dark tidings (Darktide for people in the searchbar)

[fierce marten]

Cleave on weak spot hit let's you hit 2 enemies with a dart and this is nice for area dispersal mark to basically double the dot

[tough compass]

I see people take stripped down and run & gun as a mobility pick for melee focused builds

[fierce marten]

If you dont take Desperado then Stripped Down is pretty great since scum is quite vulnerable to ranged damage as they have low toughness and TDR so gunners shred them more than other classes

Also Scum got strong stamina regen so you should be over 50% just all the time

[tough compass]

https://youtu.be/KAyBlktSqSk?si=DqLaD_fggOEgV3IZ

tl;dw

• Hyper-critical breaks the melee toughness regen talent (precision violence I think?)
• Jittery doesn't work if you dodge slide
• Stimm supply doesn't trigger Chemical Dependence (when it uses a stimm), but does put the stimm on cooldown on use instead of after the stimm effect ends
• the extra stimm duration talent doesn't work with stimm supply
• anything other than the weapon killing an enemy (including bleed, tox chem, executions from Hyper-critical or blessings) won't count towards getting blind grenades back

[acoustic wharf]

Late reply here, the Needle Pistol is, to me, simultaneously one of the coolest additions and biggest oversights of Scum's design. I fucking love the efficacy of Toxin but am baffled by the fact that there's just...nothing that really interacts with it beyond a single blessing on the Bone Saw that, arguably, isn't actually that good for the weapon. Like it's incredibly strange that the Needle Pistol has literally no unique blessings that key off Poop DoT.

[fierce marten]

Oh huh I thought 3 was weird, guess stim crate is gonna get nicer

And hope 5 gets fixed soon, im like not using chem nades cause 3 other hivers wanting nades is painful

[clear ridge]

my whole group just uses rockets

the chem nades are drastically stronger, i acknowledge

but come on

it's a fucking rocket launcher

[acoustic wharf]

Since the vast majority literally have no value due to requiring a 30 damage dart doink to get the killing blow, Run 'n' Gun is a strong pick largely for the accuracy the recoil and spread reduction provides (the gun's base spread is one of its main defining weak points) and the convenience of pot shots while sprinting. Stripped Down allows you to have another way to avoid becoming Swiss cheese. The various crit boosts are attractive for getting more poison stacks per shot, but in my experience even minimal stack values are Good Enough in the primary mode that crit hits feel like a nice surprise rather than something to lean into.

[tough compass]

It's unclear if 5 is a bug or just how darktide works aiui

[clear ridge]

that definitely changes in d5

where the reduced ttk from crits really helps manage the bullshit

[fierce marten]

Crit and weakspot does boost DoT damage

[acoustic wharf]

To my knowledge they just improve stack count application, which is technically a damage boost

But otherwise crits don't make the stacks themselves do more damage

You're just doing more because the target took 6 stacks vs 5

[clear ridge]

correct, which is more damage

[acoustic wharf]

Realistically it just means you need less shots to hit full stack potency, but Pickpocket means you can be liberal with shots anyway

[fierce marten]

I mean ammo efficiency is low on needler so more stacks with less shots is good

[clear ridge]

yes, but the speed matters a lot

[fierce marten]

Also on high hit mass targets like crushers you need 5 weakspot shots to reach max stacks

So being able to crit and use less shots is pretty good to avoid reload

[acoustic wharf]

Yes, but I wanted to provide clarity under the potential misinterpretation that someone could read the original statement by MissCoded as saying that crits make each stack more powerful instead of just getting +1 more stacks, because Fatshark sure as farts doesn't tell us how it works.

Nothing against MissCoded either! This is just a Fatshark Game Clarity Problem

They don't make things easy for us when it comes to explaining mechanics

Anyway I'm (foolishly) hoping the Needle Pistol just gets a top-down rework on its Blessings since most of them aren't real due to how it works.

[clear ridge]

i absolutely wholeheartedly disagree

all of the crit blessings are relevant, speedload is relevant, the immunities are relevant (especially if you're not running desperado)

run n gun might be a problem due to close damage with the poison, but that'd be a bugfix thing

toughness on elite kill is very good

all of these are worth considering for at least one build type, it just wants more blessings

for chem toxin interactions

[tough compass]

The problem with the on kill effects is they only trigger within a short window of hitting the enemy aiui

[clear ridge]

the problem is the bugs, yeah

[tough compass]

I don't know if that's a bug

[clear ridge]

but if those are fixed, unless a top-down rework gives all of the same benefits but with chem toxin interactions, it would be painful

[clear ridge]

it not being able to trigger close kills with anything other than the thirty damage needle hits absolutely has to be a bug

or at least unintended

[acoustic wharf]

To my recollection any blessing that needs a kill proc explicitly needs the dart to do it, toxin won't trigger them

If that ever changes then stuff like Glory Hunter shoots up extremely high in value

I'd still like at least two blessings that have any kind of interaction with toxin. It just feels really weird the weapon has none.

[slender shell]

It definitely feels like an oversight/bug, hoping they fix it when people come back from vacation in January

[neat dew]

I gotta figure out a good build for using dual auto stub pistols and a crowbar

[marsh gyro]

Rending damage stim might be the play or maybe just middle tree rampage

[opaque crown]

Are there any deep drives on suppression

[marsh gyro]

You mean like how the mechanics work?

scripts/utilities/attack/suppression.lua in the source code has the formulas and variables for players getting suppressed and how enemies check for getting suppressed but I dunno if anybody's translated that into not code speak

[sonic elbow]

something that gets me is that melee enemies don't care whatsoever about being suppressed

so a: holding a lead pipe instills a lion's courage in the same guy that trips over his feet if shot at while he's holding a gun
b: blessings like "suppress enemies within 8 meters" assume a situation where you are surrounded by gunners at 8 meters, which how did you get there, and they've probably drawn clubs by now

[fierce marten]

The heavy gunners forget they're supposed to draw shovels when I get close

Cultist heavy gunner finishing a barrage animation and instead of gun bashing they just start another barrage

[sacred pagoda]

Do I want Hammerblow or Slaughterer for a Crusher maul?

[fierce marten]

Slaughter

40% strength, which strength increases damage, cleave, and impact

If you're arbites then also skullcrusher, do enemies take 40% more damage from not only you but everyone else

The key for crushers is spam push attack into the head cause it has an oddly high finesse modifier so it can kill crushers in like 4 quick headshot

[sacred pagoda]

Not Thunderous?

[fierce marten]

Thunderous if you're not arbites

Arbite's skullcrusher+slaughter just kills every enemy faster and skullcrusher works for every enemy including bosses that don't have armor.

Damage boost from rending is relatively minor compared to skullcrusher

[sacred pagoda]

I see.

[haughty ember]

strength increases cleave?

[sonic elbow]

yeah

[ionic tusk]

I think the rocket launchers are good on the lower difficulties before you get access to better carapace/boss fighting tools (cough cough needle pistol) where you can just veto the small amount of crushers and bosses that spawn from existing

[ionic tusk]

p sure needle pistol can trigger close kills but only for certain effects like desperado
which is probably just desperado being hardcoded to include toxin kills

[sonic elbow]

grenade availability is funny because you can play premade and set up the classes to feed all the ammo boxes to the chemscum/ogrynheimer or play pubs

[ionic tusk]

the close damage at the top of the tree also seems to work on it

[sonic elbow]

and wildly oscilate between everyone needing grenades and no one needing grenades

[ionic tusk]

poxwalkers/groaners can be suppressed (mostly by stuff like chorus and flame staff)

[sonic elbow]

in that environment the rocket launcher is a krak that doesn't regenerate

which uh,

[ionic tusk]

it's fine in like malice where there's 4 crushers per mission

the event turbo sucks for it though, I think (?) it causes more ogyrn spawns just in general also

some of which have cranial corruption (which doesn't really matter but it's why I think they're from the event)

[sonic elbow]

I'm not sure what the rocket would need to stand out

[ionic tusk]

swap the charges on it and the chem nade and give it much more boss damage

being able to just delete bosses is a worthwhile tool on builds that struggle with it
the problem with that though is a lot of hive scum builds scale into being good at bosskilling

so they don't need to dedicate a blitz slot for it

also more splash range so it can kill more than one crusher 💀

and the talent to add toxin stacks on blitz explosion should be per-blitz so the rocket can get a much higher amount

[sacred pagoda]

The new mission is neat.

I liked the insane Leman Russ Demolisher commander.

[ionic tusk]

I like it but it's brutal without specific anti ranged builds
the sloped area in the middle of the mission seems to reliably spawn ranged enemies (and also a lot of the explosion transitions between areas have ranged enemies after them)

[sacred pagoda]

I shot them with my gun and they died.

[cyan depot]

Is that the one with all the craters?

[ionic tusk]

yeah that's the main problem area
when the npc said "there's barely a scrap of cover" they meant it

there is cover but it's hard to get pubs to take it and even then you have to deal with gunners spawning behind you and shooting you as you advance

also, slopes bad, easier to get stuck + standard head level stuff doesn't work

[sacred pagoda]

I just feel extremely out of place being out in an open battlefield as an Arbitrator. It's like... I know the Adeptus Arbites are gendarmes, but man it's weird seeing them outside of the Hive.

[drowsy vine]

that's the thing, they're not out of the hive

the no man's land mission is just in a different part of it

[tough compass]

🤔 Are you fighting in what used to be a giant park or agricultural area then?

