#Alpine Faction

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desert crown
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on lava control they kinda got confused by the ladder up into the vent XD

brave crown
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ahh yeah i see, I need to tweak the autogen for ladders a bit so they it doesn't generate waypoints immediately on the edge of the region

desert crown
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yeah they were kind of spinning on it

brave crown
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yeah that makes sense

brave crown
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much better

20260210_113455_dmlavacontrol5rc3.jpg
desert crown
brave crown
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shoved the updated grid on the bots in the dm pub

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havent tested yet but it should work better at least

glacial storm
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No, that's actually cool. If you want to make bots good, they should know how the strengths and weaknesses of each weapon and use best available appropriate weapon for a particular encounter.

gaunt lotus
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they will probably have individual preferences and skills for each weapon

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so like you could have a bot that really prefers rail but sucks with it

brave crown
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the bots know how to unlock geo secrets now lol, one of them decided he wanted the fusion

20260211_134050_dm02.jpg
desert crown
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did he win pog

brave crown
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killed himself in the process but he got a kill i think lol

desert crown
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attabot

brave crown
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funny thing is im pretty sure he used the fusion intentionally to unlock the hmg secret

desert crown
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big brain

brave crown
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dude was like "fuck getting kills, I want that hmg" and just got a kill accidentally

desert crown
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multiple secrets

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dudes got the easter egg brain

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i respect it

brave crown
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update: one of them also decided he wanted the PR, and another one decided he didn't want to drop off the ledge the normal way and would rather geo through the floor to drop down

20260211_134410_dm02.jpg
desert crown
gaunt lotus
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lmfao

wraith comet
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Haha. Seems like the bots are shaping up though.

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I can't wait to run a botmatch for 20 years unattended on a spare PC connected to a backup power supply until they achieve sentience.

silk tinsel
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they better not act like real people to even talk

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bad audience for new arrivals. ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
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I have a plan for that (but yes the server will be able to disable bots talking if they want to lol)

slow yarrow
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bots talking would be good

brave crown
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they've been running for the past 40 minutes, nice to see their scores are relatively similar lol (they all have the same configured skill values, so that should be the case)

20260211_141820_dm02.jpg
desert crown
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@slow yarrow told you

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he's watching his bots

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not playing in cobra

slow yarrow
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chain something

grand ocean
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Could program some bots that are only interested in distorying props & dacor. Cause thers always that one player ( me ) who just like breaking stuff ( glass, lights, furniture, etc )

gaunt lotus
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mentally ill bots come later

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:p

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also @brave crown as im sure you're aware, even though these are middle of the road bots their aiming stuff is still going to need a lot of work. right now they do sometimes just hit some insane/impossible bullshit because they seem to have full 360 for target acquisition and no like... minimum threshold either

desert crown
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can confirm they are definitely more whack on that regard

brave crown
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that has been improved somewhat since the last ones you played with, but yes absolutely

gaunt lotus
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so don't be surprised if they just randomly delete you right now lol

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they also don't really undersand the macro of the game yet

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like i watched a bot get a 4k with the HMG in under 2 seconds and then switch to the grenade and walk around in circles for 15s

brave crown
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wait... that's not what you're supposed to do? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

desert crown
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Can confirm ive watched goober spin around in circles and throw c4s

brave crown
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i have a handful of small behavioural tweaks I want to make later today, and then I'll put some updated bots on the DM pub

grand ocean
desert crown
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๐Ÿ˜›

grand ocean
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It fun in to do that in halo with the neddler

desert crown
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XD

zinc quiver
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do the bots that you are working on need a client or are you able to load them through the server? tried running client on my VPS in the past, did not work well at all.

& with the existing bot software need to have a extra pc on just to run bots.

Coul you shine some light on how you do this? anyways, epic work you are doing ๐Ÿ™‚

brave crown
# zinc quiver do the bots that you are working on need a client or are you able to load them t...

they do run as a client - the client is launched with the -bot command line switch. However, they are controlled by the server. The bot client will authenticate to the server with the bot shared secret and after that it takes its "orders" from the server as it were. Server decides its personality, name, character, skill level, etc.

So, the only actual configuration that normally will need to be done on the client is running

AlpineFactionLauncher.exe -url x.x.x.x:xxxx -bot

obsidian warren
brave crown
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so satisfying to see the autogen make geomod targets lol

20260211_171805_dm10.jpg
desert crown
brave crown
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added the current iteration of the bots to the ff dm pub

20260211_173638_dm01.jpg
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they certainly like geoing open the secrets in dm01 lol

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havent quite gotten them smart enough to go for the fusion yet but they'll get there

boreal ether
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having tons of fun with these new bots. really good experience

image.png
brave crown
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Awesome!

Yeah, they definitely still need some work, but I'm pretty happy so far

prisma dirge
brave crown
# prisma dirge Can't wait exploring the maps on my TDM Server with bots. Are the bots defined i...

Are the bots defined in the server-configuration or are the defined by some extra configuration on the server?
Currently neither - the serverside control of the bots is the intended design, but it's not implemented yet. I don't know exactly what that config process looks like yet, other than it will be controlled by the server

Is there need to prepare each level on the server?
On the server, no. Waypoint grids are used by the client (the server doesn't even know about them). They do need to be prepared ahead of time, and we're working on a distribution method that makes sense (also unconfirmed yet what exactly this will look like). During gameplay, the waypoint grid is updated as players take routes that weren't accounted for in the waypoint grid file loaded at the start of the map, and at the end of the map, the bot saves the updated copy, so it will learn more and more every time it plays the same map with other players

and are the new options already maybe on the github repository available for testing?
Currently the waypoint generation branch is on github, though I wouldn't suggest you use it (there's no real point). The bot itself is not

brave crown
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Well, his ability to avoid walking off ledges when taking corners certainly needs to be improved... but he does know how to play ctf now ๐Ÿ˜›

gaunt lotus
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reminds me of pyro

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and maybe someone else

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@low citrus

low citrus
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lol

brave crown
gaunt lotus
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would be amazing if he used strafes instead of mouse turning

brave crown
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microfaction has a lot of floorspace lol

20260212_153216_dm-microfaction.jpg
desert crown
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oh jesus fuck

brave crown
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exhibit A shows a map I am absolutely not manually making a grid for lol

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it'd take a month

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autogeneration is great though :p

desert crown
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I mean for maps like micro's

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its better to autogenerate and then let people fill in the blanks

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itl eventually resolve to a happy medium

brave crown
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yeah, the idea is that most maps will be fine with a fully autogenerated grid. There are a handful of very niche things I've found so far where some manual tweaking of an autogenerated grid provides value, but it's very specific

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I mean things where it's really not practical to automatically detect it

desert crown
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understandable

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at that point it just takes someone to say "hey this is borked"

brave crown
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they came so close to getting the fusion secret open lol

20260212_163403_dm01.jpg
desert crown
boreal ether
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Goobers bots are growing up so fast

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most of your bots are getting stuck at spawn

brave crown
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hm? O.o

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hmmm I wonder why that is ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

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thanks for letting me know

boreal ether
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So seems when i new level is loaded the get stuck. ill play for 5 mins and most are still stuck. ill leave the server and come back and they become unstuck and running around

brave crown
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is that still the case now?

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I thought I fixed that about 30 minutes ago

desert crown
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ill hop in

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they seem to be running around currently

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but it is lobby - was it on a custom map ?

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ok thats funny

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you taught them to crouch now they're just crouch walking ๐Ÿ˜‚

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@brave crown

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ok so

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when they die - it seems they refind the grid

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but sometimes they periodically get stuck again

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yeah they defo borked

brave crown
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Oh, I see what's going on

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hang on

desert crown
brave crown
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sec fixing another issue too

brave crown
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@desert crown try them now

desert crown
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im assuming this is just because u didn't waypoint the generators ๐Ÿ˜›

image.png
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no they are still getting stuck

image.png
brave crown
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wtf

desert crown
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its more intermittent than before

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so somethings improved

brave crown
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i see why it's happening just can't see why that is the case

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... oh

desert crown
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i see

brave crown
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nvm I see why

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it's annoying

desert crown
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what is it o-o

brave crown
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ok yeah will fix but will take me a bit

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file access

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there's 1 in now

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that one should work fine

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hang on

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computers are hard

desert crown
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lol

brave crown
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should be fixed now

desert crown
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๐Ÿ˜…

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seems to be a minority situation now

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they are getting a little caught at the jump pad

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but nowhere else

brave crown
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yeah thats totally different

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does need to be fixed though for sure

desert crown
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well and there

image.png
brave crown
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they weren't properly loading the waypoints before

desert crown
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i think they just got stuck on that generator cuz of lack of path node

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idk if u auto'd for this

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ive walked all over it

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hope it helps salute

brave crown
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OH there's a spawn point there lol

desert crown
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yeah

brave crown
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makes sense, I was tyring to figure out why that bot jumped to there lol

desert crown
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yeah

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i think we hadn't jumped to it naturally yet

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so ive walked all over it

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see if it works

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๐Ÿ˜‚

brave crown
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Whoops, I totally forgot to teach the bots how to use ladders

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next time the bots are updated, they will know that lol

obsidian warren
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Its all good, I cant use ladders either

fast crescent
slow yarrow
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Ladders are scary irl they just feel dangerous

obsidian warren
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I'd rather play around on ladders all day irl than 5x on RF

fast crescent
obsidian warren
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In Australia, we call them trampolines

brave crown
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RF ladders are incredible

