#Alpine Faction

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desert crown
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im trying to think of a recent example off my head

brave crown
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i intentionally never add any that I know is a risk :p

desert crown
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fuck XD

brave crown
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it rarely happens because I usually catch them

desert crown
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Sorrows Peak

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Geo mod is on that

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no limit

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afaik

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except the buildings

brave crown
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steener's station is the big one that comes to mind for me

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you can break that map with like 6 remote charges

desert crown
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OH

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i know what i was thinking of but it doesn't apply

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Batemans RFU5

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it only breaks if you're using more than the base game geo settings

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and IAC fixed Drug house

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OH OH

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THE ZELDA MAP

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the uhhh

brave crown
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hyrule castle i think

desert crown
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but yeah this map

image.png
brave crown
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another use case is configuring different gungame weapon levels for different maps

desert crown
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would we want that?

brave crown
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yes

desert crown
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didn't we pick maps that worked with it?

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or rather

brave crown
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?

desert crown
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didn't you pick maps that worked with it

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like we avoided maps that the rockets fucked with or w/e

brave crown
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sure but with this that would be unnecessary

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so more maps become viable

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fusion is a perfectly fine gungame tier in some levels, it's awful in others

brave crown
# desert crown would we want that?

but also just on this - this isn't a question I'm asking. It's about providing flexibility, and the flexibility is absolutely something that would be desired

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what configs server hosts want to set is up to them

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i dont really care what anyone sets on their own stuff :p

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if someone wants to have gungame on dm02 which is tracking weapons only, but gungame on killbox is all explosives, have at it

desert crown
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fair enough

split sleet
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space ghost's screenie

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๐Ÿ˜„

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from gn

brave crown
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i dont see an issue here @green cobalt

desert crown
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HE'S USING MY CHIPS AND BURGER

brave crown
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Man, spawn weapons are annoying lol

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Well - ensuring compatibility with legacy clients is annoying

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doing loadouts with all alpine players is easy, but allowing the classic way of just changing the spawn weapon and allowing legacy clients in the server... is annoying

brave crown
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alright i think I've got a good approach

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spawn weapon can be set on the server regardless. default loadout config is just to give players whatever the spawn weapon is. If loadouts are changed beyond that, then the server needs to be set to alpine only (since non-alpine clients wont be able to use the loadout config)

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default maintains stock behaviour - baton with 1 extra clip and pistol with 3 extra clips

image.png
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and if I set

  [base.rules.spawn_weapon]
  weapon_name = "Assault Rifle"
  clips = 2```

then, loadout is updated accordingly
image.png
hybrid wraith
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is there an exquivlent to this that will run on xp for the retro community of people that wana play on retro hardware and os like win xp?

brave crown
hybrid wraith
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its not me its someone els

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whose built a retro system to play games

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and i relizd theres a gap in growing scene of tetro gaming possibly

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dats all

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doesnt hurt to ask incase

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worst u get is no

brave crown
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ok, well why do they want to run Alpine? ๐Ÿ˜›

To directly answer your question, no, there is no currently available build of Alpine which will run on Windows XP. As I mentioned, if you or someone else wants to work on on that, I'm definitely willing to chat about it and advise, etc. but it's not something I'm planning to take on myself

But, if for example you just wanted to play the stock single player campaign on retro hardware, you really don't need Alpine for that

I mean, ultimately if you're using retro hardware, the issues and limitations that were associated with software at the time are to be expected ๐Ÿ˜›

Most of what Alpine does is remove those issues and limitations, and add new functionality. But for a retro system looking to recreate the period, I'm not quite sure why you'd need Alpine

hybrid wraith
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i mean online

brave crown
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Uhh

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Ok so two parts to that

hybrid wraith
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๐Ÿ˜›

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cheers goober no stress the dumbest question is the one never asked

brave crown
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  1. I would never under any circumstances recommend anyone use RF online without Alpine (or Dash at the very least)
  2. I would never under any circumstances recommend anyone connect a Windows XP system to the internet in 2025, and I'm not interested in enabling that ๐Ÿ˜›
hybrid wraith
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๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
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tl;dr: your friend should absolutely not be connecting an XP system to the internet, and definitely shouldn't be trying to play RF online on it

hybrid wraith
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k

desert crown
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So many god damn security risks

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at the very least if u wanna run XP you might get lucky with a Pure Faction client

brave crown
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I mean, if someone wants to build a retro system that's totally cool, but connecting it to the internet is a really bad idea

And yeah, most (all?) PF versions will work on XP for sure. But again, it comes down to the problem you're trying to solve. I guess if all you want is widescreen resolution support in SP and you don't care about the HUD messages being misaligned, using PF is a good option ๐Ÿ˜› but for what you're doing on an XP retro system, v1.2 or v1.21 is probably plenty

gaunt lotus
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i will go against the grain here and say that if your retro system is being used specifically, and only for gaming, and contains no sensitive information on it (accounts, login sessions, etc.) then as long as your XP machine is behind NAT and you are not browsing crazy shit it is totally fine to connect it to the internet for the sole purpose of playing those retro games

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there are build flags in alpine and dash that may strip some of the stuff which makes it not work on XP out

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i've definitely not tested them, dunno if anyone really has

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RF is not one such game, but there are probably less scrupulous retro games which you should not really be running on any system at all

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the issue with saying "don't connect your XP retro machine to the internet" is that pretty much everyone with one of these does and will regardless. anyone with this specific hobby needs to learn to actually assess and manage risk without being told to just abstain entirely, because they aren't going to do that but they might take the advice of not doing anything private on that machine - which is much more important.

brave crown
gaunt lotus
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the main 2 big things for RF on XP that I'd confirm though is that you have system-wide DEP enabled (it's default on modern windows, but not on XP) and for some further paranoia you could use some firewall (host based or otherwise) to limit traffic to your RF client's port to specifically the IPs of the server list (or the servers you trust... hopefully at least ours)

brave crown
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If you're running anything prior to Alpine/Dash, you should definitely whitelist specific servers rather than the server list

gaunt lotus
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I don't actually know how much better the mitigations are in modern windows (more stuff is sandboxed if you're on Win11 by default, but not that much more on 10) for things like RF specifically

brave crown
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that CVE 10.0 bof is on loading the server list (well, displaying the response from a server you pinged from the server list anyway)

gaunt lotus
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afaik that one was patched in PF at least

brave crown
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actually yeah youre right

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but on 1.2/1.21 definitely

gaunt lotus
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and well the number of people that know any other exploits in RF specifically is almost assuredly a known quantity

brave crown
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for sure, that one I'd be more cautious of than normal though because it's publicly documented with a poc

gaunt lotus
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saber did claim that 1.21 was patched as well

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i think 1.21 has native DEP enabled etc

desert crown
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lol saber

brave crown
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hm - my memory of what he said wasn't that 1.21 had it patched, but rather he had released a patch for 1.21 that patched it. That was an off hand comment like 6 years ago so possible im misremembering tho

gaunt lotus
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worth confirming maybe

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(somewhere, down in the dark pile of things "worth" doing)

brave crown
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in other news, if you've ever wanted to get 133 kills to be rewarded with a pistol, i got u

20250824_131658_dm02.jpg
gaunt lotus
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i put sausages in the air frier and didn't turn it on

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now, 10 minutes later, i still have cold sausages

brave crown
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sounds like you're having a rough day as-is, I'll lower it to 30 frags for the pistol

desert crown
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holy shit gungames about to be lit

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sniper game

brave crown
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lol im porting gungame over to the new dedi config method

also making the config process far less painful

# 
[base.rules.gungame]
enabled = true
dynamic_progression = true
rampage_rewards = true

[base.rules.gungame.final]
kills = 20
weapon = "rail_gun"

[[base.rules.gungame.levels]]
tier = 1
weapon = "scope_assault_rifle"

[[base.rules.gungame.levels]]
tier = 2
weapon = "Shotgun"```
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rather than needing to specify weapon indices (which was a really bad way to do it in retrospect, when an alternative is available - it made sense to me because that was how 09 gungame worked ๐Ÿ˜› )

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and gungame tiers can also be configured per-level

[[levels]]
  filename = "dm02.rfl"

[levels.rules]
  time_limit                 = 600.0
  geo_limit                  = 32
  weapons_stay               = true
  individual_kill_limit = 400
  weapon_pickups_give_full_ammo = true
  
[[levels.rules.gungame.levels]]
  tier = 1
  weapon = "Sniper Rifle"
  
[[levels.rules.gungame.levels]]
  tier = 3
  weapon = "12mm handgun"
  
[[levels.rules.gungame.levels]]
  tier = 4
  weapon = "Riot Shield"```
brave crown
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pushed the ADS dedicated servers to AF master

also fixed a few bugs:

  • Fix NAME has been kicked not being printed to server console when players kicked due to inactivity
  • Fix Advertise AF sometimes sending the wrong advert to players running old Alpine versions
  • Fix inactivity incorrectly being tracked when endgame scoreboard is displayed
  • Fix very niche case where server could crash if gungame is on and a weapon type is invalid
grand ocean
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. Some of us are tech DareDevils, we surf the interwebs with are retro win 95 machines. The most daring of us dont enable are vps nor any antivirus while we do this.

brave crown
brave crown
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Woohoo got loadouts working ๐Ÿฅณ

image.png 20250825_000833_ctf05.jpg
brave crown
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lolpup this is the bare minimum configuration required to launch a server with the new method

image.png
brave crown
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@zinc dew looking into how to allow modders to specify a default position for the third person camera, how do you expect to be able to configure it?

In af_game.tbl would make the most sense, but there's a position and rotation component here. It's easy to allow specifying the position, but rotation is more difficult. Typically OTS TP cameras still point where the player's bullets will go, but I don't see how that's actually possible with this. No matter what, if the camera is moved OTS I think the reticle position will be off where the bullets go :\

Stock behaviour is:
Position: FP camera position + (0,0,-4)
Rotation: Default matrix (rvec 1,0,0; uvec 0,1,0; fvec 0,0,1)

brave crown
fast crescent
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@brave crown Nice work man! I was just skimming this section so correct me if I'm wrong, but with these new developments, would it be possible to do the following in CTF Match Server? 1. Allow normal rail weapon stay in ctfwlproretrob1 while keeping 60 second rail respawn in tesseract etc. 2. Allow all weapons besides rail and baton to be disabled in rail arena, rail fight, wl rail and pirates rail?

brave crown
brave crown
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Being able to run rail maps (with rail-only gameplay) on the same server rotation as non-rail maps (with normal gameplay) was a big reason I wanted to get per-level rules implemented tbh

brave crown
brave crown
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did some work last night to enhance the server's visibility into rcon activity

image.png
brave crown
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very WIP, but this webpage will help server admins build and customize dedicated server configs

image.png
brave crown
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Still WIP so some things may not work perfectly, but most of it is there. If you want to give it a try feel free ๐Ÿ˜›

fallow valley
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any chances there could be zip of alpine faction files next release like how it was previously with DF?

