have not tested it myself
#gd2-nullified
slim raptor
Honestly, am I the only one who feels like the difficulty timer shouldnt be active during final stage? Not only is the stage fucking massive, it also kinda kills any chance for a mediocre run to get through it because the boss just keeps getting more HP.
austere anvil
Ok so, i just put mithrix in insta faze 2
Doing 25mil with ballista
ONE SHOT OF IT.
Honestly, am I the only one who feels like the difficulty timer shouldnt be active during final stage? Not only is the stage fucking massive, it also kinda kills any chance for a mediocre run to get through it because the boss just keeps getting more HP.
@slim raptor Tbh, if you have enough, you can just get shaped glass so you kill everything before it touches you
marsh monolith
Anyone else having trouble with Mithrix?
bright palm
I've only ever cheesed the fight, the most legitimate win I've had with acrid but I just sort of camped him out with poison on the last phase
marsh monolith
Well my friend is refusing to play with me now because I always go for shaped glass.
granite meadow
Does anyone know where is the Environmental log at the final location?
real nova
you guys are killing the final boss? i cant even get thru the first stage 
limber cradle
there are MULTIPLE STAGES!?!?!?!
chrome hedge
"phases"
limber cradle
limber cradle
but are there more stages
eternal parrot
Only 2 more. The third one is a super sekret stage that we still don't know how to get to
vocal mason
meanie game
marsh monolith
??
ivory depot
the game is mean and will murder you
bright palm
in real life, in fact!
ivory depot
it hires a hitman
bright palm
one that will specifically knock your door down and then bludgeon you to death with a hammer
bright palm
he wears a T-Shirt that says, "Worms suck"
ivory depot
it has a picture of a worm getting its teeth ripped out
dull ingot
captain is very powerful
spare widget
So the Feedback and Ideas section seems to be more aimed at ideas. Is it really okay to still post legitimate feedback there?
ivory depot
yeah you can post actual feedback
spare widget
Cool~ ๐
ivory depot
see the thing is with captain is he isnt really good without certain items past the first couple stages but he doesnt really sync with items that well
dull ingot
quite the contrary, it's extremely easy to stack bleeds into the hundreds with tri-tips and his high proc chance makes all of those items effective
while the huge damage from m1 will proc bands
easily my favorite character just due to how op their m1 is
ivory depot
every character is insane with bleed, and also m1 cant proc bands. atgs can proc it from m1 tho
dull ingot
it's 980% damage, there's no reason for it not to proc bands
ivory depot
its 120% per pellet... each pellet is seperate besides crit
spare widget
I was surprised, but I understand why Cap's M1 doesn't proc the bands.
It's all smaller damage hitting an enemy, even if you hit them with every shot. A bit disappointing.
ivory depot
eh itd be a bit broken
you always have the shift to proc bands anyways
spare widget
I get that, it's just that I expected the shotgun to work closer to Loader's punch for some reason if you hit every pellet.
dull ingot
got bands as my first items yesterday with command and was proccing them off m1, so I don't know why it wouldn't activate.
8x120 is still a single attack
same with phaseblast for commando
ivory depot
its probably proccing from atg
dull ingot
I didn't have atg yet
ivory depot
phase blast doesnt proc bands either
spare widget
I don't think it's 8x120.
It's
120
120
120
120
120
120
120
120
graceful knot
Pretty sure caps m1 procs things on every pellet when they proc things with like maybe a couple exceptions
ivory depot
double tap (commandos m1) is 2x90 but every bullet is counted different
vocal mason
Slicing winds isn't meta, but it's kinda fun with how it exposes enemies
spare widget
Hmm
Does anyone know if the pellets are randomized, btw? Or do they have a set pattern?
bright palm
the pellets proc individually, I've hit all pellets on an enemy and only procced two bleed
vocal mason
random
ivory depot
the pellets are all individual except when it comes to crit
bright palm
yea, crit works differently
so you instantly gain all of your predatory instincts when you crit an enemy
ivory depot
the power
bright palm
this also means one harvester's scythe heals a shit ton
ivory depot
commando is basically a lot of bullets in a constant stream and captain is a lot of bullets in bursts
bright palm
do we know what the doll nerfs are yet?
ivory depot
the annoucement didnt specify, we need to test.
mild thunder
hey guys, im hearing some people calling the final boss cheap, is he?
strong tiger
last phase is kinda beat, but hes pretty okay otherwise
ivory depot
last phase is more cinematic than anything
strong tiger
it can be total bullshit tho if you have the wrong items
mild thunder
whats the last phase?
ivory depot
yeah i think a good change is you dont have the items but he doesnt either
while i myself havent experienced any one shots or instakills, ive heard there are issues with it
like the whole item steal is a good idea, but him having them apparently leads to instakills
mild thunder
oh he steals items?
strong tiger
yeah
cant imagine what its like if you let it loop once or twice before fighting him
vocal mason
more loop means you can kill him faster
ivory depot
you dont need to cheese him
vocal mason
looping isn't cheese either
ivory depot
yeah its not a cheese, its just... thats not how the fights supposed to work
vocal mason
what do you mean how it's not supposed to work?
ivory depot
hes supposed to yknow
steal your items
not... be dead.
vocal mason
but taking your items slowly is part of his fight lol
ivory depot
its not actually that slow
vocal mason
if you have a ton of items it is slow
ivory depot
yeah, kind of.
vocal mason
so it's in your favor to kill him as quickly as possible, while you have greater power
mild thunder
ok so wait
ivory depot
they said thats that phase is just meant to be an "oh crap" moment where you get stripped of power. like im not saying that its really an exploit, its just probably not quite how they intended the fight to go lel
mild thunder
whats the boss's deal here?
what exactly happens?
ivory depot
but they probably expected some people to do it anyways cause thats how the game often goes
you get so powerful not even the final boss can stop you
vocal mason
you fight him in one phase, he goes away and you fight some enemies. He comes back for another phase with some new attacks. You finish that one, he goes to the center and starts taking your items. Once the taking-items phase is dead, you're done
ivory depot
in the item taking phase, after he takes them all, as you deal damage you get them back
tranquil siren
Does "being unlucky" mean that enemy hits are rerolled against you?
mild thunder
is the meta then to not have items?
ivory depot
hahah
good luck doing phase 1-3
the phase is so easy cause the pattern is so simple
its not intended to be a difficult phase
tranquil siren
survivor with mobility helps a ton on last phase
ivory depot
its meant to feel like a moment of weakness, but as you slowly chip him down you get your items back, growing stronger and stronger, only to tkae him down in a pure show of skill
tranquil siren
artificer is pretty borked against it
mild thunder
but people hate it?
ivory depot
ive heard people have experienced instakills/ones hots
ive never had it happen to myself tho
sharp monolith
it does happen a lot
mild thunder
if he gets like shattering justice and bands?
sharp monolith
the final boss is such a mess it's extremely disappointing
ivory depot
ive never had it happen to me, but apparently its a common problem
vocal mason
I had one shots in his other phases
sharp monolith
it definitely has happened, happened to me first fight
ivory depot
well thats to be expected
sharp monolith
plus he can hit you with a brutal hit then follow up with another unreactable hit that bypasses osp anyways
ivory depot
the first three phases are like that, but the last phase? he attacks slowly and they arent that strong, which makes sense
sharp monolith
first and third phase mithrix are a perfect summation of the largest issues that plague this game
ivory depot
yeah pretty much
mild thunder
final boss bad?