The bots agree too, now that they know how to use them

brave crown
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still needs some tweaking (especially its routines around finding health/armor when it has the flag, it freezes sometimes) but the bots can effectively play warlords with eachother now

desert crown
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is there a way to lock off edits for bots? so that once theres a path that is structurally sound (in cases for CTF where u don't want them runnin gat walls in the tunnel) it cannot be edited by player pathing

brave crown
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locking off edits isn't a good idea for many reasons, but the bot already in all cases strongly prefers taking routes with waypoints that were loaded from the waypoint grid file - it usually only considers waypoints dropped by human players when there's no better path to where it wants to go

desert crown
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i see

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so theoretically

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it should prioritise the flag route no matter what

brave crown
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Hm?

desert crown
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well if its in CTF does its priority change to focus the flag route and therefore focuses waypoints more aligned with getting to the flag

brave crown
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The bot constantly tracks its goals and decides based on weighting what to do, then does the same for the possible routes to achieve that goal

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You can see in the video that when the goal is to steal the flag, it's finding a good route to the flag

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I have it so when the bot is navigating around, the waypoints on its current route are highlighted

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So you can see the route the bot is planning to go

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That might change before they get there based on the evaluation the bot is constantly doing and what happens to it along the way but ya

desert crown
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no i did note that yah

brave crown
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Like in dm, if it's going for a powerful position and someone shoots at it, it might decide to retaliate and chase that player

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In ctf if it's killing players and it's flag gets stolen it prioritizes killing the flag carrier

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And returning the flag

desert crown
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gotcha

brave crown
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So it knows about all the routes, it just decides which one it wants to take based on that assessment, which incorporates it's personality etc

desert crown
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fair enough

brave crown
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also i left the bots in the server overnight and they seem to be working fine this morning, so seems like I did solve that issue with them not loading waypoints

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๐Ÿฅณ

desert crown
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woohoo!

crude oyster
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Just noticed I seem to be taking a huge performance hit in MP vs SP in DX11 mode. On my map, in SP in DX11 I get 350FPS, however if I switch to MP and stand in the same spot I'm only getting 225fps. The only difference I can think of that could affect performance between SP and MP is items spinning VS static but I don't think that should make a 125fps difference.. In DX9 mode the difference is 95fps vs 90fps. So something funky is happening in DX11. ๐Ÿค”

brave crown
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There's definitely a lot more happening in MP on a static map than SP on the same static map - gameplay logic, networking, etc. Though I am surprised to see such a difference compared to DX9

crude oyster
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NVM, doesn't appear to be dynamic on items in DX11, just looked on another map with more directional lighting and its not changing as the items spin, so I'm out of ideas haha. How do you uncap your fps on a listen server? I want to check if there's a huge change on other maps too or if its unique to this one, but fps is locked at 240 on others so I can't tell. ๐Ÿ˜›

gaunt lotus
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it might be mesh lighting

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but that's just a guess

boreal ether
brave crown
# crude oyster NVM, doesn't appear to be dynamic on items in DX11, just looked on another map w...

I don't think uncapping FPS on a listen server is (realistically) possible - but also listen server performance is basically irrelevant - testing performance on a dedicated server as a client vs. single player would be the valuable test, and you can do that by uncapping the FPS in the dedicated server config

I am somewhat surprised that listen server performance is worse on average on DX11 compared to DX9 than SP performance is - but I'm not surprised for listen server performance to be bad compared to SP/MP client performance in general

boreal ether
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did you have alook at the particle emitter distance activation in mp yet goober ?

brave crown
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i haven't, no

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have been quite preoccupied on bots tbh :p

boreal ether
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i should put it on git hub...

brave crown
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you should yeah

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bots almost know how to play KOTH now

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or - rather, they do know how to play KOTH now, just very poorly, lol

gaunt lotus
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don't say it, don't say it, don't say it, don't say it

brave crown
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๐Ÿ‘€

slow yarrow
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what the people want to know it, can the bots activate the secret button to open the door on the big book on rts mothergoose

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and can they spam flame canister on dm02 these are important cobra features right @desert crown

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the bots also need to auto do RED FACTTION when someone does it

gaunt lotus
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eventually you will be able to enable bot_braindamage which will give it support for playing with large geos, homing bullets, flamethrower, etc

slow yarrow
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with a timeout so cant spam

slow yarrow
brave crown
# slow yarrow what the people want to know it, can the bots activate the secret button to open...

it does support hitting use to activate things, idk how practical it will be there because I can't remember how it works. But the answer is probably

can they spam flame canister
The bots know that the flame can is mostly useless so will use it extremely sparingly

bots also need to auto do RED FACTTION when someone does it
๐Ÿ‘€

also need one way rail wall glass support
Technically they'd already have this since they know how to use the rail lol. But they won't seek out those positions or anything

brave crown
crude oyster
gaunt lotus
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i think i replicated this on dm02

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it was something like 4300fps in sp vs 3800 in mp

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but would need more than 5 minutes to really confirm bc a swing at those framerates can be a bunch of factors

crude oyster
gaunt lotus
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well, the thing is

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when you are running the listen server

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your client and the server are running combined and it's all on one thread (process)

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so anything that taxes one will drag both of them down, in a rough manner of speaking

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when you run the dedicated server on your system, that is using its own thread at any given time

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its a standalone process

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your OS can give that to any core that's free and it will run unimpeded by the client and vice versa

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this is a MASSIVE oversimplification

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but that is theoretically why you will always see a difference in this case

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hypothetically if you ran one client as a listen server and limited its framerate to something like 30fps, and then connected to that from a separate client on the same computer you would probably see the a similar situation because RF uses so little GPU that it would be a similar perf cost

crude oyster
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Ah guess that makes sense.

gaunt lotus
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@crude oyster @prisma monolith @fast crescent @earnest iron @green cobalt @desert crown
@split sleet @slow yarrow @obsidian warren @thorny pumice @nimble sierra @burnt parcel @boreal ether @zinc quiver

I am seeking feedback on a potential PR for Alpine. This feature would give the client the option (with the server's approval) to render colored outlines around players. By default these would be white or red in DM and red or blue in team modes but they would be customizable in terms of color, opacity, and thickness (the latter to a much lesser extent). For reference, they would be functionally identical to player outlines in games like Overwatch and Quake Champions.

I do not see this as being that great of an advantage for visibility or aiming compared to full bright models which are already a client option. But what this would be is a huge benefit to colorblind players in particular - you would not need to mess around with texture swaps or client mods to be able to see people. People could also use some neutral colored skins (like just the normal DM skins) in team modes and only have colored outlines around enemies and teammates to distinguish them. Aesthetically it's maybe a nicer way to get the perks of full bright models without losing the visual fidelity/graphics of non-full bright models as well.

This video is a rough demo of what these would look like in something like ctfwldark. The first half has outlines + full bright models and the second-ish half has full bright off. There's no ETA for this either. Non-pinged folks are welcome to chime in I just didn't want to ping entirely everyone here.

slow yarrow
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i think all of us would like that

gaunt lotus
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Feedback as in: i am indifferent, I want this, I hate this and it should not exist, etc.

desert crown
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For me it wouldn't make a difference, but i can totally see players like Ghost/Romek etc getting alot of value out of this

slow yarrow
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basically i doubt anyone would object to it

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so i would do it

desert crown
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Net positive no reason to not let it through salute

obsidian warren
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A PR for alpine? We already have a PR, what does it stand for here?

nimble sierra
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I think it looks cool, sure go for it

desert crown
gaunt lotus
desert crown
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or pull request

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one of the two

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that one

thorny pumice
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I'm on the fence. As much as I like the idea, I do have a little nag in the bacm of my mind saying that it's not true to the RF experience.

Equally, I don't play RF as much as others, so I don't think my opinion holds much weight.

desert crown
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ok

nimble sierra
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good idea to make colors customizable

desert crown
crude oyster
gaunt lotus
thorny pumice
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Another consideration, is instead of having completely customisable colours (as nice as that is), have 3/4 presets that represent the most common colourblind options and the default Red/Blue.

Again, I'm neither for, nor against the concept, just playing Devil's advocate.

I love the idea of customising the colours, but I don't know.

obsidian warren
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Full bright already breaks that distinction imo
I see no reason not to do something like this in the fullbright spirit. You aren't exactly turning them into bright green blobs like QL has..

gaunt lotus
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green blobs is something you can do already with texture mods and fullbright FWIW

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but it's not a 1-click thing from in-game

obsidian warren
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I do know that Romek has always struggled with the colours even with fullbright, he had to play on red whenever he could

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Unless he wasnt using them, I suppose

gaunt lotus
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and then it doesn't matter what team you're on

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historically red was always kind of an advantage on a lot of maps

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especially with how the screen flashes red when you're shot

obsidian warren
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Yeah and I like that, because when you're switched between teams 10x a night I occasionally lose track of which colour Im supposed to be shooting

desert crown
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god its so nice not having the red flash

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i only need the dmg indicators

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that flash is toxic as fuck ๐Ÿ˜ญ

brave crown
desert crown
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for beatonators concern

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i genuinely think if it was handled with a console command and can be turned off

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people can opt for the OG Vanilla exp Prayge

obsidian warren
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@brave crown Just played the FF DM server. If they're the new bots, they don't seem very aware that somebody is behind them, even when getting shot

slow yarrow
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when i looked the bot was putting down like 5 c4 at once without blowing them up

burnt parcel
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Im a bit on the side with Beatonator. Its just not quite the RF experience, and I still hold that visibility is on the mapper. The accessibility for colorblind is cool, but I also grew up learning how to snipe and be sneaky in this game, and highlighting your snipers is definitely a huge shift for that role