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would be nice for linux, especially with steam and for dedicated servers

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i know if i were to install manually in such a method i would be missing URL associations and that's ok for me at least

brave crown
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Yeah I plan to do that as an "advanced install option" or something like that. Using the installer will still be recommended of course but itll be available as an option

The reason I haven't historically is because the protocol handlers and such wouldn't work, but I plan to just distribute a .reg file with it that can be used to add those if you like

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Tbh, having a zip distribution might also help allay some concerns that might develop from the false positive detections of the installer

desert crown
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think i found a minor bug with cutscene skipping in MP maps

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can click keep waiting and it doesn't do anything

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but i don't think the msg should pop up?

brave crown
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yeah, that is a known thing - has been present ever since Dash originally introduced cutscene skipping (natalie submitted a bug report for this issue in 2021)

Would be nice to have a solution for sure, and I plan to look at it at some point. So minor though that it's not a huge priority

desert crown
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i never got it when i skipped cutscenes in dash?

brave crown
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Tbh part of me thinks cutscene skipping shouldn't be available in MP at all, but that'd be another conversation

brave crown
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It 100% has been present in Dash (and now Alpine) since that feature was introduced, though

desert crown
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i did it 3x in a row right now

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had it 0 in dash

brave crown
desert crown
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well idk what you changed but i never had it on dash ๐Ÿ˜›

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you can check my speedrun for Gru

brave crown
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I have changed exactly nothing to do with that - this bug is as present on Dash as it is on Alpine. I can't say why you haven't personally seen it, but yeah it's there ๐Ÿ˜›

desert crown
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then i don't get it ๐Ÿ˜ญ

brave crown
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It happens occasionally with a cause I don't think anyone fully knows currently

The client presents that message when it hasn't received updates from the server for a given period of time, so my guess would be that the timer fast forward (which is how the cutscene skip works) makes the client think it hasn't gotten anything from the server

desert crown
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i just don't get it

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i swear to you

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ida said something about it if i got it on dash

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๐Ÿ˜ญ

brave crown
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๐Ÿคท could work differently on different maps too idk, but Alpine has changed nothing (yet) that would impact this issue one way or the other

desert crown
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idk how many maps have cutscenes

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i think theres a few

brave crown
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very few

desert crown
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DR2/Gru

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but never happened to me

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once

brave crown
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DR2, Gru, a handful of old maps from TrotSkie and some other mappers

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probably roughly 10 MP maps have cutscenes

desert crown
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well every single RM i ever did with a CS

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nada

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so forgive for thinking its new ๐Ÿ˜…

wraith comet
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But on the other hand, it is nice to not have to watch them if they aren't critical and don't impact anything.

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I do think not skipping them in MP should be default behavior though.

brave crown
wraith comet
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๐Ÿ‘€

brave crown
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๐Ÿ‘€

20250905_115203_kotharenamap1.jpg
boreal ether
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what is koth? oh level creation date goob, dont forget

brave crown
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did you submit that level creation date thing to github as a feature req? if not, could you? ๐Ÿ™‚

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KOTH = King of the Hill coolbeans

boreal ether
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please fix

image.png
brave crown
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Oh do you mean lighting being to the right of save/pack?

boreal ether
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yes

brave crown
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Yeah that would make more sense lol

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Super easy to do, enter an issue on the repo for that though plz (and the other change you wanted - the level save date popup)

brave crown
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+3 personal score to each player who was standing on the point in order to capture it seems fair?

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for comparison, in CTF returning a dropped flag is +1 and capping a flag is +5

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and I need to confirm this, but from looking at the code I think all other players on the team when a flag is capped also get +1? If that is the case, I've never realized it before lol

brave crown
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very, very beta. Currently using CTF icons and sounds, but here's the core mechanics of KOTH ๐Ÿฅณ

boreal ether
brave crown
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I can see the value in something like that, however it would be somewhat at odds with the goal of most improvements in Alpine - that is, the intent is to implement features that compliment and "fit" with what is already available

An ideal circumstance would be if there was no way for someone who has never used the game/editor before to be able to tell what is new in Alpine and what is stock... because it fits so well that it feels like it belongs ๐Ÿ˜›

For existing players/mappers, consulting the changelog would be the best way to tell what's new. I'd also be happy to just tell you if asked ๐Ÿ˜›

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also for the record @obsidian anvil if you have any suggestions on features/fixes for Alpine, or suggestions for how to go about implementing things, please do feel free to share ๐Ÿ™‚

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WIP icons, these will not be the final icons, but the capture fill method to show progress is what I've been testing here

Also need to revamp the bottom left corner team scores pane to be more informative in KOTH, but that's purely a HUD thing so it comes after the core mechanics are working

gaunt lotus
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it's also tough because some of the "new" things are probably things PF had 15 years ago

brave crown
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^that too

gaunt lotus
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i dunno if labeling every post 1.2 thing is worthwhile work

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i guess it would be useful if you were making maps for the highest possible client compatibility

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but... like, i dunno

brave crown
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finally got this working properly

It draws a ring with the colour of the team holding the point (or white if neutral), and the ring automatically scales to the radius of the point as set by the mapper

20250907_022501_koth01.jpg
brave crown
desert crown
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oh theres definitely some CTF maps that naturally fit KOTH fr

brave crown
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100%

gaunt lotus
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this is not one lol

desert crown
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disagree

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perfect middle ground

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?

gaunt lotus
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it's too small

desert crown
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for game night maybe

gaunt lotus
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for anything

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besides testing

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u cant fight on this point at all

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so it will just go to whoever wins mid with fights on the sides

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and then they can push adn dont need to defend the point at all

brave crown
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oh you meant the point itself is too small

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yeah that's true

gaunt lotus
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it's not a cp map

brave crown
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that said, while I agree this map is almost definitely not a good koth map in general, given koth has never been played in rf before, we can't totally know yet what style of gameplay will turn out to be the most fun

My gut says that koth maps will need cover around the point to be even somewhat fun and maps with very open points (like this one would be) would end up very very stalematey. But I've been surprised with maps before so ๐Ÿคท looking forward to seeing what sticks when people start throwing shit at the wall lol

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I think what makes a good koth map is going to turn out similar to what makes a good koth map in Overwatch, but probably a bit smaller because you don't move as quickly

capture points will need cover and multiple pathways into them

gaunt lotus
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i agree that we can't totally know but i can look at geometry and tell you if it's bad in like 15s lol

brave crown
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out of curiosity @gaunt lotus what current CTF map, with 0 changes other than adding a cp in the middle (and loadouts probably) do you think would play good in koth?

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My gut feel is that very few would play well in koth with 0 other changes, but there are a number of them that would play quite well with a more complicated mid area (with cover)

gaunt lotus
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maybe BC or one of the smaller variants/offshoots of it

brave crown
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ironically en masse might actually lol

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the exact issue that makes that map bad in ctf might be a boon for it in koth lol

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(it's still way too damn big for most player counts, but yeah)

gaunt lotus
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well yeah but en masse isnt just bad because all the routes run to one place, it's bad because all of those routes terminate there via totally open doors from long hallways (one of which is a long ass ramp, so gg if you get peeked on it)

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u cant really fix it

brave crown
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yeah true

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I think something like Lijang Tower: Control Center in OW is roughly a template for a good RF koth map

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(this is control center, for anyone reading this who - like me - can never remember the names of the individual stages in OW koth maps)

79dfb488a93f26891a1b39ee230c9624fb7737e7_hq.jpg 7a54079b6b10acc7250f9a5e1d6644902ae76237_hq.jpg
desert crown
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beats me i kno wnothing about OW

gaunt lotus
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control center would probably work pretty much drop in yeah

brave crown
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If I were to recreate that map to drop in, I'd probably put the team spawns in the open courtyard area in front of the spawn ship rather than in the ship, but other than that yeah

gaunt lotus
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the challenge will be that you need to make the bases somehow easier to get out of / safer

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in ow its much more niche but if you can reach the enemy base after taking the point, it will become a test of how long you can spawn kill the enemy team in their base

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OW has movement, shields, etc. which let you get out

brave crown
gaunt lotus
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depends on how much sustain you can have while in the enemy base

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if they spawn with guns that does change things a bit

limpid comet
brave crown
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I'm still unsure on what's best for that (but it's changing 1 bool to change the behaviour, so easy to try both)

The big outstanding mechanical aspect is how to handle winconditions. Currently it just ticks up score, but in most games with koth that I've seen anyway, the score number isn't displayed, it's either a gauge or a timer that counts down, which has an overtime thing at the end if it's contested

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the easy solution is just to keep the tick up behaviour, pause the scoring timer when contested, and then award the winner when they reach X points. It'd work, fully functional, just idk if it's the best method yet

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(just to note, current behaviour is to pause the score timer when an enemy player is on the point only. If the enemy has some capture progress but then dies, the score timer immediately unpauses, even though there is still some residual capture progress which is draining away)

brave crown
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Another open question is whether for example, if red holds the point and blue captures it, if that should go to neutral and then begin the process of capturing for the blue team, or just immediately swap to blue

My thought was that just swapping would probably be better, but not opposed to changing that behaviour either. From memory I'm pretty sure that's how overwatch works too(?)

limpid comet
brave crown
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i think you're right

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and then overtime if it's been contested within a short timeframe from reaching the end of the 3 min counter, maintained as long as they keep touching the point, etc.

limpid comet
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never figured out the conditions for overtime myself but that's probably it

brave crown
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also just another thought about rf koth mapping - I wonder if the average size of maps should end up being ~1.5 - 2.0x a CTF for the same player count, because you typically don't need to go past the mid point in the map unless you're going on the attack to hold a point

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to reach the objective, you only go to mid

brave crown
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for now, I'm going to go with the following scoring method:

  • On capture, +3 personal score to anyone standing on the point at the time
  • Team score +1 every 1 second point is held and uncontested
  • When team score limit = koth score limit, that team wins (default limit is 100 currently)

contested = if neutral, this means at least 1 player from each team is on the point. If a team owns the point, this means at least 1 player from the opposing team is on the point

Scoring method can always be adjusted after playtesting, but this gives us something to actually work with. I just tested, it works great coolbeans

desert crown
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for GN would you have that go infinite

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like CTF doesn't have a limit in GN

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mind u CTF doesn't have a limit

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i think thats an old thing people did but not really a thing in servers atm

brave crown
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idk, have to see what makes the most sense. probably?