[ionic tusk]

I think it's the ruins of a saint messilina church given sister prine's commentary

the mission goes something like trenches -> church ruins -> bridges between ruins -> more trenches -> open area with tons of craters -> bunker

[tough compass]

I was speculating on where the "soil" for the trenches is from

[heavy geyser]

You're gonna lose a lot more on Heresy because it's the no-man's land where the mobs are no longer easy to manage but your teammates do not know how to support each other yet. It's a perfect storm of bad vibes that is good to get out of ASAP, if you hop in Damnation your teammates will be stronger and your matches will be better.

Heresy is the big difficulty spike before the player knowledge catches up to it.

[ionic tusk]

eh I'm feeling this less and less with each passing week
enough people are playing at higher difficulties than they feel comfortable with that you have a decent chance to get teammates also skipping heresy/damnation to get better teammates

[heavy geyser]

It was night and day when we levelled our hive scum.

Scum Week exascerbates it a little bit, and you get old players coming back who are rusty and jumping into higher difficulties they were grandfathered into prior to the update that gated them.

For everyone else working the levels normally Heresy is the big valley you gotta cross to get to the stronger team play.

[worldly talon]

That feeling when you hit the Load Bearing Penance and unlock five things at once

[heavy geyser]

You can stack wounds as a safety buffer and if you go down in Damnation someone's more likely to pick you up, but if you get downed in Heresy you're basically dead.

[uneven turret]

surely winning the hive scum fashion contest with a pair of these baddies

[worldly talon]

What it feels like unlocking all the penance cosmetics I wanted

https://tenor.com/view/cartman-now-we-can-finally-play-the-game-gif-26486523

[uneven turret]

i want all the show gang stuff, but theres no way im doing 1000s seconds of max chem stacks when i can barely manage one stack

[drowsy vine]

Don't go to full viscosity and it's fairly simple if you stick with the base 90s stack duration

[uneven turret]

i want the buffs though, how much viscosity should i aim for before it gets too long

[fierce marten]

Slightly under 30s is good enough

The Stim tree ironically is not about potent stims but spamming weaker low CD stims

[uneven turret]

alright ill try that

[drowsy vine]

If you take the stimm CDR node 60% viscosity is totally fine

That's what I have with one full node and I'm not even 30 yet lol

[uneven turret]

turns out that worked really well

and all that in one mission no less

[drowsy vine]

there ya go

[uneven turret]

good unlock, would suggest going for

[brazen fossil]

Got to level 20 abd Scum is starting to feel pretty good

Crushers still feel bad tho

[drowsy vine]

Scum doesn't have super easy ways to deal with crushers that aren't the needle pistol, crowbar or saw from first impressions

Needle pistol does make it easy street tho

[uneven turret]

what blessings yall run on the needler?

[brazen fossil]

The crowbar still feels incredibly slow

Maybe my build is wrong

[sonic elbow]

I saw a clip of a crowbar blender somewhere

[grave talon]

how do i get 500 curios ?

[sonic elbow]

is there an achievement for that or smth?

[ionic tusk]

do you mean 500 power curios? if so I haven't really seen any and it doesn't matter, because they max out stats sooner

[heavy geyser]

Run & Gun and Stripped Down.

[ionic tusk]

does anyone know if damage/stopping power effect toxin damage or just the initial shot damage on needle pistol? if not then damage is the best min stat I presume

[dawn totem]

While everyone's been enjoying the Scum, I've been really nestling in with the Abarties class. It does work best in a kind of methodical, crowd clearing kind of play.

[marsh gyro]

Shield bonking folks with either the shield+maul or shield+revolver is really fun

[spring lynx]

Shield bonk never gets boring

[dawn totem]

The shield bonk is a bit different with Abarties because you're like sweeping them to the side.

[acoustic wharf]

Desperado (Blessing Edition) is another good option for a reliable +20% crit chance to get more poison stacks per shot. Until they either fix what people (understandably) assume to be a bug or just do a pass on Toxin DoT interactions this is a tricky question to answer. To my knowledge most of the "on-kill" blessings explicitly need the dart to land the final hit.

[acoustic wharf]

As it currently stands the only stats that do anything important are Ammo, Stability, and Mobility. Damage/Stopping don't affect the DoT at all, but +% vs X perks do.

[fierce marten]

Crits do

Damage only affects initial hit

[acoustic wharf]

I'm gonna be pedantic again, but crits only affect the amount of stacks you apply, while +25% vs Carapace actually affects how much damage each stack does.

[fierce marten]

But crits are important and related to this

[acoustic wharf]

Just to showcase +25% Carapace vs none (Mk II variant). I'm not discounting that crits are nice for getting an extra stack of DoT on a target, but I don't think it's impactful as a perk on the Needler.

Also something I keep forgetting is that the Mk II applies 5 stacks per hit, assuming no crit/headshot, while the Mk VI applies 6.

[fierce marten]

Rending is also good

[acoustic wharf]

No, wait, I'm an idiot and I hit the Crusher's head

[fierce marten]

Affects DoTs which always act as if damaging the base armor of the enemy

I run uncanny strike shiv with needler cause it lets chem toxins do strong damage against crushers

Might switch to knife though

[acoustic wharf]

Weapons with Thunderous might have some tech here

[fierce marten]

Strength/Power affects DoTs but I dont see many on Hive Scum

[clear ridge]

it's mostly the melee skill

[fierce marten]

Well CombatKnife gets 120% rending which beats brittleness and affects all of your DoTs at once

[acoustic wharf]

Any that would affect Toxin seem to live pretty exclusively in the Cartel Special (did not mean to hard ping this)

[clear ridge]

otherwise there's just the rending node on desperado and the obligatory damage to monstrosities

[fierce marten]

So Chem Toxin from chem nade benefits from Uncanny a lot

Rending as a buff to yourself aka uncanny affects chem toxin DoTs

Brittleness via Thunderous only affects the target you hit and is capped at 40%

[clear ridge]

i hate that fatshark is so inconsistent with labeling things

why is strength different from power

[fierce marten]

They just never updated it

[clear ridge]

why is scum the only class in the game whose nodes give power instead

[fierce marten]

Strength is a holdover

[acoustic wharf]

Strength is now Power, but they haven't retroactively updated every text instance of Strength to now be Power

[fierce marten]

Everything new is Power

[acoustic wharf]

Because Fatshark apparently doesn't have a copy editor

[fierce marten]

Why they havent just changed the text? No clue

[clear ridge]

except on scum's stimm lab

which is all strength

[fierce marten]

Ope I dont know then

Theres no excuse for that

[clear ridge]

and nowhere do they ever say what either strength or power means

even though it's just final damage

...i think

[fierce marten]

Classic FS no clear descriptions

[clear ridge]

it's still never explained anywhere

[fierce marten]

When a community mod did it better via scouring source code

[acoustic wharf]

Let's not forgot all the built-in class passives that just aren't documented anywhere in game, like the fact that Veteran has cover peaking and Suppression Immunity as of Honor and Duty

[fierce marten]

The suppression immunity is new

[clear ridge]

finesse is also never explained in any skill trees, so you have to find weapons with finesse as a stat bonus and find out there

rending also isn't explained afaik lol

[fierce marten]

I definitely didnt know about vets new suppression immunity

[clear ridge]

i didn't know this

[fierce marten]

What is stagger vs impact

[clear ridge]

and i don't know any other class passives either

[acoustic wharf]

Yeah, it technically dropped during their tree refresh in Honor and Duty but was only recently mentioned in the Scum patch notes because ?????

[spiral badger]

impact is bonus stagger damage, which creates stagger

[fierce marten]

Is that explained in the game anywhere

[spiral badger]

the one place where impact specifically matters where it isn't directly translating into stumbling enemies

is captain shields

which take more damage the more stagger damage you deal

[cyan depot]

oh weird

[clear ridge]

wait what

[drowsy vine]

it was listed in honor and duty too

[clear ridge]

i thought they just took extra melee damage

[fierce marten]

The subject is everything that fatshark doesnt explain, brittleness being rending as a debuff, stagger vs impact,

[clear ridge]

BRITTLENESS IS RENDING?

i thought it was a fucking damage taken debuff

[acoustic wharf]

I love that Poor Fatshark Documentation made me gaslight myself

[fierce marten]

Iirc one is duration of stagger and one is how much stagger damage before it causes a stagger and theres like 3 types of stagger levels

[drowsy vine]

lol

i get it dw

[cyan depot]

It's even better because it's rending on all incoming damage

[spiral badger]

brittleness is rending applied as a debuff to the enemy

specifically

[fierce marten]

Yea brittleness is literally rending but for everyone

[cyan depot]

So it makes allies do more

[spiral badger]

vs rending being a buff/effect on yourself

[clear ridge]

fuck me, i thought it was damage not ap

[fierce marten]

Including the team and its a debuff so it affects bleed done by others on captains if they have their shield up

[drowsy vine]

what is it with swedish devs and poor game documentation (helldivers 2)

[fierce marten]

So rending over 100% becomes a small damage boost

[spiral badger]

they specifically take additional damage from high stagger weapons, that why you can mulch them as oggy/arby

[acoustic wharf]

It is; excess Rending over 100% gets turned into "More Damage Taken" at a 4-to-1 ratio, i.e. 20% Rending over 100% becomes 5% more damage taken

[fierce marten]

120% rending with knife translate to like 5% over damage?

