@thorny crag f10 hides UI and projects in the top right corner the isle logo
#general-feedback-discussion
thorny crag
I just like to get rid of the ugly name tags. Idc how 😄
green cave
@barren zephyr I like your Suggestion, it should be cool also see like Venomous or Drug Fungus
Something like this ones that when you eat them they make you See Fuzzy for a couple of Time
zinc anvil
something to have the herbi food look better
barren zephyr
@barren zephyr you do realize it’s gonna be used a massive meme right?
sand oar
You know that "enable Mods" isnt just activate a button.
The Programmer will need to go trough the old code and make a Dev Kit for a Version that will be gone in the future. 🤔
barren zephyr
@barren zephyr you do realize it’s gonna be used a massive meme right?
@barren zephyr sounds funny
tepid gate
It's probably too late for Bruhathka's suggestion although this might've been a good idea prior to starting the recode. I don't think that the argument that legacy will be gone in the future is that relevant - everything will be gone at some point in time that's not an argument not to do something with it. As it is I doubt that even the devs have a slightest idea when the legacy is going to be closing down.
Having said that it's most definitely too late to get back to legacy considering that the devs need every person working on the code to focus fully on Evrima.
sand oar
Why wasting man power on something with no future that will not get any updates or be touched again. Remember there are only 2-3 Programmers.
tepid gate
To keep the playerbase playing the game, the players themselves could create legacy's future for the time being.
sand oar
Most of the playerbase are still playing Legacy as it is. The programmers are focusing on the future of the game not the past. It isnt easy to just "enable Mods" and would need a good amount of time.
cyan flame
How about changing stats around?
sand oar
Changing stats in Legacy?
cyan flame
Yes?
tepid gate
As I said, it's way too late to enable the mods now
cobalt compass
how about, no
cyan flame
You know, there's a few critters in legacy that really could need some stat changes
tepid gate
That would've had to be something done prior to the recode.
cobalt compass
yes, most of them. but legacy is a dead horse in the future
tepid gate
Sacrificing any man-power to do that now is a terrible idea.
sand oar
They already decide to not touch Legacy again when starting the Recode.
cyan flame
So what Melo, currently playable, currently people playing, no reason not to pay it some attention you know
tepid gate
The question is how distant that future is
cobalt compass
there is no economic value in further developing legacy
cyan flame
And really, changing stats/stuff like that shouldn't be that difficult, mods/actual changes to the code, yeah I get that wouldn't be a thing but that's not really what I'm asking
It has nothing to do with that Melo.. I said stat changes, not further development
It's.. a big difference there you know
cobalt compass
that still require manpower that is simply not available
cyan flame
Sure it is
cobalt compass
sadly, not
tepid gate
Or they could just delegate it to someone in the community
Make that person responsible for balance and there you go(or preferably a group of people)
cyan flame
You're seriously telling me no one in the team has a few hours of free time they could do something with, at all?
ebon crypt
Isn't the problem that they literally don't have the legacy code anymore?
cyan flame
Everyone has max work at all times, things that has to be done immediately?..
tepid gate
I think what Rajing has mentioned might be the biggest issue
from what I've heard it's literally impossible for the devs to do any changes in the legacy even if they wanted to
but I've heard no confirmation of this from any dev
cyan flame
That might be true Aken, in which case that's.. really weird to be honest
sand oar
I dont think any of the new programmers has the old code
ebon crypt
Ye, I've heard people say that the devs just don't have the code anymore
cobalt compass
yes, im telling you from my experiences first handed from the qa team, people working so hard on evrima that there is simply no one open for this
this is not like letting you buddy doing your homework
cyan flame
Yeah, I'm gonna have to doubt that one Melo, sorry but you make no sense
It's literally going in, changing a value from x to y
You know, like change rex bite from 1200 to 1100?
cobalt compass
you need to pay people for thing that have no future and keeping them away from work that is what they're bein hired for
cyan flame
Unless that would somehow be immensely difficult, which is strange in it's on way, you can't be serious that it would take massive amount of time for it
sand oar
Yea but first off you need to find where the value is located.
Than make a new build and more
cyan flame
So the code is so weird you can't actually make sense of it? Guess that might be true, also strange but possible, judging from the stories
cobalt compass
also you'd need to check if its balanced, also putting in just estimated number is insane
cyan flame
Sure, but nothing that takes the amount of time that you make it out to take
cobalt compass
old code is like cooked spaghetti
sand oar
You can ask some of the people who made mods in the past.
All they gonna say it wasnt easy
cyan flame
Fair enough, I can buy that the code is a bit messy, but the workload, not really :p
tepid gate
I've actually seen Dondi balance the game before and it didn't include locating the values from what I recall. All the stats where displayed in one place.
cobalt compass
to bring up another perspective, maybe no one on the team wants to work with legacy as much as they need
sand oar
If they are all located in on place it could be a DataTable
tepid gate
I don't doubt that
cobalt compass
like maintain servers
cyan flame
Melo, that's fair, but that's.. a questionable attitude as far as I'm concerned
tepid gate
I don't think the team should bother with the legacy - best case scenario would be allowing someone in the community to balance the game out if anything
Possibly admins here on discord? Although they probably have their plates full already
cyan flame
But yeah, community could do the balance, all you'd really need is someone to actually put it in there if so
cobalt compass
see, there're many reasons why and why not legacy could be worked on for balancing
cyan flame
Yes, but most of the reasons aren't good, the only valid one is "code is gone/can't actually be figured out anymore"
Since that's an actual problem that can't be overcome without extreme time/effort, if at all
cobalt compass
excuse my question, did you already finish school/highschool?
cyan flame
Yes
cobalt compass
okay, how many of the documentaries did you kept from that time?
cyan flame
Documentaries? Going to have to say that's some language barrier there
Do you mean finished work?
cyan flame
Because I right now can't really translate documentaries to something that makes sense to me
Well, what I have done, I've saved, yes
I don't quite know what you're getting at, I got old stories from when I was 10 if you're.. asking if I save stuff I've done? :p
So either you mean something different, or that's a really strange question to me
cobalt compass
mostly the point, you may have some or many of the old stuff
cyan flame
Okay? I think I'm missing something here
If you mean they didn't save the old code, then I would question why throw it out before the new one is in place and established
cobalt compass
the old code is still there, if not, we were'nt able to play legacy
cyan flame
But I also did say them not having the code/not being able to interpret it anymore is a valid reason for no changes at all, it was most of the other reasons I'm not buying
So.. you're wondering if I could look at some of my old stuff and make sense of it then?
I'm really not getting your point here :p
cobalt compass
hmm, getting kinda tricky...🤣
cyan flame
Sorry, maybe I'm just totally missing what you're trying to get at here
cobalt compass
yeah, lets stick with "no people to work on it"
best would be one of the devs could confirm said things
cyan flame
Fair enough, but I don't see that, it's the same strange excuses I got last time, and they still make no logical sense
cobalt compass
but i think they also dont wanna risk getting the legacy code into the wrong hands by handing it to someone from the community, since its still their property and said person had to sign nda and other docs that give them the security that this person dont use it for its own clone or else
tepid gate
That's a fair point
cobalt compass
but you can never be 100% sure that this not happens
tepid gate
I remember the balancing very vaguely though and iirc it didn't include tinkering with the code
cyan flame
Yeah, but that could be avoided by having the community council decide on the balance changes, and just have someone go in and put it in
tepid gate
The issue with this would be that they would actually need to put the whole balancing effort into someone's hand and it can possibly backfire
cobalt compass
community council?
tepid gate
Maybe?
cyan flame
That way the main work, as in taking time to figure legacy out, is done by community, like you QA, and the specifics of "adding it" is done by a dev/someone with access and all that
tepid gate
If the balancing gets messed up it could kill the legacy which would be bad
cyan flame
Sorry, just a made up term :p
tepid gate
I think it could still be better than leaving it like this however
cobalt compass
okay🤣
cyan flame
The idea was just that community/trusted members could do that part, that way you avoid needing to give someone outside the access to the code
Since that's a fair worry
To be fair Aken, not as if legacy balance hasn't been this way or that before
cobalt compass
sorry, but my online telepathy isnt that strong that i could read any of the devs thoughts
cyan flame
And reset if it really goes bad
tepid gate
I don't think a dev should have to worry about balancing of the old branch
cyan flame
Nah, no one said that Melo, sorry if I came off claiming something like that :p
cobalt compass
👌
cyan flame
Can't really agree with that Aken
tepid gate
Anything that takes any of them from working on what they have to do is bad for the most part
cyan flame
But then my term as admin/crew for games gave me a different mindset
So that's more on me I think
tepid gate
I just don't think the devs are required to balance out the legacy
This could be done by some part of the community, the issue would be choosing who that could be
cobalt compass
in the end someone from the team had to verify the changes, but that takes time and manpower
vestal rune
keep in mind, alot of the balance was meant to come with new mechanics/dinosaurs, you may not be able to reach proper balance without those, and putting in the effort to add those would be a huge waste of time
cyan flame
Well no, we can go with what we have, but it would be nice to see para being a bit faster, and cera/pachy have some better bleed resist, they do need some help :p
tepid gate
You can absolutely reach proper balance without additional mechanics in the legacy
cobalt compass
yea, that'd be nice. para is a beauty
cyan flame
It does Melo, I guess we just disagree with how much time/effort and how important that is vs what they would otherwise do, and depending on who does it and all that
tepid gate
a lot of issues can be solved in a rather simple manner, like increasing Sucho's trot speed slightly
Or Making Para's bleed healing somewhat better
cyan flame
And yeah, no new mechanics/additions, that's not what I'm asking for, that's clearly a bad idea
tepid gate
Of course you can't do wonders and increase the trot/running speed too much because that could break the animation
cyan flame
I just wish they'd kept the ability to do balance changes, since there's some critters that were left in the shit more or less :p
tepid gate
But slight changes here and there could help the game out
cobalt compass
🤔 how do i convice you that its not that easy...