We're a ways out from a KOTH GN anyway, there are exactly 0 KOTH maps currently and we'd need at least 14 or so ๐Ÿ˜›

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By the time a KOTH GN is viable, we'll probably all have a better idea of what scoring should look like

desert crown
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๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
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Tbh it would be possible to load Ctf maps and automatically make them into koth maps if they have an amp or something in the middle. Idk how useful that would actually be though since most such maps would have very wide open mid sections and likely won't play the best

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But dynamically making a Ctf map into a koth map is technically possible

desert crown
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mmmmm

gaunt lotus
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so many of them would become basewars but "try to capture mid when you can"

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so they aren't really KOTH at that point unfortunately

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some kinda weird amalgamation

brave crown
brave crown
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I realized that strictly spherical and box triggers were a bit limiting... and control points in most games are cylinders. RF doesn't have cylindrical triggers, so I had to programmatically make the trigger a cylinder when loading it ๐Ÿ˜› but it works well, and now you can properly size cylindrical control point regions

image.png image.png 20250907_232302_kothwap.jpg 20250907_232332_kothwap.jpg
brave crown
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@green cobalt since you were asking

brave crown
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no actual gameplay footage yet since currently no one other than me has played it ๐Ÿ˜› it should be ready very soon though to get a stress test with actual players ๐Ÿ™‚

split sleet
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wow looks cool

brave crown
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went for a horizontal progress bar rather than radial - easier to tell capture percentage at a glance

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also added the name of the hill to the icon. Not super relevant for KOTH admittedly (though mappers could name their point), but part of the modular framework I'm developing to support other control point-based gamemodes in the future

boreal ether
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can you animate the circle on the floor and increase the height to by 2x

image.png
brave crown
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that could be done yeah - the height I want to have available as a configurable parameter (just isn't yet) and the outline is just a texture so that could be whatever. It's literally this currently (coloured by the game)

image.png
boreal ether
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yeh figured it was just alpha set up at the moment

gaunt lotus
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there should probably be an option for square points as well

brave crown
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(ignore how off center the icon is lol)

20250908_224933_koth02.jpg
brave crown
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added the initial owner field - again not really relevant for koth, but for other control point gamemodes

image.png
brave crown
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2 settings:

  • cl_outlineheightscale
  • cl_outlinesegments

heightscale applies to rings and squares, segments just applies to rings

boreal ether
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woah that so cool

brave crown
#

Yeah, I can definitely see some players wanting different height values to balance visibility of the outline with visibility of players during combat

#

segments setting is mostly for performance - 256 segments obviously would be a steeper performance hit than 16, etc.

#

and tbh visually the difference between 64 and 256 is very minor. At least with control points this size

brave crown
#

almost forgot to add this option lol

image.png
desert crown
#

yeah that might help

desert crown
#

So Cryseen noted he can't move his mouse past a certain point

#

on the correct resolution

#

ive no idea why ๐Ÿคฃ

brave crown
#

Huh? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

desert crown
#

i have no clue

#

but his mouse just stops dead

#

right before you hit "misc" in options

#

he can't go past it

#

only in the menu

#

XD

brave crown
#

Uhh o.o make sure direct input is on? I've literally never seen that in RF lol

#

Also make sure it's in full screen mode

#

Window/no border cause issues like that sometimes

desert crown
#

@keen tulip ^

brave crown
#

First very basic play test of koth went well ๐Ÿฅณ a handful of minor issues to sort out but the core functionality is getting really close

brave crown
#

changelog for the past few days worth of Alpine work:

Major features
- Add `King of the Hill` (KOTH) multiplayer game type

Minor features, changes, and enhancements
- Add support for control points as game type objectives
- Report custom gamemodes to legacy clients as TDM for compatibility
- Add `Control_Point_Handler` event
- Add `cl_outlineheightscale` command to scale height of control point outlines
- Add `CPOutlineHeightScale` setting to `alpine_settings.ini`
- Add `cl_outlinesegments` command to set segment count for control point outline rings
- Add `CPOutlineSegments` setting to `alpine_settings.ini`
- Add `King of the Hill` game type selection for `Gametype_Gate` event
- Print vote initiation alerts to dedicated server console

Bug fixes
- Fix DX11 renderer crashing when generating realtime bitmaps
- Fix DX11 renderer not rendering dynamic lighting on skeletal meshes
- Fix static meshes appearing much darker than expected on DX11 renderer
- Fix `r_fullbright` not working properly on DX11 renderer
- Fix `Winner` and `Game Over` sounds played at the end of a match usually being wrong
crude oyster
#

Is it just me or does the new active distance setting in particle emitters not work in listen servers? Seems to work fin in SP and Dedicated server but the emitter never turns off when I do a listen server. ๐Ÿค”

brave crown
crude oyster
brave crown
#

WIP colourblind modes

20250912_192239_ctfwlpro.jpg 20250912_192243_ctfwlpro.jpg 20250912_192241_ctfwlpro.jpg
brave crown
#

@split sleet

20250912_233502_kothcav.jpg
split sleet
#

r_lighmap colourblind modes ?

brave crown
split sleet
#

looks diff

#

ure right

#

thats great

#

fucking textures man

#

what a waste of time

brave crown
split sleet
desert crown
#

@brave crown are these modular aswell? can someone set their own custom "colourblind" variation?

brave crown
#

no

Well, in code yes of course, but not in a table file or anything

desert crown
#

ah

#

cuz i know blue is one a couple of players would want

brave crown
#

"blue"?

#

I'm trying to build these in the same way (useful) colourblind settings are built in other games

desert crown
#

well i know i made blue colourblind scopes for ghost and romek (I think)

crude oyster
#

Noticed something weird today, apparently on a dedi, remove_object turns into slay_object... On my catan forest map in SP or listen server, when it turns from night to day, all the night meshes just disappear like they are supposed to but on the dedi they all turn into debris before disappearing, which causes a loud sound and big temporary fps drop. ๐Ÿ˜ Wonder if that would be fixable?

wraith comet
#

So it always makes me happy to see colorblind modes.

crude oyster
#

Is there any command to have Alpine check for missing models used in switch_model events? There doesn't seem to be any console errors given for missing switch_model v3m's. ๐Ÿค”

crude oyster
brave crown
#

That said there probably should be a message similar to "Failed to load bitmap header for texture X.tga" for models that are called but not loaded

brave crown
#

@crude oyster this should work (I know it's not your map, just the first one I thought of which is missing meshes so I could test the feature)

image.png
crude oyster
brave crown
#

yeah thats not exactly convienient ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
# 
Major features
- Add colorblind mode rendering filter (Direct3D 11 renderer only)

Minor feature, changes, and enhancements
- Print vote initiation alerts to dedicated server console
- Add `reject_incompatible_clients` ADS setting
- Add `r_colorblind` command for configuring colorblind mode rendering filter
- Add `ColorblindMode` setting to `alpine_settings.ini`
- Add `r_picmip` command to set texture mip level offset
- Add `Picmip` setting to `alpine_settings.ini`
- Identify known server browser clients in server console on join and when `info` command is run
- Log a warning to console when trying to load a mesh file that doesn't exist
- Add `-min` command line argument to launch ADS servers with minimal console logging
- Add `-log` command line argument to log full console output from ADS servers

Bug fixes
- Fix Direct3D 11 renderer crashing when generating realtime bitmaps
- Fix Direct3D 11 renderer not rendering dynamic lighting on skeletal meshes
- Fix static meshes appearing much darker than expected on Direct3D 11 renderer
- Fix `r_fullbright`, `r_lightmaps`, and `r_nearest` not working properly on Direct3D 11 renderer
- Fix `Winner` and `Game Over` sounds played at the end of a match usually being wrong
- Fix `Try Avoid Players` behaviour for spawn point selection not working properly```

Recent changes and updates
brave crown
#

some other render mode settings I'm working on. I don't expect these to have wide appeal at all for the record ๐Ÿ˜› Though @split sleet I could definitely see you wanting to run PSX style graphics with picmip and nearest filtering lol

20250916_002157_ctfwlpro.jpg 20250916_002207_ctfwlpro.jpg 20250916_002204_ctfwlpro.jpg 20250916_002200_ctfwlpro.jpg
brave crown
fallow valley
#

pyrovision

desert crown
#

1 ๐Ÿ˜

crude oyster
# crude oyster Also follow up to this, it doesn't appear to do it on the wheat biome, so I'm no...

Follow up to the follow up, it is happening after all, not sure why it didn't appear to do it in my initial test.

@brave crown Anyway to try to fix the issue I used When_Dead--->Set_Debris (left everything blank so should be no sound and no debris) ---> linked to all the Square Plastic Crates I don't want exploding. This fixed the issue, however the set_debris is applying itself to every Square Plastic Crate, even ones it's not linked to... So just to make sure I'm not going insane, made a new blank map with nothing but an air brush and inside is 2x Square Plastic Crates, 1 with a when_dead--->set_debris (with no values set) linked to it, and the other not linked to anything, and sure enough both crates now had no debris.

Am I using this event wrong? Or is this a bug? Or is the event supposed to apply to all instances of a specific clutter in a map and not just the ones it's directly linked to? ๐Ÿค”

brave crown
split sleet
split sleet
desert crown
gaunt lotus
#

stock xhair is the best one

#

aside from a dot

desert crown
#

that little disgustingly easy to lose on a screen green thing is the shittest thing ever ๐Ÿคฃ

brave crown
#

I'm a big fan of the stock crosshairs tbh. The rocket one is kinda shit though

#

though @desert crown your experience is different than mine anyway because you (somehow) play with bighud off

#

The crosshair would be hard to see with bighud off ๐Ÿ˜› (but so is everything else on the HUD)

desert crown
#

even with that on i wouldn't like how feint that green is

#

the PS one is far easier to see IMO

brave crown
#

@green cobalt suggested this and exile might be decent KOTH converts, and honestly I'm inclined to agree

For both, the item and spawn point layout probably could use some tweaking, though

20250916_115809_kothslip.jpg
crude oyster
brave crown
# crude oyster Ah kk

So, unfortunately I have bad news on this ๐Ÿ™ I didn't realize it when I was designing that event (my bad), but all clutter of the same class in the same map share some common properties in the game's memory - including the debris that is to be spawned, etc. I guess when I was testing I only ever had 1 clutter of each class type :\

I know of a way to get around this and let the event set properties for only 1 specific clutter object instance, but it would definitely require a client update to Alpine. I'll put it on the list to do, but I know that doesn't help you out right now of course.

