty warren
it is also the name of chaos assault infantry
because GW is cursed to use every name at least twice
upper canopy
dense sedge
because GW is cursed to use every name at least twice
Abominations and abominant
zinc field
Paladin knight titans or Paladin knights from titan
pastel rampart
Went to the LGS and they had most of a Thundertusk in the bitz bin. Mine for $20.
No idea what I'm gonna do with it 
zinc field
There's also Crusaders (the priests), Crusaders (the squad), Crusader (the knight), Crusader (the land raider), and the X Crusader Chapter (Black, Dark, Iron, and Argent flavors)
naive abyss
ngl im amused deeply by the marine having what looks like a averland sun symbol on that lil shoulder decoration
pastel rampart
"The Sunsetters" would be a neat SM chapter.
dense sedge
what are you guys experience with balefull visage? I just got some but on the tests I was doing with some spare bits it feels splotchy and overtlylight. Instead of the purplish grey that the paint looks like it barely shows at all, even without watering it down with h2o or contrast medium
pastel rampart
unreal cosmos
KT idea: Fallen(/Risen?) with specialists based on the defunct Dark Angels Wings
have a Firewing Seeker in there, a Dreadwing guy with one of those fucking plasma flamers
floral herald
I think this might be a peak CSM art for me
rocky shale
Its so good it makes me want to play csm until I look at real CSM models
floral herald
Now that most of the range has been updated they're pretty sick imo
You do... have to paint all that though
upper canopy
Them trying to hit that one Archaeon
rocky shale
You do... have to paint all that though
I picked up the Eldritch Omens box for the aledari but now I have some CSM models too and all that trim scares me
past sphinx
I think this might be a peak CSM art for me
thats heavily discounting the axe head man from the WE book
dudes having a time
granted its just in a CSM book not of CSM
floral herald
Yeah that one is great
dense sedge
I wish we had more freaky chaos guys, it feels like nurgle’s the only one who gets them these days
Especially in age of sigmar
long void
They have a box of skulls.
Why not a box of mutations and robotics?
glossy vapor
looking at tau more, and i sort of wish that like, instead of t'au (the species) making up most of the actual troops (breacher teams, fireblades, pathfinders) instead the fire caste are almost all in the suits while various auxiliary species make up a variety of infantry units (and while your at it let them get the cool armor and hemets and the fire warriors get, solely because i think they look way better than the basic brown and green all the kroot wear).
pulsar cairn
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/722865032391819305/1173446404002283540/im...
wait till they see the cherubs
pine matrix
pulsar cairn
genome is a green skull now
unreal cosmos
yeah
pulsar cairn
i like
thin ibex
looking at tau more, and i sort of wish that like, instead of t'au (the species)...
Kroot don't got to wear brown and green fwiw
naive abyss
I actually think that's an axe head lady lol
pastel rampart
For Khorne there is no gender, only MURDER
naive abyss
Also I find it funny than csm and we both are more coed range wise than loyalist marines lol
naive abyss
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/13/court-is-in-session-all-rise-for-...
Ngl I appreciate the idea of the judge wig made of intestines but it sorta also looks derpy lol
Gives me like old flayed one energy lol
naive abyss
Also huh
I think gormayne is a named character
And the name is also a joke I think lol
Cuz it's like gore mane
And sounds like gourmand
naive abyss
i appreciate their being a chart Ngl
Which Idk if the other games have this
If they don't it's a nice qol
jaunty dawn
all the ones that use that wound system or a variation of it use a chart
namely horus heresy
naive abyss
Noted lol
jaunty dawn
I think probably the lotr game
naive abyss
Just I remember when I watched like 40k games they always seem to be doing a like formula
Instead of like their being a chart lol
jaunty dawn
I mean either way if you wanna do it quickly mid game it's usually gonna be faster to learn it relatively and not consult a chart but that really depends on how you think
uh one big issue with making a chart for modern 40k would be like. strength goes up to 32 or whatever
would looks something like this tho
naive abyss
Horrid lol
naive abyss
I mean either way if you wanna do it quickly mid game it's usually gonna be fast...
Charts definitely easier for my brain lol
naive abyss
Mm mm
Ngl old world amusingly seems fun to me because it has more going on even with just movement
Which I can appreciate
floral herald
would looks something like this tho
This is a pretty good argument against the chart haha
naive abyss
I mean I feel that's more a statement on the inflation of toughness in 40k not even still I'd find that chart easier lol
pastel rampart
So far TOW isn't really changing the WHFB ruleset much.
