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#dark tidings (Darktide for people in the searchbar)
heavy geyser
that's the one
cyan depot
Figuratively useless
cloud hazel
???????
spiral badger
it only triggers on the spam bullets
cyan depot
It does amp the lmb
cloud hazel
comical
spiral badger
ok it's mildly less useless now but it's always been like that
back when the lmb spam was slow it was comically useless
now it's like, somewhat useless
cyan depot
Trauma crits are already pretty cranked though so it probably would be busted if it did
marsh gyro
The funny part is the first orb will flinch the target causing the second to whiff sometimes
gentle flame
It's funny cause it hurts to watch
spiral badger
the trauma staff has a bunch of blessings that are pointless except if you feel like spamming lmb
there's one for critical weak spot hits
which you can't get
with the explosion
cloud hazel
marsh gyro
I got a Surge + Blazing Spirit Trauma staff and turns out no it does not rule
cloud hazel
add a dick critbox darktide
cyan depot
I think you actually can but it’s very very hard
spiral badger
there's basically no reason not to run the rending shockwave/faster charging combo
cyan depot
I think you actually can but it’s very very hard
Trauma explosion lifts out of the ground at max range and while I don’t care enough to rigorously test this since it’s 99% useless I swear I’ve seen weakspot hitmarkers if it explodes at head height
cloud hazel
what if you first knock an ogryn over with force sword and then explode their head while they're lying on the ground
cyan depot
I’ve never seen it weakspot a prone enemy but I also usually usually aim for the head
spiral badger
i would check this, but i'm pretty sure explosions can't get weakspot hits period
across the board
marsh gyro
Really they should make the force staves the Quake 2 and Unreal Tournament arsenal and call it a day
I'll take a shock rifle staff any day of the week
cloud hazel
I'm honestly kind of baffled they didn't just make the surge staff a lightning gun
opaque crown
it kinda is isn't it?
limpid zinc
does just fine ime
its doing fine lol
the revolver has a comfortable niche it doesnt need a nerf at all
evis can one shot crushers ult-less if you build them right and with a little finesse on the rev
distant surge
anyways could i get some opinions?
opaque crown
the revolver has a comfortable niche it doesnt need a nerf at all
My comment earlier was that it needed a nerf and got one, and that tentatively I wouldn't hate if that nerf were even moreso. Though I'm not settled on that.
limpid zinc
evis can one shot crushers ult-less if you build them right and with a little fi...
theres a couple of non evi weapons that can do it too
knives open crushers up, axes with the right blessings
spiral badger
s h o v e l
limpid zinc
the foldies yeah
limpid zinc
My comment earlier was that it needed a nerf and got one, and that tentatively I...
it absolutely does not need any more nerfing
distant surge
opaque crown
it absolutely does not need any more nerfing
my hinge on the thought was that if it still 2 taps crushers with casual ease on the highest difficulty, that might still need scrutiny
limpid zinc
you have to build for it and its one of like three or four range weapons that are viable for handling crushers
if you take away hand cannon (the only way to stop the revolver from doming crushers) then it becomes a kind of worse shotgun lol
it also already has built in hard drop off with the shitty reload
you can kill two crushers quickly, but the third takes a century in darktide time
compared to a knife, evi, or other crusher-killing melee that can close the gap and kill the whole pack in less time
opaque crown
its also a weapon with significantly less opportunity cost than, say, the plasma or bolter, with their long ass reloads and long ass draw times; if it out performs them on single target elimination, it compromises at least one (but not the only) of their use cases as anti armor or anti heavy weapons. The melee options already come with the built in risk of getting one shot by a crusher hit when it comes to a pack.
limpid zinc
the plasma gun draws quite fast and never needs reloading in combat, plus both already have secondary niches beyond crusher clear
the plasma gun is a krak dispenser and the bolter actually has crowd control
the revolver is fine, it's a single target damage monster
it already starts to struggle as soon as there's a pack of crushers, as intended
cloud hazel
long ass reload time is also a pretty significant concern on the revolver and it happens way more often
limpid zinc
if any of these three feel a little broken its honestly the plasma gun lol
distant surge
spiral badger
plasma draws fast yeah
cloud hazel
three shotting crushers from two-shotting them is actually pretty significant because you only get to kill one per mag now
spiral badger
you also have to keep in mind, you only get 5 shots
limpid zinc
pgun is hands down the strongest vet pick to the point that a lot of things that should be fine are rendered bad
spiral badger
so against a bunch of shooters or packs of shotgunners or w/e
cloud hazel
pgun is not the strongest vet pick
spiral badger
you're going to have to pick your best shots and pray
limpid zinc
pgun is not the strongest vet pick
it trivializes a couple of things that are otherwise pug smashers, ymmv in a coherent team
opaque crown
three shotting crushers from two-shotting them is actually pretty significant be...
Oh I agree on this, my stance had never been solidly and resolutely that more nerfs were needed. I dunno if that was the impression here.
cloud hazel
being the anti-armor guy in pugs is generally a good idea because sometimes you just won't get anyone else that does it, but ime I've had way more runs die to people who can't kill shooters and plasma is really inefficient at that
cloud hazel
yeah that's the main thing
spiral badger
but I've never actually struggled with that in a missio
white portal
<@&1042950387478560878> yo, lets shoot some folk
opaque crown
curious as to where a meltagun will fit in. Super low ammo, instant kill things in a cone?
cloud hazel
even with m1ing shooters you also have issues just hitting heatcap very quickly
spiral badger
yeah but you just vent
drowsy tusk
<@&1042950387478560878> yo, lets shoot some folk
work
spiral badger
and keep going
cloud hazel
although those moments where they all line up
limpid zinc
plus it has built in CC
spiral badger
it slows you down a little but it's not that bad
white portal
<:sadcowboy:572822626456698892> work
Unionize.
cloud hazel
and you just send them all to jesus
spiral badger
the autovent is fast
limpid zinc
you can spread some love around to the entire gunner pack and they take CENTURIES to start shooting again afterwards
spiral badger
you get 2 shots per autovent and that's generally enough
limpid zinc
they stop and check their gun and text their mom that theyre doing a good job and scroll grindr and shit
spiral badger
plasma is definitely the most convenient vet weapon for me
it never doesn't do what I need it to do
limpid zinc
all i can say is right up to dauric pgun vet feels breezy compared to having to be a total operator w/ a headhunter or something
spiral badger
and I barely have to aim
limpid zinc
i feel like im taking a suboptimal build when i go revolver or rifle by comparison
spiral badger
i think there are better options in certain categories but it's definitely my "i can't be arsed to do more than m1 on people" gun
heavy geyser
revolver's limited ammo capacity and long reload are, weirdly, the two things that make investing talents in bolter management worthwhile
the revolver is about as strong as a bolter in shorter bursts
cloud hazel
fanning revolver makes that comparison super explicit
heavy geyser
but there's still distinct utility to bringing a bolter (suppression, killing multiple crushers, doondoondoondoon)
opaque crown
I find that with pgun, im usually scraping by on ammo by the mission mid point or 2/3rds of the way through. I don't usually run all the way out for very long at all, but i rarely ever go back up without lucky ammo kits
spiral badger
i think they should make bolter slightly less clunky
quiet escarp
Splash damage that can stagger gunners standing close together
quiet escarp
Yeah I feel like the deploy animation is just a little too long
spiral badger
but like, draw a smidge faster
heavy geyser
its a wild horse you need to work to tame
limpid zinc
I find that with pgun, im usually scraping by on ammo by the mission mid point o...