sharp monolith
relatively easy to dodge attacks that sometimes put you in an unwinnable situation that are incredibly punishing to get hit by
it's a terrible fight
vocal mason
he's not terrible
ivory depot
3rd phase is pretty stupid on the flame column spam but other than that id say its pretty solid
sharp monolith
it's a mess of a fight imo
vocal mason
really the major problem is that it can take at least 30 minutes to reach him
ivory depot
basically the two things that need to change is the flame column spam in 3rd phase and the one shots in phase 4
limber cradle
Ok new vodo doll interaction is a max of 3 vodo dolls at a time wich still makes it a very strong combination with the right "on kill" items since you do in fact still have permanent uptime on them
indigo ruin
30 minutes to rush through to final boss is a pretty reasonable time for a roguelike honestly.
mild thunder
didnt someone say the vodo doll is getting nerfed?
sharp monolith
the larger problem is how underpolished the final fight is
and also a literal soft lock right before the fight
ivory depot
it did, they fixed this.. mess
sharp monolith
i am so confused how that slipped by
mild thunder
huh... 16
ivory depot
they fixed it now, but yeah, the update got rushed.
sharp monolith
the update was incredibly rushed for sure
mild thunder
final update good or bad
ivory depot
the final fight is a bit underpolished but the main mechanics and attacks are pretty good besides the two things i said above
sharp monolith
in a vacuum, it's good; but in the context of the game, my opinion is overwhelmingly negative
mild thunder
im chatting while I run up to what I assume is the boss arena
whys the run up so long
ivory depot
youll see
sharp monolith
no the main fight is not very good imo
limber cradle
he doesn't know monkaS
sharp monolith
his attacks are easy to dodge but ridiculously punishing to get hit by
dull ingot
Hey I have a question about rising thunder as merc, isn't it better now with the "exposed" debuff ?
sharp monolith
no it's worse now because of his m1 changes
vocal mason
'tis better
mild thunder
wait, if he takes items, couldnt I spam shaped glass for the final phase
vocal mason
wait wrong skill
mild thunder
im lost help
ivory depot
yes but hte community will hate oyu
vocal mason
I prefer rising thunder anyway, really helpful to get wisps early game
ivory depot
?
sharp monolith
i like rising thunder as well
mild thunder
i think i went the wrong way
dull ingot
will hate me ? why tho ๐ฆ and yes rising thunder is cool
ivory depot
how so, its... a straight run
sharp monolith
but it feels worse versus bosses because of the m1 change
ivory depot
send a ss
ivory depot
ah.
indigo ruin
last phase for final boss is super annoying for me. i actually like the whole fight overall pretty well, and the IDEA of having your items stripped is neat, but every run i do i either get oneshot by his projectiles in the final phase or oneshot him before he takes my items
mild thunder
just had to reset
sharp monolith
nah i think the whole fight is very messy
ivory depot
i dont know where all this one shot stuff in the final phase is coming from, ive never had it happen
maybe its the orbs? but those things are patheticly easy to dodge
sharp monolith
maybe i'm spoiled by better designed boss fights in other games
vocal mason
I've played a lot of Terraria and Borderlands, and they both have some terrible bosses lol
indigo ruin
he has some projectile spam from his hands, i think thats whats gotten me. only fought him 3 times so far though, i could just be unlucky idk
sharp monolith
but the final fight is incredibly punishing to melee characters and is just "easy to dodge attack that you pretty much lose to if you get hit by"
yeah terraria's bosses are pretty bad lmao
ivory depot
the minigun is reallly weak, thats kind of weird tbh
at most to me it deals 15-20 ish dmg
mild thunder
ok now there is another boss
vocal mason
empress of light is good
indigo ruin
what suggestions would you make to improve the fight tai
sharp monolith
my largest complaints with the game aren't micro complaints is the problem
vocal mason
I mean I beat mythrix once and I'll prolly never do it again because it doesn't interest me
sharp monolith
so many of these glaring issues are on a core fundamental level that it's extremely difficult to pinpoint and fix individual issues
ivory depot
ive done it 3 times over, hes pretty fun to fight once you get his pattern down
sharp monolith
his pattern is him teleporting around and eventually does an easy to dodge attack that if you're stuck in a bad spot you get punished brutally for
limber cradle
i beat it on every character i didn't have skins on yet since its faster than obelisk ๐
granted i did use pre patch please forgive me
so please forgive me for that
vocal mason
all the patch did was fix the bug
well it has a limit now, but it's still good regardless
sharp monolith
but tl;dr mithrix 1-3 is a summation of the most glaring issues that have plagued this game since release
and they are at the forefront of my critique now because the "EA" excuse is no longer applicable
ivory depot
did you win or did you just finish the first phase
ivory depot
RUN
mild thunder
ah it appears i must leave
indigo ruin
can you give me an idea of what you mean by "the most glaring issues" @sharp monolith im still not quite sure what you mean by that
vocal mason
you said things, but you never really said what the glaring issues of the game are
sharp monolith
i talked about it before but my largest issues aren't necessarily difficulty per se, but difficulty consistency
limber cradle
play with command then
sharp monolith
it was easy to ignore in the first couple dozen hours of playtime because deaths can be passed off as "yeah i'm not good, i don't know how to play the game yet"
that's not a solution at all and a gross oversimplification of my argument lol
limber cradle
they cant make a game perfect for everyone but artifacts can bring you closer to your "perfect" gamemode
indigo ruin
can you elaborate on your issues with difficulty consistency
sharp monolith
now that i've sunk a fairly significant amount of time into the game and these issues have still not been addressed at all on full release, they are at the forefront of my criticisms
my largest problem is that majority of deaths i've experienced feel unfair
whether or not they are can be inquired but i don't think that's relevant to the issue
the sheer fact that it feels that way is an inherent flaw in my opinion.
mild thunder
easiest game of my life
sharp monolith
if i die and can't analyze and understand why i died and what i did wrong that is extremely frustrating, and it happens consistently in this game
indigo ruin
i think i agree with you about difficulty consistency to a certain extent, like you kinda just cruise until something ends up nuking you out of nowhere?
sharp monolith
exactly.
elder lemurians and brass contraptions are the worst enemies in the game for this exact reason
mild thunder
@indigo ruin Thats the truest thing ive heard
ivory depot
i mean thats kind of what happens hwen you have an infinitely scaling game, and that could be adressed.
i think in general a lot of enemies need damage down and hp up
sharp monolith
an elite variant of either of these can end runs from full health which doesn't leave you thinking "i should have dodged in x way" but rather "oh that just killed me, great"
mild thunder
WTF IS CAP
sharp monolith
and that's why i think mithrix is an exemplar of these greatest flaws
mild thunder
I dont understand
indigo ruin
feels like enemy damage needs to be squished in a little bit, the lowest damage numbers raised and the highest damage numbers lowered a little. always punished for taking damage, so it doesnt feel like an easy cruise through the whole game, but also the scaling never gets to the point where any one enemy can just delete you in an instant so you have time to react and stuff
sharp monolith
risk of rain 2 is a game where you are swarmed by enemy attacks and bullets that are all extremely easy to dodge, but also extremely punishing to be dodged
mild thunder
why does cap have like 10 abilities
ivory depot
yes
versed basin
a lot of this is based on the fact that the game has absolutely no idea what state the player is in, in terms of hp, damage, speed, etc
sharp monolith
yeah I know
versed basin
and for good reason - if it scaled with that, it would feel unsatisfying
id also challenge the conception that theres nothing that can be done vs elder lemurians, brass contraptions, etc
ivory depot
elder lemurians need a slight dmg nerf in general
sharp monolith
Hopoo, to be honest with you, I think one of the core issues is the lack of a fulfilling base moveset
mild thunder
game still good
glacial birch
Elder lemurians are fine
lost condor
I dont think getting nuked by them is as bad as you say
sharp monolith
no I'm not saying there's nothing that can be done
lost condor
especially the lemurians
ivory depot
elite elder lemurians are the bane of my existance
sharp monolith
My problem is rather than there are times where you die to them and there is the immediate reaction of "what was I meant to do there"
lost condor
sniped by an overloading brass contraption can be painful
versed basin
I think a lot of times, the answer is "dont be there at all"
sharp monolith
You're completely right
lost condor
@versed basin did you guys get any reports about the eclipse 2 modifier and the void cells btw?