vestal rune
ye but I don't think the fact that some animals are bad is a huge issue, and wouldn't really be worth the effort to fix
cyan flame
No idea Melo, from what we've seen, it doesn't seem that hard, so you'd probably have to explain it all in detail :p
vestal rune
I mean, you'd have to test all the changes and get the devs to approve of them
cyan flame
Fair enough Fire, by now it's probably no real point, but it would have been nice back then at least, a lesson to learn perhaps, if we ever need another recode xD
vestal rune
I hope we don't lol
cobalt compass
^
cyan flame
Would have been far better if we didn't need one in the first place so yes, hopefully this time it works out
cobalt compass
ohh i look with a smile into the future😎
i like the things we test in qa
swooshes away
cyan flame
Honestly Melo, I think our difference in how we see this just comes down to me feeling there's a lack of.. flexibility in how people work I guess :p
sand oar
Well its not just changing Value there is more work behind it
cyan flame
Such as?
sand oar
Set up the old game to work in the Editor, changing the Values, make a new build, uploading the build in steam
cyan flame
Fair enough, any estimate on the time that would take/effort (if you can judge that)?
Like.. a few hours of work, a few days?
If you could actually give me something to work with, I'll be able to decide a lot easier if any argument makes sense or not :p
sand oar
It would take time to make all these step and there are still more steps to do.
Before all that the guy who would work on that would need an NDA and all the steps need to be verified and i dont think Dondi would let you get access to the Branch and upload an update on it without any tests.
cyan flame
You said time, but that doesn't help, do you have an estimate? And why would you need an NDA if you're just the one giving balance input? I'm not talking about giving someone new access to legacy, in case you missed that.
sand oar
I dont have an estimate because its hard to say. If we just giving balance input who would make the changes then?
Someone who has enough expierience with UE4 to do all these steps. (Programmers)
mental sleet
I mean, to be honest since they don't care about legacy, you could literally toss this version to someone trusted and say ''have fun''.
I'd say the problem might come with the difference in the legacy UE4 build and current, which might take some time for the programmers to take a look at and not worth it considering how much people want stuff at the moment.
cyan flame
Fair enough you two, that does bring it back to "hard to make sense of", and that's a valid reason, though I can't say I agree with the fact that we ended up here in the first place :p
mental sleet
If the old shitkit hadn't been shot and butchered, perhaps that coulve been taken and used to make that version.
cyan flame
True
bleak atlas
@night sleet ty
stark solstice
@barren zephyr
twin burrow
I might change it so, carrying corpses in it's forelimbs would slowly drain it's stamina
inner orbit
It’s quite unique
Mechanics wise
I’d like it to be implemented
Though one day I hope this is used
It would be a cool hyper megaraptorid
twin burrow
I think that is not a species sadly
inner orbit
Oh ye
The concept was originally for a fictional megaraptorid
If megaraptorids were added that concept could be repurposed
languid crown
Mods arnt a togglable feature.. it actually needs work to become compatible
barren zephyr
@novel siren you'd have to make you're own server and make that a rule but atm it wouldn't be a great idea
especially since AI is very limited in legacy and is still getting heavily worked on in Evrima
frigid cosmos
exactly, pvp is part of survival
novel siren
barren zephyr
well it would have to be in the far future
frigid cosmos
almost 0% chance they will do that within a year
barren zephyr
i imagine you could do options like that but like i said those options aren't even in
random imp
Kai, if you have an ability that you use to avoid predators but at the same time it attracts them to you, means that what are you suggesting makes no sense.
cobalt compass
EpiK, all the things in your suggestion are being wip
- plans for more transparency are made by punch also the roadmap
- turn in place, if you've seen footage of something heavier then the teno ingame rn to state this, i'd be surprised tbh
- yes core mechanics are, as the name suggests, part of the base of the game. but rn we're working/testing things like overall performance so that you as the playerbase can enjoy the current state of the game. if the build is running stable we'll be able to go further.
patience, young padawan
rugged condor
@steady bough basically all the things you have said have been tried or done
there are 2 devblogs on ervima
and collison is Extremely laggy and causes serious rubber banding
hasty radish
I like the idea where the dino's can feel you if you are close by, but it will be even harder to start xD, I can't wait to see it anyway.
warped garden
collision crashed our entire game as does every other addition to it, uwu
4 week long patch to make frame decay worse oopsie
A New and Improved roadmap coming Soon that we’ll totally follow through this time owo
you think we’re incompetent?! how dare. look at all these scraped maps we made
inner orbit
*scrapped
errant tartan
when a dinosaur is running through bushes it would be great to hear the bushes rustle as a dino runs, i think that would make the game feel a little more alive and responsive, but i know the devs are working on a lot right now so prob not viable
inner orbit
This isn’t really a feedback discussion thing
It’s more so something that should be on feedback
fierce dawn
I would like to congratulate the whole team devs etc. I had reported a bug that froze my fps at 30fps when i played with my native resolution (2560x1080) monitor ultrawide. And i had to play with 1920x1080 to get 60fps. But now, with this new recently update i can play with my native resolution (2560x1080) 60fps. Thanks all you!
frail sigil
@bold palm There is a way you can have both downloaded for easier access if you would like me to tell you how
bold palm
@frail sigil yes please
random imp
@worn token that's a 10/10 suggestion. i agree on everything... let's just hope that even with the mess that's happening right now with this game the devs will actually read it and think about what you did write.
worn token
thank you!
rugged condor
-hears easier way to get evirma without re downloading it over and over again-
tell me!
rugged condor
😮
rocky iris
@barren zephyr the dev team didn't abandon the evrima branch. They have other stuff happening behind the scenes that we can't see yet. Plus personal life.
barren zephyr
Wait did I say they abandon evrima? I meant to say they abandon the legacy branch. There fore legacy should have mods
untold yew
I don't believe they can even work on legacy anymore because the code got lost
I could be mistaken though
languid crown
Nah it's not lost justno point on working on it
jade schooner
I think that's the plan, MikeL
barren zephyr
@lusty agate I must say your idea of color customization is waaay better then in game. It’s just a color festival has it is now but the way you explain it could really make skins more realistic and still good looking
lusty agate
Thank you
barren zephyr
@candid fiber good suggestion. The legacy ambush mechanic belongs nowhere but in hell.
rocky iris
Wait did I say they abandon evrima? I meant to say they abandon the legacy branch. There fore legacy should have mods
@barren zephyr
I might've misread, but yeah they have no reason to work on legacy nor add mods to it since the evrima branch will replace legacy all together.
barren zephyr
@rocky iris Yes and that is kind of why they could add mods into it. If it still isn’t going to be for any good use, then why not allow people to customize that build without limits? The devs doesn’t have work on legacy at all, just give people permission to do so and let them do whatever they want with it. Let them even make game breaking mods for all I know if it’s only for a build of the game that isn’t gonna last anyway. People are also hangry after new stuff and only play legacy so I don’t see why mods shouldn’t be in it.
inner orbit
Legacy doesn’t need mods
If anything ‘needed’ mods to interest people to play it’s evrima
barren zephyr
Yes none of them “needs” mods to it. I just thought sense it’s still gonna be a while left till evrima becomes more playable then legacy (LBH its gonna take months till it is), why wouldn’t it be good to keep people entertained with the game with the help of mod additions. It could also reduce some stress for the devs if less people screams at them for new stuff.
Also evrima should DEFINITELY not have mods to it. It’s really new and it would be dangerous if it got it this early.
slate marlin
why in the ever living hell would the developers waste time and resources on implementing a modding feature into the legacy branch that is left to rot away, even deleted in the future?
languid crown
mods are wasted on games like this
for mods to pay off you need to spend time making it compatible and usable, and then ontop of that players need to learn the modkit and then actually produce anything worthwhile for 4 people to play one time
better off just developing the game
barren zephyr
Ohhh... didn’t realize it was gonna take time and money from the developers to make moding a thing
... well then in that case it’s useless
languid crown
yeah and its not worth the time and money, prioritize something else
tepid gate
Of course it would take time any money, very likely a substantial amount of both
If only enabling modding was done by clicking "enable" in the settings
pale prairie
@warm knoll because it's going to be moved to the public branch eventually, evrima is the future of the game (the isle), not legacy.
you can't exactly put a beta update for a game you already have registered on steam up as a separate game.
languid crown
@warm knoll because you would need to buy the game again? There's ways around it
pale prairie
that as well.
warm knoll
flat ridge
ebon crypt
There's a way to have both at the same time. Someone posted the solution somewhere higher up
hoary token
@warm knoll So you wouldn't have to buy another game. And It wouldn't seem like a blatant cash grab.
barren zephyr
@boreal shard man i can't tell if thats a shit post or not but if not. for 1: if they wanted to add all the things evrima has like body dragging, seamless growth, etc etc. that would require digging up 4 years of old code that was barely useable to begin with and tearing it to shreds. it would've taken longer to even do that anyway. so they made a new game. and evrima is just an extension title of The Isle.
i'd encourage you to actually do research of your own before making a suggestion like that
@boreal shard Evrima is still the Isle, it's The Isle but brand new and their current goal is to transfer everything from legacy to Evrima before they can switch to Evrima as the main build. So there is no point focusing on the old build.
the old build is garbage anyway
True
However I will say legacy still feels more like a real game then Evrima which is still in a somewhat beta state.
