Legionnaire

[teal abyss]

I am very confused, where's the typo?

wait, are you looking at SP (system points)

(also, I have decided to post up some more lore snippets on bsky, I will copy them over here as I post them)

Paradisa

The FSLC Paradisa is an experimental tech defender mech gifted to the Sanjak Ungratefuls by a HORUS cell who incorporated DHIYED paracode into the Kobold PG. Its signature hyperreality memetics allow it to hack enemies and draw attacks towards itself, by making itself "more real than real".

Pilots who survive unfiltered exposure to its memetics commonly report extended dissociative episodes and persistent feelings of derealization. First hand reports describe exposure as "like seeing the heart of the universe", "diving into the ocean behind reality", or a form of religious epiphany.

This unique codebase is a double-edged sword for Ungrateful memeticists, who find themselves handling virulent self-replicating strains that infect every system they touch and pose serious risk to the unwary - raising concerns about the supposed "benevolence" of their HORUS benefactors.

Titanis

The FSLC Titanis is a colossal siege mech created by uparmoring the gigantic mining rigs of the Sanjak Underground. The sheer scale and industrial power of these mechs made them ideal platforms for military hardware and weaponry, and they quickly saw widespread adoption.

In the early years of the revolution each Titanis was a unique mech adapted on an ad hoc basis from the mining machines and materials available. This legacy and the high number of minor variants has provoked fierce debate over whether the Titanis should more properly be considered a pattern group.

Nevertheless, the Titanis became an unexpected revolutionary icon when a bold pilot breached the security perimeter of Ludra's palace and leveled it with a single strike of their demolition engine. This symbolic act was widely regarded as the beginning of the end for House Ludra's rule over Sanjak.

[glacial pulsar]

Oh wait that was the system points whoops!

[glacial pulsar]

putting this and base Kobold code into the same system to see what wins

[glacial pulsar]

I need to pilot one of these things so fucking bad its unreal

[teal abyss]

they're a lot of fun! if you get a chance to test it out let us know how it goes 🙂

so far playtest feedback has been very positive

[glacial pulsar]

it looks like a great time!

I have a character concept (originally created for doing a bit on tumblr) that would be perfect for a oneshot with the Titanis I think

also I've noticed that the Paradisa and Neophron feel like ideal teammates

[vivid snow]

I absolutely adore these frames, they all seem awesome. I will say, though, that when I read K-PG in the PDF my brain went to the Cretaceous-Paleogene boundary/extinction event before it went to the Kobold pattern group 😅

[teal abyss]

very understandable 😅

I imagine the Kobold has confused more than a few people with that one

[rare shard]

can't believe kobolds killed the dinosaurs

[tacit skiff]

Someone injected a funky USB into my dinosaur and it turned into a Kobold pattern group mech

[night iris]

dinosaurs are in the D&D monster manual so therefore are valid HORUS mech names

[kind marten]

ooooh titanis looks very fun

neophron may need a cap on how much armor it can add

[teal abyss]

it already has one

[kind marten]

oh!

[teal abyss]

the game has a standard armour cap of 4

[kind marten]

its been so long i read that section that i missed that white witch's stated cap is to get around that

ok yeah these all look fun

[teal abyss]

Lastly, the Neophron:

The FSLC Neophron is a rugged defensive mech built to outlast its enemies. Its layers of ablative armor and shielding are designed to be field-replaceable by stripping plating and systems from fallen mechs, giving it a vital edge in the extended guerrilla engagements of the Sanjak revolution.

An heir to Sanjak's tradition of practicality, the Neophron's design grants it an unparalleled ability to press on after taking catastrophic damage. Many an unwary kuirasser has been caught off-guard after believing they had made a successful kill-shot, only to have a Neophron return the favor.

As a result the frame has become popular far beyond Sanjak, seeing use in the Long Rim and diasporan locations where printing facilities can be few and far between. Some pilots take pride in pushing their Neophron as far as possible between overhauls, competing to see who can endure the longest.

[glacial pulsar]

actually fun question about these three: I know we're probably a WAYS off from getting any art of these, and lancer designs are obviously flexible, but did you have any general visual notes, inspirations or signatures in mind for these things?

[teal abyss]

not yet, but there is some Neophron-inspired art already #1057955574949625948 message

[lost gate]

A player just asked me a damn good question

Can an NHP just automatically control a person with the Player_Two neural bypass if that person is brain-dead? Like, literal brain death.

Can they willingly give up control to the NHP?

It feels like it's moving towards Decorp, but still

[tacit skiff]

As in their brain has ceased fuinction?

[lost gate]

more like medically braindead. have no consciousness but the brain still functions

it's alive, but cant do anything on it's own

[tacit skiff]

Then... The neural bypass only works if the person with it gives permission

Like, up to the GM when ran IG

[lost gate]

what if it's before they became braindead? does the nhp just have permanent control now?

