DOTA 2

[viscid tapir]

also, I'm believing in this Spoils of War + LD thing I'm seeing in Tron's game

[cursive wing]

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3278217877

[paper shell]

I don't miss this build on kunka

[viscid tapir]

that's where you're wrong

Rose?! played it recently and it looked very fun

[glossy stratus]

I do miss battlefury Ember

[paper shell]

Im not wrong about not missing it

[viscid trout]

some tips I've learned about LD from guides/yt:
Hold the bear level skill point until it gets low -- when you level the skill he gets resummoned and full HP. This allows you to do crazy harass and dives with the bear in mid.

[gritty sparrow]

At a certain point in every game my friend plays LD the old mans inventory suddenly switches from 6 branches to 6 wraith bands

[steel forge]

this does not actually seem to be true anymore unfortunately

[gritty sparrow]

That does bring up a good point

Look for recent things on LD if you do look up info on them

Cause how the bear works and interacts with spells and items has changed pretty drastically with the "bear has stats and is a hero unit" now

[steel forge]

makes sense

can LD exist in a core role that isn't mid? or does he really need the early levels to be effective

[gritty sparrow]

He was played as a P3 a couple months ago because he was played in TI like that. We've run the LD as p1 a good deal but you ideally want another scaling core or to double down on just running them over

He's largely mid because it is very difficult for one person to deal with the bear

Like, basically impossible for most heroes to deal with you just running it at them for the first 10 minutes of the game

[glossy stratus]

For the first few minutes you can just click it down, but a lot of people don't know that

And he still is a monstrously effective mid, since having two units of damage is pretty decent for last hits and denies, it turns out

But yeah P1 is also common

[steel forge]

I think I'm not understanding that part tbh

like it feels like the games I've played, the mid can kinda just walk off being clicked on by me and the bear, either by just clicking on me back or by walking under tower and hitting my bear with impunity

[glossy stratus]

To be able to click you back, they should have to go through your wave and your bear, you have good range on the old man

And if they click your bear back you're pretty happy, since bear hp is very cheap

(Less so at level 1 bear since 0 armor)

[gritty sparrow]

Unfortunately I can't help with the specifics like that, this all information is from my main duo partner is an LD one trick

[glossy stratus]

There are aggro tricks to poke them under tower with the bear (and it can also just eat a lot of tower hits), but even if they're free to sit under tower, that should cost them a lot of last hits

Since with a bear + druid hit you can outdeny most anyone else

[gritty sparrow]

I know he picks LD and about 8 minutes later I see him hitting their t2s somehow

[glossy stratus]

(SF and the like who can just nuke the wave are the exception)

[steel forge]

I mean fair enough, it's not exactly like I'm losing lanes (which is saying something, I'm an awful mid player atm), but I'm just not really feeling the druid's purported early strength

[glossy stratus]

Last hits are important, if you're denying half the wave it doesn't matter if you never touch the hero, their game is ruined anyway

I know that's what I'm always a lot more worried about when facing an LD than their harass potential

[gritty sparrow]

@olive moon https://youtu.be/TiC8pig6PGE?si=QgAWt5I-wlKEgmoL

[viscid tapir]

<@&877973728997294120> afternoon? evening? late-day (from my perspective) dota happening if anyone wants in.

[reef parcel]

i can join in 10

[viscid tapir]

we will play the bad fighting game

[paper shell]

I’d like to play in game 2 or maybe 3 if that happens

[delicate jungle]

YO DOTA 2 GOT ROLLBACK

[reef parcel]

do you guys have 5?

[viscid tapir]

no

punch is just aronud

[glossy stratus]

I'll try to hop on for game 3, we'll see if Dota actually cooperates though

[reef parcel]

@delicate jungle second gaem starting

[paper shell]

Sorry I was justr getting water

Are we done? Seems like it

[viscid tapir]

i'm dota-ed out for at least the next 15 minutes

probably longer

[gritty sparrow]

I could dota in a bit

[paper shell]

🤔

[gritty sparrow]

I am just in a deadlock game atm

[glossy stratus]

I'd be up for Dotes if we get a stack

[olive moon]

yea i need 2 flame tokens

<@&877973728997294120> looks like we might have enough people to make a stack?

[paper shell]

I'd be maybe interested in like an AD game or something if others were interested

[glossy stratus]

Ooh, silly game modes

[paper shell]

I could also be convinced of a regular game

but would need some extra convincing

[olive moon]

im down for silly modes

[paper shell]

😮

I gotta do a thing rq then I can join for the silly modes

like 5 mins max

Any 5ths for the drafts

[steel forge]

okay very broad dota question: how do you punish the all-core drafts?

like, I'm sure this is just a low rank thing, but if the enemy team just drafts 4 cores with stuns, how do you punish not having actual supports?

[gritty sparrow]

They are likely a very greedy team and won't be able to kill a lot of tanks, or go high ground, or have counters for strong support spells like Chain Frost or Fiend's Grip

[olive moon]

win your lanes, double core lanes almost always suck at laning

snowball them with heros like storm, necro, whatever

if you're a support you can go ward their jungle and yell at your team to defend your wards

[steel forge]

I admittedly wasn't looking too close, I was in a normal lane, but the offlane was like, wk + slardar, and they just chain killed the pos 1 and 5

[olive moon]

thats noty meant to happen

unless you're like spec aa

[steel forge]

I guess like, I don't understand how that's not supposed to happen

[gritty sparrow]

That actually isn't that uncommon a lane

[olive moon]

what were they playing against

[steel forge]

it was... jak faceless

[gritty sparrow]

Er

[olive moon]

yeah the safelane is supposed to body them

[gritty sparrow]

Wait

I am dumb

By you wk you main wraith king don't you

[steel forge]

yes

[gritty sparrow]

I looked at that and thought "Yeah, Wukong"

[steel forge]

oh, no that would kinda make sense

(it was slardar 4)

[steel forge]

I guess my safelane is just worse than my offlane is fair enough as a reason

[gritty sparrow]

Jakiro should just be able to harass a slardar support out pretty well because slardar actually wants a lot of money but

I can easily imagine people being bad at spacing and getting stunned for 5 seconds straight by them

And then instantly tping back and doing that again

[steel forge]

Yeah I mean, not having the strongest fundamentals is an entirely reasonable reason to lose lane, I just wasn't sure if it was some kind of draft issue or if there was a trick I needed to know

[gritty sparrow]

You are right in that it can be a low rank thing, the reasons for the positions becomes more defined the better at the game you end up being, but cheese like just picking 5 cores works in part because one of the main defining things you can use to gauge the difference between high and low rank games is time

Average game time goes down the better you are

Even if they didn't win that lane games can go on long enough that it doesn't matter much

[steel forge]

it was kinda the opposite problem in this one, they just snowballed super hard and won at 27 minutes

like, we went even enough top, lost mid, lost bot super hard, and then there were basically just 4 full strength and farm cores hitting our towers

I've certainly run into the 60 minute greedy draft game where they just win because they were given time though

[viscid tapir]

see: ability draft game 2

[steel forge]

yeah lol

[viscid tapir]

"the reason we lost is like what you said 10 minutes ago, that we didn't win 20 minutes ago"

perfect quote

[gritty sparrow]

I won a game just yesterday because of a single dumb play where the team that was very far ahead could have just won

But the enemy core with aegis dove past t4s to try to kill hoodwink

And died

And then they didn't have enough to end

And then we won 6 minutes later

Just end the game challenge

Just hit the enemy buildings

[viscid tapir]

looks around worryingly

[steel forge]

surely nobody here would ever do that

[paper shell]

Never ever

[gritty sparrow]

Don't worry you couldn't biff it as much as they did

It was a 5 stack that we won the previous game against, then when they were winning this one they were doing all the toxic stuff

Pausing on kill, question marking when someone got away, a number of ezs in chat

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> perhaps?

