#avatar-ideas
1 messages · Page 348 of 1
Sounds like good inspiration for designing and deciding what to call our designers of course @quick harbor
I meant female lol
just removing the outlines
oh lol
the female shirt is finished
i was waiting to you vote for color of the hair
Finally someone addressing our off topic discussion xD
lemme see the results...
👀
Finally someone addressing our off topic discussion xD
ikr xD
Off topic discussion? Where? #avatar-ideas message
we have mouse for reason
the 6th one won - light brown
hmm
but nvm
i think it was worthless for voting tbh xD ||sryy||
because i saw the one that I like xD
rip
well then
@gentle lily it's alright ^^
so u prefer dark brown
light brown looks good
im camping cuz in 1 hours time its national day at sg
cuz from WWSG (made it too obvious)
I like the first one the most 
i like the last one
Now I want to design 😸
why would u
just finish the shape and shadings then rechoosing color later
shes not gonna shade 9 times
nooo
she had 9 options
use black with low opacity and clipping
well that works
btw is my nickname the same
what is your ni-
ID_X_WWO
||Btw my first guess is Eugene @timber mural perhaps I'll limit myself to one guess each day||
@mortal geyser nope
I'll try again next time uwu
uwu
bewlie does your name start with b
btw now im not ID
no
that hurts
Wow
xd
Betrayal
i chose b because b best letter
can tell
can u send a link to dat message
i will just sec
Betrayal
@mortal geyser fine
i deed fairly well in vote
I was scrolling for it for 3rd time, it took a while
@gentle lily you can search up
from:Taryara#8445 in:[#avatar-ideas](/guild/414179354814185498/channel/426721136701603840/) has:image
The number thingy is supposed to be #avatar-ideas
yeah ik :/
I go by many names
Oml i hate those hairs😩
Probably- 
1,2 or 3?
Is it just me? Or should the boy's lashes be thinner?
The hair just colored, I'll add shadings and highlights later, is it good?
Thoughts?
The hair just colored, I'll add shadings and highlights later, is it good?
@gentle lily seems pretty messy
Thoughts?
@hot copper the top of the flower (petal part) seems placed a bit weirdly but it's nice
👌
Myb it's better like this?
i like the 2nd more
All thanks to Peachy this skin looks sooooo much better
Any fb tho?
(ill erase the random lines
peachy pro
ye ye
also if someone tells me to add more shading.... I dont even know, JUST TELL ME WHERE AT LEAST
Id hair supposed to go in front of the snowman? Or behind...?
Oki thanks
yea
@hot copper I don’t really like the grave, it’s kind of confusing. This is just an idea, but I think it would be really cool if the grave were a butterfly finned in a box, like the ones in museums. And it could have scribbles saying like the name and type of butterfly, but just scribbles. And the photo shows a a lot of butterflies, but I was thinking just like one, or two(the female and male monarch butterfly)
Ooo I like that idea
@hot copper and could you maybe make the butterfly on the necklace black? So it stands out more from the shirt. Just a suggestion.
By using a drawing/designing program and creating them :D
What the program called?
Well that’s your preference. There are a few pinned in the pinned messages
Ok thx
@blissful marlin it doesn’t matter if you are good at the beginning. All that matters is having fun and getting to know some people that do the same. :D so don’t give up.
Ok sooo I'm considering giving up the necklace: yes or no? Basically the question is yes take the necklace off or no dont
That’s ibis paint
Cute
@hot copper i prefer the avatar with necklace. Try Adding some shade/highlights in it
Hey u can use this as reference to start drawing face @dull swallow