[cyan depot]

Darktide is a Trve 40k game because it's so arcane and misunderstood that everyone is just guessing about superstitions for how to do it

Forget the false promise of knowing game mechanics

[drowsy vine]

correct

[cyan depot]

There is only mashing

[fierce marten]

Tzeench must have written the mechanics and forgot how they worked

[acoustic wharf]

Basically, where Rending is you being better at getting through armor, Brittleness is you removing armor from an enemy

[spiral badger]

i just think of it as buff vs debuff

brittleness is applied to the target

rending is a buff on yourself

[clear ridge]

i mean, i've played a million games with armor shred

[fierce marten]

It has very odd different cases

[clear ridge]

i know how the mechanics work, I'm just

flabbergasted

that it was that

are there any other hidden class passives?

[acoustic wharf]

Looks at Ogryn

[clear ridge]

or weird bullshit mechanics that aren't talked about

[fierce marten]

Like rending does nothing against a captain's shields but brittleness lets exist bleed stacks do extra damage so you can kill a captain faster with its shield up is a weird practical different between rending as a buff to yourself and a debuff to the enemy besides the team thing

Ogyrn cant be staggered

[drowsy vine]

Ogryn has a bunch

[clear ridge]

they can still be interrupted, though

[spiral badger]

zealot takes significantly less damage than every other class while sprinting or sliding

[fierce marten]

Interrupted and stagger are different

[cyan depot]

I think psyker having 5% extra crit (if still true) counts

[drowsy vine]

Innate 20% DR, +1 Wound, anything they dodge into stumbles

[cyan depot]

But it's small

[clear ridge]

ooh I'd seen that one while browsing gsmeslantern for some fuckass bullshit

[spiral badger]

vet used to take significantly more, as did psyker

but they normalized it

[fierce marten]

Ogryn cant be stagger but a dog or mutant or zealot isnt stagger

[cyan depot]

good

[spiral badger]

for everyone except zealot

[clear ridge]

sorry what, innate 20% DR?

[cyan depot]

I hated just never sprinting in combat or I'd explode

[spiral badger]

yeah oggy is inherently tougher

[fierce marten]

Zealot with the thy wrath be swift is also immune to stagger

[spiral badger]

to make up for being a giant target

[fierce marten]

So you can do objectives and revives without interupptions like Ogyrn except being cc'c

[acoustic wharf]

Jokes aside, Ogryn has:

Complete stagger/interruption immunity during any interaction (Hacking, picking up/reviving teammates, etc)
Innate DR (either 15% or 25%, I forget)
Enemy stumble whenever you dodge
Faster carry speed for things like batteries
Other stuff I'm probably forgetting

[clear ridge]

also i just checked, this was nerfed but then they gave it to scum

psyker has 7.5% cc

[cyan depot]

oh neat

[clear ridge]

scum and vet have 10%

arbites also has 7.5%

[acoustic wharf]

Psyker and Cop have 7.5% base Crit chance, Vet and Scum have 10%, Zealot has 5%, Ogryn has 2.5%

[drowsy vine]

ogryn is quite wonderful

[fierce marten]

I think Zealot has 100% TDR against ranged damage while sliding

If you slide against gunners with 0 toughness youll just die

[acoustic wharf]

Which would be funny if true due to Sliding already making you literally immune to being shot while frames are active

[fierce marten]

Only during a part of it

[acoustic wharf]

Yeah, I forgot to mention the active frames

[fierce marten]

If you just hold the slide for super long you lose that dodging against ranged

[acoustic wharf]

Because I remembered about Ogryn

[clear ridge]

psyker and ogryn also only have 5 sprint speed vs 5.2

[acoustic wharf]

This doesn't matter much for Ogryn because they're also natively faster before sprinting due to Being Huge and having Huge Legs

[clear ridge]

god all of psyker's stats are so much lower than the rest lol

[tough shore]

more or less I just read kuli's datamined readouts to know basic class stats

this is how you know that scum has faster stamina regen delay unless you're watching your stamina bar like a hawk or install a mod that gives you a timer bar for your delay

(the fastest stamina delay is arbitrator, scum, psyker, at 0.5)

[acoustic wharf]

Psyker is the OG Glass Cannon

[fierce marten]

I idnt need a mod for that

[clear ridge]

1 base stamina

[fierce marten]

Scum I basically just dont run out of stamina

[clear ridge]

50% stamina sprint modifier

[fierce marten]

Shove pushes basically regen twice over the cost in the time during the shove

[clear ridge]

and ofc 75 toughness

[tough shore]

scum also has the dodge -> 10% stamina talent, you know, just in case you ever run out lmao

[clear ridge]

they should buff psyker's stats

i'm normal and can be trusted i prommy

[fierce marten]

I think itd have to actually try to deplete stamina on a hive scum during a fight like only doing push attacks back to back or just nonstop sprinting

[clear ridge]

yeah you don't run out of stamina on scum, just dodges lol

[fierce marten]

The one talent to decrease delay with 75%+ stamina is wild for that

Theres a few slide talents but if you go all in on dodges it lets you basically attack more while avoiding damage and not really needing to slide at all

[acoustic wharf]

I cannot begin to count how many butt stabs this has saved me from

[worldly talon]

the last penance I unlocked was the fucking...

"Regain toughness with stim" one

That was such a pain

[acoustic wharf]

But now you're free and never have to use that stimm route again!

[fierce marten]

I immediately went for toughness on stim since Hive Scum is the glassiest cannon leveling

Not even cannon just glass

[acoustic wharf]

Man I wish Hive Scum was made of glass, I feel like fuckin' pocket lint

[fierce marten]

Pocket lint doesnt break if you shoot it

[cyan depot]

im lint on the wind

[acoustic wharf]

It's faster than glass though, like CYAN said

[fierce marten]

I guess pocket lint is apt, it just floats out of the way if you try to punch it

[acoustic wharf]

Hive Scum is pocket lint that has rusty staples trapped in it that'll give you tetanus

[fierce marten]

Ideally youre pocket lint and just be out of the way before you get hit, unideally youre glass and get shatterd on impact cause you cant move well

[tough shore]

It's absurd to literally run circles around hordes with just dodges on shivs. And you still have pushes to mix in control.

Also recently I learned that pushes are 360 degrees in darktide which is silly

[fierce marten]

So are blocks

Blocks are also 360 degree

[tough shore]

Well that part I knew very well

But pushes aren't in VT2 and playing that game taught me much better about melee combat than DT did so it threw me off hard to not have it be an aimed angle

[fierce marten]

Yea they're pretty different

Vt2 is a lot more slow and methodical

Also Vt2 no walk/sprinting and slides

[tough shore]

Also in the same experiment in the meat grinder I learned that pushes don't actually vary in distance by weapon. They might vary by stagger strength but I can't find clear weapon stats anywhere.

[fierce marten]

Also darktide has iframes during effective dodges

Theres some pretty key differents between the game

And of course, fatshark doesnt tell you pushes/blocks are 360 degrees and darktide is the only FPS game I know that does that, everywhere else is aimed with limited angle

[tough shore]

VT2 also is harsher in the health department so it tolerates bad melee control less I feel. Even playing ironbreaker was a wake-up call

It feels like toughness bleed exists because otherwise toughness is just straight up insane amounts of EHP and EHP regen

[cyan depot]

I thought they did some

But maybe it's just force swords?

[fierce marten]

VT2 Also has EHP style meta vs Darktide's being mostly toughness based

Which toughness can regen naturally while EHP doesnt for breaks between waves and end of waves

[tough shore]

Temp HP is just a very different mechanic tbh

Especially that it can't run over max health.

[fierce marten]

Yea it is but its your primary survival means

Just like toughness is for darktide

[tough shore]

Toughness is a second, generally regenerating health bar with weird caveats, certain enemies and circumstances will bleed damage through it, some debuffs nuke your regain, it's unaffected by corruption and all classes naturally gain some on melee kill on top of other sources

Temp HP pads your HP loss during combat to keep mistakes from bleeding your real health, you can't gain any without already having lost health, and disappears without upkeep, main sources are your 5th level talent pick and certain career abilities

They're both high priority for survival, they both have similar purposes of keeping health from taking the hit, but perform very differently, is my point

[marsh gyro]

You'll want to look at scripts/settings/damage/push_settings.lua for push details which are separate from weapon specials like the bolter bash which are in scripts/settings/equipment/weapon_templates

For those who haven't visited the source code repo before, it's here:
https://github.com/Aussiemon/Darktide-Source-Code

[tough shore]

Oooo, direct data

[fierce marten]

I didn't diagree they were different in implementation but they have similar roles

[tough shore]

Yep

[haughty ember]

I'm so sad

I clutched up hard, soloed a captain from full and the next horde, got a triple rescue and then a 2014 error right before we extract

noooo

[ionic tusk]

it's way more fucked than just 20% DR

@clear ridge woe, "tank" iconic passive be upon ye

[haughty ember]

ogyrn also needs to be able to dodge through enemies because otherwise they get stuck on everything

[ionic tusk]

also these

[clear ridge]

bwuh

[ionic tusk]

I do think some iconics are listed in game but only in the class creation screen and the summary of benefits you have that no one would ever look at because 97% of it is just every talent but in vertical list form

[clear ridge]

BWUH

i didn't know about the push thing either

[ionic tusk]

helping hand has been a defining feature of ogyrn forever, the dodge thing was a patch during their rework

but yeag, not just interruption, push resistance heheho

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3094034467

here's the source, a kali guide

ingame on class creation screen

vet

arbites

hive scum

[clear ridge]

oh, does zealot not have anything?