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You can argue fullbright, but that's still a mappers choice, and at the moment I feel like changing that is actually removing that control for the mapper. If we have visibility issues currently, I can tweak lighting and colors. Otherwise, im just stuck with the color outline in all my maps

gaunt lotus
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fullbright is actually a client/server negotiated option right now as well as the mapper's choice

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like, you can tell your client that you always want fullbrights, and if the server allows it they render that way

burnt parcel
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So players who don't have that on have a disadvantage visibility on some maps?

gaunt lotus
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this would likely be a similar thing, although I think it would be good if that supported being a per-map option

gaunt lotus
burnt parcel
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I don't love that either ๐Ÿ˜† but that's my opinion

brave crown
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I probably should qualify my "I want this":

  • I think outlines for your teammates in team gametypes (ideally through walls) is a net positive for information flow in team games
  • I feel less strongly on outlines for enemies, but I still think in a case where players want it and the server allows it, it's a net positive for visibility. If a server wants the "vanilla experience", they disallow it, and no players can use it in their server (same as screenshake and bright skins now)

Of course players should have the ability clientside to turn it off, but I see this sort of thing as a player customization preference and accessibility feature, and from both perspectives, a nice to have

burnt parcel
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Accessibility features that offer buffs end up becoming more of a standard to games. Its true that it is a positive in that direction, but it's also a big shift in overall mechanics if it's the easiest way to spot enemies. Allies I can see this being a huge win, but enemies... ngl, I quit playing games that just tell the opponent where I am if I kill them. Sneaking dies with enemy highlights

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Im mostly against enemy highlights

split sleet
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i think bigger shift could be properly addressing 'sneaking' would be fixing the footsteps in this game . so when u run they are always audible... not only with pistol / jumping on certain textures

crouching would be silent

gaunt lotus
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that's something ive brought up as well

split sleet
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as for player model halo's - i need to think about it for a bit

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if its serverside setting

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then i see no problem

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all respective playergroups can make that call

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personally i dont see it even that big of a diff in forcemodel/comp setting

desert crown
split sleet
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it would be for afacfion black fucking suit parker realm

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please dont bring accessibility feature here.

this word is overutilised

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we need to think about all players

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if it hinders the gameplay

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or bring positive to ALL of them

desert crown
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bro

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accessiblity - net positive

split sleet
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i have no hands please bring autoaim

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net positive ?

desert crown
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you go from ghost being able to see colours better to aimbot? ๐Ÿ˜‚

split sleet
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that was hyperbole; lets not flood this thread with unevesssary offtopic

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๐Ÿ™‚

desert crown
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ok but this kind of accessibility is a net positive.

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๐Ÿ™‚

split sleet
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in your opinion

desert crown
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in every gamer who has ever played games who is colourblind and has no colourblind accessibility features, opinion

split sleet
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are you ? im not

this is why im not speaking on behalf of others . nick asked for individual opinions yes/no

desert crown
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Obviously

split sleet
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lets not complicate it :p

desert crown
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but to deny it being a positive is just ... idk, strange

brave crown
# split sleet if its serverside setting

to be clear, if this feature is implemented in any way, it would absolutely always be subject to a serverside allow/deny

clients also would have one (or more) enable/disable settings, but it would always be disabled for clients (regardless of their individual setting) if the server hard forces it off

brave crown
brave crown
obsidian warren
brave crown
split sleet
# desert crown but to deny it being a positive is just ... idk, strange

in most modern fps games colorblind pallette settings are a thing.

but brightskins/ halos are only allowed in some. usually fast paced arenashooter games like quake.

In more tactical games ranging from EFTs/armas to CS - this would be big no-no.

Red Faction pace and gameplay wise lies closer to arena shooterd obviouslu but doesnt have exact same metrics .

there are headshots and shit, slow movement, r_lightmaps and brightskins were brought and 'legalised' recently-ish

this is why its good that halo's are getting same treatment rn

desert crown
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if u can okay them you can okay an outline

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JMO

split sleet
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Vel has made good points too tho

brave crown
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I definitely don't think outlines (talking specifically about enemies here) are near as cut and dry as red flash removal from the POV of accessibility, or as bright skins from the POV of being "good" from a competitive perspective

split sleet
#

is intensity and width of halo customisable ?

brave crown
#

Tbh, in some way brightskins are an accessibility feature for mappers lol

They mean a mapper no longer has to choose between environmental ambience using meshes and shadows as they want, and players being able to see other players ๐Ÿ˜› They shift that decision to the player themselves (and the server host)

brave crown
green cobalt
#

will bots be ladder flying soon? more importantly, will cheeseborgor bot be back better than ever?

brave crown
#

i hadn't planned on making an actual cheeseburger mode since these ones actually play the game ๐Ÿ˜› but having such a mode available after the fact is trivial so if it's desired I can do it

green cobalt
#

oooh its desired! ๐Ÿ” pixelar @crude oyster can you make some cheeseburger gibs? all the ingridients pleaz ! dont go light on the ketchup

brave crown
#

Tbh I really want someone to make a clientside gibs mod that emulates TF2's silly gibs lol

#

I think this is a mod, but the stock ones are basically like this

198024.png
crude oyster
crude oyster
brave crown
#

I barely have enough time to do all the stuff I already have on my plate ๐Ÿ˜› I would love to but I know myself well enough to know I won't be able to find time ๐Ÿ™

crude oyster
gaunt lotus
fast crescent
#

@gaunt lotus You can mark me down for "I want this" (not so much for me but for others that play RF and want it) ๐Ÿ˜Ž After watching your video and reading what others have said, it seems like an option with all pros and no cons, especially considering the way it would be implemented - "This feature would give the client the option (with the server's approval)"

brave crown
#

good read, the only minor points I'd make in response:

Or if you were using voice chat, you could just make calls for this
Agreed entirely on this point, however given that voice comms happen virtually never these days in competitive play, having that information available just seems like it improves the gameplay. It does remove an element of skill from the equation without doubt, but I think the net +fun and +approachability makes it worth it

It may make the game easier for newer players though, so maybe the compromise is worth it considering how small the playerbase is
I agree here as well, and I think it does make it worth it. Again, should be a server option - maybe even break out enemy outlines and team xray outlines into separate server-controlled options - but IMO at least it just makes the experience more enjoyable and approachable, and both of those I view as significantly more important than skill intensiveness (within reason of course)

spectator mode by default though
This one I think is a straight no brainer, it's just better. And if a spectator doesn't want it, they can turn it off

fast crescent
#

@gaunt lotus just read your post on github and I agree with this 100%, especially for CTF match servers, "Being able to see your teammates' outlines through walls in-game would further erode that aspect of the game and I think is pretty bad idea because of that. It may make the game easier for newer players though, so maybe the compromise is worth it considering how small the playerbase is, but it's not something I'm terribly comfortable with. The labels are already a decent compromise there."

#

@brave crown What are your thoughts on x-ray outlines for the CTF match server?

obsidian warren
#

Oh we're talking about seeing people through walls? I didn't get that from the original video.. That, I like less.

burnt parcel
# desert crown accessiblity - net positive

I disagree sometimes. Most of the time I would say its a positive, but if we also dont look at how that balance affects the overall gameplay, they no longer become accessibility addons, they become pillars of gameplay that offer advantage

brave crown
brave crown
fast crescent
burnt parcel
#

For example, BF6 has features for colorblind and visibility issues with a light halo around character models. Now if I dont have that feature on at all, I cant see people lying down in the dark. If I turn it on, I can see everyone. Its off by default, leaving only those that know of the setting to activate it for an instant gameplay advantage. Net negative for new players coming in, and not having that advantage

gaunt lotus
burnt parcel
#

I love the idea of x-ray teammates though

#

it solves a lot of problems with coordination in multiplayer

gaunt lotus
#

I talked about this in the gist, but x-ray teammates is almost certainly a much bigger gameplay change than enemies for team games, at least

obsidian warren
#

Which we basically do now anyway with the names, though not what condition theyre in.. crouching/strafing is different to running, for decisions.. Im on the fence but probably more no

burnt parcel
#

Could these features be rolled out temporarily to get feedback on how it affects users outside of hypotheticals?

gaunt lotus
gaunt lotus
#

and i know that this is kind of a dorky thing to say becuase in most cases we (as in FF) kind of are the servers, but like, if people really don't like them we'd turn them off

burnt parcel
#

true, but our server is enough to try it out with and get a sample from

gaunt lotus
#

to avoid the BF6 situation, I think we'd have them on by default client-side in alpine (with some vanilla colors/minimal defaults), and easily turned off from the menu. outlines would be simultaneously a bigger visibility benefit than the fullbright skins are right now, while also not changing the "stock" visuals quite as dramatically

#

the demo video from earlier is just the result of me messing around a bit so these are nowhere near alpha or beta quality right now for testing purposes, and no ETA. this is all exploratory to see if it's even worth it. it's the most gameplay-affecting visual change alpine would have introduced, so we need the vibes

brave crown
burnt parcel
#

End of the day, Im sure if anything that we pushed out didnt have good feedback from it, the feature could always be rolled back.

brave crown
#

continuing to build out the waypoint editor

The idea is that this will be used to tweak waypoint layouts as needed

brave crown
#

getting better, they now very rarely get stuck on actual map geometry. Still get stuck sometimes after geo craters, but that's very difficult to fully eliminate... the more important thing there is that they realize when they're stuck and reroute

thorny pumice
#

Ok, so a thought about the outlines... that came to Me overnight, will they be visible at all distances? I feel one option would be to have it only apply within a specific distance? I think I'm leaning more against if I'm honest, despite it being nice.