i didnt see it in the new dev thoughts
sharp monolith
Which is why I specified that even when deaths are your fault, when they feel like they aren't, it's frustrating which is the crux of my issue
versed basin
@lost condor no, i didnt
sharp monolith
and a lack of complexity in the base moveset i think commits to this problem heavily
lost condor
@versed basin the sphere on the void fields stays the same size with the -50% tp size, but the actual zone where it gets charges is shrunk
with no visual indicator
sharp monolith
since boss movesets and enemy movesets could not be designed with a significant amount of complexity in player reactions
glacial birch
Nothing is worse than getting 1 shot by the jellyfish on titanic plains while you frantically try to hide
sharp monolith
a lot of dodging in this game is "move and jump" or a boss attack which demands one specific reaction instead of a variety of reactions barring some specific character exclusive options that are relatively limited
limber cradle
black hole scavenger + void reaver is the real nightmare fuel of this game
sharp monolith
yeah, vagrant's nova is a prime example of this
glacial birch
It's frustrating but the nova gives you plenty of time to react
sharp monolith
that's not what i'm talking about though
versed basin
Yeah, im no longer following - the vagrant nova is perfectly fine in my opinion
safe vapor
vagrant nova can be avoided easily
sharp monolith
i'm not saying it can't be avoided
lost condor
the nova when theres a stone titan covering the opposite angle is horrifying
fickle sand
Does the swarm artifact lower log drop chances?
limber cradle
@fickle sand lowers but still more loot in my understanding
sharp monolith
i'm saying that it demands one specific player response: "run behind cover" and the variation comes down to pretty much just mercenary being able to jump into i-frames
fickle sand
B l e g h
sharp monolith
because it has to be an attack which can be dodged with the base moveset
lost condor
killing the vagrant before it detonates is another respose, since the nova only ever happens at low health
glacial birch
The only thing that can't really be avoided easily is the homing ball that a ||lunar chimera drone|| shoots. It's far too fast imo
sharp monolith
which is why i'm saying the base moveset feels limiting in my opinion
safe vapor
those homing balls are horrifying lol
vocal mason
scav with a black hole is the real shitty feeling
glacial birch
The vagrant homing ball is fine
safe vapor
but i like the horror i guess, its the last stage
sharp monolith
But anyways my main issues with the game are simply that deaths often have the kneejerk reaction of "what was I supposed to do there" which is a frustrating feeling
languid yarrow
Learning the movesets of other enemies is kinda part of it though, not to simplify your argument too much
but the vagrant doesn't do the nova from nowhere
sharp monolith
No you're right, I get what you're saying
Again, there's nothing wrong with the nova
ivory depot
honestly whenever that happens to me i either think "i went too slow" or "i went too fast" but maybe im just an idiot
sharp monolith
It's moreso an example of a really simple boss attack
versed basin
mm, I sorta see what youre saying, its just a feeling thing of "wait that was bullshit" regardless of whether or not it was
because of the speed it happens?
languid yarrow
You're not wrong, cuz I agree that a lot of deaths are like 'well i fucked that up'
sharp monolith
Yeah exactly that's what I'm saying
languid yarrow
it happens like 
sharp monolith
There aren't that many deaths in the game where I'm low on health and finally get finished off by an attack
Usually I'm dying from full or high health
lost condor
I feel like, for me anyway, when that happens it's usually because I put myself in a bad position, unaware of a strong enemy nearby
and it feels like bs sometimes because you get nuked
languid yarrow
I think that's just one of the 'things' that comes from playing a fast-paced game. I feel the same way about some stuff like rocket league
versed basin
definitely a challenging thing to fix, hmm
lost condor
but its ultimately your fault for being unaware/playing too risky
sharp monolith
Yeah the larger problem with that though is that the game actively discourages playing carefully and safely because of difficulty scaling
languid yarrow
excuse me it's 
versed basin
because i do agree that the game is most fun when you're at low hp, not when youre at 0 hp lol
sharp monolith
Totally
indigo ruin
there is a level of oneshot protection right?
sharp monolith
The most fun points I've had are barely scraping by dodging boss attacks
OSP is problematic for a similar but different reason, at least for me
lost condor
OSP is def a difficult thing to balance, I respect the devs for working with it
sharp monolith
Because I think the fact that it exists made it a crutch for the balancing itself
lost condor
I mean just look at healthgating in borderlands 2
versed basin
now that ^ I would also challenge lol
sharp monolith
Since at least, IMO, OSP should not be a necessary mechanic in the first place
versed basin
its 100% necessary for any game of this style, where the game has no idea your health values
sharp monolith
No you're right
glacial birch
The enemies scale with level and time, correct?
unreal vapor
I wonder if some sort of rear cam toggle, or something like that would help negate some of the nukes from behind where you go from full/high health to dead in practically an instant. Just something that makes it easier to constantly be checking around you
sharp monolith
I'm moreso saying the implications of its existence are suspect though
versed basin
time and number of stages youve progressed through, yes
vocal mason
don't know how much a rear cam would help lol
indigo ruin
just move mouse
languid yarrow
A rear cam toggle would be sick, although another button to press is kinda meh lol
sharp monolith
Because in a "perfect game" its not something that needs to exist
lost condor
the fact that its 3rd person is more than enough for being aware of your surroundings
safe vapor
Rear cam new passive item lol
versed basin
there is no "perfect"
languid yarrow
perfect games don't exist
sharp monolith
But obviously, that's wishful thinking which is why I know it needs to exist
glacial birch
if you want a good rear cam, raise your sensitvity
versed basin
if it was a static experience i'd agree with you
ivory depot
with a game of this type it has to exist
versed basin
but its not, its a dynamic one
lost condor
rear view mirror boss item for the solus control unit
sharp monolith
The mechanic itself is benign, to be clear but I think its implications are a difficult subject
languid yarrow
me 2 seconds after raising my sensitivity
indigo ruin
perfect is subjective, i think you have unrealistic expectations of what happens inside a game that scales over time tai
versed basin
there is no value for, lets say the elder lemurian fireball, thats perfect in EVERY run
because sometimes ur gonna have way less defense than other runs
sharp monolith
No dude I'm not saying the game needs to be perfect
versed basin
The point is that the "perfect" value is going to be changing every run depending on your defenses
sharp monolith
Yeah you're totally right
versed basin
If vagrant nova feels good hitting for 80% of your hp, and thats the perfect value
that cant be represented by a flat value
sharp monolith
My problem is that the game leans heavily towards the end of getting one shotted, at least in my experience
ivory depot
balancing these games is so difficult... other rougelikes just have a heart system and everything does 1 or 2 dmg, and its set. the scaling is different, your hp is different, and your items/defense are different every run.
