(Please AMD release the integer scaling driver already)
#pc-build-help-and-tech-talk
fiery nacelle
fiery nacelle
So I rely on game engine scaling to drive it to 1440p or I specify 1440p output to 4k screen
hexed horizon
That's rough.
fiery nacelle
REAL ROUGH
hexed horizon
Just play 1080p...
On your 4k screen
Not that hard
Nintendo Switch owners are fine with that
fiery nacelle
The non-native resolution makes things look blurry, even worse than 1080p on a 1080p screen of the same size
so I run games at 1440p then output to 4k
hexed horizon
Then use a native 1080 screen
hexed horizon
Play in your office
fiery nacelle
plus office is for work
abstract kite
if GTFO needs as much ressource as payday 2 I'd be happy
fiery nacelle
(not a home office)
fiery nacelle
Payday 2 minimums are really low though
abstract kite
I just hope we will be able to disable annoying settings like motion blur, dof, and the gui blur I noticed on the game trailer
fiery nacelle
not bad
hexed horizon
I played 1500 hours with 30FPS
fiery nacelle
1500? wow
hexed horizon
Yeah
abstract kite
I finished the entire saints row 3 campain between 6 and 8 fps
fiery nacelle
come on how do you do that
hexed horizon
I reseted 4 times
fiery nacelle
8?
hexed horizon
Hmm
fiery nacelle
Once frame rates dip into the 40s, I start feeling... disconnected
abstract kite
it was so slow my drifts were perfect and in multiplayer while "racing" with a friend he was 3 times faster with the same car lmao
now that I have my new pc I wouldn't be able to do that anymore
fiery nacelle
that is what drove you to get your current PC specs yes?
what do you have under the hood
besides the GTX 1080 Ti 11GB
abstract kite
I started with a low range laptop 6 years ago (dual core 1.65GHz, integrated graphics and I upgraded to 8GB ram)
abstract kite
now i7-7700k, a good clocked 1070, 16GB of 3200MHz ram, etc...
fiery nacelle
ah I see
fiery nacelle
we've been persuading @hexed horizon to buy a new 1080p 144Hz adaptive sync monitor
hexed horizon
no frick u
abstract kite
I'm pretty proud of my setup, it ended up very well (tho I noticed that a ventirad is cheaper for the same performance as an AIO)
hexed horizon
i refuse
fiery nacelle
@lost iron monitor
abstract kite
oof
fiery nacelle
oh come on it is 900p
hexed horizon
i got couple of good options
fiery nacelle
LOL
hexed horizon
yeah its 19 inch and 900p
it works fine
i got it for 30 dollars used
from ebyte.hu
abstract kite
above-60Hz monitors are like mechanical keyboards, you don't know you absolutely need one until you use one
fiery nacelle
Some of our body parts are longer than 19 inches LOL
abstract kite
I have good friends
fiery nacelle
just joking
@hexed horizon I have a solution for the noise if you like the feel
Been using rubber o-rings on my MX blue keyboard - they still feel great but much much quieter
abstract kite
though why use voicechat when you have a mechanical keyboard?
impling you type faster than you speak
silencing clicky switches
LMAOOOO man wtf
what about cherry silent blue 😂
fiery nacelle
Oh the click is still there, but the clack of bottoming out is gone now
well at least that is more than half the noise gone LOL
abstract kite
I'm typing with red rn, I was afraid that my coworkers wouldn't like it, but no
I meant that mx blue are literaly made to make noise
if you don't want the noise just take browns
fiery nacelle
I like the clicks and feel, not so much the clacks
hexed horizon
sweet home boblama
abstract kite
of if you don't like the browns just use one of the 100 keyswiteches available
fiery nacelle
but if you'd put O rings on your reds - that would be really quiet
abstract kite
fiery nacelle
@hexed horizon JOIN THE DARK SIDE
abstract kite
big choice
fiery nacelle
144Hz on mech keyboards
hexed horizon
but I refuse
abstract kite
they often do 1000Hz polling tho
fiery nacelle
I currently have a G304/5
abstract kite
even if usb 2.0 allows 8000Hz polling, no one is making 8000Hz keyb or mouse :/
talking about that, I'm looking for a firmware guru to write some usb lib for STM32F072
abstract kite
pretty much indeed
there isn't a lot of people knowing everything about usb
like ethernet, it's a shit communication protocol
abstract kite
too complex, not well documented
that's why there's only a few specialist out there
(I'm not smarter, it's just my job)
I'm an electronic circuit designer
fiery nacelle
@hexed horizon don't worry man, you'll gain more and learn more each day of living
@lost iron hey don't you do electronics for a living too?
or was it power and utilities?
fiery nacelle
LOL
lost iron
I have done work with electrical devices
fiery nacelle
professionally?
lost iron
And work that would normally be for an electrician
I'd say none of the smart guy stuff @fiery nacelle
Grunt stuff sure but I don't know the theory to trust myself with the smart stuff
fiery nacelle
yeah PCs are just a side hobby for me
professionally I have nothing to do with em
LOL
lost iron
No Im your daddy
hexed horizon
The minimum requirements are fairly low. The game is going to be well optimized for older machines.
We can expect it to run on even second generation Intel i5 processors and the lowest videocard the developers tested with was the GTX650.