Ok another question: 1 or 2?
@dull swallow there is a similar blind fold in game already. Kindly remember not to draw similar to it. When u r drawing shirt, try not to draw over the skin outline. It will look good when shirt is little loose/big
I had an old skin but now I loosed it
final fb plz
Awww, why did u ditch the necklace?
I honestly didnt fancy it too much. :/
I thought it was cute
try necklace with another shape n maybe color too
the previous necklace rly doesnt fit stands out smh
That's what I thought
I thought it looked good back when it was silver
Oh, I should actually try silver (the other one was a bright white with a tiny bit of shading
@pure rivet oh, ye I'll fix that😅
Thank you :)
i have so many layers im so confused xD
Ok, this is not even related to my butterfly avatar, but question. Are vsco girls copyrighted?
u gon make a VSCO avatar!?
And what I mean is their clothing style
:0
i made one but gave up xD
dont forget the hydroflasks sis
oh, I wont skskksksks
it's not copyright i think so
Ok, good to know
wwo #avatar-ideas, making dead memes come back to life
👁👅👁
???
@hot copper yayy
Heyo
Back from playing the game i am now addicted to
I'm gonna work on a new skin and ditch my other ones since they r bad
wynaut... am I right?
Aight, this is my final version unless theres more feedback
The hair is not in wwo style 👀
The idea is very nice
but the hair doesnt fit the wwo style as Maud said
.start
!play
Uhh
Hmm
Wait, what do you guys mean exactly?👀 how would I make it look more like the wwo style
@worthy moth @quick harbor
Read pinned messages and wwo style if you haven't already
I have and I followed every rule :/
Ahhh... I d k
I think the hair is pretty good but maybe they mean use less small details and thin lines but more shapes
Also the hair is fine and there are different kinds of hair in game
Its so cute 
👁👅👁I edited this message>:)
Dou.
@hot copper how would it look if the necklace chain were also silver?
I really like the grave 😋
Is the butterfly on the mouth gonna be a mask or a mouth?
Detalied stuff is allowed??
I like it silver 🙂 , maybe make it a mask? So you can put creepy mouths underneath? @hot copper
Detalied stuff is allowed??
The hair has too many graduations
Details is a hard topic because it depends on different things
I heard that these things aren't allowed but when I'm looking at that hair it's almost realistic
Especially on the girl's one
It is worked out with 3 different colors and light 👀
It's still detalied
Not really
Whatever ig :/
What about this then 🤔
Fb? I'm making potential aura seer skin-
@native moss ooo, I like your idea with the mouth thing x)
@quick harbor Its really cute
However, it needs more details/shading for the shirt and possibly make the shirt bigger. Also, I think the eyes are too large
Mk
@quick harbor I think the hair needs more volume
What isThe difference?
The outline's kinda crooked-
I like the darker one
Yea
Oki, thanks you for ur input
@dull iron btw, I mean that one side has thinner outline
Oh
Like, you duplicated the whole avatar and just made it bigger
The simplest method to make the outline is with a thingy
A thingy?
Yeahh wait up
I think the way the head pendant hangs is weird, I recommend making it more like this
Not sure if I should send the explanation here or if I should dm you how to xd @dull iron
@mortal geyser i need to know, either way is fine
Thank you for hellppppp
@native moss im too far into the design , its gonna be such a pain to change it, ill try it this ;^;
Yeah same thing pretty much
meep finally has a pfp
@dull iron ok
Yeah it's good ty
@hot copper this butterfly is bugging me, maybe change the shading?
Wait a sec, I’ll show u
Kk