versed basin
Id also challenge to see if as a player you avoid getting defensive items primarily for offensive ones
Items like rose bucklers and armor plating can help a lot more than I think people realize imo
sharp monolith
Which is why I prefaced my problems with OSP as being largely preferential and subjective
I do pick up offensive items more, but I don't squander defensive ones
ivory depot
i get like, one rose buckler later in but healing is mainly better
glacial birch
I find myself stacking teddy bears and topaz brooches
sharp monolith
But I do think the game does encourage risk taking and offensive play which is fine
ivory depot
i get like, a couple teddys, a rose buckler, maybe a topaz? the rest generally goes to healing
languid yarrow
i feel like i never get a sense for how much rose buckler works so I def skip them if they're in terminals
indigo ruin
at a certain point everything grows so strong that it will hurt to get hit by it, and RoR2 has almost always been about dodging attacks rather than straight tanking in my view. there are some items that lend to a tankier playstyle like bustling fungus and the armor upgrades, youre never meant to really meant to take too many hits though in my eyes and its balanced more around dodging
glacial birch
Offence is the best defence in this game. It's easier to obliterate enemies than to tsnk attacks
sharp monolith
Yeah but there's not just "dodging or tanking"
I think that's a pretty heavy oversimplification
lost condor
I think part of it is that its hard to tell how much rose bucker helps compared to, say, brooches or teddy bears
ivory depot
and than you convert that offense into health with healing items to act as your defense
Offence is the best defence in this game. It's easier to obliterate enemies than to tsnk attacks
sharp monolith
Because this is a game where getting hit is inevitable
indigo ruin
okay, what else would you add to the list
vocal mason
hey, does stun grenade create status effect on enemies to proc death mark? When I have chronobauble
lost condor
nope
sharp monolith
Here, I'll demonstrate many of my greatest issues in the game with this screenshot because I think it's a good example of many of these
vocal mason
scrapper it is, thanks
sharp monolith
There are so many things wrong with that screenshot
indigo ruin
not necessarily, you have to play with the environment and items and movement and slaughtering them before they can hurt you, but i would never say that getting hit is inevitable
lost condor
wait does shock from captain proc death mark?
sharp monolith
No, it's completely unrealistic to expect a run where you don't get hit
There are too many variables
limber cradle
what is the definition of "in combat" in this game?
indigo ruin
what do you propose is wrong with the image you posted
lost condor
@limber cradle depends on which item youre talking about
glacial birch
When you're attacking/ being attacked
sharp monolith
There are many things, I'll go through them one by one after 3 different discussions stop happening at the same time
ivory depot
what do you propose is wrong with the image you posted
uh
probably the fact that they are fallign through/off the map
lost condor
red whip counts using abilities as in combat, but not getting hit, while slug is the opposite
indigo ruin
its also unrealistic to demand the game chat stops so we can talk lol
languid yarrow
Not to oversimplify again, but sometimes the runs are just dead
sharp monolith
Nah i'm just saying i'm waiting
fluid harness
bugs happening in an AAA game: I sleep
bugs happening in an indie game: REAL SHIT TIME TO INSULT THE DEVELOPER
sharp monolith
???
limber cradle
it's not a bug it's a feature
sharp monolith
i'm sorry if it came off like i was insulting hopoo while he was participating in the discussion
languid yarrow
I think Tai has been respectful here, let's chill
not to say others haven't been doing that, but this conversation has been civil at least
indigo ruin
the enemies are far away, do they not float back towards the player? that just kind of happens with knockback of certain attacks
sharp monolith
I'm only expressing my gripes with the update and on the larger, the game itself but admittedly many of these are purely preferential critiques
- the enemies have 67 thousand health 12 minutes into the run, which is... yeah that's not great
it's been toned down with elites being nerfed but that would make a 67k then closer to 50k now which i think is still unreasonable
glacial birch
Did you have the shrine of the mountain active?
lost condor
67k 12 minutes has to be mountain shrine, right?
sharp monolith
even with 3 player multiplayer
indigo ruin
you dont get multiple overloading bell boys unless youve triggered several shrines of the mountain
ivory depot
3p mp is probably the cause
glacial birch
Yeah probably
sharp monolith
That's just how ridiculous the health scaling is with horde of many + multiplayer
But horde of many still feels like an instant loss a lot of the time even now
glacial birch
Isn't horde of many just 1/2 health double enemies
sharp monolith
- The enemies are literally out of bounds; out of reach, they flew outside of the map so my only option in that scenario is to wait 5+ minutes for them to float down into reach
lost condor
no thats artifact of swarms
ivory depot
horde of many is when a boss is multiple normal enemies
sharp monolith
^
sharp monolith
I lost an intially benign run to something out of my control
lost condor
like horde of overloading parents, brass contraptions, etc
indigo ruin
i dont think i believe you on there being no mountain shrines honestly, but if there truly were no shrines of the mountain then its a combination of hardest difficulty available + multiplayer which also is easily fixable by just toning down the games difficulty
sharp monolith
I can tell you there weren't any but you don't have to believe me either
indigo ruin
the guys getting sent super far away is annoying for sure, i agree that knockback against flying enemies should be toned down by a bit to prevent stuff like that
languid yarrow
That sucks but it's not necessarily indicative of a total failure of game design. The enemies get affected by physics, and they got affected in a weird way
sharp monolith
You're right
languid yarrow
It doesn't happen every single time the brass contraptions spawn
i do agree that hordes of many are a shite boss though
sharp monolith
My largest problems present in the screenshot are horde of many's health scaling and a lack of boundaries on floating enemies
languid yarrow
feels like a total wall on any run
lost condor
the knockback thing is partly player error, if youre using loader charged punch, ballista etc you should know that flying enemies will get knocked back, and to try and position so they hit terrain
languid yarrow
breaking it down feels really good but it's hard
i actually think it'd be good if enemies teleported back, at least on the x axis, when they get too far out
sharp monolith
Earlier today, I'm not sure if I have a screenshot of it, but the alloy worship unit got stuck on a piece of terrain at the top of siren's call in a spot that was out of bounds for the player, but not the boss
languid yarrow
(dragging enemies to hell as the loader is always good and should not be changed)
sharp monolith
Fortunately, it's an optional boss so we could move on but we were still prevented from beating the boss because of it
lost condor
neither should dunking celestine jellyfish into a wall with thunder gauntlet
maybe tping enemies back should be implemented, atleast off the top
vocal mason
or mercenary dash
sharp monolith
So yeah, my proposed solutions for the big issues in that screenshot to me are pretty simple
vocal mason
or set a border
sharp monolith
Boundaries on floating enemies that either kill or teleport back enemies that are out of bounds, much like the player
and a reduced health scaling on horde of many, or rather the removal of horde of many (however this suggestion is only attuned to my preference)
because even if it were properly balanced, i would still rather fight a boss than fight horde of many since I think that's more interesting
Also overloading bosses in general are a big problem IMO
sharp monolith
half of an enemy's health not sustaining permanent damage is only a problem when that enemy's health is extremely bloated due to being a boss or a part of horde of many
actually overloading worm is irrelevant to this complaint because it has no shields
vocal mason
the worms are fake elementals
lost condor
the shield just encourages you to focus that enemy harder
indigo ruin
shielded enemies are fine and a good addition to the game
rare heart
And they're excluded from ever becoming elites!
lost condor
i dont think theres any issue with that
sharp monolith
I disagree
indigo ruin
exactly, its an extra mechanic that just requires you to focus a specific enemy at a time
sharp monolith
I think overloading elites as bosses are the most punishing to encounter for this very reason
lost condor
i kinda wish worms & overloading worms could be elite, just for the primal fear of seeing "Malachite Overloading Worm" at the top of your screen
rare heart
The shield means if you can't sustain damage, then you immediately focus on cheese. Most shielded enemies, I try to knock them off the edge rather than kill them.
sharp monolith
The fact that you have to fully commit to killing an overloading boss or lose a incredibly significant amount of time is extremely punishing
indigo ruin
i dont think their shield regen is even that good, actually. i dont think enemy shield regen has ever proved an issue in my personal experience
sharp monolith
Part of the game is that, when necessary, you can escape to recover and heal
ivory depot
the issue is that if you dont have enough dmg overloading bosses are crushing
rare heart
Yep! Just knock them off the edge. Or void reaver them.
