not bad
#game-balance
quiet basalt
iron lark
Actually might check out that
quiet basalt
im working on seeing if anything else about them was buffed
somber patrol
@quiet basalt there haven't been changes to weapons stats recently
quiet basalt
keep in mind i dont use dual pistols rly at all, so this couldve been from a little while back and i just didnt know
im just working with the info i have @somber patrol
i only noticed in the first place because someone was using uncommon duals on me and they did more dmg than i thought they did, so i went to investigate
somber patrol
okay :0
iron lark
Yeah to be fair if they buff some obscure weapon it will take even us likely awhile to notice.
Though they ought to use proper patch notes.
quiet basalt
and even if they dont release the official data itd be nice if they just said "[insert weapon here] buffed" in patch notes
bold raven
Agreed
iron lark
Exactly.
bold raven
the trello was shut down Though );
iron lark
At least then we could investigate
quiet basalt
but they probably wont do so as to keep the game more casual, and not enforce a 'meta' so to speak. even though the uper echelon of players already have
bold raven
Lmao The meta is Just Get AWP
iron lark
I mean, this games audience is ignorant of the concept of a meta
And yeah lmao
Meta is literally awp
somber patrol
keep in mind audience is 12
quiet basalt
i won a game earlier today with dual pistols
i personally like them, but probably wont swap an ar out for them unless i get the legendary or mythic versions
iron lark
Yeah. When I'm making a build, I first ask myself "what gun in any of the builds I have is most similar to the one I want to insert" and if there are none, it doesn't get put in. You need to make a whole build around it.
ARs I find are primarily used as fairly long ranged weapons. Pistols don't replace that for me.
They take the same slot as an SMG. Medium range fast dps
Assuming your claims about the buff are true
bold raven
make pistols Make you walk A little faster
Only a 25% decrease in speed
Dual Pistols 50%
Burst can BE no decrease cause y not
iron lark
Imo pistols could have the speed penalty removed entirely.
bold raven
Sure
somber patrol
to th ebest of my knowledge pistols do give you a smaller speed penalty
bold raven
Ehh its a little more i think'
iron lark
Don't you just love it when you're about to get the last kill but they steal it from you by running into the gas
That should count as a kill
somber patrol
but it's not really a kill 🤔
iron lark
But clearly you earned it lol
Like if you've done over one hundred and fifty damage in the last ten seconds and they die to gas. You should be credited
Also @quiet basalt i got my hands on some mythic dual pistols and can confirm they're reliably doing 16 damage
The high tiers are viable AR replacements imo
sand fable
dang
iron lark
Their range is also, while limited, respectable.
Lmao. I typed 60. I meant 16
Edited
I'm out of it rn
quiet basalt
yeah ive only been able to get some legendary duals so far but they feel goood
timber moth
When i get RPG or grenades in my hand those shoot it randomly and I die
somber patrol
are you sure you're not clicking and shooting them?
quiet basalt
Lmaoo
somber patrol
16 dpshot with straight accuracy is nice
quiet basalt
ye
pseudo pumice
Cross platform should be like fortnite because PC can see more than mobile and its not fair
Only cross platform when in party
Its so unfiar
Unfair**
iron lark
Uh, pc can't see more than mobile.
pseudo pumice
Yes they can
iron lark
I don't know where you're drawing that from
No? They can't?
Number of tiles is the same. Count them
pseudo pumice
No its not
iron lark
Hhh
Fine. I'll go show you then
Back in a few
Here is a mobile screenshot
Can someone please provide a pc screenshot for this debate
@tawny mortar @quiet basalt @rocky frigate
Maybe one of you could help
pseudo pumice
I get shot at even when people aren't on my screen and its not by accident
iron lark
You know sniper rifles expand your fov right
And people can hear your footsteps
I don't have access to a computer right now. When. I do I'll take a picture.
But footsteps and snipers can be used to detect people who are not visible.
rocky frigate
It may feel like the view for pc is bigger because the screen is larger, but it’s actually the same. If they made it so pc view is wider, pc players would have an advantage which is dumb.
cobalt zephyr
Snipers suck on mobile entirely not even worth picking up on mobile
cobalt zephyr
lol
iron lark
I main mobile and a bolt is one of my most used weapons
Nothing changes about snipers
You're just not nearly as good at mobile, then
The Vss, however, sucks.