Those are from... 2012?
abstract kite
im busy running a GTX 750 with an intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2120 CPU @ 3.30GHz
and 16GB ram
fiery nacelle
2nd gen core is 2011 and gtx 6 series is from 2012
hexed horizon
Well, you should be able to run it? on 720p
fiery nacelle
not sure about that i3 cpu tho
abstract kite
yeah im not looking to play with highest graphics just able to run it smoothly without stutter or bad frame rate
fiery nacelle
get a cheap Xeon i5 2nd gen equivalent ah ha
@abstract kite problem is most stutters are typically due to cpu / system ram
or running out of vram say
hexed horizon
What socket is the 2nd generation? 1150? 1155? not sure...
fiery nacelle
yeah thats about right
hexed horizon
Huh
Only the 4th gen uses the 1150 and the 6-7gen uses 1151?
there was 5th gen but only for laptops and such, right?
fiery nacelle
there were some desktop chips but not popular
because Broadwell's small increase in IPC was accompanied by moderate regressions in clockspeeds compared to Haswell refresh say
so a slight performance regression meant there was not a point to get it for desktops
latent schooner
Nice, new channel topics. I myself love building pcs, snapping hardwares together, crossing fingers that the rando YouTube tutorial video I watched was right.
latent schooner
There's an argument to be made for just buying it outright. It's not wrong.
fiery nacelle
@hexed horizon it's a branded one (e.g. Dell or Acer) or bespoke built from a local shop?
@latent schooner Not to mention hoping the parts don't arrive DOA or worse... intermittent failures
hexed horizon
no I got myself every part one by one ordering online
eventually when everything arrived I was affraid to do more than putting in the PSU and the HDD to the case
fiery nacelle
but how did you put it all together? with someone else?
fiery nacelle
ah I see that's what I do for friends too - or rather colleagues and friends
nowadays PCs are far easier to work with though
fiery nacelle
no more of that DIP SWITCH thing or whether to use 40/80 pin IDE cable to use, which one is the master / slave on that cable etc
hexed horizon
this PC was fairly cheap, with a Ryzen 5 1500X and GTX1050Ti
but I didn't want to fuck it up
lost iron
You're balanced enough
latent schooner
Umm soldering was once a thing. Gah. So easy now. Expensive Legos.
hexed horizon
originally I wanted the 2400G, so I didn't need a dedicated GPU for a while
fiery nacelle
@latent schooner haha how true yeah - Legos
hexed horizon
thats why I bought dual channel
but plans changed
I wanted 2400G with no GPU, but I ended up buying the 1500X and 1050Ti
fiery nacelle
GTFO consumes 8.1GB, @hexed horizon cries LOL
hexed horizon
nop
fiery nacelle
nah it won't
hexed horizon
motherboard was cheap lol
abstract kite
it's even easier than legos: if you manage to plug something in, that's where it belongs
latent schooner
@hexed horizon only 2 things to worry about, bending the pins on the cpu, and electric shock.
fiery nacelle
You could genuinely plug the wrong thing back in our days
If memory serves me correctly
abstract kite
there's no pin anymore on processors nowadays
fiery nacelle
pin?
abstract kite
just pads
fiery nacelle
we used to mount CPU coolers on the naked dies themselves
abstract kite
because the cooling isn't pushing a lot on the cpu?
fiery nacelle
stakes were higher back then yes
latent schooner
Yeah it is, yeah
fiery nacelle
No temp protection diodes on my Thunderbird
wrong cooling - fried processor
Well I did kinda miss those 5.25 floppies - so cool
abstract kite
lmao I ran an athlon II without any cooling, just bare cpu
fiery nacelle
damn, underclocked, undervolted?
abstract kite
hot on bios, didn't manage to run windows without shutting off
I was trying to revive it anyway, it's a crap that I found
0€
nothing to loose
fiery nacelle
The first PC I used had an 80386 in there
abstract kite
I managed to revive it tho, now it runs linux on a 80GB hdd
I was able to host my discord bot on it
fiery nacelle
nice
abstract kite
but I did the same with a raspi 3B and I have no idea how the performances compares
because a raspi is like 10 times smaller and 100 times lighter and only need 1 wire
fiery nacelle
I have never seen a raspberry Pi IRL actually
abstract kite
oof
sick reef
Direct die cooling is a bit more complex, but still a part of the cooling scene today
2080Ti Kingpin uses Direct Die contact for its cooling.
fiery nacelle
Wait a minute, don't all GPUs use direct die contact?
(wished they would have soldered on some heatspreaders - especially for multi chip packages with HBM like Vega)
sick reef
Now that I think of it, I'm unsure. Maybe that's right
But there are direct die for CPU as well.
Also, soldering on heatspreaders 
sick reef
Yeah.
latent schooner
Since it's peer to peer, does the quality of an ethernet cable affect hosting at all? I'm on cat5 I think.
Looking at cat6a as an upgrade. Because, upgrades.
lost iron
Shouldn't
Unless you wires are 25 years old
Cat 5e has been the standard since about 2002
Which is gigabit over 100m
Cat 6 recently becuase the standard which is gigabit over 1km
So unless you have a 100m data cable or a 25 year old data cable you're fine
And even then you don't need gigabit network to play a game
harsh terrace
Why aren't we seeing 240 ips monitors yet? they're clearly possible now (albeit with higher response time)
Like several laptops have them now or will have them in a few weeks
sick reef
Investment cost.
fiery nacelle
Hopefully soon
Although it gets much harder to differentiate 144 from 240 than it is to tell 60 apart from 144
abstract kite
480Hz when
fiery nacelle
Plus one can only wonder at the kind of CPU and GPU required to drive say a 1440 monitor to 240 fps
1440p at 144fps already requires more graphics power than 4k at 60 fps (7.22% more pixels per second)
abstract kite
4k 60fps = 1080p 240Hz
fiery nacelle
Easier to drive 4k 60fps than 1080p 240 fps I'd say
abstract kite
no no, it is exact
fiery nacelle
Theoretically requires same GPU power
But to get high framerates...
Your CPU will choke
abstract kite
4k is exaclty 4 times more pixel than 1080p
sick reef
1440p is 1.777.. times more pixels than 1080p 
abstract kite
I have a 7700k, don't talk to me about cpu bottleneck
fiery nacelle
There can always be a cpu bottleneck - such things are relative and just depends on resolution and settings
hexed horizon
Intel Pentium
abstract kite
a game will never bottleneck a 7700k except a few ones
I mean sandbox games can bottleneck any processor
sick reef
And doing the math, then yes, 1.07.
