#dark tidings (Darktide for people in the searchbar)

1 messages · Page 23 of 1

sonic elbow
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it would be a sensible swapout but just for a dash of flavour

marsh gyro
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Give it Showstopper on parry is my play

fierce marten
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Chain sword has 2 movement boosts on special action hit and activation

sonic elbow
fierce marten
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Not suggesting this as an idea as it'd be OP but just for fun. My favorite parry is in Ravenswatch on Sun Wukong where it has a 2 second cooldown but if you block an attack it instant refreshes so it became basically a rhythm game just spamming parry and looking for gaps in attacks cause the moment you parry without actually blocking an attack you're dead

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And bullet hell enemies and bosses you got time blocks right so you don't parry to quick.

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I think that was basically the shock maul before nerf I never played only see the old reddit posts

sonic elbow
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oh yeah speaking of blessings

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I run thunderous and skullcrusher on my, well, crusher, and I wonder what can I replace on it or in my build to make it more clutch capable

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because it makes team play extremely smooth sailing but I don't have the damage output to clear everything when I'm alone

marsh gyro
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I dunno, that's kind of the best party support blessing duo since it lets you bust anything

sonic elbow
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and begrudgingly it looks like I have to start planning for that

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or maybe I should replace my shotgun

marsh gyro
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Shotty lets you take out gunners and elites, crusher for carapace, seems like you're doing fine

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Crusher push attack does huge finesse damage so it's good to use when outnumbered

sonic elbow
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YEAH ACTUALLY I was wondering about that earlier today

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it seemed so but I couldn't find the damage profile for push attack anywhere

fierce marten
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What blessing combos are fun on the combat shotgun marks

sonic elbow
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I could be stupid but it seems omitted

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which is weird because many weapons have the push attack as a capstone of their moveset

marsh gyro
fierce marten
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What's the utility? Like shooting poxbursters behind mobs?

sonic elbow
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I run scattershot and manstopper on the clothesline ammo shotty

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normal shots knock anything they don't kill in a headshot flat on its ass

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and the spread special does absurd normal enemy removal fired at head level

fierce marten
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I'm just trying new things for fun as I've played a lot of meta options already. I've been seeing more builds using fury over shroudfield especially and I want to see if there's something I'm missing

marsh gyro
sonic elbow
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the existence of shooters has pretty much reversed my stance on shooting hordes from VT

marsh gyro
fierce marten
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I do love manstopper

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It made double barrel for me

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Being able to have on demand crits as veteran and then saying if there's a specialist in this direction eat lead

sonic elbow
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fury is pretty much chain cast on a build that specs into it

marsh gyro
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Zealot with Man-Stopper and +30% impact middle tree node can hit some very funny stagger breakpoints on slug shotgun

fierce marten
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I see, I did play like 5 second shroudfields like a mad woman with invocation and backstab one

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Like heavy stagger breakpoints?

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Or mostly medium staggers

sonic elbow
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I wanna say played perfectly Forever Shroudfield is the stronger one but Forever Fury is more lenient while still potent and safe

fierce marten
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I'd say it's the utility that makes shroudfield

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Since you're completely avoiding damage so you can revive and do objectives very safely in the densest horde without clearing out the area

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So like in pub games if the 3 others are off elsewhere and not on the objective then fury is going to struggle to clear space to hold the button themselves and be sure not to be hit compared to pop shroudfield does it fine solo

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Bubble on psyker is great for a similar reason. People see bubble they go towards it

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Get your team on the objective

sonic elbow
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the middle of the zealot three is pretty strange ngl, speaking of ult choice

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every path leading to the auras/ults has like one Oh Yeah talent

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the rest being some of the most mid in the entire class

fierce marten
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Chorus is probably one of the strongest supports and if you have someone paired with you can basically do almost any objective without half your team.

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I used beacon of purity a lot during beasts of nurgle

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Not really anymore unless it's a hound and poxbursters modifier on aurics

sonic elbow
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beacon has it the worst because I genuinely do not care for any of its leadup nodes

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more impact or cheap sprint would be nice

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but they're both paired with something lame

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it's like, are you using ADS revolver/double barrel? yeah you get something out of these

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any other guns? you must really want that beacon

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(it helps that the revolver and double barrel are great, but still)

fierce marten
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Shield of comtempt is quite good for supporting your team

sonic elbow
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I was gonna say that they shouldn't be getting hit enough during the active duration to benefit but then I remember my matches and yeah uh

fierce marten
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Kind of like 60% TDR for your team 40% with no cost and effortless activation

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Often when you get hit once you get hit multiple times

sonic elbow
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the problem is it only procs on health damage

fierce marten
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Specialists are what end most games later on, something disables you to you can't react to incoming damage before it's off and you're standing up

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Oh huh its just damage reduction in general, even better

sonic elbow
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. Procs only on taking health damage (also while in downed state); always procs for Zealot if conditions are met; has no range limit when procced by allies or bots (coherency is not required). The talent can apply its damage reduction buff only once per proc. It has one global cooldown that is shared between all players (and bots). So if the talent has been procced either by Zealot or by an ally, it grants its damage reduction buff only to the player who triggered it before it goes on cooldown for 10s.

fierce marten
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Even in downed state is interesting

marsh gyro
# fierce marten Like heavy stagger breakpoints?

Slug counts as melee stagger so it bypasses ranged stagger resist, and can do heavy stagger; one slug will open up bulwark shield, knock a reaper on its butt, or two slugs knock a crusher on its back where the first does a medium stagger

fierce marten
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Really? Even the Ogyrns that wild

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Have to try that out

tough compass
sonic elbow
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it cools down while active and has no range limit so that's better than the description implies but health damage only is ehh

drowsy vine
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It means it's not wasted on hits that exclusively reduce toughness

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That's a good thing

sonic elbow
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in melee I think eating over two hits in 4s is not a common scenario

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disablers are a valid concern tho

drowsy vine
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Then it gets saved for uncommon scenarios that kill people...?

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Win/win in my book

marsh gyro
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On higher difficulties there's enough damage flying around that it's got pretty much 100% uptime

sonic elbow
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I wanna say tho the trapper/flamer combo being a thing that can happen is hilarious I love it

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accidental tactical brilliance from the AI

fierce marten
# drowsy vine Then it gets saved for uncommon scenarios that kill people...?

Yea to me what matters is does the run succeed or fail, At higher levels most players should already just not take chip damage so the only times they do tend to be burst damage of many instances of damage or a single one eats through your toughness and health at once. It's not common scenarios that ends runs it's the uncommon ones

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Everyone should have abilities tools to deal with common scenarios without at scratch at that point

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It's when you get like trapper poxbursters wombo combo and someone's down the plague Ogyrn camps them

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Or crusher pack body blocking elevator exit.

drowsy vine
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So Alder, do you agree it only proccing on health damage is fine?

fierce marten
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If it was toughness then it would be wasted if it was like poxbursters hit a zealot at 100% cause they let it hit them to secure an elite kill but they're not ever being hit below 100% toughness

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I do that often cause zealot has so many ways to regen toughness every moment so taking a Melee hit from a walker backstab at 100% toughness is 0 consequences since I'll be back to full a second later to ensure I get that revive or crusher kill

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Other nodes in beacon I'm very meh on

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I always go right path if I choose beacon though cause if I pick beacon it's often a support build so I'm gonna support more

spiral badger
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the middle of the zealot skill tree is severely distorted by duelist and holy revenant both being on the left

fierce marten
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Duelist is very strong for many breakpoints

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Especially if you have a finesse weapon or piety cause it's usually always on and zealots crit like no others

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I take it almost every build with scourge too

spiral badger
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and then on the right you have the similarly impactful Thy Wrath Be Swift

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being unstunnable is very powerful in the moments you need it

fierce marten
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I used to take it for gunners

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But now they don't really do that as much

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Dreg shotgunners specifically

spiral badger
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in particular it's really important to take if you're running Thammer Nonsense

fierce marten
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Apparently the shotgun knock back is considered slowing movement

spiral badger
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to avoid the horrific Interrupted Bonk

fierce marten
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I want to try thammer on a not 1 shot martyr build but I have weak build rafting and rely on others who are

spiral badger
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I usually just run it with piety

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here lemme gin up what I usually do

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if you don't want to stealth and would prefer more flex points you can take charge instead

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saves you some points to grab extra keystone bits or attack enhancers

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something like

ionic tusk
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I love tac axe
light attack spam (the lights have a better % vs carapace than the heavies iirc, although they still deal less damage overall) is so silly and frees up the focus for the actual dodging bits (this is on a momentum zealot)

ionic tusk
spiral badger
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yeah beacon is great for blight spreads and specifically chasing grims

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I have a build set up for it for those reasons

ionic tusk
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I think the biggest thing that's Dumb about dueling sword is that the lights are pretty decent vs horde and the heavies are amazing vs elites and specialists; that combined with it having fairly high movement speed gives it no downsides and all the upsides
I've played only light attack and only heavy attack dueling swords and they feel a lot less insane- it just needs like, ONE actual downside for it to get reigned in a lot

I think the stamina it offers is fairly low but, that doesn't matter too much since the speed and cost are great

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🤔 I do really like how accessible it is to learn though
that is also a strength, you don't need combos or anything, it just Does The Thing

heavy geyser
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shield of contempt has an internal cooldown, regardless of who on the team activates it

regal pendant
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Question

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Has Hallowette's stock been cycled yet

sonic elbow
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inexorable judgement vs blazing piety shouldn't be as hard of a choice for me as it is

marsh gyro
fierce marten
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Now I base it on, am I grabbing pious cutthroat and if so probably IJ

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If no then BP, grabbing the top performing nodes on zealot spreads your points thin so I find the return on grabbing those nodes out weighs having IJ over BP. Unless it's a crit build then BP

sonic elbow
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I swapped duckbill shotty for incendiary and man-stopper for flechette and I'm not quite feeling it

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I'm probably missing some crucial bits

marsh gyro
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Do you have scattershot

sonic elbow
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ye

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also for some reason flechette isn't carrying over to my blades of faith when it should and man-stopper did

fierce marten
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Scourge + base crit + BP is 60% crit chance not including the weapon.