The semi auto is usable with practice.
quiet basalt
looks like MG36 isnt affected by dmg drop off, it just has a damage range
i just had it do 14 from 2 tiles away
@iron lark
iron lark
Huh. I thought it was solid 15
quiet basalt
i used to think it did 15, but dmg drop off would reduce it to 14
but its just a range
like the awp
iron lark
AWP has range?
quiet basalt
@iron lark yeah it does
ive had it do 79 point blank on several occasions
the dmg range on both MG36 and AWP seem just odd but nonetheless, they're there
sweet sigil
probably not a range, just a damage thing thats rounded weirdly?
quiet basalt
range sounds much more likely than using a ceil or round function to round the damage
so thats what im sticking with @sweet sigil
because why make the range like a total of 0.5
thats just dumb
iron lark
Though why the devs would take time out of their day to intentionally give the AWP 79 damage sometimes at random instead of 80 is beyond me
iron lark
I've never had the AWP do that damage personally.
quiet basalt
I had it do it a few times last game
and i know for a fact it isnt drop off, ive had it deal 79 from ~3 tiles away
cobalt zephyr
Well snipers in this typically do max damage the further the bullet travels
uncut oyster
OOF
uncut oyster
SMG meta is insane
I believe the SMG does 14 dmg
And the fire rate
But P90 does 10 at close range right
The burst is slow for an SMG and doesn't even burst
I probs don't know wat I'm saying
cobalt zephyr
Don't worry the only thing the burst smg has is better accuracy. Other than that it's the worst one
It's actually substantially slower than the normal one if you compare them
iron lark
Space no, reverse falloff is ONLY on the marksman rifle
lone mirage
Vss is good on mobile
iron lark
Uhhh...have you ever used it?
Like. On mobile specifically.
You cannot change the direction of the bullets after you start firing without moving the entire joystick again for every bullet you want to change direction
So unless your opponent is completely stupid and walking in a straight line directly at or away from you, only one bullet will connect.
It should just be automatic. But it's not.
I'm going to try to make it work somehow today
cobalt creek
.
rigid orchid
@iron lark I play on PC and noticed VSS/Semi/Hunting are all automatic lol
iron lark
Yeah they're automatic on pc but not on mobile.
They're three round burst for vss, two round burst for semi, and semi-auto for hunting.
rigid orchid
Wth
iron lark
Why the hell the devs decided to nerf them to hell on mobile is beyond me
rigid orchid
That's kinda rarted
iron lark
And because you can't just click, you have to redo the entire joystick process for EVERY single burst, they kind of suck
Like. You need to let go, reposition finger, move the joystick again, and let go. Just to fire another burst.
rigid orchid
Yeah VSS needs to be auto on all platforms
iron lark
Also, all the bullets follow the same direction and can't be changed
Because you need to let go to fire.
So.. You don't have your finger on the screen
You can rapidly put it back but this will only affect a few bullets
Half of them will leave at a 0* angle, using standard rotation angles
So straight right
If you're rapidly reusing the joystick
cobalt zephyr
yawn
rocky frigate
lol
cobalt zephyr
@iron lark sorry for the mistake i mostly focus on shotguns
iron lark
You're human. It's understandable
cobalt zephyr
But yeah this smg meta is annoying me
Like why are people just charging into me with a p90 no matter how much health they have.
iron lark
If they just charge you with a P90 they should be easy to kill
cobalt zephyr
I kill them easily I just want to know why like most of the time I just healed and don't have potions
God dang spray and pray meta oof
iron lark
This is why I snipe people
cobalt zephyr
More heals
iron lark
I'll be adding the build AR-SMG-PUMP-2x misc
I've found it to be quite effective if you abuse hiding in bushes and know how to properly use all three of the weapons.
I say misc because sometimes I'll carry cactus or nades instead of two meds. At least one med though
dry umbra
Not being able to use cactus is throwing me off my game :c
iron lark
Eh. Cactus is niche.
Generally better off with other types of throwables other than smoke
quiet basalt
as of today awp is still occasionally doing 79 dmg for me
iron lark
Considering the only time that will matter is if the opponent has exactly either 160 or 159 health, a minor issue imo.
Especially because not a lot of weapons people carry can get you down to an even 160
cobalt zephyr
Who wants to play?
zinc dock
u should be asking that question in #looking-for-group-old not in #game-balance
lone mirage
??
warped viper
@cobalt zephyr #looking-for-group-old
tall pond
No
sleek heath
me
iron lark
Assault shotty slows you down when firing
I just noticed this
The slow is actually fairly significant.
tulip walrus
Wow, I didn’t know that
iron lark
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.
spice crystal
hi
quiet basalt
hi
opaque trench
Hi
uncut oyster
@quiet basalt dmg depends on how ur distance
The farther u r more dmg
Sometimes if ur close more dmg
cobalt zephyr
Depends wut gun ur talking bout too
uncut oyster
Ye
quiet basalt
ive had awp do 79 dmg both point blank and from ~25 tiles away
cobalt zephyr
I has always had it do 80
iron lark
The only gun with reverse damage falloff is the marksman rifle
indigo blaze
!rank
quiet basalt
@iron lark u keep saying marksman rifle, do u mean hunting rifle?
jolly comet
marksman rifle as in the one from crystal clash
spare hearth
@scarlet bone can someone please remove the pistols, just because nobody ever uses them, even if they are mythic?