But as with all things just gotta have the right patience
i'm not even gonna touch that pause mechanic on a multiplayer game
barren zephyr
oh wait i read it wrong
ebon crypt
I think they meant to stop developing mechanics for now and focus on adding new dinos first
Not a good idea imo
barren zephyr
yeah i just read it like that but even then that's a dumb idea
What's a dumb idea?
adding new dinos instead of mechanics
which is what legacy did and look where it is
Aye, they really should focus on polishing things out first
@terse timber adding dinos first instead of mechanics got us legacy. and the devs are avoiding repeating legacy
mighty girder
Legacy was playable at least
and functioned
and was fun
evirma is a cake that got taken out of the oven 30 minutes too early
and like I get they had to release it people were getting impatient
its taking too long for reasonable meaningful progress
barren zephyr
The only other animal they could at this early would probably be Ovi since they've got to add a omnivore to see how it's mechanic plays out
it's the base of the game. when the isle first came out it was kinda gross
i'd argue the same for legacy
mighty girder
but it made progress
barren zephyr
in 4 years
But Taco_Stego is 100% right adding dinos without properly adding and testing their mechanics is a such a bad idea
mighty girder
it wasnt 4 weeks for a patch that made an existing meaninful issue worse
barren zephyr
legacy had so much back peddling it wasn't funny
mighty girder
And then didnt add anything of major semblance
and this one doesnt?
theyre about to have to shrink everything redo animations and redo the map because they cant get the teleporting to stop
barren zephyr
Also how exactly did it make progress we got one dino every fuckin' year with two attacks great idea bro 
mighty girder
(yes I know its not 100%, but Im just assuming it will happen at this point)
barren zephyr
like i said. early isle didn't have much semblance either
barren zephyr
it was just pick a dino and walk around
barren zephyr
at least in evrima it actually started off with decent mechanics and systems
mighty girder
if we look at it like legos, and evirma is the new base. Where are the other building blocks? If all they needed was a new base? where is the rest?
barren zephyr
they're busy making those lego pieces. hell they some of 'em in storage right now saved for later
boreal shard
@barren zephyr Dude I don't talk about focusing on Legacy. Some of the sandbox dinosaurs have a bug that prevents them from sniffing. Fixing this bug would not affect the development of EVRIMA, as it is a small thing, but it ruins the gamplay of players. Understand that EVRIMA should take at least 3 years to be ready.
mighty girder
Decent mechanics? there are no mechanics. You walk around grow and eat. There's no day/night, theres nothing making each dino unique (afaik utah pounce barely functions and teno is the same as maia on legacy it just has multiple attacks which is the new standard), theres no ai, there's no female/male, no nesting, no skins, no customization
At the rate we're going evirma will not be legacys equal for another 2 years, and thats not even getting into the fact that the game will never be finished until humans are added
lilac swallow
Sandbox animals never mattered, even when legacy was the main branch, why would they work on them?
barren zephyr
@boreal shard they fuckin left legacy my guy. nothing new is coming to it
mighty girder
2 years just to get the dinos working not even getting into human bases and guns and functions, then tribal tools and dino enslavement
barren zephyr
also. Seamless growth, actually putting effort into making your dinosaur sound tired when it's low on stam. body dragging which atm is broken but it's better than nothing i'm not saying evrima is perfect. i'm saying it started off with a better understanding of where the game is going than legacy
boreal shard
Sandbox animals never mattered, even when legacy was the main branch, why would they work on them?
@lilac swallow If they do not entertain then take off the game!
barren zephyr
@boreal shard they're gonna do that eventually
lilac swallow
Taking them off the game also requires effort, thats why they are still on legacy
barren zephyr
oh fuck i read it wrong again
eitherway. legacy is abandoned. since it's code/base is absolute garbo. also don't act like legacy didn't run into issues like evrima did
lilac swallow
As a day 1 player i can confirm legacy went throught as much shit as envrima is going
boreal shard
ou know that EVRIMA is a long way from being ready to play, right? The floor of the carriage will be released along with GTA 6! (that nobody knows when, but knows that it is not for the short term).
lilac swallow
Except It wasnt a survival Game, but a sandbox game
boreal shard
Forgive me for my English, I'm using a translator.
inner orbit
My suggestion is mediocre
strange wave
@inner orbit can't see any problems with that, the only thing is that it might fit better on and aquatic expansion with a primarily saltwater map
strange wave
because if its added as a beach and shallow ocean predator the only predators it would face are spinosaurus and some dumb mid tiers trying their luck on the beach
terse timber
@terse timber adding dinos first instead of mechanics got us legacy. and the devs are avoiding repeating legacy
@barren zephyr people were very happy with the old mechanics for years. Just give us decent mechanics and add dinos.
ebon crypt
Yeah, but it will still take some time to add all the core mechanics. Then we will start to get more playables.
barren zephyr
it's better to have a functioning game then legacy again
ebon crypt
Idk, it's playable for me at least, but I don't speak for everybody
barren zephyr
well duh no siht. it's legit just the base rn
terse timber
Same
mighty girder
server lag, degrading fps, teleporting
barren zephyr
i can play it just fine. it's just boring
mighty girder
theres too much foundationally wrong
terse timber
People been playing an unfinished game for years
Before this one
Whats the problem now? Just add more freaking dinos so its fun again
Idc if it has bugs or looks wonky
barren zephyr
devs don't really care about fun rn
ebon crypt
I do have the depleting fps issue, but not to the point where it becomes unplayable. I also haven't seen much teleporting rn, but again, that's just my experience
terse timber
Its always been about the people u play with
terse timber
Ye but ark looks stupid as well and ur not playing a dino
mighty girder
you have ideas on how to make it better? Play something else!
ebon crypt
Adding dinos also takes effort. Plus, why have a legacy clone when you can already play legacy? I'd rather let them work on evrima the way they think is right
terse timber
But isle been unfinished for 5 years we can handle this.
Theyre taking their sweet ass time tho
ebon crypt
Yeah, they are using a new engine for evrima irrc. And they have to redo practically everything
terse timber
Theyre making promises they cant actually make happen
ebon crypt
Yeah, didn't they say they are using U4 for evrima? I think they were using something different for legacy, but I don't know.
barren zephyr
no it's been unreal 4
ebon crypt
I might be mixing something up though
barren zephyr
they might change to unreal 5 once that releases
ebon crypt
Oh, is no one playing legacy? Cause evrima servers are pretty empty too atm
barren zephyr
yeah cool cool legacy is dead.
terse timber
Yep.
barren zephyr
legacy has been dead since they left it
terse timber
My friend uninstalled evrima and he said theres no one on legacy
Yea
😂
So. Thats why i say add dinos to make people come back
After that they can work on mechanics and shit
Just give us more to do
barren zephyr
they don't really care about number of players rn
terse timber
Yea they alrdy got all their money
ebon crypt
Haven't switched back to legacy since evrima, so I wouldn't know, but I thought it was looking better than evrima player wise
barren zephyr
nothing to do with money but sure
barren zephyr
i'm gonna assume you know nothing about the development process so far
terse timber
But thats more for mass accounts
silver zephyr
terse timber
No idc i just want more dinos. Im not gonna waste my time into doing some homework about the game. I been playing since release and id keep playing but not with nothing
barren zephyr
then don't play it
terse timber
Im not actually atm
barren zephyr
no ones begging you to
barren zephyr
come back when dinosaurs are in
barren zephyr
your circle doesn't make a whole lotta sense
ebon crypt
They aren't going to add a bunch of clones again. If all of the dinos are exactly the same and aren't unique it'll just be legacy 2.0
terse timber
Meanwhile u just said it 😘
barren zephyr
that doesn't mean it fuckin makes sense what?
inner orbit
WTF is going on!?
barren zephyr
thats you're individual circle. cool not everyone cares about adding new dinos. i'd rather have a game that functions instead of literally repeating legacy. Hell why the fuck go into the effort of making an entirely new game if it just goes into legacy. that logic fails to make sense
ebon crypt
They want to further flesh out their creatures to make them actually fun. Diets, new bleed, night/day cycles should be priority atm to make things actually fun and have a base to work with adding new creatures. Believe me, I want new dinos too (can't wait for troodon), but mechanics are priority rn and that's that. We aren't getting legacy 2.0
slate marlin
@primal dust #🔧-legacy-troubleshooting-🔧
barren zephyr
I think adding basic mechanics like that day/night cycle, weather, grouping, and nesting should take priority and then new mechanics and dinos. Cause at the moment theres literally nothing to do and the environment never changes. It gets old real fast.
Just my 2 cents
slate marlin
that's true
barren zephyr
i agree full heartedly
hasty radish
@derp Personally I only play at EVRIMA
strange wave
@inner orbit next time you make a doc, make it a google doc instead, just easier for people
inner orbit
Ok
random imp
it almost seems that years of work are not needed to create a great game, strange right? ya all crybabies make me laugh a lot.
Evrima was released not long ago, and being it a brand new game, with a brand new code it's normal for it to have issues. like Taco said, they are building all the little pieces that will one day be used to built the castle that is TheIsle and rush adding dinos just for the sake of it is only harmful to the game: they don't want to repeat the errors that were made with Legacy.
imagine having 20+ copy and paste dinos (like Legacy has) again without the proper individual mechanics lol
vast wolf
its still a bary clone. bary can do that as well. beachcombing is not unique to any one animal and some of the ideas you suggested can become programing nightmares.
inner orbit
Mrgharial
Is it as good at swimming?