[tacit skiff]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lost gate]

guess so. thanks for the answers

i let em know :>

[tacit skiff]

Alsoooo, it would not be decorp

Decorp is a human mind leaving the brain/becoming post human

An NHP piloting a person is no different to an NHP piloting a meat subaltern

TBF, that's quite a good player concept... An NHP and Human forced to live in the same body through a neural bypass trying to find a way to seperate eachother

Johnny silverhand ass NHP

[lost gate]

reminds me of Upgrade

[regal hearth]

That's something you could discuss with the DM

I have an NHP who controls a braindead body believing it's herself

[lost gate]

I am the dm

[regal hearth]

Oh

xD

[lost gate]

Yeaaaaaa

[tacit skiff]

God now I really wanna play a Johnny silverhand + V type character either as the NHP or the Pilot,

[glacial pulsar]

pilot with some form of severe damage to their nervous system that would be fatal but the NHP is working overtime to keep them alive

[tacit skiff]

(This is quite self explanatory now i think of it but im double checking) Sorry if this has already been answered, but if a Puppeteer or Nergal class NHP revives a class that can't become a grunt normally, I assume they lose all relevant systems, traits and weapons

So reviving a vet loses veterancy and their trait, reviving an ultra removes their say... ravager cannon and short cycle lance, but I assume it's up to the GM with how much effort they want to put if they put in an elite with the "select +1 optional"

[teal abyss]

Yes that's the default, but I've also seen it run the other way specifically to keep the ultra optionals and that's broadly fine too. Mostly depends how you feel about your PCs getting their hands on a short cycle lance

[tacit skiff]

Mmm

I do like the concept but what made me hesitant is that if a system like that stays then technically the extra activations trait stays, then it's not really not an ultra any more

Could rule it as "keep all optionals" but because I use foundry and can just delete the templates it auto removes the optionals anyway so it's just safer to not

[spark imp]

-- IPS-N Titanis @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Tortuga 3, HORUS Kobold 2, HORUS Gorgon 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Prospector 3, Vanguard 3, Skirmisher 2, Siege Specialist 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:6 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:32 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:3 EVA:6 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  HEAVY MOUNT: Daisy Cutter
  FLEX MOUNT: Slag Cannon (Throughbolt Rounds) // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Custom Paint Job, Seismic Ripper, Mimic Mesh```
i think prospector and kobold stuff on this does some numbers actually
kinda love the interaction of the sanjak mechs

[glacial pulsar]

oh hell fucking yeah

if you're cool with it, I may lift aspects of this build for a character I've had in mind

[spark imp]

yea idm at all, just something i threw together earlier when i was inspired lol

[grim sluice]

If I wanted to deploy multiple Puppeteers in a Holdout, y'all have a recommended base optional I give them all?

It's my first time using them and introducign them so keeping things simpler would be preferred

Currently considering Mother of Monsters but that feels like too much

I'm thinking either Deadly Minions or Shield of Bodies, but because the encounter I'm running this with is using the same map as a previous encounter, and therefore the same wrecks, there will be the likes of a Lurker and Avenger among the wrecks, which makes Deadly Minions scary. But Shield of Bodies is also boring to me

Plus as a first time Puppeteer deployment invalidating their gimmick with Deadly Minions almost feels cheap

It feels like a case of "I want to do X despite the fact it's probably a bad idea"

[teal abyss]

what tier are you playing at? MoM is much more useful at lower tiers

[grim sluice]

Tier 1

It just adds in more l trouble of having to track who’s who’s minions, plus all 3 of my puppeteers lack any structure templates so idk how much a chance it’ll have to be relevant

But you’re probably right about it being the best bet

[teal abyss]

yeah I think it's probably the most iconic optional, if you're able to run it. I'd also suggest Shield of Bodies as having minimal impact for the first time, but I totally hear you that it's not as exciting as the others

[grim sluice]

Especially because the only player we have that’s invested in artillery is a CPR Pegasus

Our swallowtail has oracles I guess, our Kidd doesn’t care much, and our Zheng doesn’t care at all

Think I’ll give myself a treat and let some or all of them get the multi-res optional in addition to mother of monsters now that I’m hearing the party comp out loud again

[inland oasis]

Knowing somewhat where you're at, I ran a Puppeteer Support with Mother of Monsters and my PCs hated it so much one left the Holdout OZ for it to go kill it.

I also gave it Commander to be extra annoying.

[thorn hedge]

Question

If the PC is an NHP, does that take up the mechs AI slot?

[full isle]

I would need to check if the book explicitly says that doesn't, but it shouldn't. The "AI" limit is basically a gear limit, an NHP player character isn't "gear" any more than a human player character. Not to say that in-universe it would be right to treat a non-piloting NHP as "gear"

[thorn hedge]

Ah okay makes sense

[full isle]

Found it in the book, "AI System Limits" on pg 91

Also, a Technophile III NHP explicitly can't prevent an NHP PC from cascading, so "NHP as gear" and "NHP as PC" don't interact at all.

[warm topaz]

What sort of narrative bonuses or opportunities would you allow for using the player 2 module? I was thinking of allowing a player to continue acting in a scene after breaking , but that's a bit niche

[fading pilot]

My suggestion is that you have the player pick three skill triggers for their NHP. 1/scene, they can roll one of those triggers with a +2 bonus at LL 0-4, +4 at 5-8, and +6 at 9-12. Having more NHPs doesn't let you pick more triggers or use it more often.

[teal abyss]

Gaining access to skill triggers is certainly a fun idea! Personally I just treat it as regular pilot gear: allow narrative approaches that it enables and give +1 Accuracy to relevant skill checks. Players tend to come up with lots of cool ideas for how they want to use stuff like this so being flexible and receptive to their plans works for me.

[full isle]

This is a really helpful idea. A few sessions ago I had a player who wanted to use the item to have their NHP control their rock climbing, I chose to veto it at the time because it really felt like an idea that needed guardrails first.

[lost gate]

using NERGAL in my IGF campaign. looking forward to it

[rotund patrol]

Nergal is so sick

[solid olive]

Question about legionnaire 2 talent, if you clear your condition, does that also clear the enemy condition?

[fading pilot]

Nope, they're separate.