[steel forge]

a true classic

[gritty sparrow]

At the end I basically just

Said this verbatim to them https://youtu.be/87kmGzDObzY?si=i61gSH3sSmybmypw&t=17

[steel forge]

I did tip the slark who I lifted into fountain while they were trying to fountain farm us

[delicate jungle]

games?

[paper shell]

I could maybe play dota in a bit

[delicate jungle]

ye

[paper shell]

need to finish up what im doing

[gritty sparrow]

I am deadlocking

[delicate jungle]

well

play a game thats actually finished (?)

[gritty sparrow]

One way or another I am caught in the Valve vortex

[paper shell]

🤔

[delicate jungle]

yeah thats part of the joke

[glossy stratus]

I could Dota in... either like 15 mimutes or like an hour and a half

Need to check on some stuff then I'll know

Okay, yeah, I could do one Dota now

[delicate jungle]

ok

<@&877973728997294120> any more for dota?

[paper shell]

Seems like at most it would be the 3 of us RN

[delicate jungle]

hrrrm

[steel forge]

yeah I'm unfortunately not really up for it atm

[delicate jungle]

join vc at least, more people may show up

[paper shell]

Oh uh sure

[glossy stratus]

A suggestion for your consideration: We could Dive Into The Pits

And play Single Draft

[steel forge]

I mean

tempting

however it seems as if you have obtained an ashley

[glossy stratus]

We have

[paper shell]

I regret adding tron to my guild

[steel forge]

there's like 3 of those contract

s

[glossy stratus]

So that's where all of those went

I live in a late timezone and can't boot until the afternoons

I have not seen an assists contract in 97 years

[viscid trout]

It's truly harrowing

(/s)

[cursive wing]

<@&877973728997294120> need +1

[olive moon]

yeah

[paper shell]

You're one of the 4

[glossy stratus]

Dota ate my high score D:

[paper shell]

New Jenkins video on ember spirit 3

Seems interesting

It also mentioned that blocking the enemies creeps on dire is an effective strategy as it cause the wave to crash under tower

[steel forge]

I saw the video as well, but I don’t think I understand how you block the enemy creeps without them attacking you

[paper shell]

Because of reasons

Creeps don’t aggro you before they crash for the first time

This prevents various cheese things that used to be possible

[steel forge]

I see

[viscid trout]

lol which one of these are you

[noble tusk]

the sad one

😔

[steel forge]

neither lmao

[paper shell]

I believe in the lane

[viscid trout]

if they don't win by 50

then you win

EZPZ

[paper shell]

Man tron, your game is just 5 cores vs 5 cores

[steel forge]

tusk is sorta a support

but uh, yeah, it sure was

es is also like, played as a support

[paper shell]

Your team did at least have "supports"

[paper shell]

I see you also won this game, very hard

[steel forge]

after some argument they conceded to put doom 3

[paper shell]

whew

I see you are now a tiny mid player

[steel forge]

tiny feels broken

everything he does does so much damage and he's also very tanky

[paper shell]

I believe he's like the most contested hero in pro games rn?

[steel forge]

Id believe it

[paper shell]

Looking at

[steel forge]

the only part of the hero that feels bad at all is his mana pool and even then

[paper shell]

yup

[steel forge]

huh, suprised to see that quick wit ds is up there

it is the more fun facet but I figured heart of battle was secretly better

[paper shell]

This is like a weird subset of data

from dotabuff specifically

[viscid trout]

tiny toss facet is nutty

[paper shell]

https://dota2protracker.com/meta

[viscid trout]

he's also a very good pos 4

[paper shell]

heres a more pro-oriented list I believe

Tiny is infact in that list and IS the most contested

[steel forge]

quick wit is apparently more picked but has a lower win rate than heart of battle

[paper shell]

I've noticed arc warden near the top of a lot of these lists

Though interestingly not at the upper upper level of play

[steel forge]

apparently sk is the highest winrate hero atm? that doesn't feel right

[paper shell]

8k+

[steel forge]

oh, I don't know how to filter for that

[paper shell]

Its kinda just how this site does it

[steel forge]

oh I see

[paper shell]

Another one of those like weird subsets of data

[steel forge]

maybe sk is actually just good right now, I do think he's very strong

[paper shell]

Seems like Arc Warden is the highest win rate across all ranks

[steel forge]

I do wonder how much of that is people at lower ranks not knowing how to deal with arc warden

like, him performing well at high ranks as well does mean there's something real, but

I have absolutely no clue what you do against an arc warden having a good game

[paper shell]

As a player of arc warden, kill his team over and over. He’s like meepo and other carries who take the whole maps farm. The rest of the team has no money usually

But like sometimes also. Idk

Or kill him by himself if you can I guess

[elder lodge]

I like the variance in Bloodseeker's stats. Nobody playing 'em but those that do sure are murdering guys

[serene arrow]

I just find it funny how Wraith King is on there twice

(and so's Abaddon and Dark Seer)

[steel forge]

lmao fair enough

[steel forge]

I'm honestly really suprised bone guard wk is also up there

maybe I haven't been giving the bois enough credit

[glossy stratus]

The Bois are real good

[glossy stratus]

Arc Warden is interesting, because he's real hard to shut down, but he also doesn't really prevent you from doing what you want

So sometimes the best answer is to just focus on what your hero/draft want to do, and let Arc do Arc things

Admittedly part of that might be my hero pool speaking, I play a lot of heroes that kind of just don't engage with Arc Warden

You have to care a lot more about him if you're a Drow trying to outfight him in a right click battle than if you're a Weaver running past him to his team

[gritty sparrow]

I think Arc is a bit like Meepo in that regard. Almost always with an absurd win rate but not picked in tournaments

[reef parcel]

bone guard wk is like the imp summon underlord gate

hurling dudes right into people's faces is just weirdly good in teamfights

undying tombstone is the classic but those zombies are brutal

[glossy stratus]

The skellies are also so nice for farming

[gritty sparrow]

I like that WK is good atm

A comedic hero

[glossy stratus]

I kind of like WK being strong, he's a very... fair hero

[gritty sparrow]

Wraith king and warlock being top meta right now is like

[glossy stratus]

I think the game is healthier when he can stay competitive with the trickier, more game-distorting options

[gritty sparrow]

The time for the brainlets has arrived

The age of thinking is over

[serene arrow]

I picked a good time to get into Dota fr fr

[gritty sparrow]

Complicated heroes? High skill ceiling?