A fun thing to try is riposte on knife gets you up to 95% crit chance with precog let's LMB hit many one shot breakpoints to the head since you can basically guarantee every hit will be a crit and likely a weak spot crit.

sonic elbow
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I'll try it against a boss before I go back I guess

heavy geyser
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scattershot + flechette on a crit build is the synergy for the fire shotgun

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after two special shells the DoT stacks melt hordes

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mixed hordes

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it ends up being a lot

sonic elbow
sonic elbow
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my observation coming from vermintide is that it feels much harder to not provide any value in this game

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dunno how to put what precisely I mean into words but like

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the kits and combat design are such that even the most clueless players don't feel like a detriment

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...unless they keep shooting bursters I'm pushing rahhh

lost cave
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I just had an all zealot mission, insane fun.

marsh gyro
fierce marten
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Pace and movement of darktide is faster than vermintide 2 and it's generally more forgiving

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With how toughness works to prevent HP damage vs vermintide and how it focuses on EHP

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I think if it was as punishing for mistakes as vermintide for taking damage you'd die quick since everything is just faster and more hectic in general so you're doing more each minute and more chances to make mistakes

frank igloo
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also no friendly fire

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which makes sense given how much more emphasis on ranged combat there is

fierce marten
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Friendly fire would be death with veteran grenades and psyker smites

sonic elbow
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yeah when my allies are bogged down I just shoot my clothesline gun at them

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if it dealt the same damage to players as to enemies they would not survive that

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probably a bad habit if I go back to VT

fierce marten
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Probably I started with darktide and tried VT2 on sale but didn't get far before I went back to darktide

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I'm very used to zealot feeling fast and the faster careers in VT2 felt slow to me by comparison

ionic tusk
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I can't tell if they're avoiding doing that because it might encourage more private lobbies or what

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they'd not operate the build nearly as well as a human but it'd cover some of their worse weaknesses (bosses, support) tremendously

fierce marten
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They said they'd add a solo mode with bots, 2 years ago

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The characters in darktide are much more complex build wise as careers in vermintide 2 were like 5 choices so the variations of things a bot can do is much lower than darktide skill tree

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So they're probably not even trying to to make PC builds into NPCs

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My suggestion would be to make a servitor class is basically only used by boys that works to basically mostly support you

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With like priority, so like 1st bot is one focus, 2nd another, 3rd another with focuses like tank to draw aggro like a player would, support, or ad clear.

sonic elbow
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I had a thought yesterday

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ogryn saying "dead as a doornail" implies:
1: there's enough wood on hive worlds to build with nails
2: ogryn knows carpentry

drifting prism
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1: Ogryns are from many different worlds
2: Ogryns know carpentry, despite your highest hopes

sonic elbow
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sure, ogryns have many different trades, but something about our ogryn in particular knowing it tickles me

white rover
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We see wooden carts on a bunch of maps so there's probably vat grown wood somewhere

drowsy tusk
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Alternatively it’s just used as a saying and is completely disconnected from its origin as happens frequently in language

marsh gyro
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The doornails probably have skulls on them because it's 40k

sonic elbow
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my friend took me to the twins for the first time (which I've never done before because queuing takes more clicks than quickplay) and

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after some embarrassment we got it

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I also found out smoke nades work on the meltagun guy

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he raised his pistol and just walked towards us not sure what to do with it anytime there was a smoke cloud

ionic tusk
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whoa you get players when you queue for that? I've basically given up on it lol
(or was it just a duo)

fierce marten
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Running twins is a way to play solo until quick play players join in

sonic elbow
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it was duo but people tended to drop in

spiral badger
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smokes work on all ranged enemies

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including bossess

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it's one of their core benefits

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the issue is mostly the way they work is a little weird sometimes

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reapers for example will sometimes keep firing in a straight line at your last known position

fierce marten
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Veterans cover mechanic has enemies keep firing at the last known location they saw you at

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Which has a minor benefit if you leave cover they need time to turn towards you and fire again if you leave cover

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I think that's just a general thing though

spiral badger
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yeah that's just how cover works

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and smoke essentially generates a big "cover" zone

lost cave
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I kind of feel disappointed by the plasma gun, I kind of expected more.

waxen patio
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I haven't played veteran recently. I remember it being a "delete this with one tap" gun though.

cloud hazel
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unless they literally deleted it from the game i cant imagine it being anything other than sssssssss++++++++++

brazen fossil
sonic elbow
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it's really strong out of the box but also kinda

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you're killing This Dude In Particular extremely hard unless you line up a lucky pen

brazen fossil
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Eh

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The projectile is huge

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It's pretty easy to move down a lot of dudes with good positioning

lost cave
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I think I like the Bolter better because it can go both fuck this guy and fuck all these guys.

split mantleBOT
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<@&1042950387478560878>

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we want to kill people

drowsy tusk
split mantleBOT
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we'll be a sec we're fighting a fitted sheet

drowsy tusk
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i belive in you

sonic elbow
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I can get on

drowsy tusk
sonic elbow
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I probably won't speak tho

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steam code 62561024

fierce marten
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Plasma guy is the murder elites gun for veterans with the right stuff

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Moat people don't charge it and use weapon specialist with uncharged LMB and high heat to just one shot most things

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I wonder what blessings you're running that makes plasma gun feel underwhelming compared to bolter, which is great but plasma gun is basically like the gun dueling sword exclusive to veteran

sonic elbow
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I changed my mind on shield of contempt

marsh gyro
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Did it work as advertised?

sonic elbow
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always did, I just weren't paying attention to its procs as much before

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yall were right

ionic tusk
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and with weapon specialist you can easily get away with not ever reloading it outside of boss fights should you desire
kill a few dudes, swap to reload a %, swap back, rinse and repeat
optionally shoot into the horde with it to get a kill so you get the melee buff

fierce marten
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Weapon specialist reloads 1 round with 1 Melee kill, which is nice for always having a shot ready to swap to

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3 Melee kills is guaranteed crit with next ranged attack and that's amazing

marsh gyro
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Yeah goes great with less heat on crit blessing

heavy geyser
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I find on Zealot I really like the sprint stamina reduction branch better than the shield of contempt branch of that middle shape for run & gunning

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When you realize how limited Shield of Contempt is its easy to try the other route and if you do a lot of running, it really pays the bills.

sonic elbow
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I take the sprint perk but skip the reload one

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I just don't have a build where it'd slot in

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charge? I'm either forever in melee or charge somewhere safer to reload
shroud? 3/5 seconds every few seconds is all the reload opportunities in the world

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chorus could be it but all guns that I run there already reload fast enough

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I WOULD run it if I knew how to disable automatic reloads on empty so I could keep proccing the empty gun node I have to take anyways with something like a shotty special shell

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but spamming special only interrupts the normal reload half the time

sonic elbow
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this random in the hub mogged me I think

20250113010528_1.jpg
heavy geyser
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the reload perk lets you reload a bolt pistol in one slide off of 5 melee kills. It has a niche if you run & gun a lot

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That whole branch, I think, is a run & gun branch

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and you can cancel automatic reload by sprinting

ionic tusk
marsh gyro
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The reload trait in zealot taking a little while to spin up is why I run a lot of guns with speedload blessing instead

fierce marten
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I have a bad habit of using blades when I don't need to and not enough guns.

spiral badger
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i simply only take guns that are awkward to use

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so i have an excuse to only use blades :v

fierce marten
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I run out of blades cause my aim is bad and sometimes I use 2 knives on an elite or specialist

marsh gyro
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Bolter gaming

fierce marten
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I'm trying to tell myself like that distant rager pack I can just pull out the bolter and go ham risk free

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Mission is like halfway done and I haven't used a full mag I can afford nice risk free bullet things.

marsh gyro
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Good practice for high level Havoc with its dampened ammo economy

lost cave
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After I deleted half a Beast of Nurgle health bar my eyes where opened to the plasma gun.

alpine needle
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Darktide mods are back on the menu

drowsy tusk
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<@&1042950387478560878> im restarting my computer right after this ping but tide timee

sonic elbow
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saw a burster doing a pretty impressive dive bomb into my team so I pulled out my icon and got a pulse off on the precise frame it hit them

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and the like 1 golden toughness blocked the damage

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😌

fierce marten
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Gotta love gold toughness

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Let's you mock snipers and crushers too

lost cave
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I was kinda worried taking only in death does duty end would heavily nerf voice of command but it's still got 20 feet of reach, that's pretty damn good.

marsh gyro
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Yeah what's neat too is the toughness regen affects all allies in coherency (which daisy chains) so as long as they've got the skull icon next to their name to mention they're in coherency they get the toughness, the 6 meters is just the knockdown and revive range

lost cave
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Yeah, Being able auto-revive is just so useful that losing those 3 meters is barely a trade honestly.

spiral badger
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the bigger loss and actual tradeoff is the increased cooldown

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there's a legitimate argument that if your team is a certain level of good you don't take it so you shout more often

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which prevents anyone from going down

lost cave
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Fair, but I've only played up to Malice with randoms. So.

marsh gyro
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At the point the 15 seconds extra matter huge, you'll know if it's a luxury or not

sonic elbow
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the biggest ?? is the psyker talent that refills toughness for other players when one goes down

fierce marten
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I'm guessing the intent is so the team would immediately have full toughness to revive

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But later on, often if someone goes down there's too many enemies to just revive without clearing the area somehow like murder, shout, chorus, grenades, bubble, etc as they'd eat through your stamina, toughness, and HP before you can finish it.