quiet basalt
I love using deagle for early game, and Dual Pistols are actually quite effective in the late game
spare hearth
just regular pistols i mean
quiet basalt
epic and above pistols, id argue, are pretty good substitutions for other weapons if u cant get a good one
i think they should stay
spare hearth
right, but you only get those mid to late game, when you are almost guaranteed to get a better weapon by then
@quiet basalt
quiet basalt
thx for tagging me btw, not like i was already here
spare hearth
yeah, well no need to be sarcastic
quiet basalt
my point is, despite you claiming nobody uses even mythic pistols, id argue otherwise. The mythic rarity of any pistol is an extremely good weapon, especially if the storm ends up centering on a forest or an area with a lot of buildings.
spare hearth
right, but that only happens %5 of the time, plus i have literally never killed anyone whos best weapon was a pistol
just to vlarify, i am strictly talking regular pistols
not dual pistols or deagles
quiet basalt
just because a subset of the game doesnt cater to your playstyle, doesnt mean it should be removed from the game entirely. All you're doing is coming off as extremely entitled and narrow-minded.
if it even happens 5% of the time, even for you, then pistols should stay
enough said
spare hearth
I see your point, but at the same time, their spawn rate should at least be decreased
also, i don't think that its just my 'playstyle', i do fill games a LOT and i have never seen anyone use pistols
ever
not once
enough said 2.0
xd
quiet basalt
justbecause you havent seen any doesnt mean they arent out there. I myself have seen plenty
and ive won games on several occasions with mythic pistols
spare hearth
true, but you are top 375 solo, meaning you have probably been in enough games to see people using pistols
here, hop in a duo match with me and i will prove to you that pistols are horrible
@quiet basalt
quiet basalt
nty
iron lark
Just because you personally cannot use something well doesn't mean it is terrible.
That's very similar to something called a personal incredulity fallacy
iron lark
Nevermind. It IS a personal incredulity fallacy
quiet basalt
got em
rocky frigate
lol
peak pendant
u need to buff shoties, they used to be good but now they're just bad and nobody uses them
rocky frigate
I use em
lone mirage
Whats shoties
rocky frigate
Shotguns
halcyon silo
lone mirage
I use shotguns they don't need a buff
frigid sierra
plz fix the impuse nades
karmic mirage
no wtf @frigid sierra they dont need a fliping fix
if your salty about people impulsing through walls and killing you then get better
inland tinsel
oof
acoustic cloak
off
oof*
like 90% of people use shoties maybe ur just bad and dont know who and who doesnt use them.
@peak pendant
rocky frigate
@karmic mirage
karmic mirage
😐
sand fable
oof
swift bone
They need to Buff snipers (Bolt-Action) They only do like 60 Dmg Maybe a Epic and Legendary could do 70-80
uncut oyster
@sand fable wdym hunting rifle
sand fable
the one no one uses because it sucks
uncut oyster
A mythic hunting does 58 or something
winter schooner
O
swift bone
Mythic Hunting does like 50
uncut oyster
Omg
winter schooner
Common bolt does 60
sand fable
which i rarely find mythics
winter schooner
I like hunting rifles cuz I can rek noobs who use it
uncut oyster
I actually get kills with hunting rifle
swift bone
@uncut oyster P90 is the best I killed a Vector with it It is OP
sand fable
depends on distance
swift bone
Yes
uncut oyster
P90 not better than vector @swift bone
swift bone
Close Combat
uncut oyster
Vector wins
swift bone
@uncut oyster I know
uncut oyster
Ok
swift bone
@uncut oyster I just like it
swift bone
yep
winter schooner
Well okay then
uncut oyster
🙃
swift bone
Thats a good strategy VSS To first damage the enemy then P90 then if he is close you shotgun him
Almost Guarantee Win
uncut oyster
But u use P90 if he is close
swift bone
Yes
sand fable
lol i use snipers not to shoot but just to scout
swift bone
The shotgun is if he is inside a house
swift bone
But if the enemy has a shotgun or smg you are dead
sand fable
or i just go outside and melee through the wall if they are close enough
winter schooner
Guys this is #game-balance
rigid orchid
They do for everyone if there are a lot
minor abyss
decrease the spread on pump
iron lark
My boy getting destroyed in the dislikes
quiet basalt
xd
iron lark
In all seriousness though after extensive playtesting I do think that the vector needs some form of nerf
I'd say a speed penalty while firing.
It doesn't impact the upside and usage of the gun but makes countering easier.
Also punishes people who use it in the open
quiet basalt
i will usually take a legendary pump or assault over a vector tbh
but thats prob just how i play
iron lark
Eh. I tried that.
Vector just absolutely shreds people faster than I get can with a pump. Unless that player is stupid and walks into all the pump bullets
quiet basalt
when using impulses I find it easier to land two pump shots than land an entire clip of Vector
iron lark
You hardly need to land an entire clip.
Only at long range
Close up they do 12-15 damage
And that's assuming your target is 100/100 that it's even an issue
Normally I find some way to weaken people before directly engaging
quiet basalt
i just like pump more than vector
iron lark
I understand. It definitely feels good to use
And can be quite effective
Though hard to use against smart opponents
Because best pump use, I find, is abusing corners.