ibis
thnx mweep💜
Sooo I’ve changed the foregrounds and backgrounds...
Did my messages load? I don’t see them but it said they were loading >.<
Nope
Okay so before then after ~
one day it’ll come
i only see the loading screen for pics
Maybe
its not bad
Are the new items better than the original? I personally like it more this new way but I’d like your opinions 😅
It’s all up to you
Looks gud
But uhm I like the first one better😔
i like the second one better
@halcyon forge Imo I'd keep the girl avatar the same and just give the boy the new girl's fg item and keep his bg
Thats just my opinion though
||Ripp me|| Thanks I appreciate it!
1 or 2? 1 has no white hair lines while 2 does
This is 2
Just heart the one you prefer :D
Do white hair lines but maybe turn opacity down a little bit or use a darker or lighter version of the base hair color
Did you mean this combination?
@halcyon forge yea!
Thanks!
@halcyon forge like this?
Oki tysm
oi
@quick harbor hello, need help with anything?
yes
How may I help you?
very professional
Fb?
Looks awesome!!!
Good compromise 
I’m honestly really proud of it uwu
U shld be 👍
Me too 
Hm it must be sth related to dragonsss
Dragonic Witchcraft or Magic
?
t a m e r s o f t h e w i n g e d s e r p e n t s
The word dragon is used so much, gotta be creative y'know? XD
XD
Well you’re a lot more creative with names than I am lol
I wasn’t going to submit it to bp tbh
Ah, was about to include wyvern to a name idea but I don't think they're wyverns xdd
well it is a mythcal creature so I think it pass for magic
Oh I thought u were hence my name suggestion
t a m e r s o f t h e w i n g e d s e r p e n t s
@mortal geyser this wld work imo
It does have the magical things so maybe u could try submitting for it and try submitting next time as well for non-bp? :3
Well, many great designers are submitting 3-7 pieces for bp so 1. The chance this would get in is low and 2. I guess it’s just me but I don’t think it goes with the theme they’re going for lol
But it’s so niceee
Well yeah there's not much "magic" other than the creature
U cld try submitting it for both bp and non np like what meep said
Yeah I want the horns 😐
I suggest #avatar-ideas message
Well yeah there's not much "magic" other than the creature
@edgy schooner creature and male staff thingy
Yess
Yeah
@halcyon forge I see outlines...
Add sparkles so it'll seem more magical
Tbh in one of my designs I exaggerated with sparkles so please forgive me
Sorta
Is the black outline shading @halcyon forge?
There is no outlines 🤔
U can try to submit for bp and if it doesn't go through you can submit for something else next time too? Can she? @mortal geyser
Ohh it’s not a part of the actual design it’s so it doesn’t blend in with the background
To differentiate from bg
Ah! So it's just so it doesn't blemd with the bg?
@severe palm yea
Ah! So it's just so it doesn't blemd with the bg?
@worldly lynx yup
Ah, so guessing the outline won't be visible ig?
Ah, so guessing the outline won't be visible ig?
@worldly lynx yes
Alrighty then
It would look like this ig
Is the head necklace thing part of the hair or hat @halcyon forge
It's hat
Uhhh
My emotes istg
Glasses 🥴
I don't know
Haha
there's a thing like that in current bp and it's a hat
Glasses 🥴
@halcyon forge Would fit better as a hay
Since halfway through I forgot I made horns too and it looks better with the forehead thing
But wouldn't it better to be separated from the horns?
@edgy schooner
Hat is the horns
@mortal geyser yeah I agree
Put horns as hat and necklace thing as glasses
Hats-horns glasses- forehead thing mask- scales on face and the necklace goes with female outfit
But putting it in mask doesn't fit.. you know what I mean?
I believe the necklace thing is called a diadem?
Ah yeah Glasses category will fit in
I think so??
Heard it from April uwu
Gd english I cannot keep up
Mood
diadem 
English is my language and it’s still hard to use pfftt
Lol same
Hahh
I can’t type for jacksquat
@edgy schooner like a crown?
@halcyon forge it's dragons, yes?
Wait, I believe the girl has an elven diadem
Yep!
Ohhh
Idk just search it 🤣
Okey
See u!
Cya
I suggest the 'Rip' as fire then @halcyon forge
Oo I can try
Yeah add cosmetics to 'rip'
Question: is there an ice queen avatar ig?
Okay!
Idk @oak elk but I think there is ice themed outfits
Ye