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As is I think it's a weaker option than many other psyker talents which they got better options usually

sonic elbow
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the only ded ally talent I don't raise my eyebrow at is vet's leave no one behind, it's a ton of effects and the proc is more applicable than it sounds

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it still should be replaced with something that prevents rather than alleviates downs if you have any trust in your team at all but if I'm pubbing I take it even if it isn't tax

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the effects are active if an ally with a "help me!!!" indicator is visible on your screen at all

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and 20% in all three is uncharacteristically generous for the kind of talent it is (which isn't to say it's huge but these talents tend to be nothing for some reason)

marsh gyro
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Yeah getting turbo speed from a trapper net rules

sonic elbow
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ogryn's DR near incapacitated allies is a tricky one to judge

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it fits into the kit well because ogryn can facetank revives by default and all possible builds have the CC to keep downed allies alive to keep benefitting from the bonus while he cleans house

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on the other the benefit gets more and more theoretical the more instakilly the difficulty gets

brazen fossil
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Ogryn my beloved

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Ogryn can get basically unkillable with a bit of build craft

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I'm still sad the middle aura is kinda piss

sonic elbow
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it also lies to you

brazen fossil
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I am aware

sonic elbow
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I will never forgive them for not being consistent with the terms

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and ogryn suffers from it the most

frank igloo
brazen fossil
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Yeah I never run it

sonic elbow
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playing merc in vermintide prepared me well in terms of shout mentality

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Never Not Be Shouting because every shout shrinks the odds of someone needing a revive

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though I miss trading health for even faster shout cooldown

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having the most damage taken at the end of the round BY FAR but no downs was great

spiral badger
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also always be shouting because it has the best line reads

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THERE IS ONLY WAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

sonic elbow
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I'm running a sort of forever chorus thing on my zealot and it cracks me up how the voiceline is over after the first pulse so for the rest I'm just kinda melodramatically thrusting the icon forward and enemies cover like an old movie vampire

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goofy visual

spiral badger
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chorus has 2 voiceline poitns

sonic elbow
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virtual sin forgiveness

spiral badger
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one is at the start and the other is timed to play when you hit 100 overtoughness

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aka 5 pulses

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I don't know if that's intentional but it helps tell you you can stop chorusing depending on which nodes you picked

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and the situation

sonic elbow
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I only take the obligatory upgrade in my build because I kinda need the points to enable the eternal chorus

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and having enemies locked down for the majority of the match beats the upgrades imo

fierce marten
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Getting back me chorus before my gold toughness even expired

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I will say martyr and invocation is a nice combo cause when you need chorus most is when you're taking HP damage and if you take HP curios taking like 1/5th of your HP would fully reset it so you got so much buffer to use it when you need it.

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Out for Blood on veteran is my underrated talent cause I noticed playing vet the times I die are like the seconds where my shout are on CD, grenades gone, no specialist in sight so being able to get back full toughness with 2 plasma gun shots into a horde is an amazing lifesaver cause it should buy you enough time to get one of those back.

ionic tusk
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I think my favorite funny thing is weapon specialist and plasma gun
outside of bosses you generally can just kill things and swap repeatedly to slowly reload it

ionic tusk
# spiral badger the bigger loss and actual tradeoff is the increased cooldown

I really think they should move the cooldown penalty to the gold toughness node to nerf the ability (and buff the revive shout to increase build diversity within it at least)
it dominates the meta so so hard, esp. with the placement on the tree being after the free nades node which is generally considered mandatory
so even if you try to escape shout meta it's easier to build than the alternatives even disregarding how good it is in a vacuum 😔

spiral badger
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Honestly the two problems with he vet tree are that they have one very weak option per tier and that those options are on opposite sides

marsh gyro
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By Tier do you mean like an entire horizontal row or just the branching nodes in pairs?

fierce marten
spiral badger
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the big stuff

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they have a completely crap aura, a completely crap active, and a completely crap (mostly) keystone

finite nymph
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Wait which active is crap :|a

sonic elbow
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hey, at least it's not martyrdom /s

spiral badger
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executioners is by far worse than the other two

finite nymph
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Yeaah, I can see that, basically minor DPS boost vs Clutch Rez + thousand other applications

sonic elbow
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infiltrate is the crap one imo in context of the class

spiral badger
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no vet infiltrate is extremely long

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letting you do all kinds of fun setupss

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and it also lets you dive really well because of the threat reduction

sonic elbow
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vet doesn't synergize with infiltrate as much as zealot, doesn't benefit as much from it and shout already clears the post code you're in of active threats

finite nymph
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stealth has always felt strong for me, the shield regen, the friend-saving, the self-saving, being able to just Headshot Idiots in the center of everything with the threat reduction.. s'good

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Also shout is tragically

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boring v-v

sonic elbow
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yeah shout sweep is part of why I rarely revisit vet these days

finite nymph
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also love stealth for Sneaky Objective Handling

sonic elbow
#

my problem with that is if you can't trust your team to have your back they'll probably struggle to deal with the enemies that did a 180 when you went into stealth

finite nymph
#

see i take that as a boon

#

Their Problem Now

#

you can clean up with a grenade and rez 'em

spiral badger
#

also you can trow grenades without breaking stealthhh

#

underhand them

finite nymph
#

i did not know that, oohe

#

hilarious, secret present

sonic elbow
#

my favourite thing is throwing my critical infinite cleave blade of faith the exact moment I go into stealth so there's a conga line of ragers that just does the disintegrates emoji

finite nymph
#

honestly i'd like it just for a few seconds of breathing

sonic elbow
#

I'm also cooking a really stupid build

#

gunfiltrator zealot

#

autopistol with raking fire and powder burn, ranged backstab node, blades

#

if I sneak some rending into this I'll have a really funny alternative to melee backstabs

spiral badger
#

anyway zealot and vet stealth are different in purpose

sonic elbow
#

doing objectives is kinda the only thing I see as going for infiltrate

#

half the other benefits that would be valid run into "unfortunately, shout"

spiral badger
#

free repositioning and a long period of basically retaliation-free firing

#

you use vet stealth to move somewhere where you have good sightline to a bunch of annoying things, and then pop out and murder them

marsh gyro
#

Vet stealth run speed is its own reward

sonic elbow
#

I wish executioner's stance had more juice

#

it was my main ability by far and I can attest that yeah it don't matter

#

though

#

I also blame the current gun balance

spiral badger
#

make it reload your gun again

sonic elbow
#

the game atm favours either nuke guns or death by thousand DoTs

#

the skill would favour somewhat rapid firing but still precision weapons

finite nymph
#

I'm too Revolver Head for Executioner's Stance

spiral badger
#

also clean up the nnodes

sonic elbow
#

yeah revolver just kinda does too much damage too slowly for exe

#

I'm laspistol pilled and that's a perfect match and it's

#

it has an effect?

#

but I could just not do that and win more

finite nymph
#

just let vets have two active abilities, it's fiiine

sonic elbow
#

wild idea, combine them

#

initial pop is stealth, chained highlighted kill is low profile

spiral badger
#

just make it reload your gun again

#

and make all the highlight nodes 1 node

sonic elbow
#

also designate target would be a better two-parter talent than a keystone (like zealot's invuln)

#

don't get me started on vet's auras

#

mf 5% movement

#

it's a good joke that the most connection-flexible talent tree also has only one notable option for all major nodes but Man

spiral badger
#

eh the keystones are all... functional

#

marksmans is the worst

sonic elbow
#

ye

#

the not moving part isn't even a problem with the guns you'll want finesse on

#

but once again these are not especially favoured guns and the benefits are famished compared to weapon specialist

sonic elbow
fierce marten
#

One of Ogyrns keystone is like 5% damage on heavy Melee up to 5 stacks.
One of zealots regular talents before a keystone branch is 4% on any Melee attack up to 5 stacks.

#

Ogyrns keystones I didn't like most of the talent options.

#

Between vet and zealot a lot of the talents I like for build variety to suit many playstyles. Ogyrns talents feel like, heavy Melee tank or stubber.

ionic tusk
#

beacon is the weird one because if you're playing havoc it's effectively required for one of the modifiers, otherwise it usually doesn't prevent you from losing a bar and thus the heals heal the corruption anyway with no net change for having it

#

meanwhile survivalist is like
The Aura of the game

#

there's also psykinetic aura
which isn't even an aura
which is wild

#

and then there's loner
which I've only ever had people talk about positively how it removes the game trying to punish you for rushing ahead
which isn't exactly the best sell in a game designed around people sticking together

#

and then there's the quickening
it's hard to say no to 10% faster ability cooldown

#

(and I'm not too familiar with the ogyrn auras, I mostly see the heavy attack one which is going to immensely vary in usefullness based on the weapon)

sonic elbow
#

loner doesn't prevent disabler spawns as I understand it because it's a decision made by the same skeleton of the director from vermintide from before coherency was ever a thing

#

but having toughness regen relatively whenever is a nice thing on zealot in particular

#

because no other class could dream of creating the windows to benefit

marsh gyro
#

Loner's bugged and won't give you the toughness regen if an enemy is in the aura range so it doesn't even work as advertised

sonic elbow
#

I mean, that's not really a bug, just how regen works?