[night iris]

Yeah, and there's not much difference between saying like
"ATHENA can use Investigate at +2 through your player2" vs "ATHENA can give you +1 Accuracy to this through your player2"

[grim sluice]

Just out of curiosity- was the Puppeteer Template in playtest ever like commander in that it came with Structure? I’m just curious because the playstyle of it feels like it would’ve had that to assist it’s playstyle in a past life- not saying it should have structure either I think it’s fine the way it is

[teal abyss]

no, there are other ways to give NPCs structure if you want (we playtested a lot of Ultra Puppeteers, for example)

[grim sluice]

Ye for sure- was just curious about the design history, I think it not coming with structure gives more flexibility which is more valuable than durability/ability to be a set piece on its own

[lost gate]

what are some good NPC classes to put puppeteer on as a friendly NPC? my players have a NERGAL-Class-NHP and have been thinking about putting them in a new mech frame in the future

[grim sluice]

An NPC with actions to spare is the easiest option, so something like Support would be good

||considering that specific NPC, Priest or Pyro would be narratively befitting||

Speaking of Puppeteer, do y’all have any specific recommendations for running Grunt Wrecks when it comes to Puppeteers? Is it balanced around the fact that Grunts would leave behind wrecks so the Puppeteer can keep reviving the same NPC, or should destroyed grunts leave behind no wrecks?

[teal abyss]

destroyed grunts do leave wrecks so it is intended that you reuse them (unless the PCs destroy the wreck before you can reanimate it)

[grim sluice]

Cool just checking that I was running it right, thanks!

[paper dirge]

no questions or anything, just wanted to talk about how my last session was me and a Barricade constantly poking at each other because it had no other legal targets thanks to how the battlefield changed over the course of the mission.

it kept tagging me with its Graviton Lance to inflict Slow on me, I kept using Legionnaire 2's Reflective Code reaction to make it slowed as well. this went on for four rounds straight!

in summary:

[teal abyss]

lmao

[urban flower]

the data dart is not a tech attack, it just uses the tech attack, right?

[fading pilot]

Yep. It's a Main Launcher attack. As such, it can be enhanced by Walking Armory and Stormbringer.

[hallow jasper]

Another GM here that’s gotten incredible mileage out of your work, currently have two players that have separately opted into temporary H-NHP gestalts within the first two LLs.

Went from pitching Lancer to a playgroup that was categorically skeptical of a sci-fi ttrpg to waking up to dms like these: (shared with permission of course)

[teal abyss]

Gosh I'm so glad you're having a good time with it, thank you for sharing! I hope it continues to go well 💜

[finite sapphire]

"i am very normal" is the exact kind of thing you want to hear

[jagged shadow]

this is probably a dumb question but does puppeteer work on grunts it revived before or no?

[teal abyss]

yep. Unless the wreck is destroyed it can be animated again

[jagged shadow]

oh ok sick lol

[tacit skiff]

Hey, want input on a hypothetical scenario.

Nergal class NHP says it ovdrrides any templates that would not allow it to be a grunt or Puppeteer removes all templates and gives grunt... what if either of those tries to revive an NPC that can't take grunt? Such as an MBT or a tempest? Is the answer simply "you can't revive them" or "give them grunt anyway"

Or the best answer: GM discretion, you put a Puppeteer on the same field as a tempest, you figure it out

[stoic moth]

GM discretion I think

Probably make clear to the players what the interaction is

There's multiple conflicting "specific beats general" here and it's not clear which one takes precedent and is "more specific" so GM says what they want

[teal abyss]

So obviously Legionnaire was developed and tested before either of those were published, which means I genuinely don't know what would happen if you tried to make this work. To my knowledge I don't think anyone has tried.

The general intent is for the Grunt template to always overwrite other restrictions, but strictly rules-as-written an animated Tempest/MBT would not allow that since Centerpiece/Rolling Thunder are traits that exist on a class rather than a template. This ruling would make them much more powerful than a regular animated wreck, and I think that could cause unforeseen problems (though a Tempest without its climate nodes is less of a threat than it would ordinarily be). My advice would probably be along the lines of "don't do this unless you're willing to live with the consequences".

The more tricky question would be "what happens if a NERGAL-class NHP animates a Tempest/an MBT" since that's a player-controlled ability. In that case I would probably enforce the Grunt template despite the wording of those traits, just for balance purposes if nothing else. I can't imagine a player getting too mad about that, because to be honest just getting to animate them in the first place is pretty cool - even if they only last a turn or two.

[glacial pulsar]

I could also see slotting in a similar enough base NPC class in place of the weird gimmick ones

[teal abyss]

hey gang, I don't know if anyone is still interested in the FSLC mechs but we've been playtesting a new core power for the Paradisa

it's unlikely to survive in this form forever (we're still getting a handle on the full ramifications of messing with LOS) but figured I should throw it up here for completeness

[rare shard]

ooooooooh

[teal abyss]

so far it seems to be working, which is not what I expected. more testing needed

[novel ocean]

Actually Kat did you have any ideas for how these frames might be represented by NPCs (third party is cool)?

I have Plans™️ for post-SotW stuff and I just want to keep some things in my back pocket

[teal abyss]

Sorry, what do you mean by represented?