Replace bary
It’s a garbage sucho clone itself
@random imp what do you mean?
In my first post of it I said it would be cool down the line
If a mainly aquatic map is ever added
vast wolf
if the aquatic roster is ever filled out at all, sure it could work. until then or until we know anything about it its just a bary clone.
ashen wasp
Pannoniasaurus looks.... interesting, but I don't think another swamp-dwelling carnivore is needed at this point.
mighty girder
Unpopular opinion but here we go! : No more new dinosaurs (As in no adding more to the already existing planned list) until the game is out of alpha/beta/EA whatever the hell you wanna call it and complete (Humans, Tribals, Strains, Dinos, all of it)
Its got too much planned already at this point, if they just keep adding who knows when it'll be finished in a 1.0 state
vast wolf
just add diplocalus and koolasuchus/broomistega
low tier and mid tier aquatic amphibians.
mighty girder
no
they shouldnt worry about adding anything else on top of the todo list
theres too much as it is
vast wolf
right now they should get things sorted. eventually they should add amphibians.
inner orbit
@trim field
That’s not really meant for feedback
It should probably go on off topic
trim field
heres the feedback, fire your shit boss.
ebon crypt
I mean, feedback is more meant for your thoughts/opinions or ideas for the game, not really for posting someone else's video assay on the devs
ebon crypt
The Isle is Dondi's personal project iirc, so can't really "fire" him, but as some people stated, he would make a great creative direction manager (is that what they're called?)
languid crown
im pretty sure thats the only thing he does now anyway
trim field
i bet the development would go faster if he diddnt donate 4k to every lil streamer just to feel good about himself with the companies money
digital bone
Lol
languid crown
once they get a good map maker in his job is purely theoretical as far as we can see
and how would it go faster? if you think throwing more money at things makes it go faster you have a very basic understanding on what goes into creating a product
trim field
welp iv done my part.
inner orbit
The person left
untold yew
Lmao
frigid cosmos
tf was that
untold yew
Someone that came to whine due to Sid's video
languid crown
some dragon furry
barren zephyr
imagine being a furry
hasty radish
The Velociraptor's do not hunt in groups. So neither do the Utah's? Besides I can't wait to see them with feathers.
barren zephyr
fuck if i know
hasty radish
@barren zephyr Know what?
barren zephyr
utah groups
hasty radish
Yes but it's true xD
barren zephyr
speculated but yeah i doubt velociraptors grouped
vast wolf
as far as we know utah is just speculated to have hunted in groups. theres fossil evidence of velo hunting in packs.
ashen wasp
@silent grove I don't believe the "attract call to send a group invite" feature will be exclusively how grouping is accomplished-- I think it's more of an "ease of access" thing; if you run into a random player and spontaneously decide to try and group with them, using the attract call provides a more streamlined way of sending an invite out than asking for their name, scrolling through a list, etc.
silent grove
I really hope so!
jade schooner
i feel you in the ovi eyes
vestal rune
also they're meant to be adding a better spawn system which allows you to spawn closer to your friends or group, but idk when that's planned to be added
severe idol
I think that local spawning will need worked on. It'd be really disjointing for your friend to just pang into existence nearby. They'd have to make some sort of LoS breaking thing and work it out so it doesn't look like someone's just farted into life.
vestal rune
oh their idea for spawning is that you get airdropped in through a crate, it applies to all methods of spawning(apart from nesting)
severe idol
I like that one, but it may not be added for a bit.
vestal rune
ye I suppose, untill then maybe they could make sure you spawn in foilage or something of that nature
crystal trail
@mighty girder I'll push forward your suggestion about it being a server option
mighty girder
ty punch <3
ashen elm
I don't know, I kinda disagree on no group damage reduction. Yes outplays should matter, but it makes sense to make grouping do less damage.
untold yew
I'd say having it optional would be a good way to round it out
Some people will probably very much dislike the damage reduction, so being able to have servers without it will keep that side of the player base happy
covert birch
In the process of making damage reduction on grouping a server option
also make friendly fire trampling one too
Imo parents need to yaknow, actually watch where they step near nests
silver zephyr
i mean tbh being in a group by default is an advantage so idk why you need damage reduction but thats just me so 🤷
ashen elm
Because grouping is going to be a more dynamic mechanic in a lot of ways. Possibly group targeted attacks, leader vs group member missions, etc...
I feel for solo players, but it seems like lots of mechanics are going to be added for grouping. On the upside, at least groups will have a hard time hiding.
covert birch
Wonder how group damage reduction will play into that stuff involving fighting for dominance in herds n packs n shit
ashen elm
Probably less chance for kil... unless you want them dead. 
covert birch
if it aint a fight to the death it aint a real fight
ashen elm
covert birch
Ngl making friendly fire less of a threat is gonna make playing shit like velo and herra much more boring
Makin em kill/harm eachother for me was like the best strat
ashen elm
You can probably still make them run into each other if collision works like intended.
Though smalls vs apex was going to be nerfed anyway with trample.
covert birch
they cant trample ya if your so small you are smaller then the grass and cant be seen
ashen elm
Compy moment
covert birch
chad moment*
Also just saw
"Species Group Capacity"
In the roadmap
Hope this stays as a customization server option and/or isnt applied whatsoever
Food being what limits group sizes is much more effective imo
ashen elm
I want food to limit them too.
Make it like real animals where the leader likes to hog the good stuff and the weaker members get less and less food. Gotta think twice if you want to group if you are not favored
covert birch
just be a female
Your alpha utah docktah erper lord will simp for ya plenty
ashen elm
hopefully haast makes doctahs extinct 
probably not
covert birch
just add more ramps and make crates without ramp unaccessable via jumping
that will be hte death of docktahs
ashen elm
Hmm Dilo jumping...
jaunty summit
I feel like the devs are shooting themselves in the foot by not providing at least some form of timeframe for the public - ofc things go sluggish if everyone can work on anything for as long as they want
covert birch
the addition of a timeframe would prolly jsut cause more complaints in the case they arent met due to popped up bugs n such
supple saffron
Well what they have already for the public seems good enough, from what I've read I think its wanted to keep some of the time framing more private to prevent false etas and people bitching about updates
jaunty summit
That much I understand, but I don't see what would be wrong with putting something like Q3 2020 onto certain patches
supple saffron
Things can seem sluggish to you but actually working on the project is different from the consumers pov
crystal trail
Estimated dates is something we can look into in the future, right now we're already displaying a pretty large amount of information in the form of task lists. You'll be able to get a better idea in as to when a patch is closer to launch based upon those checklists.
slate marlin
Estimated dates is something we can look into in the future, right now we're already displaying a pretty large amount of information in the form of task lists. You'll be able to get a better idea in as to when a patch is closer to launch based upon those checklists.
@crystal trail correct me if I'm wrong, but you said before the roadmap would be updated every Wednesday (dev meeting day) right?
crystal trail
@slate marlin Every meeting I'm going to collect task list information and update accordingly based on what information I'm given. Then I'll make roundup posts so people can easily see what was changed. Keep in mind however that team members may tick off certain tasks at any point, in fact a few things were ticked off of grouping earlier
slate marlin
Aight, sounds good
hasty radish
Me I like this system of groupe :)
@vast wolf I would like to see links to a fossil site that proves that Utah's people lived in groups, so I can take a look at it. Please
languid crown
@gloomy flint AI have senses, if your crouching down they shouldnt be able to see you till you get close, they also evaluate based on the difference in stats whether or not they want to attack you or not
sand oar
Yes, AI have senses (seeing, hearing) and will act depending on the situation.
They also have a lot of different behaviors.
You will be able to sneak up on it or lose sight while running trough the jungle. The AI don't know where you are until it sense you.
They will roam, Herd together, calling for help and communicate trough calls.
crystal trail
@gloomy flint Ai are a server option
cobalt compass
also AI is still under heavy development
gloomy flint
Alright alright, this is information I needed
crystal trail
Also in future server owners will be able to enable/disable specific ai species
gloomy flint
That's good, thank you
cobalt compass
yay Rex-only AI
crystal trail
Or even playable species and humans
hasty radish
So good, and put MODT ;)
cobalt compass
basically, all options you think that should have a switch will have one
hasty radish
@gloomy flint i OK with you
cobalt compass
on a second look, rex ai makes sense...
if sucho and deino are the largest predators without competition, whos gonna keep them in adequat numbers? rex ai enters stage
inner orbit
Idk you wouldn’t want AI
ebon crypt
I think that's a great idea, HellShade. It's like how planes are able to still land just fine, even if the engine stopped
rocky sable
i would think they would either land or conserve energy and glide depending on the situtation , if they are coming back from fishing and need to rest , go land on a rock or tree but , on the other hand you could have been resting and have little to no stam so you would just stay in the air gliding and slowly losing altitude instead of going straight down to land or even gain a small bit of stamina from gliding and not using any from flapping wings or moving.
ebon crypt
I think that gliding itself should consume very little to no stamina (depending on the situation). Flapping your wings to gain altitude and take offs should cost the most stam
hard willow
Wonder if they will be able to attach themselves to trees/rocks etv
ebon crypt
Very unlikely for them to be able to hang down trees like bats, but perhaps being able to grab a tree with their wings? Kinda like this:
hard willow
Yeah that's what I mostly imagined
ebon crypt
Could be fun, a good way to get out of range of predators without having to fly very far
hard willow
Yep
tepid gate
Any damage reduction to groups is op, you should not be allowed to go unpunished for making a dumb play.
ebon crypt
I agree that damage reduction is a stupid mechanic. Perhaps make it a server option so some people would be happy, but I say just don't add it at all
random imp
damage reduction makes sense, but like Ryk said it need not to be stupid OP. a max of 20/15% mitigation is enough... you should be punished for your lesser skills
tepid gate
It really doesn't make sense, it allows people to mindlessly attack around their companions knowing that the opponent is going to be hurt more than their friends, even more so with locational where your friends can just stand with their tails towards the business end of yours they would be getting hit by an even smaller portion of your damage. It's an absolutely terrible idea that allows stupidity to go unpunished.
hexed gull
@silent grove You didnt get it (for the group system), you will still be able to invite your friend even if he's at the other side of the map, BUT, they worked on a new mechanic where you can invite someone that's near you by using the attract call
random imp
It really doesn't make sense, it allows people to mindlessly attack around their companions knowing that the opponent is going to be hurt more than their friends, even more so with locational where your friends can just stand with their tails towards the business end of yours they would be getting hit by an even smaller portion of your damage. It's an absolutely terrible idea that allows stupidity to go unpunished.