Defeated with my army of imps and skeletons

[glossy stratus]

The bigger map is fun for WK and similar heroes, the positioning game is deeper than it's ever been

Minimap gaming heroes

That would be an interesting challenge run, play only using the minimap

And hero portraits at the top for point-targeted abilities

[steel forge]

I've laned against spectral blade, wk is not fair :p

(I do 100% get what you mean, and it makes a lot of sense)

[reef parcel]

https://fxtwitter.com/Secre_itz/status/1802616377875874136

[gritty sparrow]

Oh yeah

Something I learned last night that I give as a warning

If I am rubick and there is an enemy tiny in the game you should be very careful

I will rapidly spam toss

Every, single time I see any enemy

You will be chucked for my amusement

[paper shell]

I can't blame you

[steel forge]

I've been wanting to steal tree volley from a tiny, but unfortunately nobody ever gets the aghs

it just seems like a ton of fun with arcane accumulation

[paper shell]

AS A NOTE TRON

YOU NEED TRESS TO TREE VOLLEY

I SAW YOU DOING IT WITH NONE

[steel forge]

yes I did realise that lol

[paper shell]

its in the name

[steel forge]

look that game was in the bag I wanted to buy the aghs, it was a bad pick up

[gritty sparrow]

It used to be more common but ever since Khanda was put in then that is the more direct build

[paper shell]

made me laugh when you did it with one

[gritty sparrow]

Especially with the new facets

[paper shell]

and killed thr razor anyways

[steel forge]

tiny is just such a good hero that even I can own with him, what can I say

[paper shell]

Also just a fun hero

[steel forge]

he is very fun

throwing things is fun

[glossy stratus]

Primal should be able to throw Tiny with shard

This would definitely not cause any problems

[steel forge]

lol

earth spirit and his remnants too

[glossy stratus]

Also Tiny should be able to pick up Treant

Tiny is one of those heroes I enjoy all the spells of but can't actually play

[paper shell]

In that abilioty draft game I realized I was also terrible at tiny

[glossy stratus]

Toss is so wonky

He's too much of a oneshot hero for me, I dislike having a strict HP cutoff where my effectiveness drops sharply

Admittedly modern Tiny does a lot even if he can't combo you

[steel forge]

I think you can scale that HP cuttoff pretty well with echo saber and khanda and stuff

[glossy stratus]

It scales a lot more as well, yeah

[paper shell]

this is true, but with that extra scaling he becomes literally the best hero in the game 😛

[steel forge]

he also does have a very good stun, a very good ""stun"", and some bafflingly long-range abilities

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, he's undoubtedly exceptionally good right now

[light urchin]

I like Tiny but I'm not good at using Toss; the positioning for it throws off my tank-brain

[glossy stratus]

Toss is one of those abilities that has basically no skill ceiling

It's great

[steel forge]

there is a lot of things you can do with toss but especially on core tiny I think just walking up to someone and tossing them at themselves is largely good enough

[light urchin]

For big beefy lads with huge disables I'll probably just stick with Tides

I enjoy just never dying in most lanes

[steel forge]

I say largely, I do not include laning or real teamfights, but

[glossy stratus]

Not really, you really want to be blinking on them :p

[steel forge]

lol

blinking is basically walking

one big step

[steel forge]

honestly I'm not actually sure I'd call tiny very tanky at lower levels

[light urchin]

Nah, not especially

[gritty sparrow]

I do wish Tiny didn't one shot me while having 4k health and no tank items

[glossy stratus]

He's got good HP, but you do need to buy some armor for laning

[light urchin]

But in my head he keeps falling into the 'wade into a team fight and just fuck everything up' type when that's not conductive to actually playing the guy

[glossy stratus]

Real good at turning any attempts around though

[steel forge]

you kinda want to blink into the teamfight and explode everyone at once moreso than wading

[light urchin]

Yeag

I like a good wade

I should try Abbadon sometime

[steel forge]

abbadon's kit seems interesting on paper but now that I've seen lark be good at PL, abbadon may be the only remaining hero I've never seen do anything especially impactful

not in this patch at least

[glossy stratus]

Abbadon is terrifying if played well alongside a strong carry

And kind of does nothing a lot of the rest of the time

Strong Dispels are ludicrously good

[gritty sparrow]

I miss his silence

[light urchin]

He's very much like, the ultimate Average HP Booster for a team
dude just helps out and doesn't die

[glossy stratus]

Like, Press the Attack being a strong dispel has made Legion a viable support pick on and off, despite her having literally nothing else as a support

[gritty sparrow]

Fun fact

He is one of the few heroes with agency in chrono

[glossy stratus]

(Okay, that's a lie, Duel is a good stun. It's just also melee range and can't be used on cores.)

[gritty sparrow]

He can still press ult

[glossy stratus]

I assume Troll with his 25 can as well

Anyone else?

Oh, and Ursa with Aghs

Morph with Shard

[steel forge]

faceless void

[glossy stratus]

Not wrong

Even if it's not his Chrono

Rubick if it is his chrono

[viscid tapir]

Toss used to be able to throw BKB-ed heroes

and the final talent was 3 charges

there was a very big problem with it in that iteration

[steel forge]

hmmmmm

[viscid tapir]

I'm like 80% certain that if LC was duelling when chronoed, she could cast overwhelming odds

[glossy stratus]

The archers of the Bronze Legion care not for such petty constraints as time and space

[olive moon]

OFFLANE RUBICK

[steel forge]

are you sure it wasn't supposed to be offlane ogre

nonetheless, hell yeah

[steel forge]

the answer is yes btw

[viscid tapir]

I love how much you can kite someone as a fed CM

frostbite, clone, nova, frostbite back up

[steel forge]

oh huh, you won that one

very nice

[viscid tapir]

lol

[glossy stratus]

Her bonus range facet really helps with that IMO

[viscid tapir]

did you catch when I just ran circles around Kunkka, tron?

[glossy stratus]

Bumps Frostbite's range up just enough you can catch them without getting caught

[steel forge]

ah no I only popped in to watch slark almost die to basically just you hitting t3s alone and also to watch void chrono 2 people and attack only the lich outside the chrono

[viscid tapir]

oh I missed that chrono

[steel forge]

somehow a clusterfuck of a fight ended up being a 1 for 1, it was odd

[viscid tapir]

it ended with our team taking rosh, nobody picking up aegis and everyone yelling at each other to take it, then I (CM) picked it up

[glossy stratus]

TBH I'm of the opinion supports should take the Aegis a lot more than they do, particularly in the late game

There are a lot of games where the teamfight is entirely determined by if they manage to initiate on a critical support

And a support usually has more inventory space to afford it

[manic nimbus]

I know it was a convo way earlier, but I will say that I think people look at winrate way too much in protracker/etc

and contest in pro games is a more useful metric

[steel forge]

okay I think I found that and, lmao, that was incredible

the void refusing to backpack wand for aegis and then pinging gg after is really incredible too

[viscid tapir]

truly a magnificent end to that game. Venge was the only teammate I commended.

[steel forge]

I have... questions, as to your sk's item build, I will admit

[viscid tapir]

I probably do as well

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> till and I want to dote

[delicate jungle]

ye

[viscid tapir]

sure!