#

dying enemies sending bad vibes to your toughness regen with their last breath is though

#

minimal cooldown charge/shroudfield zealot is pretty much the only char in the game that could dream of not having attacking enemies assigned for an amount of time that matters

#

so despite everything it kinda works out

marsh gyro
#

Loner is a bizarre prisoner's dilemma because auras don't stack so in theory an optimal 4 zealot crowd would have 1 benediction 1 beacon and 2 loners except the loners don't contribute to the other 2 so it's more beneficial to the team to run 2 beacon 2 benediction or something similar

ionic tusk
#

ime toughness coherency regen isn't even that good in the first place
it's good for topping up between encounters but in encounters you should have more reliable and faster ways to regen toughness

the only time I've felt not having it is when I get cut off from the main group and have a bomber restricting my movements

ionic tusk
marsh gyro
#

1 beacon is just nice QOL for chip damage, I always enjoy it

ionic tusk
#

🤔 hm I think I need to read up on how corruption works more

#

it is useful if you're taking damage from your max hp being reduced
but ime the main things that do that are beast of nurgle, dog, grimore, and the blight spreads
stuff like poxwalkers will often be chipping at your max hp while your current hp is much lower
and every way to get your hp back (except the until death tree which is capped at 25%) heals both actual hp and corruption, so it doesn't actually matter

TLDR: I don't think corruption chip damage actually does anything in most games, although there are exceptions where it matters a lot, they're fairly rare

ionic tusk
#

(there's also other corruption sources like tox gas that I think will primarily be dealing damage after you hp is lower anyway)

fierce marten
#

For corruption modifiers it let's you basically revive back to back

#

Cause without it if you don't find a Medicare you can be just dead dead from corruption

ionic tusk
#

I'm a bit confused
back to back as in wounds or just having a ton of corruption and getting revived once?

#

like, taking 50% of a wound of corruption and then being at 25% hp when you go down and revive? because yeah that definitely is a plus for beacon 🤔

fierce marten
#

I forgot about the revive HP, mostly saying with random teammates they might just eat so much corruption you don't get a 2nd revive or 1st even with poxburster combos with other specialists so your team is down on revive opportunities compared to bringing beacon the you're mostly playing as normal.

#

I kind of build around the possibility someone is just awful or I'm having a bad game day since it's going to happen and losing a match and getting nothing stings more to me than finishing a mission a few minutes later cause I didn't run optimal DPS

ionic tusk
#

ime, generally, people are way too scared of dying
a significant amount of time the party wipe would have happened the exact same if you went down and then died or just died right away

fierce marten
#

I'm built different, stealth zealot so either I'm clutching or dead in the first area

ionic tusk
#

to me going down is just as scary

#

unless you're right next to your team and things aren't hitting the fan

ionic tusk
ionic tusk
ionic tusk
#

also the new event just seems to remove the chance of not getting ogyrns rather than substantially changing the game
I've been told it's auric-only?
also it doesn't seem to be considered substantial enough to not allow to combine with hi-shocks, which is weird

image.png
dawn totem
#

So just... layers of Ogryns then.

spiral badger
#

easing into the havoc experience

ionic tusk
#

honestly it doesn't feel like it changes enemy amount or intensity, just ensures that you always roll some ogyrns
and auric builds generally should be ready for 'oops random crusher ball' and 'oops reaper nest' anyways

brazen fossil
#

The absolutely moment when you see your teammate outgun a reaper blob in the open

marsh gyro
#

I need to dodge 500 reaper shots so now's the time

ionic tusk
brazen fossil
fierce marten
#

If you're not critting every 1 second as a psyker I think there's room for growth

sonic elbow
#

introducing crits... 2

#

your crits roll for crits

marsh gyro
#

Warframe style red crits

brazen fossil
#

Warframe style integer overflows

mortal crystal
# marsh gyro Warframe style red crits

Orange crits actually. People were getting "red crits" so often they introduced orange crits and moved red crits up to criting three times over instead of just two times over.

#

(also yes warframe has multiple methods to hit the integer limit on a 32 bit signed int)

brazen fossil
dawn totem
#

<@&1042950387478560878> Tide?

marsh gyro
#

Stuck at work, can tide after shift at <t:1737070200:F>

brazen fossil
#

Oooooooh

#

I need that private game achievement on zealot

#

Doable if we get a full team and y'all willing to help

dawn totem
brazen fossil
#

Dunno the name

#

It's the less then 75% health for 80% of the mission or something

dawn totem
brazen fossil
brazen fossil
marsh gyro
#

Thanks for the ping, got a little distracted, logging in now

ionic tusk
#

the event seems to add to the number of plague ogyrns also

sonic elbow
#

I'm trying to see if there's some broken interaction that would let smoke grenade explosion register as a hiit

#

no luck so far but there's a lot to go through

#

reasoning: it'd be really funny if it could proc blessings

sonic elbow
#

dunno if this has any use other than the most situational ammo saving, but swapping from smite to boltgun at about 3 targets zapped applies bleed to them from the bolt blessing

#

I used this to max out bleed stacks on a boss during a low intensity fight

#

my only other idea atm is proccing bleed related knife blessings

ionic tusk
#

from what I've heard there's some specialist builds that do that with soulblaze that are decently effective?

#

also even the bleed could be interesting for hordeclear 🤔

marsh gyro
#

Smite's weird because it's actually decent horde clear damage wise with empowered psionics (as in it kills dreg and scab melee mooks) except for the fact it's slow compared to using like a flame staff or a comparable assail build and time is a non-renewable resource

#

1 smite psyker is a fun backup, 2 together is all the Emperor Palpatine memes because the master and apprentice are working together

ionic tusk
#

if you're taking empowered psionics your psionic ability should be a focus, so

#

or at least like, Good

#

I forget, have I described aimed smite push here yet? you can push the enemies in any direction you desire which can be fatal near ledges
the cogitator array mission notably you can push 2/3rds of the bridge off every couple seconds

marsh gyro
#

Oh that's pretty neat, does it just cycle the knockback from releasing smite?

ionic tusk
#

wdym cycle?
the game just pushes in the direction you're pointing your camera when you do the push, the starting direction doesn't matter

#

so you just smite the bridge, rotate 90 degrees to the right or left, then release

#

it's also useful to push enemies into a wall out of your way instead of directly back, further in your way

#

and if you just do a bit of smiting you can also seperate the elites from the chaff since the elites won't get knocked over (unrelated to aiming but also really useful)

ionic tusk
marsh gyro
#

These days I'm kind of hooked on the 2H Psyker Greatsword swoosh for crowds

ionic tusk
#

my builds tend towards 'specialist deleter' so for me smite helps with crowd control

#

oh also! another smite tech, it tends to be pretty good at dealing with poxbursters
although they still sometimes don't explode, it has a similar success rate to running up to a poxburster and pushing it

#

the main issue is to not get caught off guard and be unable to push when it's actually effected by smite

#

oh and you can also blow yourself up with smite, it's just really hard, you have to swap off to not push and back quickly, or charge it to 100% and then try to use it
there's no way to explode with primary attacks only without doing something special to get it to 100% peril first afaik

fierce marten
#

Smite pretty great against hound packs

#

And the cc is nice in situations to get objectives done, you can smite for a really long time with venting Shriek so assuming you don't get surprised slapped and your teammates actually take advantage of the smite to do objectives

ionic tusk
#

also crusher/mauler balls but often you'll have to help kill them so it doesn't take forever

fierce marten
#

Sometimes you start smiting then everyone is in another zip code

ionic tusk
#

I usually hold it for a bit and then release before trying to take advantage of the push in that case

#

although I really need to learn the timings on how long is needed to push which enemies

fierce marten
#

Ogyrn and psyker are the classes I know least about

sonic elbow
#

I still need to learn brain pop

#

I keep getting it confused with some other things and try to left click to confirm a right click charge

#

which instead just starts the charge anew

#

also it feels more sluggish than when other psykers use it

ionic tusk
ionic tusk
#

empowered psionics and the node that makes it faster after you use an ability

sonic elbow
#

I use that node, haven't reached the bottom of the tree yet

#

also

#

I wish the agrippina braced autogun mathed out better

#

penetrating shots but half the mag and reserve sounds good but this is a game where I can buff the weaker, denser shots of the other two marks out the wazoo

heavy geyser
#

Its the braced mark of choice for horde clear

sonic elbow
#

"enemies electrocuted by you take +10% damage"
status mod only shows enfeeble when I electrocute them via smite, not any other other source

#

thank you, fatshark

ionic tusk
#

I just went to look up all the different ways they describe coherency radius and learned from their website that sprint speed is among the stats that are different on different classes
💀

#

+50% Coherency radius.
+50% Aura radius.
50% Radius for your Coherency Aura.
consistency: not even once

ionic tusk
#

I didn't know it was possible to make me feel even more sad for ogyrn knowing all these random base stats are also biased against them

brazen fossil
#

The ogryn has some very important advantages

#

Notable some of the strongest talents in the game and being fast Even on 0 stamina

ionic tusk
#

zealot also has the fast on zero stamina! with a higher base sprint speed

#

I think all classes have "some of the strongest talents in the game" also

#

🤔 it's also interesting to me that zealot has lower stamina regen time- I knew about psyker, but not zealot

#

with psyker you can slide everywhere and actually gain more stamina than you spent sprinting to get the slide
you can also do that if you get the stamina recharge reduction nodes on vet

sonic elbow
#

zealot can pull off being a legally distinct ogryn better than ogryn imo

sonic elbow
#

because of course it is

#

self explanatory

dawn totem
#

If there will ever be a a new Darktide class, I'm wondering what the accent nationality will be. Seems like if your country was ever colonized by Europe, you were also part of the Imperium. So yeah, big library to choose from.