@tepid gate what part of " not stupid OP" and " 15% mitigation"? if this mechanic gets balanced correctly it won't bother anyone.
tepid gate
even 15% mitigation is already stupid
random imp
but this is still pretty far in the future, we shall see.
tepid gate
It's not, it's going to be included in the next update
It's the least "far future" thing that's on the roadmap by definition
random imp
we don't have an ETA
and this mechanic is going to be touched a lot i imagine, being such a delicate system
tepid gate
"we don't have an ETA" is not an argument, it's literally being introduced in the next patch, that's the closest future development-wise you can have.
And it doesn't matter hot much it's going to be touched as long as it exists. Incompetence shouldn't go unpunished.
ebon crypt
Hey, look at the bright side. At least they didn't completely remove friendly fire
lilac swallow
@silent grove , i think not telling if someone is ai or human is the point, It also helps unpopular dinos to group, as a legacy para player i would prefer grouping with ai paras over being totally solo because no one plays para
silent grove
Yeah i can see that point, but it really doesnt seem great to finally find some others of your species only for it to turn out to be a bunch of robots. At least socially, imo. You might as well still be solo, yknow? No one to talk with or strategize with, just mindless drones.
ebon crypt
There will be a server option so you can pick and choose what dinos are AI and not, so it should be easier to tell. Or just play on no AI servers
silent grove
Also from a carnivore player's perspective, there's something to be said about the relief at knowing your next meal isnt ALWAYS going to ruin someone else's good time LOL
When given the choice between an ava and a player I'll often go for the ava, unless I'm LOOKING for an interesting hunt vs a human
ashen elm
What other dinosaurs are in their arsenal that could be made into as AI? They don't want weak AI, this is supposed to be a survival game and challenging.
I sincerely hope the AI is advanced enough to be indistinguishable from players, but I doubt it will.
ebon crypt
Well the AI will never truly mimic a real player, so it shouldn't be that hard. Plus, you always have a chat to ask
vestal rune
ye they want apex AI to be a huge threat to players, what else could it be apart from rex giga or spino?
silent grove
I have less of a problem with AI apexes tbh, gives the player apexes something to be wary of as well
But i mean the midrange dinos, theyve had so many concepts for new dinos that they have thus far apparently discarded, why not do that?
And keep the small AI as well?
ashen elm
Almost every dinosaurs they have in the basement has had one mention or other of possibly being playable.
Plateo, Pachyrhino, Rugops, etc...
When they are not, people want them as playable. There are no strictly AI species outside of maybe Brachi.
lilac swallow
Also, another point is to have an ecosystem, so the more species with ai the better
ashen elm
True. Often times we have we have way too many carnivorous species, so more AI herbivores would be nice. Or whatever size or type that is missing in the ecosystem.
lilac swallow
Ai ecosystem is a good way to let people what they want without limitations while avoiding unbalances on the ecosystem
@scenic maple ehh, you can se a compass whenever you sniff, telling you in case you missed it
scenic maple
Oh right I meant for evrima lol oops
barren zephyr
@wise ice Too easy to trigger/exploit.
ebon crypt
Nah, rex won't work. Just spawn in a hypo, that'll do the trick 
wise ice
idk was just an idea
tepid gate
There's quite a couple of animals that should probably just be AI-only on the official servers.
wise ice
I was thinking it would help prevent mega herds, I wasn't really thinking about carnivores
tepid gate
There's also a big difference between an animal that's a free meal and an animal that's not completely viable and can be griefed by others.
ebon crypt
They already have the scent system where if too many people stay in the same area they'll amit a scent
tepid gate
If the the latter is a playable - that's a big issue, if the latter is controlled by the AI it's not bad at all.
It doesn't really do much, Rajing.
ebon crypt
Yeah, but it can attract potential predators and such.
tepid gate
It can but... in my experience it doesn't really do anything so far
ebon crypt
I honestly don't really know how to solve the overpacking issue naturally. Unless the dinos who are overpacking get a sort of debuff?
tepid gate
It doesn't seem potent enough in my experience and I am yet to see a situation where it would show me a group that I wasn't aware of
There are quite a couple of ways to solve that.
Probably different for carnivores and herbivores and generally focused on the food they'd have to eat.
In general if players group up into a very large group they should be naturally starving. Although I'm not sure how possible this is as a solution.
For the most part even in the current Evrima which has no AI megapacks don't have much of a problem staying alive.
Perhaps the hunger-time that would get decreased if your group gets too large?
ebon crypt
I guess that diets and food necessity should fix the overpacking issue. No way would a pack of over 3 rexes really be able to survive without at least one of them startving
wise ice
herbis have infinite food with grazing, so if they sit in a field by a stream the herd could grow massive, my idea was mostly to counter that
ebon crypt
Hopefully they figure something out for overpackers
tepid gate
I think that grazing shouldn't replenish food at all
It should be a passive thing that you can turn on which makes it so that your animal doesn't lose hunger
wise ice
I mean it's realistic, but kind of too strong gameplay wise
ebon crypt
Grazing should only give back food if your hunger is below 25%, so you wouldn't at least die
tepid gate
Basically you press a button and your dinosaur starts to passively graze so that it doesn't lose hunger when you wait for someone/something
ebon crypt
I just feel like grazing is a little OP at the moment
tepid gate
I don't think it should give back food at all tbh... maybe below 10%
ebon crypt
Yeah, it should allow herbs to get at least some food back in a dire situation, but it def shouldn't give as much food as it does in current evrima
wise ice
maybe it shouldn't give back any food, but you could graze while Z walking
slow movement without losing hunger?
tepid gate
That's what I think would be the best solution
Something that just turns grazing on and you don't lose food
wise ice
I guess that would need another animation for every herb tho lol
tepid gate
It could maybe regain hunger below 10%
ebon crypt
Well I feel like if you're at 0% hunger, then you should be able to get at least a slimmer of food back
And yes. Slowly being able to walk forward while grazing is a great idea. Adds an extra layer of immersion
random imp
Not being able to tell the difference between a player and an AI is exactly when you understand that is a job well done. that's the main goal.
wise ice
I just wanna know how ai will work, like what aggros to what
cobalt compass
mostly carnies aggro herbs and carnies
minor dome
everyone kills everyone mostly
while teaming despite being carni or herbie
when left with no rules thats how people play
hasty radish
On the other hand, it is strange to still say that the Oviraptor is an egg thief when paleontologists have discovered that the eggs belong to the Oviraptor. And that he died trying to protect his eggs.
ebon crypt
Yeah, but egg stealing ovi a little more unique than just regular, non-thieving ovi.
cobalt compass
yep
trim jungle
Anyone know if the nesting mechanic will include being able to pass down the parents color scheme? It would also be dope if a rare color variant could happen to a dino spawned in as a hatchling.
ebon crypt
The color customization isn't in evrima yet, but I imagine that in the future the parent's colors will be passed down to their offspring
trim jungle
Ahh I hope so. :D
cobalt compass
@lucid pebble as you can see, the roadmap ist complete yet. Update 5 is of unknown content, so are the following updates
lucid pebble
I suppose but I'm not really optimistic on the time scale that the 4 updates plans to hold itself too
we are probably looking at 8-9 months at for all 4 updates to come out
ebon crypt
Don did say something about triggering emotes, like rubbing against trees irrc
cobalt compass
time will tell how long these things take
but i see progress will happen fast after the first update
lucid pebble
real game changer mudrolling is huh
hard willow
Well its on the same topic as yours
wise ice
would be cool down the road to have more “e to interact” type things like grazing and wallowing
hard willow
@wise ice Grazing is also in Current Evirma branch
silver zephyr
i think he is referring to having more stuff like it
hard willow
Maybe.. I honestly should og sleep 😂
wise ice
yeah I meant those are the two so far and more eventually would be fun
tepid gate
I don't understand what exactly you'd want the game to do that doesn't involve interacting with other players. It's a multiplayer game and player-player interaction is the base of the gameplay loop in such games.
Mudwallowing, grazing and so on are for the most part filler activities that don't lead to anything substantial and they really shouldn't.
hasty radish
@tepid gate personally, that's what I was hoping for. I wanted guests from nearby groups.
wise ice
idk if you're talking to me or someone above, but I'm all for player interaction, that's where most of my enjoyment for the game comes from
tepid gate
@wise ice Oh no, I wasn't talking to you, it was directed at Primitive, I should've specified most likely, apologies since that wasn't really clear
novel lotus
@barren zephyr so like in terraria
lucid pebble
I don't understand what exactly you'd want the game to do that doesn't involve interacting with other players. It's a multiplayer game and player-player interaction is the base of the gameplay loop in such games.