[novel ocean]

Oh like if I were to do a combat where the enemies might be using FSLC chassis, what NPC classes would be closest to them

[teal abyss]

Oh! I guess the Titanis is close to a Demolisher and the Paradisa isn't a million miles from a Mirage. Maybe the Nephron could be a Bastion? IDK it's not quite one to one

[novel ocean]

Thanks, I'll keep these in mind for if they become relevant in my campaign

[glacial pulsar]

Oh I really like this core power concept

[warm topaz]

i'm curious, do you have any ideas visually for what you imagine the FSLC mechs looking like? In terms of shared 'vibes' and things like that

[teal abyss]

not yet

I try not to think about that sort of thing too much until later on in the development

if pressed I would imagine that they're fairly rough-and-ready, with some Karrakin influence but less greebling/ostentatious design

[proud cape]

can someone come up with like 3 names of these dramas for me

im drawing a blank

[verbal heron]

maybe they're like, incredibly long-winded

putting a light novel title to shame

practically like the entire summary

since NHPs would read far faster than humans

[rare shard]

Synchronicity
Biorhythm Bebop
Across the Stars

[proud cape]

ty ty

i was thinking some long hex string tbh but i dont want to suffer by having to read 4163726f737320746865205374617273

[verbal heron]

consider: you can make your players suffer with that too

[finite sapphire]

it'd be funny if they were just like glyphs

QR code type thing that is also an episode of a tv show

[spark imp]

make one of them the teleport symbols from no mans sky lol

[teal abyss]

In particular the long-running series Metaspace
Adventure Go!, which follows the career of a group of
fictional NHPs in the First Interest War, has spawned a
huge number of copycats and derivative works
valorizing the efforts of NHPs across Union. Some of
these derivatives have become influential in their own
right, such as SEKHMET’s Company, the Sinifere
series and its various spinoffs, and The Black Legion.

next paragraph, though they're a bit more military-oriented

[potent sky]

Reading through this right now and I am in love. This book is going to help SO MUCH with my Horizon focussed campaign

[proud cape]

its a rly good book im like a kid in a candy store here with my nhp char

[foggy phoenix]

For some reason now I'm imagining each episode of a NHP dramma coming with whole in universe news casts, articles, maybe even a entire contained internet for the universe within

[proud cape]

whats the difference between blinkspace and legionspace?

if any

[rare shard]

legionspace is more like "cyberspace"

not a parallel universe

[proud cape]

do NHPs inhabit both of them?

its not really spelled out anywhere and im playing an nhp pilot in my game 😭

this might be a #lore-and-worldbuilding question actually but im asking for my own chars perspective

[teal abyss]

Not really, at least in the sense that most people mean when they talk about blinkspace. An NHP inhabits the folded blinkspace within a casket, but that's distinct from blinkspace as is generally understood (in Legionnaire, the space inside a casket is like a pocket of blinkspace disconnected from everything else, and is sustained by the casket)

legionspace is more of a conceptual space (kind of like how a discord server or a VR chat is a space) though it tends to be physically localised because it's most often associated with fleet legions who are operating in physical proximity

[mystic mist]

(As the gm for this person's game, I thank you for this information)

[teal abyss]

If you're thinking about this from the perspective of your character, your NHP's "mind" is stored within their casket (in the same way as human consciousness is largely a product of the brain), but interaction can take place outside of that through remote control of subalterns and networked electronics, and interfacing with digitally constructed spaces

[proud cape]

badass

[lost gate]

the NERGAL-CLASS NHP has been a godsend in giving our Lich pilot a reason to be a Lich

the NHP is just refusing to let him die

[tacit skiff]

Had my first PC cascade from a structure/stress check 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

It was from an overcharge -> Stress

1/3 chance -> 5% rolled the worst odds

[teal abyss]

let's gooo

[tacit skiff]

Also puppeteers are fucking great

She also is at the narrative stress that she'll break if she maintains control

[grim sluice]

I’m considering using the Legionnaire exotic NHPs if any of my players choose to seek them out, and I was curious about any anecdotes folks have about them.

Specifically, how they felt, were they fun, did they feel overwhelming/underwhelming, what did they pair well with- any thoughts whatsoever on them

[grim sluice]

I love the flavor of all the mechanics a lot, but with reference to my PCs specifically I worry they’ll feel either underwhelming or extremely scary to balance around (aka just Marduk). In reference to my PCs specifically not in general

That and I’m in need of ideas on how to flavor them + integrate them narratively

[finite sapphire]

one of the players in my group has played around with marduk and though i haven't solicited direct feedback from them, what i have observed anecdotally is that marduk is really good at facilitating truly astonishing Feelbad

[grim sluice]

Oh? How so?

[finite sapphire]

missing never feels good but missing after blowing a marduk charge — again, in my anecdotal experience — feels especially bad. such that if i personally were running the system, i don't even know if i'd want to use one if i wasn't willing to take a second bite at the apple if necessary. it also has kind of a peculiar interaction with main/aux mounts; because it's an on-hit effect that adds bonus damage, which the aux weapon on a main/aux mount cannot deal, it might actually feel better to miss with both parts of a main/aux skirmish so that you can overcharge and swing again

otherwise you run into the situation of missing with the main weapon and hitting with the aux weapon and all the bonus damage you would've gotten just disappears

[grim sluice]

Oh ok my player shouldn’t worry about it

He’s in a Zheng and is using Brawler-Pankrati-Duelist 3-Titanomachy strats

If he misses he has more attacks, but the odds of missing are low

[finite sapphire]

yeah if they're able to reliably attack more than once per turn in a way that isn't specifically hitting with the aux on a main/aux, that should mitigate the feelbad potential quite a lot

[grim sluice]

Yeah he doesn’t even have a way to make an aux attack like that and loves barraging so I think he’ll be fine

[finite sapphire]

then it should be totally fine yeah

[grim sluice]

It’s actually that exact strat that makes me scared

Because narry a turn goes by where an enemy isn’t immobilized and prone (and thereby slowed) by the end of it

[finite sapphire]

when it comes to mechanical balance i can't really offer much outside of kinda non-commitally going it's probably fine because it's a very limited system? but maybe other people in here have figured out how to completely break it

[grim sluice]

All I really see is “he has easy access to +3d6 bonus damage that not even an Ultra can mitigate” (since Juggernaut can’t end a Grapple or Prone)

[finite sapphire]

that is true... might be one of those things you'd want to hand out with the disclaimer of, like, hey if this thing is completely busted don't get mad if i take it away lol