must be a talent thing because i bring my pgun to dauric and never think abt ammo
opaque crown
id like to not have to cock the bolter every time i draw it
spiral badger
reload a touch faster
cloud hazel
pgun's ammo problems are real but much blunted by vet ammo aura
alpine needle
but there's still distinct utility to bringing a bolter (suppression, killing mu...
my favorite part is the doondoondoon
cloud hazel
especially with the +25% reserves
limpid zinc
i never take 25% reserve
cloud hazel
yeah I think the stability weirdness is the worst part for me
spiral badger
just a little
heavy geyser
the draw is negated with blades of faith but you give up your other grenades for that utility
limpid zinc
the pgun isnt for horde blasting but i dont need it for that and shooting at elites is basically free
heavy geyser
you have to invest a lot to optimize bolter
cloud hazel
the number of times I've taken what should be a gimme shot according to my reticle and then just whiffed 50 miles off in the other direction makes me seriously wonder why semi auto mode is even on the gun
opaque crown
bolter is also, critically, pretty fun to use generally
cloud hazel
just hipfire and have mostly perfect accuracy anyway
opaque crown
enemies gib pleasingly, things that live are often stunned
you can be precise or make it a very short lived hose
the sound often feels right
spiral badger
if i want extreme ammo efficiency I'll headhunt
quiet escarp
the number of times I've taken what should be a gimme shot according to my retic...
Yeah this kills me
heavy geyser
emptying a bolter magazine is a delicacy
spiral badger
but i rarely find that to be beneficial over casually slamming that group of crushers with plas
quiet escarp
Or a short burst of automatic fire where one round is way off from the others
heavy geyser
not to be enjoyed all the time, but savored when the time is right for it
alpine needle
and when you time it right that the last bolt kills the wave and you get enough breathing room that the reload feels like a taunt and not a punishment
limpid zinc
if i want extreme ammo efficiency I'll headhunt
speaking of guns that never run out of ammo,
cloud hazel
headhunt on dauric probably just goes ammo positive sometimes
spiral badger
headhunter autoguns with the ammo restore are basically infinite ammo machines
alpine needle
feels that way ya
spiral badger
as long as you're up for some head popping
cloud hazel
if you can aim for head with even a 10% hit rate that's stonks
alpine needle
I'm playing with two psykers right now who are into "ammo who? never heard of her." So my vet always has dakka
limpid zinc
survivalist + psykers is just free money
nade pickups when the team is three psykers and a vet who regens
opaque crown
my ammo woes dissappear as a pgun vet when there is a psyker and no gungryn in the squad
cloud hazel
hey now sometimes I need three grenades instead of two
that third shredder grenade could be the difference between life and slightly more difficult life
alpine needle
I have choice paralysis, my Ogy needs better kit but I've been severely sleeping on my zealot
limpid zinc
psyker shaped gap in your lineup:
alpine needle
I know... fine I'll try the smelly wizard class
limpid zinc
weird that "level four classes to 30" is one of the rarest achievements in this game
tough compass
It's a nontrivial time commitment
alpine needle
sometimes you just gotta have beef with a roll for no good reason 
limpid zinc
It's a nontrivial time commitment
prob ~60 hours yeah
but it has like a 6% achievement rate
quiet escarp
weird that "level four classes to 30" is one of the rarest achievements in this ...
Some of the classes just don't feel great to play for a lot of folks
cloud hazel
levelling in this game is kinda miz
tough compass
It's better now than when currencies weren't shared
quiet escarp
Personally I've never been able to get in to vet
limpid zinc
this game actively encourages bad play at low levels
quiet escarp
So he's stuck at 15
tough compass
I don't think levelling are terribly much to the game
cloud hazel
not unlocking staves til whatever level on psyker is absolutely bananas
tough compass
Could make it a lot shorter to introduce things to players
quiet escarp
+ all your gear is shit
Yeah having to use whatever the game gives you rather than having any incentive to find/use something you want makes it such a slog
cloud hazel
why would you make the wacky woohoo wizard man use a gun for like 15 levels
limpid zinc
Could make it a lot shorter to introduce things to players
they should actually give you the weapons you unlock instead of the privilege of getting them lol
cloud hazel
and also you don't even have the talent points for gunkin
tough compass
they should actually give you the weapons you unlock instead of the privilege of...
That too lol
cloud hazel
nor the actual gear you would want for gunkin
limpid zinc
and not make your dodges shit on purpose so that you dont learn to use them, and....
tough compass
Unfortunately I suspect leveling "works" at increasing the time players play a game
alpine needle
levelling in this game is kinda miz
idk it may be my favorite part, mechanically atleast. I don't worry about numbers till like level 20 and even then I'm not stressed everything is so fleeting that I just horde resources and let the game tell me what gun or staff or shield I'm gonna use next
limpid zinc
society if darktide communicated anything abt high level play outside of a tutorial most people do once & then promptly forget about:
cloud hazel
Unfortunately I suspect leveling "works" at increasing the time players play a g...
like 95% of my complaints about this game are hamster wheel tricks like levelling and the crafting system
alpine needle
i did, my skull is sieve like
tough compass
Since roguelike modes are popular now. A roguelike system for darktide could be neat
cloud hazel
skinner gets in the box or it gets the hose again
limpid zinc
Since roguelike modes are popular now. A roguelike system for darktide could be ...
we'll prob get a system like chaos wastes
limpid zinc
like 95% of my complaints about this game are hamster wheel tricks like levellin...
also real
alpine needle
hell ya level and iron man to 30 and become permanent
limpid zinc
i dont need extrinsic motivation to log on and be dazzled by your cash shop i come here to play lol
cloud hazel
the core game is already good
why must fatshark assume i will not play a fun game because it is fun
limpid zinc
they erred by making the gacha centered on weapons imo
quiet escarp
like 95% of my complaints about this game are hamster wheel tricks like levellin...
Honestly I have such mixed feelings about the crafting system because on the one hand it can be incredibly annoying
But on the other I don't know how much game there actually is without it
tough compass
It's fortunately a bit better
limpid zinc
obviously if you could buy waifus from brunt the playerbase would be 1000x larger
tough compass
Than at launch
cloud hazel
I'm not necessarily objecting to the existence of the crafting system so much as reducing some of the hoops
tough compass
But on the other I don't know how much game there actually is without it
You shoot mans!
alpine needle
there too many hoops
cloud hazel
it's not that you just have to get a weapon with good stats, you have to roll for it 800 times, then pray that at least two of the blessings and perks are usable enough that you can swap two of them out...
tough compass
I think they should let you swap all the parts out tbh
cloud hazel
but before you can swap blessings you first have to roll another weapon with them, and god knows how long that takes
tough compass
And maybe some point buy system for weapons or something
heavy geyser
does hallowette update stock on any kind of predictable schedule? I want to buy a nice skin for a weapon I like but she just never puts new stuff up
cloud hazel
and the blessings don't exist until level 2 so you have to sink at least 300 plasteel into each etc etc etc
limpid zinc
does hallowette update stock on any kind of predictable schedule? I want to buy...