I don't change the behaviour of existing events in new Alpine versions (because that runs the serious risk of breaking existing maps, which I never want to do), but I could add a checkbox on the properties for Set_Debris that says "Only affect single clutter object" or something, and then have it apply only to that one

crude oyster
# brave crown So, unfortunately I have bad news on this ๐Ÿ™ I didn't realize it when I was desi...

Ah that sux, guess I'll need to choose then whether to have some breakable objects but everything explode half way through the game or no breakable objects but no explosion/lag spike. ๐Ÿ˜›

I doubt any map has used that event yet, so could probably change it without issue. However I like the idea where it has the option to apply to all or apply only to linked. Gives a quick fix if someone wants to make all identical clutter do the same thing.

brave crown
#

However I like the idea where it has the option to apply to all or apply only to linked. Gives a quick fix if someone wants to make all identical clutter do the same thing.
Yeah for sure. I would have wanted to allow for both options even if I had known this from the start (I probably would have had the default be to apply to a single object in that case rather than the reverse now, but yeah)

guess I'll need to choose then whether to have some breakable objects but everything explode half way through the game or no breakable objects but no explosion/lag spike.
Unfortunately yeah there are some limitations as of now with it ๐Ÿ™ Though, using the Make_Invulnerable event on specific objects that shouldn't break would be a way to work around it, depending on the use case in the map. If an object is invulnerable it doesn't matter whether its debris is weird, it'll never show up ๐Ÿ˜›

crude oyster
brave crown
#

OH ok I see

#

I wasn't following the use case ๐Ÿ˜› In that situation it might be better to, when you trigger Remove_Object, just keyframe it to a room outside the map and then Remove_Object on a slight delay

#

then it'll still explode with debris but it'll be out of the map so to anyone inside the map it'll look like it just got deleted

crude oyster
brave crown
#

Hmm... I'm curious. I never tried this, but I think in theory it might work?

Have you tried doing this:

Trigger->Scope_Gate (set to client only)->Remove_Object?

The reason Remove_Object behaves like Slay_Object for clients, I would strongly suspect is because it's being removed on the server (correctly), then the server is telling the client that object is dead (but not how it died) and the client is playing the explosion anim with debris. If you could trigger the Remove_Object on the client independently, I'm thinking that may get around the issue where Remove_Object behaves like Slay_Object

crude oyster
brave crown
#

I'd be curious too ๐Ÿ˜› One of those things that I think should work in theory but I have never tried

#

you may end up needing to trigger it separately for the server too, on a slight delay perhaps so the clutter would be dead on the client before the server tells the client to kill it

crude oyster
crude oyster
brave crown
#

๐Ÿฅณ thats awesome!

split sleet
#

peek then meep

#

meep meep

crude oyster
#

Got some homework for you @brave crown when you get home from vaca, something about DM-Catan-Field.rfl causes the GN server version of Alpine to crash as soon as a few people spawn into the map. We tried twice, same result each time. I can't duplicate the crash on Alpine 1.1, so have no idea what the issue might be.

desert crown
#

fwiw i found out the limit was 5 @crude oyster

#

crashed after the 5th person joined

crude oyster
# desert crown

might be a bit higher cuz i was able to play for a few sec b4 the server crashed. unless this is when it came back up in rotation?

brave crown
# crude oyster Got some homework for you <@185856114506727434> when you get home from vaca, so...

Yeah I need to look into this for sure - that said, I did test the map on a dedi with 1 player on this server version before I left and it was totally fine. I'm wondering if the issue is simply tied to player count rather than anything to do with the new server version. Still needs to be analyzed and figured out of course but yeah. Could you possibly do a quick test on alpine 1.1 with 5+ players spawned? (Even if you join the server multiple times)

desert crown
#

after GN was over when it returned

crude oyster
brave crown
#

Im hoping the crash log will tell me some useful info too, but I can't look at it until I'm back

crude oyster
brave crown
#

Ahh gotcha

#

Ok yeah, thanks for testing ๐Ÿ™‚ I will absolutely be looking into this when I'm back

@desert crown do you (or anyone else) happen to remember what was happening in the map when it crashed?

#

I'm wondering if maybe a scripted event was a trigger

desert crown
#

player joined - map crashed

brave crown
#

Oh

desert crown
#

couldn't tell you for the first one, despite having installed the the pack I was still having to install the map on the first one when it crashed so

#

i have it recorded

brave crown
#

Kk

desert crown
#

once i start chopping the footage ill post it here

crude oyster
desert crown
#

also can confirm - on my SS that was after maybe a solid minute of playing

desert crown
brave crown
#

@crude oyster I'm seeing this in the server log when DM-Catan-Field.rfl is loaded

[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkGrass-01.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkGrass-01.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkGrass-01.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-1-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-1-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-3-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-3-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-1-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-1-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-4-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.80] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-4-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkGrass-01.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkGrass-01.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkGrass-01.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-1-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-1-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-3-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree01-3-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-1-Trunk.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-1-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-4-Leaves.v3m'
[5114.81] WARN: Failed to load mesh 'ShapesparkTree02-4-Trunk.v3m'```

is this expected?
brave crown
#

oh I wonder if this crash is the known crash when you shoot at meshes that are replaced with meshes that aren't loaded ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

#

Hm, I mean I really should fix that crash either way, just wondering if that is the same issue

desert crown
#

wait you're home already? ๐Ÿ˜ฎ @brave crown

brave crown
desert crown
#

well god dam

#

i was wrong

#

how does 10:45 sound

#

(likely earlier as u know with SRs)

crude oyster
# brave crown <@447137348162158593> I'm seeing this in the server log when DM-Catan-Field.rfl ...

Wow how did I not notice trees missing between play tests when I had the map alone in the client_mods folder with user maps renamed and when it was in user_maps and able to pull assets from the original map with all the biomes. Even looking now at my screen shots on the file upload, which were taken at different play throughs, some have the extra trees and some don't. ๐Ÿคฆโ€โ™‚๏ธ

I was able to duplicate the crash now by HMGing around where the trees should be on a dedi, so that's probably what the issue was. I didn't know that was a thing.

What would be the chances of getting an alpine build to test with, that has the missing vm3 detector, before I re upload and continue uploading the rest, so we don't run in to this issue again? ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
#

Sure I can send you a dev build to test with, will DM

crude oyster
#

can confirm r_picmip works with dds but oh god it's so ugly lol. Also how come you can't enable AA with dx11? That might be a deal killer for me ever using 11, I like my edges smooooooth. ๐Ÿ˜›

#

Also @brave crown the teleport bug seems to be with alpine 1.2. Everything is as expected in RED. However in 1.1 the goal value is 1 which it should be, but in 1.2 the goal value is 16777216 for some reason, which breaks the goal_gate event which checks for a value of 1 at night. during the day its just a regular goal_check event looking for anything over 1, so that would explain why the teleport didn't work at night but worked during the day.

brave crown
#

๐Ÿ˜ฎ thanks for the research, I will look into it after supper. By that value, it sounds like perhaps a conflict between unsigned/signed int values but i need to confirm. Thx!

crude oyster
brave crown
#

ok so @crude oyster that issue is fixed now. Really convoluted issue but essentially I had a fixed a minor issue with something totally different which I wouldn't have expected anyone to even notice (was just fixing some ugly code I first wrote back when I first started working on Alpine), but an area of the goal reading code had been written in a way that compensated for that minor issue, so when that minor issue was fixed, the goal reading code ended up reporting wrong values because it expected that issue to still be present ๐Ÿ˜›

Either way, fixed now ๐Ÿ™‚ Thanks for the info - I'm really glad we got this one sorted out before v1.2 release, that could have caused some really difficult to diagnose issues down the road.

#

also on an unrelated note, while I was testing this fix, I found a portal issue with Pasture and wanted to mention it to you. I'm 99.9999% sure this is because the door keyframes are set to "Is Door" and are not enclosed in their own dedicated door room

20251013_074934_dm-catan-pasture.jpg 20251013_074943_dm-catan-pasture.jpg
crude oyster
crude oyster
brave crown
desert crown
#

on my hands and knees begging for crouch camera support NOOOO

image.png
brave crown
#

good call, I lost track of that one. It is something I need to put some time into

desert crown
#

every kill this guy took he was crouching

#

at this point im forgiving the RF jank and ima try and slot him in somehow

brave crown
desert crown
#

you know, you could remake this map with a less ctf system and more KOTH design

brave crown
#

@gaunt lotus we talked before about KOTH rules, I'm starting to tidy that stuff up now. Here's what I was thinking as a set of rules at least tentatively:

  • Loadout: SMG with 3 mags, 3 grenades, baton
  • Spawn delay: 5s

considering whether spawn delays should be dynamic like OW and other games (like, if your point is contested you spawn in 3 sec instead of 5, etc.), but not sure yet. Would be simple to implement though

thoughts?