[grim sluice]

Good idea

[grim sluice]

Ya know if I really think about it, it is just a Different Lucifer at the end of the day

Plus the player I have it in mind for only has 2 engineering

[hallow jasper]

This is more general gm advice, but if I find that my players are punching above their weight I usually up the weight of their opponents to match

When you have some party members performing better than others, then it gets trickier than simply upping encounter strength. While I’d usually default to finding ways to bring the rest of the group up to par, you can also stack that particular player up against a beefed up npc that’ll reframe their minmaxed overkill into some clutch factor. Give em a dragon to slay

[teal abyss]

Tbh of all those NHPs MARDUK got a significant amount of the testing, and we found that it's mostly fine in terms of balancing in practice

The feelsbad factor above does exist, but players really shouldn't be trying to land a hit with just a single weapon unless they can't miss or it's a hail mary situation

Weirdly the way it's set up it actually plays best with teamwork

If someone else can stack up the conditions, then that frees actions to make sure you hit

[grim sluice]

Thanks for the assurance, I definitely feel a lot safer about potentially deploying a Marduk if my players choose to seek one out.

[grim sluice]

Still a tad concerned about any of the other NHPs seeming kinda underwhelming in comparison

[tacit skiff]

I have a sneaking suspicion from vibes alone nergal can be very good or very mid. Full action for a grunt to just be popped as a quick sounds bad. But if you get a good NPC on your side I can imagine that as a good power boost

Heat clear as a reaction sounds pretty neat

[fading pilot]

I do want to play a Mourning Cloak with an Inanna, but I feel like that's the best possible use case for it.

[lost gate]

Hi yes my gang has a NERGAL (kinda) on their lich and whilst it's not used often it definitely helps when it's a fucking Demolisher

[glacial dagger]

Or its an MBT and your playing Winterscar <.< My players just yeah...reanime the tank, drive it around to the detriment of everything else lol

[rotund patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-tank-gif-24556815

[upper totem]

Heyo! Im 3 sessions deep into Gm lancer and loving it. I stumbled upon this third party supplement from a reddit suggestion, and because one of my players is an NHP spacesuit. I would love to get the book someday, but i cant currently afford 20$. I wanted to ask, if there is any way i can take a look at the NHP player section? Im not entirely interested in other content at the moment.
(edit: all settled)

Either way, are there any general suggestions about handling such a situation with mostly a core book in mind? That player is into anything eldritch, so i believe they know what they want out of it and will rp it superbly, but i would appreciate some advice ^^

[teal abyss]

drop me a DM and when I get a spare moment I'll see what I can do

[upper totem]

I need to know. Is the purple text RA? XD

[teal abyss]

I could not possibly say

[regal hearth]

that's a less schizo quote than that whole conversation about the gun to say the least

[teal abyss]

hey can we not use demeaning language about mental health conditions thanks

[regal hearth]

my apologies

[turbid thistle]

Hi I just wanted to ask is there a ICP file for Legionnaire

[teal abyss]

yes, it's on the itch page under the demo section, as usual

[turbid thistle]

Thank you first time getting third party content

[teal abyss]

no worries, hope you enjoy 🙂

[turbid thistle]

I hope I do too

[stoic glade]

Legionnaire is really good ^^

[fading glacier]

For the "Reflective Code" reaction on the Legionnaire 2 Talent, could you clarify the restriction of "directly gives you a condition"? My reading of it was either it is intended to prevent weirdness of say manipulating an environmental effect to apply a condition such as a terminal on the map triggering an EMP, or it was to prevent AoE and such effects with "when you start your turn in" triggers from applying, even if they are directly produced via a tech action like the Lich Wandering Nightmare.

Also, this supplement is amazing and I have really been enjoying some of the inspirations for my Human/NHP relationship from technophile, like the idea of watching NHP dramas together.

also, what is the duration if the same duration is not applicable? until end of next turn?

[tacit skiff]

When would a duration not be applicable?

[fading glacier]

I genuinely have no idea. But the clause being there implies a possible edge case so i figured I would ask.

my best guess was maybe if it was proximal, like an effect that applies so long as you are in a given area, since the party it reflects onto is likely outside said area.

It's also valid though to just leave it unclarified and expect a case by case ruling as appropriate given these will all be unique edge cases.

[azure cairn]

Well, it might be to stop a situation where an NPC structures a PC, and the roll on the structure table causes a condition?

Or, right, the duration thing

[tacit skiff]

Sorry for late response, but every condition has a duration. If you're shredded by a breachers double shotguns you can use legionnaire to bounce the shred forever back at them. If there's an area of slowed you can bounce back the slowed for the duration of "whilst you're in the area" (unless an aoe of slowed is not classified as directly giving a condition)

But every condition has a duration, even if that duration is forever

[teal abyss]

that wording is more for stuff like Lock On, which doesn't really have a duration as such, it's just a thing that gets applied to you and you now have until it's consumed

in early playtesting there was confusion about "I just consumed that lock on, does the reflected lock on disappear as well?" and other weird edge cases that I wanted to give the GM an easy out to

as for "directly giving you a condition" the condition has to apply as a direct effect of the action taken. So for example, you can reflect the Impaired given by an NPC invade but you can't reflect the Impaired given when rolling a glancing blow on the structure table even though it resulted from an enemy action.

also can't reflect the Slowed applied as a result of being knocked Prone, or the Immobilized you get as a result of being Grappled

[tacit skiff]

Oh, I assumed the grapple immob would work. My interpretation of "directly gives you a condition" would it coming from a single target hostile action

[teal abyss]

being immobilized isn't an inherent result of the grapple action

[tacit skiff]