Equally as I said, I don't play as much as you all.

gaunt lotus
#

that should be possible yeah, similar to how apex recently implemented them

#

it would take some work to figure out what range makes the most sense

#

but a dowsing rod for that might just be the rail scanner's distance ~30 meters

#

this is a little pet project for myself so I'll explore that if i can get the rest of the reqs working

brave crown
#

Bots should be in a good place now. If anyone wants to try them out in the DM pub overnight do feel free ๐Ÿ™‚

glacial storm
brave crown
#

that's a good idea as a last resort, if they have explosives anyway

#

currently the bots don't have any knowledge of the splash damage radius for explosives so they have no issue rocketing the wall right next to them ๐Ÿ˜› but once they do know that (which they will), that's a good point

brave crown
#

Oh yeah, the bots have a very low chance to send a taunt when they kill you now. And over the past few hours I've seen a few people get into taunt battles with them lolpup

gaunt lotus
#

they are a huge upgrade i'd say

#

they still move like noobs but they can at least play the maps

grand ocean
#

I wonder how the bots would handle my 4v4 3d chess map (star trek chess)

boreal ether
brave crown
wraith comet
wraith comet
brave crown
#

none currently, working on them

#

the ff dm server shortly

wraith comet
#

Oh neat, okay. I'll be around since my internet is working okay.

#

If you want to run some hands, let me know.

#

(I love you Goober.)

#

@jovial mulch Want to run hands in the FF DM pub?

jovial mulch
#

Bet, after I make lunch

wraith comet
#

I just had a very funny exchange with another player. I hope Goober reads the chat logs later.

#

Someone named Ayla keeps joining with two clients and getting kicked. I have no clue why.

brave crown
#

thats my test bot

#

he's crashing and im trying to fix it lol

wraith comet
#

@brave crown Is potat you or is someone trying to make aimbot work or something?

desert crown
#

its someone

#

its not a bot

wraith comet
#

He asked me to circle around him with anything but a pistol, I did, and then said his shit wasn't working.

desert crown
#

he might be following nicks advice kekekw

#

maybe he got the windows 11 update

wraith comet
#

Oh, okay. Good to know.

gaunt lotus
#

that's me

#

trying to fix the footsteps

#

no need for an aimbot

#

have an organic one

desert crown
#

wait

#

was it actually

#

i wondered why i was dying so much when i was TRYING TO LOOK AT THE BOTS 2 days ago

gaunt lotus
#

you have to look with your gun and click

desert crown
#

@gaunt lotus working?

brave crown
#

ok the bots are back now @wraith comet lol

#

finally got that issue sorted

#

this is what the bot's client window looks like now. No rendering (unless you drop into debug mode, but that's mainly just for me). They should be much more lightweight than running a full client with rendering and everything

image.png
wraith comet
brave crown
#

That logic flow still needs some figuring out. Technically yes there's no reason they can't join a listen server, but there are some moving parts that need to be in place

#

Currently the bot is just launched with

AlpineFactionLauncher.exe -game -bot -url SERVER_ADDRESS

the idea is that the server controls it after that - personality profile, skill settings, etc. That server control part isn't done yet. RIght now it just has the default settings

#

which is why all the bots are evenly matched and act exactly the same way currently :p

wraith comet
brave crown
#

It's certainly doable, how to best do the UX is the big question mark

brave crown
#

Bots are staying in the server overnight, feel free to play with them and let me know how it goes ๐Ÿฅณ

gaunt lotus
brave crown
#

๐Ÿ”ฅ

#

how loud will that make SP lol

gaunt lotus
#

oh lmao i didnt check

brave crown
#

may need to adjust the falloff distances for those sounds :p

gaunt lotus
#

ya i am sure that in a fullish server this will also be a clusterfuck audio wise

#

pistolers were always loud though

#

RF characters are all heavy walkers with the pistol out

#

you know where they're coming from a mile away

split sleet
#

holy shit that will be HUGE change

#

reactionary flickers will loose on this tho ๐Ÿ˜ข

#

its interesting if it wont be cacophony of footsteps in bigger player formats

gaunt lotus
#

yeah, i'm not sure yet

#

will probably test that with bots lol

#

i am concerned that with a high player count the footsteps might overwrite other audio because the game has a limited number of sound sources that can play at any given time

split sleet
gaunt lotus
#

i think they did it on purpose but not for that reason

#

apparently this bug is because the animation files for the pistol contain timing references for footsteps (so that the sounds are timed according to the walking/running animation's foot landings)

#

but none of the other weapons have those references

#

so the game doesn't play footsteps for those weapons

#

so the on purpose part is that someone did not want to or forgot to or did not have time to go through the animations for every weapon's walk/run/crouch animations and time the footstep audio

#

it seems like even in singleplayer only pistol guards make footsteps so...

#

it's just unfinished

gaunt lotus
#

the funnier thing is that my brain interprets footsteps in RF as like... prey. because for years we've known that footsteps = pistol guy. but now you can't be so sure lmao

#

it's so weird hearing footsteps and peeking into a fucking shotgun

wraith comet
#

How did you fix this?

#

(It's been way too long, so I forgot precisely where this was defined.)

gaunt lotus
#

there are two ways to fix it, potentially

#

the fix that i have is not yet complete

wraith comet
gaunt lotus
#

the approach that we are probably going to settle on is injecting the triggers into the animations at runtime

#

in the short clip before, we were just playing footsteps from the entity when they exceed some m/s velocity

#

the third option would be to actually update the animations directly. not fun or worth it - that's like 60+ animations

brave crown
#

It could possibly also be a new entity.tbl but doing so would break a lot of stuff - injecting them when entity.tbl and the anim files are loaded is the cleanest way to do it

thorny pumice
crude oyster
brave crown
#

๐Ÿฅณ

silk tinsel
#

lmao

green cobalt
desert crown
green cobalt
desert crown
brave crown
#

so I did get RF2-style geomod mostly working. I say "mostly" because I'm still having some math errors with the crater interior faces. But I think it'll get there.

This is something that probably means way more to me than it does to anyone else, but I've strongly felt for many years (since 2002 basically) that RF2-style geomod would make geomod far more useful for multiplayer level design, and a lot safer and easier to use

green cobalt
#

nice. looks cleaner

desert crown
#

is it like a toggle on the geo region box?

#

or in the level settings

brave crown
#

RF2-style geomod has specific brushes that are designated as geoable, rather than regions or anything

desert crown
#

ahhhhhh

brave crown
#

Which means that you're not rebuilding the entire level (or room) after each crater, you're only rebuilding those detail brushes that were affected. Also means that because geo can't spill over, it can be tightly constrained without needing to worry about it breaking unrelated areas of the map that just happen to be next to the geo region

desert crown
#

RIP 100% hardness bugs

#

TBH and i say this unironically

#

If RF2 geo was an option id be more inclined to do it in a map like my Dwarven map

#

people want geo but i think RF1 geo would just destroy it

brave crown
#

this is what I mean when I say I've wanted it since 2002 ๐Ÿ˜› This implementation of geo makes using geo a lot more viable in a lot more instances

desert crown
#

idk where i'd put it mind you

#

i guess geoing the centre box and opening it up more maybe ๐Ÿ˜‚

split sleet
wraith comet
brave crown
#

my plan is to make it so level hardness is ignored if rf2 style geo is on, but geo regions can still be used for rf1 style geo in areas

#

i hope that plan will work

wraith comet
#

Neat. That sounds like it could open up some interesting doors regarding map design.

#

I will be watching this with interest.

zinc quiver
brave crown
#

hm? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

grand ocean
#

Imagin the re-coding that could be done to RF1 if we only had the source code ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿคฏ

brave crown
#

honestly it really wouldn't make too much difference

grand ocean
#

I'm imagining other stuff we could add or remove with source code access. Such as

Being able to add new weapons with custom secondary alt fire

Player abalities like deus ex or bioshock

Aliens that can walk on walls & ceiling

Tru total conversions.

A compleat vr port for pcvr & standalone hmd's.

brave crown
#

none of that is outside the realm of possibility now if someone wanted to make it ๐Ÿ˜› Those aren't things I really have any interest in implementing personally, but Alpine does accept PRs so if another developer out there wants to work with me to implement enhanced mod features or such, I'm totally up for that

gaunt lotus
#

secondary alt fire? like... alt alt fire? :p

brave crown
#

i think they meant like

#

grenade launcher as alt fire

#

like rf2

gaunt lotus
#

OHHHHHHHH

#

gotcha

brave crown
#

which is 100% doable, but it'd be something a TC mod would have to take on of course

thorny pumice
grand ocean
gaunt lotus
#

ahh ok I get you

wraith comet
#

I just wish it was possible to use the already existing altfires in MP lol.

gaunt lotus
#

well i think the only other one is the lock on RL?

#

it would be cool if AR SMG was usable, but i'm pretty sure they cut it from MP because they already have a weird/awkward balance going on between the AR/SMG/HMG, it's another weird thing to keep stateful tracking of and it would need to just be a worse AR with a smaller mag

#

it would just be kinda ass

wraith comet
gaunt lotus
#

ohh yeah, fair enough

#

i didnt say any of that to say that we should not make it work at some point down the line

wraith comet
#

Oh, yeah, no worries lol.

gaunt lotus
#

just I think volition made the decision to not have it with some consideration

wraith comet
#

Since it's pretty unlikely that anyone is going to be running a server with that mod unless they want the nicheness of it in the first place, I am considering just going all-in on making it as close to the original as possible.

#

But that's sort of impossible to do completely unless the altfires work. So it's in a weird sort of between state where I don't really know what I should do with it.

#

Granted, the likelihood of a server being run with it in the first place is astronomically low. So MP is my last priority. But I still want to actually do something with it, just in case.

#

I didn't really touch it in prior releases.