Mudwallowing, grazing and so on are for the most part filler activities that don't lead to anything substantial and they really shouldn't.
@tepid gate because the map is too large and it takes too long to find and interact with players. the alternative is to shrink the map (which isn't really something the devs want to explore) so at least give purpose to all this space. gameplay always revolves around going to the hotspot of the map and running around for a few hours. In response to the others, mudwallowing and grazing do fulfill some of what I'm looking for but they have their respective issues. Mudwallowing functionally is kind of useless right now. Maybe if smelling was buffed to be way more visually indicative, then it'd worth wallowing now and then but right now it is far better to just run through the jungle a bunch to lose any players tailing you. Grazing does make grasslands worth visiting but in its current form, it ends up making the gameloop WAY less active. Once you found a grazing spot / water, you are basically set for life. At least with the plant bushes that encourages you to walk around some more. It'd be nice if the varied diets were implemented soon to make grazing not viable as a primary food source tbh.
vast wolf
the devs do plan on adding environmental interactions. just takes a while and they arent supper important.
lucid pebble
weather for example could be used to give the environment more depth. rainstorms could cause rivers to have strong currents or maybe even cause rising flash floods forcing players to avoid water for a bit. heatwaves could do the opposite and draw players in the water otherwise they risk accelerated dehydration or stamina reduction.
vast wolf
water level is already a thing that will change.
errant ore
@novel lotus I love your idea! 😍
novel lotus
thanks (:
frigid cosmos
the static is super annoying but they arent updating legacy anymore
random imp
what part of " they won't be working on legacy anymore" you did not understand? it won't be touched and will remain as it is till it 'll disappear.
@glossy copper
safe galleon
Also the devs haven’t disabled dryo, the server owners have
Some servers still have dryo
Like the officials
hasty radish
@safe galleon oh we can play dryo in EVRIMA?
ebon crypt
No, not yet
tepid gate
It's meant to be added in the 2nd update
ebon crypt
Dryo is legacy only rn. You can check the roadmap to see how development on playable dryo is coming along though
tepid gate
2 updates from now Dryosaurus should be added as a playable, it should be AI only during the next update
craggy scarab
@clever bramble they won’t crash and die but will do like you stated. Devs already said so 🙂
clever bramble
ah ok epic
slate marlin
Tbf, I 100% agree with Ben's suggestion. Swap the order and the first update will be much healthier for the playerbase.
sand oar
slate marlin
besides, playable Dryosaurus is further complete in development and would be finished way earlier than both Carno, Hypsi and AI Dryo.
then between the time people are playing Dryo themselves and waiting for update 2, they can find bugs that could help with solidifying the development of the AI Dryo
severe idol
Depends on the parts of the player Dryo that aren't done. The amount done isn't weighted - it could be very critical and lengthy utilization a player could do but AI can't.
vast wolf
the roadmap will expand as time goes on.
vast wolf
more information is better.
crystal trail
@sage trench Additional cards will make their way into the roadmap at some point
sage trench
Yeah thanks 😛
crystal trail
@barren zephyr Whilst I do not believe we have any plans to add any server caps for specific animals, we do intend on allowing server owners to enable/disable specific creatures and factions on their servers. So if you'd like to make a server based around a certain time period, we'll be providing those options. Same goes for if you'd like to play without humans, you'll be able to disable those. Or if you're wanting to play as humans with only AI dinosaurs, etc.
@barren zephyr I believe we're planning to add dynamic music in the future.
barren zephyr
slate marlin
hey Punch, sorry that I've been bothering you with questions lately. But is there any chance that the developers sometimes do take looks into new Dinosaur suggestion documents made by players?
crystal trail
Yes we do
exotic lotus
good evening I got banned on teutonic 1 I don't know why I explain myself I attacked an allosaurus then this one attacked me I suffered more damage so I fled and I got banned ?!
slate marlin
oh okay, because I've just finished a big project of mine. Ready to post it sometime this week :)
would hate it if it would get by unnoticed
crystal trail
@exotic lotus This isn't the appropriate place. If you were banned on a player run server you should contact the players that own that server. They aren't affiliated with The Isle or it's development team.
exotic lotus
I have already contacted the admin of teutonic and other player on teutonic discord nobody answers someone a little help me thank you!
charred nova
we really need Stego to be a playable in the first 4 batches
its odd that we have no medium sized herbs
seems like they are making the mistake in legacy in adding big carnivores first
slate marlin
that's funny Damien you say that because you're not even listed anywhere in the Teutonic discord server... a bit suspicious I suggest you pack your problems and either properly join their discord and ask for help there. Posting it here won't get you anywhere
charred nova
Deino Utah and Carno will all be going after tento now
tepid gate
Why though? As soon as Carno comes out I'm becoming a Rat-catcher - it's always been a career I wanted to pursue and with the overabundance of Utahs and addition of Carnotaurus my dreams might finally come true. Who cares about the Tenonto?
slate marlin
that sounds like an interesting career indeed, does it pay good though?
silver zephyr
pays with the flesh of utahs so id imagine its pretty worth
tepid gate
I have no idea, as long as it results in dead Utah bodies lying at my feet - that's payment enough as far as I'm concerned
vast wolf
@warm cloak if your talking about the hypsi threaten then its a work in progress animation. its still very jittery and will be changed and smoothed out as time goes on.
craggy scarab
@charred nova deino is not chasing tenonto down to hunt 😛
molten tulip
Thats how animations early on are supposed to look
You put in the key frames, and then as time passes you put more frames in between
It looks jumpy and sped up but only because there's only keys. You can tell the overall motion is there and it looks great
random imp
I feel like even so early the Hypsi animatuon is great, it really distract you, with all the feather movements, and scares you, being so nervous and shaky.
cobalt compass
^ also its a rather small animal and they move faster in general
random imp
if i really have to criticize something is that the eyebrows do not move from the base but they "crack" and start moving a bit too far from the attachment with the head. but i guess hypsy is so small in-game this thing won't be noticed.
ebon crypt
Personally I feel like hypsi's animation should be toned down a little. The eyebrows move way too far, just some twitching is enough imo.
cobalt compass
this thing is at may size as big as a cat, it needs to use them to intimidate threats to appear bigger, so thats okay for me
ebon crypt
I like how it raises its tail and stuff, but I just feel like "making its eyebrows do the splits" is a little too far
Looking at the animation, I think that it would be better to just make it ruffle its tail feathers and splay them out more to appear bigger. The eyebrows is what bothers me the most
minor junco
it's a very unique animation, and will no doubt split opinions. personally, i love how it uses its eyebrows in that animation (just needs more polishing)
imo, that threaten, being so weird, has actual potential for working for it as a last resort. players who haven't encountered hypsi before or seen it on videos may go "what the fuck is this thing? what the hell is it doing?" -baffled and pause for a second before killing it, and that can give hypsi little window of time to spit them in the eye
random imp
but people are not animals ( if you catch my meaning), animals react to aggression and won't attack if something a lot weaker have a firey behaviour towards them just like the mangoose attacking and intimidating the lions. if you show an aggressive behaviour even if you are weak you are probably gonna survive. man does not do this thinking, while playing a predator even if a hypsi player starts spitting and screaming, he's gonna die because the man knows that his stats are lesser than the predator's.
and @mint sonnet that's how mountains usually works. if you can't climb them you need to go for the big route
mint sonnet
@random imp Yeah I know but for games it's just really frustrating, often just getting trapped on the beach cause of all the mountains
languid crown
@steady bough I know this isn't very clear but if you go to the nesting tab and open up what tasks need to be done you'll see one labled as 'hatchling nutrition' based on what's been said by the developers in the past I think that's the special plants for herbivores that you were talking about
cobalt compass
bleed is part of the core mechanics, alongside with day/night cycle, nesting etc. when these are ready and implemented, things will move quicker and become more fun in less time
languid crown
bleed, bonebreak and crowd control will most likely all come at once, maybe with grappling as well
slate marlin
if they'd do it in the form of a huge combat update, I welcome it
cobalt compass
i hope so²
honest sparrow
I’m pretty sure Ptera crest dimorphism was confirmed a while ago, and sexual dimorphism won’t alter size iirc
ashen wasp
^^
slate marlin
the tag in your name is such a mood
honest sparrow
Mhm
inner orbit
Tbh if the sexual dimorphism altered size it females would be faster an the males would have more health and attack
People wouldn’t really play female ptera if it was like that
ebon crypt
I feel like stat changes in males and females isn't a good idea imo
slate marlin
^^^^
honest sparrow
I just think the idea of different sexes altering stats is stupid in general
ebon crypt
Fuck, I can't talk
inner orbit
Ik
slate marlin
dimorphism should purely be visual differences excluding size
inner orbit
This game isn’t going for realism anyway so it doesn’t matter
I personally don’t want stat dimorphism
ebon crypt
Stat dimorphism is a bad idea, end of story
shadow stream
^^^^
vast wolf
stat dimorphism is bad in a lot of ways.
hasty radish
nop
vast wolf
not irl thats a thing that has always been a thing. gameplay wise for balance its bad. and then you get people crying because the male dinos are stronger than the females and advocate for female rex to be twice the males weight.
inner orbit
Doesn’t bigger female rex have no evidence backing it up?