Slightly easier to land a pump shot than a bolt shot around corners, and you're less exposed.
In a game of numbers, you want to deal as much damage as possible without exposing yourself
This is the primary use of grenades, rocket launchers, shotguns other than assault, and depending on playstyle bolts.
Because anytime you simply trade shots in the open, you're gambling with how good your opponent is how much damage you'll take.
Unless you have an AWP lol
Then you can terrorize anything that isn't a building and nobody can stop you
NerfAwpPlease
I still think it should have the speed penalty.
solar delta
@iron lark Its not gambling, you have to have better aim and prediction than them along with strafing
iron lark
Yes. Exactly. You are gambling with your opponents skill level
Every opponent, effectively, has a random skill level.
You're not gambling as for who will win. You're gambling with who you're up against @solar delta
And, as a result of who you're up against, you take a certain amount of damage in any given situation
Hence why trading is gambling
solar delta
I see but how is it any different in a buiding
iron lark
Because in a building, you can play around corners.
It's not literally all up to aim
In a building, you can abuse corners to get free shots off
Especially with slow bullet travel time weapons like pumps and RPGS
Essentially the difference is the presence of cover.
solar delta
So whats your overall point here
iron lark
My point is that if you want to maximize your survivability for the number of kills you have, avoid gambling in the open and stick to buildings.
Unless you have an awp
Then go ham
solar delta
Buildings can also be a gamble though
vague bluff
I feel like AWP is fine due to it coming from a supply drop rather than crates so theres only 1 around the map or even a possibility of 2
iron lark
There are more variables you can control. Also a gamble? Yes. Less of one? Yes.
solar delta
Maybe even more of a gamble because you are relying on the situation and what position you have on your opponent
iron lark
Joseph where it comes from doesn't mitigate the fact that it's blatantly overpowered in the right hands
Havok, if you have half a brain you'll set up an advantageous position
iron lark
There are only two entrances to any given building, generally.
Get a good angle on both.
vague bluff
Possibly a good nerf would be bullet speed
iron lark
There isn't a building in the map I can't set up camp in
solar delta
But you said your opponent could be of equal knowledge and skill
iron lark
Yes. I agree.
The variables are just MORE controlled in a building.
Not non-existant
You still gamble when you encounter anyone. It's just a way to help you get situational control
Because again, in the open, it's essentially just trading shots. In a building, you have:
Walls to use RPG AoE on
Choke points for grenades
Cactus becomes deadly.
Corners to abuse with pump, RPG, and bolt
Doors to open and close
And windows to shoot through
That's a far shot from just going pewpew at eachother.
You also need to consider weapon diversity in close quarters. P90 becomes deadly.
solar delta
My style of play is open fights personally
I like strafing I can usually out strafe anyone and take almost no damage
iron lark
It's not bad by any means. It's just weaker to good players.
A good player will hit you a lot even if you strafe. For bad ones it works very well. Just not good ones.
It should work in most cases
solar delta
Yes and the thing is you can back out of a fight easier in the open
iron lark
I'd disagree. There is almost always two exits to a building.
Just leave the one they're not camped at. Then they need to walk around/through it instead of just following you
solar delta
Hey sean you seem like a pretty experienced player do you wanna scim?
1v1?
I have a tourney match today I need to be on my best
iron lark
I am not able to play right now. Just discord. I'm up for it later though.
Try abusing corners in buildings with the right weapons sometimes.
Let them come to you and punish them for it.
It's called defenders advantage and I've been abusing it since alpha
solar delta
Have you joined ZCC?
iron lark
Just mind cactus grenades
tawny mortar
@solar delta ill play with you
iron lark
My schedule is too all over the place to justify tournaments. I work twenty hours a week in addition to school.
Thought about it but didn't need more commitments than I already have
solar delta
@tawny mortar alrighty
iron lark
When the daily says five sniper kills so you grab an AWP and get them all in one match
quiet linden
ok, this is epic
bold raven
xD
Weakening Your Opponent can lower their Chance of Dealing damage even more
When Camping in a building it makes it rather Easy to do so
Eg RPG'S or Grenades
or SimplY shooting them through a window whilst they approach
So building playstyles are clearly Superior
iron lark
Yeah in regards to survivability close quarters gives you a lot to work with
cobalt zephyr
@iron lark Im suprised you arent a Rare Zombs yet
iron lark
Lol thank you.
iron lark
Other than maybe overmancer, the mods don't seem as opinionated as me. Perhaps I've demonstrated that I have an opinion or two that would prevent me being a moderator.
Though I'm unaware.
I know my flaws though
I'm also fairly new to the discord.