#

Once Alpine supports auto-downloading and switching to TC mods, the likelihood of a PS2 TC server being run is... well, probably still very low, but at least a little better than it is now. So you could consider this a future proofing of sorts in case any nerds like me come along.

#

Especially since once I finish the 2026 release of the mod that uses the Alpine stuff I needed to make it more accurate, I don't intend to update it again. It's intended to be a final release.

#

(Turns out, working on a PS2 TC for going on 7 years makes you a little sick of working on it.)

#

So I want to give it the proper sendoff that I wanted it to have years ago, and then be done with it for the most part.

grand ocean
#

__Just be glade ur not me. I'm such a huge procrastinater its taken me close to 25 years (off & on.. mostly off) to finish my star wars tc.. and there no new levels.. Just new weapons / force powers, charactor models, & item pickups. With some new weapon / charactor animations

wraith comet
# grand ocean 7 years..๐Ÿคฃ

It wasn't supposed to take 7 years, but uh, well, I'll just say that it's nice Goober doesn't intentionally make my life harder by telling me to go kick sand and allows other people to contribute also. So we can usually end up getting something implemented in a way that helps me and is also useful to other people. Like the AR ammo counter color being changeable.

#

I'm not entitled to things being implemented just so my niche little mod can be more accurate, but when it happens, it does make me happy to know people care.

#

That's why the mod now primarily supports Alpine Faction. Alpine has implemented things that it simply needs to fulfill its intended purpose. I do intend to have compatibility with Dash Faction for anyone still using it that played my mod before, so they can also benefit from whatever tweaks will work there. But DF isn't supported anymore and compatibility with it is on a best effort basis.

#

AKA: If it works, neat. If it doesn't, not much I can do about it.

brave crown
silk tinsel
#

no longer adding geo-regions? ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
#

it's for RF2-style geo mod (ie. geoable brushes instead of regions), yeah

silk tinsel
#

and emits steam? wtf

brave crown
#

It's completely working now. Still some edges I need to tidy up - like the "ground shake" effect from a geomod happening in maps that use rf2-style geo even if the explosion doesn't actually subtract anything. But those are easy to deal with and not super critical. All the core mechanics are functional now

silk tinsel
#

now a brush can emit steam like particle emitters ?

brave crown
#

? that has been in the editor since rf 1.0

#

https://www.redfactionwiki.com/wiki/RED_Brushes#Steam_Emitting_Brushes

RED Brushes

CSG brushes make up the geometry of each Red Faction level. Generally, level designers will create at least the basic layout of their map with brushes before moving on to placing objects or developing scripted sequences. Level design in RED is somewhat unique in the arena FPS genre due to GeoMod technology. Because GeoMod uses the boolean carve ...

silk tinsel
#

i really.. haven't used it at all, nor even noticed it.

gaunt lotus
#

they have to be shot i think

#

like pipes in sp

#

with sniper

silk tinsel
#

OH

brave crown
#

yeah - anything that has a penetration value sufficient to go through them

#

so rail or sniper/HMG for thin brushes

silk tinsel
#

for realism

#

should use that more often then

brave crown
#

definitely on any pipes

#

The only time I don't use that flag on pipes is if the pipe is in an area important to gameplay, because the steam also hurts players lol

#

and it's annoying to play around it

silk tinsel
#

by default it hurts ?

brave crown
#

it always hurts

silk tinsel
#

how bad is it

brave crown
#

actually maybe it only hurts without armour like outside, not sure

#

it's not much damage but the red flash is the more relevant thing

silk tinsel
#

i swear in my years of mapping, i never actually used that flag

brave crown
#

you should ๐Ÿ˜› it adds good atmosphere

silk tinsel
#

if i wanted steam that hurts, i always used particle emitters

brave crown
#

certainly one of the more subtle environmental details for sure, but it does add atmosphere

silk tinsel
#

noted.

brave crown
#

๐Ÿฅณ yeah rf2 style geo (with "Is Geoable" brushes) is working perfectly now. Super pleased with this

desert crown
#

are you going to update the RF2 MP maps to reflect this?

#

(including PIB)

brave crown
#

case-by-case basis (but probably yes)

desert crown
#

awesome ๐Ÿ˜„

grand ocean
brave crown
#

Honestly, I think it's just better, especially in MP, for any use of geo that doesn't involve tunneling

#

I've thought that for a long time ๐Ÿ˜› just never before have been able to actually design around it

desert crown
#

I will definitely be keen to adapt this

#

Ill probably leave dominoes the way it is but i might update Temple of War for those brushes, and Abkhin to let the middle thing be geo'd better ig

gaunt lotus
#

if you have a really big RF2 style brush, can you tunnel through it?

desert crown
#

Like a chonky fat brush?

brave crown
#

You could in theory yes lol

desert crown
#

is the size of the geo related to the level settings since its no longer tied to the box?

brave crown
#

Yes

desert crown
#

i seeee

#

so would I need to make a big geo box to turn off geo everywhere else? Eyes

brave crown
#

Level hardness when rf2 style geos are enabled controls the size of the rf2 style geos instead of the overall hardness of the map

desert crown
#

OH

#

so the second I turn on 1 RF2 geo brush it changes the whole thing

brave crown
#

No you need to switch it on in level properties

desert crown
#

oh right

#

mb

brave crown
#

"is geoable" does nothing unless that switch is on in level properties

desert crown
#

understood

gaunt lotus
#

i was thinking the use case could be like, big rocks and things that don't neatly fit into a typical geo region

brave crown
#

Yeah absolutely

desert crown
#

I guess thats partially why Volition got stricter as the games levels went on

#

trying to be neat with geo boxes is.. not it

brave crown
#

Geo brushes is much much more flexible for design

gaunt lotus
#

well vol 100% for RF2 sat down and actually designed the game around their tech from first principles

#

for the target platform... like, unquestionably it's an incredibly solid product in a technical sense

#

they just didn't end up designing around tunneling through anything significantly for RF2 with geo brushes because that was never in their design language

desert crown
#

As much as i don't like it for SP (RF2 included here anyway) I do think for MP maps it avoids so many edge cases of brushes that weren't meant to be geo'd cuz sometimes you just can't always line it up properly

gaunt lotus
#

yeah you can definitely incorporate it more into a map design when you have precise control over it like that

brave crown
#

Yeah 100% it solves many of the issues volition indicated they were having with the tech and many more issues that I'm confident based on my experience with the engine, they also had

#

Mostly around wanting to allow destruction for exploration but needing to actually control the player

crude oyster
brave crown
#

Solid brushes only (actually technically, solid brushes that are detail and geoable only). Air brushes being geo would just be normal geo ๐Ÿ˜›

Air brushes don't exist in game - RED during the build process merges all normal (ie. non-detail, non-mover) solid and air brushes into one big mesh, and that's what RF1 geo normally cuts out from

gaunt lotus
#

does this mean that there's no air in the game?

brave crown
#

No air on Mars coolbeans

crude oyster
brave crown
#

testing how geo regions interact with geoable brushes lol

20260223_233622_fuck1a.jpg
#

exactly how you'd expect

#

the geoable brush is also a detail brush, so it's unaffected by the geos made within the geo region

Geos made outside the geo region though, only affect the geoable detail brush and not any normal world geometry

#

(not that I'd recommend ever shoving a geo region on top of a geoable brush, but I just wanted to make sure the logic worked properly lol)

#

So yeah, you can use both standard RF1-style geo and RF2-style geo in the same map, just use geo regions for areas where you want RF1-style

brave crown
#

@desert crown because you were asking before how it's configured

image.png
#

(I need to make this advanced section look better eventually but it's functional at least)

wraith comet
#

I have to get back to the audio encoding mines. I just wanted to pop in to say hi and see what was going on.

brave crown
#

last thing before bed - I split out the limits for normal geos (affect the world) and rf2-style geos (affect specific geoable brushes)

image.png
#

I probably should have had a different count for each when I took that screenshot in retrospect lol

#

but either way, they're tracked separately and evaluated against a different limit

brave crown
#

what I think is the last major component of rf2-style geo. Isolated chunks turning into physics objects and falling (just like normal geomod)

20260224_112355_fuck11.jpg 20260224_112233_fuck11.jpg
gaunt lotus
desert crown
#

wut ๐Ÿ˜ญ

gaunt lotus
#

plink plink

desert crown
#

silencer ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

#

its no longer a bug?

#

i can just have it? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

gaunt lotus
#

thanks to this video's sponsor primary arms

#

for sending us out this glock silencer that breaks legacy clients

desert crown
#

lmao

obsidian warren
desert crown
#

ok but thats not as fun as having the actual thing on it

#

but like its definitely a waste of time in MP :p

wraith comet
wraith comet
glacial storm
desert crown
#

it says 1 but its technically 0

gaunt lotus
boreal ether
#

nice i like it

wraith comet
# wraith comet โ €

@gaunt lotus (The joke here is that since it's a silencer, my reply was silent. This wasn't a slight lol.)

brave crown
desert crown
wraith comet
brave crown
#

the second part of what I'm cooking for RF2-inspired mapping features. Breakable detail brushes that are not glass.

Excuse the very very rudimentary destruction effect lol, but this is a breakable brush with material type rock

#

(the panel needs to look better than this, just temporary)

image.png
desert crown
#

i totally forgot they had materials for the breakables that felt like particle fall offs

brave crown
#

yeah in RF2 brushes can be destroyed, you don't need to use clutter for things like this

wraith comet
#

I imagine it's going to make several things way more flexible.

brave crown
#

๐Ÿ‘€

image.png
gaunt lotus
#

u can make an lcd panel now

#

or maybe not

#

funny tho

viral light
#

goober is putting me out of business

brave crown
#

Definitely a bad day for anyone that likes random pink faces ๐Ÿ‘€

#

What is a reasonable limit though, lol. I need to set something

gaunt lotus
#

67

brave crown
#

๐Ÿ˜

gaunt lotus
#

its per face right?