[reef parcel]

join us

[cursive wing]

busy

[paper shell]

i could maybe

[glossy stratus]

If the Dotes continue until I'm home I'd like to join

[paper shell]

I'd love for one of them friday night inhouses to happen 😄

I want an excuse to play a more unorthodox hero/build without the need to try my absolute hardest

A for fun build in a for fun enviroment

[glossy stratus]

Inhouse where the more experienced players random could be interesting

[manic nimbus]

tbh I always saw inhouses as more serious mode

[glossy stratus]

I think it's a bit awkward doing serious mode inhouses with such a variable experience level

[paper shell]

I'd say it also depends on the goal or expectations of people in the game

[glossy stratus]

Mhmm, definitely something to explicitly decide on ahead of time

For a more serious inhouse you would probably want to have some sort of player draft

[viscid tapir]

there is an option to immortal draft

which is basically the captain drafts players

[glossy stratus]

I remain staggered by the hilariously bad design of immortal draft

Wherein stacks are not drafted as a group

To entirely predictable outcomes

[steel forge]

thanks for the game everyone, it was sure something

[paper shell]

Was very silly

I think maybe if I had conversion things coulda been better

[steel forge]

I think if we had persuasion we honestly could've ratted it out 100%

[glossy stratus]

It also would have helped if Tom's bear had decided whether or not it wanted to live

[viscid tapir]

yeah

[glossy stratus]

Instead of the 50/50 to keel over randomly

I'm still disappointed my combo didn't work

[viscid tapir]

yeah

RIP

[paper shell]

I think this was a good example of how the push draft can work

[glossy stratus]

Yep

It was also a very good example of "stuns win games"

[paper shell]

Oh I also think if our medusa

drafted literally anything other than what they drafted

idk

Medusa without split shot is like

[glossy stratus]

If she had picked up Torrent on like any other pick her build would actually have been incredible

[paper shell]

very sad

[steel forge]

stone gaze was from time to time very useful

[glossy stratus]

But she tried to leave it for 40th pick

[paper shell]

Yeah like snake and aghs

[glossy stratus]

And that was not happening

Snake aghs + Torrent Storm is absolutely a game winner

Mostly this game has made me realize how sad I remain about the Sleight change that killed Battlefury Ember

[viscid tapir]

i'm honestly baffled as to what was happening there

[steel forge]

I am genuinely convinced it had something to do with you being arc warden

[glossy stratus]

Or maybe if it got beyond a certain distance of where you died, or if you died outside of/within a certain distance

Or you died while it was too far frome LD

[gritty sparrow]

It was strange but the bear is one of those things that just has endless bugs

[viscid tapir]

i think it had to do with me swapping the aghs to and from the bear

just don't know why it only died sometimes when it was holding it

[glossy stratus]

Cursed possibility: it depended on which slot it was in

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> anyone up for doing some dota? me and till are around

[viscid tapir]

sure!

[glossy stratus]

Ooh, Dota

[stark linden]

I'd like to watch

[light urchin]

I might be in like, 10?

Dota got updated so i need to see if I still have to enact The Ritual

[viscid tapir]

Lark had some launch options that seemed to help them with loading

[light urchin]

I looked up and tried something along those lines that didn't really help, but, @glossy stratus what specifically did you attempt?

[glossy stratus]

I think these are the relevant launch options: -novid -vulkan -prewarm -console -map dota +map_enable_background_maps 0

(I have several others but Idon't think they do anything outside my setup)

[light urchin]

Ah, yeah I've tried this, does not help my scenario

[glossy stratus]

Alas

[light urchin]

Hmm, maybe not that last command

[glossy stratus]

That's the most significant one for the loading in thing I think

[light urchin]

I'll give it another go

[glossy stratus]

Note that you have to change it back to map_enable_background_maps 1 in the console to see the score screen after the match

[light urchin]

Lmao
But, yeah, full warning, if this doesn't work I'll get disconnected from the lobby as it loads into character select, then be stuck 2 minute no-queue restriction
Usually then works fine on the second game

[glossy stratus]

I find loading into a bot game before the actual game helps too

[light urchin]

I've tried that, nothin

[glossy stratus]

Darn

[viscid tapir]

broodling in the act 3 side quest

[light urchin]

Yoooooo

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> looking for a fifth

[light urchin]

The Ritual has failed me

[delicate jungle]

Bibbit…

[delicate jungle]

Spending time with partner c:

[devout juniper]

lemme in there /j

JOKING!!

so sorry

i gave it my best shot though

[reef parcel]

you diiid

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> gamers?

[glossy stratus]

Most likely no Dota for me tonight

[delicate jungle]

Alas

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> it's a decent bit later but - anyone up for being a fifth in my stack? 👀

thinking of doing some dota

[delicate jungle]

y

thats a yes

[sturdy venture]

To the lovely people in VC: apologies, my internet decided to die, apparently.

If my Internet can be resurrected, I would love to play a game tonight, if people are interested in carrying me

[delicate jungle]

@sturdy venture do you want to hop in

[sturdy venture]

Internet is still righting itself, so unfortunately, may not get to play tonight

[delicate jungle]

ok

[reef parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> anyone wanna fifth

[cursive wing]

Yes

[reef parcel]

@real parcel

[paper shell]

Banned to play lina and Phoenix forever

[olive moon]

just recieved an excellent pair of messages from a friend trying to get out of guardian

[manic nimbus]

bongo boots is an inherently funny construction of words

[olive moon]

i have no idea what the drum upgrade is actually called

boots of bearing?

idk its just bongo boots in my head and i think i passed that on to a few of my friedns

[manic nimbus]

yeah bongo boots is the standard term

its just such a funny one

[olive moon]

<@&877973728997294120> i need some tokens anyone wanna join me

[steel forge]

Unfortunately on a train

If you’re still around in an hour or two Id be down though (i also want to shout out your friend’s drum ogre, that’s very cool)

[viscid tapir]

i'm awake now if you're still around

[olive moon]

just as i get up to get lunch and now ur in a game

[viscid tapir]

just as i get in a game :(

[sturdy venture]

<@&877973728997294120> if people are interested in a game, I'll be on in like 5 minutes

[delicate jungle]

I could get on

Not sure if we’d get a 5 stack tho

[sturdy venture]

Welp, I'm in https://discord.com/channels/426286410496999425/1262391722105634897

[smoky herald]

@viscid tapir actual dragon knight on Cardiff City Hall

[viscid tapir]

ooh

[smoky herald]

Dragon does look slightly like a bat, I admit

[viscid tapir]

bat wings are usually what I sue as a reference for drawing dragons

[delicate jungle]

@olive moon you on

[delicate jungle]

<@&877973728997294120> fifth?

(still need a fifth)

[delicate jungle]

@real parcel sorry if i came off rude

[real parcel]

happens.

[viscid tapir]

unfortunate player lineup of "3 new players and 2 more expierenced ones"

• don't want to send a new player mid, so someone has to go there
• but that means there's a lane with 2 new players

[reef parcel]

omg. https://dotadle.net/ <@&877973728997294120>

[stark linden]

help, what hero was ||released before i was born||

[reef parcel]

LOL

got it in 4

fuck

[stark linden]

same

[reef parcel]

I guessed it on the second try but I didn't punch it in

I faffed about with two other heroes like an idiot

should've just sent it

[stark linden]

I found #Dotadle Hero #213 in classic mode in 4 shots (easy) ⚔️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟥🟥🟥🟩⬇️
🟩🟩🟧🟥🟩🟥⬇️
🟩🟩🟧🟥🟥🟥⬇️

https://dotadle.net

[reef parcel]

I just wasn't sure if ||death prophet didn't count as human|| or not

||when I saw another hero pop up as "undead" in their species I was like omg it's def death prophet||

[viscid tapir]

got it in 2

[reef parcel]

omg you got the year on first try

luucky

[viscid tapir]

gender, lane, and attribute were more what I used mostly

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, getting lane is really nice there

Since gender and attack type are guaranteed, I think that narrows it down to 1 (||Windrunner can also support||)

[steel forge]

I found #Dotadle Hero #214 in classic mode in 2 shots (easy) ⚔️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟥🟥🟧🟥🟥🟩🟩

https://dotadle.net

release year is massively unhelpful lol

[glossy stratus]

Simply be a Dota grognard

[steel forge]

alas, ||the bounds of time and space prevent me from remembering that one||

[glossy stratus]

And have everyone released since the beta be a "new hero"

[paper shell]

I found #Dotadle Hero #214 in classic mode in 2 shots (easy) ⚔️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟥🟧🟩🟩🟩🟩

https://dotadle.net

Huzzah

[steel forge]

also lark I wish to share with you this ad build

[glossy stratus]

lmao

[steel forge]

it was on sven so I had the talents and the shard

[glossy stratus]

Absolutely incredible

[glossy stratus]

And 5 null talis, presumably

[olive moon]

I had a different hero?