like monthlyish
probably new stock soon
tough compass
The plasteel imbalance is also silly
quiet escarp
I think they should let you swap all the parts out tbh
Yeah I think this would be fine with needing to get blessings from other things first
cloud hazel
diamantine's existence is a meme
quiet escarp
Then you can make your voltron perfect weapon over time
limpid zinc
The plasteel imbalance is also silly
i think they expect people to upgrade everything to gold lol
tough compass
I think even if you do you'll be limited by plasteel?
cloud hazel
yes
limpid zinc
which probably still doesnt work out matswise cause it costs like 1k in plasteel
heavy geyser
it was weekly when I started and then,
quiet escarp
I genuinely think diamantine should be the cosmetic resource
cloud hazel
it's like 1.6k to upgrade a weapon from white to gold
and maybe 600 diamantine
lmao
so you just end up with hilariously lopsided resource numbers
and again if you're just rolling for perks like Power Cycler or Hand Cannon you don't care about going to gold
tough compass
Which is a weird problem to have because you'd think tehy would have mathed it out
cloud hazel
no I don't
tough compass
Did it change a lot from launch?
cloud hazel
this is fatshark
tough compass
lol
limpid zinc
anyway re: cosmetics we're abt to get the twin battle update which will probably correspond to a drop lol
opaque crown
Honestly I think that there is absolutely useful info that has come from people digging into stats and stuff, especially when it comes to identifying what the fuck rending and brittleness do and for whom and when, or assessing specific blessing interactions; but also I think too many people get way too divisive and willing to state opinions about what's viable or how you have to play the game to do it "right" than is necessary. 90% of the time you can just play the game, get weapons and gear as you play normally, and then if you feel like it, use the massive fortune you've amassed to try and get cooler guns with better numbers. It's so often not that deep
cloud hazel
they do a lot of things
heavy geyser
I've seen one other zealot with an evis skin, which was yellow and black stripes on what is now the mk. XV model
and it looked so good
tough compass
The blessing rebalance to be weighted towards the bottom is a really nice change
heavy geyser
Fun story: they were a rags zealot and not a robes zealot
cloud hazel
the... bottom?
heavy geyser
I really really want CVS receipts wax sealed to my bolter
tough compass
the... bottom?
Lower levels
marsh gyro
The plasteel imbalance is also silly
I'm up to 15k diamantine
tough compass
So it's more marginal as you get towards 4
cloud hazel
ah
tough compass
iirc it used to not be that way
alpine needle
I've seen one other zealot with an evis skin, which was yellow and black stripes...
oh fuck ya i want that one too!
heavy geyser
My fav weird little detail is thaty most of the freebie money red and blue skins are just recolors of the base model, some are recolors of the only-recently released mark variant models, but for some reason the Thunder Hammer skin is an entirely unique third model.
cloud hazel
pretty good nowadays
marsh gyro
how good is chain axe on zealot
It's pretty cool
heavy geyser
pack it with a crowd control gun and it eats hard targets for lunch
cloud hazel
interesting single target option
distant surge
what do u have to say on this one
heavy geyser
72% damage is the low end of okay numbers
cloud hazel
ok, blessings are a little wobbly
marsh gyro
That's really good if you don't have one
opaque crown
I have mixed feelings on the new chain axe, because it's a lot harder to justify using the shred heavies, and harder to deliver on them, than the og
distant surge
i dont but also 3k feel a little bit too expensive
cloud hazel
I think bloodletter can let you just oneshot ragers and maulers by rev+light then dodge cancelling out
opaque crown
But it's easier to light spam crowds with the new one
cloud hazel
379 with 80 pen and 78 shredder is just a really nice body
and it's a mostly reasonable roll
opaque crown
The Og you can use heavies for crowds and lights shreds for solos, and then revs for real tough guys
cloud hazel
+20% unarmored damage is potentially actually useful since chaxe's main drawback is generally middling horde clear
opaque crown
The new one you use lights for crowds, heavies for solos and revs for tough guys pretty much
distant surge
so it's good for the price
marsh gyro
There will always be more melk bucks too
heavy geyser
I really want to get bloodthirsty on an evis and I only now remember my very first evis had bloodthirsty and rev it up, and I put rev it up in my stickerbook...........
"oh I'll just get that other one again later"
cloud hazel
🫡
distant surge
what kind of Zealot builds can i make? 
i wanted one with thunder hammer
cloud hazel
invis zealot playing boss whack a mole is a classic
cloud hazel
zealot is pretty flexible so it's largely just a question of what you want to do with all that t-hammer power
opaque crown
I liked it in my icon build too
marsh gyro
Thunder Hammer + laspistol with fire grenades, charge, and middle tree keystone martyrdom is my go to
cloud hazel
invis hammer stacks a bunch of various damage buffs to one shot heavy targets
charge hammer uses the guaranteed crit to either power up its kill swings or just swipe through entire crowds
distant surge
ooh, i actually got a really good laspistol
alpine needle
theyre fun arent they!
cloud hazel
chant hammer can play anchor with the ability to pancake any particularly heavy threat out of the crowd if it wants
distant surge
cloud hazel
seems reasonable
distant surge
like this?
alpine needle
oh hell yes
marsh gyro
Yeah that laspistol is going places
cloud hazel
christ
distant surge
anyone got a good hammer?
cloud hazel
the main thing with t-hammer is thrust as high as you can get it
distant surge
i have one that looks good for the most part except for the defences stat that's sitting at 62%
cloud hazel
sounds fine
distant surge
opaque crown
the main differences between the two are
Crucis: Crowd sweeping heavies, overhead lights. Charge attack is UBER POWERFUL but will blow on the first target in a swing, meaning its easy to waste on a lil guy
Ironhelm: mixed heavies and lights, charge attack has super high impact and appreciably powers up the attack, but doesn't match the crucis at all; but the charge attack can swing through multiple enemies before stopping on a heavier guy. Lets you swing into crowds frequently and ensure that you're knocking over then killing scary enemies
marsh gyro
If you can get Headtaker or Slaughterer on a Crucis Mk2 you can just keep swinging for days in a horde of poxwalkers
tough compass
I wonder why they don't give the Crucis a strikedown charged heavy
I guess it would be too good at killing cruchers or something?
opaque crown
i think the push attack is a strikedown
tough compass
That does less than the charged heavy though right?
opaque crown
i believe so yeah
distant surge
what does the defence stat do?
distant surge
i take it it ain't SUPER important
opaque crown
supposedly it affects block stamina costs but i don't think it actually does? Or at least didn't for a while
Not normally no, i don't think its hugely important
but going super low might get ya stuck when ya can't dodge so much
distant surge
ya think 62% is going to be a problem there?
marsh gyro
That's a winning blessing combo
opaque crown
if you do ever get something with a stat below 5% keep it for the novelty
just never use it
marsh gyro
Block Efficiency to Unyielding damage will bust bosses
heavy geyser
I had a 7% stability bolter but tragically lost it in an inventory selloff before I could try it out
cloud hazel
you shoot it and you take toughness damage as it bucks into your face
heavy geyser
In Borderlands 2 I was a big fan of Anarchy Gaige without the autoaim skill
I'd imagine it was like max anarchy stacks
distant surge
That's a winning blessing combo
really? i thought thrust was a must 😮
marsh gyro
Thrust does rule for damage and for CC Hammerblow is super cool
opaque crown
thrust is good, and itll elevate things, but you'll do alright with what you got too
marsh gyro
My mk2 hammer is slaughterer/hammerblow
cloud hazel
spicy
ghost is so nice on zealot
headshot one gunner and then you can mow down the rest without caring about their fire at all
distant surge
i imagine raking fire doesn't go well with ghost
cloud hazel
raking fire is just good because it's raking fire
marsh gyro
Yeah you can sub literally whatever in for raking fire, Dumdum is great
cloud hazel
if you decide to run invis people explode
but dumdum would also be good for a damage perk
distant surge
how's between the eyes?