#

oh nvm

brave crown
#

yes

#

static constexpr int max_face_lights = 1024;
static constexpr int max_scene_lights = 4096;

this is what im going with for now I think

#

which is plenty realistically

#

stock values were 64 and 1100

gaunt lotus
#

makes sense

#

enjoy managing 4k lights lmao

brave crown
#

I think @crude oyster will enjoy that enough for all of us :p

gaunt lotus
#

you will need some brood war players to quickly adjust lighting values

brave crown
#

the Propagate Lighting button will earn its keep for sure

#

pink faces can still be achieved you just need 1024 lights on a surface lol

image.png
crude oyster
brave crown
#

kinda crazy how many lights this engine can support now lol

I went with:

Total lights per level limit: 8192 (up from 1100)

Lights affecting a single face limit: 1024 (up from 64)

image.png
brave crown
#

like these bars on lava control lol

20260227_103330_dmlavacontrol5rc3.jpg
boreal ether
#

Had to do it recently in Blerd Runner map

brave crown
#

yeah, not surprised ๐Ÿ™

#

Anyway you'll not have to deal with that anymore in the future ๐Ÿ˜›

slow yarrow
#

how dare you not let me use taunts after game has been running for 2 weeks

crude oyster
brave crown
crude oyster
brave crown
#

sure no worries ๐Ÿ™‚

brave crown
#

for non-glass breakable detail brushes, I now have the game slicing up the brush the mapper provided into debris - this is all just from the brush in the map, no debris v3m or anything like that

#

(this is basically how UE5 does fracture meshes lol)

brave crown
#

Yeah I think the RED geometry limits are much more reasonable now for the modern day ๐Ÿ˜› I just shoved 3 RF2 imported maps on top of eachother and it builds fine lol (crashed the editor before these new fixes)

#

(and this is not with "Render Everything" either)

gaunt lotus
#

bigger editor limits is huge

brave crown
# 
- Raise level editor geo_cache limits: face list 16384 to 65536, batch count 512 to 1024, memory pool 8 MB to 32 MB
- Raise level editor detail rooms limit from 256 to 8192
- Fix level editor geometry rebuild sometimes reusing stale data from previous builds
- Fix level editor geometry sometimes not properly rendering after rebuilding
- Fix level editor crash when calculating lightmaps on levels with more than ~45000 faces
nimble sierra
#

incredible lol

slow yarrow
brave crown
#

entire there's really no point - the engine's load level sequences work extremely well

I do think that SP levels now can be much longer and more complex. Like, perhaps what would have been a full 3-4 level chapter in the current campaign could just be 1 map now

gaunt lotus
#

entire sp campaign as a big DM map

#

come fight me motherfucker im over here hiding in the reaper farm

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

oh you're at miner registration? see you soon

#

the real RF battle royale map

grand ocean
#

All the progress @brave crown is making with alphine faction. Its basicly working with a whole new engine.

#

How long till we can import idtech maps? Any & all versions ๐Ÿค” ๐Ÿ˜‚

gaunt lotus
#

that's on my wishlist too lol

#

but probably kinda complicated

brave crown
#

looks good

#

especially that miner hovering over the ground

#

@wraith comet ^relevant to your interests

crude oyster
# brave crown ``` - Raise level editor geo_cache limits: face list 16384 to 65536, batch count...

Neat! ๐Ÿ˜

One concern though, RED had no problem rendering 50k+ faces before, even in portal mode, (although you often had to build geometry twice to get it all built at those numbers ๐Ÿ˜›) as long as you weren't past the per room vertex limits that cause dx9 to crash.

So RED crashing on build was annoying but a good indicator that you just added something that is probably going to break the map for dx9 players. So you know you now have to find a more efficient or alternate way to do what you just did or try to find more ways to portal the room or just have to stop with the details in that room.

So are the in game dx9 rendering capabilities also being increased with these upgrades or is it just gonna be a surprise now when we launch in dx9 and the map doesn't work and now have to back track to try to figure out what killed it? ๐Ÿค”

I don't think dx9 players are gonna be going away any time soon, so I'd like to keep my future maps compatible with both dx9 and dx11. ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
#

are the in game dx9 rendering capabilities also being increased with these upgrades
possibly, unconfirmed

I will say though that as a general matter, full compatibility with both dx9 and dx11 for everything forever into the future isn't realistic - I'm talking about Alpine now, but it would be entirely reasonable for maps to be similar

DX11 will amost definitely be the "recommended" renderer in Alpine 1.3 - not that DX9 will stop being available, but looking at DX9 compatibility as a "nice to have" vs a requirement is a pretty reasonable stance IMO

gaunt lotus
#

the other thing to note here is that the dx9 renderer is not really "true" dx9 either - it's just dx8 being translated to dx9 calls via the compatibility .dll

#

so I think its safe to say that you are potentially bumping into DX8 limitations rather than DX9 limitations

brave crown
#

yeah, sorry I use those terms interchangeably but yeah it's mostly all (if not all) related to the dx8 renderer rather than specifically dx9

gaunt lotus
#

it's just important i think to empahize how old the dx8 renderer actually is and what the limits of that API (within reason) probably are

brave crown
#

Though that being said, the editor changes are all in the rendering pipeline which is common to both the editor and the game so in theory replicating these improvements to the game's default renderer (dx8/9) is probably practical

#

though it's never going to run as well as dx11 ever, and will always have limitations dx11 doesn't have

crude oyster
#

Can old computers on integrated graphics even use dx11? Cuz I feel like thats a big chunk of the RF player base. ๐Ÿ˜›

gaunt lotus
#

yeah, in most cases they should be able to

#

DX11 is not that new and most of the DX11 render is actually DX10 anyway

brave crown
#

also RF isn't using any of the "super modern" DX features anyway. It's all pretty standard stuff

gaunt lotus
#

looks like ivy bridge and llano were the first onboards to support dx11

#

that's 2011-2012 era hardware

crude oyster
gaunt lotus
#

yeah but even if we knew in this case, it would be difficult to change course or change what actions are taken if we want to raise the limits for maps

#

like maybe you can reduce the limits to just the edge of dx8 compatibility, but then you're holding everything else back for the sake of computers that may not continue to be in service for many more years regardless

#

and those computers are likely already not able to run some of the content that's been made currently at above a tolerable framerate... so, i doubt they have much more room to give

#

but it would be good info to have in terms of content creation, like you would be able to determine how far you want to go there

#

in theory there's nothing stopping us from integrated hardware analytics like steam's into alpine, and just collecting them on FF

#

and "nothing" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here

crude oyster
#

I guess. Would probably make me really ponder though if I want to make a map dx11 only, if we found out like a third of the player base can't even run it. ๐Ÿ˜› I think goober can tell who is on 9 and who is on 11 at GN. So once 11 is set to recomended for next alpine, might be useful to track for a while, how many players use 9 vs 11 to see if keeping maps compatable with 9 is worth while.

desert crown
#

could swap the default to 11 and if people have problems drop back down to 9

brave crown
#

I can't tell that without asking them

Or I guess unless they send crash logs lol

also I'd add that there are definitely a lot more people running dx9 than need to be (or, arguably, should be) just because it's the default, because dx11 for so long was not fully-featured, and because dx9 is still labeled as "recommended"

#

so, knowing what they are running isn't really the important part. Knowing what they ideally would be running is

gaunt lotus
#

DX11 should probably become the default and prompt and/or reset old configs if they were using DX9

brave crown
#

that was my plan, yeah

desert crown
#

maybe do that for AF 1.3 ye

gaunt lotus
#

if we wanted to the launcher could use dxdiag to figure out which DX level is supported

#

or theres probably some powershell query

brave crown
#

popup on a new AF 1.3 install that says like "You have DX9 selected. We recommend DX11, do you want to try it?"

#

(not exact wording obviously lol)

gaunt lotus
#

i would just default it on if their gpu supports it

brave crown
#

ah yeah maybe

either way, the method needs to be determined. But AF 1.3 definitely needs some way to either default or encourage the majority of players to move to dx11. It's just better for 99.9% of players at this point

#

runs better, more features, less bugs lol

gaunt lotus
#

it just won't be compatabile with some retro pc setups for sure

crude oyster
gaunt lotus
#

i think DX10 was the limit for WinXP? or was that 9

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

oh i think they did some shit like vista would be the only DX10 OS, then backported it later after nobody installed vista

#

lol

brave crown
#

alpine doesn't support anything before win 7 (or well, maybe vista, but I haven't tried)

#

very, very , VERY limited audience out there would be running win 7+ and have hardware that doesnt support dx11

#

I'd be very surprised if that's more than a handful of players

gaunt lotus
#

ya and its not like the old renderer is going away

#

just might not be able to play some newer stuff

#

it's a wash

brave crown
#

yep, correct

#

i have 0 plan to remove the legacy renderer, but it's absolutely true that as time goes on there will be less and less people with any reason to actually use it

#

obviously a little dorky for the huge brush but this isn't intended for such large brushes

#

that was just to make it easier for me to see the mechanics lol

desert crown
#

amazing me to mthat a pistol can split rock like that lolpup

brave crown
#

right?

desert crown
#

whats in that pistol

#

explosive bullets

brave crown
#

anything is possible in fuck1aaaaa.rfl

desert crown
#

๐Ÿ˜‚ ๐Ÿ˜‚

#

including big black boxes

gaunt lotus
brave crown
#

this reminds me of when someone puts their finger half covering a camera lens

gaunt lotus
#

ahahah yeah]

#

it's a bit corny

brave crown
#

it is a good idea to make directional damage indicators that are less shit than the stock game's though

#

some sort of vignette perhaps, with a more heavily shaded side to show the side you took damage from?