A couple of weeks
trail oar
this game needs to stop trying to copy Fortnite
we don’t need a pump smg meta in this game
take out those broken mythic at drop
ar*
rocky frigate
@trail oar Any meta in a game isn’t made by the developers, it’s made by the community. The mythic weapons that are from the supply drops are pretty balanced imo, except for the Sniper, I think the reload time should be increased by one second.
iron lark
Eh. If you doubled awp reload time I'd rather have a high rarity bolt.
rocky frigate
Maybe not a second but the reload needs a nerf
iron lark
Uh. What are you talking about? Awp has zero spread
trim night
i think he was trying to talk about the Vector, or possibly the MG36
cobalt jasper
@tall pond told me I was a dumb transgender. I'm transgender and im very offended and sad
lone wren
wassssuppppp
iron lark
Don't feed the trolls
thin plinth
blance the SMGS
not that i'm complaining
but the DPS is insane if you can actually aim
@trail oar FYI this game had duals before fortnite did so does that mean that fortnite copied off them?
also the gameply is slightly more different
and those who think the portals are rifts they arn't
rocky frigate
@thin plinth right, they aren’t even alike, this is a 2d game lol
trail oar
Ya they aren’t rifts ik that
but ya the mythic vector is so inaccurate
The spread is so bad
smoky basalt
you expect short range weapons to be accurate lol
pliant tide
smoky basalt
???
iron lark
Vector is basically a massively magnified P90
winter schooner
Yup
iron lark
AWP is just better bolt
And MG36 is just worse than some other mythic ARs lol
Minus maybe the mag size
faint sundial
I thought MG36 had slightly more range than other AR's
smoky basalt
even so, the range bonus is negligible
iron lark
Exactly. ARs already shoot well off the screen. So at that point it's hardly a big deal.
smoky basalt
what's the purpose of mg36
iron lark
It was implemented poorly
It was supposed to be slightly better than other ARs
But in practice, legendary and mythic of a few other ARs are better
smoky basalt
i guess mg36 gives a nice rng element to airdrop loot rn lol
iron lark
Lol basically
You either dominate at close range, terrorise long range or... Get an okay AR
iron lark
The new gamemode is literally an exact copy of diep.io
Like word for word in some cases
winter schooner
Oof
cobalt zephyr
Shotguns aren't even in the meta really but the smg thing is true thats fortnite's problem as well oof
wide nimbus
I think the MG is actually decent
Actually thats a lie
Vector and AWP definitely outshine the MG
Doesnt mean the MG sucks. The MG is actually really scary
sharp tendon
who else thinks the new mode sucks
iron lark
Balance is way off
wide nimbus
I like the new mode lol
iron lark
Okay. But I raised several issues with it above that clearly need to be fixed
wide nimbus
True
iron lark
Mainly the improper respawn level mechanics.
cobalt zephyr
Well the new mode has nothing to do with balance since they don't really affect the main game..... hopefully
Please no
wide nimbus
No need to fix the respawn mechanics if you dont die ;)
iron lark
The new mode needs to be balanced in and of itself
Of course it has nothing to do with the main mode. But it still needs class balance. Lol
winter schooner
The devs just blatantly copied Diep.io. Almost everything is the same, except worse.
I may as well just play diep.io
It looks better, feels better, and is better
spice crystal
Devs can at least be more creative.
humble glacier
Yea
I guess
I like it though
I got 3.5K xp from it in one match
I had 170 kils
iron lark
Huh
wide prairie
Hi
cobalt zephyr
So I haven't played a lot of space battles yet, but what's everyone's guns / stats preferences right now?
thorny burrow
Well literally everybody spams Shotgun so..
cobalt zephyr
Personally I like quad split better then shotgun
iron lark
Not shotguns. Literally not shotguns
Quad split is way better
No good player is using a shotgun.
At least not if they've seen the quad split in action
I see good players using quad split and the accurate sniper.
Not really much in between
Flamethrower is absolute trash due to its complete inability to destroy bullets combo with its close range weapon use
Literally better off not upgrading than going to it
thorny burrow
Do you get hired for this
narrow panther
soloolllll
coarse tusk
static basin
in space battle here NEEDS to be spawn protection i have gotton spawn killed 14 times in the past ten minutes not moving not selecting upgrades not shooting but in the first 5 seconds im dead so if that could be fixed it would really be appreciated
scenic violet
^
mortal flare
late mural
Railgun broken af
glad kite
Hell no
iron lark
Spawn protection in space battle needs to be a thing until you shoot, or until fifteen seconds have passed
wide prairie
Pumps are better then taks
iron lark
Yeah because tacs are hot garbage.
winter schooner
true
cobalt zephyr
I don't even see the point of #suggestions anymore
winter schooner
but theres a lot of great suggestion
just do one of those
don't copy another game
cobalt zephyr
Do they even look anymore
winter schooner
i don't know
cobalt zephyr
they took the trello down right?
cobalt zephyr
wtf
somber patrol
no u
cobalt zephyr
oooooof
cobalt zephyr
Well we already stole fortnite's meta
cobalt zephyr
Yeah....