sharp monolith
Yeah, that's not a reasonable response because it's impossible in many scenarios
lost condor
you still can escape to heal, as long as you do literally any amount of damage to them ever 7 seconds or whatever
indigo ruin
i mean, thats what a boss is there for, to provide a dangerous enemy that you should fear, and that should be focused down before they blast you
lost condor
mercenary is literally the only character not capable of that
rare heart
Indeed. But greater wisps and parents shouldn't be elite anyway, that is a crime against god.
sharp monolith
Then maybe as a mercenary main this complaint is exceptionally poignant for me only.
rare heart
Or brass contraptions.
indigo ruin
ticking any amount of damage against them stops the shield regen, its just a normal boss fight with the extra step of, dont forget to damage him every once in a while
lost condor
ok well that makes sense i guess
sharp monolith
Because I have encountered overloading brass contraptions several times
ivory depot
the issue is that while yes, the damage should be on focus to the boss, you are punished if you say, get knocked away, or off the map, or have to go recover.
sharp monolith
And, as someone who uses rising thunder it forces me to juggle that enemy into the air
I can't simply wait for them to float down, otherwise they gain half their health back
But if I drop the juggle wherever, they do that anyways and I lose a lot of time
indigo ruin
the fact that youre a merc main actually answers a majority of the issues youve brought up today lmao, you should actually just out some of the other classes and see how your complaints hold up on them
sharp monolith
And even if I do successfully juggle them to death, I'm out of the teleporter's radius and lose time for it anyways
indigo ruin
merc is definitely a wholly different playstyle than most of the other characters
sharp monolith
I play and have played all of the character's, don't get it twisted
lost condor
rising thunder also is part of your issue with flying enemies
sharp monolith
You're right, but that doesn't invalidate the criticism
lost condor
i think rising thunder should have little to no knockback on them, it is quite annoying hitting an elite wisp with it
ivory depot
flying enemy knockback needs to get a fix in general.
lost condor
thats why i dont use it, despite the higher damage
sharp monolith
To be clear, my character which yields the least amount of playtime still has been played 26 runs
vocal mason
the knockbock is fun
sharp monolith
Besides the captain who I've yet to unlock
lost condor
who did you play least just out of curiosity
sharp monolith
In addition, I have obliterated every character on monsoon
Huntress, followed closely by engineer at 27 runs
lost condor
i think engi is my lowest, or commando
sharp monolith
I think obliterating every character on monsoon is at least a reasonable hurdle that demonstrates a decent knowledge of the characters and their movesets and functions
lost condor
i think number of runs is a better indicator honestly, which you have
sharp monolith
So while my playtime on mercenary does make certain criticisms more relevant to me, the fact that I still spend and have spent a significant time on all other characters should not be ignored
lost condor
just saying i have like 4 runs on merc and have obliterated
glacial birch
Commando is my least played chatacter. He doesn't have Loader/huntress DPS
lost condor
idk shit about him
sharp monolith
His changes are a mixed bag but on the whole are very good for his kit
dark helm
scales.. down?
lost condor
shorter distance
sharp monolith
Here i'll list them off
vocal mason
who?
lost condor
maybe thats with attack speed
sharp monolith
No that's incorrect
dark helm
o
lost condor
im atleast happy the changes to loaders thunder gauntlet were unintended
sharp monolith
- the third M1 strike has a larger hitbox and inflicts "exposed" which when an enemy is exposed and then attacked, ticks off 1 second on all of merc's cooldowns
- his M1 tethers him to enemies in the air like loader's M1 which makes rising thunder significantly worse
- his shift can be cancelled into his m2 be it rising thunder or whirlwind
- his shift has much more significant startup
- his shift cooldown has been upped from 7->8 seconds which is significant when rolling out with eviscerate
- his shift scales even more with movement speed than it already did because of the sprinting changes, in addition it also scales with sprinting speed
If you have any questions about any of these I can elaborate @dark helm
@lost condor also a lot of my criticisms recently have been mercenary relevant since he's pretty much all i've played since the update, for about 10 hours
lost condor
yeah that makes sense, merc def faces different issues than any other survivor
even loader, whos also melee
mild thunder
do the bands suck now?
sharp monolith
I definitely intend to spend a very significant amount of time on all other survivors before I make my finished critique regarding the game
lost condor
I play loader so i think the new bands are JUICE
sharp monolith
The bands are arguably better now, arguably worse
lost condor
but its different per survivor
dark helm
how is rising thunder worse exactly @sharp monolith
ivory depot
the bands changes are actually a bit... uh... broken
mild thunder
cuz they only activate on a powerful attack
sharp monolith
From a design perspective, they are much better
ivory depot
because now you can trigger them with an atg
idle copper
not necessarily
lost condor
you could before
idle copper
depends on the strength of the attack before the atg
sharp monolith
However from the perspective of having a lot of clovers it can be considered weaker
thin needle
best class to kill mythrix solo?
idle copper
captain
dark helm
2 atg stacks will proc the bands
mild thunder
well when playing someone with bad high damage things
ivory depot
honestly there is no best class to kill mythrix solo with
safe vapor
i only played him a few runs since the update but merc felt to me like they nerfed the hp scaling a little hard
idle copper
huntress also worked for me
ivory depot
there is a worst class
lost condor
ive heard arti is easy since she can hover over all his attacks
thin needle
what is the worst class
mild thunder
Loader?
ivory depot
probably acrid
lost condor
Loader took me like 3 attempts on him
sharp monolith
@dark helm because his M1 tethers/floats him when attacking in the air, using rising thunder sees your gained height being preserved much more significantly, making it harder to hit ground enemies
ivory depot
loader isnt bad if you are careful
mild thunder
@sharp monolith which character
sharp monolith
@safe vapor yeah they nerfed his health and regen all the way down to commando levels, so damage is punishing without healing items
ivory depot
besides you are loader, the god of mobility. and mithrxi is basically easier the more mobility
sharp monolith
what do you mean by "which character"
lost condor
if you REALLY REALLY want to cheese it, you can swing around one of the pillars with her m2 and little disciple then go afk
until the final phase anyway
mild thunder
merc was nerfed too bad imo
sharp monolith
Merc was buffed in a lot of ways too
glacial birch
Everything's all fun and games until the enemies get a dio's best friend
mild thunder
the health regen is sad
sudden aurora
Me and my friend went through the primordial teleporter and now my friend is stuck at the teleporter. Any way to fix this without restarting?
sharp monolith
the shift changes are only relevant to a gamefeel perspective and cannot be considered a "nerf" barring the startup nerf
final cave
are captian's abilities still unusable after today's hotfix?
in the alt zones, that is
sharp monolith
the health and regen changes i think are rectified by his dps buff
lost condor
am i crazy or wasnt there an issue with mercs shift decreasing in distance with either attack of move speed
sharp monolith
not in my experience
maybe a short lived bug that was fixed quickly
oh but on the topic of playtimes, my rex + commando are nearly the same as my merc runs
although most of my commando runs were me only beginning to grasp the game and understanding pacing
rare wren
Does anyone have any videos/resources on writing mods for ror2?