marsh gyro
Very good QOL on Zealot
cloud hazel
in conjunction with ghost it might be a little redundant but it is extremely funny just
ignoring ranged units
alpine needle
wow can I brag?
distant surge
omg
i tried getting something other then between the eyes
i got nothing
omg
everything is between the eys
ya know what that's what i'll get
marsh gyro
You'll be the steadiest hand in the sector
alpine needle
First time ever touching psyker (first impression, not my fav) my randoms were brainless but I pulled of a zero hp clutch in the archives. What trees am I aiming for for gunker?
cloud hazel
depends
distant surge
i think i'll keep reloading speed since that's actually useful
what's a good replacement for sprint perk? las pistol btw
marsh gyro
Weak spot damage
marsh gyro
First time ever touching psyker (first impression, not my fav) my randoms were b...
Right side will do you real good
opaque crown
First time ever touching psyker (first impression, not my fav) my randoms were b...
Generally, for simplicities sake, right side is the gunker side
you can get more in the weeds i think, but generally the right side will do you right
alpine needle
thank you 
the deceleration of combat switching from vet to pskyer has given me whiplash
white portal
I've been trying out the new Heavy Las on my zealot
it's pretty good as just an off hand weapon considering I've got the new Eviserator in my melee
I'm just not entirely sure what it's like... for? if you get me? Revolvers I get, autoguns I get, braced or the full auto one. Are Las guns good at something in particular?
white portal
It's the new Heavy Las Pistol
cloud hazel
laspistols are revolvers with more uptime but worse carapace kill power
white portal
I feel my aiming is worse with this one
spiral badger
if you do they're very effective against everything up to maulers
white portal
I mean anything in carapace is what a rev'd eviserator is for
drowsy vine
Lasguns have the unique property of inverse damage profiles
The further away the target is, the more damage
Rather than losing damage over distance, they lose it for being closer
spiral badger
the advantage of the laspistol over the lasrifles is faster draw and more mobility
and better accuracy on the move
cloud hazel
you can even hipfire the light heavy laspistol (very clear I know) while sprinting
spiral badger
in return for smaller batteries and less damage
white portal
I did find it nice to be able to just spam it out whenever I needed.
the new heavier one does feel more like a revolver, and at least it sets people on fire when I crit them
spiral badger
personally i prefer revolver because I like making people Just Go Away in fewer shots
but if you like blap blap blap laspistols are good
drowsy vine
The laspistols also have much larger ammo pools, which is notable
drowsy vine
You can freely use them against shooters
drowsy vine
just means you want an anti armor melee and a healthy fear of dreg ragers
Do you mean Maulers?
cloud hazel
there we go
drowsy vine
Laspistols actually throttle flak
You can 4 shot a scab rager to the head
But yeah Maulers scary
tough compass
Laspistols are great on psyker because for some reason it has a ridiculous push
cloud hazel
the slappy
soft summit
I love quickdrawinf my revolver and just shooting an enemy in the head without even needing to aim
It's satisfying
opaque crown
Rather than losing damage over distance, they lose it for being closer
Actually didn't know this
I think the heavy Las pistol is the better generalist "I dunno, whatever" pistol, more forgiving than the Revolver but also doesn't slap a hard
I actually use the old laspistol on my gun psyker, will prolly switch to the heavy
distant surge
i hate you so much game
you give me this thing after i used most of my plasteel on the other one
marsh gyro
What's nice is this is the other model laspistol so you have choices now
distant surge
true
the saddest thing is that this looks perfect
xD
the other one i spent like a whole while trying to get it right
opaque crown
Sometimes it do be like that
distant surge
well, at least i can call this a complete build
308 hp with an extra wound plus 90% toughness regeneration speed
and i got to one tap a boss so that's hilarious
white portal
the booper
I also got a really nice knife on my zealot but it's like... okay but also thunderhammer exists I don't know whjat to do
marsh gyro
Run a Momentum build with the knife for when you want to run mach 10 and thunder hammer the rest of the time
white portal
knife is good for backstab sneaky zealots from what I've heard
marsh gyro
On the Thunder Hammer? It's very dependent on hitting the weak spot
marsh gyro
Anyone else getting hard crashes when opening the Melk dialogue before it lets you check contracts and the shop?
white portal
Anyone else getting hard crashes when opening the Melk dialogue before it lets y...
Oh yes, last few days
soft summit
Several times yeah
mint yew
same, I have a vague hunch that if you stop moving entirely before opening the dialogue it does it less but no confirmation
<@&1042950387478560878> pew pew
mint yew
despite the presence of this extremely good vet, we did not get the auric maelstrom
soft summit
Darktide update 
distant surge
are these guys the water cartel?
soft summit
yes
kind kindle
I do
alpine needle
Actually fixed this time?
slender shell
are these guys the water cartel?
Purple and bald? Genestealers confirmed
distant surge
Actually fixed this time?
there's a patch note for it at least
alpine needle
there's a patch note for it at least
Looks a lot better than it was for sure. Guess we'll find out when the first bomber places a perfect 60 yard pass directly on top of the homie I'm trying rez.
mint yew
Interestingly there's nothing about downed targets, so I think rezzing people in fire will still result in them eating a max damage tick and possibly going straight back down
but maybe 0.35s is time enough to dodge out before ticks 2/3 absolutely do kill you
alpine needle
It would be nice if there was a way to drag handle each other out of the fire or out of los of a gunner nest
My incredibly powerful (shortest option) vet dragging my ogryn buddy behind some boxes
marsh gyro
Scab Snipers pointing at downed teammates, looking at you
alpine needle
mint yew
dealing with snipers as an ogryn
tough compass
Do NPCs care about hitzones at all?
mint yew
don't think so
opaque crown
hitzones like hitboxes?
tough compass
Like head vs arms
opaque crown
all i know is that gunners will literally bean only a players head with sustained machinegun fire
i don't think it does any additional damage
but its funny to see
the laser gunner just drilling someone's face with startling accuracy
distant surge
dealing with snipers as an ogryn
nah, just extreme risk of cat attack in my case
mint yew
<@&1042950387478560878> second try, I want to hit some aurics
drowsy tusk
<@&1042950387478560878> second try, I want to hit some aurics
15 mins then yea
time to go nerd
kind kindle
dealing with snipers as an ogryn
@sick burrow
mint yew
anyone for the fourth slot?
tough compass
I have to do this "work" thing
alpine needle
Me too
opaque crown
dawn totem
Feels like when there's a team made up the same class with the same weapons and kits, it's rarely a good time.
opaque crown
definitely, though i do feel like mono class with different build and goals can be quite fu
fun
because of how classes can sidestep into different roles
spiral badger
it depends on the kit and build
4 plasma vets is a recipe for a hysterically easy mission in my experience
opaque crown
i did find quad assail to be quite funny, though we ended up wiping
dawn totem
I was in a group with three Zealots who were also health hogs.
opaque crown
4 ogryns can be a struggle but is also very fun
if at least one has a shield life gets a lot better
biggest danger is shooter saturation
spiral badger
i think the key for ogryn is at least one having a kickback or grenade gauntlet
cyan depot
i did find quad assail to be quite funny, though we ended up wiping
Did the wipe involve a monstrosity?