#

what you have already is far more useful than the stock though already

gaunt lotus
#

what you describe is what im going for

#

what's above is what i have lmao

#

we have vignettes at home

brave crown
#

lmao

desert crown
#

lol

grand ocean
grand ocean
#

My laptop is too old to support win 11 & now that win 10 support ended im thinking imstalling Lubuntu or Q4os ( lightwight version of debian)

Does anyone know if alphine faction works on Linux via ProtonDB Proton? If not i still have my gaming desktop.

wraith comet
wraith comet
#

I noticed that the bob sometimes ever so briefly reverts to the old behavior before correcting itself, but only when bumping terrain when jumping, so that's probably a velocity related thing.

wraith comet
#

So I'm pretty sure the Gaussian Spread affects enemies in SP too. I notice a marked increase in their accuracy, and the game's difficulty, when I turn it on, at the cost of being more controllably accurate myself.

#

This is not a negative observation. I think that's a good tradeoff actually.

#

RF is fairly easy unless you play on Impossible, Hard is definitely Harder but also feels more random. When turning on Gaussian Spread, it feels like it sort of normalizes the wide discrepancies and makes even Normal decently challenging enough if you're surrounded.

desert crown
wraith comet
#

Ah okay, I wasn't sure if that was intended or not, but I wanted to say I liked it.

desert crown
#

time to rerun Impossible with Gaussian ๐Ÿคฃ

wraith comet
#

@brave crown Would it be possible to add a CVAR to disable the detail textures that are only visible when you shine the flashlight that Alpine added? I think they look kind of strange since they're clearly unfinished, and all surfaces use the same rock-based detail texture.

#

It could actually be a neat feature for mappers, but the game only has one detail texture and it's a placeholder.

desert crown
#

i think it would be neat if the flashlight just got its own prio-upgrade to behave more like a flash light Eyes the way it works right now just doesn't feel like a torch, its just like a beam of circular light enhancement lol

#

no fade out or anything

glacial storm
brave crown
#

Indeed, and I definitely understand the frustration there (and would love to fix it if there's anything I can do about it). That said, your system is the only system I am aware of where D3D11 doesn't perform notably better than D3D9 ๐Ÿ™

#

@glacial storm I may have asked this before, but are you using AA on D3D11?

#

If you are, you may want to try turning it off and seeing if that makes a difference

crude oyster
brave crown
#

well @glacial storm I asked my friendly neighbourhood AI agent about your issue and this is what I got. I am definitely no professional graphics programmer but this at least sounds like it could be the issue

image.png
crude oyster
desert crown
#

DX11 @wraith comet

image.png
#

But I would prefer a more natural feeling torch like most other games have

#

get you a proper fadeout

acebeam-l35-2-0-huge-corona-v0-fzkmx7j2dkrd1.png
brave crown
#

Right, you're each describing a different thing - I agree that the rocky detail overlay doesn't look the best, but that is d3d8/9 only. D3d11 has a much nicer actual light, but it's still at the end of the day the case that the flashlight is moving around a point light

desert crown
#

sorry I was just adding for my own request ๐Ÿ˜… i was showing duke the dx11 light

brave crown
#

it is possible to make that a better light though yes - like actually a spotlight like a flashlight should be ๐Ÿ˜› rather than a moving point light

That is an example of a feature though that would absolutely be d3d11 only

desert crown
#

for sure

brave crown
#

๐Ÿ‘€ may have just solved a lighting issue that has been pissing me off for over 2 decades lol

#

before

image.png
#

just need to make sure there's no unwanted side effects, but the intended effect here (which is working) is that portals slicing through brushes don't create hard lightmap edges

desert crown
#

wheres the portal in that map- i assume its there;

image.png
brave crown
#

that's one of them yes, you can see another in the distance

desert crown
#

ahhhh

brave crown
#

this is certainly not yet to a point where I'm happy with it, and it would definitely need serverside permissions... but something I'm experimenting with

#

@glacial storm if you're willing to try a test build, I have something that may be at least a partial mitigation for your FPS issues with DX11

glacial storm
glacial storm
glacial storm
brave crown
brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

anyone know of a map that breaks fpguns off the top of your head (big far clip)? i can't open RED for reasons

brave crown
#

ice's br is the only one that comes immediately to mind

#

but I know there are some huge canyon maps that have it too, just cant think of any off the top of my head

gaunt lotus
#

is 1k the max far clip?

brave crown
#

it starts to cut off fpguns at around 450 if my memory is right

#

may be different in dx11

gaunt lotus
#

hmm yeah i cant replicate on dx11

brave crown
#

this looks way nicer now

20260302_152602_L1S2.jpg
#

the angle is too steep but ya

#

obviously no actual sunlight ๐Ÿ˜› and doing shadowcasts from every light would be way too intensive but either way, will be a nice improvement from the blobs

desert crown
#

Shadows pog

wraith comet
# desert crown DX11 <@464599315663290388>

Strange. To answer, I probably can, but I had some performance issues last time. So I'll see if it's any better now that Goober has done some tuning since the last time I did.

#

I can usually run DX11 fine, the RF1 DX11 renderer was just a problem specifically.

wraith comet
#

Huh. I just tested, why does the flashlight look so much better in D3D8/9 compared to 11?

#

Like it's actually useful in D3D8/9, but it's so faint in 11 that there's basically no point to it.

brave crown
wraith comet
#

(I'm uploading comparison screenshots now. Give ol' Bessie a second.)

wraith comet
#

Left is D3D8/9, right is D3D11. The flashlight basically doesn't even exist in 11. It looks way better in 8/9.

brave crown
#

hard disagree that it looks "better", since in d3d8/9 it's just a texture shoved on the face and in d3d11 it's a projected light ๐Ÿ˜›

but what Alpine version is that? It was super dim a while ago but I thought that was fixed as of 1.2.2

wraith comet
#

When I say better, I mean actually visible lol. I hate to say, but the projected light isn't a very good flashlight.

wraith comet
brave crown
#

if it's not visible enough, it just needs to have its intensity cranked up a bit

wraith comet
#

It really does, yeah. I can barely even see it. I don't think it'd be helpful in a dark mod right now.

brave crown
#

it's a lot more visible in areas that are actually dark, for the record

#

but still pretty dim yeah

wraith comet
#

I'm sure it is, the light is just way too small and dim. Needs a bit of a boost and it'd be good.

#

The D3D8/9 one looks super washed out and not amazing, but I can see it being a lot more helpful in a dark area if you need a flashlight with its intensity.

#

Aside from that, though, it looks like you fixed my performance issues on D3D11.

brave crown
#

๐Ÿ˜„

#

this is what I mean - in dark areas as-is it's very visible

20260302_165920_lighttest1.jpg 20260302_165921_lighttest1.jpg
wraith comet
#

I still think it needs to be stronger imo.

#

A miner's headlamp would be a lot stronger.

brave crown
#

right

wraith comet
crude oyster
wraith comet
brave crown
#

got subcategory support working for custom textures in RED ๐Ÿฅณ

image.png
#

another one of those long-term pain point I've personally had :p

brave crown
# 
[   0.00] INFO: Alpine Faction Editor log started.
[   0.02] INFO: Initialized extended_event_names with 135 entries
[   1.19] INFO: Enumerating custom texture subdirectories: J:\RF\RF24\user_maps\textures\*
[   1.19] INFO: Registered custom texture category: 'Custom - GooberPack1' (path_handle=10)
[   1.19] INFO: Registered custom texture category: 'Custom - RF2' (path_handle=11)
[   1.19] INFO: Registered 2 custom texture subdirectories (total categories: 47)
[   3.88] WARN: Packfile: Skipping missing file: J:\RF\RF24\user_maps\textures\ff.tga
[   3.88] WARN: Packfile: Skipping missing file: J:\RF\RF24\user_maps\textures\hhhhh.tga
[   3.88] WARN: Packfile: Skipping missing file: J:\RF\RF24\user_maps\textures\fhfdhhg.tga
[   3.88] WARN: Packfile: Skipping missing file: J:\RF\RF24\user_maps\textures\brdit.tga

this is what it does now. Doesn't error on packfile creation, just outputs errors to the log

wraith comet
#

That's going to be super helpful for organizing custom textures.

#

You're making me want to learn to map, man.

#

I just can't stand RED's control scheme. I know you guys like it, but I hate it.

#

It's not that bad, really. I just don't like it.

#

I really wish it was more intuitive to use for someone who hasn't used it for 20 years and has experience with other map editors.

#

I'll try though. Just wish I could remap the control scheme a bit.

brave crown
#

i mean, adding an alternate control scheme is totally doable lol

#

full remapping is probably way overkill, but a switch to swap to a more "modern" control scheme is totally doable

#

like WASD instead of A/Z/Numpad1/Numpad3

wraith comet
#

I'd very much appreciate that. Though I am still going to try to learn the default, I'm not going to shy away from a challenge. I just find using RED more frustrating than fun.

#

I will probably never like it, so you'd have my eternal gratitude if you made a modern control scheme alt.

#

There's two main things that frustrate me with RED. The controls is the first one.

gaunt lotus
#

equally you can probably make ahk mappings to replace the controls you dont like much more easily

wraith comet
#

The second one is that it seems to have a mind of its own sometimes, something in my test map will fuck up when I try to do literally anything, and it gives me absolutely no accessible recourse or feedback unless I'm in the know. So I sit there just wondering wtf happeend.