sharp monolith
I can see why people think he was gimped but overall I don't think his nerfs were as significant as people make it out to be
dark helm
merc's new reliance on his m1 coupled with lower health and regeneration feels a bit contradictory
sharp monolith
But he's significantly weaker now, they're right
lost condor
how many hours do you have btw
sharp monolith
Maybe it didn't hit me as hard because I like to think I've developped a pretty significant mastery of his kit
lost condor
sounds like a ton
sharp monolith
Coming onto 250
lost condor
ah yeah im at like 230
sharp monolith
It's not crazy but I think it's enough that my criticisms still hold some weight
lost condor
yeah i agree, its significant enough
some people chilling with like 1000 hours though lmao
sharp monolith
I'm frustrated by this update because many of my complaints which plagued the game since day 1 haven't been addressed at all
jovial dragon
grizzled plume
no lol
sharp monolith
especially regarding OSP and horde of many
glacial birch
ffs I got tesla'd
lost condor
ive literally played mul-t 1 time
grizzled plume
gj tho
lost condor
thats crazy
sharp monolith
Although again, to clarify because I think my words may have been misinterpreted regarding OSP, I have no problems with it as a mechanic
It's purely benign and beneficial to the game and I understand completely why it exists, but my issues lie within the implications of its existence
arctic terrace
bros its 2020 why are people still taking pics of their monitor
sharp monolith
win shift s
lost condor
win shift s is literally a blessing from god himself
sharp monolith
facts
tl;dr my opinions on the update within the context of the game were overwhelmingly negative, but in a vacuum it's a good update
grizzled plume
๐ฆ
sharp monolith
However the scrapper has been the single best addition to the game since release
pastel shore
what do lunar coins do
glacial birch
They're used for lunar pods, newt altars and they can be spent in the bazaar between time
safe vapor
buy blue portals and lunar items bc parker
sharp monolith
It's the only addition that directly addresses the large consistency issue of the game so gracefully
I'm glad this discord seems to be more civil and smartened up though
lost condor
gotta admit my biggest problem with the update is the final level, especially when compared to ues contact light from the first game
sharp monolith
Totally
lost condor
i get the atmosphere they were going for, and its achieved perfectly, but it doesnt complement the gameplay very well at all
sharp monolith
It's reflective of the update, IMO being rushed which is completely fine and understandable
Yeah it's still a letdown nevertheless, at least for me
lost condor
when alls said and done still one of my fav games
sharp monolith
What frustrates me about this update is that to me, ror2 is a great game with a few fundamental and glaring flaws holding it back from being incredible
lost condor
still work to be done tho yeah
sharp monolith
So maybe I'm moreso disappointed with what we could've gotten, rather than what we did get
Last time I was here though this place was awful
lost condor
like the game is more than enjoyable in its current state, it could be left in this state (minus some bugs) and live on as a great game
sharp monolith
People would deflect legitimate criticism of the game with "it's early access" or "get good"
lost condor
but a handful of changes and it could be just amazing
sharp monolith
One guy asked for peoples thoughts on his suggestion then got defensive when people criticized it
not great
dark helm
i fet a bit bamboozled with the logbooks like they said, among a couple of bugs and confusing designs. like: they changed mul-t's rebar to be less painful to use in long instances, but added a dangerously similar mechanic to captain
sharp monolith
someone said that the game wouldn't be difficult if all enemies didn't one shot you
lost condor
that is crazy to me, with the rebar puncher and captain
stone aspen
well the difference between rebar and captain is that captain hits multiple times and so is good with procs
lost condor
i mean in terms of holding the button down
stone aspen
and especially with the broken bleeds this patch. while rebar was just bad at everything
sharp monolith
There are a lot of problems with this update which is encouraging to me, because it means they probably don't intend to leave the game in its current state
lost condor
they said rebar was changed so its less tedious to hold the button for rebar puncher
stone aspen
yeah but i think the rebar change was more so he could equip double rebar and gatling snipe than a QOL improvement
dark helm
you could injure your hand from using rebar in long periods
stone aspen
well they seem to have changed the gatling nails to prevent it on that. only reason i can see why they would swap it to the end
sharp monolith
Or rather it seems like an unintended use of an intended mechanic
dark helm
captain's hold to less spread is definetely a cool idea, but if used in constant use (which a majority of people will probably do) it will become like rebar with the charge-to-shot
sharp monolith
I haven't played captain so I can't speak on this topic yet.
dark helm
i like the idea but it was surprising to see rebar changed and then add this scarily similar idea in the same patch
sharp monolith
I'm hoping that he's not as disappointing as he's been made out to be to me so far, especially as someone who vouched for chef in the polls
stone aspen
hes fun but he pretty much only has one build
all his alts are inferior to double healing beacon
lost condor
i also find it strange that captains shift isnt charge based, but the very similar thermal harpoons on engi is charge based
not a glaring issue but just kinda weird
stone aspen
well, it makes photons stronger on him
lost condor
photons?
stone aspen
photon jetpack i think it is? gives 2 extra uses of utility
stone aspen
right
lost condor
also with brainstalks
stone aspen
im mixing up my ror1 and 2 items
lost condor
its nuts
sharp monolith
i really really wish chef came back :(
lost condor
i think he still could, im pretty confident captain isnt the last last character
stone aspen
chef would have been cool, but i honestly like captain. he reminds me of enforcer in playstyle but a bit different
lost condor
and chef i think was the second most requested? maybe it was sniper idk
sharp monolith
it was close
stone aspen
sniper then chef
but i dont think they will do sniper. mul-t has that job covered now
sharp monolith
chef was my favorite in ror1 along with miner
sonic sonnet
honestly the next major update whenever it arrives I would like to see more abilities added for survivors
sharp monolith
there aren't any more major updates scheduled
sonic sonnet
im saying whenever and if ever
dark helm
im glad it was captain on a lore standpoint, but i think captain's kit could be re-examined
sharp monolith
it's certainly possible that they add chef/sniper as dlc
sonic sonnet
hypothetical
languid yarrow
It's a 'when' not 'if'
stone aspen
no but they plan to continue support so there may be another roadmap coming, and there will definitely be more major updates
languid yarrow
They've confirmed ages ago that they'll keep supporting it past 1.0
They supported 1 past its initial launch really well too
stone aspen
i mean, this isnt even really the 1.0 update
lost condor
i believe there will still be more updates, the way the devs talked before made it pretty clear that it would be more than just bugfixes past 1.0
sharp monolith
you're right
stone aspen
1.0 means a finished game, and they dont even have all the logs in the game yet
sharp monolith
i'm hopeful the balancing may be readjusted by then
sonic sonnet
like 2 more characters and I would be completely satisfied
lost condor
although i also hope for more abilities, loader R and arti shift specifically
sonic sonnet
alternate m1 for acrid would be nice
sharp monolith
I think a larger emphasis on defensive items along with more attacks that hit you more often but are less punishing will help
it will make deaths more reactable
stone aspen
they have to be careful about that, because 1 had the issue that it was too easy to become immortal
sharp monolith
since currently a lot of the time, health bars feel arbitrary
stone aspen
a lot of the item design is a clear move away from that being possible, such as rose buckler instead of tough times
sharp monolith
yeah, of course there's a fine balance to it
Tough times wasn't even the largest problem with that though in ror1
lost condor
i think the main issue there is the insane amount of healing you can get late into a run, any light hits may as well not exist
sharp monolith
the largest problem was infusion in addition to bitter root
stone aspen
there were a lot of ways to become immortal. tough times till you only took 1 damage from everything was one
sharp monolith
but tough times had a steep dropoff after the first 13 i believe
stone aspen
tougher times does, tough times was just flat armor
sharp monolith
No even in ror1
lost condor
max crit + scythes + rejuv rack and you can live through anything that isnt a one shot
on most survivors
sharp monolith
tougher times doesn't have a steep dropoff, it's only logarithmic
lost condor
plus with super massive leech you have the potential to heal even more
i can only imagine perma uptime leech
stone aspen
Damage reduction = Armor/(Armor+100) this is the ror1 armor calculation
sharp monolith
In ror1 to reach damage reduction that rounds to 100% you need 1422 tough times
what's also unfortunate in ror2 is that there are very few ways to become really powerful late game
stone aspen
yes but only 20 to get 73% damage reduction for instance
spare widget
Hearing reports that there is no artifact code on the Moon. Disappointing :c
stone aspen
and you dont need 100% damage reduction to be effectively immortal
sharp monolith
but late game in ror1 even 73% damage reduction, enemies stack so much and do so much damage you will die pretty fast anyways
lost condor
yeah no new artifacts, wasn't expecting any tho
sharp monolith
cause late game ror1 you only really died standing still
stone aspen
not with hp regen
get yourself about 20-30 tough times, about 10 regen items of any kind that works in combat, and afk all you want
throw in some barbed wire and youll kill everything without even playing
sharp monolith
yeah barbed wire stacking was insane
supple widget
rip comedy island 2020-2020
sharp monolith
anyways i hope they fix balancing in the upcoming updates
supple widget
same
sharp monolith
There's too much dying right now and going "what just happened"
stone aspen
i want bleed nerfed. i suggested making tri tip green so it was harder to cap at 7 and people lost their minds in feedback discussion
spare widget
You only need 7 tri tips?