i give up
what happened
Is it a dino?
dragon
my art succs
i did
any fb for my dragon
it still succs
Then more
no nom more please
Have you made anything recently that we can see?
me?
Lol
ok
give up = noob
No u Apreel
I dont post my stuff in here anymore 
):
its a sketch
Okay sketch is good
i gave up
It's cute!!!
its looks bad tho
seems possible
That's not bad
I dont want to be the person to point out that it already exists but
and the outlines looks off
Something very similar is ig
i know
Good try
I always start something and then realize its already been done
what
A lot of the time I start making a design and then realize it's already been done by someone else
lol
Hi solly
Hi


Accidentally tapped the typing thingy as I was lurking 
solly
Yes?
is my sketch bad
how make dragon more detail
Not at all
any criticism
the hand doesnt look anime
@hearty falcon shading maybe? The face doesn't look like a face rn
i gave up on the right one
As it's a sketch I can't really criticise it @tulip siren
the dragon?
Yess
feedback?
I thought dino too
It reminds me also of another creature I don't remember the name of and I also can't describe
But it's adorable
i wan real sleep now
What interests you vaguely? @tulip siren
blood @severe palm
Ok blood magic for battle pass is quite an idea
ok ill try
Or it could be for non battle pass too good start
And I meant no u thicc @smoky nacelle ...
ok
u can borrow my wings
me?
if u do blood magic
no thanks i have an idea
Mk
hair nor smooth
Ik
gradiant is there
And no
but u are on the track to success
but dont use too much, pink - light pink - white are enough
Eyes too big?
more detail
Looks cracked
Is it lava?
i guess
@quick harbor the highlights are also mirrored and the bow kinda blends with the hair
mk
Eyes are still kinda big and too close too each other, looking cute tho
owo coloring time any color u reccomend
Eyes are too big
@twin scaffold gradient not allowed
Where?
@tulip siren is that a sketch for ur avatar
Eyes are too big
@rough glade I guess is good
@twin scaffold the marks on cheeks and highlights on eyes are gradient
@twin scaffold #avatar-ideas message
Read this
I suggest to read all guidelines before starting
Also there r outlines..
Ok I realised there's a lot-
I saw 1 thing hahaha have gradient in only one eye hahaha
The left eye
But I thought that is shadow
Still gradient
on paper is much easier
1 or 2?
The shading is not very evident
Wdym? 
means we cant see the shading
Hood or horns
definitely the hood 👀
It is looking awesome already
@tulip siren is that a sketch for ur avatar
@thin terrace yes
hood
Is it better now?
hood
hairline is too low
@tulip siren nice.. what is the theme
I also added more shadings and highlights
@rough glade hood reminds me of invisible cloak from Harry Potter because magic
@gentle lily of course
😸 I would've chosen option one as if the hair emanates light
@thin terrace blood magic if you would've scrolled up a bit
Hi
Hello @stuck bronze hello hi
"You do not have permission to attach files"
Yes need at least level 1
You have to be level one with mee6 to get the permission, chat a bit and you'll get it.
reeee
i have a sketching on Picarts :( but i think its very bad
what other fg should i make
Nice show I'm sure it's good
my hand is better
@stuck bronze heyy, no need to bring yourself down! I'm sure it won't be bad at all
but how do I get to lv 1? :(
You just chat around ^^
oh thanks
Ah nvm you already are level 1
Oooh looking pretty ^^
Unfortunately some things are not following the guidelines
Read up the pinned messages @stuck bronze
Well, they are placed a bit too low
there is gradient :/
Btw, I was hinting at no outlines or gradient allowed
yeah
maybe I will study in more detail
I've been using goodle translation , so there's something wrong with your understanding
PC:
Click on the little pin above the top right corner of the chat
Android:
Swipe to the left or tap on the three dots in the top right corner and then tap on Pinned Messages
iOS:
Tap on the channel name at the top of the screen or swipe to the left and select Pinned Messages from the dropdown menu
Lol
Because my English is not very good :(
Ok
No
it's fine
my wwo ingame is Yanny_____ , addfr and play with me if u have free time :p
How to type the = part don't know 😹
For male verison: I wanted to place hair like this, but it won't fit because of the shirt, what to do? :< To change hair or it's okay like this?
How would the hair not fit? Seems to fit well
Well, because hair is kinda fancy, but the shirt is kinda.....how to call it....un-fancy ||
||
Oh I think it matches well all is fancy :>
Okay :D
It's up to you if u want to choose a different hairstyle
I'm not sure are the shadings and highlights okay.... 
Of course 🙂 Tara playing The Elder Scrolls
@hearty falcon cuute! The dragon from front looks like type od dragons in Dragon Mania Legends 
Of course 🙂 Tara playing The Elder Scrolls
Lol that's my sister playing on my laptop
Oh lol
@hearty falcon i think u should keep the same foreground if it is just the same thing flipped around to save space in game
Should I keep the mouth?
Okieee
Very mysterious void but is totally outlined
@severe palm indeed it is, it's just a guideline, dw I'll remove it
Just making sure lol
Dw
@hearty falcon
I still have no idea what other design I can put on the shirt tho
Shadings
There's some, a little invisible tho..
But any ideas for the design? (Theme is hate)
Oh that's a very identical copyright claim to Dragon Legends @hearty falcon maybe...you should try to make the shapes a little more different
Should I add a black outline at the eye?
👀
@quick harbor TERKA
@worldly lynx not exactly outline but yeah, you could add 'eyeliner'. Btw, I think they're placed too high as of now.
@worldly lynx I think since the mouth is inhuman you should make the eyes something like a fiend of hate or something along those lines and not human eyes
I flat coloured this but as I look at it, it seems like a familiar hairstyle.
Does anyone know if someone made something very similar to this already?
nou its epicccc
You shall not steal this because
Uhm
Because I'll be sad
Yes
Very good and valid reason for you not to steal it u.u
I think it's original lol
doodles owo
Good reason
Does that spell OCD? And what is it pointing towards? @tulip siren also it looks like it's off to a good start
Hmm
and by the way what actually wrong with your phone @tulip siren
😹😹😹
i thought it says red
O yeah 🙂