opaque crown
iirc it DID, but specifically horde and mosntrosity
and all of our knives were used up
cyan depot
That’s just my experience with quad assail haha
Extremely smooth sailing until a monstrosity and then a wipe
opaque crown
the sheer spectacle of like 40 knives IS great
and i think it can work if the psyker players have a modicum of self control
but my group does not
cyan depot
I think the issue is that psyker in general is hard to clutch with and has very very few good tools for monsters
drowsy tusk
thank you hadron very cool
hushed glade
Can the vent knock back monsters as psyker?
cyan depot
No
spiral badger
it sometimes can interrupt chaos spawns, who have the least resistance of the monsters
but only whne they're basically idle
hushed glade
Psyker really do be fucked against monsters then
marsh gyro
In theory a firing line of brain bursts while one Peril-blocking psyker tanks is the play and it's slow as heck
cyan depot
Psyker really do be fucked against monsters then
Pretty much, you have both the fewest and worst tools to handle them
cyan depot
Zealot IMO
marsh gyro
Zealots have the best burst damage
opaque crown
if you can dodge and block, scrier face stabbing can tear down a boss a bit fast, but headshots make it so super risky
cyan depot
Chant is the most credible monster CC and Thammers have their deficiencies but bonk the shit out of monsters
alpine needle
fun
I second this, one stealth support vet, two shouty vets for horde clear and specialist removal, and maybe a melee vet that brings a bolter to melt bosses?
I got close to this once and it felt really good
opaque crown
I would say for sustained damage, gungryn i would say might do the most damage to a boss; but the most burst is a zealot
onyx mantle
Ogryns can just stunlock them, with the slap, but its hard to do when there are other enemies around
opaque crown
gungryns can effectively drill a boss down with a single gun ult by holding the trigger down pretty much alone
and the rumblah gungryn can easily solo a boss
but the zealot can essentially 2 shot a boss as a stealth bonker iirc
hushed glade
Zealots can one-shot now with combat Stims ans everything
alpine needle
I don'tblock on zealot because if I did then I'm not taking brains out of skulls which I'd much rather do.
But i do dodge
drowsy tusk
Gorgo oggy and sneaky krak-head get my vote
Stealth+damage stimm krak has hit for 3500+ damage on bosses for me
soft summit
Catch this chucklenuts
drowsy tusk
opaque crown
I did find that the ripper with light em up and flechette can tear a boss down in short order
hushed glade
My burn achlys with the +10 power on same target hit also fucking obliterates bosses
opaque crown
low accuracy matters less when the boss is so big yo ucan't miss!
and the ogryn firepower is generally high damage
distant surge
like, the one with no ammo pickups and only scabs 
alpine needle
Me throwing my krak nade after my Zealot has already bonked the Crushers to death
alpine needle
like, the one with no ammo pickups and only scabs <:vicksyConcern:11801323611034...
Zealot and psyker stay winning on these
opaque crown
you know that is one thing that is a bit obvious but very nice about psykers
they can effectively take up almost no resources from the team
meaning everyone else gets more
distant surge
Zealot and psyker stay winning on these
yis
only scabs, also means there are snipers right
lusty kelp
I went back to my psyker after hitting 22 on Ogryn and 29 on vet. Swapped to brain burst and it was a really good time. Just so different from assail, though
alpine needle
meaning everyone else gets more
I try to keep this utility mentality on at least one build per class. Like the nice people here told me bout the knife flinging zealot and it's use case as well as being an avid rocks enjoyer with my ogy. But i become incredibly greedy on my vet. 
distant surge
oh, psyker can deal with snipers no problem
alpine needle
only scabs, also means there are snipers right
There are, but assail don care
lusty kelp
I have to say so far, it feels like Ogryn and Vet are both just amazing though. The shout on Vet plus the plasma gun is incredible, and the Ogryn is just… man! The carry potential feels crazy (I’m using the vanguard build from the Ogrynomicon and I just feel so vigorously tough)
alpine needle
The wording is "mostly melee units" i think
distant surge
true!
if we doing dark maelstroms i feel like there's gotta be a vet that highlights specials for the party
cause being blind sucks
alpine needle
Oh ya great idea.
distant surge
what else is there for maelstroms/auric?
also, just a note for the difference in docket rewards for auric missions and normal ones
cyan depot
Better emperor’s gifts
alpine needle
Oh ya great idea.
Or even bully ogryns taunt could be a useful indicator since it specifically lights up heads
dawn totem
Just starting to get the hang of the Zealot.
cyan depot
Honestly I think a lot of it is just helped by using lower precision weapons
marsh gyro
Four Rippers firing into the darkness
cyan depot
Most enemies are also forced to fight closer up because the darkness does effect them
opaque crown
i find the most common panic solo carry class to be the zealot
alpine needle
Same, however infil vet deserves an honorable mention and flowers
I run two charges and the longer cool down I don't really notice it
May now be my favorite class actually
opaque crown
atm, i think ogryn is my favorite, though it does sometimes stagnate for me
because i find myself limited in my build diversity options when picking around my teammates
alpine needle
But it's completely feast or famine. You either run around like a god of blades and bullets or your paste under 6 crushers
alpine needle
because i find myself limited in my build diversity options when picking around ...
It would be my second favorite easy if I wasn't malice locked right now. I want to become incredible with the kickback and shield. I need better kit but bullgryn in so fun
opaque crown
im usually running ripper/shield on my main main
ripper to can open crushers
and relatively accurate long range shooting (for an ogryn)
and i also carry da big frag
alpine needle
Da big frag is the reason I try to run a nade that doesn't need a consumable on my other classes. Have that thing as a problem solver makes big bunches of armor weep blood.
opaque crown
"Oh no, time to make it quiet"
alpine needle
Seeing character models vanish before your eyes really is something special
soft summit
Mist'd
cloud hazel
spiral badger
i need the points so I can't run it on my shovel ogryn
but it's fine
because I have shovel
cloud hazel
shovil'
marsh gyro
Real Shovel Knight hours
opaque crown
heavy geyser
did hallowette stock update today?
native roost
<:vicksyBork:996566504311099533> what else is there for maelstroms/auric?
Other than some more cash, the thrill of it. Auric/maelstroms truly test your mettle and knowledge, it's such a great experience
alpine needle
Doing them with randoms feels bad, sometimes. Sometimes it's beautiful and you're all moving like the four horsemen.
lusty kelp
I had a game like the latter.
Malice, hi intensity shock troop
Some ungodly mix of monstrosities plus maulers plus bulwarks, ragers, and an armored Ogryn spawned, we killed them all
My wife typed in chat “I hope that was the worst of this.”
The vet types “We are the worst of this.” And we proceeded to absolutely annihilate the run with nobody being downed even once.
drowsy tusk
<@&1042950387478560878> yall around?
alpine needle
The vet types “We are the worst of this.” And we proceeded to absolutely annihil...