I know it's mostly silly rumors about Ratlings as a new class type. But I'd love for them to have a Brooklyn or Boston accent out of nowhere.

marsh gyro
#

"Hey, brah, there's wicked heretics here!"

dawn totem
#

"Ey! Ain't you Tech-Priests supposed to be wicked smaat?"

#

I would love to see a crazy swerve on the part of Fatshark and just have like, Aldari Rangers out of nowhere as a new class. Or Warp Spiders.

#

As if things aren't tense enough with the warband already.

marsh gyro
#

Dark Eldartide

sonic elbow
#

a skaven pretending to be a ratling

tough compass
#

Aeldari Rangers or Warp Spiders would totally outclass most rejects. But I guess not the PC characters specifically lol

lost cave
#

Okay but aspect warriors like warp spiders are basically the elder equivalent of space marines so that's not a fair comparison.

tough compass
#

Yeah, an unnamed space marine would die much quicker than a PC reject 😛

dawn totem
#

"Are... are we sure these are the rejects?"

#

Methinks the planning of Grendel goes far deeper. Find someone exceptional, tell them they're under arrest and a reject, turn them into a warband and let them kick ass while feeling like they're not good enough...

#

Oh man... that's so grimdark I made myself sad...

brazen fossil
marsh gyro
#

Yeah Ogryn regenerates toughness for existing and can tank an impressive amount of ranged fire with the 5% toughness regen on shooty aiming

sonic elbow
#

zealot can just tap dodge and get full toughness from that

#

like I play ogryn I love my boy

#

but they did him very dirty

brazen fossil
#

ogryn can also do proper tanking, can stack all the DR in the universe, can disable shooters, has all the suppression, can de-dog himself and doesnt get staggered nearly as much

#

Zealot is a very strong class, but its not the same role as ogryn imo

sonic elbow
#

zealot can replicate all of these but has better things to do is the depressing part

#

probably with the exception of having a ranged weapon as uniformly strong as specced kickback

marsh gyro
#

Middle tree Ogryn is what I play when I solo queue Aurics and buffing team damage and staggering a million things with huge toughness rules

sonic elbow
#

I'm the little ogryn (crusher zealot) and I keep taking CC off the build because I keep finding I don't need that much of it

fierce marten
#

And they can't be stagger

#

20%

ionic tusk
ionic tusk
#

but uhhh zealots can probably do damage reduction better tbh

#

like significantly

fierce marten
#

Zealot hae a lot of TDR nodes

ionic tusk
#

yeah
some very, very strong ones

fierce marten
#

Stupid amounts if you stack them all

ionic tusk
#

iirc it has a 50% reduction on crit

#

for a few seconds

#

and martyrdom

#

as the most extreme ones

fierce marten
#

If you stack them all you can tank crusher overheads and snipers with not much HP loss. zealot also many multiple easily activated basically always on toughness replenishment

#

Also being very mobile

ionic tusk
#

the real crime is that ogyrn can't use dueling sword
give them it as a toothpick!!!

#

I think the main thing ogyrns are good at is making space

#

but two of the meta defining abilities, shout and chorus, also do that

fierce marten
#

Give him bigger dueling sword

ionic tusk
#

imagine if ogyrn also has a way to share their toughness like vet can...

#

then it'd probably be more gamechanging

ionic tusk
#

but it doesn't have the raw group survivability of the competition

sonic elbow
#

shield with the small taunt talent making shooters throw down their guns in pure gamer rage and run over to smack you is comical

#

the charge is the more impactful team survivability ability imo

#

...does "pushing" enemies with the charge taunt them??

ionic tusk
#

it's impactful but ultimately not that much more notable than like, a shredder grenade 80% of the time

#

so a vet can spam shout and then demo team shredder nades everywhere

sonic elbow
#

and moeb all over these guys

#

also charge having nothing built in to defend against range is weird considering how many things abilities on other characters are allowed to do

ionic tusk
#

like ogyrn has tools that have an impact
but everyone else's tools do more things

#

frag bomb is a nice panic button
but then the other classes get panic buttons (chorus, shout + shredder nade spam) that recharge, often quite faster than you'd expect
so they're also bread and butter in addition to panic buttons

tough compass
#

I just don't like how the Orgyn feels. It's probably my least played class because of that

fierce marten
#

I'm not a fan of spamming heavy Melee or gunning so it is also my least played

heavy geyser
#

It's Never The Ogryn's Fault™️

#

They are the one class who is truly blameless.

dawn totem
#

It's like being mad at a killer whale.

ionic tusk
#

ime
65% of ogyrns are lovable protectors, 30% are adorable clueless babies, and 5% are loners who run ahead and die
(loner zealot transcends all barriers)

neon nymph
#

I'm unsure which one I count as, I just kind of machine gun anything I see

fierce marten
#

Til my zealot is an ogryn

opaque crown
#

In my experience, ogryns save teams frequently.

#

And often go unsung

#

I kind of disagree with the assertion that everyone else's tools do more things though. I also think the benefits of taunt are frequently overlooked

#

I do think the charge has more general utility, but taunt more than pulls is weight as a pressure control valve

neon nymph
#

Ahh
I play gun ogryn, so oof

sonic elbow
#

ripper guns excelling at and synergizing with nothing 😔

marsh gyro
#

Ripper guns have can opener and that solves many problems

sonic elbow
#

honestly I think giving them good armour damage at VERY close range wouldn't be outrageous and it'd be a good step towards their iconic feel

#

yeah but it's practically obligatory to not go "I could be using X instead" and my stance on obligatory blessings is that they should be rolled into the baseline

brazen fossil
#

I've played hundreds of hours of this game and still don't understand why everyone thinks the zealot is so good

#

It's a bunch of conditional buffs that are really strong but trick the player into a false sense of security

drowsy vine
#

Whuh?

#

What do you mean

brazen fossil
#

Most of zealots DR is in conditional buffs, DR on dodge, on crit, when taking damage

drowsy vine
#

Okay so, what if the player isn't tricked into a false sense of security and uses their abilities properly

brazen fossil
#

Then they are very good

#

But zealots are the class I spent the most time scraping off the floor

#

Including when I play them

drowsy vine
#

and inversely, Zealot is the class a lot of the highest tier players think is the best on Havoc 40, or at least the easiest to pilot by a long shot

brazen fossil
#

Fair

drowsy vine
#

I get where you're coming from, but I think narrowing in your focus on the first 50% of a class's skill floor is going to make a lot of them look not great

brazen fossil
#

Eh that's the wast majority of players I interact with

#

Personally I suck with zealot because i find it boring and struggle even on pretty low difficulty while with the other classes I'm pretty comfortable in basically everywhere, I didn't yet do havoc above like 20 I think so might become more problematic there

sonic elbow
#

zealot builds are pretty boring but I think mine is pretty one of a kind and I still manage auric 5

#

although zealot is probably the only class where all 3 abilities are taken equally seriously

ionic tusk
#

honestly I don't think your build has to be that good for auric

#

checklist of things you need to carry:

  • way to delete specials fast
  • some way to deal with crusher balls solo
  • way to get toughness back fast (preferably on demand with an ability, but all classes have alternatives that will be fairly useable in auric)
  • optional: way to revive and rescue in melee hordes
sonic elbow
#

I can imagine building psyker so wrong that it becomes an issue

ionic tusk
#

oh you can build any class horribly wrong

#

I'm just saying it doesn't need to be like, good, just functional

ionic tusk
#

also if you're going in with weapons that aren't leveled to the endgame content that can also suck

#

depends on what stats got the short end of the stick

ionic tusk
sonic elbow
ionic tusk
#

if that was finesse it might also kneecap the crit and weakspot damage lol

sonic elbow
#

I'm leveling other guns rn and I'm yet to find a fitting replacement for my clothesline shotty

marsh gyro
#

You could always run a second Zarona shotty with different blessings

#

Or do you mean you're doing masteries

sonic elbow
#

yeah masteries

marsh gyro
#

Try the vigilant autoguns for similar ranged performance at picking off shooters, if you use a burst auto you can do decent vs crowds too but you'll probably use the melee instead for poxwalkers and carapace

sonic elbow
#

I was half done with double barrel and while it has monstrous everything clear up close, I shot a gunner in the head from like 10 meters away twice and he was Fine and I stood there incredulous as I shot him like 5 more times

#

could be a low power weapon in high difficulty problem tho

marsh gyro
#

Yeah the range for the double barrel is 8m and falls off to about half at 20m and doesn't do the most on flak so it's entirely possible that you were hitting with minimum pellets

fierce marten
# ionic tusk on crit and dodge will have insane uptime

Agreed as a zealot you're always dodging and critting those basically always on. Just bait a trash mob into attacking you instead of killing them right away and they easily get 35% crit chance with their base and scourge you're critting every few seconds with any weapon

#

The conditional buffs should be always on basically they're very easy conditions to refresh

#

A great zealot player knows that keeping the buffs up is better than killing the 3 horde mobs in front of them right away to refresh dodge buffs, and to build up crit buff on mobs before engaging something big.