lilac swallow
It basically means you have to balance 2x playabes,
inner orbit
It’s based on the female laying the eggs
lilac swallow
It also means if one sex is wey better than the other the specie can't nest
vast wolf
Doesn’t bigger female rex have no evidence backing it up?
except that females generally live longer than males in the natural world no.
inner orbit
I agree though it is like balancing two playables
Then people would complain that the males are too easy to spot
vast wolf
why do you think we have so many more male mammoths than females in the fossil record. the males spend a fair amount of time alone and tend to get caught in natural traps.
inner orbit
As well
lilac swallow
Imagine the male Rex being a bit weaker but also a bit faster it would be stupidly op, a weaker Rex is still strong but now is faster
inner orbit
Ik about elephant behaviour
vast wolf
visual sexual dimoprhism is fine. having to change the stats creates balance issues.
vast wolf
if the female rex or male ptera are 2-3x as large the playerbase will gravitate to one side.
crest for ptera is nice.
vast wolf
@pale sorrel skin customization is not super important to gameplay. i dont see it coming until most of the core mechanics are polished but its not going to be something that wont come in the future. etas are also bad for many reasons.
bleak atlas
@fervent lodge rex ai will bring the horror part of the game on a whole new level 
Im so excited for it 
vast wolf
most dinos will be playable excluding brachi and camma possibly.
maybe oro tacco and velo as well. although they are all in the realm of possibility.
still raptor
why would you want a playable sauropod?
frigid cosmos
big
vast wolf
some people enjoy being a spectator. cough ptera players. and sauropod gameplay takes time for growth. only things that threaten one are strains.
inner orbit
Some people like a peaceful kind of carefree as an adult playstyle
Which as a young one it’ll be quite dangerous
ebon crypt
Playing as a sauropod sometimes feels like playing the mother character, which some people enjoy. You take care of the helpless babies taking shelter under your feet
inner orbit
And the baby play style will be risky in the beginning
And ye some people like being the mother character
vast wolf
playing brachi or camara is like playing bigger slower shant.
inner orbit
I just like to grow up watch the small peasant dinosaurs squabbles and lumber around only being scared occasionally
pale sorrel
Yeah you are right. @vast wolf
still raptor
@crude girder some of the devs either took a break from streaming (ie amarok) or just stopped streaming due to twitches policies.
ebon crypt
Visual did say though that he will stream when he has something interesting to show us (like texturing buildings)
ashen elm
Nice document Basyll, glad to see you finally post it!
still raptor
yep same
inner orbit
Basyll it looks good
You thought of a way to make it an efficient fighter
And a great sounding playable
@slate marlin in your eyes how would they fair on land?
untold yew
Oh yeah Twitch became a field full of landmines didn't it
still raptor
theres no need for hatz
hoary token
^^^^^^^^^^^^
strange wave
@tawdry sphinx hold shift and press a movement key to get up fast
tawdry sphinx
doesn't work if you stuck in animation loop, also uses stamina so I wouldn't use that method to get up if the attacker is at a distance
2 secs isn't long and I think it's very unlikely anyone would enter sleep by accident if it takes 2 secs holding H instead of the current setting that seems to be 1 sec or less. I know I'm old and have fat fingers but I don't think even I could go to sleep accidently if timer was 2-3 sec of holdin
barren zephyr
hatz would be better than quetz
inner orbit
Hatz being better than hatz is subjective
ebon crypt
Hatz being better than Hatz 
barren zephyr
subjective i think not
both are able to fly at ridiculous speeds, both are large as fuck and kinda fragile
hatz has the advantage though
it's more robust and can actually be semi functional on land
in an environment where almost anything can kill you given the opportunity. hatz would have more opportunities than quetz
slate marlin
I think Quetz just serves as the perfect middleground between strength and size. It is shorter and stronger than the Arambourghiania, and it is larger but weaker than Hatzegopteryx.
Still doesn't mean that makes the other two azhdarchids irrelevant though.
If all 3 of them were to exist in TI, the competition would be incredibly challenging
barren zephyr
it would
barren zephyr
even though stego is still pretty big and the size of it ain't gonna matter too much since it's thagomizer still gonna be a biaaaaaaaaatch
ebon crypt
Nah, make it so small that its hitbox is almost non-existent, therefore making stego immortal
granite turret
It’s one of the most famous dinosaurs and your gunna make it small?
Bro nah man
Fuck small stego big stego or go home
ashen wasp
oh, Arambourgiania is taller than Quetzalcoatlus?? is this a new development or did i miss something?? id always been under the impression that Quetzalcoatlus was the ptallest pterosaur, but i guess that was a faulty assumption??
that's cool
slate marlin
Arambourgiania was the tallest pterosaur yes
barren zephyr
Well about Stego, I just remember it to be close to 6 tons irl, CLOSE to 6 tons, but idk, what the estimates are for Stegos mass, it's been like 5-10 months when I last looked it's mass
mighty girder
Last I heard, the bigger stego is a different species
stego in TI was always stenops which is the smaller one
so it shouldnt be a surprise or a shock its getting smaller, theyre just making it the correct size
barren zephyr
plus stego is still stego. thagomizer ain't gonna care
vast wolf
as long as stego is able to defend itself just as good as shant trike anky and theri its fine if its lighter.
however it should be able to fight anything barring strains and large packs as its unable to run from virtually everything.
ashen elm
There is only one Stego species. Ungulatus got lumped into Stenops.
So in TI we're basically using sub-adult Stego...
bleak atlas
Has someone a pic that shows legacy stego, Evrima Stego and Accurate Stego?
barren zephyr
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/711673364267139107/748965399952883722/OIP.png Most completed Stego Skeleton
There
barren zephyr
Marweha wanted pics of what they looked like
inner orbit
Oh ok
barren zephyr
and I got in my mind the skeleton, ''Sofie the Stego''
But I kinda like more if the Bigger species of Stego, would be in game (in evirma) 
but it's Stego, as long as it is in game, I like
@inner orbit and btw, I like the ur Acro ability suggestion
barren zephyr
seems like it's more heavier stego then we currently have in game now
game Stego weights 1, 137- 4883 kg
vast wolf
legacy stego is 4900 evroma is likely to be 3800.
barren zephyr
oh.... damn
vast wolf
dosent mean it wont hit like a truck.
vast wolf
as long as stego is as good if not better than trike at defending itself against the apexes its fine.
im pretty sure.
or it will be less impactful.
barren zephyr
oki, but I hope Stego has a LITTLE bit better chances against apexes, like rex and giga, a little bit
vast wolf
one hit from stego anky or trike should force anything to give up the hunt.
otherwise you risk death.
barren zephyr
yeap
as like, Wouldn't Stego be able to break bone like, mini bone break, like bone break 1-5?
This is Allosaurus bone (some bone, dk which one) and Stego, did that
cobalt compass
stego will possibly do immense bleed and raw dmg
barren zephyr
but a chance of that (if stego gets that) would it have like 5-20% chance?
vast wolf
with animals possibly having organs stego could be masterful at taking them out.
bonebreak wont be chance.
if an anky hits something in the leg it breaks the leg. if a rex crunched down on a leg the leg gets broken.
slate marlin
@jade schooner really digging your map suggestion of Thenyaw, it's superb
inner orbit
@barren zephyr that’s not a suggestion
hasty radish
personally the new group system. Is what I expected the most, it will make the game even more epic, and harder x).
and also avoid too big groups of players.
and then even if you don't know the map, you can give your coordinates to the others
lament finch
I just feel like its something that should be optional. A lot of non official servers already have rules in place for "too big groups" and even with coordinates it's still going to take a while and be frustrating. If people enjoy this mechanic then they're welcome to play with servers on it, like official, but I don't believe it should be enforced on people and servers that absolutely do not want a mechanic like this.
mighty girder
@lament finch Afaik the option to add people to group via server list is still gonna be there, its just this is a new option to do it as well in case you dont know someones steam name. Not 100% sure though, take it with a grain of salt.
lament finch
Here's hoping, I'd vastly prefer if it was an either or kind of situation as opposed to 2 calling being the only way to group
hard willow
I am hoping that the spawning will be more dynamic so you can pick parts of the Island where you wish to spawn so it would be easier for friends to spawn next to eachother while still not super close. @lament finch
That would make the proposed group thing easier for friends to find eachother etc.
hasty radish
Boff
lament finch
Potentially, though I still think there'd be issues there in the case of say, new players joining the isle and wanting to join groups, but not being able to if its a 2 call only grouping. Or people wanting to group up outside of their immediate friend group with people roaming the map looking for people. I just think overall a 2 call only grouping system would create more problems than anything
Though it could be a really good mechanic if its paired with grouping from the player list like it is currently in legacy
icy lion
ceratos not going away, its really not that big an issue
lilac swallow
Someone is mad x dino they like comes after y dino they dont like
icy lion
big time
lilac swallow
At least cerato is confirmed to come, unlike brachi which is confirmed to NOT come, yet here i am not bitching
tepid gate
In most survival games you can't just add someone from half a map away. I think it's a realistic and immersive thing also if you can choose where to spawn you can just spawn in the same area as your friends(although those can be invited through steam as far as I'm aware).
All in all sounds like a much better option than the old system.
terse hornet
also with interactive maps being a thing outside of the isle and people tending to give locations names, it'll be pretty easy to meet up with friends
jade schooner
At least cerato is confirmed to come, unlike brachi which is confirmed to NOT come, yet here i am not bitching
Brachi is coming. Just no confirmed survival/playable
fallow cypress
I believe every animal is confirmed to be playable eventually besides pue but yes brachi would be mainly Ai
terse hornet
playable in sandbox ^
lament finch
In most survival games you can't just add someone from half a map away. I think it's a realistic and immersive thing also if you can choose where to spawn you can just spawn in the same area as your friends(although those can be invited through steam as far as I'm aware).