Ok time to get every global emote
Does that spell OCD? And what is it pointing towards? @tulip siren also it looks like it's off to a good start
@severe palm red
i thought it says red
@vernal drift youre right yay
and by the way what actually wrong with your phone @tulip siren
@pure rivet it wont charge
Oooof
are you using phone to text?
@tulip siren meep is asking what is the red pointing at
@tulip siren meep is asking what is the
redpointing at
@mortal geyser i tried to do a halo
owo
i tried to make i t all red
but it succs like my talent
I still haven't send Mr. Egg button
||others: yes, keep it like that||
Mask update: With broken horn or not?
---> left side
The eyes of the mask might be a bit too high, or maybe the whole mask is
i'd make mask eyes further a bit
yes yes
||déjà vu||
@tulip siren ohh good idea blood dripping from the magical halo 🙂
@tulip siren ohh good idea blood dripping from the magical halo 🙂
@severe palm thanks
@gentle lily is it possible to change the canvas color
its hard to see
You just had deja vu? @mortal geyser I haven't had that in a very long time
Ok
Ok... 🙂
Saw what?
why dont u lower it to see the whole eyes
I guess 3 makes the most sense and covers the eyes the least, love it 🙂
why dont u lower it to see the whole eyes
because there are some skins that eyes are more up than usual
just some
taryara please change the canvas color
Maybe true but I guess it doesn't matter too much
Here you go @tulip siren 
Or you could make the eye sockets of the mask larger eh? Eh?
you can make mask eyes bigger a bit like this
😸 but it's fine as is if u don't want to love
owo how did u complete the bps
Wow I wish I had that mask how did u get it?...
battle pass

i forgot which season
I only participated since last bp...
oof
:feelsbadman:
@pure rivet yes u
@tulip siren 2 months is a long time to finish yk
owo how did u complete the bps
@tulip siren everyday earn 1000 gold from gold wheel
me sooo lazy to spin xD
The only BP i didnt participate is 1, 2, 3 and 11.
I ONLY GET 100 EVERYDAY
@tulip siren tbh idk
I completely regret for the 11
It's pretty easy to do the gold wheel while multitasking
Wow much better than me @gentle lily ...
the only bp i didnt participate is 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 11 12 what was 13
u have 300 ads to watch each day, and also depends on many things else
I need to buy an olde account
I came around the Greek BP
me didn't participate in ss1
I joined WWO 3rd August 2018
came back at bp 10
LOL> :GWaobloChildPepeCry:
@pure rivet
after that i took a break
Idk why I didnt celebrate the anniversary for 2 years of playing WWO
then i come back at the candy bp
then i come back at the candy bp
Me too
What happened for the anniversary?
Idk why I didnt celebrate the anniversary for 2 years of playing WWO
@gentle lily dk too but there is a anniversary quest
I joined wwo less than a year ago
Well my current account was my sister's
ban
Lol
xD
AND MY ACC WHEN I WAS 11 i forgot its pass
You weren't allowed to be there 
You weren't allowed to be there :GWomoRaphiOhMy:
@mortal geyser 😰 im definitely not 9
I use gold to buy rose bouquets for rose party server so I can buy avatar slots. I regret rose trading and wasting gold on the battle pass.
Ood
Oof*
I finished BP about 1-2 weeks ago lol
Because I was buying every day 14 tiers
Rip
You have all avatar slots already and finished rose wheel?
When I play whole day, I almost do 4 tiers
yes
You have all avatar slots already and finished rose wheel?
No
I'm collecting 1000 coins everyday to buy all tiers
rose wheel took me ~14k roses
Oof
Then u shouldn't waste gold on the battle pass LOL i spent around 5k on it
okay now I really send in Mr. Egg button
okay now I really send in Mr. Egg button
@blissful temple goodluck Anne