iron lark
While battle Royale isn't original for anyone, the diep thing was straight copy paste
cobalt zephyr
I think when the battle pass came out a lot of things started to go... down hill
Also the p90
winter schooner
@iron lark i know, right
winter schooner
they can still turn it around
cobalt zephyr
Maybe
cobalt zephyr
But they need something really creative
cobalt zephyr
They better not copy fortnites modes though
cobalt zephyr
Because that will make it worse
cobalt zephyr
Eh 50v50 is ok
winter schooner
yeah
winter schooner
bye
somber patrol
soon we will be the ultimate io game
cobalt zephyr
iron lark
Make like agar and absorb the competition
winter schooner
Lol
modest moat
i feel like space battle is reeeaally unbalanced, quad split rifle is way too good compared to other high level weapons
with high bullet penetration you basically can’t die
cobalt zephyr
So, I believe damage stat is split between the bullets a gun fires. (thus you do "less" damage when upgrading to a two shot) I think a good way to balance the quad out would be to do the same to penetration
that way a max pen quad, wouldn't be as much of a shield as it is
modest moat
Good point. but it still doesn’t feel right. ultimate rifle is literally trash, does like 80 damage even with damage halfway to max
80 per shot is basically spitting on them
and considering this is like late game max level it feels really off
cobalt zephyr
...yeah
grave cosmos
k wasnt 100% sure
cobalt zephyr
dual shot to triple split to quad split
iron lark
Coolbot you're not considering that if you reduce the penetration by the number of bullets that will nerf quad into the ground
Since a sniper only has one bullet, the quad shield would become useless by comparison
Snipers could shoot straight through a quad shield with pen
Then we'd have a meta where everyone is sniper.
Instead of nerfing the good classes, increase the viability of the others.
cobalt zephyr
not neccessarily
because if you still max out pen
you still have the advantage over a lot of mid a low enders
iron lark
Yes you have the advantage over noobs. But so does everyone
cobalt zephyr
and if you also put points into RoF
iron lark
Obviously
Then we have the same problem as we do now
It either works as a shield or it doesn't
There isn't halfway
cobalt zephyr
it's about what has to be sacrificed tho
if you want to build a wall like you can now
iron lark
What you are proposing would simply make the sniper the meta
cobalt zephyr
you'd have to put 4x more into pen stats
iron lark
I already max my bullet pen and ROF
It would change nothing. Either you would be able to use the shield with max stats or not.
cobalt zephyr
well then in your case I'd reccomend not maxxing out pen right now as it's not really needed
iron lark
It is needed if you encounter another of your type
Guy with most bullet pen wins in that case
Assuming both have max rof
I don't think nerfing this is the way to go. Buff others to viability.
In my mind allowing snipers to eat through it is stupid. Shorties, however, should be able to
They aren't automatic, and require more skill, and thus should be able to peirce the shield
If snipers could, snipers would have everything
cobalt zephyr
hmmm I think we have opposite views of how the penetration shuold work then
a shotgun pellet is tiny and low velocity compared to a high powered sniper rifle
therefor, I assume the sniper bullet can pierce better
pierce = penetration
iron lark
Yes, but if we make it realistic it will be horribly unbalanced. Obviously a sniper shot shouldn't lose to a single pellet. But many? For sure.
cobalt zephyr
yeah and that's how it works currently
iron lark
If we say hur dur, sniper can pierce anything then we just get an all-sniper meta
cobalt zephyr
not neccessarily
iron lark
How? What would the counter be?
cobalt zephyr
cuase I think your forgetting the key is what stats you put points into
there's a finite amount of points
so by nature
iron lark
Yes.. Your point?
BTW I've never seen a sniper with max bullet pen. Have you tried this?
To make sure it doesn't work?
iron lark
Oh well step one should be to test that. Because you should be aware that sniper bullets DO have higher base penetration
cobalt zephyr
(most of which I spent blasting everything with a quad shot untill I got blindsided by a sniper)
iron lark
The only reason they can't pierce is because most of these players have maxed the pen traits against them, and most snipers will not put any points into bullet pen
Step one is to test to see if a Mac penetration sniper can pierce the shield
I'm thinking a quad burst sniper with max pen probably would
Because sniper bullets are not one for one with others
For penetration
By default they have higher.
A higher base means the multiplier for point investment is also higher
Right now, sniper builds build selfishly as glass cannons to take out noobs. Than are surprised when they can't kill people that they didn't make their build around
I see no issue with this
You want to kill pen builds? Get some pen yourself
You can't just expect to be able to invest a grand total of zero points in countering another class an counter them perfectly.
Like really.