[paper shell]

they had a mana drain friend

[steel forge]

mostly emily yeah

second mana pool

[glossy stratus]

I really hope you had at least one team fight where you permatornadoed 4 people while you permahexed the last one

[paper shell]

wait you have yesterdays still?

[steel forge]

sadly we needed to do damage so they could not stay in the tornado

[paper shell]

I started with Lina because she was yesterdays

[steel forge]

also I would have to stand exactly on top of them

[glossy stratus]

Time zone shenanigans?

[glossy stratus]

That's why you let one be permahexed

[olive moon]

it said yesterday was ||magnus||

[paper shell]

You're a time traveller

[steel forge]

the permahex was very effective

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, for the rest of us ||Lina|| was yesterday

[steel forge]

I also got warp flare with my shard

which was cool

useful maybe a single time, but cool

[glossy stratus]

Sounds about right for Warp Flare lol

[glossy stratus]

Someday I will manage to get Ball Lightning + Mana Drain on Pugna

[paper shell]

someday

[glossy stratus]

And be the absolute worst

Add Mana Shield for the absolute nuisance build

[light urchin]

I found #Dotadle Hero #214 in classic mode in 3 shots (easy) ⚔️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟥🟥🟥🟥🟩🟩
🟥🟩🟧🟥🟥🟩🟩

https://dotadle.net

just had to remember their damn name

[viscid trout]

I found #Dotadle Hero #214 in classic mode in 2 shots (easy) ⚔️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟥🟩🟧🟥🟥🟩🟩

[steel forge]

this tiny facet really does need a nerf

I should not be able to farm heroes this easily off a mid that went kinda okay

[glossy stratus]

Apparently there's also a bug that causes that facet to ignore damage resist from BKB

[steel forge]

yeah I've been hearing that too

[glossy stratus]

And other sources of debuff immunity

[cursive wing]

probably because the spell does damage to towers

and that is some sauce for the spageti

[glossy stratus]

That would be understandable, except that I'm pretty sure it's only with that facet

[steel forge]

I'm pretty sure it's only specifically the bonus damage from the facet too

[glossy stratus]

I thought it was full toss+facet damage with the facet, normal reduced toss damage without

Would have to test to be sure though

[stark linden]

the fuck do i do with this first guess T_T

I found #Dotadle Hero #214 in classic mode in 8 shots ⚔️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟥🟥🟥🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟥🟥🟥🟥🟥🟩
🟩🟥🟧🟥🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟥🟥🟩🟩🟥⬇️
➕3️⃣ more
https://dotadle.net

this one was hard

i hate guessing by release year T_T

[light urchin]

||2004 is when I was born, that tells me shit all||

[olive moon]

@steel forge how did u lose that one i saw you kill their whole team at rosh and the ancient was the only building in their base

[steel forge]

chaotic knight

also just some

baffling missplays by my team

and me, but getting hooked out of avatoss cannot be 100% my fault

really though it was just chaotic knight dealing 1 billion damage

I think I should've tried to just backdoor the ancient rather than joining the final teamfight

[steel forge]

...huh, according to d2pt sven is currently the most picked pos5

[manic nimbus]

I'm definitely a believer in it

[gritty sparrow]

It's one of those things that I'd trust pros doing it but if I saw a random doing it I just know they are going to play like a support for the first 10 minutes then go pretend to be a p1

I haven't been watching pro stuff but I imagine maxing the warcry is a lot of free armor and protection early on

With his new barrier facet

[steel forge]

I sought out some more information on it and it basically just seems like the pros are doing a lot of running around as a deathball, so you get a lot of value out of auras in general, and sven's is really good

[gritty sparrow]

You know I am glad I still like, don't see deathball enough in my level to see it every game

It hasn't crept out of immortal ranked too much

I honestly hate the deathball

[manic nimbus]

I prefer it to farmfest dota personally

hmm yeah build is basically the same as my one

nice

[serene arrow]

does the pos nomenclature really makes sense if everyone's deathballing all the time

[manic nimbus]

its arguably more important because you farm as a ball as you move

but tbh I think it has big limitations in that you are probably getting key items

on people so it probably shifts as the game goes

[olive moon]

<@&877973728997294120> any token collectors?

[manic nimbus]

having an early night today

unfortunately

[steel forge]

I am awake

[sturdy venture]

@olive moon I will be available in about 15 minutes or so, need to start some laundry and feed cats.

[steel forge]

in the opposite direction, admittedly

[sturdy venture]

[As a note: I am very new and will certainly make mistakes as welll as maybe screw your queueing, if that matters to you]

[olive moon]

its ok my 10k games support last game died twice in the first 3 mins then jungled for the rest of the game you literally can't be any worse

[gritty sparrow]

The skill range in the lancer stack makes the matchmaking exciting

[cursive wing]

yo

i could BUT a tow truck is coming to jump start my car in an hour

so give me like 90 minutes

[manic nimbus]

I miss medallion

[woeful nimbus]

I'm getting back into the game and also tempted to dote some as

Have you all started yet?

[gritty sparrow]

I recommend everyone learn dota by playing Rubick

It's fun

It's exciting

You'll have a 30% winrate

[woeful nimbus]

You will definitely learn a lot of dota by doing that, with no potential downsides

[gritty sparrow]

It's how I learned, and now it's the only skill I have

[elder lodge]

This is how I feel about Invoker, it's so active and fun and then you lose

[olive moon]

not yet, you wanna join?

[woeful nimbus]

Yeah, give me a sec

[steel forge]

I think I need to watch some high level sand king games

why is first item bloodstone the thing now

why are we maxing sandstorm

[light urchin]

because it's funny

[reef parcel]

https://fxtwitter.com/ShouldHaveCat/status/1812868528774561849

[viscid tapir]

@sturdy venture by the way, I'm not sure if you got around to further configuring your options, but there's a couple things you might want to check:

• Channeled Abilities require Hold/Stop: if you're playing CM it'll be easy to accidentally cancel your ult, this makes it harder.
• actually binding something for "Cancel Current Action"; you unbound S for neutral, which is the default for that.

there's some other options there that are worth poking around, likely setting Auto Attack to "never", but those two are the big things I think you should look at

[viscid tapir]

I will be around for more dota, just taking a break for now

[glossy stratus]

I'll join for game, like, 12 :p

[viscid tapir]

little do you know next game is approximately game 4

or 5 maybe

who knows

[glossy stratus]

Oh, sorry, I'll join for game, like, 18 then

Assuming you do nothing but play Dota all day

Which is definitely a reasonable assumption

[viscid tapir]

ha ha yes of course I will play Dota all day and do nothing else

(closer to true than usual today because I've hurt my toe and am contemplating not going to HEMA)

[glossy stratus]

D: hope your toe recovers soon

[viscid tapir]

it's not that bad

just uncomfortable enough to not want to stand on it for 2 hours

[glossy stratus]

Ah, fair

[steel forge]

does evasion stack, or is each instance of it checked differently

[gritty sparrow]

It doesn't stack well

Each evasion source you get stacks worse than the previous

[glossy stratus]

It stacks very well

Evasion stacks more efficiently than armor

But it's easier to counter

Specifically, it stacks multiplicatively, which is equivalent to each instance checking independently

[viscid tapir]

Tron Brewmaster detected

[glossy stratus]

Armor stacks so each point gives the same amount of EHP. So 17 armor gives 50% damage reduction for +100% EHP, 34 armor is 67% DR for +200% EHP, etc.