floral herald
Eh, having more toughness and strength values is a good thing
jaunty dawn
if only they used more of the strength values xP
topaz elk
I'd simply roll 6s
floral herald
if only they used more of the strength values xP
Yeah it’s sort of annoying how few really high strength weapons there are
topaz elk
also yah I think GW just kinda, wanted the games durability to go up maybe a bit to much
floral herald
I mean less from a meta thing and more just unused design space
topaz elk
yah true
past sphinx
Never been much of a fan of the concept of everything on the board necessarily being able to interact with each other
Anti-tank lasguns never sat right
floral herald
I don't think I said that
topaz elk
Yah the complaints being said aren’t like
Infantry guns aren’t strong enough
It’s there’s not enough weapons for the high toughness stuff
pulsar cairn
ya know those custodes that just start protecting random dudes cause that person will somehow benefit the imperium in the future?
upper canopy
I'm gonna be str 16 when I assault you for this
past sphinx
My comment was entirely unrelated
Simply commenting on the strength toughness system as a whole
junior summit
I mean, even at its worst you were looking at lasguns doing like, a hundreth of a wound expected to anything with decent armor
it was only stuff like gauss autoglance
floral herald
Hammer of the Emperor was kind of dumb
But also its pretty much the only time that happened with lasguns
junior summit
or that yeah
like yes technically a lasgun has a 1 in 9999 chance to wound a knight or whatever but realistically speaking you can have an entire platoon of guardsmen shoot twice and statistically it won't do anything
ebon forge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH35aStgoeU&ab_channel=PancreasNoWork
Good lizards that have pet dinos
thin ibex
i actually prefer the increase in durability
i have no ounce of pining
for the hyper lethality of 8th and 9th
naive abyss
What does aos look like in this regard if anyone knows?
brittle salmon
Both better and worse in ways - AoS has generally lower damage values, but has 9e style bracketing for large units, and more importantly it has damage overflow
So a 1d6+1 damage attack into 1 wound guys is killing that many models on a failed save
naive abyss
Vibe tbh
brittle salmon
I personally dislike it a lot and it's one of the reasons I avoid AoS
It removes a good chunk of target priority granularity imo
Big damage weapons are just good into everything
naive abyss
Target priority is for nerds. Lemme big smack a glob of gobos lol
brittle salmon
That feels very dismissive of my opinion but sure
lofty warren
Warhammer having high lethality always confused me because its squad based style makes it ideal for like
Slow whittling down
Things get worse as they take more damage
Except most single model units
I think some vehicles get worse with damage though, no?
floral herald
Now its all of them I think
Though there's a few large models which get more dangerous at high damage not less
lofty warren
Who doesnt love a rage mechanic tbh
floral herald
(Though I don't think any of those are vehicles)
lofty warren
Anyways the fact that you can make gains even if you dont outright kill a unit seems to lean towards less lethal more target-prioritization gameplay
thin ibex
if theres one thing i wished for, its that i do kinda wish the vehicle toughness went up but kept 3 stage degredation
rather than the easier to understand and apply "-1 to hit at half wounds or less"
because then you feel like you can reduce vehicle and monster lethality with intention without needing to destroy em
I do also kinda wish that vehicle modles stayed on the field after being destroyed, but i also get why that wouldn't be the case
floral herald
The older vehicle debuff stuff was better IMO but has the major downside of the rest of the rules for vehicle damage in 40k
naive abyss
That feels very dismissive of my opinion but sure
Apologies. That was mostly just a in jest sorta thing. I do get your issues with it tbh. I just ultimately find the idea of a giant mushing a bunch of goblins funny.
brittle salmon
All good, that's fair lol
desert jay
like yes *technically* a lasgun has a 1 in 9999 chance to wound a knight or what...
Assuming 4+ to hit and 6+ wound and 2+ and 6+++ saves, it’s 1:86.4
topaz elk
How many wounds do knights have?
desert jay
So 40 shots per platoon, two shooting phases give a decent chance of taking 1 wound off
Like a whole bunch
floral herald
How many wounds do knights have?
~18
desert jay
Gosh
floral herald
In practical terms the game will end before the lasguns kill a knight
topaz elk
IC
Though, assuming such math is accurate to lore (I know it’s not but still)
A wall of lasguns could destroy a charging knight
floral herald
Oh? I thought it was 18 for questoris and more for the really heavy ones
soft willow
Double checked the app it's more than I thought.
22 on a questoris, though they only have a 3+ 5++ and 6+++
soft willow
Perhaps they used to be less?
soft willow
In 9th they were 22 as well, because Questor Mechanicus brought them up to 24.
It could be from 8th.
But yeah, without help or incredible luck Lasguns ain't doing any meaningful damage to a Knight.
desert jay
Oh at 3+ yeah twice as many wounds at 1:43.2, one squad with 40 shots probably (but not definitely) takes a wound off
Just good luck doing that 22 times
soft willow
Cerastus knights have the same profile but with 24 wounds, and Dominus knights have 25, T13 and the 2+ save making it so nobody bothers shooting at them most of the time.
desert jay
But also AIUI in the horde (any faction) vs knight matchup, you pick off the armigers and tarpit the questoris off the objectives, it’s not fun but it’s a winning strat
soft willow
Yeah if you keep the armigers down and off objectives you'll generally do better.