#

(just to mention, these would be defaults - server operator can always change them in the config, or add loadouts/spawn delay to non KOTH modes)

gaunt lotus
#

i am averse to nades being a default here, dont feel strongly about spawns yet

#

c4 would make more sense i think, if any KOTH will have geomod

brave crown
#

on the loadout - I can definitely see a negative to giving nades by default, but if KOTH is to have loadouts it feels like a mistake to me to not include some additional utility weapon. Otherwise it would just feel like a modded server from 2005 lol

#

Ahh yeah mines would probably be better

#

Updated it to 3 C4 instead of nades

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

thinking more on the SMG choice, that can probably start as the default but i have a feeling we'll be just switching it to the AR at some point

brave crown
#

I had 2 thoughts on that:

  • If AR is in the starting loadout, SMG pickups in the map become basically useless (not necessarily a dealbreaker, but I don't know that it's positive)
  • If SMG is in the starting loadout, it provides 2 tiers of tracking weapon upgrades to be found around the map (also not necessarily a requirement, but feels positive)
#

Well, SMG pickups become basically useless except as AR ammo sources I guess lol

gaunt lotus
#

i think on the latter point, it's not necessarily a positive for KOTH

#

it is for the default modes, but i think it's probably not for KOTH

#

like - if capturing the point gives you ARs, and the starting loadout is SMGs, then from the losing team's perspective they need to aggress onto defensive positions with guns that are worse than the other team's

#

if the team that holds the point further gets access to HMG/PR/Sniper etc then it's gg

#

SMG is a decent weapon, but the AR is kind of the "floor" for RF. it's the gun where you can be effective against all other guns, even if it isn't the best gun for a specific scenario

brave crown
#

That is a really good point, and tbh it isn't very common for KOTH games to have weapon pickups at all (I can't think of one that does)

I'm not in favour of going that route with this, but it's an interesting dynamic most games don't have to handle

I guess also - yeah your comment about the floor was what I was going to say

#

You don't need an HMG/Sniper/etc. You can battle those with the AR. It's tough to battle those with SMG

#

as an aside, I'm realizing that the fusion is probably way more powerful in koth than the other modes... that probably needs to be considered inlevel design

gaunt lotus
#

it would be amusing if the map could have weapon spawners lol

#

like there's just some tube that spits out a random gun every N seconds

#

"random"

#

yep, that's the best idea

#

gun tubes

#

ship it

#

no weapon pickups, only gun tubes

#

i'm picturing mario tubes but they like, shoot an AR up

brave crown
#

LOL

#

if dropped items had physics that would look incredible

#

just powerups flying across the map like cannonballs

gaunt lotus
#

i mean they could be off-point

#

and u can make a RED group

#

so that it's somewhat standard on KOTH maps

#

but it doesnt need to be atube or whatever really

#

just some randomized weapon/item pickup event

#

it would need to be able othave some set defined though like

#

random [hmg, pr, sniper, rail]

#

and this could be how you can have just a few "upgrade" areas for players in KOTH, without having fixed items

brave crown
#

honestly, as cool and useful as random items would be as a concept and in some maps, standardizing on KOTH as a gamemode having something that is such a foreign concept to RF like that (and not the most intuitive to teach) feels like it would be raising the complexity of KOTH and risk affecting the approachability of the mode. The fundamentals of the objective I think are already going to be enough for people to learn, without needing to also teach them that items work differently here sometimes too

#

Spawn delay doesn't concern me because it's literally written on the HUD (you can spawn in X seconds) and loadouts don't either because players are used to servers setting their starting weapon already (plus, if they totally ignore the C4 that's totally fine)

brave crown
#

Just thinking out loud here but I'm curious if @gaunt lotus you (or anyone else) has thoughts on this

Powerups and objectives are generally what you fight over in RF. In DM/TDM it's obvious. In CTF, the flags are fought over, but the flagstand is only the focus of the fighting when the flag is there.

In DM/TDM, the powerups are it (well, and positioning but yeah). In CTF, there tend to be less of those points because the focus remains on the flags (on the stand or the player carrying it). Most good DM maps have 3 or more powerups, most good CTF maps have 1 or 2 (and if it's 2, they're usually right on top of eachother on different height levels).

What should KOTH look like? I think this is complicated further by the fact that in KOTH, unless you're either defending against a push from the opposing team, or using it as a connector between different routes, you don't need to care about your base.

Off the top of my head, I think a potentially sensible base design for KOTH could be:

  • Small base which is shielded from the hill, connects the multiple different attack routes that go to mid
  • Base should typically not be a single atrium like most CTF maps, but multiple smaller atria with spawn points spread across
  • Base has a higher concentration of health/armor than elsewhere in the map, far lower concentration of weapon pickups compared to CTF, and no powerups at all
  • Two primary focus areas - powerups or good weapons - slightly away from the point, but between each base and the point.
  • Low concentration of health/armour next to the point

My thinking on that is that if the primary focus areas are between each base and the point, the team with the point would have to battle over that area rather than just sit on the point. Conversely, the team without the point would control that area, presumably their opponent would control the opposite area, and the point becomes the battleground between them

#

Maybe I'm overthinking things, but I'm just trying to conceptualize what a "standard" KOTH layout might look like

#

Perhaps it'd also be worth considering having primary focus area(s) centrally located on either or both sides of the point, but that feels potentially more "snowball-y" where the team that controls the point also controls those

gaunt lotus
#

gotta think about your questions, we should probably chat at some point about this

#

too tired atm

brave crown
#

ye no worries lol it was just a braindump :p

and yeah we should

brave crown
brave crown
#

@desert crown btw that crash you had at GN - it was because the game was trying to look up the location of your spectate camera to play footstep sounds and for some reason the camera wasn't valid... I'm really confused as to how your camera became invalid ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

What happened when the crash occurred? Were you alt tabbed?

desert crown
#

so its still the footsteps thing?

#

no i wasn't alt tab

#

it always happens when im clicking through

#

every week it happens atleast once ๐Ÿ˜…

brave crown
#

I'm thinking it might be a race condition - ie. when you're clicking through players, your active camera is changing each time. Footsteps are calculated every frame, so if the camera is about to change when the footstep function runs, that might do it? I'm going to add some handling so it won't crash in a case where the camera is invalid... but I'd rather know exactly why it happens at all too ๐Ÿ˜›

desert crown
#

everytime its when im clicking through POVs

#

its never on freecam

brave crown
#

yeah that part makes sense anyway - the active camera is constantly changing when you're clicking through POVs

desert crown
#

right

#

my assumption was the camera would be "invalid" because the person im clicking to and the person im clicking on are greater distance than perhaps would be so its dictating the footstep sound as... not there

brave crown
#

I'm thinking the only way the crash could happen would be if the footstep function ran when the camera was in the process of changing

desert crown
#

I have no clue

#

best guess though tbf but ye its kinda irritating it crashes every week

#

only once though

#

which is insane

#

am i just lucky every other click

#

theres a couple of times its happened 2-3 times max but

brave crown
#

either way, I added handling for a case where the camera is invalid, should prevent the crash. Will send you a new dev build to use for next GN and hopefully you won't crash again

desert crown
#

once i get to the spot i crashed ill clip it and send it here

#

you can see the moment it crashes that way

#

shouldn't be to far away kekekw

image.png
desert crown
#

just to be clear - spam clicking isn't necassarily it, its happened when ive been clicking slower before

desert crown
#

oh it did do it twice

image.png
brave crown
#

you probably dont have the crash log for that one do you? It's probably the same as the other one, which should be resolved now

desert crown
#

that is the crash log one

#

its the previous one i won't have

#

since this happened after

brave crown
#

ahh kk

#

either way yeha, it's probably the same crash

desert crown
#

oh yah

#

you noted it was footsteps the last time i sent it

#

so yeh

brave crown
#

I'll get you a dev build before next GN so let me know then if it still happens (and if so, get me a log)

desert crown
#

ill spam click like a motherfucker

brave crown
#

09hioyugh897 ,.

... I dropped my phone on my keyboard ๐Ÿ˜…

brave crown
brave crown
desert crown
#

speaking of run maps

#

@brave crown im not sure if you did anything by accident or anything

#

but ive noticed a distinct lack of issues on other skins that i used to have

#

like in the past you needed parker to run

#

but now i can do it np in nurse

#

theres some maps ill still go to parker (Dark run 2 for example) but thats more for consistency than anything

boreal ether
# brave crown

cant wait to play this game mode, gonna be.. what that word the kids use these days? lit?

desert crown
#

actual lit fam frfr ong no cap

#

it would be nice to be able to mix up the TDM CTF with this once theirs enough maps to suit it for GN

brave crown
desert crown
#

crazy

#

just works

#

maybe i just got better ๐Ÿ˜„

brave crown
brave crown
#

working on a simple blocked out layout for KOTH gameplay testing. Layout obviously very heavily inspired by Lijang Tower - Control Center from Overwatch :p

20251018_115953_kothlj2.jpg
green cobalt
#

but the question mark is a RF pick axe and then weapons randomizing would be so TOUF

brave crown
#

and because it was really annoying me to not have a way to mirror geometry, REDUX can now take a group file and mirror the geometry in that group across a specified axis

image.png
#

doesn't support mirroring object positions yet, but shouldn't be hard to handle that as well after

slow yarrow
#

Top 5 future releases
Next elder scrolls
Next gta
Alpine faction KOTH

desert crown
#

power of 2 map

image.png
brave crown
desert crown
#

uh

#

dm-disco_run.rfl

brave crown
desert crown
#

what about the CPs

#

they are also misaligned @brave crown

desert crown
#

maybe its all the disco runs tbh

#

apart from acers ofc

image.png
brave crown
#

oh @desert crown my bad, it's that the DX11 renderer doesn't support the P2T fix

#

disco run (which does have the fix enabled in Alpine already) renders properly on DX9, but the fix is never applied in DX11

brave crown
#

which is honestly pretty frustrating :\ the "fix" technically is just reimplementing what is effectively a bug in the stock game lol

with the DX9 renderer it's just flipping a switch, but that really strange behaviour of the stock game isn't something the DX11 renderer supports currently, so I'd have to go through and specifically implement it for those levels lol

desert crown
#

I see, sorry ๐Ÿ˜…

brave crown
#

๐Ÿฅณ Alpine servers now support swapping gametype without restarting the server

#

For players running Alpine v1.2 or newer, the process is seamless. For players running older clients, it's not possible to communicate the change to them, so they will be kicked and can rejoin after the map changes

brave crown
#

Alpine also now supports running maps on a server rotation with different gamemodes. So you can for example run CTF on Warlords, followed by DM on High Rise, etc.

brave crown
slow yarrow
#

if heat was still here i would have a joke for him that would make him smile

#

but alas he is not

brave crown
#

heat will return at some point im sure lol

desert crown
#

he's extremely late to the vip meeting

brave crown
#

/vote gametype MODE MAP now lets players vote for other gametypes

#

and sv_gametype TYPE lets server directly set a gametype override for a map

#

gamemodes can also be configured per-level in the dedicated server config

image.png
gaunt lotus
#

goober when he makes it an option

brave crown
#

oh yeah and when gametypes have default settings (currently only KOTH), those settings automatically apply for maps that have that gametype configured in the dedicated server config

image.png
#

(server operator could configure different settings if they wanted to)

brave crown
#

should be the last piece of this (for now anyway), added gametype to the info command output, since it can now be changed

image.png
brave crown
#

an experiment ๐Ÿ‘€

20251023_211536_dcbadlands1.jpg
boreal ether
brave crown
#

So, Damage Control is currently functional, but uses TDM logic for respawn point selection (ie. team checkboxes in spawn point properties, but otherwise normal DM-style RNG)

I do plan to change the DC spawn point logic such that it works more similar to RF:G - prioritize respawn points close to control points your team controls, if your team controls any. I have some work i need to do on respawn points anyway soon (I want to make a functional Modify_Respawn_Point event which can be used to turn them on/off and change teams using event systems), so just going to tackle the Damage Control proximity stuff then

brave crown
#

A map I played this morning made me think of this...