[glossy stratus]

I can't spectate right now, but I can check Discord, so I'm going to need you to livetweet this game /hj

[viscid tapir]

there's a fun extra answer to the evasion question which is: diminishingly, but blind is additive (I'm pretty sure)

[glossy stratus]

Really? TIL

Not that there are many blinds to stack

There's what, KotL blast and Phoenix?

[gritty sparrow]

Tinker

[viscid tapir]

whirling axes

laser, yes, sure

[steel forge]

sk

[viscid tapir]

radiance

[steel forge]

is radiance not actually evasion

[gritty sparrow]

It's both

[glossy stratus]

Bola and Smoke Cloud too

[steel forge]

i hope tom was watching that

[glossy stratus]

Also NP Sprout but like Laser the stacking is irrelevant there

[viscid tapir]

bola, I think you mean incapacitating bite again

I think I was

[steel forge]

i actually used the split

[viscid tapir]

oh I missed that

[steel forge]

it was very cool

[viscid tapir]

I did see you hit zeus with void form to slow him

[glossy stratus]

Brew is fun because during split you just find their scariest hero and Tornado them for 5 seconds every 8 seconds

[viscid tapir]

so I've only been half-paying attention, but the Juggernaut on Tron's team just dove the enemy fountain with aegis for... no reason?

[steel forge]

yeah who knows

oh they wanted a rampage apparently

[viscid tapir]

consider telling them that they can't get a rampage if they're dead

[glossy stratus]

A classic

[steel forge]

that's a new one

also holy shit the venomancer in my game was one of the worst human beings i've ever interacted with

[viscid tapir]

oh huh

[manic nimbus]

Brew is great

I always forget to pick him post universal change

Dispelling illusions is also nifty

As is just monstering supports

[glossy stratus]

You've heard of nominative determinism...

[viscid tapir]

fun Ability Draft Fact™️: invoker's Quas ticks count for Fiery Soul

[glossy stratus]

Lmao

[viscid tapir]

Quas ticks on Agnostic, for the record

[glossy stratus]

<@&877973728997294120> anyone for a match or two in 15ish mins?

[paper shell]

ye

[stark linden]

👀

[viscid tapir]

me

[reef parcel]

I could play

o..o

[stark linden]

it looks like we have a squad

[cursive wing]

yio

[paper shell]

squad squad

Be there in a sec

gunna get water etc

[stark linden]

@reef parcel you still game?

[viscid tapir]

@steel forge poke

100% chance that Tron fell asleep at his computer

[glossy stratus]

<@&877973728997294120> 4/5 slots filled, you, that means YOU could be the fifth!

[viscid tapir]

@cursive wing any estimate?

[cursive wing]

no

as intended

[cursive wing]

It's still not working

[delicate jungle]

F

[serene arrow]

going from Wraith King's 1 button (and then three items which are largely independent in order) to Sven's three buttons plus three items which need to be sequenced correctly was rough

I can see why my first foray into Dota went so badly haha https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/910932119549792290/1263010305743523890/image.png?ex=6698ad82&is=66975c02&hm=eccc290b2647818b7d8145f3421b90bb47016f49a152da34160ab7b69da1b79a&

[viscid tapir]

into-the-frying-pan solution: I teach you my spirit breaker build

[serene arrow]

Spirit Breaker is on My List™️ of heroes to try yeah

[viscid tapir]

where you:

• charge
• phase boots
• drum
• bulldoze
• shadow blade

and you have to charge first and shadow blade last

because otherwise you lose the shadow blade buff

[serene arrow]

got'cha

[viscid tapir]

I miss when Dark Seer's Surge just uncapped movement speed and was a big % buff, was hilarious to combo with spirit breaker

a couple friends of mine played a few games of dota and I would just surge them around

anyway, hope you had fun despite all the information overload!

[serene arrow]

yeye, definitely validates my decision to try and stick to the simplest heroes at first

[paper shell]

I still reccomend playing arc warden to learn how to press buttons

[serene arrow]

But I haven't had a lot of time to practice other heroes and Sven is the only other 1 I've played, so when WK was banned, uh

[paper shell]

or tinker

[serene arrow]

I'll probably study up on and try a bot game or two as Lifestealer or something before next time

[paper shell]

For sure worthwhile

[serene arrow]

'cause I do prefer the slow-and-steady learn-the-fundamentals approach when it comes to team games :P

[paper shell]

Im a big fan of bot games and have been since I started playiong

I don't play a hero in a real game unless I've played it in a bot game at least once

[serene arrow]

yeah

in theory I try to do that too but I just haven't gotten around to it (other than with WK)

Dota opportunities are a bit sporadic for me too so it's hard to plan around

[sturdy venture]

mood

[paper shell]

Ah yeah, I wanted to play the only game my friends played at the time with them so I was heavily incentivized to learn quick

[vapid ledge]

oh yeah, speaking of. been trying out LD in bots to practice non-solo heroes

man, RTSes are hard

[sturdy venture]

At some point, I will get a game where I can play Snapfire or Meurta.

(both of the last games they've been banned)

[gritty sparrow]

Muerta has felt a bit weak recently but I do love her

[gritty sparrow]

If you are trying p1 as your preferred role, I recommend Weaver or Drow for ranged options. Spectre is another melee tanky p1 though but plays a lot different than the skeleton king/sven beefy boys

[serene arrow]

Cores are comfier in general imo, since you always have something obviously productive to do

[gritty sparrow]

Drow is very straight forward and easy to pick up if you've played League, Weaver is the carry that you play if you like playing dumb but hate the consequences of your actions

[serene arrow]

What I'm mostly looking for are straight-forward options that don't tax the mental stack too much while I'm new

Thus why I'm usually playing Wraith King if I have the option, hah

[gritty sparrow]

When I was learning, Weaver was my ranged pick

You don't really buy much for active items on Weaver and you spend a lot of your time being difficult to keep track of

[manic nimbus]

I think weaver is pretty tricky

I'd do some bot games on sven

learning how to use items fast and do that stuff is a pretty transferrable skill

[serene arrow]

yeah, makes sense

[steel forge]

Hey I fell asleep in bed thank you very much

[honest idol]

Bed gaming

[gritty sparrow]

He is difficult to master but at least for me he was very straight forward, with like, the main thing I needed to spend mental effort on is "do I toss the bugs on them now or I am just literally spitting money at them"

[manic nimbus]

I have done violence

the sniper menace has been defeated

[sturdy venture]

Violence acheived!!