supple widget
you're not the first one to suggest tri tip as green
stone aspen
you need a few more if your coef is low but thats usually not really needed
spare widget
I feel like it should be green, then
lost condor
shatterspleen with crit on top of that is insane
sharp monolith
i think those minor balances though are lower priority compared to stuff like horde of many and OOB enemies that end runs
rare heart
Comedy island is fixed? I can do captain without worrying too hard about getting hopoo feathers?
glacial birch
Tri tip is far too easy to get as well since it's a white item
stone aspen
i dont mind that its strong, its just that with the new printer changes and everything its too easy to get to 7 as a white
spare widget
How were the islands fixed though
lost condor
rip comedy island never forget
sharp monolith
probably a geyser?
lost condor
they removed the respawn point on the island i would guess
stone aspen
i didnt see a geyser when i went earlier today but i didnt go down there just in case
supple widget
its litey in announcements
lost condor
they said that was the issue anyway
stone aspen
the most logical thing to do is make it so you spawn on the main land instead of back on the island if you fall
lost condor
I assume thats what they did
bright palm
are they going to bring back the bounce on loader's thunder gauntlet?
frosty terrace
"Scrap and Lunar Cauldrons have a weird interaction, where it takes more scrap than you have" dude, I mentioned that here a few hours ago. They work FAST
I got a red item with one green scrap
stone aspen
they said that thunder gauntlet was acting differently after the patch so thats probably what they meant
lost condor
@bright palm seems like it
stone aspen
and theyre going to fix it
bright palm
okay, since I miss being able to bounce myself upwards on enemies
it was fun movement
frosty terrace
I was so close to getting to the last stage with engi on monsoon
full gale
Cut off one head and 2 more shall take its place
lost condor
wow look at that
frosty terrace
then some mushroom killed me and didn't even see the dude
lost condor
9 molten perferators
stone aspen
whats the bug? they fall in the tar and 2 spawn?
looks like you only have 4 queens glands but its a bit blurry
vocal idol
"I want 5 of 'em"
full gale
Well it's not really a bug with swarms
If you have 4 glands you get 8 guards
But what IS a bug is getting 9 of them
Idk precisely how to do it and I think you can have even more
stone aspen
oh i didnt know that happened with swarms, neat
full gale
They took down a twisted scavenger all on their own
Posted that in #ror-streams-and-videos
stone aspen
nice
frosty terrace
should I 3d print some crit glasses? I like armor and gasoline too
stone aspen
crit glasses are always good to have, 10% damage increase each up to 10 (technically 9) and interact with other strong items
full gale
Just for 2 I don't think it'd be worth it
IMO
stone aspen
personally in that situation, id print. a single repulsion isnt super good and gasoline is always bad
frosty terrace
gasoline is bad?
stone aspen
it doesnt scale very well. its fun, but in raw power its not good
thorn sequoia
meh 1 gasoline is pretty good at cleanup combined with a wisp
full gale
Never really understood why gasoline and wisp exist separately
stone aspen
well gas is the white version of wisp
thorn sequoia
the same reason there was a mortar as an common item and a homming rocket as uncommon in risk of rain 1
lost condor
gas is worse wisp
thorn sequoia
i kinda miss the mortar
lost condor
ukulele is worse meathook
frosty terrace
also found this cruel choice machine
lost condor
its the way of the world
full gale
Does wisp light enemies on fire
stone aspen
no
but thats largely irrelevant since the fire does fairly low damage
and didnt get the overhaul like bleed did
full gale
Does wisp's explosion do more damage than gas
stone aspen
yes
gas does 150+75 per stack
wisp is 350+280
of course, you can get more gas than wisps, given the rarity difference
full gale
So gas is literally white wisp as you said
But with the added benefit of burn
stone aspen
but i wouldnt recommend it, there are better whites
well the burn isnt an added benefit, its the only benefit. gas does no immediate damage, it only burns
thorn sequoia
flying purple knives of death are the upgrade to wisp
full gale
Honestly it feels like 
vs 
except that most people prefer goat hoof most of the time instead of the green variant
flying purple knives of death are the upgrade to wisp
@thorn sequoia
Or behemoth
well the burn isnt an added benefit, its the only benefit. gas does no immediate damage, it only burns
@stone aspen
Oh right...? Wait what
stone aspen
the only advantage gas has over wisp is if you have death mark, since its another debuf to proc death mark and death mark is really strong. but as people said, you only need 1 gas for that
yep no instant damage, just burn
thorn sequoia
as most items in this game it's pretty value to have at least one
full gale
Oh wow
No explosion
Certain items are so weird man
Like 
vs 
It's a 1000% difference, sure, but capacitor is way more accurate and faster
stone aspen
and recharges faster
full gale
AND THE COOLDOWN IS NONEXISTENT COMPARED TO PREON YEAH
thorn sequoia
you get better value in having both a goat hoof and an energy drink than having 2 of the same since both multiply eachothers
stone aspen
but, on the other hand preon does have the tendrils for crowd control
sonic beacon
has any1 completed eclipse?
stone aspen
havent tried yet
full gale
but, on the other hand preon does have the tendrils for crowd control
@stone aspen
Kinda odd that capacitor doesn't do AOE things
stone aspen
oh also, the preons tendrils do some extra damage when approaching the target so it ends up being a bit more than 1000% difference.
capacitor does have a small aoe
full gale
True but the benefits of the capacitor still outweigh those of the preon for me
thorn sequoia
the preon is pretty easy to miss tho
full gale
^
stone aspen
yeah i do think capacitor is overall better
thorn sequoia
and if you manage to get a battery printer and get the seashell lunar item
full gale
Add a few fuel cells and maybe a gesture and you don't even have to SNEEZE on enemies to kill them
You just need to LOOK at them for a split second
graceful knot
Honestly wish preon didnt have tendrils sometimes so crowbar worked better
thorn sequoia
you can get a capacitor that autofires faster than it takes for it to recharge
which is pretty dope
full gale
Going to the bazaar in a peaceful way will be tough
stone aspen
though to be fair part of the reason capacitor is better is because there are more and better items for crowd control than single target damage. if there was less things like ukelele and wisp and more things like atgs than it might end up being the other way around
thorn sequoia
you might be able to do that with the preon too but i'm pretty sure that would just end up crashing the game
stone aspen
the preons charge time limits how fast it can fire
graceful knot
I've run preon auto fire 0 cooldown the time it takes to charge limits it even at 0 cooldown
full gale
Haha capacitor LITERALLY go BRRRRERRE
graceful knot
I mean you're still firing it constantly but it has to do the charge up animation still
graceful knot
Crowdfunded is stinky tho
stone aspen
it was till it got a 1.0 proc coef. and now bleeds are so broken
now its ridiculous after the first loop. you get so much money anyway you can just leave it on all the time and proc all your stuff forever
full gale
Didn't it already have a 1.0 proc?