[ionic tusk]

nope
neither does psyker

[ionic tusk]

was wrong about the summary of benefits, doesn't include iconics, so it IS entirely useless

[clear ridge]

LOL

lovely

[ionic tusk]

there was a mod to make it a tiny bit useful
but it got crept by updates
since what it did was just combine nodes

but there's many less nodes that can be combined now, it's just like, +flat toughness (unless your arbites which has those nodes as full talents which aren't combined even with the mod, purely so they could be named)

[clear ridge]

they should make zealot's don't fucking die effect an iconic

since it's a mandatory node now

[ionic tusk]

this is a good thing tho because you're not creeping around the tree picking up 3-4 +5% DR nodes, you're getting a single +10% DR node and a fancier talent with 10% DR minimum

I agree but it's fine as an anchor node

I would personally make the 1 hp part an iconic but the the health regen an anchor node

or have them both be anchor nodes at different parts of the tree

[clear ridge]

they should also make psykers deal more damage to daemonhosts

[ionic tusk]

arbites is the only class where the iconic feels super strange

the others are either minor, don't do anything until later, or compensate for downsides (like ogyrn's big hitbox)

[clear ridge]

i wouldn't call scum's minor

[ionic tusk]

arbites is like "here have a bonus trust 4 player"

[clear ridge]

and it comes in immediately

[ionic tusk]

it's not the minor category

you can't use it until trust level 5

[clear ridge]

or, i guess not immediately

fair

[ionic tusk]

and their low level is notorious

wheras at that point on all other classes you have like 4 toughness regen nodes already

instead of 1-2

it's literally impossible to make a vet now without a toughness regen node

[clear ridge]

it's also kind of fucked up that scum doesn't end with 35 juice

they start with 10 at 5

and then go up by 5/5

...until 30, where they don't get anything

so they end with 30

[ionic tusk]

I'm wondering if it was unintentional for them to start with 10 instead of 5

[clear ridge]

but they had 30 at 25

[ionic tusk]

and they didn't notice because they were just testing at 30 at the end

[clear ridge]

nah, 5 at 5 would've been dogshit

[tough shore]

So it looks like the weapon templates actually list per weapon specific push radiuses, then an inner and outer… 'push rad'? Uses pi, so it could be an angle, but even outer push rad on shivs only goes to 1π. Both reference different push strengths from settings/damage/damage_profiles/common_damage_profiles_templates.lua. outer on shivs is light push:

power_distribution = {
        attack = 0,
        impact = {
            4,
            8,
        },
    },

inner is "ninja push":

power_distribution = {
        attack = 0,
        impact = {
            6,
            10,
        },
    },

Also in these templates is ones for psyker_push and psyker_push_outer, gonna look at other weapons for a sec

[ionic tusk]

true, couldn't even get the instant toughness regen yet

[clear ridge]

10 base gets you all the pre-capstone nodes

of a tree

which is respectable

maybe they could've done 5 at level 1

to 10 at 5

[marsh gyro]

Yeah each push has an inner and outer component so the outside of the crowd doesn't get quite as pushed as the person in front of you; pushing the weak spot usually has double efficacy too

[ionic tusk]

also in terms of psyker
they used to have the amazing stat of stamina regen delay
it just got powercrept

unlocking peril stuff is definitely something they pay for though

[clear ridge]

people keep saying that they've been dethroned as squishiest, but i super disagree now that my scum is 30

[ionic tusk]

staves + blitzes are insane

[clear ridge]

unless you're a full staff soulfire build, psyker is still frailer

and unforchies i hate the visual design of the staves so i don't use them

[cyan depot]

Psyker has a lot of % damage reduction and easy to trigger generous toughness regen so they can be tankier than their dogshit stats indicate

[ionic tusk]

squishiest is subjective
I have a psyker build that can tank anything that's not a boss or a burster just due to chain knockdown + bubble
stat wise, squishy, in practice, super tanky

[cyan depot]

Gunpsyker is kind of unambiguously frailer yeah

[tough shore]

Push radius on combat_sword_p1_m1… I think this is the default mark of the parry sword? Has radius 2.5. different inner rad, outer rad is still 1π. Does the game double it so the angle is from both directions from the push direction?

forcesword_2h_p1_m1 is the big psyker force sword. Slightly bigger radius at 2.75. uses default and light pushes with warp "damage" instead.

[clear ridge]

that's fair, but all of the best stuff is in soulfire or the force swords

[ionic tusk]

gun psyker is kind of just sad

better exe stance vet but you can't regen ammo

[clear ridge]

of course, i do this to myself because i hate swords and i don't like the staff visuals

so i don't use any psyker unique weapons lol

[cyan depot]

Since honestly this single talent gives a lot of the classes' durability imo

[ionic tusk]

like the staff attack visuals? or the staves themselves

[marsh gyro]

Melee psyker got all the super toughness regen compared to gunker

[clear ridge]

yeah soulstealer assail is crazy, true

[ionic tusk]

because I have a mod and flames are invisible for me lmao

[clear ridge]

the staff designs

i hate the doofy-ass book on a stick design

[ionic tusk]

maybe you could brew something with extended weapon customization

[tough shore]

Where the hell is push_psyker used then…? Huh.

[ionic tusk]

turn the staff into a gun or something

[tough shore]

Because impact 100 is crazy

[ionic tusk]

push psyker is probably the force push some psyker weapon's have as special actions (?)

[marsh gyro]

Should be laspistol IIRC

[tough shore]

what category would they fall under?

[cyan depot]

It's probably the laspistol yeah

psykers get a cranked force push on their laspistol for some reason

[marsh gyro]

Normal laspistol push is a ninjafencer push

[clear ridge]

oh??

TIL this as well

knowledge acquired

[ionic tusk]

did you see the patch where psyker get's better riposte on dueling sword for the cost of peril

and there was a later patch where they actually added it as text iirc

[clear ridge]

i did not

[cyan depot]

Oh that's neat

Nice compensation for it not being a psyker unique

[tough shore]

Holy shit you're right. Huh? It has a special version for psykers only

[clear ridge]

i wish that psykers would get good melees other than swords tho

[ionic tusk]

most of the people I have played with have never used the parry on dueling sword

[cyan depot]

A force axe would be dope

[ionic tusk]

including me lmao

[clear ridge]

i want a khornate game mostly because they love axes

but I'd love a halberd for the psyker

[ionic tusk]

no man's land update

[marsh gyro]

It can and will explode you at max peril

[clear ridge]

or a glaive

or a power glove

[tough shore]

Okay, so the push on this ranged weapon does not have 360 degrees.

inner_push_rad = math.pi * 0.04,
outer_push_rad = math.pi * 0.1,

For both. I assume that's true across all guns?

[clear ridge]

actually wait what are the fucked up chainsaw power gloves called?

gimme a wizard version of that on psyker

[ionic tusk]

so they updated the text on december 2nd, the mechanic itself was added september 23rd in bound by duty
not as long as I thought tbh

[clear ridge]

(i would also be happy with a force axe though)

[cyan depot]

A power fist would be sick

[neat dew]

https://tenor.com/view/serpentine-gif-5767901

[brazen fossil]

I want the powerclaw/bnoltgun gountlet

[cyan depot]

I couldn't complain about a navy breacher chainfist though

A lot of the navy breacher weapons would be dope

[tough shore]

For those with pushes, i mean

[cyan depot]

Man portable multilaser

Bigger shotgun shield

huge axe

[ionic tusk]

that looks like a combat axe tbh

[cyan depot]

It'd basically just be a bigger two handed one

[tough shore]

Also, holy shit the psyker push on this laspistol goes 10 units. What.

[ionic tusk]

it probably costs peril

[tough shore]

Was told earlier, yes

[fierce marten]

I'd want power claws

[cyan depot]

Oh it's a power axe, so probably more comparable to the relic blade

[fierce marten]

Or if not cowards then power Lance or spears

[cyan depot]

My actual breacher glup shitto would be a Geistskull blitz

[ionic tusk]

yesss give me a power thrusting weapon 🙏

[clear ridge]

i just want any two-handed axe

but a 2h power axe would fuck

what I really, really want though

is some kind of warp gun

[cyan depot]

It's kind of funny how rare that is in 40k

[clear ridge]

yeah it's just like

eldar shit and then the shokk gun?

[marsh gyro]

Wouldn't a warp gun's magazines be like 60% daemon by volume

[clear ridge]

probably some necton stuff now that they've been retconned to all warp

[cyan depot]

There's a couple of other ork guns which are warp weapons

I don't think the necrons have any

[clear ridge]

I'm still salty about the necrons being retconned to warp shit ngl

[cyan depot]

They haven't been?

[clear ridge]

I'd heard otherwise

[cyan depot]

People say a lot of stuff haha

[clear ridge]

I'd heard otherwise a lot, tbh

[cyan depot]

My guess is that if there's a kernal of truth to it its that the old reactionless drives were changed to be really rare and the necrons primarily use hijacked webway gates for FTL

[fierce marten]

Pretty rare but ad mech have omnissiah axe

[cyan depot]

But necrons not using warp stuff is a long established significant thing about their faction

[tough shore]

Anyways that was some informative data

It looks like most melee doesn't vary from 2.5-2.75 radius. Push strength absolutely varies. It looks like the "damage" of the push may have an impact if they made sure to set it to warp for psyker force swords? I did figure armor has fun interactions with all impact.

[fierce marten]

That's the only 2 handed axe I can think of that isn't Khorne

[cyan depot]

Astorath has a big 2 handed axe but they're pretty rare

(And also a Mr. Not Appearing in Darktide)

[brazen fossil]

I wish ogryn rock was quick throw

[ionic tusk]

p sure there's a mod for it

sometimes I wish zealot knives weren't quick throw so I can get aiming lines heheho

[marsh gyro]

It throws faster if you underhand it

[ionic tusk]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/480
this one, you can set it to automatically throw an underhand on a key press

[clear ridge]

saame

[heavy geyser]

There's a consistent shorthand for landing long-range Zealot knife throws! If you ping someone and the red skull appears over their head, place the Aiming Pixel right at the very crown of that red skull. That's consistently the right compensation where the arc will drop and land headshots at far range.