#

Which loops back into the controls. I get so confused with them that I usually don't know what to do.

#

I am fairly certain part of it is skill issue, but I also don't understand some of the things that happen.

#

I was ripping my hair out once trying to figure out why this room I built would not align to the grid to save my life when it should have.

brave crown
#

the biggest reason people run into stuff like that is that when you grid align with Ctrl+G it aligns the center of the bbox of your brush to the grid. If the brush itself doesn't have neat bbox dimensions (ie. aligned to a 0.25 grid MAX) it can get really screwy

wraith comet
#

Oh my god is that why? That was driving me insane.

brave crown
#

for the record, I use Ctrl+G extremely rarely

#

it's far easier to just build on grid as opposed to build off grid and then grid align with a hotkey, most of the time

wraith comet
#

I tried Ctrl+G only because I couldn't get it aligned myself, and it made it worse, and I was just like wtf is happening.

brave crown
#

Also when you rotate it also rotates around the bbox center, which can cause things to go off grid when rotating

#

Whenever I need to rotate something with a weird bbox size I just make a big grid-aligned box on top of it, rotate it together with the box, then delete the box lol

#

it keeps it aligned

wraith comet
#

If you do implement a control toggle, let me know. I might also use ahk as a stopgap, maybe, if it becomes a real problem for me. I'm going to try the defaults though.

#

Do you think the mesh to brush workflow is viable for me to use something like Trenchbroom or Blockbench to do some basic blockouts, then go into RED to flesh them out?

#

I think that'd really help me until I get used to it.

#

At least then I could blockout some basic ideas while I'm experimenting and trying to learn the editor.

#

(I promise, this time, it's not going to be a rickroll.)

brave crown
# wraith comet Do you think the mesh to brush workflow is viable for me to use something like T...

It's completely practical for geometry

Where you run into issues is the difference between air and solid brushes

importing meshes for like... a statue or something. Or a door. Totally fine. Importing a room is an issue because you need an air (subtraction) brush before you can add anything to it

Of course making that air brush is probably pretty simple in most cases, you just need to keep it in mind

wraith comet
#

I feel like it's better to do as much in it as possible to learn.

brave crown
#

Would someone mind testing out this subdirectory support feature? It should work fine - works fine for me, but sometimes these things are inconsistent between PCs

#

I'd rather have at least someone else try it out before it's merged into the main Alpine branch

wraith comet
boreal ether
#

Those shadow look insane, amazing how a shadow can make the graphics look better

wraith comet
#

It won't load for me, but I'm sure it's fantastic.

thorny pumice
glacial storm
viral light
#

i actually don't really like the shadows. maybe dm01 is not a good demo but idk

desert crown
#

tbh i think it can look jarring cuz there is no defined sunlight value in RF (so they still look a bit stretched and buggy) but also im curious - are you just dictating 0,0,0 as the sun spot or

brave crown
#

it's not even close to 0,0,0 ๐Ÿ˜› but yes it's a static angle. It's too shallow of an angle right now though for sure

desert crown
#

well by that i just mean

#

i should have specified, not on 0,0,0 just, aiming down at that

#

๐Ÿ˜‚

brave crown
# 
        static constexpr float light_dir_x = 2.0f;
        static constexpr float light_dir_y = -1.0f;
        static constexpr float light_dir_z = 1.5f;

currently - this should be closer to overhead though

desert crown
#

gotcha

brave crown
desert crown
#

yeah i prefer the soft local shadow than the one that stretches out

brave crown
#

and reduced it down to 3 config options:

r_shadowcorpses
r_shadowquality
r_shadowdistance

quality and distance accept 0-4 (very low to very high). corpses is a toggle

glacial storm
brave crown
#

that was to be phase 2 of this :p

gaunt lotus
#

that looks really good

brave crown
#

yeah im really pleased - far more performant too than the stock RF CPU-based vertex lighting method

#

(maybe not on an integrated GPU though, not sure)

desert crown
#

tbh i had to go and look myself and god dam is that hard edge irritating me

image.png
#

is that anything to do with portal slicing or is it just a shit light ๐Ÿ˜ญ

brave crown
#

It's probably portal slicing but you can confirm that

#

The debug rendering options - there's one for show portal faces I think? Or show rooms in different colors

desert crown
#

tbh unsure if it actually worked i turned it on then off so no difference ๐Ÿ˜ญ

image.png
#

wait thats so cool wtf

image.png
#

im not sure any of them show me i can just open it in RED

brave crown
#

oh the debug modes might not work in d3d11 actually

#

yeah RED works

#

l5s2.rfl for the record

desert crown
#

nope its not a portal slice its just shit

image.png
#

its probably cuz its a ramp, and probably cuz it stands out due to being red, but yeesh

#

i deleted all the lights and its still there ๐Ÿ˜ญ

image.png
#

(the lights up top are not point lights they are only lights for the obj)

#

like its not as bright without them but it do still just be red

brave crown
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probably needs smoothing groups

desert crown
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unfort

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stock level

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can't amend

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i mean i could for other users

brave crown
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gpu lighting on static meshes too

20260303_144220_l5s2.jpg
desert crown
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not for me :p

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yooo thats so nice

gaunt lotus
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martian light

brave crown
gaunt lotus
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only slightly more weird than mauritian light

desert crown
brave crown
desert crown
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ayyyy

brave crown
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And of course the VFX format is the pain that it always is lol

Need to put together a whole new shadow rendering method just for VFX because it stores mesh data completely unlike V3D/V3C (which are effectively the same format apart from bones)

desert crown
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time to finally make the blender plugin for vfx KappaKan

brave crown
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after I go through this process I doubt that will be super difficult lol

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at least to make new ones

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doing the circular pipeline

vfx->blender->vfx

might be more challenging

desert crown
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๐Ÿ˜„

brave crown
desert crown
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the basic fact that things would be dynamically lit where they are instead of where they originate is huge

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like i know technically thats already in

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but like

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all of its coming together ๐Ÿ˜ญ

crude oyster
brave crown
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Oh are they supposed to be? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

gaunt lotus
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well they are screens so it would make sense

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but im guessing that's all one mesh

brave crown
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It is, but you can specify full right on specific faces

crude oyster
# desert crown the basic fact that things would be dynamically lit where they are instead of wh...

This would actually totally break all the catan maps day/night cycle if it applies to static meshes haha. It relies on lighting not being updated as meshes move into the scene to cover all the geometry. Guess I'd have to re do them and find a new way, except if this is only dx11, then finding an alternate way that works for 9 and 11 would probably be impossible. ๐Ÿ˜ perhaps an option in mapinfo table to disable it if thats the case? ๐Ÿค”

crude oyster
crude oyster
brave crown
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You should be able to switch model.to a VFX already I think, you would just need to switch from a clutter that is already a vfx

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(like the water plant)

slow yarrow
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when are you gonna tackle auto mod download like auto map

brave crown
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That's neat though - I saw his project on GitHub the other day

crude oyster
brave crown
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If I do something like that it'll be built into redux as a conversion flow of some kind but yeah a plugin is definitely cool

brave crown
# slow yarrow when are you gonna tackle auto mod download like auto map

It is on the agenda - something we've wanted to take on for a long time. Probably won't be far into the future now. The biggest issue tbh isn't even the code part or the backend part on FF, it's figuring out versioning and such for mods that have never needed such a system. Much more complicated than it is for maps

brave crown
crude oyster
brave crown
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I still wouldn't suggest using VFX very much

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They're very very VERY inefficient

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I am planning to try to make them more efficient to render but so far that's just a concept

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They do perform very poorly on dx8/9 though I know for certain

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Though it may depend on which chunks within the VFX format are used, idk for sure

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VFX has a lot of capabilities lol. Lots of different kinds of chunks can be included

crude oyster
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I guess whenever it's released I'll just have to do some experimenting with it and see how it goes and if its too much of a performance hit.

brave crown
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I've also been considering if it's worth making a more "proper" way to put meshes in maps. Like a mesh object that you can set properties on and not have to switch model on a clutter object

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Would also make it much much easier to handle animations on skeletal meshes in mp that way

crude oyster
brave crown
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Re: dx11 though just for the record - most graphics improvements and optimizations going forward are going to be for d3d11... Not because I wouldn't like to support the older renderers too but just because it's usually not practical

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This improved lighting is 100% dx11 only

crude oyster
brave crown
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That is a good idea yeah

crude oyster
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Like I'd already use something like that on graveyard to disable all the dynamic lights that glitch out in dx9 but look great in dx11.

brave crown
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Probably also worth having a level properties checkbox to restrict a level to dx11 only too - not that I'd suggest using it often, but there will undoubtedly be some maps down the road that just won't work at all without dx11

brave crown
crude oyster
# brave crown <@447137348162158593> go to 2:30

looks broken? ๐Ÿค” looks like at night the meshes are getting the day light but the day light mesh amb light scale has been turned way down making em super dark during the day. Also the dynamic lights aren't working on the keyframe brush anymore. ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
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oh wait hang on, I think it might not be applying to meshes changed via Switch_Model

brave crown
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having the weirdest issue ever with shadows lol

20260304_014043_2_ctf02.jpg
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it looks like it's multiplying the sniper rifle O.o

gaunt lotus
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i see the issue

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whatever u did is making it all green

brave crown
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ay

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don't enter dbg_shadows then lol

boreal ether
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Well there it is people, the first weapon skin on the market. Called, Green Fade.

image.png
desert crown
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@brave crown btw

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this is probably just, a future/1.4 style address

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but, is there a way to fix the game not giving you an ammo pick up if you reload whilst walking over the ammo pick up