An increase of 7% over 4K 60FPS, as in, 1080p 240FPS, for 1440p 144FPS.
For pixels per second.
fiery nacelle
@abstract kite Yes but can CPU draw sufficient frames to keep 240 fps consistently in most AAA games?
Given say a Quad SLi Titan setup
abstract kite
in term of drawing cpu doesn't, nuh XD
but draw calls are not that slow
in fact I bet I can run over 1k draw call per second
harsh terrace
240 1080p is easy to drive on high end systems
sick reef
1080p is a forgiving resolution.
harsh terrace
as long as you dont choke your componets
abstract kite
because what makes the speed is what is different between 2 frames, and with indexed drawing you have about nothing to update
that's why you have loading screens
hexed horizon
I like tech talk but I prefer low end/budget because those are the real heroes of the PC gaming universe.
abstract kite
I can't design a pc config of less than 1k€ XD
hexed horizon
Yo if you guys keep gonna talk 144fps over 8m im gonna have to leave
abstract kite
but
hexed horizon
Fellas
abstract kite
2060 is cool
hexed horizon
I used to not have any money
abstract kite
imo 2060 is the best gpu over the entire 2000 series
fiery nacelle
in ideal scenarios yeah but the minimums hurt
hexed horizon
Yeah the 2060 is great
fiery nacelle
where one has high variance between minimum and getting the 240 fps
better to run locked 120 or 144
some games are notorius
like Vermintide 2
hexed horizon
I remember when the Intel Pentium G4560 was popular
abstract kite
@fiery nacelle lmao wtf, of course, as if everyone was running games at 4k 240Hz
I don't have 240Hz because it's expensive
otherwise I would
hexed horizon
Good old times.
fiery nacelle
at lower resolutions, hitting 240 fps is challenging on AAA multiplayer because CPU
Those nicely picked in-game benchmarks do not show them up
I can get well over 60 fps semi-consistently on the Division 2 in-game benchmark only to see framerates tank into the 40s (with GPU utilization < 60%) during intense multiplayer sessions
abstract kite
I won't take an ubisoft game as a reference tho
harsh terrace
@abstract kite its only a ~$100 more than 144hz
abstract kite
considering the gpu, not only
fiery nacelle
Even on BF V Ultra settings, the i7-7700k will be holding back the 2080Ti (compared to say the 8700k / 9900k)
Needless to say dropping to medium to consistently get 144fps 1% lows and say 240fps averages may further widen the gap
fiery nacelle
sadly a lot of the bottleneck is not due to the number of threads required
since Ryzen 2700x scores even lower than the 7700k
It is the single-threaded performance
harsh terrace
i mean ryzen 3000
fiery nacelle
Likely a "dominant" / main thread choking on single threaded performance
harsh terrace
because "supposedly" its faster in single core
fiery nacelle
Developers are going to have to learn and improvise
to balance out the load across threads, as much as it is sanely possible
abstract kite
rysen won't lift this bottleneck as the fastest cpu is the 9700k in mono thread perf
they will just add more cores, and intel will either die or follow amd
harsh terrace
^
Supposedly
abstract kite
🇽 to doubt
fiery nacelle
Some games like GTA V HATE the Ryzen architecture
Others will perform better on Zen 2 than Intel's equivalent
late sorrel
Yeah, there’s nothing that can be done there though
fiery nacelle
yes even single threaded performance - assuming stock clocks
late sorrel
That’s all on the game Dev
harsh terrace
yeah, new games are gonna likely be better, because the new consoles will have zen
we shouldn't see much favoritism after that
@abstract kite look it up, it is faster
fiery nacelle
E.g. Arma 3, dropping resolutions from 1080p to 720p doesn't lift framerates beyond...
It's nastily cpu bound somewhere
late sorrel
oh wait you can put media here
abstract kite
hmm, first 3% is not relevant as your other components will make this number varry (rysen 3 supports pcie 4.0?)
and second we don't have the product in our hands, so we can't tell yet
fiery nacelle
Dirt is one example where Ryzen shines
harsh terrace
AMD usually doesnt make bold claims that they're faster
i have a tad bit of hope
just a little though lol
abstract kite
I don't say that they are lying, just we can't really tell for now
3% isn't much as I said, and I guess it can be more or less
fiery nacelle
Things will get better once more developers have had time optimizing their engines and games for the weird CCX-structures of the Zen architecture? maybe?
harsh terrace
likely
late sorrel
Considering we’ve only got 40% faster on intel cpus since 2010...
fiery nacelle
Only thing I was disappointed was the surprisingly low boost clocks for Zen 2
abstract kite
and maybe they aren't telling us that their +3% is just with those optimisation and games will run at -13% speed
harsh terrace
The IPC should negate it tho
fiery nacelle
3%?
late sorrel
Sorry, 50%
fiery nacelle
oh that slide from AMD
late sorrel
That’s going off of 2500k and 9600k
abstract kite
wait, it's misleading
late sorrel
3% is much if you look at that
abstract kite
it's +1% not +3%
fiery nacelle
it's not since its for Cinebench
which we all know AMD fares MUCH better compared to games
against Intel
abstract kite
and in fact less than 1%
late sorrel
Also the 3900x isn’t included
abstract kite
about 0.980%
fiery nacelle
The slide is more a measure of extremely well threaded productivity loads - especially less latency sensitive ones (or ones that all can fit into L3)
abstract kite
wait, why the 3800 is faster than the 3700?