I just misinterpreted the words

[teal abyss]

but more broadly the rules on conditions are not written in a way that takes this dynamic into account, especially with NPC systems often having bespoke rules text, so "directly" here is intended to give the GM some reasonable discretion

on the plus side there aren't many instances where this actually comes up, 90% of NPC abilities that apply statuses do so in a straightforward way and a significant proportion apply Jammed/Stunned which you can't reflect anyway

[teal abyss]

Just checking my notes and in the CRB the only one that's a little weird is whether you allow Petrify's secondary conditions to count. The Slowed you can obviously reflect, I would personally rule you can't reflect the Immobilized (and the Stunned you can't anyway). The rest of the ones that are difficult to rule are some variation of "if you enter an area/if you become adjacent to a mine, these effects happen" which aren't the direct result of an action

for the record I don't think it would break the game much if you allowed those effects to work, there are like seven of them and most are optionals, but by default I rule they don't count because it makes things simpler to take a minimalist approach

[teal abyss]

I love getting AI generated book club scams

best part of being an author

[teal abyss]

if there were any real book clubs that were genuinely interested in "spotlighting" niche indie TTRPG third party supplements I would 100% love to join them lmao

[azure cairn]

Same, honestly

[grim sluice]

With Marduk, if the attack that triggers off of Marduk inflicts Slowed, Impaired, Immobilized, or Stunned, does the attack gain the bonus damage from Marduk or no?

[teal abyss]

you can order effects as normal

[grim sluice]

So the bonus damage is calculated when damage is rolled, not when the attack hits, gotcha

[teal abyss]

basically, follow the same rules as other "bonus damage on hit" effects

[fading pilot]

Imagine activating Marduk and shooting someone with a Data Dart to Fragsig them.

[grim sluice]

lol. Lmao even

[teal abyss]

I went back and double checked because it was 2am when I answered that and I don't actually think there's any explicit call on how to handle conditional bonus damage on hit; effect ordering is just how I rule it. As always you should be consistent with other similar effects (Atlas Finishing Blow, Mourning Cloak Hunter, etc)

[grim sluice]

Oh yeah I forgot about Atlas and Mourning Cloak- I should just ask Rules Questions about that it’s pretty much the same thing

[rapid wyvern]

This is more of an aesthetic question than a rules one, but with the casket mobility suite, is the casket considered the NHP Pilot’s main body or is it just following behind a subaltern body? Or is it up to the player?

I had a fun design idea for an NHP based on that weird holoprojector-on-spider-legs Palpatine had

(I know nothing about Star Wars but the design is neat)

[tacit skiff]

I think it follows the same rules as controlling a subaltern

So it can stay in your mech whilst your subaltern is out bimbling, it can follow your subaltern or you can have a walking casket with a holo projector

[glacial pulsar]

Oh shit Legionairre was specifically mentioned in that news article, good shit

[teal abyss]

yeah! "a certain kind of writer" is definitely an accurate description

honestly I'm just kind of bowled over that he read the book as research, I wasn't expecting that

shout out to Thomas for that honestly, not every journalist in this space actually reads books

[grim sluice]

Game Journalists rarely play games too so he’s a rare but pleasant exception (jape)

[sly minnow]

Something occured to me, that I wanna double check if I didn't bull my way into a kill:

Legionspace shadow cuts range of ranged attacks made against you, I presume this also applies to overwatch attacks, right?
And if so, does it count against threat or normal range? I presume normal range?

[teal abyss]

"listed range" is a very specific mechanic

if after reducing the attack's listed range you are outside that listed range, the attack misses

threat is only relevant for understanding when you can make the overwatch attack in the first place

[sly minnow]

if I take a vanguard for example, 5 Range, 3 Threat, I assume on an overwatch, it counts against it's listed Range stat, not the Threat stat, right?

[teal abyss]

Worked example:

• You are two spaces away from a Sentinel
• You begin movement, triggering Overwatch because you're within threat of the Sentinel's Combat Shotgun
• Combat Shotgun has a listed range of 5
• You roll for legionspace shadow and get a 4, reducing the listed range to 1
• You are outside the listed range, the attack automatically misses

[sly minnow]

thank you, that is exactly as I assumed (and basically what happened yesterday) but it's really nice to have it confirmed by someone who actually knows the rules better lol

(Big Sal killed a Breacher with that lol)

[grim sluice]

~~I get the idea but the listed example feels poor because a Sentinel could not make a normal Overwatch at range 5. In this specific instance the roll is too low for the sentinel to auto miss regardless of scenario.

If you sub out Sentinel for Breacher (which has range 3 Shotguns), that would likely be an example that fits better since the roll of 1 reduces range from 3 to 2, making the attack miss if you are moving within range 3.

Ofc the Follow Up attack doesn’t auto miss but that’s a different thing.~~

[teal abyss]

what?

this is the example I picked because this is exactly how the ability works, whether the threat is equal to the range is not at all relevant for the ability

[sly minnow]

that example is better than a breacher too, because it makes a numerical distinction between threat and range

[grim sluice]

… I’m stupid, I mixed up the reduced range and Legionspace roll -_-

Apologies

[rapid wyvern]

This is a small thing but I LOVE the Snap-Crush Mining Jaws. I need to make a Dunk mech so badly… what other frames would the jaws be good on other than base Rosemary?

[rapid wyvern]

Wrong dupplement sorry

My bad gang

😭

[fading pilot]

How did this happen twice in two different threads in less than 24 hours?

[rapid wyvern]

Makes me feel a little better I wasn’t the only one

Sorry again 😓

[latent verge]

I have a question that has come up from reading a lot of the lore parts of the Legionnaire book, and a thought for people who have delved into NHP lore.