All in all sounds like a much better option than the old system.
I still think it should be a toggleable server option at minimum. Not everyone wants to play heavy realism and immersion, because not everyone who plays the isle is here for intense dinosaur roleplay. I know myself and several other people don't want to struggle to group up and meet people and play the game . I do really hope they just have it as an option as well as the list grouping
lilac swallow
Brachi is coming. Just no confirmed survival/playable
Thats what i meant
tepid gate
It has nothing to do with roleplay of any kind, it's simply a matter of not being able to invite people you don't know from halfway across the map - again you are supposedly meant to be able to add your friends to your group through steam(unless there was some change when it comes to that however I haven't heard anything about it). So this basically makes it just impossible to spam "U for Utah group" in the global chat in the hope of finding a party. If you bump into other Utahs you don't know and wanna pack up with them? Sure, you can do that. If you want to invite a friend with whom you decided to play the game? You can do that too. You just can't spam "C for Carno group invite" and treat it as a viable strategy of finding packmates.
random imp
@tepid gate best excuse to abuse admin commands, nice try buddy.
tepid gate
That's exactly why it's on a server that's designed specifically for that
You go there just to grow yourself and test stuff with a friend, you don't go there to play
random imp
There is a team to test this things. Common playerbase do not need admin commands to abuse.
tepid gate
That's basically a poor man's sandbox gamemode since we didn't gget it
How do you abuse growing and healing yourself exactly?
random imp
By healing and growing yourself.
tepid gate
I can live without teleporting yourself to others although wasting time to travel halfway across the map is also time consuming
and how does that count as abuse in your mind?
random imp
Apply for QA
tepid gate
I don't want to be in the QA
random imp
So you can trst this stuff
tepid gate
I want to play the game
random imp
Then play the game without admin commands
tepid gate
and I was told to provide recordings of specific bugs occuring
random imp
If one have it then all the others want it. And this 'd inly create chaos
tepid gate
This isn't for all the Evrima servers, I want a specific one used just for this so that I don't have to regrow a dinosaur hoping the bug finally reoccurs
What others want it?
I want every player to be able to grow themselves at their wish
inner orbit
What’s going on?
What’s going on?
What’s going on?
What’s going on?
I’m spamming now
tepid gate
on one specific server designed specifically for testing things and recreating bugs that they encounter
random imp
Again, there is a team to test this stuff. If you want to be usefull apply for QA
tepid gate
I don't want to be in the QA though? And people keep repeating that the players playing Evrima build are basically testing a beta-version of the game(assuming it's even in the beta-phase right now)
Why not give them the tools to do that then? It's basically like saying that someone is absuing lack of growth on a sandbox server in the legacy build
I'd preferably make that suggestion about introducing an actual sandbox gamemode but that's definitely too much work and the last thing the team needs right now is more work
tepid gate
To be slightly more specific about which bugs I want to test out specifically:
- Utahraptor sometimes gets stuck in place unable to turn around, the only input that works then is the left mouse button attack. It happened two times to me so far and once to my opponent, it's obviously a certain death mid-combat so unless you're recording at the time when it's happening you won't be able to report this bug.
- Utahraptor sometimes drops onto the ground after disengaging its pounce from the Tenonto(while still having stamina). It's really inconsistent and I can't say why it happens, furthermore on at least one occasion when I was testing it with another player I was on the ground from their perspective while on my screen I was just stuck mid-air after disengaging the pounce. This might be to do with either being hit during the pounce or due to the angle at which you pounce a Tenonto - could also very well be something completely else that I'm not taking into account - those are just my hypotheses that I can't freely test.
In general those are mainly the bugs with the pounce which unfortunately can't be recreated unless you have a fully grown Utahraptor. Another option is to allow the juvenile Utahraptor to pounce but I have a feeling that it's neither a good idea nor a possibility at the moment.
bleak atlas
Guys what to think about my roadmap suggestion?
Is it an good idea in youre Opinion?
keen estuary
I'm just saying if they give cerato the boot on more Time I'm never playing the isle ever again
covert birch
i mean, as much as i do agree cerato would be a better choice hten lets say rex for example
idk if its really anything to get too antsy over especially with how different cerato is planned to be from the average joe dinosaur
Its full on trash can man and cannibal which sounds really cool
keen estuary
I'm tired of them hyping up cerato just to slam his head back into the pavement
covert birch
plus most of the choices found on the roadmap kinda make sense to be added soon
Like nesting and ai two of which are core mechanics
And since fish is part of ai well makes sense to add that soon along with animals who work with it
silver zephyr
cerato is still happening
also cerato is a small and is probably coming rather soon compared to other dinos
outer condor
If they remove cerato it will just be wasting a good asset
covert birch
Like idk if cerato has any core mechanic that it can come along iwth
That would make its addition specifically more likely to happening sooner
I guess bleed? but lotso animals have bleed
They arent removing cerato
barren zephyr
make cerato burrow
covert birch
they just didnt put it on the new roadmap
silver zephyr
cerato would probs come with the new gore system cause cannibal and eating rotten corpses
silver zephyr
maybe kentro cause impale
covert birch
🤷♂️
keen estuary
But it doesn't need that to as it is said to be a brawler
silver zephyr
what
cerato is gonna have lots of options
since its gonna be a brawler it can probably engage in fights and bully stuff off corpses which it can eat
covert birch
Gamer, the whole idea is too add animals along with core mechanics that make sense for em
The gore system which atm is uncompleted (you can tell by the fact we dont have all the skulls n such) would be the core mechanic if any to come along with cerato,
So the fact that cerato isnt being added, is prolly due to the fact the gore mechanic is prolly also not complete
keen estuary
I really dont understand why stego came up didnt they learn there lesson with freakin tenontos
silver zephyr
what
covert birch
What do you mean?
keen estuary
Stegosaurus and rexes dont
covert birch
What lesson with tenontos do they need to learn
Cuz well, rn tenontos pretty fucked
keen estuary
Not really
covert birch
the poor performance on servers + utahs excessive speed causes utahs to teleport quite often, which makes combat for tenonto quite difficult
keen estuary
They can slap the hell out of a raptor yet there adding an apex herbi
covert birch
which is why tenonto atm is in a poor spot
it can slap the hell out of raptor since its about 3x larger then raptor
tenontos 2000kg compared to 700kg raptor
yet 2 raptors
Can still beat it
and meeting 2 raptors isnt that hard
covert birch
one can but generally thats cuz teleportation not actual skill
keen estuary
Not really only if the tenoto sucks
covert birch
or if its lagging with how shit performance is atm
keen estuary
Well same can happen to the Raptors
covert birch
not as much since tenontos arent as fast so teleportation doesnt occur as much
keen estuary
It still does
covert birch
To a much lesser degree yes
Remember that the two apexs being added are also ai (hell stegos being added at the midtier size
Meaning you can easily crank up their rarity in spawns making them not much of a problem
Sucho and deino on the otherhand tho 
silver zephyr
haha 2 pseudo apexes in update 3 go brrrrrrrr
covert birch
but anyways returning to the original thing, cerato will prolly be added once the gore mechanics are complete, cuz thats the core mechanic that makes the most sense for it
keen estuary
No stego is an apex
covert birch
Nope
keen estuary
It only isnt one in legacy
covert birch
its getting downszied from legacy size
keen estuary
Yeah it is
covert birch
Punch literally confirmed this about a day ago
we are most likely getting the dark green one
which is a midtier
keen estuary
Its has a sub adult which makes it an apex
icy lion
oro has a sub stage
keen estuary
And stego still has alot of damage
icy lion
whats stegos damage in legacy?
keen estuary
Stego hit as hard as a rex
honest sparrow
That is a fat lie
icy lion
plus theres no reason to look at legacy, everythings getting redone
covert birch
Remember stego is yaknow
A sandbox animal so its legacy stats are being redone
keen estuary
And can stack 30 bleed
covert birch
Snadbox animals stats dont really matter since all of em are being reworked
also ptera its true, but weight thing changes it
but who cares cuz again, its sandbox
hell bleed aint even in by the times stego is lol
keen estuary
And plus it is stupid that bite force determines damage cause to most herbis bite doesn't mean shit cause they are most likely not going to bite the carni
covert birch
^
icy lion
stegos "biteforce" is its tail swing
keen estuary
Exactly
icy lion
so whats the issue
covert birch
it doesnt make sense but its better to keep it there for simplicity's sake on the stat menu
keen estuary
In my opinion they should change the wording
icy lion
idk what to though, "Power" or "force" seem too vague. im not great with words tho
keen estuary
And plus u don't know if they will be mid tier cause trikes aren't very big apexes
covert birch
attack power
sounds so bland but its generalized
Gamer, the weight is what im referring too
That stego is 4 tons
Rex is 9 tons
keen estuary
And across aren't apexes and look at there size
icy lion
weight matters more than size and acro is waaayy too big
covert birch
B/c of a bug which is why the camera is wrong
Same applies to herra alberto and anky
keen estuary
Size doesn't mean shit when saying like tigers are apexes but so are eagles and u see the size difference between the two
Same goes for dinos too
covert birch
Ok so, the dark green stegos tail here isnt high enough to defend itself from a rex https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/423939730544132096/749460965137055754/M5lc3MT.png
icy lion
its different when theyre in the same ecosystem and interacting directly with each other