Bad ones often don't do this so they're dying cause they didn't have these important buffs on cause they're often important for one shot breakpoints and surviving lethal situations

#

Early zealot is also very forgiving in a way I think enables a player to climb difficulty with bad habits so you can easily get to damnation while having many bad habits and stonewalling yourself unknowingly

sonic elbow
#

I maxed characters out one at a time and fresh zealot was the first time I queued for heresy and a shooter just exploded me lol

#

important distinction between early zealots that go right side talent tree and ones that don't

fierce marten
#

Early early pre level 15 zealot yea is just glass but I meant moreso between like malice and heresy at level 20+ish

#

Psyker is not as forgiving and in order to climb difficulty reliably you gotta shed bad habits and pick up good ones otherwise you're dying from a few hits.

sonic elbow
#

I like playing bodyguard for my psyker friend and watching him shadow realm everything so long as he's unbothered and moisturized

fierce marten
#

Ideal for psyker

#

In pub games if I see a single ill pair with them. I remember playing psyker and doing glass cannon things then suddenly everyone leaves then I'm trying to stay alive than cannon which was frustrating

frank igloo
#

yeah psyker is the epitome of glass cannon

#

definitely needs someone keeping enemies off them so they can murder

sonic elbow
#

psyker can also just kinda stand there like "ah, a commendable offence, shame I already regained all my toughness by your second hit"

#

but that's a very tight build going 100% according to plan

#

something I appreciate about DT over VT is that it's much harder to reach the point of excessive horde clear where your team is begging you to stop because you're killing all their talent/THP fuel

fierce marten
#

What's darktide horde limit compared to vanilla vermintide 2?

sonic elbow
#

I don't know but there's also a lot less "kill lotsa dudes for this" talents/blessings

#

and half the ways to get toughness don't ask you to kill lotsa dudes

tough compass
#

Though they do have enough that you need to be at a certain difficulty level for certain builds to work

fierce marten
#

Veteran and specialist/elite kill talents that get better with higher difficulty

tough compass
sonic elbow
#

yeah it had a funny effect in VT where builds physically couldn't fire on all cylinders until you went high enough in difficulty
and then someone brought like a shotgun or horde specced flamethrower

#

since it seemed like a good idea

#

and everyone gave them the stink eye because their build didn't work anymore

tough compass
#

I think toughness not requiring killing enemies helps that a lot

spiral badger
#

VT temp health was a cludge system that ultimately just had to keep getting cludged on

#

beacuse everyone was used to it

tough compass
#

Also, do all the "kill lots of enemies" requirements generally buff killing larger hordes in DT?

spiral badger
#

toughness is basically them finally going back and going "ok how do we make this not weird"

sonic elbow
waxen patio
fierce marten
#

They made a little weird still, toughness being shields against ranged attacks and DR against melee

#

But I think I prefer it since you're not punished basically when a wave ends and you mopped everything up

tough compass
waxen patio
#

yea

spiral badger
#

and that's always been an issue in tide games

waxen patio
#

inferno psyker is satisfying

#

fwooooosh

spiral badger
#

people getting stabbed in the ass by the slaverat flung to the side by someone with a hammer: the eternal complaint

sonic elbow
tough compass
#

It is really funny that toughness works better against ranged. In the grim dark future, people just grin and bear bullets but not stab wounds

spiral badger
#

i always look at it as Luck

fierce marten
#

I'm guessing it was like originally void shields or something early on in development

spiral badger
#

those ranged shots just didn't hit you

#

or not seriously

sonic elbow
#

if someone shoots at you you can just dodge but if they stab you what are you gonna do

spiral badger
#

until one does and then you're hurt, immediately

fierce marten
#

Cause iirc that's how void shields work in 40k, great against ranged but wesker against melee

tough compass
fierce marten
#

Which is partly why Melee is good for the titans and big things

tough compass
#

Void shields don't work against close stuff. Though in tabletop, iron halos and similar do

fierce marten
#

The captains void shields work similarly, Melee does x3 damage against it

tough compass
#

Unrelated, but it's funny to be that the titular Darktide in Darktide is happening somewhere else in the system

tough compass
fierce marten
#

Void shield is its own armor type similar to unyielding and I think only captains have it

#

And the twins

fierce marten
ionic tusk
ionic tusk
#

there's a vet talent that noob traps people into trying this I think
although it only works on elites and specials iirc, people with it will tend to shoot at the enemies being engaged by the melee users and nothing else

#

all of zealots dodge/crit stuff still works on bosses and single enemies also
it's only if everything in melee range of them dies before they can hit it, but the ranged stuff shooting them doesn't

tough compass
tough compass
ionic tusk
#

I think covering fire, yeah

fierce marten
#

I think what'd make sense for guardsman is something like helldivers where you don't respawn you just play a new character

#

Or orks

#

Orks you just spawn out of nowhere during a mini waaagh

ionic tusk
#

I think the respawn is just a mechanic thing

fierce marten
#

It is but it'd also be thematic

ionic tusk
#

like you do die
and then they find someone else to cover the strike team captured
it's just that person has the same loadout and cosmetics and name...

ionic tusk
#

hm I guess the more grounded war shooters where you just get another procgen soldier

fierce marten
#

Not really

ionic tusk
#

helldivers found a way to flex your cosmetics while still having different people

#

and flexing cosmetics and stuff is generally one of the things that is mandated to be encouraged so it can drive up premium cosmetic sales

fierce marten
#

This of course would have been done a long time ago but if we were guardsman instead of rejects the respawn totems could be replaced with like guard posts under attack where some guardsman are posted that you "reinforce" so they send one your way (the respawn Ed players"

#

Thay would be a way to do it without really changing anything mechanically

ionic tusk
#

that kinda works with rejects also
just have a camp of them

fierce marten
#

Also true

ionic tusk
#

however I think everything being enemy territory past the spawn area is pretty consistent tho

#

so having a guard post would be a major change to map flow

#

also would make the respawns in horde rooms not work

fierce marten
#

One thing about helldivers is I wish you could have multiple cosmetic loadout to randomly respawn but the armor is tied to mechanics.

ionic tusk
#

it'd probably make dying much more punishing unless the map was completely littered with guard posts

fierce marten
#

Just make the guards post be overrun

ionic tusk
#

helmets and capes could work still

#

and reskins

fierce marten
#

I don't think you can backtrack respawn totems so same thing the post is overunned by horde so you can't reinforce back there in true grimdark fashion

tough compass
ionic tusk
#

yes

tough compass
#

Ok, sorry about that then!

ionic tusk
#

the most notable example is the gloriana power supply room (because gloriana is difficult so it happens on that map more than others)
I've had games where sets of people get rescued from it 3+ times

fierce marten
#

I see, either way someone could figure out a way for it to work, a esthetic is one of the easier things to change often.

#

Unless it's genshin and you made the game to have like 2 male body types

ionic tusk
#

🤷‍♀️ I'm not really sure a guardsman thing would work thematically with the current mechanics
esp. the classes

fierce marten
#

If the game was originally designed with guardsman instead of rejects I'm sure they'd figure something out

tough compass
#

Orgyn, Marksmen and Psyker all still work

ionic tusk
tough compass
#

Priests are often attached to guards units right? So maybe zealot that way?

#

Though I think the melee focus of a tide game would be weird if it was skinned as guardsmen

ionic tusk
# ionic tusk I'd say toughness is also shields against melee tho it just has bleedthrough if ...

I personally see toughness more as the mental strength to ignore the damage being inflicted on you (and have low level warp bullshit make it not actually kill you)
with the way fire used to work (stripping it all instantly) and how massive hits work (destroying it and dealing full to health) I'd say thats attacks or pain so severe that reality forcefully asserts itself and breaks the mental fortitude

sonic elbow
#

well, two trains to move

fierce marten
#

Guardsman are good in melee though is the thing, but also fatshark has already taken many creative liberties with the game

ionic tusk
#

and it's harder to deny you got whacked by the object in melee than that the bullets missed or grazed you

ionic tusk
fierce marten
#

In another universe where it were different we could have gotten a similar game with different looks.