Fuck ya
drowsy tusk
The vet types “We are the worst of this.” And we proceeded to absolutely annihil...
and then he said its tiding time
alpine needle
I wish it was tiding time I'd be very down but there is an hour and a half left in the day
alpine needle
If I could add an emote to the game I would want one that grants 1000% damage to the first rock thrown by our teams ogryn, who is not the source of the emote but instead any other class. The emote is just a jojos pose, and the ogy has to be stood just behind you as the huck their rock for it to work.
marsh gyro
What JoJo's Bizarre Adventure arc had a rock in it
marsh gyro
Oh I just got to the Doppio part in 5 so hadn't seen that one yet
alpine needle
And something about an ogy hucking a rock over your shoulder while you're on point feels like you deserve to do the Jotaro point
Same with psykers assail. Would be funny if you did the emote and all of the assil darts turned green. Because Emerald Splash can't miss you see 
distant surge
i like the french
cause the french like me
they invited me to the french lancer discord
distant surge
i feel very welcome there
dawn totem
Almost every game I've been in has knocked me off with Error: 2014
cyan depot
I didn't realize there was a French lancer discord
distant surge
distant surge
this looks doable
does shock still stop mutants? i feel like it would be needed for this specific maelstrom
cyan depot
yes
distant surge
i feel like zealot is also really good at killing them
cyan depot
I think with the chain weapon buffs most people can be now
distant surge
think it's easier with everyone packing one of those?
cyan depot
Not necessarily specifically one of those but a melee which can kill mutants quickly is pretty important imo
distant surge
so chain weapons, thunder hammer feels good for killing them too
what else?
also shocky psycher
marsh gyro
Mutants take triple melee damage so if you can poke 'em good go for it
cyan depot
Actually sort of related <@&1042950387478560878> anyone wanna tide some this evening?
tough compass
Yes!
cyan depot
I'm down
dawn totem
Feels like there are a lot more disconnects with the new update.
cloud hazel
auric ain't shit
distant surge
distant surge
drowsy tusk
distant surge
@cyan depot 
where is that score board
cyan depot
Oh sorry I forgot to post it
It wasn't super exciting except for your 19,600 peak single hit damage
quiet escarp
Been farting around with the rippers again and I've come to the conclusion that nerfing their total ammo pool was the opposite of what fatshark ought to have done with them. They feel like they should have the largest pool of any ogryn weapon, given how inefficient they are
distant surge
It wasn't super exciting except for your 19,600 peak single hit damage
oooh
drowsy tusk
ope yea thatll do em
marsh gyro
Been farting around with the rippers again and I've come to the conclusion that ...
Are you using them with gun ogryn ability or vanilla? I run them with fire bullets and a shovel and their burst damage is super handy for rager conventions
Inspiring Barrage is also a game changer blessing
opaque crown
I've personally found them quite versatile
quiet escarp
Just trying them out on my standard melee build to see how they could fit in, it just feels like without the gunner buffs they're so inefficient that they're not really worth considering
But I guess that could be the intent
drowsy vine
I'm very much a Ripper disbeliever myself yeah, I think with the buffs everything else has gotten around them they don't really have a place anymore
If you want a shotty now, kickback is fiending
cyan depot
They badly need more ammo imo
And less bizarre burst mods even if they’re lore accurate
quiet escarp
Yeah, I think they could be alright if they had enough ammo that you could use them consistently
cyan depot
I’ve got one set up pretty nicely with crits and bleed and it clears… most small things in a large area if I mag dump
But I have like 3 magazines
hushed glade
Rippers fucking rule
I wouldn't put them above anything else really except like
The rumbler
But in terms of fun factor
DELETING hordes is absolutely amazing
lusty kelp
Are snipers supposed to be able to shoot through solid walls?
drowsy vine
No
lusty kelp
Great
lost a heresy run to that
the one with the stims at the end, in what looks like an amphitheatre
shot us all through walls
I am epically tilted
drowsy vine
Are you absolutely sure?
lusty kelp
Absolutely sure
It either had to be behind me, or through a wall, because the laser was going through a wall
and there was, to my knowledge, nothing behind me
(I turned and checked and then got nailed a second time)
plush basalt
Afaik, the shots can go through thin walls, similar to plasma, but they need to be targeting something they can see.
heavy geyser
Is it possible the laser points at your model's center but the shot hits your exposed arm?
lusty kelp
Is it possible the laser points at your model's center but the shot hits your ex...
You know what, I bet it was this.
I will have to be more careful of it in the future
(And hopefully get a slightly better team, lol)
mint yew
this thing is very shiny
cloud hazel
las🅱️istol
mint yew
absolutely requires the full auto mod to be even slightly usable
mint yew
also very tempted to buy this
cloud hazel
55% cleave targets is so funny with deathblow
mint yew
yeah, it counterbalances a lot
why does melk offer my psyker of all people the superknife
cloud hazel
jesus shitting fuck
drowsy vine
whuh
cloud hazel
ITS FUCKING HAPPENING
mint yew
well, it's my day off, time to absolutely murder some poor bastards
<@&1042950387478560878> bring your best monstrosity melting service we're going hunting
white portal
Bring your best whacking stick
soft summit
Of course
Just as I'm about to head to work
Can I ask, everyone spoil their stuff for today at least?
soft summit
anyone else around right now or shall I go for my first attempt with pubs?
what chat?
mint yew
act1
white portal
Unfortunately have to care for cats ATM maybe later
onyx mantle
It actually has mechanics
also the map is nice ||even if its just slightly changed mission map, the new lighting and decoration add a lot||
soft summit
Damnation is done
mint yew
not a massively difficult fight when you know what you are actually doing
stubber ogryn with the gungryn ult absolutely shreds
soft summit
Beware the fart gas though
distant surge
corrupting fart clouds
also for a member of the inquisition
the Interrogator man isn't THAT bad
white portal
So question, is there any reason to take a knife on a zealot over a thunderhammer or stuff like that?
mint yew
attack speed goes absolutely insane, and with your crit tree you can do incredible Bleed crimes
soft summit
It's the damage build
High skill floor but extremely high skill ceiling
Or so I've heard
distant surge
i don't take it cause i already use knife on vet
and that would make it boring and all
marsh gyro
So question, is there any reason to take a knife on a zealot over a thunderhamme...
You run fast as hell
Between Heavy Sword, Thunder Hammer, and Eviscerator it's easy to get 5 very different loadouts just with class specific stuff so it doesn't shine as bright
The new Mk6 knife is fast becoming a favorite though and I'm chasing haymaker blessing on it
spiral badger
knife is extremely effective against everything, you get to go very fast, and you crit even more than normal
so it's great for CDR builds
tough compass
Knife is a lot of fun
rigid oriole
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995700310 There apparently is a hidden Hard Mode you can activate/unlock in the new mission.
white portal
Should I not have the knife on the invisible build? I have a pretty good knife but should I be running crits on it instead?
cyan depot
I run a knife with invis and it’s good
marsh gyro
Knife comes with a built in crit bonus so it'll crit good no matter what
If you run Flesh Tearer (bleed on crit) and the crit on bleed node it becomes the self sustaining crit economy
marsh gyro
Is that some kind of horrible Pokémon ROM hack creation or is MissingNo on the loose
white portal
All I know is that it's from the Pale/Red TTT game and it gets posted whenever people start having blood fueled meltdowns
mint yew
top secret hard mode sounds fun since I already did the normal version
soft summit
Secret mode?
Oh nice
Do you get anything special?
Extra lore, etc
Or just the new Pendant?
mint yew
cooler pendant
mint yew
no idea, haven't done it
mint yew
but it does unlock an auto-teleport to the boss and if that actually puts you in the hallway in front of the elevator then that's big plasteel farm
tough compass
<https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995700310> There appare...