fiery nacelle
the single threaded performance increase is just the icing on the cake
late sorrel
It should be
fiery nacelle
3800 > 3700
harsh terrace
misread that lol
abstract kite
on multithread yeah, but one monothread
late sorrel
You might’ve misread
abstract kite
how did they manage to add more cores without getting slower clocks wtf
fiery nacelle
Boost clocks
Single threaded load? any core can boost all the way to max
multi threaded load is when cpus with loads of cores will have to settle for lower base clocks
the BIGGEST IF with Zen 2 is....
abstract kite
cpu with higher core number usualy have less clock speed
fiery nacelle
has AMD managed to close that gaming performance gap?
i.e. will Cinebench more accurately represent the gaming performance
They can have a wider variance of clocks I guess
especially well-binned dies
e.g.
abstract kite
hum, I'm talking about the average of the highest binned cpu, so it doesn't make any difference
the fact is that with more cores the cpu is bigger... wait did they made some 7nm?
fiery nacelle
the SKUs themselves as alluded by AdoredTV and some members of the AMD reddit are binned
I won't be surprised
Why have 3700X and 3800X
late sorrel
It’s all 7nm
abstract kite
oh they realy did, that's why
late sorrel
Intels still at 9nm
fiery nacelle
And of course the best 6 core chiplets will be rolled into the Ryzen 9 3900X, the lower quality ones will be sold into Ryzen 5 3600 series
9nm?
harsh terrace
Isn't Intel at 14 still?
fiery nacelle
Aren't their desktop SKUs yeah 14?
late sorrel
o
harsh terrace
It's why they run so hot... They keep packing stuff into it
fiery nacelle
nah
they run hot cause Intel is clocking em up past their best voltage / clock curves
These things are not linear
harsh terrace
Yeah.. they haven't changed anything for long, long while. And they keep putting more into it without making it efficient
Maybe I'm wrong
Idk
fiery nacelle
abstract kite
@harsh terrace they changed their print
harsh terrace
When?
abstract kite
like as the printing is better, they can safely clock up
the 6700 is like the 9700 imo
fiery nacelle
but with severe penalties
really severe
Zen+ if I recall did lose some power efficiency just to get to higher clocks afforded by GF's 12nm
look at the chart I sent above for 14nm vs 7nm
Say at Frequency of 1.0x
abstract kite
the only thing I see is 40% more clock
fiery nacelle
Moving to a better process node
Either you keep the same frequency and double the cores
Or keep the same core count... but you cannot double the frequency
abstract kite
I know it's not intel, but gib me that sweet 10GHz 9700k ( *w*)
fiery nacelle
To get the same TDP, you can only increase freq by 40%
understanding that graph is key
abstract kite
having a brain is key
abstract kite
I don't, so I can't tell
fiery nacelle
If you move from 14nm to 7nm you have a choice
fiery nacelle
To keep the same power consumption (which will affect heat)
You either double the cores (say from 8 to 16)
abstract kite
imo tech nowadays is garbage, sofware more than hardware but still
fiery nacelle
Or you increase frequencies by 40%
Because power consumption increases as a power - square? / cube? function of frequency - it is not linear
Doubling frequency would mean anywhere from TRIPLE to QUADRUPLE your power consumption, not double
Pushing a chip to an extra +10% frequency isn't adding 10% more power / heat to be removed
It oftens adds like 20% to 50% more
especially at the top end of that curve
abstract kite
with a given technology and a given voltage, it should be linear as you are just pumping gate charges faster
fiery nacelle
Doesn't P scale with C * V^2 * F
abstract kite
but when overclocking you often need to increase voltage, and gate charge is CU²/2
fiery nacelle
to increase F, you need to pump more Vs
Yeah, essentially we're saying the same things
lock V
and if F can be increased without increasing V, your power consumption / thermals should go up linearly
If at anytime you have to increase V to get a higher F, there goes power comsumption
lost iron
NVIDIA may have 7nm GPUs by 2020
As they are working alongside TSMG which work on Samsung's die manufacturing projects
Who are currently working on 7nm dies
Apparently
chrome chasm
What you think of Stadia for the pc gaming ?
modern yew
The big issue is ISPs in NA are dog shit
So it really depends how much of the customer base can play games smoothly based on their connection. I'm under the assumption most people generally have average connection at best.
Also the problem with data caps, sounds like Stadia will consume quite a bit of too.
The idea around it though seems pretty cool.
harsh terrace
You still have to buy games if you decide to pay for the subscription lol
That's gay
lost iron
Is stadia another one of those fame streaming services?
bronze cloak
Built my friend’s first PC today
fiery nacelle
@bronze cloak intel based system? Looks modest and low key (no flashy RGBs), what are the specs
bronze cloak
Yep, i5-6500 on an MSI B150 PC Mate. Got 16 GB 2400 MHz EVGA RAM, Asus Expedition RX 570, EVGA 550 B3 PSU, a 1 TB Seagate Barracuda HDD with a 480 GB Team L5 Lite 3D SSD on the way, and a Phanteks P350X case to round it all off (the only RGB component in the build)
He got the CPU mobo and RAM for $150, but he does plan on upgrading when he has the spare cash.
abstract kite
looks a bit like mine, but my cable management is better :p (at least inside the case)
abstract kite
well, when I said "better" in my mind it was just "slightly better" because in his one there's a cable in front of the graphics card
but yeah, looks like mine
lost iron
Ah yeah that's a USB header connection, it would be most likely due to there being a blutooth module on the NIC
I run those under the GPU normally
bronze cloak
Oh yeah, the wifi card was temporary, I threw it in there from my build so he could play some games.
bronze cloak
👌
bronze cloak
I would say 1080 ti but those can be hard to find with Turing being mainstream now.