Glorious Omelette Annelette

thank youuu
he will be in vote anyways
100%
My first skin that got on vote was The Fire Summoner
He will
Glorious
Most certainly
Well
It might take a bit tho
why wouldn't he get in vote
Two of my skins didn't get on a vote
No way
@gentle lily pretty sure you gotta wait
Maybe u can redo/retry them?
Because it was messy and eyes were too high. These were reasons because I was noob at designing
And I remaked the skin and sent again for vote
I guess it's much better now
Oh well, I find it a tad obvious if they asked you to remake it or smth
Anyway I want to thank everyone so much for all their help with Mr. Egg button. I couldn't have done it without all your feedback and examples. I've never made a skin and I now made something I'm actually pretty proud of. Thank y'all so much❤️
I can send SS of DM but i think it's against the rules idk why 😅
my first skin i made is prettier than skin 2, 3 and 4 smh
Lion's den
Usually all finished outfits that don't need major feedback get in #dev-vote
@pure rivet showwww
🤔
-eyes are too high
-it is really messy in general
-the lines in the hair are weird and shouldnt be there
Feedback exclusive to the [second skin]:
-hair goes behind the back
-i cant remember lol
(here are the reasons, and, well, i edited as you see lol, because i didn't want to you see
)
Wow who said it was weird? Lol
I guess that's fair
When I saw it first time I was mad and like, it's not that bad!
But when I see it, I see the reason and I think, Jesus I was dumb 😂
is that a portal to the feedback channel?
sometimes you can create channel portals by tagging the channels xd
What about #feedback-readonly 😹😹😹
Oh yes better much

Can we see the designs you mentioned earlier? ;3
Everyone send in your first designs 

i deleted my first design
@pure rivet showwww
@mortal geyser xD nevaaaaa
its on my broken phone also
oh but i can remake it
These were the designs
oh god, the details
its coolll
||@timber mural guess of the day Matthew/Matthieu||
For 1st one I wanted to be like clan quest
lelelelel
||@timber mural guess of the day Matthew/Matthieu||
||no||
Matthew
the eyes of the second scare me
Batthew

I'll guess both male and female names that come to mind
Wow they're good Tary lol I don't see the issue
Idk where my first design is at
And my very, very first design wasn't designed in Ibis Paint X
i deleted both the files and pics of my first design 
sneek peek first designnn
I wish I had them Tare

yeah..
experienced
im jelly
That's okay Peachy, I would use that bg
@mortal geyser not bad, not bad
it looks good
i like the fg
owo
I remember the mistakes, the gradient on hair, mirrored highlights in eyes...
i like the hair
For my avatar lol
mine also
@mortal geyser alcohol is a yes
beer time
Lmfao first desgin for medieval bp 
For no reason i only remember criticism
My 2nd design i rly hate will send
Lol 🙂
And you can see it for 5 secs too
I remember I kept asking Hyde if the shirt was too detailed xD
aaaaaaa i missed solly's design
self stabbing sword
solly y know what to do 
Oh and brb to lunch
Wow it's really good wish I had them Tare
Glorious @hearty falcon but the dragon maybe copyrighted and also I don't like how the boy doesn't have as powerful teeth as the female
@pure rivet u.u idk if you remember the tavern keepers from the medieval bp voting xD
@pure rivet u.u idk if you remember the tavern keepers from the medieval bp voting xD
@SollyRoamer#6919 is that the one on your insta xD?
i have ig
But why can't the boy's mouth have crazy teeth too?
ok i might change it then
Maybe he wants a cute boy
Rarely anyone get feedbacks from IG tho 
No please dont
Yeah boy mouth looks fine to me
Actually the boy can use the girl's mouth too so it's fine really nevermind

but he looks cute tho
But the real issue is Dragon Legends sueing WWO for copyright for that baby dragon foreground...
Aaand
Yeah
whats dragon legends?
@tulip siren it's a game
Yay @gentle lily
Do you have a reference for that dragon from the game?
And apparently the dragon @hearty falcon made is a copy of it
I took desert and ran into my room 
@terse warren I'd have to scroll up, I don't remember who sent it in
Yay
I took desert and ran into my room
@gentle lily you took the sahara desert?
Ahh too late xddd
owo
you play that game?
why i saw the pic from jan 1 1970..