OC 8 and T10 makes armigers pretty credible objective holders.
Armigers are half as many wounds but still don't really die to lasgun fire.
T10, 12W, 3+ 5++ 6+++ means the math is roughly the same for how much gets through.
Just that armigers can't afford to lose a few wounds as much as a big knight can.
desert jay
Oh vs low-strength things they’re actually tougher per point, hah
soft willow
They fold a lot faster to any real anti-tank weapon though.
desert jay
I think it only matters at… shit, just S6 and S10-12 and S20-23
soft willow
Current competitive wisdom with Knights is bring a Castellan, six Warglaives and 2-3 Helverins, fill with whatever flavor of Imperial Agents you can afford.
tepid stratus
This is why I prefer the simplicity of AOS sometimes. You can't just swarm a giant with goblins and only expect to lose a handful each turn like guardsmen charging a knight. The giant swinging a d3+3 damage club is gonna kill a bunch of goblins each swing, but in return those goblins can potentially bring down the giant more reliably than guardsmen can kill a knight.
soft willow
I mean generally in 40k guardsmen have more than just lasguns.
tepid stratus
Spamming big models doesn't skew the game so heavily
soft willow
And that 40 shot squad we mathed out is like 100 points vs the 400ish the Knight would be.
tepid stratus
I mean generally in 40k guardsmen have more than just lasguns.
I'm just using a basic guardsmen squad trying to swarm an objective as an example. Like the knight base is big enough to force a guardsmen unit to essentially engage it in melee to have enough models on the objective to hope to contest
soft willow
Yup, but at OC2 they very quickly hold that objective unless the Knight starts killing them.
And the whole time you're getting pounded by a Leman Russ or four.
So that's part of the overall equasion as well.
tepid stratus
Swamping them with more bodies than they can kill is very unfun. It's why I don't like that vehicles and monsters in 40k don't have damage spillover. A chainswords sweep or a knights stomp should squish more than 1 guardsmen. But as long as the guard player can spam 60pt units at the problem the knight player has no hope. Whereas in my AOS example the giant player can potentially wipe the goblin horde off despite only rolling for 8 attacks. And on the flip side the goblins can hurt the giant. Probably not kill it unsupported but they can damage it enough to hinder it's attacks and lower it's OC to give them a chance
tired cairn
Chainsword sweep gets a different profile for antihorde
tepid stratus
The AOS designers already discovered that "just throw more bodies at the problem" is problematic and unfun when 180 zombie lists became normalized and hated
tepid stratus
Chainsword sweep gets a different profile for antihorde
Yeah sure but it's several individual attacks that need to be rolled for and can't kill off a reinforced guardsmen unit
tired cairn
aiui current 40k, the "more bodies than bullets" strat only really saw good success by being an anti-meta pick
Because of the skew to tanks and AT weapons
tepid stratus
A successful chainswords sweep should be killing multiple dudes with heavy successful wound roll, because it's big sweeps. It's not like the knight is swiping 12 times really fast at individual dudes
tired cairn
The multiple rolls is just an abstraction. Like how explosive weapons roll more dice for larger squads
tepid stratus
aiui current 40k, the "more bodies than bullets" strat only really saw good succ...
It being a counter meta pick doesn't change the fact that it feels bad to play and play against
soft willow
I have no problems with horde lists with my Imperial Knight list, let me put it that way.
tepid stratus
The multiple rolls is just an abstraction. Like how explosive weapons roll more ...
I get that it's an abstraction but it's an unnecessary abstraction when their other system proved that damage spillover works and is (IMO at least) faster and easier
soft willow
I don't think it's the problem you think it is.
But sure they could make it easier or faster to play.
tired cairn
It would be less swingy
soft willow
I won't disagree.
tired cairn
Do all weapons have spillover or just some?
tired cairn
But sure they could make it easier or faster to play.
Giving the tyranid swarm detachment the move on losing models was such a mistake lol
tepid stratus
Do all weapons have spillover or just some?
All weapons have spillover in AOS. But keep in mind it's not like every unit can just slot a melta gun in like 40k. Units are more specialized in general in AOS and weapon profiles are fairly unified across a whole squad.
There's also practically no weapons that do more than d6+3 damage and even that's a rarety
There's some d6 and d3+3 weapons but those are relegated to big guns and monsters
Elite infantry are usually damage 2 or 3 weapons, in which case yeah the super human with a massive ap-2 damage 3 hammer probably should squish 3 goblins each swing
Now admittedly the game is far more melee skewed than 40k. So there's a lot more bodies on objectives in general to chew through so damage spillover helps save time over needing to roll 30 successful hit and wound rolls to kill the 30 goblins on an objective