stone aspen
no it was like .6 for the longest time. patch before this one changed it
full gale
Man Mul-T's nailgun deserves a 1.0 proc ( อกยฐ อส อกยฐ)
And bump Commando's primary up to 2.0 like Scavengers
Perfectly balanced
stone aspen
it was .4 before it was .6 too
thorn sequoia
mul-t's nailgun isnt close to comparing with his saw at the moment and that's kinda sad
sharp moon
Eclipse 8 beaten! Mithrix phase 4 at this level is pain
stone aspen
nice dude, havent even tried it yet
actually thats insanely impressive, you only have that many items 67 mins in and still won
sharp moon
phase 4 literally took 20+ minutes is why it's so long
on eclipse 7 he does the ball attack twice as often so you can't get close to him ever
stone aspen
lol i see
outer sluice
what does eclipse mean, is that like times through the level loops
stone aspen
no its a new thing this patch, a special game mode that gets harder each time you beat it
its the same as the normal game on monsoon, but with even more difficulty
storm oxide
man, i dont know how to feel about the captain
stone aspen
like eclipse 1 is monsoon, but with half health
sharp moon
I will say eclipse 8's modifier sounds a lot scarier than it is though
outer sluice
damn that insane
full gale
What do all modifiers do?
sharp moon
start each level with half health, teleporter radius halved, frailty artifact on for allies, enemy movement speed+40%, all healing/regen halved, enemy gold drops -20%, enemy cooldowns -50%, permanent damage (only a small % of what you actually get hit for and it resets each stage)
fair carbon
Eclipse 1 you start with 50% health but it regens still
sharp moon
the half healing/regen and the enemy cooldowns were the biggest difficulty increases
stone aspen
that permanent damage sounds like it could be a problem if you try to loop though
cant just heal through damage
sharp moon
it resets after each stage so it's not really "permanent"
sucks for the final boss when getting hit by the hammer takes 10-15% max health off instantly, but otherwise it's manageable
stone aspen
your max hp is lowered by a percent of all damage you take each level
sharp moon
nah, it seems to be calculated per attack and it takes a small % of the damage you actually take off
so like mithrix's hammer can take over half your health but only 10% of your max health is gone
full gale
๐ค
stone aspen
so like say you took 100 damage. youd take the 100 damage like normal, but your max health might get lowered by 10 as well. those probably arent the exact numbers
full gale
Huh
sharp moon
you do lose OSP after like 15% of your max health is gone though
full gale
But it doesn't carry over in each stage?
sharp moon
yeah you're back to full health after each stage
sharp moon
probably not Rex if his self-damage lowers his max
full gale
Why not captain
stone aspen
hes a face tank. blocks some shots with his passive and heals through the rest with his beacon
he has no mobility skill
hearty violet
On Mercenary does the expose debuff increases next hit dmg by 350%(making you have to use uppercut) or does it just pop for 350% base damage?
stone aspen
sorry i dont actually know
hearty violet
M1(130%) hit 16. Then 58 with expose
M2(450%) hit 65. Then 108 with expose
Does that mean anything?
stone aspen
the difference between both results is around 42
so its probably an extra 350% damage regardless of the proc hit
hearty violet
I see, okay cool so I don't have to worry about using the strongest skill on exposed enemies
stone aspen
seems so
finite thunder
loader is so fun
full gale
Wdym worry(
dull ingot
do we know who the trader is in a bazaar between time?
can you kill him?
i've tried
drifting holly
Maybe with blight acrid , 30 purities 10 shaped glasses and artifact of glass
ivory depot
ive one shot him before one sec
trail hollow
i've done it with artificer merc and loader
ivory depot
dull ingot
wow
drifting holly
Oh also managed to unlock purity , would be interesting to see how acrid rolls with purity
trail hollow
rex probably could too
ivory depot
that was preartifacts btw
dull ingot
nice
drifting holly
I can imagine blight will actually have a use with purity acrid right?
analog karma
gotta say, I like this plate item
drifting holly
@analog karma try acrid with like 30 plates
full gale
So it's not useless
analog karma
it's good versus dots
ivory depot
it falls off mid-late game but yeah it rocks earlygame
analog karma
so imps, all blazing elites, solus probs, mini mush
drifting holly
With 30 plates and melee defense I'm pretty sure acrid can just sit in enemy face
hearty forge
captain with crit chance and 20 predatory instincts turns into an AA12 with an autoclicker and its great
drifting holly
Captain with imp organ item 10 glasses and 20 tri tip daggers turns into melt fest
full gale
Melee defense
analog karma
fuck, they stole my strat
full gale
Lmao
trail hollow
how many fuel arrays/gestures would you need for permanent uptime on super massive leech?
drifting holly
@ivory depot correct me if I'm wrong but exspleen bleed from crits is separate from dagger bleed?
analog karma
a lot? Like 13 at least I think
full gale
Yuh
drifting holly
Cuz I feel like I managed to get like 20 something bleed with 100% crit captain shot while having 20 daggers
trail hollow
it bleeds for the same damage (240%)
drifting holly
From single shot
trail hollow
i think it's the same effect
drifting holly
No no like if you hit with crit shot while having lotta daggers can you add 2 bleeds or not?
trail hollow
ohh
drifting holly
Cuz I felt like it was separate
full gale
Yes you can
drifting holly
I mean it's same status effects but stacks faster
trail hollow
yeah it should
drifting holly
Captain with that is nuts lmao
trail hollow
bleed is just on hit and spleen is crits
dull ingot
can't wait for nintendo update
drifting holly
You can get 400 bleed on tanky bosses
trail hollow
so yeah should be applied twice
drifting holly
Captain with enough predatory instincts 100% crit spleen and 20 daggers
ivory depot
spleen is op lel
analog karma
had that combo, 100% crit, nearly 100% tri tip (had 6 and 3 clovers so)
drifting holly
So any item that actually boosts it further is op
ivory depot
did you know tho that splatterspleens explosision is based on a base # + 15% (+15% a stack) of the enemies health?
drifting holly
Yes
ivory depot
sooooo
analog karma
I was getting sometimes 30 bleeds on a hit because of proc chains
drifting holly
Does it mean you can get over 100% of enemy hp? @ivory depot
If it doesn't have upper limit might be able to blow up a wisp and make chain reaction to purge world
drifting holly
Tbh we need some basically flat damage item
ivory depot
just a casual 8 shatterspleens
drifting holly
Currently crit is overall huge damage boost
ivory depot
yeah smth that adds to base dmg? or just more dmg in %
base dmg might be very op if made wrong
trail hollow
focus crystal
drifting holly
Or maybe something that makes base damage matter after stage 2
trail hollow
melee characters can scale infinitely compared to ranged
i mean you can still use focus obviously its just so good on merc
more efficient damage than crit glass
drifting holly
Well yes but imagine having some kind of different path for character outside of proc chain crit
Everything works with proc chain crit
ivory depot
yeah
drifting holly
Maybe not acrid but he is purple sentient sausage
distant night
had a run with Captain where i wanted to use the new attack/movement speed use item, however i was unable to use it, just got the activation sound repeatedly. didnt work with gesture either. i assume this is a known bug?
analog karma
even acrid delivers 20 attacks with an ability that can proc chain chit
ivory depot
gorags opus? yeah theres been reports on it not functioning
trail hollow
had a run with Captain where i wanted to use the new attack/movement speed use item, however i was unable to use it, just got the activation sound repeatedly. didnt work with gesture either. i assume this is a known bug?
@distant night yep