#

My theory is toughness was supposed to be void shields

#

But they went with rejects so rejects having void shields would not make sense

ionic tusk
#

the power room has you have to fix overloading capacitors and honestly I'm not sure if that actually helps given how fast they fail sometimes

sonic elbow
#

flexing 200% of my brain to connect clandestinum gloriana to a map

#

oh

#

the

ionic tusk
#

snow

sonic elbow
#

reinvent morbian steel

ionic tusk
#

yeah

sonic elbow
#

yeah I just Don't Get that segment

ionic tusk
#

probably the hardest mission because it opens up with ledging: the area

#

and then you have the big room that groups usually spend a long time in

#

and the rest of the map also has 50 morbillion barrels everywhere

spiral badger
sonic elbow
#

either failing the capacitors 3 times lets you through out of pity or 3 really is the magic number

ionic tusk
#

I think it's pity

spiral badger
#
  1. unfixed overloads don't reset the event, they just force you to also reset at the main pedestal
#

you don't actually lose any progress

#

it just makes you waste time and put yourself on a big exposed firing zone

ionic tusk
#

oh if you get it in time, does it just spawn the next one?

spiral badger
#

sorta

ionic tusk
#

getting it in time is often impossible on higher difficulties

spiral badger
#

what is actually happening is if you watch a light is moving from each synchronizter in a circular pattern

ionic tusk
#

how short a timeframe you have + having to push through to get there + you probably were in the middle rather than right next to it

spiral badger
#

first from left to right in the back and then from right to left in the front

#

so if you are aware of this you can follow it

#

and always be at the right one

ionic tusk
#

how fast does it move?

spiral badger
#

not that fast

sonic elbow
# sonic elbow well, two trains to move

the move two trains segment is pub hell because someone always takes the weirdest path at the beginning and drowns in dudes so they respawn at the start of the event so you keep backtracking to get them and someone dies every time

#

or sometimes no one takes the weird path and it's the easiest segment ever

#

the two options

ionic tusk
#

the two trains with the data interrogator on the prisma crystals ascension riser mission?

sonic elbow
#

ye

ionic tusk
#

hm I don't think I've had many deaths on that

#

oh ya'll know how to slide to make power cells less agony right

sonic elbow
#

ye

ionic tusk
#

I have to tell pubs how to do it in auric so just making sure lmao

spiral badger
#

ok sorry I had it slightly wrong in my head

#

the gloriana event has 3 "rows" of fuses

#

right

ionic tusk
#

there's so many things you probably will never know unless you see someone do it or get told

sonic elbow
#

but whenever I hear a down sound during that segment I just know we are damned to an eternity of coming back for one player only to lose another

spiral badger
#

basically one at the far back, one in the middle, one right up against you

sonic elbow
spiral badger
#

basically the power marches from left to right down each row

#

starting from the back

#

and one fuse per row will blow

ionic tusk
#

ah hm, interesting

spiral badger
#

you can tell where it is by the light and sparks coming from the fuse thingy

#

now, obviously, this is trickier than it sounds if there's a lot of people shooting you

#

and there's not actually any harm in backing off and letting it fail

#

but if you wnat to go as fast as possible you should hang out near whichever fuse is sparkling

ionic tusk
#

oh fun fact: sometimes (maybe just one time) map mechanics change based on difficulty level
the train operation mission, on damnation the interrogators do half the job hands free before defaulting to how they work on the other difficulties

sonic elbow
#

introduced another friend to the joys of fully specced recon las after he complained about the pack of hellguns

marsh gyro
#

Hit and run and Stripped Down go great on momentum zealot

sonic elbow
#

run & gun and stripped down on momentum zealot chadthink

marsh gyro
#

I don't think those blessings combo on a gun because I'd run nothing else for go fast time, haha

dawn totem
#

I'm trying out run and gun with my Burn Force Staff.

marsh gyro
#

Haha I was going to ping the role to see who wanted to do some Tuesday Barktide and going to have to wait a minute for Steam maintenance

marsh gyro
#

<@&1042950387478560878> Who wants to get that plasteel tonight

split mantleBOT
#

sure, we're up for some

opaque crown
#

whats the recommended recon lasgun version and blessing combo?

marsh gyro
#

It's class dependent and depends on what you need the gun to do relative to your melee

Mk XIV is the heavy with punch through good for crowds, Mk 6 is the ammo efficient blaster good for shooters and hip fire, Mk XII is torrent single target deletion

Zealot needs shooter deletion so mk 14 with strength and weak spot bonus on 3/4th shot is good as is hit and run and stripped down

Veteran has ammo save on crit and brittleness on hit and can really make headhunter/infernus sing on a Mk XII

Psyker has no ammo talent and big finesse modifiers so dumdum/headhunter is a good play on either the XIV or the VI

fierce marten
#

For blessings I like the crit one and brittleness on psyker and veteran. The burn stacks add a lot of damage for flak enemies combined with brittleness means you're cutting through armored ragers and most flak enemies as easily as horde mobs and in unideal situations it works to kill crushers with less than half mag.

#

And psykers have great crit chance with high peril and combined with cleave on peril it becomes decent at shooting through hordes into specialists/elites

marsh gyro
#

The more I play the more I really value brittleness partially because nobody else tends to bring it

ionic tusk
#

rending is whack so I have nothing to basis the value of brittleness on either
for example there's a talent that grants +10% rending to warp attacks on psyker
and it does nothing when testing it in a clean environment because 10% rending isn't enough for warp attacks specifically to tick from one damage number to the next most of the time

#

whereas guns and melee weapons tend to more reliably benefit I think?

#

iirc the way rending works is make the damage value closer to the 'base' damage value (and then provides a boost if over 100% for all armor types besides unarmored and infested?)
but the base value could be anything, it doesn't have to be the 'unarmored' damage

#

probably the messiest system I know of in darktide, damage, armor, and rending

marsh gyro
cloud hazel
#

FATSHARK

marsh gyro
#

Most brittleness caps at 40% but penetrating flame is a separate 20% and vet melee crit brittleness is a separate 20% so you can conceivably get 80% brittleness

ionic tusk
#

in which case it makes it deal like, 8 instead of 7 with minimal other stuff

ionic tusk
#

at least that's what I got from the explanation of the tester I asked about
I did test the soulfire thing myself and can verify it does change the numbers there

#

maybe I was lied to and it just only applies to soulfire (or whatever it's called) due to an actual bug 🤷‍♀️

marsh gyro
#

I was testing using the little M1 fireballs on void staff and not seeing a change so maybe it works on fire and not direct damage huh

ionic tusk
#

yeah the burn
very, very minor change also

#

🤔 someone could probably figure out a way to test 10% rending from other sources also and see if they have similar lackluster effects
and if the 10% starts changing things when you have some rending in play already

waxen patio
ionic tusk
#

yes however I've been told that's due to wonkiness with rending sometimes not mattering rather than warp attacks

#

and other people tell me it works with no warp attacks

#

I can say that I was able to get it to impact soulblaze so it definitely works sometimes

ionic tusk
#

if it only applies to that it's a bug
if it applies to everything and doesn't matter, it's not a bug but is very stupid

#

(esp. since the alternative kneecaps builds not designed specifically in a way that takes advantage of the upside due to having a hefty downside)

fierce marten
#

Toughness debuff really hurts on a psyker in most builds

#

You got to be like real confident in your ability to avoid damage or have a good team that's protects you to glass cannon unimpeded

marsh gyro
fierce marten
#

Warp rider kind of just goes on every build

#

Unless for some reason you're running a low peril build

waxen patio
#

Yeah if you can afford the points it's one of those "why wouldn't you pick it" kind of things

ionic tusk
#

on my normal builds I have warp rider but I always forget to use it lmao
since I mostly use smite reactively to situations rather than as an engage tool

ionic tusk
brazen fossil
#

I think I've made gods silliest psyker build

#

I managed to get smite to deal at least some damage

#

It is extremely ineffective

#

But it is very funny

ionic tusk
#

does it use empowered psionics?

waxen patio
#

Empowered Smite is about the only way to do it, and even then it's not remarkable but it's still damage that's at least noticeable when you fry a horde

brazen fossil
#

Turns out venting shriek doesn't end the smite so timing it correctly lets you keep use the same empowered psionic charge longer and spread soulblaze

waxen patio
#

Yeah that sounds right. Shriek empowered Smite is a solid pause button of crowd control and will at least wear everything down some instead of just tickling them.

sonic elbow
#

if you're trying to meme smite, not have a good build, scryer's gaze is probably the way to go

#

10 seconds of max peril

sonic elbow
fierce marten
#

Soulfire is quicker but a pause button that will eventually delete the horde if your teammates decide to take a vacation during your smite is pretty nice

#

I'd say it's a big upgrade cause if you regular smite then at the end of it you rely on your teammates to clear it up and if they don't then the enemies are still there and now going to slap you. Empowered then the horde is gone except for the tougher enemies if your teammates did nothing so much more managable

ionic tusk
#

I think repeatedly pushing can often serve a similar purpose?

marsh gyro
#

I think if I was running turbo smite I'd grab rectangle shields and that's because I like me shields

ionic tusk
#

like, don't use the smite all the way to max peril, stop and smack the elites that get seperated due to having higher smite resist, then rinse and repeat

fierce marten
#

What does pushing do?

ionic tusk
#

entire context:
at the end of a smite (let go or end at max peril, can be dodged by swapping but you usually don't want to), things that got zapped enough fall over
things that don't get zapped enough don't fall over

the pushing is enough to move enemies around a bit, but also when the horde is on the ground standing back up after being pushed back/to the side, that leaves the elites open to get singled out

ionic tusk
#

if they're near a drop down you can also just push repeatedly to get them to fall off

ionic tusk
ionic tusk
#

TLDR: smite is more than a stun and you can use the knockdown and knockback of it to control the engagement even when solo

#

hm on more testing, I can't seem to knockdown ragers even with higher levels of charge

#

the principle still applies though

dawn totem
#

A Smite where I can quickly throw out a fast recharging shriek can make for some solid crowd clearing and whittling down larger foes.

ionic tusk
#

also here's how to trigger POW with weapon swaps (you probably want to avoid this but I think it's funny)

sonic elbow
#

the push is the by far preferable use of smite vs the hold

#

also I noticed you can proc puncture with smite by weapon swapping just right and now I wonder what else

dawn totem
#

The one thing I miss when comparing Darktide to Vermintide is that it's so much fun to fight waves of Skaven.

sonic elbow
#

I don't exactly miss stormvermin

#

they'd be so annoying in this game lmao

#

several times I had my entire team wiped because one player turned a corner into a stormvermin and just shrieked and hit em with the deer in headlights stare

#

and everyone poured out from behind the same corner directly into an instant kill overhead

#

I dodge into enough hits meant for others players already with the much more telegraphed maulers and crushers