[fierce marten]

What a good name
https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1pgnn1h/played_a_game_with_an_absolute_legend_today/

[heavy geyser]

If you practice enough and just "see" the skull you can hit the offset withouut it, but it's always that exact distance above their heads

[fierce marten]

Webway isnt warp

But it is lame Necrons use webway, an Old Ones creation

Reactionless drive was more in theme to me as, nah screw you Old Ones we made our own FTL that doesnt use yours

[fierce marten]

Yea or just imagine the offset

I like how its instant, its just your crosshairs at the time

[cyan depot]

The inertialess stuff is still around some, as is some other basement universe stuff

[fierce marten]

Yea but Dolmen gates made them win the war basically, and needing a ctan to make them so they can use the webway is like, doesnt hit as hard for me

[marsh gyro]

Was the idea on reactionless drive just hitting the gas pedal for eons and having good brakes?

[brazen fossil]

its more a skill issue of mine, I get killed often because I switch to gun instead of melee after using rock

[fierce marten]

I forgot that was a thing, I use a mod to change my blitz to go back to the weapon I had before I threw it

https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1pgfso4/what_is_the_charge_eating_redemption/

[brazen fossil]

this, this is kinda really game changing

[ionic tusk]

AfterBlitz, yeah

[fierce marten]

Afterblitz & Autoblitz wombo combo

[ionic tusk]

throw all the rocks

[fierce marten]

Im a fan of blitz bar but it is abandoned unfortunately

[brazen fossil]

I moreso just want to throw a rock faster

without having imputs to mess up

ultrakill flashbacks

[ionic tusk]

iirc there's also some tech with the ogyrn throws and skipping excess animations but I don't play ogyrn so I don't really know if that's true or not

[slender shell]

Speaking of new possible weapons https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/IIRW8Oec3J

Come on give me the chain glaive

[clear ridge]

chain glaive and power spear

actually, on the topic of adding polearms

give me

a fucking hunting lance for the vet

[worldly talon]

We got the outfit

We still need the weapon

[clear ridge]

[heavy geyser]

one chainsword one power sword is a real good concept.

[fierce marten]

We got a relic blade we could get discount lightning claws

[sonic elbow]

a gun that shoots antibiotics

[fierce marten]

Admonition gets a gun that shoots probiotics

[tough compass]

One way or another it stops the disease being your concern

[worldly talon]

I'd trying to think to Necromunda for what could be future Scum weapons

But everything I can think of that would be thematically appropriate really wouldn't fit with the class's playstyle

like the harpoon launcher

Most of the other stuff is kind of already in there as multi-class

Like revolvers, sawn-offs, and bullet-hose autoguns

And most of the more exotic stuff is like...Very Necromunda House specific?

[sonic elbow]

harpoon gun reload animation with every reload speed buff this class can get

[clear ridge]

it's just the two, right?

outside of guns themselves

just the speedload node and the stimm, yeah?

[sonic elbow]

oh yeah only two

but both +30%

[fierce marten]

House specific indeed

House Spyre: We have astartes at home

[soft summit]

Don't the houses of Necromunda have an STC in secret

Or at least one of them

The reasons they dont tell anyone is because if the Mechanicus hears they'd burn the planet down to find it

[pseudo copper]

Arbites is 25% off, is he worth it?

[soft summit]

Yes imo

[pseudo copper]

How he plays? at worst I heard he plays like "Ogryn 2"

And I do love shotgun in games but found the veteran shotguns lacking, does he 'solve' that issue?

[soft summit]

Yes

Arbites have the best shotgun, at least when I played an arbites

[clear ridge]

god, please let them fucking change how the combat shotty works

it's so tilting that its special ammo is one shot manually loaded every time

[sonic elbow]

is it really an issue?

[pseudo copper]

And how his playstyle goes usually?

[sonic elbow]

arbites is at least as tanky as ogryn but plays nothing like it tbh

the comparison comes from the casual face tanking

hard to pin down The arbites playstyle because the class comes with a lot of broad buffs that can make any loadout work

[pseudo copper]

That's understandable. I usually go something to aggro/support, I love the Veteran Shouts for free thoughtless or the Ogryn aggro shout.

[soft summit]

They do pretty good crowd control yeah

[pseudo copper]

Oh that's great, thank ya

[sonic elbow]

the class's standout feature in just about every build is probably making space

[clear ridge]

it's extremely annoying, yes

there is no situation in which you're only using one slug

[pseudo copper]

Yeah, having a tube feature like buckshot roulette would be great

[clear ridge]

or one spreadshot round

[sonic elbow]

with your buffs you could stagger everything with a pool noodle, all three abilities work to prevent you from being overrun, and the dog can passively protect you from specials and bowl over enemies around you

[pseudo copper]

Oh sounds great!

[clear ridge]

if you're using slugs it's because you're shooting at range

and nothing that you care about dies in one slug

so you need to load -> shoot -> load -> shoot (and often load + shoot again) even for gunners or dreg ragers

if you're using spread, you're clearing hordes, which aren't going to be one convenient wave of weezer-walkers

you'll want more than one

so you're loading repeatedly there as well

[pseudo copper]

Yeah, at that point you better just bring a revolver and deal with horders with melee

[clear ridge]

incendiaries, sure whatever, you'll probably only shoot once for a burn...but that's only because you have to load every shot

[sonic elbow]

I assume they made it one at a time to avoid the confusion of filling up to your current magazine cap

[clear ridge]

not because you don't want to shoot again

[clear ridge]

it fills over your mag

[sonic elbow]

and like what would happen if you were to reload with special shells left

[clear ridge]

it goes to x (+1)

[cyan depot]

I think it’s mostly to keep the fire rate slow for strong shells

[clear ridge]

the same as how it happens now?

you reload and the special shells go to the top

[cyan depot]

You can see the wrinkles that design causes with the weird arbites parallel ammo tracker as well

[clear ridge]

it's just that the special shells aren't even close to strong enough for their load speed

ime

[spiral badger]

They are for the specific things theyre good at, which are occasional

So it shouldn't matter

[sonic elbow]

no I agree that aside from the fire shell you're very rarely only shooting one

but letting you load more would lead to some real jank where either your ability to fire normal shells is locked until you empty your specials, you reload on top of them and get a trail mix in your tube, or the shells teleport around

all of which sound like scenarios you'd want to avoid as a dev not making a milsim

[spiral badger]

The special shells are what, slug (I can see the argument here but I just fire that one normally, its still tight) fire (fire once into the horde) stun shock (see previous) and armor cracker (fire once into big target)

I dont really fire more than one at a time anyway

[sonic elbow]

I have a build that uses spread shells exclusively

[spiral badger]

Oh right, the duckbill one

That one probably should be a choke swap rather than a special shell

[clear ridge]

slugs and spread should just be a swap

i would accept the other specials as single-shell, but those two are too distinct in terms of range-play

i'd rather they just go "fuck it, realism who" and make it like

a stance swap, and your different special ammo take different amounts of shotgun ammo

[sonic elbow]

fuck it, tube swap

[clear ridge]

spread can be 1-to-1 because there's zero reason to make it worse

[sonic elbow]

you yank it out and get a different one

[tough compass]

The Imperium has nanites, but they are exclusively used for modifying the properties of shotguns during combat

[flint moss]

this could be true with no issues for sime kind of force shotgun

[clear ridge]

it wouldn't be the dumbest arbitrary decision in the imperium

[spring lynx]

Van Saar have a slightly busted STC that is giving them a rad poisoning however it means they have a lot of cool tech stuff

[soft summit]

That would still be cause for a Mechanicus Crusade

[spring lynx]

It is their closest kept secret and iirc the ruling House of Necromunda looks the other way so the Mechanicus don't fuck up the planet trying to get it

[spring lynx]

Just saw you already typed this lol

[soft summit]

No worries lol

[spring lynx]

I do enjoy Necromunda for how much is going on there and the planet so you can just engineer a lot of scenarios etc

One of the things I love about Darktide is how they nail the ridiculous scale of a Hive City

The skybox for the new mission is great for illustrating just how colossal Tertium is

[tough compass]

The one with the escort ship hovering in the background is another good example

[flint moss]

they had hired gun gibing them some examples to work off of

[tough compass]

The Scum build where you take only one node in the stimm lab so you can drop exploding stimm packs every <15 seconds seems pretty funny

[dawn totem]

"My skin's pealing off but my gut feels great!" 🤢 👍

[mortal crystal]

Van Saar

It's killing them btw.