[manic nimbus]

their whole team folds to blademail

and nobody got a bkb for ages

[sturdy venture]

oof

[manic nimbus]

that hero damage

very happy

clockwerk feels so good to do well with

[honest idol]

He's impactful no matter what you do

[manic nimbus]

yeah def

[honest idol]

-# for good and ill

[manic nimbus]

yeah you can def troll your team

[honest idol]

As long as you annoy two enemies per teammate trolled, you're winning

[manic nimbus]

yeah

and as long as you go on the sniper

you are definitely winning

[honest idol]

Sniper is for hugging

[manic nimbus]

if you are cold he is cold, put him in the cogs

[honest idol]

The electric hum will call him down

[steel forge]

dragon chess is candy crush?? this is torture

I am so bad at these kinds of games

[cursive wing]

<@&877973728997294120> i;m back

[viscid tapir]

unfortunately we didn't keep the game paused this long

[real parcel]

I'd be down for a game if one starts.

[manic nimbus]

I'm off to bed unfortunately

[steel forge]

the holy grail

[steel forge]

okay I don't mean this in a mean way but I feel like every pub sniper plays like a robot

like something new moves into their view, whether or not it makes sense to shoot at it, they immediately shoot at it

and then it leaves and they just immediately go back to whatever they were doing

it's fascinating to watch tbh

unrelatedly, I'm really trying to figure out what role in a draft brewmaster fills, because honestly it feels like none of them

[reef parcel]

you're definitely noticing a real thing, I think certain characters definitely attract a certain kind of player and sniper attracts a lot of players who safely wanna just attack move across the map and not be punished for it at low levels

[gritty sparrow]

That is a good reason why I don't always use the word "Main" when I talk about a dota one trick

I use pervert

[reef parcel]

@manic nimbus uses brewmaster insanely well, I'd consider it one of his strongest heroes next to kotl. if he picks brew we're likely to win. brew is just an insanely chaotic big teamfight ult character and his big teamfight ult is massive disruption

if you don't kill the brew, he splits

[gritty sparrow]

There is a certain closeness and alignment to the personality you get with dota heroes

[reef parcel]

when he splits he can like... put one person in a tornado, stun one other person, run down a third person

just run around trying to kill people with impunity and loads of tools + health

and then brew pops back out just fine

there are certain heroes brew just demolishes

like what's a bane gonna do to a split brew

https://tenor.com/view/jojo-kick-jjba-gif-13894493

[gritty sparrow]

You dress them up, there are many unique ways you can typically play each hero, and dota has a long history of what is tried and failed with them. People who choose to main a certain one to the point they are high level in pubs tend to just. All be weird like that

[glossy stratus]

He kind of fills every role, because he also is rather terrifying before he splits

[reef parcel]

yeah he's still a massive tanky beefstick before he splits

so he can walk around being frontline

and you can't kill him cause if you try he splits

[glossy stratus]

A radiance Brew can kind of just run at you and you die

[steel forge]

maybe I just need to sit in earth style more often

[gritty sparrow]

My friend plays a lot of Brew and I regularly see him go like

[steel forge]

I've been really undervaluing it

[gritty sparrow]

20 and 3, and then I look at the actual damage he did

And it's something silly like 15k

I don't really understand it but it seems effective

[steel forge]

yeah I'm not sure, I've played a few games with brew, and they've been on average fine with some baffling swings in the middle of them

[glossy stratus]

One thing to note is the Earth panda keeps Brew's auras when he splits, which makes him an absolute nuisance of an aura carrier

[steel forge]

oh so you get two radiances in split?

[gritty sparrow]

No

Just one panda is always assigned the auras

And it has an order it does it in depending on if a panda has died

[steel forge]

I more meant that the fire guy is basically a walking radiance lol

[gritty sparrow]

It'll say the order in the alt tooltip I think

Oh

[steel forge]

but also understood

[glossy stratus]

Oh, yes, that you get

With Cloak of Flames you could get 3

[steel forge]

oh brew can't survive split if it's only the void bear alive

[glossy stratus]

Wait, what? That shouldn't be the case

Though I could see it being a bug

The void panda didn't exist before, so I could see killing the other three triggering a "delet Brew"

[steel forge]

oh now it's working

very strange

I did in earnest have him die in demo mode when there was just the void bear left

and then I tried it again and it did bring him back

very confusing

[glossy stratus]

Something something beta

[steel forge]

I also did just figure out that I've been griefing myself by dispelling people out of the storm brewling's torando, with the storm brewling

[glossy stratus]

Oh, yeah

It's an important interaction to know how to do

Since you sometimes want to bring them down early

But definitely not always

Good for popping enemies' Euls though

[steel forge]

yeah I can totally see cases where's it's very useful but I've mostly been trying to use it as a "get out of this fight for a bit" button

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, just Tornadoing an important hero is very effective

Spending more than half your time in the air makes for a sad midlaner

[steel forge]

do you know if there's a way to enable quickcast on the brewling abilites?

[reef parcel]

if you enable quickcast by default it shouuld apply to everything?

[steel forge]

oh I've figured it out based on that

I had unit specific on, but you can also change the default within unit specific

thanks :)

[real parcel]

<@&877973728997294120> I would like to attempt to potentially recruit fellow bad-decision makers.

[steel forge]

I could dota an a

[viscid trout]

what do you mean? he's a pos 3 classically, and your job is to cyclone the scariest core out of the fight, while you kill supports with fire panda, and stun targets with earth panda

[steel forge]

I more mean like, iniation, lockdown, damage, stuff like that

initiation

It might just be that he's versatile and so just does lots of things pretty okay

[viscid trout]

not sure what distinction you're making here is

you have a teamfight ultimate that does 4 things

because of that, he's actually so good because for the duration of split you're fulfilling multiple roles

if you're playing brew, I imagine you're just tabbing through brewlings constantly, pressing each of their skills off CD to create chaos and win fights

[steel forge]

I'm mostly thinking about the wider draft, I suppose

like, what gaps he actually fills, what things he brings to a team

a lot of heroes it's a lot more straightforward but brew feels a lot more vague wrt to that

[viscid trout]

well, he brings all three you said

he can do nearly all what is expected of a pos 3: win lane, bully cores, farm blink, initiate fights, stun heroes, be tanky and kill supports/cores

what he can't do well is do all of that all the time because he's cooldown dependent

and I guess he's not a burst hero, more of a run-down hero

compared to a different pos 3 like axe, who can do most of the same, but has fast cooldowns and can "burst" people down with Culling (assuming you get your spins and your team throws nukes in your vicinity)

[steel forge]

hmm, none of the guides I've seen have really reccomended a blink, but I could see it

[willow topaz]

blink is solid you can blink in and slow them all and then split if they can't interrupt, I see my brewmaster playing friend get it sometimes iirc

but definitely feel like he gets radi first?

[viscid trout]

I think he used to rush blinks

other items like auras are more alluring nowadays

[willow topaz]

yea makes sense

[viscid trout]

that's another expectation of common pos 3s: aura carrier

[willow topaz]

yea

brew does teamfights well, carries auras well

[viscid trout]

everything I said is open to re-interpretation btw. Nothing is hard and fast expectation of how to play a hero/role, just some common trends I see in play

you could be the next pos 5 brew innovator

it'll pair well with the pos 4 arc warden

I'm personally cooking pos 3 undying because zombie slap ground hurrdurr

[reef parcel]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DotA2/s/IjvC6j4dYg

[steel forge]

I haven't played many brew games but I feel like I really just want to get sceptre after radiance given how kinda constant fighting feels in my games

[viscid trout]

do what feels good, don't fall into the hands of Big Meta ✊

[real parcel]

Big meta says don't buy a second Aghs.