fleet canopy
Mmk
fiery nacelle
$126 for 6 Core CPU, 16GB RAM and NEW Motherboard: Amazing Value with LGA 1356
Really old HEDT platform based on Sandy Bridge, parts sourced from China - not a bad value considering the performance
At 2.8Ghz max boost clock, probably will be CPU bottlenecked in low threaded scenarios
But paired with a reasonably cheap GPU like an RX 570 / 580, it should suffice
lost iron
So NVIDIA are potentially releasing a "SUPER" line of rtx cards to fight off AMD Navi at e3
It's also looking like there will be 3 Navi GPUs launched
It's also looking like RTX 2070 performance for round 330USD
I will just buy
Tbh
At 190w TDP
harsh terrace
I hope they release a cheaper (or make it cheaper) variant of the 2080 ti
Cuz I don't wanna spend $1,300 on a video card thats only about 20% faster than a 1080ti
fleet canopy
It’ll decreases hopefully with new GPUs to come by
harsh terrace
Hopefully
abstract tulip
i would just wait, becuse in this point if you are just looking to play games, there isent alot of rtx supported games out there anyhow 🤷
harsh terrace
I wanna play at 1440p tho
fleet canopy
1080 Ti
abstract tulip
You can even do 4k with a 1080ti but then you are really pushing the limits of your card
harsh terrace
Eh... I'd rather buy a 2080 still, because it's just about as fast as a 1080ti, but it runs better on higher resolutions
fiery nacelle
Radeon Rays
GTFO has X-Ray Tracing haha
@harsh terrace what card do you have currently?
fiery nacelle
You have a laptop?
fleet canopy
F
fiery nacelle
I always thought a new 1070 max q ought to run like a desktop 1060 6gb
harsh terrace
it should
fiery nacelle
Is it a new laptop?
harsh terrace
it doesn't though, despite my many attempts to fix its cooling solution
eh
its from early 2018
pretty new
fiery nacelle
Hmmm can't be dust buildup then, at least not that fast
fiery nacelle
You run games with the power plugged in and power profile set to max, right?
harsh terrace
of course
although this laptop does have a big problem, it has no igpu
so its always running 60c
fiery nacelle
The only way is to try out Afterburner monitoring to see what's going on
Also you might have to set target temps or fan speed higher to sustain higher clocks
fiery nacelle
Oh dang
fleet canopy
HP is a joke
harsh terrace
eh... this laptop works great for what i needed it for
fiery nacelle
...drawing nudes? Lol
fiery nacelle
Any way to access the nvidia control panel?
harsh terrace
mhm
fiery nacelle
(AMD has wattman which allows custom target temps, etc)
harsh terrace
wattman is great
fiery nacelle
The other way is to "force" target values via Afterburner
harsh terrace
i cant control anything in afterburner
this thing locked down to hell lol
the only thing i can control is the cpu
which is undervolted
fiery nacelle
Wow that bad?
harsh terrace
mhm
lost iron
You know undervolting your Vega 64 or 56 improved performance by up to 20%
mine ran so well undervolted
harsh terrace
nice
abstract kite
Can you only do one or the other for vega? Like you can only undervolt or only overclock? Or is the undervolt the technical overclock?
harsh terrace
I've never tried raising clockspeed while a component is undervolted, I assume on paper you can do it? (I'm probably wrong lol) Although you almost always need a higher voltage to get high overclocks... It can depend wildly though.... Anyways, an undervolt isn't a oc, however it can improve stability and heat. Thus increasing performance
fiery nacelle
@abstract kite you could do both but the overclock might not be stable if the voltage is too low
What the undervolt does is enable the chip to sustain higher boost frequencies (that are stable at those reduced voltages) where previously it was throttling due to temperature
abstract kite
Ah I understand, thank you for your help. I'm building a beautiful gaming computer for cyberpunk 2077 and gtfo
fiery nacelle
Hmm let me think
Correct me if I'm wrong brothers
If your GPU is a manual geared vehicle driving uphill
Voltage = RPM
Frequency = gear
"Load" = number of passengers/cargo
FPS = speed
TDP / Heat / power consumption = fuel consumption
Cooling solution = car radiator
@lost iron @abstract kite @harsh terrace
On a very hot day (card thermal solution is not robust enough for the powerful GPU) running uphill on a full load (running demanding 3D game engine)
To prevent radiator overheating (thermal throttling), you'd ultimately limit the fuel consumption (power / tdp / heat)
Of course, the higher the speed (FPS), the more the fuel consumption
But at any given speed, the most optimum fuel consumption is when running at the highest possible gear (frequency) at lowest possible RPM (voltage)
lost iron
Vega serries cards auto set their clock speeds based on temperature so due to this factor you actually get higher clock speeds in effect overclocking it by undervolting it
at stock voltage my Vega could only hold around the 1450Mhz range
but when undervolted it would hold around 1580Mhz and push up to 1630Mhz under load
fiery nacelle
of course, push it too hard and the car stalls when your rpm (voltage) drops below the minimum required to keep the engine turning at your selected high gear (frequency)
this is called stability
lost iron
also the HBM memory ran cooler and due to that faster
fiery nacelle
That is a nice feature of the Vega cards
lost iron
the HBM at stock voltages would regularly drop to 540Mhz but with the undervolt in place I could keep it at 1040Mhz
fiery nacelle
I do sincerely hope that Navi would implement some kind of PBO for GPU, akin to Nvidia's auto-boost? feature for their GPUs
lost iron
Vega is the rare exception to the rule of undervolting rule, generally undervolting reduces performance
fiery nacelle
undervolting only reduces performance if frequencies have to drop in response, correct?
lost iron
yep
fiery nacelle
I remember the first Polaris cards had to be undervolted to enable them to sustain their 1266Mhz boost (thermal throttle)
(well the blower editions that is)
Anyway, the vehicle-gear-rpm-speed analogy - does it make sense?
probably only for those who have driven / hypermiled a manual vehicle sadly...