Radiation poisoning

[tough compass]

Why don't they just stay farther away from the radiation STC

[uneven turret]

they need to get a good look at them

[tough compass]

I'm sure it gives off a very pretty blue colour

[brave otter]

A two handed axe would kick ass
I want the two handed chainaxe the Maulers use honestly

[brave otter]

I've been messing around with the dueling sword recently and keep wanting to use the parry for Ragers (this hasn't been working well)

[cyan depot]

That would be sick

Also some arbites guns I’d like to see

(Heavy stubber, grenade launcher, shotgun sniper rifle, and Webber)

[uneven turret]

just give the arbites the ogryn stubber /j

[tough compass]

I want the shutgunsniper because it is so silly

Disappointed the heavy stubber isn't some sort of shotgun

[uneven turret]

i want that one because id like some long range in dt

[brave otter]

I always approve of more chainsaw grip guns

[uneven turret]

scab sniper rifle but for the rejects

[drowsy tusk]

Eh a rifled barrel 12 gauge with a scope is a classic for medium game in parts of the us with denser foliage, inside 150 yards the lower velocity matters a lot less

[haughty ember]

Having gotten to Arbites level 24 I think the overwhelming feeling I've gotten is safety

They don't have the insane damage output that other classes can get and even compared to ogryn the output isn't as good since you don't have the "all weapons are at least okay at horde clear" that ogryn does, but everything arbites gets makes them incredibly safe

huge stagger, weapons get bonus extra stagger, dog to dispatch stuff that you're too busy to deal with, ability to just refill your toughness meter and give you huge DR, etc

[ionic tusk]

imo arbites had a few defining features that are more normal now ie big + cleave talents and passive toughness regen

both ogyrns and arbites:

• most builds have crowd control (weapons with high impact and cleave, knockdown ability, debuff ability)
• many builds have toughness regen without needing kills or even present enemies

[marsh gyro]

The arbitrator puppy just being able to turn off a bad gunner is a huge peace of mind

[ionic tusk]

but arbites has a few movement speed talents that can make them super fast

if you want you can bring tac axe and only do single target with castigators- but that's not the norm

[ionic tusk]

at lot of the time, it feels like free brain burst imo

except instead of damage focused it's cc focused

[fierce marten]

I think arbites has 3 and that gives them the most movement speed

[ionic tusk]

if you like vet shout you'll probably like drive them back
it's a directional shout that has a far shorter cooldown (and some other buffs)

[marsh gyro]

Tac axe arbitrator is undeniably powerful and also is so much clicking

[ionic tusk]

they have 4 at least and most also grant another benefit

• top one that's +10% movement speed and damage on specialist/elite kill
• keystone +10% movement speed and damage on dog pounce
• like +15% movement speed on ranged hit
• +5% sprint speed on slide and stamina back on kill

🤔 most of their weapons are on the slower side though so I think this might be compensating for that

[marsh gyro]

Castigator Stance is a big boost too so you Quake strafe walk when proccing bonuses with it up

[ionic tusk]

ie you can put it on the +.09/+.27 weapons they start with and keep up with the faster weapons
but you can also put it on the tac axe or one of the pistols and move around at the speed of sound

[fierce marten]

Gun arbites eating fast

I take top and pounce one with stance, im basically "walking" at sprint speed during a stance so its like not an issue at all not sprinting

[ionic tusk]

yeah that was one of my older builds that got deleted by the talent wipe and I'm sad because I don't remember it very well heheho

[fierce marten]

i mean lets be real you can just vibe build an arbites and still come close to an S tier build

[ionic tusk]

I've mostly been taking the slide/stamina regen one with drive them back to make push -> sweep hordeclear on the mace feel better

[ionic tusk]

eh I disagree if only because the standard for S tier is so high right now with "I kill everyone and also support the team the most and am still hella tanky" vet

[fierce marten]

Thats not a arbites

[ionic tusk]

ah
thought you meant S tier overall

[fierce marten]

Ah I meant S tier arbites build

The power gap between like just a build and a meta one is not huge like other classes

[ionic tusk]

I have seen people avoid all the good toughness regen talents on arbites and suffer for it

tru

[fierce marten]

I take the stamina on kill node to free up triple stamine regen perks on curios

[ionic tusk]

do you have any +3 stamina curios?

[fierce marten]

No

1 HP and 2 Toughness, HP to reach a 50 hp increment breakpoint and toughness mostly for gunners

[ionic tusk]

understandable
I think I run x3 toughness combat ability minor toughness stamina regen

[fierce marten]

Cause I always take the 50 max damage talent

I do abliity regen, gunners, revive speed

[ionic tusk]

oh right revive speed is good now
my boomer brain is still stuck in the era where it didn't apply to assists or rescues (?)

[fierce marten]

Which I only recently learned that triple gunners is still 20% as even though its multiplicative in terms of damage resistance value the effects of that 12%ish is around 20% more EHP against gunners

[ionic tusk]

it also only applies to gunners right? not plasma gunners, reapers, shotgunners, or stalkers

[fierce marten]

Basically automatic weapons, regular scab/dreg, elite variants, reapers

So not including plasma gunner oor shotgunners

[ionic tusk]

huh
I've always been told it only applied to gunners specifically

I'll have to look into it more since resisting reapers is a much better deal than I thought heheho

[fierce marten]

Theres a datamine, im not certaini but I think its oddly tied to like type of weapon

Its still quite a lot of resistance to a variety of common enemies so you really only need to worry about the deadly ones and those gunners are a nonfactor really

Triple Revive speed is a game changer cause its oddly additive, so 36% revive, rescue speed

[ionic tusk]

is it speed on top of 100% or % of base action time?

[fierce marten]

Now including trapper net, falls, rescues

I cant say but its pretty noticeable

[ionic tusk]

'cause if it was a % increase in speed upwards multiplicative would give 1.56x which would be better

actually multiplicative down would also be faster 🤔

[fierce marten]

No clue, I could very much be reddit one guy'd on this but after testing it, its now just a mandatory on every character

[ionic tusk]

at 59% time taken instead of 64% time taken I put the wrong number into the calculator, it'd be 68% vs 64%

oh yeah it helps a lot either way

[fierce marten]

Taking the zealot/ogyrn revive talents doesnt seem to really have a noticeable diminishing return if you take triple revive speed

[ionic tusk]

it's probably multiplicative then, or seperate
because additive up would have diminishing returns and additive down would get freakishly better the more you had

[fierce marten]

It does feel freakishly fast

Like I could revive then overhand throw a nade as a vet before the stagger on a shout ends

Zealot I can shroudfield much sooner before starting a revive and still have time to line up a heavy backstab to suppress nearby enemies before shroudfield ends

[ionic tusk]

zealot's node is +30% right
and then with another +36%
1-(.3+.36)= 34% time taken

[drowsy vine]

I wouldn't call vet S tier either

[brave otter]

I am having a hard time getting used to the fact that Darktide sometimes turns into a normal FPS instead of a horde shooter
I think the single deadliest thing for me thusfar has been '8 or so dreg lasgun dudes shooting at us from an area inaccessible to melee'

[ionic tusk]

what would you call S tier? or is nothing S tier

[drowsy vine]

Are we talking absolute endgame havoc 40?

[ionic tusk]

hm
I'd personally have 2 tier lists
one for quickplay auric and one for premade havoc 40

since some builds are more team comp dependent which is less of an issue in havoc (especially if you're playing with friends instead of party finder)

[dawn totem]

Trying to work on a pickaxe/grenade gauntlet build for my ogryn

[ionic tusk]

and different parts of vet shine in each of those contexts
survivalist is stronger in havoc than in auric since every other ammo source is reduced but survivalist isn't

[drowsy vine]

Auric pretty much anything can work imo, but overall Zealot is still the most consistent and reliable class into H40 even after the vet rework. The vet rework didn't really change anything about the class being awful at clutching

[ionic tusk]

what builds for zealot?

[drowsy vine]

don't got anything on hand for ya

[ionic tusk]

like just ability/keystone/weapons

because to me clutching isn't really a role

you need something to get through the mission, not just recover from stuff going wrong

and zealot does have several very good tools they're just not super compatible with each other so I'm curious which ones are being used

[worldly talon]

House Van Saar has an STC fragment that is constantly putting out lethal amounts of radiation

Which is why they have the suits. Because otherwise the entire House would be dead by age 30

[drowsy vine]

Sure, I'm saying Zealot can use most of whatever to do that; even just a straightforward fury/charge/eviscerator/your choice of pistol build works

[worldly talon]

Spyrers also aren't a House

They're literally bored nobles with teched-up supersuits that are cosplaying Predator on the Underhivers

[ionic tusk]

fair yeah

blight spreads is also back in rotation so the corruption clearing aura has rocketed up in power level again 🤔

[dawn wolf]

i love my autogun

[brave otter]

Ooooo that's a lovely look
I'm trying to find cool Zealot stuff but their cosmetics aren't that great
I saw one person in a getup that looked like Sister Of Battle stuff but I suspect that was a premium cosmetic not currently in rotation

[drowsy vine]

there's absolutely good zealot cosmetics, but yeah a lot of the premium ones now aren't great

fatshark has a weird obsession with bizarre masks and hoods

And the pants are often godawful - the ones I'm using now I had to wait a long time to find lol

[warped crown]

anyone know if there's a widow's peak haircut in the game?

[flint moss]

im just using the leather pants from the voidsman set

[flint moss]

i believe not

[brave otter]

The second one is the one I saw!
Very nice change of pace from the usual 'pile of burlap and bible pages'

[fierce marten]

Its mostly premium but theres some good stuff

My only complaint is the lack of excessive wax seal options

[cyan depot]

They’re for me

[warped crown]

something that bothers me is
why do they give you body tattoo options if most cosmetics cover over them?

at least the zealot ones i've seen do

[clear ridge]

for the ones that don't

and/or so you know they're there

for your blorbos

[brave otter]

Darktide feels like a game I'm willing to buy cosmetics for so far

[marsh gyro]

The discounted aquilas pack is enough for exactly one blorbo to look good

[brave otter]

I think that's exactly how many I need
Not interested in veteran, psyket, or arbites, hive scum free cosmetics are cool enough, and
I don't think ogryns will ever look cool enough to spend money on

[fierce marten]

I want cosmetics but few actually resonant to me

[slender shell]

I picked up the athononian set for my ogryn but really peak ogryn is shorts only no shoes no shirt

[drowsy vine]

grob begs to differ

[brave otter]

Alright, decent but I'm not big on the mutton chops

[drowsy vine]

its okay to be wrong :p

ogryns have a good variety of facial hair at least

[worldly talon]

Kronk finds your lack of faith disturbing

[worldly talon]

Kronk is a Fashion

[opaque crown]

The ogryn voice that goes to stand outside the barber shop to watch all the people he thinks are uglier than him is hilarious

"Me? Nah I'm perfect"

[fierce marten]

Doesn't need a haircut, any change to perfection is a downgrade

[heavy geyser]

My Zealot fit ended up blending real well with all the hive scum

black robe with red lining was only available for six weeks out of the three years this game has been out. I'm not sure what their rotation plan is for these things.