Should alpine have a cvar to not play cutscenes in multiplayer maps?

Rationale: I think it's fair to say that most players don't want to see cutscenes in multiplayer, and whenever one comes on, it's an annoyance

Drawback: technically it would provide an advantage I guess to Alpine clients vs other clients, since they wouldnt have the ability to not play the cutscenes. That said, all alpine and dash users would be able to skip the cutscene on demand anyway, so I don't know if that actually matters. The cvar I'm talking about would be in effect a way to automatically do what they can already do by pressing a button

Thoughts?

desert crown
#

how many DM maps use cutscenes outside of run maps

brave crown
#

dm I know of 1. There are a few CTFs though

desert crown
#

why would ctfs have cutscenes

#

xD

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

since skipping is already a thing i guess there's not much downside

desert crown
#

that map has a cutscene?

#

i don't remember seeing a cutscene last year

gaunt lotus
#

there's an argument that skipping shouldnt have been a thing in mp

desert crown
#

hm

brave crown
# desert crown why would ctfs have cutscenes

I believe some people (trotskie, mainly) used them to kind of give players a tour of the map before they play. That's my understanding anyway, I don't recall ever having asked him

desert crown
#

mmm

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

sure, then don't play a map with a cutscene

#

is the rebuttal to "i dont want to"

#

not "i can skip this"

desert crown
#

just exclude them from rotations

#

is the rebuttal to "dont play a map with a cutscene"

gaunt lotus
#

yes, if you feel that strongly about it

desert crown
#

why would we intentionally force people to have to watch a cutscne in RF mp its 2025

brave crown
#

typically they are ๐Ÿ˜› I can't recall the last time one was in a rotation to be honest (other than the run maps)

gaunt lotus
#

i am not saying we should undo skipping

#

i am saying that this cvar in question is fine because we have already implemented skipping, even though this should have never happened

desert crown
#

disagree cutscenes just ruin getting into the map

#

a new player logs on to COD Nuketown they still don't know how it plays

#

no cutscene to hold their hand

brave crown
# desert crown why would we intentionally force people to have to watch a cutscne in RF mp its ...

the argument would be that it was what the mapper intended, and cutscene skipping does cause issues on occasion where players get disconnected from the server when they skip

For the record I think MP cutscenes are dumb as hell and I'd never have put one in a map, but they were clearly intentional decisions by the mappers

i am saying that this cvar in question is fine because we have already implemented skipping, even though this should have never happened

But either way, yeah I think this is the main point here

gaunt lotus
#

i dont really care to argue this because the ship has sailed, but it was never a good idea to basically write off an entire engine function for MP without considering how it might be used tastefully or an interesting way (puzzle/run maps, weird RED-driven gamemodes)

brave crown
#

^that's where I am as well

desert crown
#

run maps are fine but i just dunno why u ever did it for a DM map xD

gaunt lotus
#

it's just that the content doesnt exist so it's a random casualty

brave crown
# desert crown run maps are fine but i just dunno why u ever did it for a DM map xD

Not to belabour the point, but the one DM I know of (Tenth Chaos Zone) does it to give a sort of spooky intro to the map. A swarm of bats flies through the frame during the camera panning, honestly it is pretty neat from an artistic point of view, it's well done. I don't like the mechanic, but it's about as well done and effective as it could have been

#

It's definitely an instance where I feel that ever having allowed the cutscene to be skipped does take something away from the author's intent with the map. But again, ship has sailed, that decision was made in Dash many years ago

gaunt lotus
#

ok goober, i agree, we need an unskippable cutscene event and a quicktime event

#

press X or die

brave crown
#

On another topic @gaunt lotus any chance you'd be up for doing some KOTH testing? ๐Ÿ‘€

brave crown
#

actually no, a real media format event

gaunt lotus
#

i mean

#

u need mp4 support for textures

#

we need maps with 50mb encodes of full length movies

brave crown
brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

i mean unironically

#

vbms are shit

brave crown
#

100%

gaunt lotus
#

booty buttcheeks

brave crown
#

I considered supporting animated pngs

#

but tbh mp4 is probably just better

gaunt lotus
#

well mp4 is a container

#

u need h264/h265

brave crown
#

sry yeah thats what I meant

gaunt lotus
#

why are you sorry

brave crown
#

and I'm 100% sure there's a solid library I could pull in for that (haven't looked yet tho)

gaunt lotus
#

i said it wrong at first

#

eat shit

brave crown
#

fuck u m8

gaunt lotus
#

give me your timbits

brave crown
#

now i want timbits

desert crown
gaunt lotus
#

im going to the store ltr

brave crown
#

can u go to the koth now

gaunt lotus
#

no i mean

#

im going to the store, ltr

#

but ill be back in like 15

brave crown
#

commas are important

gaunt lotus
#

and i can do whatever for a bit

brave crown
#

kk lol

desert crown
#

can i test koth

brave crown
#

sure

gaunt lotus
#

no, we're tired of english kings

desert crown
#

need pw

#

IM SCOTTISH U RODENT

brave crown
#

LOL

gaunt lotus
#

even if they are only kngs of the hill

brave crown
#

tbh he's probably also tired of english kings

#

being a scotsman

desert crown
#

exactly

brave crown
#

though idk, gonna have to ask mel gibson to weigh in here to be sure

desert crown
#

ill hunt u down

#

gib pw

#

๐Ÿ˜ 

brave crown
#

there is no server yet, you do not have the build, and you do not have the map ๐Ÿ˜›

#

hang on

fallow valley
#

how close are we to new alpine version

brave crown
#

I refuse to give specific dates (because I'm going to miss them), but we're pretty close.

There's not much else I want to get done for Alpine v1.2. I do plan to do a beta release soon though to get some players on the new KOTH and DC gametypes for testing before the full release of v1.2, though

desert crown
brave crown
#

๐Ÿฅณ

crude oyster
#

Was thinking, when DX11 is ready for mainstream, could you up the vertices limit per room or is that like a hard engine limit? I think currently if you have more then 8000 in a room you get the "not rendering room with X# of vertices" console error message and everything appears invisible in the room. Also can be caused by geoing lots in 1 room. Can sometimes be fixed with giant portal splitting the room in 2. Other times that portal just causes a bunch of holes no matter where you put it. ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
#

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I can certainly look into it further

desert crown
slow yarrow
#

name so big it doesnt show up fully

brave crown
desert crown
#

truly an unexpectation

brave crown
#

good news: I can now read uids from mp respawn points, which means togglable respawn points is doable

desert crown
#

sooooooooooooooooo

#

the 3rd idea

#

?

brave crown
#

well thats not the only reason I wanted this lol but yes it will assist with that

desert crown
#

:p

brave crown
#

interestingly, rfl files up to version 67 contained a second string in the middle of the data structure, and I have no idea why

#

the earliest RFL files we have I think are 160 or so. version 67 would have been really early in development

desert crown
#

//hi string here

slow yarrow
#

you should re add the orignal rf launcher sounds when you drag mouse over buttons

#

bring back launcher sounds

brave crown
#

i intentionally made the visuals look similar but left out the sounds because the sounds are very annoying :p

slow yarrow
#

i haven't seen launcher sounds in any games in forever

#

they went out of fashion

desert crown
#

due to being very annoying

slow yarrow
#

there was once game i remember having music playing throughout the cd install

brave crown
#

launcher sounds went the way of autoplaying Linkin Park tracks on everyone's MySpace page

#

and I'm very glad

desert crown
#

im also glad no other SM since Bebo/Myspace have done that

#

i hate being earbanged unknowingly

brave crown
#

156 i believe is the earliest rfl version we have

zinc quiver
# brave crown gamemodes can also be configured per-level in the dedicated server config

Very nice addition, thank you for that! That will be a lot of fun ๐Ÿ™‚
I might be asking too much or it might be too complex, but I am wondering if it can take different server settings into account?

For instance:
Map 1: DM, start weapon: sniper (other weapons would be available to use as well)
Map 2: CTF, start weapon: rail (and have only rail, so no weapons/baton)
Map 3: CTF, start weapon: rail (with baton as option)
Map 4: TDM, start weapon: pistol (one shot one kill)
Map 5: DM, start weapon: pistol (all settings to normal)
Map 6: DM, start weapon: pistol ($Player Damage Modifier: 1.2)
Map 7: CTF, start weapon: fusion ($Player Damage Modifier: 1.0)
Map 8: DM, RUN start weapon: pistol ($Player Damage Modifier: 0.0)
Map 9: KOTH
etc etc

brave crown
#

You will be able to run a rotation with multiple different gametypes, settings, etc. per-level

zinc quiver
#

thats great!! ๐Ÿ™‚ thanks for your work!

brave crown
#

mappers now have the ability to associate specific MP respawn points with a control point. If they do, the respawn point is only available for the team that owns that control point. If the control point is neutral, the respawn point is disabled

image.png
#

(the respawn point should probably never be on top of the control point, but it was a test ๐Ÿ˜› )

brave crown
#

New events:

  • Respawn_Point_State - Works same as all other State events, ie. an "on message" to it turns the respawn point to enabled, and an "off message" (like from an Invert event) turns the respawn point to disabled
  • Modify_Respawn_Point - Change the teams that can spawn at the point
image.png
silk tinsel
#

Total Domination mode on the horizon? ๐Ÿ‘€

brave crown
#

I'm not sure how total domination works, but I went with Damage Control for the multi-cp mode because that's the name rfg uses :p

silk tinsel
#

You know, just like in Unreal Tournament. Capturing enemy bases then turn em into ally basses for spawning.