😦
fiery nacelle
oh no prob mate
fiery nacelle
@frozen otter Hey
fiery nacelle
The Athlon X2 220 (2-core 2-thread) with the Radeon HD 4500 and 4GB of System RAM
Most likely is going to be too low a requirement to run much of anything at a minimum reasonable quality with playable framerates
frozen otter
If you could know the stretch i go in modifying stuff in order to get it working
fiery nacelle
Besides AMD has discontinued driver support for the HD 4500, or anything older than GCN1 (older than HD7700 series)
frozen otter
I was lucky enough that I actually can use the first version of their new drivers
The Crimson ones
fiery nacelle
Yeah though proper support for latest games coming out on the latest engines will be absent
fiery nacelle
oh that place is rough for PC prices - they are jacked up quite high there
fiery nacelle
Had one or two posts from users in Argentina to the AMD subreddit
crazy pricing due to taxation
and supplier / distributor monopolies too?
frozen otter
Yes
frozen otter
and our aduana (dont remember english word) tends to don't let pass tech stuff thorugh border
Nope
fiery nacelle
would arduana = customs?
fiery nacelle
hmmm, that is tough
unless you happen to be on a long term assignment or holiday overseas
and bring in your personal PC (e.g. laptop) bought overseas
But then again there is the issue of warranty
What about buying 2nd hand / used cheap parts from Aliexpress shipped to Argentina?
frozen otter
customs
fiery nacelle
Ouch
Hmmm, customs will allow you to bring it in yes? but you have to pay duties?
Could it be buying overseas + duty prices is much less than buying locally? (minus monopoly pricing from local distributors)
In my country, customs will check and enforce duties but in some cases that ends up say 20% cheaper than buying locally
(but then again PC components here are relatively cheap, used to have a 0% sales tax for the last 20 years in order to kickstart adoption of PC ownership and cultivate digital savviness among the populace)
frozen otter
Don't twist your mind around it,thanks for the helps nonetheless
fiery nacelle
no probs, just trying to help
abstract kite
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr1J-4O7J2oMhmn1aSVwCpQ/videos
just wanted to say that I like this channel, pretty cool, skilled man, wholesome family
late sorrel
Don't you guys love that Rasperry Pi's use 40% of it's cpu for discord
fiery nacelle
that's impressive
Always thought the load would be quite significant (especially when voice is included) for much older / weaker cpus
e.g. low clocked Athlon 64 x2s
stone yacht
Any chance someone here has the i7 9700k?
harsh terrace
Why do you ask?
fiery nacelle
Release it in time for GTFO yeaaah
fiery nacelle
@hexed horizon @lost iron @harsh terrace
harsh terrace
NICE
fiery nacelle
@hexed horizon @lost iron @harsh terrace
Rumours
R9 3950X 16c / 32t base clock 3.5GHz, turbo up to 4.7GHz
fiery nacelle
I was hoping the Navi could have sustained a 2GHz game clock though - slightly disappointed
Also I have no idea how they are going to maintain that 105w TDP
can't they just push a bit to say 140 watt TDP and provide a better Wraith cooler
fiery nacelle
or even don't bundle the Wraith cooler for the top end SKU (people that can shell out say USD 700 for that will get their own 3rd party anyway)
harsh terrace
hell if i buy ryzen 3 i'd still put a 3rd party cooler on it
fiery nacelle
whooo can't wait for AMD to improve the design for next year
If only they can release something to beat RTX 2080 for RTX 2070 price
harsh terrace
or if they went after the 2080 ti
it'd be nice
i dont wanna spend at least $1099.99 for a top end card
hexed horizon
people here: ryzen 3000, 7 nanometer, rtx2080ti
me: i like budget solutions
people here: no
hexed horizon
yeah I heard
late sorrel
yeah
hexed horizon
while I got myself the Ryzen 5 1500X for 160 dollars 8 months ago
late sorrel
supposedly as good as 2700x
hexed horizon
well I guess im gonna have to buy a new computer ðŸ¤
well, I think my computer is fine but I should replace my motherboard with a 4 RAM slots and buy +2 sticks-o-ram
for a 16 total
but on 4 threads
which is nice
late sorrel
nice
hexed horizon
All tho
in that case
If I kept my current RAM, then I will need to buy the same 2400Mhz frequency
🤔
Honestly, just for +50 dollars on my whole build I could have bought more quality shit
Ryzen 5 1600 instead of 1500X
4 RAM slot mobo
past stag
I have 16GB of 2400Mhz
past stag
That’s why I did
hexed horizon
Yeah.
past stag
Hopefully my build can run GTFO on high settings
past stag
Sweet
late sorrel
well the dev's are using high end 2016? stuff iirc
late sorrel
laughs in 5670
hexed horizon
The devs use i7-4xxxK and GTX970
Oh yeah
the HD567 0
Bruh, Alpha release is in... soon
get a low end at least
late sorrel
Eh, I'm hopefully going to get a job and buy some of this spicy ryzen 3000 and navi shit
hexed horizon
what is your config
past stag
Gasp
hexed horizon
gtfo
not important
spent half a year on this discord
You wanna buy a new config?