[viscid trout]

gonna hit you with the only Truism left in dota

Anything can work ~ 🌻

[willow topaz]

time for icefrog to give spirit bear an aghs

[viscid tapir]

about that

[willow topaz]

did that happen? I'm not a lone druid player

in that case I'll amend it to make the main body's aghs better

[viscid tapir]

yeah

independent spirit bear is its aghs, lone druid aghs lets you share spirit link with your allies

[willow topaz]

oh, interesting

I guess it does make more sense for the independent to be on the bear, maybe

[glossy stratus]

Note that lane gold in this image doesn't account for flagbearers, siege creeps, time-based wave size increases, or the fact that lane creeps spawn twice as often as jungle ones

Which makes it fairly misleading

Good for comparing jungle areas though

[steel forge]

reporting back, yeah this feels great

having any utility outside of slows while not split feels awesome

it also serves as my beloved highground pushing item

[manic nimbus]

Blink is a nice e panda item

I think manta is meta after radi

And yeah I think your role is everything and you can force fights well

Something not mentioned is split kills buildings fast

You can rat or just force hg well

[steel forge]

the earth dude having demolish is cool

debuff immune tower hitter is pretty sweet

[manic nimbus]

I saw a pro game where the panda had blink refresh and ratted out a losing game totally

I have never managed it but I'm bad at ratting

I really like forcing hg

In those weird situations where you are strong and say get a support pick

If you have split I find you can often just go up

[manic nimbus]

For picking brew I find he is great vs squishy supports, cores that don't buy bkb, and single target and utility heroes

He hates heroes that make splitting hard though you can play or itemise against that

[olive moon]

@viscid tapir sometimes your razor abandons at level 4 with 10 last hits :/

[viscid tapir]

sometimes

it happens

gonna make dinner, then i'll ping for a game

45 min - 1 hour

[viscid trout]

I'd be in for games

[glossy stratus]

Likewise, once I'm done eating lunch

[manic nimbus]

Panda also imo hates big munty ranged carries that do lots of aoe dmg

Terrorblade

[viscid trout]

wtf rare guild contract

[manic nimbus]

Drow

[glossy stratus]

Gyro

Less so Dusa since she doesn't really want to buy a BKB

And so she goes in the tornado

[viscid tapir]

<@&877973728997294120> as promised, I will ping for a game

[stark linden]

👀

[real parcel]

I'd be in, but I'm like, 20 minutes out.

[paper shell]

😮

[glossy stratus]

👀 👀 👀 👀
(Broodmother)

[paper shell]

[glossy stratus]

I am still eating my lunch at my desk so if someone else is immediately ready and wants in they're welcome to my spot

[stark linden]

Looks like we're not at 5 yet

[glossy stratus]

I think Argent wanted to join, which should get us to 5 exactly

[viscid tapir]

you would be player 5 at this point

[stark linden]

Omw

[manic nimbus]

Gyro yeah, dusa is still pretty annoying

[glossy stratus]

@reef parcel if you wanted to join for a game I am feeling somewhat eepy

[willow topaz]

wow visage gives minion tokens instead of ward tokens smh unplayable

[glossy stratus]

Absolutely unacceptable

[willow topaz]

oh wait no they're creep heroes? I thought they were wards at some point but I'm just showing all my lack of knowledge today

[glossy stratus]

I thought they were as well, huh

[viscid tapir]

@glossy stratus I forget, were you potentially coming back?

wondering if we go with a 4 stack or wait around for you to fill out the party

[sturdy venture]

Are there any interesting/fun/good "state" characters? (Like Elise or Nidalee in League)(https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/champions/elise/)(https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/champions/nidalee/)

[nimble mason]

There isn't really a hero in dota that has a full 2nd suite of abilities upon transforming, but those that can transform (and play differently than base) are Terrorblade, Lone Druid, Lycan, and to a lesser extent, Troll Warlord. might be others I'm forgetting.

[sturdy venture]

Thank you

[sturdy venture]

Holy moly your team WAY out-econed the opfor there

[manic nimbus]

I would say brew transforms too

[manic nimbus]

I'll be around in 10 or so

[sturdy venture]

I'll be on in around 24 (hours) or so

[manic nimbus]

Rip

[steel forge]

draconic knight

he turns into a dragon

[glossy stratus]

Brewmaster is particularly interesting because he both transforms and he has a passive that he can cycle between four different bonuses

[paper shell]

Terrorblade

[glossy stratus]

Er, four different options, each of which has like 3 bonuses

[paper shell]

Lycan

[viscid tapir]

not really heroes that get new spells when they transform

[glossy stratus]

(Except Brew)

[viscid tapir]

arc warden kind of

yeah

[paper shell]

What a graph

[sturdy venture]

Why does it go down in the late game?

[paper shell]

it swings from their favor to our favor

[sturdy venture]

oh! that makes so much more sense

[cursive wing]

https://theyflower.itch.io/ghost-in-the-filesystem

<@&877973728997294120> gamers?

[steel forge]

@glossy stratus I feel like I recall you being a zeus picker, do you have any tips for the hero?

I've played one game so far (and won because of the arcana, obviously), and he just seems... sorta good? like that's silly to say but he just feels very strong and I'm wondering what the more power I can get out of him via skill expression is, if that makes sense, since it's less obvious on him than heroes like, I dunno, the spirits or something

unrelatedly, 10/10 slardar build observed in the wild

this would be bad but not absurd if the blink hadn't been bought after the second moonshard

[glossy stratus]

Honestly, not really for Zeus-specific? He's kind of just generically strong, so he relies mostly on positioning and decisionmaking (and farming), rather than any specific tricks or outplays

He does have a lot of wavespam, so you want to be alternating nuking the wave and eating the big camp

And buy two million regen

[glossy stratus]

He can almost permastun someone though, that's definitely strong enough to skip the blink :p

[steel forge]

the gap between bashes was so reactable it was kinda sad

I honestly wonder if the play was swift blink instead

[viscid trout]

aghs AC so you also just can't die

I find him annoyingly resilient

[glossy stratus]

Yeah, him being a big chonky damagy stunny frontliner is far more effective than the "spend 20k gold to become discount Bane" build, but pubbies gonna pub

[gritty sparrow]

The only problem with some meme perma cc like the slardar is usually just that it relies on someone being alone at a stage of the game where you won't really just be 1v1ing people

Very funny if it happens

[glossy stratus]

And it relies on you getting on top of them, and that they have nothing to prevent it

It is exceptionally funny though

Focus Fire plus Bash of the Deep is a combo I have acquired only once in ability draft

[paper shell]

Was looking into some workshop bot scripts to see how good they are

And apparently they’re all broken too and you have to host any bot lobby’s locally if you want to use custom ones

Smh valve

[viscid tapir]

well hey

that's at least an avenue for getting bots to work

means maybe the new player games will be slightly more interesting

[steel forge]

I have achieved my first ever ramage

[viscid trout]

yeah I think there's some scripts that are updated, but the bots behave wonkily

[glossy stratus]

Congrats!

[steel forge]

it was as brewmaster of all heroes

[glossy stratus]

Not that surprising, Brew is very good at that

He kind of just Does Stuff in fights and people die

[viscid tapir]

ramage

(congrats!)

[steel forge]

ramage indeed