#

the team with most captured bases wins

gaunt lotus
#

this isn't quite that i think but it could be made into it

#

this is just DDOM, 3DOM, 4DOM, etc

brave crown
#

is 4DOM the gametype where like, each base has 2 control points between the base and mid, and you have to own all 4 points for 10s to win

#

like control points like this

image.png
#

as opposed to them being linear like 3CP or 5CP

gaunt lotus
#

i dont think 3dom/4dom was an actual mode

#

but in UT you had domination (which is basically 1cp/koth) and ddom, which was 2cp but no linear requirement

#

3dom,4dom would be the same thing, just more points to control/hold for some period of time

brave crown
#

ahh ok

gaunt lotus
#

the win condition could be anything - hold both for 10s, hold them for the longest time / match duration etc

crude oyster
gaunt lotus
#

the requirement to capture them sequentially is much more like BF's breakthrough mode

#

i dont think UT had anything similar

#

onslaught was just a bad version of Tribes

brave crown
#

I do think that mode is a winner for RF's gameplay, I'm just a little concerned with how intuitive it would be for players

#

But to your point before, the lift to actually create it is now very, very minimal

#

I think it's the only attack/defend style gamemode tbh that would work well in RF

gaunt lotus
#

the last thing i thought about for your control point modes is that we probably need some kind of HUD element to show the status of each point

brave crown
#

yeah absolutely, that's the only big item missing for KOTH/DC mvp I think

gaunt lotus
#

u have the in-game sprites which are good enough maybe but ideally it would be playable with those disabled and just some HUD element

#

replacing the flag thing

brave crown
#

yeah

#

I was considering either putting them down in the bottom left corner like the flag widget, or else on the far right of the screen. I'd probably have just put them on the far right if not for RF's existing standard for TDM/CTF of the bottom left corner

gaunt lotus
#

i would stick to the convention with the idea that at some point unfucking the hud should be a goal

brave crown
#

on the bottom, similar to TF2 is also an idea

steamworkshop_webupload_previewfile_312118645_preview.jpg
brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

ya

brave crown
#

this is a mockup but I can do something like this (but that looks better) for the quarters like you mentioned

20251026_160129_kothsavb2.jpg
gaunt lotus
#

oh yep

brave crown
#

WIP but maybe something like this

20251026_163012_dcbadlands2.jpg
brave crown
#

idk about the score blocks having a coloured background, it's a lot of colour and it might get confusing at a glance

#

adjusted some of the heights. I think tentatively I'm happy with this. Anyone have thoughts?

20251026_170408_dcbadlands2.jpg
#

non bighud version

20251026_170451_dcbadlands2.jpg
gaunt lotus
#

yeah seems good enough to me

#

def prefer dark bg here

brave crown
#

Yeah same

#

And in the breakthrough mode I'll put a padlock icon on the cps that aren't yet available to cap

desert crown
#

is there a way to drop the CTF hud entirely and go with something more akin to KOTH scoring? we aren't capping flags so idk symbols feel off

#

maybe im just being fussy, i get that team banners are a thing in other games

brave crown
#

I could see what it looks like to replace the flag icons with team symbol icons

#

But I think the universal look has value too

desert crown
#

fair

brave crown
#

no map should have this many control points lol

20251026_191729_dcbadlands2b.jpg
desert crown
#

sir i think theres a map on your control points

brave crown
#

just stress testing the visual aspects lol

20251026_191857_dcbadlands2b.jpg
desert crown
#

what an eye sore ๐Ÿคฃ

#

please try and capture the one floating off the ground

#

manually

#

๐Ÿ˜ 

brave crown
#

the "one" floating off the ground

desert crown
#

I said one i didn't say which

#

keep em guessing

#

๐Ÿ˜

brave crown
#

@gaunt lotus is this what you had in mind for the sprite

20251026_231803_dcbadlands2.jpg
gaunt lotus
#

yea

brave crown
#

sweet

#

yeah it's a lot nicer than without for sure

desert crown
#

yeah thats what i was after aswell

#

% just adds to the overall knowledge

#

% - the line in the sand so to speak

brave crown
#

i was talking about the notches on the sprite ๐Ÿ˜› but yeah the percentage display on the HUD is super valuable as well

#

especially because you dont need to look at the sprite

desert crown
#

nono i mean thats what i mean

#

the notches

brave crown
#

ahh

desert crown
#

% as in 25/50/75

brave crown
#

ye

desert crown
#

i didnt' see the % down the bottom lmao

#

btw - i think they stand out because they look so low res in that spot compared to the rest of what we are displaying now

image.png
#

perhaps if we could HDify the flag png

brave crown
#

yeah im gonna experiment with some different icons at some point, concerned more with functionality currently, changing the icons after is easy :p

desert crown
#

nono i know

#

its just something im noting yaknow

#

do you know what those specific images are

#

i could try hdifying with a blender model

brave crown
#

id probably just remake them tbh, but they're in alpinefaction.vpp

desert crown
brave crown
#

@gaunt lotus the mode you were talking about - is "Breakthrough" (BTR) the best name?

Alternatives I was considering:
Overrun (OVR)
Siege (SG)
Assault (AS)
Breach (BCH)
Revolt (REV)

#

Revolt in particular could be cool perhaps - maps could be RF vs. Ultor scenarios

Siege for consideration because the most similar RF:G mode is called Siege

gaunt lotus
#

hmmm

#

breakthrough is a geomod pun though as well..

#

i dunno

#

i dont like overrun, breach, or assault

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

assault conflicts with legacy maps

brave crown
#

I think Siege might not be the best idea either - yeah RF:G's most similar mode is called Siege, but they are fundamentally different. Capturing points vs. destroying stuff

#

Breakthrough does have a geo pun that I hadn't considered

Revolt is quality too though, I think. And it would help give mappers some direction. The mode would basically be a scenario mode

gaunt lotus
#

i'm fine with either/or

#

rare time that my opinion is not strong

#

those with strong opinions, opine here

brave crown
#

:p

gaunt lotus
#

automation for jira just hit me with 75 notifications

#

nice monday

#

oh

#

another possiblity

#

Riot

#

lol

brave crown
#

My thoughts:

  • Breakthrough (BRT): Association with other games (ie. BF) could be useful to a limited subset of players, though the mode also differs from that so double-edged sword. Geomod pun is A+. Probably would be some confusion between whether it should be BRT or BTH as the acronym

  • Revolt (REV): No association with other games (that I'm aware of), on-theme for RF. Gives mappers direction, helps players associate what they're doing with the gameplay. No acronym confusion whatsoever.

gaunt lotus
#

but not as good as anythiung else

#

obviously it would be BRT

brave crown
gaunt lotus
#

so we can call the mode BURT

brave crown
#

lol

gaunt lotus
#

nobody wants to play BITH

#

REV isnt as good as BURT

#

so that settles it

#

u can say BRT as burt but saying REV is like sticking your tongue into a sponge

brave crown
#

@crude oyster @desert crown @nimble sierra @boreal ether @thorny pumice @slow yarrow @split sleet

(and anyone else who wants to weigh in, of course)

Any opinions on "Breakthrough" (BRT) vs. "Revolt" (REV) as the name for the attack/defend control point/area control game type?

#

@green cobalt @silk tinsel sry missed you

gaunt lotus
#

this is my inherent capriciousness. i was on the fence, and promptly chose a side

split sleet
#

in UT it was called Domination ?

#

and Assault was diff mode too

#

to be frank i dont like both of those names

#

they sound posh/fancy

brave crown
#

Wasn't domination symmetrical?

split sleet
#

they dont have any oomph in them

gaunt lotus
#

ok liq then how about "berserk miners"

split sleet
#

Rape and pillage

gaunt lotus
#

nah i dunno

split sleet
#

yes exactly

#

my thoughts nick

brave crown
#

I'll be honest, I tried to find a punny name that would use the acronym ORE, but couldn't come up with anything lol

split sleet
#

but choosing from those 2

#

breaktrhough is much better

#

๐Ÿ™‚

#

but that acronym tho

#

just BT

#

ohh 3 letter abbreviations

gaunt lotus
#

u lose the brrt brrt fun tho

split sleet
#

for maps ?

brave crown
#

acronym can be 2/3 (or even 4 I guess)

split sleet
#

CP as for Chokepoint

gaunt lotus
#

all the team modes are 3 letter acronyms

brave crown
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KOTH is 4, I'm not trying to make that KTH because everyone knows it as KOTH

split sleet
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xd

gaunt lotus
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well i guess not anymore

split sleet
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but DOM

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domination sounds more

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dominating

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more squealy

gaunt lotus
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yeah but its not the same as dom this one

brave crown
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I'm not doing CP simply because CP is a generic name for "control points" in basically every game ever, and:

  1. All games do it differently
  2. RF will have 3 control point gamemodes, labeling any one of them as "CP" would be very confusing
split sleet
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ohh

gaunt lotus
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we will have koth, "damage control" (which is from rf:g but also basically conquest in battlefield) and some kind of breakthrough thing

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breakthrough is linear point by point with no backcapping i think

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koth is 1 cp, damage control is multi cp

brave crown
#

^correct

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@split sleet because you know Sauerbraten, Damage Control is very very similar to SB's capture mode

split sleet
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BTH > BRT

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but just BT sounds good too

brave crown
#

Honestly, I think Revolt (REV) is a better pick on the whole. Less baggage, more clear in the context of RF (both what to do in the gamemode and how to design for it)

definitely would like other thoughts though if anyone has any ๐Ÿ™‚

silk tinsel
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REV ok i can go with that

split sleet
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xd

brave crown
#

Territory Control I thought was a decent pick too, but ruled it out because I don't want ambiguity wrt what "TC" means (Total Conversion being the other)

thorny pumice
#

Is this different to King of the hill then? I've been away for a fair bit so not kept up to date with development.

silk tinsel
thorny pumice
#

I'll have a recap of the chat once I'm at my desk after lunch

brave crown
# thorny pumice Is this different to King of the hill then? I've been away for a fair bit so not...

3 capture point-based modes:

  • KOTH: One point in the center of a map (closest comparison: KOTH in Overwatch)
  • Damage Control (DC): Multiple points all over the map (closest comparison: DC in RF:G, Capture in Sauerbraten, etc.)
  • <The one we're talking about>: Multiple points aligned linearly. Attack/Defend mode. Spawn points move forward/back as points get captured. No "uncapping" a point after its been captured. Capture points locked once captured and until the gameplay reaches that point (because all previous points have been captured) (closest comparison: Attack mode in Overwatch, Breakthrough in Battlefield, kind of Assault in UT)
thorny pumice
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Why would we not use Assault and a more common name for DC?

brave crown
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I'm not sure what hard point is, and I am absolutely not naming a gametype with the acronym ASS ๐Ÿ˜› but yeah

brave crown
# thorny pumice Why would we not use Assault and a more common name for DC?

DC is DC because another game in the same series uses it (same reason as why Bagman when it exists will use the name Bagman, not another name used by similar modes in another game)

Assault I agree with nick is a bad idea to use for this new mode because historically RF has a bunch of maps labeled as "assault" maps that all work differently than this would, so it's causing needless confusion

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If those maps didn't exist, I could see Assault (AS) being a good pick though. Tbh I think I still would see Breakthrough and Revolt as more thematically fitting though, idk

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off topic but just thinking about it - I'm honestly surprised Volition didn't call RF:G's Siege mode "Revolt" lol

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it would have fit very well

thorny pumice
thorny pumice
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Storm, Bombard, Seige?

brave crown
#

I don't hate it to be honest, it just feels very... generic? And I think the two options we're debating are both just... better lol

thorny pumice
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I'm not sold on Revolt as it doesn't describe the mode in an apt way. Breakthrough does, to some degree.