Do NHP's subalterns have the ability to feel? Like, can (or could) NHPs process the sensation of touch? Sound and sight obviously, and unlikely with smell (or taste), but could an NHP know what it's like to touch something? Is that something that would be abused or explored during a cascade?

[teal abyss]

I imagine haptic sensors existing for subalterns for sure, since they're designed to operate in environments and use tools designed for humans

and humans sometimes use subalterns too for teleoperation purposes

[shy oracle]

Though it does introduce a lot of intentionality to those senses that can also be fun to explore. A baseline human generally has them by default, a subaltern has to have them consciously designed in. It's something I'm gnawing on for my current upcoming character too

[azure cairn]

that intentionality gets really interesting in that a NHP can be hooked up to a bunch of chemical sensors that are way more precise than human sense of taste.... but the experience is so different

[shy oracle]

But also you have plenty of that technology that would have originally and primarily been for human use- so you have an overlap with sensations that humans would emulate for themselves, and then you also have more modded humans who overlap in the other direction and have commonality via deliberate ultrasensory experiences

[grim sluice]

I love the lore bit about NHP produced omnidramas

[teal abyss]

something that I think is very important to include to portray any kind of rounded and realistic culture is artistic output that centres that culture. Particularly and especially where NHPs are concerned, this means media that doesn't centre humans or privilege human modes of access

I would be super interested in exploring that more in the future and I wish I'd had more space or time to develop those threads further

[azure cairn]

Honestly I would play an Rpg of NHP telenovelas

[grim sluice]

Far Field Scenario: landing in a massive campus filming NHP Omnidramas

[azure cairn]

I mean. ... You could have an NHP that was overseeing the creation of a new colony and after the revolution lost contact and nobody cycled it and now it's cascading and obsessed with continuing a TV series that it never got to see the final episode of

I realize I'm kind of making this funny, but you could do some subtle and horrifying things with it, even if the motivation is a bit funny in a vacuum

[grim sluice]

IMO, I feel like throwing Cascading into it makes it less interesting considering what Legionnaire suggests when it comes to how NHP media tends to have multiple paths of information meant to be processed simultaneously and weird narratives

The media is already going to be weird- going off the same logic, you could have that same colony project, instead of losing contact, simply running out of reasons to be relevant or useful during SecComm until they turned into a film studio, and the NHP admin there became the primary director or something

[azure cairn]

A very fair statement. Mostly the cascading bit was to provide the drama of the NHP being a threat to the well-being of others due to being unreasonable. But you could very much play it differently

[grim sluice]

Like you could make the antagonist capitalism

Or artistic burnout

Or an assassin trying to kill one of the actors idk

[dry pilot]

Oooh I like this; trying to see how I can acquire the doc (currently on mobile so it’s a bit harder to search)

[novel ocean]

https://kastark.itch.io/legionnaire

[shy oracle]

Hm. If an NHP pilot enters cascade during their turn, should they take stress immediately in order to finish the turn? As written the decision only pops at start of turn, and I'm not sure if one way or the other is too mean or too forgiving.

[teal abyss]

they can finish the turn (and could even shut down to end the cascade if they have a quick action to spare), but they'll have to spend the stress at the start of the next turn if they are still cascading and want to stay in control

it's much more forgiving than the normal cascade rules

[shy oracle]

Nice nice, thanks. I was erring on the more punishing side at first but then realized that that could double-tap me easily in terms of breakage, aha.

And while I'm here I really love the book, this has been such a fascinating character concept to explore

[teal abyss]

glad you're having fun with it!

[azure cairn]

If a NHP pilot has an NHP copilot onboard, and the pilot cascades, could the copilot wrest control of the mech and shut it (and both NHPs) down?

I suspect the answer is "not technically, but you could Power at a Cost with the cost being The Mech Is Shut Down with no way to power up unless boarded by a friendly pilot"

[dry pilot]

TY! (Sorry been really busy so only saw this now)

[fading pilot]

I do kind of wish Apex Operator worked on the Data Dart.

[teal abyss]

yeah I totally understand that desire

sadly I think that would probably end up making Data Dart a bit too good

at least the synergy does work the other way

[grim sluice]

What does Apex Predator do again?

Oh oops misread

[fading pilot]

If a Hornet uses Lock/Hold Javelins on me, rendering me Immobilized and Shredded for the rest of the scene, can I use Reflective Code to render them either Immobilized or Shredded for the rest of the scene?

[teal abyss]

Yes! Sucks to be that Hornet. Though at my table the effect would also wear off if either of the other two removal conditions were met

[rain lance]

is it alright if an new player wants to play an NHP with legionnaires rules?

[teal abyss]

I don't see why not, so long as you're confident they can remember them alongside other stuff in combat. They're designed to be pretty lightweight and intuitive and I've seen new players use them before

[rain lance]

thanks!

[spare linden]

I've been reading legionnaire and the main thing I'm trying to understand is the mechanical changes to playing an NHP

Nevermind I'm a little silly, I found them and they're super easy

[obtuse coral]

Okay, super odd question.

I have a Veteran Scout with the Puppetmaster template (basically allows it to turn a wreck into an impaired grunt). For the purpose of activations / balancing, how many mechs should I count this as?

Yeah it seems to be the former.

[open bolt]

From my read it's an on-hit effect so you could order it... however you want, really, but i can see it being intended as the former.

[obtuse coral]

The way that reads to me is "Your next attack does +1d6, then checks if the target has conditions, and applies an additional +1d6 for each condition"

[teal abyss]

It depends on the sitrep and the mech you put it on, but a good rule of thumb is that it's around the same budget as the Commander template

it's not quite as simple as adding an extra structure but being able to gain activations is very useful

it's an on-hit effect

[obtuse coral]

So veteran adds .5 (according to a post I found); how many does commander add?