[spring lynx]

Damn that's a Zealot fit?

[heavy geyser]

Sure is!

The top is called Shadow Sanctum Garb or similar and the pants are "Hell Town Specials"

[ionic tusk]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1361210/view/508473076443252559?l=english

bunch of bug fixes and balance!

[shrewd kite]

talent tree reshuffle, so you'll need to change your builds up

but the changes look really solid, buff to the rocket launcher and the stimm supply fix are great

[ionic tusk]

known issue

[ionic tusk]

apparently not destructive to loadouts at least! so you don't have to recreate everything that didn't change from memory

[shrewd kite]

and damn, they buffed the shivs? I was not under the impression that they needed it but i'm not complaining

pretty minor buff all considered, but still

chem toxin kills counting for desperado means there is theoretically a chems-perado build out there where you use the exploding toxin to wipe hordes. hmmmm

[ionic tusk]

🤔 ime it was already counting for desperado

[shrewd kite]

huh! i just never even thought about needle pistol with desperado but fair enough

[ionic tusk]

magdumping bosses with infinite ammo is nice 😌

I think desperado had a special clause to let needle pistol work with it
but maybe it wasn't working right all the time

[ionic tusk]

it looks like burst of energy (+50% toughness on toughness break) and tis but a scratch (30% toughness back over time on take ranged hit) are in very central places now

[shrewd kite]

do you still need to go all the way down most of th emiddle keystone to get hive city brawler or whatever the 20% dr one is?

[ionic tusk]

and now cheap shots and like the wind are above it

[shrewd kite]

the new position of Sticky Hands is a bit annoying imo, but otherwise it looks good

big fan of Burst of Energy being so easy now

[shrewd kite]

ok yeah stimm supply is good now

[ionic tusk]

it was good before just incompatible with dependency

[shrewd kite]

yeah that's what i mean

you can run a pure-chem build with decent results now, although i'm taking the rocket launcher on my chem build

[ionic tusk]

dependency is still in a weird spot where the +cooldown buff doesn't really matter to many stim supply builds

[shrewd kite]

mmhmm i'm trying a build that's just going down the top right / bottom left trees

[ionic tusk]

because you can get % based reduction on kill on stim cooldown

the other stuff is still great tho

[drowsy vine]

missile launcher buffed, we're so back

[ionic tusk]

wait so. since they specifically made it apply only to needle pistol
bone saw users are still kinda screwed

imo it should be everything but the blitzes themselves that count for blinder/blackout regeneration

[fierce marten]

Yesss blinders back I action

And Chem dependency too, how nice

[shrewd kite]

hmmm, i wonder if pocket toxin is actually worth using with the rocket launcher. probably not tbh

[fierce marten]

It is very nice for blinders

Discount Chem nades that regen

[shrewd kite]

yeah i'm fine tuning my stim build. so far i've swapped the chem nade for the rocket (redundant given the explosion on the supply crate), and the bonesaw for the shivs

i think the shivs are just too good, i can't really make either of the two other scum weapons work

[slender shell]

What blessings are people going for on shivs, Full anti armor or bleed?

[dawn totem]

Can I just say that I always appreciate a good Darktide fashion show.

[soft summit]

I hope the Scum gets more cosmetics soon

Dunno what kind they'd get but

[slender shell]

All the munda gangs probably

[dawn totem]

Even with the extra acquillas there's not much on the shop I'm interested in rn.

Also waiting on new Abarties wear.

[slender shell]

Arbites cosmetics are in GW jail, theyre not happening unfortunately

[dawn totem]

Oh boooooo.

I wonder why?

Cause GW needs to approve everything first?

[slender shell]

And there's only really one cannon arbites look

[soft summit]

Hopefully Scum dont go to tje jail either

[dawn totem]

I wonder if its so there's consistency across all GW's products.

[fierce marten]

I switched from shivs to combat knife to take advantage of full 120% rending

[soft summit]

GW has a long history of being strict with licensing iirc

[fierce marten]

Also makes Chem toxins more nutty against maulers

[soft summit]

They've loosened up a bit recently but they're still pretty strict

[dawn totem]

Well here's hoping GW unclenches enough so space cops get more than a space trench coat.

[drowsy tusk]

GW products

Consistency

lol

[shrewd kite]

i went full bleed, mercy killer and flesh tearer

[fierce marten]

For that, more ultramarine releases

Knife is great on Chem scum cause you can get 20% crit chance for dodge and 20% crit chance from stim dependency on top of knife being 20% so you can get a nice 60% for flesh tearer

Also the weird uncanny for knife is still 120% rending despite scum being 40%, a much more reasonable number

[soft summit]

Are the Shivs considered bad?

[shrewd kite]

the shivs fuckin rock tbh

[fierce marten]

I just think the knives are better

[opaque crown]

i think they're fun, still havent figured out best application of the knife throw

[fierce marten]

Shivs out of the scum exclusive weapons handle carapace the best but not as well as knifeb

[opaque crown]

i think the crowbar is quite fun/good

[shrewd kite]

i just spam them into monstrosities or throw them at ragers

[opaque crown]

from the shiv?

[shrewd kite]

yeah

the toxin buildup makes a difference

[fierce marten]

The discount needle pistol if you're running a Desperado build without it

Also recharges shivs very quickly

Just spam them a lot

[slender shell]

Yeah nice to have a anti crusher option even if 3 are only enough to kill 1

[opaque crown]

so far im loving the dual stub pistols, and im still picking a melee

but the crowbar is feeling right

[shrewd kite]

the two builds i can make work so far are stubs/crowbar and shivs/needler

[opaque crown]

i havent unlocked the needler yet but im excited

[shrewd kite]

i have a shiv/needler rampage and a stim build but as of this update i think the stim build is probably a lot better

[opaque crown]

rampage seems like its gonna end up the go; but im enjoying desperado

also the stub pistol special to get a trick shot is such aura farming

out here feeling like a hive scum semi-auto ocelot

[shrewd kite]

the needler isn't really efficient enough to solo crushers but it's a fantastic softener for crushers that are targeting other players

against basically everything else it's exceptional

[fierce marten]

The area dispersal one is basically pocket chem nades

Get the 50% cleave on weakspot and if you shoot mob enemies you get like 2 shots for the price of one for the group

Combined with rending it can pretty much kill everything in a mixed horde in 2 shots to poxwalkers via spreading

Also procs talents for chem toxins

[fierce marten]

Rannick listening into the comms to check how the new hive scum are settling in

Boombringer feels a lot better now, what if I did something silly in auric mortis trials like boombringer with bolt pistol & Lethal Proxmity

[shrewd kite]

does lethal proximity buff all explosions? like that one ogryn talent?

[soft summit]

Did they nerf Chem Grenades

[clear ridge]

not that they said

[fierce marten]

It doesnt for dog plosion but does for shredders and nades iirc

[ionic tusk]

I've found it to be serviceable at it if you only really shoot armor/specialists/ranged elites/bosses and don't use the hordeclear mode

[ionic tusk]

also liking the crowbar but keeping track of 4+ crushers stagger states and overheads gets a bit dicey

[ionic tusk]

chem toxin also seems to refresh duration when re-applied so with headshots and delayed shots it might do better, probably not practical tho 🤔

[fierce marten]

Needler with deserado is interesting, Ii kept it in horde mode and just mag dumped and shredded hordes

[fierce marten]

The space marines we have on Atoma https://www.rxddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/pD4xD1inka

[silk sundial]

Shame you can’t get free currency, savlar chem dogs are my pet obscure legion

Although I much prefer the rebreather without the do rag to with

Really like the core gameplay, l4d hordes+specials mixed with standard shooter mooks+elites works really well and makes for a good mix of melee and ranger gameplay

[ionic tusk]

I think there's been 1k in free event currency now

[silk sundial]

Been mostly playing ogryn but played a psyker a bit which is a total change

The story does feel like it has the warframe issue where all lot of lore was from events you don’t have anymore but the map they led to is still there

[slender shell]

I dont think the lore is from the events, it's all in the campaign now and missions

[ionic tusk]

🤔 can't speak for the older events but a lot of the current ones don't have a storyline connected to maps
the maps have their own arcs

ie the moebian steel arc, blighted stims arc

[slender shell]

I guess the karnak twins but thats been folded into the campaign

[ionic tusk]

a lot of the time it's more subtle and hard to tell what the defined order is tho

[silk sundial]

It feels like the preacher early in the campaign woukd come back but never does, and you don’t get told why Zola is so desperate for information and what ||she has to know||

[fierce marten]

Where her brother is?