#

(if you lure a crusher directly into my back and then dodge I'm force choking you in my imagination)

#

funnily enough that happens to me the most around ogryn teammates and when I was playing ogryn I kept doing it accidentally to my friend

#

the sheer aura of the ogryn makes enemies reconsider targets last second, new canon

ionic tusk
#

I have a mod to try to make player outlines better and I still lose track of everyone constantly 😔
snipers tho
they're also super deadly with collateral

#

I think one time I got deleted by someone moving around way behind me and just before the sniper fired, I got put in the crosshairs last second

fierce marten
#

Ogyrn has a bigger hit box, which I love how Ogyrn POV you're always looking well down on your teammates but it seems to make a difference for enemies hitting you

#

Bullets hurty

waxen patio
#

protecc the lil 'uns

fierce marten
#

500 barrels

lost cave
#

MAP23: Barrels o' Fun

ionic tusk
#

but yeah beeg hitbox
and remember that's with the iconic to try to balance it out a bit

sonic elbow
#

ogryn also has a larger enemy adjacency range

cloud hazel
#

aarughghghghghg

#

this game is so fun when it isn't constantly sharting out and desyncing me

sonic elbow
#

moebing out

sonic elbow
#

I'm trying to cook a build but looking at all these small nodes made me cry

image.png
drowsy tusk
ionic tusk
dawn totem
#

I've been working on a Vet build that just bleeds critical hits.

ionic tusk
#

my current vet build gets both the stamina regen delay reduction nodes
but that's for the meme of sliding for infinite stamina

the +toughness and +% toughness reduction add up significantly tho ime

dawn totem
#

I'm looking at 2 lasgun Vet builds, one that's crit heavy and another that just raw damage.

#

I'm using the las carbine and the charge up las for each build.

marsh gyro
#

Surgical helbores are super nice

heavy geyser
sonic elbow
#

wheeze

image.png
ionic tusk
#

hm?

#

that's basically every auric vent purge afaik

#

although the event will add +ogyrns on top sometimes and I think let it spawn without snipers occasionally

#

I think lights out is the same

worldly talon
ionic tusk
#

dark communion is such a scuffed mission

#

half of the entire mission is leadup to a finale that never happens 💀

#

so it's just intermittent crusher hell and weird sightlines for eons

soft summit
#

I like it personally

ionic tusk
#

I get the feeling it was supposed to be a special mission and they had to cut out the boss fight for developmental reasons

or it was meant as a timed operation but they cut the mechanic

#

also rannick is just, such a an incompetent dick in it it's super grating

soft summit
#

Well he is an interrogator

ionic tusk
#

like warhammer interrogator or interrogator interrogator

ionic tusk
soft summit
#

Second in command of the Inquisitor's retinue/warband, behind the Inquisitor themselves

#

And yeah fair

ionic tusk
#

like nothing in the mission is inherently awful
it's just in context having a continuous low intensity buildup with no payoff makes nothing have any impact

soft summit
#

Fair. It definitely does feel like something should be at the end other than More Foreshadowing

ionic tusk
#

I guess the obscura den mission is similar but it deals with having a lackluster finale by playing more into getting there being the struggle

#

ie the reflector field isn't that troublesome but getting everyone up there with the infinite elite spawns from the prior segment is the focus

ionic tusk
#

however even just having a normal difficulty boss fight there would have been a massive flow improvement

#

it also doesn't feel repeatable at all??? every other mission feels at least plausible that it could happen multiple times

#

with gloriana and the train mission the dialogue is weird, but still realistic enough to if it came up again, esp. under a different mission control

#

which yet again points to 'narrative only mission salvaged for a normal mission'
which, with how jank special operations are I understand them not wanting to mess with that when they were already having to make havoc work

marsh gyro
#

The bad guy at the end should have exploded into skulls

ionic tusk
#

🤔 or maybe the intent was to get special operations working better so to encourage party finder use? which was probably the whole point of the havoc update

#

the final room might be interesting if they reworked the ritual walls to also block enemies and infinity spawned bosses so you had to try to rush to kill the cultists

#

or if they amped up the 'entering the castle' segment prior and removed all the walls but one so it's more a cool-off than a finale

soft summit
#

She survived, if barely

#

My guess was they were attempting to summon a Greater Daemon or something

soft summit
frank igloo
#

we also fought her

cloud hazel
#

any bonk enjoyers got tips for building the thammer

drowsy tusk
#

T h r u s t

brazen fossil
cloud hazel
#

the hammer itself

#

I can figure something out for builds around it

brazen fossil
#

T h r u s t

cloud hazel
#

mostly I want something anti-armor in my melee slot so I can try some other stuff aside from revolver in my ranged

drowsy tusk
#

Head taker I think is a neat second blessing

#

Unyielding damage is a great perk for boss thwacking

brazen fossil
#

I run thrust and momentum

#

No thought, only swing

drowsy tusk
#

The ignore hit mass on full speed heavy swing is neat also I think (been a hot minute since I played I do t remember blessing names)

cloud hazel
waxen patio
#
  • 60% defenses, 80% everything else
  • +25% damage (carapace/unyielding) enemies
  • Blessings: Thrust + Headtaker OR Slaughterer (preference)
#

then go bonk away

marsh gyro
cloud hazel
#

oh shit I just realised

#

the mark swap means that I can run this goated antax as a rashad instead

#

lets go

fierce marten
#

Rashad with brutal momentum feels great

#

Cut hordes to your hearts desirs

#

And the attack pattern is easy to use to hit heads all the time

ionic tusk
#

alternative: dueling sword which doesn't even have an attack pattern really, it just stabs on heavies

waxen patio
#

Mk4 Dueling Sword is just kinda ridiculous like that

sonic elbow
#

trying to run the shock maul is making me scream

#

unless I'm stupid, the horde combo can only be accessed from neutral

#

...wait, I never noticed I unlocked a second mark

#

maybe this one doesn't hurt my bones

sonic elbow
#

push attack -> light -> heavy works

#

I took it into a match without experience with it and kept losing my horde combo in the middle of hordes

#

SUBOPTIMAL

fierce marten
#

Horizontal swing heavies is the bane of shroudfield but I'm not sure why you'd run both at the same time

ionic tusk
fierce marten
#

The 2 heavy attack combo on that dueling sword mark is funny, it's a stab, then another stab

#

That's not an attack combo that's just stabbing

ionic tusk
#

I think you can get a third stab by stabbing again at just the right speed

#

but I usually stim by going around the map heavy attack stab sliding
weeeeee

ionic tusk
#

it's really funny because I cannot wrap my head around combos
so before I was just light attack spamming with tac axe

fierce marten
#

Wild dueling sword has the heavy attack speed boost

#

I don't know any others besides combat knife

ionic tusk
#

the blessing? I think people usually run thrust, riposte, and agile

#

oh and uncanny strike

ionic tusk
fierce marten
#

Same as knife, when you sprint and hold heavy attack you actually move faster than just sprinting

ionic tusk
#

oh
I did not know that lmao

fierce marten
#

Dueling sword has it but it doesn't change FOV like combat knife so you don't notice unless someone else is watching you

ionic tusk
#

so I've been going faster without even realizing

#

I just do it because it's fun xd

fierce marten
#

Your fun is optimal

ionic tusk
#

ideal

fierce marten
#

Get meta'd

ionic tusk
#

the loop of middle mouse to slide -> release heavy -> hold heavy and press shift -> repeat

fierce marten
#

A big reason I like DS over knife besides it's just cracked is the blessings. Half the knife ones are like bleed and I don't want to 2 shot something I want want it one shot so I'll never really use max bleed stacks or damage boosts on bleeding enemies. For bosses I run bolter for bleed stacks

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Dueling sword blessings are like mostly all good generalist ones

ionic tusk
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DS4 stabbing bosses to death is also fairly viable

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I think a weapon only really needs to have 2 good blessings to be meta, since you're only using 2 at once (or just a really cracked one, or stats, etc)
more just gives it wider appeal and increases build diversity

fierce marten
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I do like build diversity

ionic tusk
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yes

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it's generally healthy for the game also

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🤔 I'm not sure if DS should be brought down or other weapons brought up

fierce marten
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I also mostly on play zealot so like most of those blessings would fit on any build really

ionic tusk
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someone pulled me into havoc and I had to build a DS zealot for havoc and I threw on a generic crit build lmao

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first time I used fury

fierce marten
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I think probably down, others up. If every weapon was DS I don't think current enemies would be much of a challenge.

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They'd probably need to rebalanced enemies as a whole

ionic tusk
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hm

fierce marten
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Havoc they slapped on modifiers to limit players cause we're stronk

ionic tusk
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yeah but for purposes of quickplay auric kills you from All the Bullshit
and weapons being good can only do so much

fierce marten
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Yea it's usually specialists that end runs

ionic tusk
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DS4 can only kill a crusher ball so fast before the sniper, trapper, and gunner ball get you

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I think that's just how the game is designed

fierce marten
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New gunner threat made me firmly stick to zealot

ionic tusk
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the specialists are meant to fuck you up so the elites can murder you

fierce marten
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That slide resist is too good

ionic tusk
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sliding makes you immune to gunners anyway

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with only small periods inbetween each slide

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even ogyrn can do it

fierce marten
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I did not even notice gunners got noticeably buffed

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Ogyrns is 50%

ionic tusk
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sliding makes you count as dodging to ranged attacks

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that resist is only for melee attacks afaik

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according to this website they take full damage when sliding

ionic tusk