You want a build that counters, make one, don't make your build then complain it doesn't counter.
cobalt zephyr
but because of the high bullet count of the quad, it demands four times the pen then blasting through a single bullet gun
whereas with pen split (like damage split) it should be roughly the same
iron lark
That's incorrect. Again, the base pen of sniper shots is higher
You do not need four times because there is a higher base
cobalt zephyr
ik that but I'm not just talking about snipers
iron lark
Then you also assume that four bullets hit every one of the other players
cobalt zephyr
tbf I should have gone with three
because that's the amount of bursts
but it's the pellet count that makes the tactic a "shield"
the range of it
a sniper rifle could counter more builds then a quad (at base)
but it's obvsly not used for shielding
because it doesn't have the cover range
iron lark
Yes, snipers need to exploit their additional range to get kills. I see no issue with this
Snipers should not win VS a direct combat class in direct combat.
cobalt zephyr
what the quad has is it's cover range and thus a shield
and I think that cover range should be traded in for protection
iron lark
I don't think making one of the only two dominant classes able to counter the other is at all a good idea. Then you just get one dominant class.
cobalt zephyr
if it were a phyiscal shiled, I'm saying "the bigger it is the less sturdy it should be"
iron lark
Either the shield works or it doesn't. If it works, then it is in its current state. If it doesn't, the class is completely dead.
cobalt zephyr
it can work against a lot of classes and not against others...
it would surely work against a shotgun
or low pen builds
but not against a sniper
so it can both work and not work
iron lark
So you want to make snipers be able to counter the only thing that can kill them
cobalt zephyr
and while yeah this would (untll further balancing)
iron lark
Lovely
cobalt zephyr
give snipers the advantage over quad
iron lark
I don't see why you we can't just make another class not trash and give it the advantage over quad
Then snipers aren't ridiculously overpowered
cobalt zephyr
(personaly I think snipers already have the advantage over quad)
iron lark
Then why indirectly buff them more by nerfing quad
cobalt zephyr
because it indirectly buffs everything
iron lark
I honestly thing rockets should be immune to being destroyed by bullets
Yes, but it buffs snipers to the point of being godly, and the rest of the trash is still trash
cobalt zephyr
thats something I mentioned before
tho I'm not sure if it can be made immune to bullets without messing up it's overall pen stats
cobalt zephyr
but the reason quad is the most complained about thing is because it's common, take it from someone that can't aim, quad is common cause it's easy, the skill required is far less then it's maximum effectiveness. snipers, even if more op then the quad in the hands of the right player, won't feel as un-balanced to the average player because it won't be as common
and that's good enough for a temporary solution at least
anyways, gtg for a bit but good talk.
sweet sigil
@iron lark what you think is the best quad build? 😄
iron lark
Depends what you mean by best
Two shine in my mind, the one that can kill newbies very easily and the one that can kill everyone including high level players
The only distinction between the two is that the high level player one maxes bullet pen at the cost of movement speed.
modest moat
i mostly balance everything and it works
easy noob kills and still hav a chance against higher players
i killed someone near 75k while i was 30k today
cobalt zephyr
there needs to be a use for coins on pc i have so much :/
spice crystal
Some people have the feature on pc where they can buy chests, it's a bug rn.
iron lark
By the way, when I'm fighting someone at a corner, I rapidly spin in circles and move slightly . This way they can't quite as quickly tell your movement when you go to peek the corner and have slower reactions.
It's a good tip. So if you see someone with the crimson wings doing the monster mash at a random corner while fighting you, it's probably me.
cobalt zephyr
neat
cobalt zephyr
i dont have moble stupid flip phone
iron lark
Particularly good to abuse with bolt actions
modest moat
i gotta try that haha
iron lark
See still better xp than the new mode
Six minutes, 700 xp is a much better xp/time rate
bold raven
Agreed
grave cosmos
but the devs decided to smoke a blunt the size of a goddamn toblerone bar and said "heeeeeey dude, why dont we make the quad rifle negate incoming damage and literally kill you point blank"
iron lark
The devs just didn't make any of the other classes viable. Quad isn't OP. Everything else other than sniper is just trash
glad kite
@iron lark ok first u say the old map is trash and then u say that the snipers are trash. Wow
Ur so bad
humble glacier
Dont insult other people / their ideas @glad kite
glad kite
Sorry
humble glacier
✅
iron lark
Can you do English read? @glad kite
Read what I said again and tell me how I said snipers are trash
iron lark
Before you go insulting someone, you should make sure you yourself are correct. This is the internet. Do that to the wrong person in real life and you get a few stitches in your lip.
glad kite
I didn’t quite construct the building I wanted to have
iron lark
I raise no issue with misunderstandings. Those are human. Simply refrain from insults in the future.
quiet basalt
lmao, i just had AWP do 79 dmg twice in a row
humble glacier
Aaw
glad kite
Thx for ur understanding @iron lark
humble glacier
REEEEE
glad kite
Plz do accept my apology
humble glacier
I had two of them
iron lark
Accepted. I'm not the type to hold a grudge.
iron lark
You saw your mistake. That's good. Not gonna scream at you for it.