Hold up
past stag
I bought my RAM originally because I couldn’t run Division 2 with 8GB
lost iron
@fiery nacelle 1905Mhz boost clock tells me it might just hit 2000Mhz if overclocked
stone yacht
@harsh terrace sorry, i was asleep when you responded. im looking at getting an upgrade for my PC from an i5-7500 to either the i7-9700k or i7-8700k. i had read around that the 9700k has some problems with running some games on a single core (or something like that) and just running like a potato at times even though it got higher marks than the 8700k
lost iron
@stone yacht technically speaking the 7700k is really really great for games if you are playing single threaded games
It's the highest performing CPU in single threaded tasks
Just food for thought
We are moving very quickly towards multithreaded processing being the standard for games though
Outside of that I think the 8700k is a very solid performer and I do feel it's one of the more optimal chips to buy from Intel
stone yacht
well, the 9700k tends to use single core rather than multithreads for some reason i guess. if i understood the technical terms for some reason
lost iron
The others are paying money for shit you don't really need
The other thing is to consider your power delivery systems on your mobo
They might be fine for stock speed on an 8700k or 9700k
What Mobo do you have?
stone yacht
ill be getting a z370 or z390 with it, the z270 doesnt support those CPUS
lost iron
Even with a bios update?
stone yacht
i think it had to do with the socket
lost iron
Nevermind
Socket difference
You'd have to cancel out some of the pins (which has been done in the past, tech yes city did a tutorial)
Tbh as much as I sound like a hype train fan boy
I'd recommend waiting to see the real world performance of Ryzen 3000 as you will likely get a chip and Mobo for the price of just the Intel chip
I'm all about that value for money
stone yacht
id prefer to stick with intel, although ive had issues with my i5 7500, it wasnt one of their flagship CPUs and didnt really get much support. but intel and nvidia for me
even if its just that much better than its counterpart, but more expensive. thats fine by me.
fiery nacelle
@lost iron I was greedily hoping that 2 GHz can be readily achieved without overclocking and 2.2 for overclocking haha
But RDNA seems the right 1st step from AMD to combating Nvidia's dominance
@stone yacht Do consider AMD for both CPU and GPU products.
They are the underdogs and have been driving both innovation and competition from the dominant players in both arenas
If they collapse, all hell will break loose for us
Both Intel and Nvidia will kill us with their unreasonable product prices or poor values
There isn't anything wrong with AMD products, it is not that Intel or Nvidia have better compatibility
In fact, Intel's current CPU architecture design is vulnerable to several deep and troubling security flaws
Which AMD's current architecture are immune to by design
@past stag oh dear, I am running The Division 2 on 8GB of RAM - quite the stutter (or rather freeze-up) I tell you, especially in combat where I sometimes experience 2 to 3 seconds of random freezing
stone yacht
its preference more than anything else really, im much more familiar with their lineup of products and id probably be shunned from my family if i went AMD. I cant comment on the security portion, except, it doesnt apply to me. the only thing of value on my PC is the physical components.
lost iron
Don't stick with something because it's comfortable
That's how you fuck yourself over in life
Look out for your best interests
Same goes for relationships actually
Just becuase it's comfortable doesn't mean it's the best thing for you
harsh terrace
@stone yacht that's why amd basically ripped the naming scheme, and wtf do you mean? OF COURSE the security flaws apply to you, they apply to everyone... Even if you don't care about security, you're still losing performance
lost iron
The security flaws are built into the architecture of the CPU
If you have the security patches in place d they applied to you
lost iron
I mean if you want to pay a premium to have built in security flaws that's your decision
stone yacht
look at it any way you want. it doesnt affect me.
fiery nacelle
Ah I see now, @stone yacht , your fam prolly some work for Intel right?
Yeah I understand that
fiery nacelle
You'd have to buy then, there's some kind of loyalty incentives
lost iron
Like don't get me wrong the likelyhood of a home user being targeted is low
fiery nacelle
Also the security patches are just stopgaps like what @lost iron says
lost iron
So probably is in your favour that you won't be effected but, that's probability
stone yacht
my concern isnt being targeted. they can look all up and down my computer and wont find anything of value.
fiery nacelle
And with it comes severe (for I/O and productivity) to slight (for gaming) performance penalties
stone yacht
no cards, no passwords, nothing
lost iron
The security flaws aren't just about stealing information
The security flaws can be exploited to set in motion serious randsomeware
Which will lock you out of your system completely
fiery nacelle
Could turn your PC into another zombie as part of a larger botnet
lost iron
And then you need to reinstall
Also yeah it can quietly use your system in a botnet too
stone yacht
dont you have to click on a link or download something for randsomware?
fiery nacelle
Not these days unfortunately
stone yacht
it has to be installed in some manner, correct?
fiery nacelle
I am by no means an expert on software or networking, but I gather that a lot of stuff these days are automated
scripts and such
well, more automated than in the past
Also, it could come from supposedly valid sources, when hackers for example do manage to pawn legit/valid software or its updates
Remember how hackers pawned the various Sony, etc (e.g. Dropbox) and other financial networks? - that was for data - how about they drop in a backdoor
They already have in fact
Bloody hackers pawned Avast / Piriform (oh the irony!) and hid a backdoor into CCleaner previously
stone yacht
well, ill look at the very least if thatll calm both of you down.
fiery nacelle
But no worries, it doesn't mean Intel CPUs are unviable
They are
Just do get a more modern one
One which they have incorporated hardware hardening against these attacks
And I perfectly understand family
stone yacht
do you mean post finding out about the flaw?
fiery nacelle
Intel has already been made known these flaws at least 6 months to a year before public release of such information
Presumably their upcoming 14nm+++ series desktop CPUs ought to have incorporated a workaround
(post 9000 series)
stone yacht
when are those expected to drop?
fiery nacelle
Seems like next year though
Meanwhile, your i5-7500 should be okay for most games, e.g. GTFO
Heck I'm still on an old i7-2600
and have no plans to change till next year so far
stone yacht
theres only one game i cant play on it because of bad ports- deadrising 4
stone yacht
i played 8 hours straight fine. hopped on the next day, 20 minutes, CPU taps out, game freezes with music
so while its decent, like i mentioned before, im actually missing drivers. it never worked properly from day 1 and intel support couldnt do anything since there were no further driver updates for it. the only option was to find the drivers and delete them
but since then, it stopped complaining, BSOD frequency has dropped tremendously and it seems to just overall run alot better.