[teal abyss]

around .5 as well? but it's more complicated than that

the number of mechs an NPC counts as is the sort of heuristic you need to get a feel for, it's a very loose rule of thumb

[obtuse coral]

So mathematically it would be 2, realistically probably closer to 2.5/3?

[teal abyss]

I think in your case that sounds right, you've got +1 structure and the grunts, it would depend on optionals. Scouts are pretty fragile and typically the best way to deal with a Puppeteer is to focus it down

[obtuse coral]

I guess the follow up is; how many wrecks should I scatter on the battlefield to start the encounter? I have ten currently, all basic mechs

[teal abyss]

oh yeah that sounds like enough 😄

I would actually add fewer than that

[obtuse coral]

I don't plan on it spamming reanimation matrix, nor do I plan on having them go right after (all reanimations go end of round)

do like half assaults the rest the other stuff I grabbed?

It's a party of 5 LL2 mechs + a useful drone they're protecting

[teal abyss]

that's probably okay. The main thing is whether your players have object-destroying stuff like Siege Ram or Jackhammer, or lots of AoE damage

[obtuse coral]

Weeee have a Monarch

[teal abyss]

destroying wrecks is the other control strategy

[obtuse coral]

I guess it can't raise the "dead" if there's no "dead" to raise

[teal abyss]

precisely

[obtuse coral]

I think i'll budget 5 regular enemies + this scout, 2 grunts. have two of the regulars come in on reinforcement turns.

They'll be fine

(note: I explained to group that I'm doing some encountering budgeting for a specific enemy, and one of the players went "Just throw like three of them at us")

[teal abyss]

lmaoooo

I mean you could

[obtuse coral]

-# (Because 3 of these making wrecks every turn would be fair)

[teal abyss]

if you really want to be maximum evil, give the Scout dataveil

[obtuse coral]

I can't do that to them, I just ran an encounter with one too many Specters

and lets say it got tedious quickly.

[teal abyss]

understandable

[obtuse coral]

THOUGH- System Flayer????

[teal abyss]

oh, I also recommend adding Feign Death to Puppeteers

for the "why won't you die" feeling

[obtuse coral]

Question: does that appear as like a hidden system if they get scanned?

[teal abyss]

no, it'll show up (one of the good things about scanning)

[obtuse coral]

The player with a superheavy melee just saw this with the Pistolero from Liminal Space

It has a reaction called like "Hey, My Hat!" or something

where its hat falls off instead of taking damage as a reaction

[teal abyss]

ah, so a bit like barrel roll?

[obtuse coral]

yeah, except it has to pick up its hat to get the reaction back

so context; they're going to arrive at a rainy field where a large plane crashed years ago, find a bunch of wrecks, go "that's weird". The scout is going to begin a broadcast using radio towers that the players have to fight for control over (5 control points) or it calls reinforcements.

[teal abyss]

sounds fun! let us know how it goes

[plucky brook]

snickers in writer

[teal abyss]

just a heads up gang I am currently fiddling around with the v3 LCP update

I'll release a test version in this thread before pushing it to the itch page, would appreciate some other eyes on it when I do

I've earmarked some time for the update and am hoping to finish it today, but should be done within the week

current changelog, pre-testing:

• lcp_manifest: updated version number (v1.1.0)
• backgrounds: added the new suggested skills in the C/C character builder
• pilot_gear: updated subaltern self destruct so you can take the action. should only work while dismounted
• npc template stuff: consolidated Puppeteer template and systems into the new collection format
  • This is the most likely to break since I'm new to this data format and don't know what I might have broken by accident
  • Hardened Target incorrectly applies an accuracy bonus to systems skill checks (this is a known issue caused by a bonus limitation, all instances of Hardened Target in core have the same problem)
  • No other actual active mode changes since applying effect to animated wrecks is outside the scope of things comp/con currently supports
• systems: All exotic NHPs gain the AI type. Marduk gains a synergy reminder when attacking (similar to Lucifer). Unfortuately other effects aren't yet supported.
  • You still have to ram Bull of Heaven targets manually
  • You still have to clear heat from Seventh Gate manually
  • You still have to handle animated wrecks from NERGAL manually
• talents: Apex Operator retains tech synergy reminder but I don't know if C/C supports this any longer, there's no documented equivalent. Shadowcloaked gains active effect reminders for Umbra and Penumbra, and Nightmare Veil should now prompt an AoE SYS save with associated active effect
• weapons: no support for Data Dart-like effects yet

[teal abyss]

not going to have time to fully test this today but it's been useful for finding some v3 bugs so that's something, hopefully I'll be able to get this up soon

[teal abyss]

hey gang! I have a v2.0.0 LCP for Legionnaire. Can I get some volunteers to test it for me?

I've been through and tested most things I can think of and it should work fine

just looking for confirmation before I push this up to itch

[stoic glade]

Hmm, as a form of Compconism but should Backup Subaltern have a Quick action button?
Like how Black Thumb has one from entering back into the mech

Other than that, I haven't found anything weird at a glance

[teal abyss]

Hmm. Yeah that wouldn't be too hard to add

Done and tested, that'll be in the uploaded version, alongside the Unique tag on the CMS which I somehow missed

[teal abyss]

Additionally, known bug: activating Seventh Gate from the mech systems list will not consume the reaction. Activating it from the actions list will. This one isn't fixable on my end as it's a comp/con issue - the same behaviour exists with things like Fatal Clash from Jager Kunst II.

[teal abyss]

v3 is up!
https://kastark.itch.io/legionnaire/devlog/1497460/compcon-data-updated-to-v3