Lol vg
Keep all the meds too
glad kite
Thx bro
humble glacier
Why not join?
glad kite
Ummmmm
iron lark
Why would you spawn your awp for meds lol
Like. Swap literally anything else
Other than shotguns
humble glacier
Yea
iron lark
Those are a pain when you swap
iron lark
Oof
humble glacier
Cz my squad is always nub and thinks that grenades suck
humble glacier
Ah ha
iron lark
And when the no bullets glitch happened I avoided cactus like the plague
Because you instantly died if you used it lol
iron lark
So I still kind of walk by them out of habit
quiet basalt
Cactus Bombs, AWP, Grenades, Minigun and the MG36 have a tendency to deal 1 less damage than supposed to, but since it happens much less often than it dealing full damage, i believe its a bug
humble glacier
Yea
glad kite
Omega Oof
humble glacier
Mhm
iron lark
Double vector is also very very good
The main vector downside is the clip size. Not anymore.
iron lark
Got two vectors
humble glacier
yea
spring vector
Ok so I got some game balance info for the new event mode
spring vector
here is a list of my suggestions
-
Shotgun classes have too much spread for the amount of damage they can do
-
Snipers are a tad bit too high of fire rate to start off with
-
Other then that everything else requires a bit more skill then those two to actually get more powerful....... if anyone disagrees just mention I would love to know why
iron lark
Eh. Sniper rof is fine. Bullets are ow without lots of speed
I don't see an issue currently
Damage buffs apply too much to snipers though
Max damage should be like 1200
humble glacier
Make revolvers do slightly more dmg per shot
That way they will actually be useable
Maybe 2- 4 extra dmg
@spring vector If thats a list of suggestion why is it not in #suggestions xD
Ik
mental copper
spring vector
@humble glacier lol true, also I completely agree with you on the pistols
@mental copper I believe they keep that glitch in because of zombi mode
bold raven
make the BUrst SMG a viable weapon
And Buff Shurikens
4 more Dmg
and stack to 50
It would make them Viable
Also buff MInigun
and like all the Unique weapons
iron lark
Revolver would be OP at 25 damage
tawny mortar
Revolver would be godly if it had accuracy
glad kite
I pick revolvers over shotguns
Anyone else do that?
Bc I can aim with the revolver 70% better than with shotguns. But sometimes I’ll substitute the revolver depending on the color that I have for a better colored assult shotgun
upbeat spoke
Especially the double pump
tough cypress
according to the weapon damage stats there is a legendary revolver that deals 25 damage per shot
wide prairie
Who cares
iron lark
That legendary revolver is only in weapons race
shy lichen
Cool
glad kite
Oof
@iron lark imma cry 😢😢😢😢
No golden revolver 😢😢
Rip in the chat plz
But at least the purple one does 24 damage so that’s good enough
iron lark
No. It's a massive difference
It's called damage breakpoints
With 24 damage, it takes 5 shots to deal 100 damage
With 25, it takes four shots
So while the damage point is one more, the effective damage is a lot higher
This is a principle known as "damage breakpoints"
Because at that point, it breaks the number of shots required.
If you think it's 24 and not 25 because someone liked the number, you'd be overlooking this
humble glacier
Yea
nimble mulch
You could know where he is and avoid him
cobalt zephyr
yeah good players would know where to hunt, and everyone else would know where to hide
iron lark
I'd say top three only above 10k
humble glacier
Yea
iron lark
For example, no top three if top one is only 6k
Because then it's kind of unfair to that player
So top three down to ten thousand.
cobalt zephyr
can i join clan
humble glacier
Oof
cobalt zephyr
I know right
quiet holly
@everyone the respawn from space battle gmd doesnt work
iron lark
It should now
iron lark
Then wym by it doesn't work
There's a myrad of things there
Do you now resoawn? Is something wrong with the respawn?
cobalt zephyr
Sup.
wide prairie
Hi
cobalt zephyr
Sup
spring vector
sigh
humble glacier
?
spring vector
I can't play space battle trying out different builds to challenge myself without getting killed by a Shotgun Spammer, XD
humble glacier
Oof
iron lark
I don't understand why people think it's shotguns.
It's the quad split
Shotguns are trash
Along with every weapon that isn't the quad split or a variant of the sniper
humble glacier
Yea
spring vector
the thing is they are good, but Quad takes no skill whatsoever to use, so it's kinds a cheap thing to do
spring vector
you get what I mean tho
iron lark
If you're a noob who doesn't understand bullet travel time, a good sniper will manage to get a shot in
And you're dead instantly
A good sniper can move in a way that makes it really, really hard for you to keep your shield up
iron lark
Yeah you just need to know how to get around the shield
spring vector
lol I've killed one with max speed and Flamethrower
humble glacier
Mhm
spring vector
Yup dude no joke max out Penetration and the Flamethrower will stop any bullet.... Except for snipers of course
iron lark
I was under the impression it couldn't stop bullets. I'll reevaluate it
spring vector
I mean it might have had something to do with the fact I had max firing speed and max penati
iron lark
And if it can stop quad beams it should be able to stop snipers
Because quad beams can stop snipers
spring vector
I was killed by a sniper when I did the Flamethrower, but it was while I was taking out another player, I was shot from behind