lost iron
Effectively the Intel security flaw is so easy to exploit that simply being on a website with a banner ad is enough to become compromised
That is how fundimetally flawed they are
The CPU processing the banner ad on your web browser can expose you to a virus
late sorrel
@hexed horizon gtfo isn't as important as getting a good pc
lost iron
It's true
dark quarry
It's been confirmed that you won't need a supercomputer to run GTFO, either. The devs are creating the game (and the teasers/trailers) on 4-5 year old PCs.
lost iron
Yeah I've already thrown out minimum system.specs, they are incredibly low
fiery nacelle
What, it's out already?
mental dirge
The game no
fiery nacelle
Oh I meant the minimum specs
harsh terrace
I finally watched the new Xbox announcement lol
"framerates we've never seen"
120 fps
Like... They couldn't even do 144?
abstract tulip
Yeah, 120 fps on the new xbox, and ray traceing 
harsh terrace
If this thing isn't under $300 I'm gonna die laughing
They've literally done nothing special
Like... At all
fiery nacelle
lost iron
@fiery nacelle keep me posted if possible, I am sadly going to miss out on seeing it firsthand myself
fiery nacelle
ow me too, it will be too early in the morning
bronze cloak
and now we wait for pricing
sick reef
Looks like the one they had last time where the numbers were highly optimistic.
harsh terrace
Which ones? the navi reveal was very misleading
abstract kite
Price will probably be like an average monthly wage here in Croatia
bronze cloak
I really hope that slide isn’t completely true, AMD needs to drop the fucking blower
harsh terrace
They'll have 3rd party cards I believe @bronze cloak
bronze cloak
Well of course, but I just wish AMD would take a hint from NVIDIA’s RTX FE cards
The blower design of cooler overall should just die
lost iron
Those numbers are pretty inline to their computex ones
mental dirge
The Navi yells at you to watch out
fiery nacelle
Viewing the livestream now:
RX 5700 XT > RTX 2070
RX 5700 > RTX 2060
bronze cloak
owo
fiery nacelle
Yes the cooler is a blower but there is a vapour chamber inside
and power delivery should be solid enough for overclocks
Radeon Anti-Lag feature
LOL
fiery nacelle
Reducing input lag
Navi prices
Not too bad
partnership with Microsoft Xbox gaming
fiery nacelle
There is a 3D FPS Unity game showcased on the AMD keynote
harsh terrace
the 2060 is cheaper tho
graceful hawk
yeah just use nvidea
fiery nacelle
would be worth getting the RX 5070 if it outperforms the rtx 2060 on average 10 to 15%
fiery nacelle
maybe wait for the AIB to issue dual fan designs?
oh boy, Unity is working with AMD?
Unity HDRP
GO UNITY ! out-compete UE4 !
fiery nacelle
my goodness, Unity looks amazing when done right
They are showcasing The Heretic in realtime
hexed horizon
Nice
fiery nacelle
(is it a tech demo or game?)
probs a tech demo
Wished they could showcase GTFO in all its glory in the AMD E3 showcase
lost iron
I generally don't buy reference models
fiery nacelle
"we also worked closely with AMD to take advantage of...." - Unity spokeslady
Increasing image quality by AMD Fidelity FX
Unity using CAS upscaling by taking advantage of AMD GPU rapid-packed-math feature
Perhaps better than DLSS the joke?
tight cliff
i honestly see no difference
other than the wrinkles being moved a little on the right
tight cliff
then again, these are tiny, tiny details you would not notice during normal gameplay
tight cliff
and although it does look pretty beautiful, would make it harder to optimize if used in a game
no lmao
who cares about ubimd tbh
fiery nacelle
(talking in English with a French accent) nice
dark quarry
I was gonna say the image on the right is slightly blurry if you zoom in. Probably wouldn't notice at full size/speed
lost iron
AMD is the smarter option tbh
lost iron
Like to partner with anyone
fiery nacelle
Ryzen + Radeon
tight cliff
hey guys
lost iron
They they make CPUs and GPUs plus infinity fabric
tight cliff
now that we're here can i go offtopic for a minute
fiery nacelle
"Underdog fights for the rights of the user"
fiery nacelle
Free, open-source, and competitive
tight cliff
how much does it cost to get fiber internet?
do I need to break any walls or modify a structure?
wraith mantle
A liver
harsh terrace
Depends... We don't know entirely yet... Although the CPUs are great
fiery nacelle
no AMD = no mantle
no mantle = no DX12
no DX 12 = no vulkan
They are showcasing Ghost Recon Breakpoint now
lost iron
In Australia an install for fibre to the premise cost approx $3,000-$10,000 as the council will have to get involved and plan it around existing infrastructure @tight cliff
tight cliff
golly
lost iron
Plus then you have access fees
tight cliff
I'm mostly wondering about if I need to change an infrastructure
harsh terrace
The 5700 is better for high res, the 2060 is better for only 1080p gaming (ofc amd is better for work)
lost iron
Choco you wouldn't bother running fibre in unless you want to live there long term, the upfront costs and ongoing access fees are not worth it unless you're commited to that address
tight cliff
I know doot, that's why I'm asking
harsh terrace
Fucking... Autocorrect
tight cliff
not like i'd still be able to do it since i'm broke as hell, but i want to know if I can hypothetically do it since my contract requires me to not change the infrastructure
tight cliff
yeppers
tight cliff
I wouldn't be so bothered about it if I could connect the modem and router to my PC
tight cliff
but the modem is two rooms away
and I can't break the walls to install ah uh
y'know, cable socket, I can't ever remember their name
lost iron
You could get a powerline adaptor, they aren't ideal but they are actually pretty decent nowadays
They have come leaps and bounds
They run around 80USD for a good set
fiery nacelle
tight cliff
and I don't want to starve for an entire week, so yeah
harsh terrace
im buying it lol