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Of the 2 options, Breakthrough fits the game mode, but still not sold.

brave crown
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IMO it probably comes down to whether we want a "generic" name for a mode that works mechanically the way it works, or whether want a name that carries thematic weight

thorny pumice
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Blitzkreig? As you slowly progress forward?

brave crown
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I put value on the thematic element of Revolt, I think personally

thorny pumice
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MB Martian Blitzkreig ๐Ÿ˜„

brave crown
thorny pumice
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TBH, If I think about it objectively, taking any prejudices/emotions etc... out of it.

In normal circumstances the correct answer is "accessibility". You make it accessible by clearly labelling what it is, so the name either has to follow a standard "Deathmatch/Capture the Flag for example", or you use a name that is still descriptive of the game play.

"Last Titan Standing" and "Pilot hunter" are perfect examples that describe the game mode. I'd argue you need a name that clearly reflects the mode.

My honest opinion is neither tick the box for Me, despite the reservations around maps using "Assault" in the name, I'd still say Assault is best, followed by Onslaught, Raid, Attack.

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"Frontline control" could work maybe?

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Hang on... Invasion ?

gaunt lotus
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Invasion is not bad, but isn't Breakthrough fairly descriptive in that the attacking team has to break through multiple defensive points?

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i guess we could be really unique and call it penetration

brave crown
#

Thinking about it objectively is key of course, and the only considerations I'm really interested in making are accessibility and precedent ๐Ÿ˜› Precedent being why DC is DC

Accessibility though includes both ease of understanding and reducing confusion

Invasion I am concerned would be confusing because a well-known gametype already exists in a very popular series, which is 100% different from this mode

Onslaught, same issue (and same series :p )

"Attack" I think communicates far too little, likewise with "Capture Point" - they're generic terms used to describe a bunch of fundamentally different gamemodes

The historical baggage of "Assault" concerns me because it causes confusion that could very easily be avoided

My affinity for "Revolt" is because of the thematic link to the series. I think it'd both communicate to the player what they should be doing, and communicate to designers how they should be designing

I do like Breakthrough though, and if we're going straight for the name that best describes the mode mechanically as opposed to thematically, Breakthrough is fantastic IMO. Raid is decent as well to be honest, but I'm also concerned with the amount that term is used in other contexts in gaming in general to mean entirely different things (most notably in MMOs)

thorny pumice
brave crown
thorny pumice
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Oh, UT

brave crown
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UT

gaunt lotus
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i dunno i'm uhhh

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warming up to penetration

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seems like a great idea

brave crown
thorny pumice
thorny pumice
gaunt lotus
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red for sure

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we should keep going, this makes Goober uncomfortable

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and that's always funs

brave crown
fallow valley
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if you need inspiration titanfall names its 3 capture point-based mode as Hardpoint Domination

split sleet
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Penetration

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PNT

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based

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lets do this lads and gals

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In'n'out control objective kinda mode

silk tinsel
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When you penetrate it, you know well it'll turn red ๐Ÿ˜

crude oyster
thorny pumice
desert crown
brave crown
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(score widget is pointless in this mode but I haven't updated it yet)

desert crown
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i think at this point you poll

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your name suggestions

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we can all vote on it

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see which one kicks up to the top

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if theres a tie, drop previous names and only those 2

brave crown
#

I'm only really considering the 2 options at this point, and waiting to hear more thoughts from people - a poll won't really accomplish what I want to get out of this

desert crown
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poll might give you one people prefer ๐Ÿ˜›

brave crown
#

I don't need a poll to gather what makes the most sense to use based on feedback :p

desert crown
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based on readin feedback was unclear sorry ๐Ÿ˜ญ

brave crown
#

lock icons

20251027_171114_revtest1.jpg
desert crown
crude oyster
# desert crown hmmmm IAC is right, Revolt sounds very RF to me, but Nick is also right, Breathr...

When I hear breakthrough I don't think geomod, I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFeUko-lQHg lol

YouTube
The Doors - Topic
Break on Through (To the Other Side)

Provided to YouTube by Rhino/Elektra

Break on Through (To the Other Side) ยท The Doors

The Doors

โ„— 1967 Elektra Entertainment Group Inc. for the United States and WEA International Inc. for the world outside of the United States

Audio Recording Engineer: Bruce Botnick
Mastering Engineer: Doug Sax
Lead Vocals: Jim Morrison
Drums: John Densm...

โ–ถ Play video
desert crown
#

@brave crown sent a report your way

brave crown
#

its easier

desert crown
brave crown
#

what was happening when this crash happened

desert crown
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i was playing the game

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ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

brave crown
#

but what were you doing in the game lol

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did a map just start? were you spawned? etc

desert crown
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walking forward and dying and respawning and walking forward and dying

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like

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i was playing the game XD

brave crown
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hm

desert crown
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map was near to over anyway

brave crown
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it looks like it crashed doing a line trace of a mesh

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dx11 or dx9?

desert crown
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idk i never change it idk how to change it

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oh

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options

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Direct3d 9

brave crown
#

working a bit on the visuals - faded outlines for locked points. When they become active and available for capture they glow white like normal

20251027_223858_revtest1.jpg
nimble sierra
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Sick

brave crown
#

minor update

20251028_002737_revtest1.jpg
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removed the score counter in the bottom since this mode has no "score" for teams, and added "Attack"/"Defend" to the icon for them as a directive

brave crown
#

last piece of this I think - only draw the icon through level geometry for the currently active point. Not the locked ones

20251028_005641_revtest1.jpg
green cobalt
desert crown
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it would depend on the maps made for it tbf

brave crown
#

The game type does not inherently involve geomod, no. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if a "standard" map for it would. Mechanically all the game type requires is a linear progress of X capture points. Can be as few as 1 (not recommended), or as many as 32 (also not recommended lol). Expecting a "standard" map for it would probably have somewhere in the realm of 4-6

From the general feedback and consensus, at least for now I'm going to go with "Revolt" - can be changed after (before Alpine 1.2) if there is a need, but I do think that's a name that has a lot going for it

And all the mechanics are done now ๐Ÿฅณ capture flow, unlocking, moving spawns, and game end conditions

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this is how a mapper configures it. the Stage parameter specifies this CP's placement in the progression through the map (0 - 31)

Spawn points that are linked to from the capture point handler are associated with that point, which means:

  • in KOTH/DC: When the point changes teams, the spawn points are updated so they only spawn players of the owner's team. The spawn point is disabled when the point is not captured
  • in REV: Spawn point team never changes, but spawn points are disabled while that point is not active. When the progression moves forward, spawns associated with past points are disabled, and the spawns associated with the currently active point are enabled
image.png
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@shut vector ^ for reference

shut vector
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I am absolutely loving this!

brave crown
desert crown
#

FWIW I can absolutely see a topside normal gavity version Europa for this

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1 on either side of the bridge and 1 in front of each bases door

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maybe some modifications to fit the gameplay but the europa layout fits naturally to this i think

image.png
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maybe even have one central

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also maybe an edited score with a more streamlined design ?

image.png
brave crown
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I could see Score working if you deleted half of the map and designed something new. The Score base would be decent to defend/attack, I think, as the end stage(s) of the map. But you'd need to create something new for the earlier stages (maybe something more open, since the existing Score base is pretty cramped and dense)

desert crown
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Also i know i mentioned AoW when we were discussing it the other day and i still think all things considered, a modified streamlined version of that aswell

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just trying to throw ideas out there to help get some maps into the thought process so we have something soonโ„ข ๐Ÿ˜›

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Honestly if acer was open to it maybe Mafia Town could work aswell

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bases are in the buildings you could have points littered around the street

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i wonder if that would be more DC than Revolt though

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as dumb it sounds i can also see this working LUL

image.png
brave crown
#

I think (as nick said yesterday) there are a fair amount of TDM maps out there that would convert very well to DC. Probably some of the CTFs that have less defined base/mid sections (like Mafia Town) too

desert crown
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i havn't played TDM since 2016 so idk the maps that were designed specifically for that instead of regular dm ๐Ÿ™

brave crown
#

Well there aren't that many maps designed specifically for TDM... by TDM maps I mean the larger DM maps that aren't just big open rooms ๐Ÿ˜›

desert crown
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ah ok gotcha XD

brave crown
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Red Institute, Grey Matter, a handful of Kerpal's newer maps, Europa, Devonian World, etc.

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(just the first ones that come to mind)

desert crown
#

Hm

brave crown
#

I think REV will be by far the hardest mode to convert existing levels to work in. Just because most maps in RF are either heavily interconnected arenas (most DMs/TDMs) or are symmetrical with bases (almost all CTFs)

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There are some Assault maps that might be workable to REV ironically ๐Ÿ˜›

desert crown
#

and just so my previous recommendations/ideas don't sound utterly stupid

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Revolt is the one where one team has to fight and get all points to win

brave crown
#

All the RFU7 maps for example, Air Assault, there are a few others

brave crown
#

@shut vector 's Overlord too tbh could be converted to REV with minimal work

desert crown
#

what about RF2 maps

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im sure some of them could work post-conversion

brave crown
#

probably

desert crown
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TBH

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and this might be an absolutely rediculous stretch

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could some SP maps be converted to suit

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like

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if you took the loading zones out of med labs for example

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and converted it to a DM style

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from like - where u'd come out the vent all the way to the elevator

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i mean its a stretch but just an example ๐Ÿ˜…

brave crown
#

I look forward to seeing what other mappers do with these modes ๐Ÿ˜›

Personally my plan at first is to construct something for each which is basically a showcase of what was intended with the mechanics, etc.

After effectively a template exists, getting creative with alterations and remixes on existing maps becomes way easier ๐Ÿ˜›

desert crown
#

sure sure

brave crown
#

I could see some SP layouts working (with edits) in REV for certain

desert crown
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yeah with edits is what i mean ye

brave crown
#

docking bay for example, I could see it

desert crown
#

๐Ÿ˜

shut vector
desert crown
#

Geothermal could be a DC map with edits

shut vector
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What will be the maps prefix for these kind of maps? Wont be CTF anymore.

desert crown
#

KOTH/REV/DC i imagine?

brave crown
#

Something like geothermal would require more extensive edits IMO because all the chokepoints are very cramped doorways (and 1 doorway per room), but it could work

brave crown
shut vector
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Any of the 3?