That seems weirdly convoluted to unlock a hard mode
soft summit
Destiny Raid Secret stuff
dawn totem
Oh man I hope not. This might be karma for goofing on friends who play Destiny 2.
hushed glade
You get good karma for goofing on friends who play Destiny
cyan depot
<@&1042950387478560878> I wanna go fight some twins
hushed glade
I'm doing a warm up round of malice but I'd be down
cyan depot
I'll be in activity 1
mint yew
@cyan depot I can still play if you're OK with me not being on voice
tag me in if you want a 4th
cyan depot
Oh ok cool
spiral badger
ok i've beaten it on damnation
cyan depot
@mint yew if you don't mind I wanna bring in everyone on voice
mint yew
fair, I will clear out
spiral badger
my notes:
- kill the ranged guy first
- you're going to have to do the heigan dance, so bring your running and knocking down shoes
- ranged guy is weak to melee, melee girl is weak to ranged, prioritize fire appropriately
mint yew
- it's very easy to pull aggro, if you need to rez then have a zealot or ogryn tap each of them twice and then play defensive while your other 1-2 people pick up
can't rez in hard mode, though
spiral badger
- once their shields are down they're very easy to knock over - ogryn bonk to the head, pplasma shot to the face, shout will all do it
- focus one and then the other during the shield phases, you have more than enough time to down the second shield and having one of them out of your face for it makes it super easy
- I think psykers kind of suffer badly during this. Sorry psykers. Focus on crowd control and cheering on your team. If you have 4 psykers... well, good luck
tough compass
Oh, does hard mode mean no picking up versus no rescuing?
Or whatever the terms are for downed versus dead dead
hushed glade
drowsy tusk
hushed glade
drowsy tusk
distant surge
boom tchk tchk
drowsy tusk
cloud hazel
that is not a knife
hushed glade
this is how a professional does it
soft summit
Just like in my anime...
distant surge
anime
anyway now i need to hit you with a bat for being a weeb 
cause we live in the imperium and ur not allowed to have fun unless ur from the inquisition
distant surge
yeh but orkz aren't really imperium citizens
alpine needle
Sometimes they used to be, depends on how you look at it
Sometimes you jus gotta paint yourself green and drive really fast around the desert
Or was that game called GorkaMorka I can't remember
distant surge
white portal
How do you do the cool new fight thing?
cyan depot
It's in the bottom left corner of the mission board
The servers are having a bit of a moment atm though
cyan depot
That last run was going pretty ok until the server shat itself
mint yew
yeah, I beat my first attempt at Damnation because the servers decided to behave
I am in if anyone wants to run some more at any point tonight
cyan depot
I'm gonna do some more this evening I think
I want to wait until the servers aren't getting crushed
mint yew
might be after bedtime for little old me but I will maybe try again in an hour ro so
lusty kelp
I saw a video that said that the Mk IV Cleaver was the best Ogryn weapon, but I don’t really understand why (compared to say, the shield)
Could someone ELI5 for me, please
slender shell
Not sure best but it has a good mix of single target and cleave
distant surge
yeah, I beat my first attempt at Damnation because the servers decided to behave
also because you had a skully on your team of course
alpine needle
Rock is best ogy weapon
marsh gyro
I saw a video that said that the Mk IV Cleaver was the best Ogryn weapon, but I ...
The Ogryn melee weapons serve different purposes and mix and match well with the different Ogryn guns
Shield is phenomenal crowd control and less good vs carapace while the shovels and bully clubs are all rounders that bonk carapace real good but have less cleave
The cleavers mulch hordes the fastest (mk 3 with lights, mk4 with heavies, mk6 is hybrid) but the Mk4 has the best performance vs carapace with its stabby lights and has synergy on the heavies with melee tree so it's popular
distant surge
i think like what ya need is someone to handle the armored fellas that show up, some guy with a big chainsword to handle the shields and u are good for the most part
marsh gyro
Power maul on the ogryn is a favorite of mine because even though it doesn't necessarily swing the fastest and the special only does like 1k to carapace you can flatten everyone in a crowd over and over with chained heavies and specials
alpine needle
I like taunt shield the best
lusty kelp
The Ogryn melee weapons serve different purposes and mix and match well with the...
Thank you!
stable whale
So, am I just going about it wrong, or does the hellbore lasgun just feel abjectly awful for anyone else to use? It feels like I'm just trying to use a slower, less accurate and less damaging heavy laspistol or something unless I want to hunker down somewhere and use charged shots nonstop, which to put it bluntly, the game does not fucking let you do
marsh gyro
So, am I just going about it wrong, or does the hellbore lasgun just feel abject...
Which mark helbore are you using because they have very different handling
mint yew
observation for the new boss fight: it is far easier if one of the vets on the team has the "ammo crate replenishes grenades" talent because it means the ogryn can depth charge the first 2-3 waves of maulers and ragers
and the only time I've ever seen a wipe is when you get that last mauler & rager double pack
marsh gyro
We didn't know how the gas phase worked and wiped on that part (you gotta chase the lighted fans)
mint yew
which is usually wave 2
alpine needle
So, am I just going about it wrong, or does the hellbore lasgun just feel abject...
I didn't particularly care for the one I used but I haven't tried others. The bayonet on it kicks so much ass. The irons on it are objectively awful
marsh gyro
Mk3 helbore has enough power to blast stuff with no ranged support and the most powerful bayonet and the chop is super awkward so Mk1 can still one shot most the important stuff while letting you spam the stab
slender shell
Hellbores do need the weapon mod mod for the sights
mint yew
not sure what to change on the perks but my god this knife
marsh gyro
Mk2 is weak enough on the shots it needs left side tree support to hit breakpoints and it both has the good bayonets and with Onslaught blessing can fire as fast as a Mk12 Kantrael so it rules on stance vet
stable whale
The one I was using was a mark 1 I think
alpine needle
Melee damage on elites could be something else
marsh gyro
not sure what to change on the perks but my god this knife
Elite damage to weak spot damage and call it a day
stable whale
But honestly it just feels to me like I can hit the most significant breakpoints that other weapons I've been using for shooty veteran (crushers, reavers, sometimes rangers) with a krak grenade instead
alpine needle
Ya that thing fuckin rips otherwise
alpine needle
But honestly it just feels to me like I can hit the most significant breakpoints...
Thats how I went about it too
marsh gyro
Yeah you still want to run kraks with a helbore because it ain't busting carapace efficiently without crits
alpine needle
I run my las pistol and or rifle and have a cover all class that brings a bolter if we need to kill a lot of armor.
marsh gyro
The big thing about a helbore vs a plasma or a bolter is the bayonet so you don't have to switch to melee for lone scabs or the like
alpine needle
Otherwise I save my nades for armor removal and bank on my buddies to take care of the big boys.
marsh gyro
With Shock Trooper no ammo on crit node and Surgical blessing you can have ridiculous ammo efficiency
alpine needle
Plus with infiltrator I'm switching weapons constantly
marsh gyro
Plus with infiltrator I'm switching weapons constantly
What build is your infiltrator? Mine is shovel and shotgun
alpine needle
What build is your infiltrator? Mine is shovel and shotgun
Las pistol, devil claw
So I can duel big boys if I need to but otherwise I'm just fast as fuck and rezzing everyone
Support vet feels good, support anything feels good imo.