[silk sundial]

Wait what
Does that come up in that mission?
Wait, oh no

||is her brother the commander?||

[soft summit]

||Yes, Wolfer is Zola's older brother. Thats the whole reason she went after the Karnak twins, cause they could confirm this||

||I dunno how many people in-setting know this. Rannick doesn't know, for example.||

[clear ridge]

oh? where's this confirmed?

is it in mortis stuff?

[brave otter]

I'm curious to know this too
I had learned it reading around online but I had figured it'd be in a campaign mission I hadn't done yet

[soft summit]

I unfortunately do not know where I got this from, though IIRC it may be a connecting the dots via item descriptions and whatnot soulsborne stye

[drowsy tusk]

item descriptions and the out of game written sstuff on websites is a lot of stuff

[silk sundial]

You don’t find out what she’s so desperate to know explicitly, and next mission has her as ‘status unknown’ while you’re warned not to cross ranni I but she’s obviously not dead

I wish they added more weapons through free updates, stuff like plasma pistols, meltas and etc are sorely absent

[brave otter]

I wonder what a melta would even entail in this kind of game
I'm not super familiar with everything 40k but it's basically a Point Blank Instant Death Gun right

[tough compass]

Maybe like the rocket launcher, it makes more sense as a blitz

[silk sundial]

Low ammo shotgun that murderizes things but needs to be used sparingly, vet is the best choice since it’s a special weapon

[drowsy tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/ogryn-stk-goedulf-spin-rotate-gif-5132349500874882306

[tough compass]

The plasma gun already does that at range though

I guess it could be more murder at close range

[drowsy tusk]

it has a few different interpretations in various media, in some its an invisible beam that melts stuff sometimes it kinda looks like a jet of molten metal, theres also whatever the space marine games were doing

[silk sundial]

Melta is historically an anti armor killer in tabletop

[drowsy tusk]

yea its short range, low shots but big damage

[fierce marten]

I think Zola knows shes dead in the waters finding out about her brother if Rannick says youre not an agent anymore

[drowsy tusk]

sad they didnt do dual las pistol on the scum, its the iconinc weapon of kal jericho who is what the deluxe coat and hairstyle are based on

i dont need stuff to work too differently from other stuff, i just want more vibes

[fierce marten]

Its not confirmed but so heavily implied it might as well be, event with ritual shows wolfers "true identity" which the first name is a variant of her brother's code name. Mortis Trial reveals Zola and her Brother never used their real name but similar codenames and his was like Bryon last she saw him.

Also if Wolfer is her brother, she doesnt know why he would become a chaos cultist, he specifically left her alone to be part of the tithe to do his duty for imperium and was fairly loyal.

Also mortis trials reveals with a conversation between rannick and zola that she isnt sure what to do if she learns the truth or what it will really accomplish when asked by rannick.

[brave otter]

I was thinking hive rocket launcher too yeah
But adding more blitzes seems Funky

[tough compass]

It's for when they add the SoB noviatiate obvs.

[brave otter]

Considering rn the Major Class Stuff is one per talent tree

[clear ridge]

maybe he saw servitors being made

or one of a million other things

but yeah fair

[brave otter]

I could genuinely see that as a Zealot like
DLC talent tree
Like how saltzpyre can become a war priest y'know

[fierce marten]

DLC talent tree would cause such an uproar

VT2 DLC careers were basically their own skilltree

[brave otter]

From the cinematic that showed them turning it kind of seems like 'they had a dick commisar, were all going to die fighting chaos, then some chaos wizard dude shot them with the Aaaa Aaaa I'm Becoming A Traitor brain ray'

[fierce marten]

The chaos blast

Woe get heretic'c

[brave otter]

The Nurgleating Beam yes

[fierce marten]

The nurglenatorium

[clear ridge]

chaos wizards rise

[silk sundial]

Assassin and sororitas both feel like they are fulfilled by zealot

[shrewd kite]

also what would male zealots get?

[silk sundial]

I’d give it to both scum and vet

A power saw for scum and zealot woukd also be fun

[brave otter]

Yeah, that's my ACTUAL take
I am playing an SoB every time I log on to Darktide
She has a bolt pistol, an eviscerator, a bowl cut, and that kind of crazy but also hot paladin voice
All the boxes ticked
And the stealth tree for Zealot is def meant to have that death cult vibe too

[shrewd kite]

see, i kind of agree with this, but also if you had asked me a few months ago i would have said that the hive scum class fantasy is covered by vet

[clear ridge]

i don't play vet much, do they actually uh

have any unique weapons?

[brave otter]

They get a few
Hellbore lasgun, plasma gun, two kinds of power sword

Thats all I can recall off the top of my head

[shrewd kite]

the new power falchion and the shovels are also unique to them

well, their shovels.. the ogryns obviously get theirs

iirc the bolter used to be unique to them until arby too?

[brave otter]

Oh also shovels yeah
How exciting

[brave otter]

Zealots also get bolters

[shrewd kite]

ahhh right

[clear ridge]

oh right the helbore

god i hate that gun lol

[tough compass]

Bolters are holy weapons of the Emperor after all

[brave otter]

(Because they are sisters of battle)

[shrewd kite]

anyway if you look at the crusher as an example then premium classes are gonna get class exclusives when it makes sense. so if they ever do add an admech class they're 100% gonna get the plasma gun

[tough compass]

AdMech might get a plasma caliver instead. Totally a different gun

[slender shell]

Better get a arquebus

[tough compass]

Although cool, it doesn't seem great for the type of ranges you typically fight at in the game

Clearly they need to add a sawn-off Arquebus

[fierce marten]

I say SoB because we got an all male class Ogyrn so we need an all female class to balance it out

[spiral badger]

There is still not technically formal confirmation that wolfer is zolas brother, just a lot of reasonable evidence

[tough compass]

Its Zola still part of the warband because canonically you succeed? Or because Grendyl runs the opposite of a tight ship

[spiral badger]

Yes

[tough compass]

I do wish the PCs would comment a bit more on being used for extraneous missions. It seems a bit weird when their handlers are fighting each other and they make zero quips lol

[brave otter]

I figured they're largely in 'I am gonna do what I'm told so I don't eat a bullet' mode

Your PC is on Extremely Shaky Ground and all that

[tough compass]

Yeah, but I feel like it should be a bit more stated at times

[clear ridge]

or they could just add a female ogryn body type

[fierce marten]

Needs to be lore accurate and be monstrous

[fierce marten]

They do at first but between themselves

After rolling steel though were not expendable were like full on part of the warband

[brave otter]

That reminds me
How do you even access rolling steel
Do you need to be trust level 30?

[fierce marten]

Its mostly cause shes a native to Atoma and knows the underhive politics intimately, something an offworlder in the band wont know and Zola is loyal(?) which is key for an inquisitor

Morrow oversees the rejects mostly for missions now

Ever since Zola was reprimanded for making us go after Wolfer despite being told to retreat

[soft summit]

Isnt Zola like, third in command

After Grendyl and Rannick

I recall her basically being Rannick's apprentice

[fierce marten]

2nd in command to Rannick

So Grendyl as Inquistor, then Rannick as Interrogator, then formerly Zola as wyrmwood agent (shes now an interrogator too per Grendyl and Rannick was not a happy camper)

[tough compass]

Oh, she got promoted?

[fierce marten]

Yea its a line in mortis trials

Which I wish they just had a library of it in game by talking to morrow in the psych

Instead of him just replaying random memories

Oh wait not interrogator but explicator

So Zola is still under rannick

[tough compass]

Oh, yeah she's been an Explicator since release

[fierce marten]

Trials gets vague with timeline cause it's just, past memories whether they remember or not as witb Morrow

[silk sundial]

Melta, grenade launcher, hotshot las pistol and long lad are things vet could get

Also powerfist

[brave otter]

hotshot las pistol sounds fun
I doubt a meltagun is going to show up as a normal weapon, especially for Veteran
Given I imagine it would either be undertuned to the point of not making sense with the rest of the canon or given a very very small ammo supply

Which would work against veteran being the 'mostly shoots' guy

[frank igloo]

the blast radius on the buffed rockets is insane now, i shot the crusher and the scab gunner died, bulwark takes 2/3rds damage

[split mantle]

<@&1042950387478560878> leveling our hive scum

[drowsy tusk]

Play a round or 2 without me but I’ll be on soonish

[split mantle]

[dawn totem]

One sec. I'll be on. I'm leaving my space cop

[silk sundial]

I’ll definitely be trying the hive scum eventually, I really like dot characters like Amara and Koumei

[foggy panther]

From what I heard hive scum has 1 major issue at least major for some

they're quite fragile

but if you get the snowball going

as long as you can feed the snowball it will keep rolling

[silk sundial]

Hence why I want to get a good grasp of fundamentals first

Although shotgun and dog also sounds fun

[clear ridge]

yeah that's the deliberate one downside

to the class being ridiculous

[foggy panther]

yeah which is very good

in comparison to the bs that was our robocop judge dredd combo

I am still gonna wait for admech otherwise I am sticking to my psychic migraines

[silk sundial]

My brother really wa ts a skittari or admech

not sure what else you could add after that

[fierce marten]

Anything baseline human really

SoB, Sister of Silence, Assassinorum come to mind

[ionic tusk]

the preacher was inserted later
the main campaign is shoved together to try to make the onboarding better and backfired horribly imo (but is made up for with other elements being better)

[slender shell]

Sister of silence are custodes buds, dont think theyre ever going to be added

[ionic tusk]

plasma gun is ridiculous
it's like a zarona revolver if the revolver had absurdly good ammo economy or could choose to throw that away to cleave through walls, and didn't need to charge surgical
minus the revolver's speed