The clutches are their own rewards
marsh gyro
This one's my Lucius Mk1 tree with power sword in the melee, it's a solid support generalist with a lot of flexibility
alpine needle
Oooh ya I don't have a shouty vet yet
@alpine needle
Whats the use case for the shredder nades?
Really feels like everyone goes krak, tho I did play with someone using smoke and that gave me a chuckle
cloud hazel
shredder nades thin hordes massively and can kill maulers and rager packs far more efficiently than kraks
marsh gyro
Their AOE is bonkers
cloud hazel
they're by far the best grenade to run with heavy weapons that can delete big boys already like bolter/plasma/power sword/chaxe and they give you one of the most important things as a veteran, which is space to do your shit
unlike kraks there is basically never a bad place to use them so you get way more effective grenades from your grenade regen, because you're using them way more often
alpine needle
Holy shit that makes a lot of sense.
cloud hazel
they can keep gunner packs flinched with bleed and they also have incidental fun synergy with both ogryn and zealot talents
throwing a shredder in behind your ogryn and giving them basically a psyker dome's worth of toughness regen every time they swing into a crowd is 
alpine needle
Oh fuck yes
cloud hazel
zealot will also thank you for spiking their crit by 30%
opaque crown
yeah i think shredders are by far the most widely usable of the nades on vet
kraks arent bad, but they're far more limited in scope
and smoke is a challenge
cloud hazel
please steal the csgo thing of making smokes extinguish fire
cyan depot
Oh that would be cool
opaque crown
its just hard to actually quantify its effect
especially when the other two are actually killing things
cloud hazel
smoking the obj in hacking missions is extremely good
opaque crown
I've absolutely had smokes come in clutch before, but even then it felt a bit nebulous
cloud hazel
the guy inside doesn't care about the reduced visibility
opaque crown
a big one was carnival, where i made all the 16 gunner just come running into melee
thanks to the smoke
cloud hazel
the most infuriating thing is really the sniper interaction
opaque crown
i vascillate between "im gonna make smokes work, theyre AWESOME" and "man im tired, im just gonna take shredders, double nade, nade regen, and the other nade regen"
alpine needle
I too want them to work. But the randoms I see play with them it's almost like they forget they have it equipped?
spiral badger
mission report after trying it for an hour: hard mode is hard
alpine needle
So they just huck a smoke at a Crusher and now we're fighting in the dark.
Which is cool in it's own way
spiral badger
like, legit "my auric damnation ready team of friends got our butts kicked by it" hard
alpine needle
Interesting
I'm excited to give it a go. My boys and gal are stuck in Malice even though they wont admit it.
When I get the level 30 psyker finished ( and never touch it again) I'd like to shore up some of my other builds and classes and run some hard modes with you gamers
mint yew
I think it's the kind of mode where you explicitly need a purpose-built team with a specific plan
I would probably go with 1-2x Ogryn with frag bomb and gungryn ult stubbers, a vet with the talent for replenishing grenades with ammo crate and then someone built to tank aggro for as long as possible
whether that's juiced Deflector, a Zealot or an Ogryn
drowsy vine
Relic zealot
mint yew
and then every single time a wave of elites shows up you just depth charge the entire pack
quiet escarp
Yeah that last round when they summon in a dozen maulers is what's been doing folks in, just managed it with randos though
quiet escarp
Wait there's a harder than damnation mode?
alpine needle
By the glory of the beneficent Emperor 🫴
mint yew
if you hit a bunch of secret bells in the level, it triggers Awful Mode
where, among many other things, there are no respawns
drowsy vine
Oh jesus
quiet escarp
What in the world
alpine needle
Lol what
marsh gyro
This is a very very funny shovel, it's the foldable one for Vet, it'll one shot a mauler or crusher on special heavy crit or just short of one with Agile Engagement up, if I scrape up a little plasteel for carapace damage I think it'll be a great power sword alternative
cloud hazel
yeah the new vet meme spoon is kind of bugfuck
opaque crown
i like how it'll drop a crusher with 59% damage
marsh gyro
120% power solves a lot of issues turns out
mint yew
I need Thrust 4 on my ogryn club because it's already great for just holding down the button and chaining max charge heavy melee
white portal
Thrust on my big Ogryn shovel :3
opaque crown
I only have thrust 3 on mine
marsh gyro
I only have thrust 3 on mine
If you go right side vet and dip left to grab weak spot damage node that should make up the difference, my tests were without the 30% weak spot bump
marsh gyro
May the Brunt gacha be kind
drowsy vine
<@&1042950387478560878> lfg twins fight diff 5 no items final destination
alpine needle
Lol
mint yew
<@&1042950387478560878> looking for one more for a hardmode attempt
distant surge
am i naming my Ogryn "Bork"?
distant surge
<@&1042950387478560878> looking for one more for a hardmode attempt
i'm down for it in a bit
can ya wait like 15 minutes while i finish doing what i have to do? xD
alpine needle
am i naming my Ogryn "Bork"?
Yes 
drowsy vine
The fact we need to do actual theorycrafting to clear hard mode is Legitimately Good
soft summit
define theorycrafting
drowsy vine
For builds and team composition
mint yew
was spending resources I expected to need to open the final phase in the first fifteen seconds
soft summit
Nice
mint yew
drowsy vine
lmao
distant surge
mint yew
I imagine that shoutyvet can't rez in the cage but you might want one anyway
because getting rezzes in that is a nightmare with Rinda knockback
distant surge
i believe so
also because of the crowd control
knock everone on their asses and run to the other safe spot for example
distant surge
trying out martyr too
i tried maximizing toughness regeneration for this build and got a 30% regeneration speed on all of my relics
heavy geyser
+health is good to have on martyr builds so each wound has more health in it
distant surge
yeah i got either a +4 or a +5% on each of em as well
and combat ability regeneration
distant surge
that's all i've been doing ever since i reached lvl 30 with funny priest
also i don't really know how i should be handling the crusher
the penetration on that one is kind of crap but folks say it doesn't matter much
65% btw
cyan depot
65% isn't that bad
marsh gyro
Yeah the difference in 60% in a stat and like 80% is usually 6-8% throughput and can be compensated by blessings and perks most the time
distant surge
right
in that case what are the perks i should aim for?
i think i have damag to unyielding plus something else
marsh gyro
Yeah Unyielding plus flak or weak spot should do the trick
distant surge
4% critical hit chance, i have trauma and skullcrusher for the perks and i heard those are good
marsh gyro
Yeah that's a good spread already, crit chance is nice
distant surge
oh, should i keep that one then? the crit chance one that is
cyan depot
Since its IMO sort of perk-neutral and can help get rezzes
marsh gyro
Yeah you can save the plasteel for now
cloud hazel
...does block efficiency apply while you have the weapon out while rezzing...
distant surge
good question, i do have a relic for that tho
cloud hazel
for christ's sake
distant surge
dang i built a ton of relics for zelly
cloud hazel
cyan depot
Which makes rezzing with weapons with a good Defense stat or a psyker with a Deflector sword way easier
marsh gyro
Also why I always grab peril on block for Psyker because it counts while picking up a mate
cyan depot
Yeah and with Deflector on top of that you can get away with some really wild rezzes
distant surge
right 
when we compare the crusher to other zelly weapons what's the role for this one
cyan depot
It's sort of unique
The Most Stagger weapon
Works ok on everything but doesn't kill anything that fast
marsh gyro
Great single target bonking, can stagger crowds good with special, goes good with a braced autogun or autopistol or flamer