Sounds like a tad bit of tampering was done
#general-feedback-discussion
arctic kiln
feral wedge
topaz epoch
@steady copper There is no known sexual dimorphism in T. rex
barren zephyr
bruh rex without bonebreak is dead
it gets 1 bite on prey and it keeps it their
otherwise prey runs away
valid flower
its hit box is op
coarse shell
its hit box isnt op its just broken lol
all rex is to you is op
giga is more op than rex considering it can kill like 90% of the survival roster
cuz speed
what giga hunts, rex cant get cuz its fat as fuk
so yeah its in a shit spot rn. removing its bb would be awful
unborn quail
The hit box was fixed last I recall on Dev branch
And as it stands right now
It needs it due to having such low damage without the Multiplier
barren zephyr
Why does no one understand
If u get caught by the biggest carnivore in the game its 100% ur fault
Slow af if u get caught its ur fault
Loud af
Its no op its so shit rn
jovial arch
👆
I have never understood the whole Rex is op thing
Who cares if it beats everything in combat if it can only catch 1 thing well?
Like, it barely it needs to be within extremely close range to anything not trike to catch it in ambush
Only a tad more than the length of its head away
This is a survival game not a battle royale
Honestly if it wasn’t for ai Rex would practically be unviable even with 10% max hp damage
steady cosmos
valid flower
Carnivores are everywhere
90% of a server is filled with carnivores
no shit your gonna get caught.
split notch
What do you think the tail club was for?
bold fjord
defending themselves
fast cipher
@valid flower what server are you playing on? And what map?
bold fjord
i understand rex having legbreak, but an herbi doesnt need it since he doesnt need to kill other dinos
barren zephyr
Biggest reason why anky is of no concern is because it isn't in the main gamemode as a playable (hopefully in the future it will)
bold fjord
true
barren zephyr
And because it isn't there, we don't need to touch it
Though denying anky legbreak due to being a herbivore is wack imo
valid flower
@fast cipher Been an adult rex 2 times.
bold fjord
i just think legbreak doesnt fit to herbis
umbral prairie
it will probably break bones once combat is getting a rework
split notch
True it isn't a concern right this moment, but in the future it would make sense for it to shatter bones
bold fjord
carnis that hunt kinda make sense even if its limited to rex as of now
fast cipher
Okay mr Jerry explain to me how it’s OP
umbral prairie
because if it hits ur slow
fast cipher
Rex has just recently had a big nerf may I add
umbral prairie
but it has to hit first, which isnt too easy considering his shitty sprint speed
bold fjord
would love having cerato with legbreak but getting his sprint nerfed
basically a mini rex
bold fjord
its getting reworked?
unborn quail
Yes.
barren zephyr
Yes
fast cipher
The dev’s have stayed only rex is getting leg break
barren zephyr
Its getting smaller, lighter, and faster
unborn quail
That and cerato is only like this due to Acro animations forcing it to be a large lad
fast cipher
However the rex is sluggish and needs an insane amount of food to survive, usually only 1 rex can be in one area to sustain itself, the rex needs BB to be competitive to stop it from getting ass ridden or packed on by a large group of faster preds (as easy) it also allows it to ambush larger prey, and you’re eventually going to die anyways so if you don’t like that then don’t play a survival game IMO
bold fjord
an alternative to leg break?
balmy marten
if this is the suggestion discussion, Im suggesting to return this juicy good ol' huge variety-based map https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/168016587297652736/278801002315120640/UPDATE.jpg
jovial arch
@balmy marten
no discussion in suggestions
but as to why not
the foliage has improved
the rivers are much better thane everyone crowding lakes
and plus
jovial arch
this version of v3 is the first that's truly decentralized
yes
the number of biomes has gone down
kind of
jovial arch
i'd say what's definitely gone down is variance in biome
but honestly
who used redwoods
balmy marten
it hasnt just kind of gone down its completely gone down
not just redwoods
look at the map
jovial arch
what biomes did old v3 have
balmy marten
therew were 5 different regions
in talking about v4 not v3
even though i loved v3 too
but for different reasons
this map i loved and still love because it was almost defined and clear that there were different regions of the map for different dinos
jovial arch
tbf
i only played the map one time
on the other hand
the current v3 is the best map I've played on the isle imo
I guess the differences in biome could be more drastic
brisk mesa
It had so much Threetails
jovial arch
ok
balmy marten
exactly
jovial arch
I mean
balmy marten
it was so amazingf
brisk mesa
Scrublands.
balmy marten
it isnt just thaty
brisk mesa
V4 also had custom spawns.
balmy marten
progression was a gamemode that was way more fun
brisk mesa
For species.
balmy marten
and you could experience way more dinosaurs and their gameplau
brisk mesa
That isn't tied to the map tho, lex.
balmy marten
throughout one session
brisk mesa
I agree Progression was a lot more fun, but it has nothing to do with V4.
balmy marten
im not just talking about the map
jovial arch
and I gotta go to class
balmy marten
im talking about the way the isle used to be
brisk mesa
Well your suggestion was adding the map.
balmy marten
yes that too
brisk mesa
No, what you posted was just bring back v4
balmy marten
im saying a combination of both v4 and progression created a balanced variety of dinosaurs and food chains
well Im now restating
i wanted to start with that
because i didn't think anyone would reply and that was direct
ur typing for a long time x(
xD
brisk mesa
They canned Progression for a specific reasons:
-
A lot of people did not like being "forced" to play as other dinosaurs before the one they "chose". Granted, I find this to be complete b.s, simply because nobody is gonna sell me that a Juvi Allo is any closer to playing a Allo than a Velo is. Both are small, weak things that need to hide. In progression, thank goodness, you weren,t useless. Unfort, in Survival, juvies are helpless. So IDK how being a Juvi that is incapable of doing shit is better than being forced to play another dino, but whatevs.
-
You cannot really match up all the planned content with the game considering Humans, Tribals, Strains, lore etc all need to fit into the game's main gamemode. Progression only works with dinosaurs in mind. It doesn't leave room for the others. That's an argument I don't see brought up much, at all, but it's perfectly valid and I can't fault it.
-
Progression would inarguably be a much more... expensive gamemode. Which is true in both time and money, for the devs. To make all playables up-to-par quality-wise, make all their gameplay endearing and unique, etc. A lot more costly.
balmy marten
the third reason i would consider but the other two are no excuses to keep the gamemode in until the work for the humans has been completed. It could just be as an option for those who prefer it rather than sandbox or survival.
One other thing that I wish returned was the stats appearing when you would press ins. I know many people say that it wasn't supposed to be a part of the game in the first place but it is the most useful orientation device (more than scent), not just for locating where you are but also knowing your exact stats including health, hunger, thirst, bone break etc.
brisk mesa
Character menu does have the orientation, albeit it's clunky to stop, open, close... very annoying to use atm.
But as for the stats, apparently the devs do not want it to be a numbers game.
balmy marten
yea i get that it was just nice to have because of its utility
pulsar lake
If you remove rex bone break you just break the rex XD
And how did shant can break leg? Ribs okay but not leg
dim umbra
Shant is huge. I can imagin it had probably really been able to break bones
Not on the big creatures. But on the mid tiers and small ones
barren zephyr
it 1 taps most small creatures
thorny lynx
@@valid flower They already removed Rex's 10% damage every time it breaks a bone and now it takes 20 something bites for a Rex to take down a Trike while Trike only needs 14 hits.
coarse shell
and only 6 stomps xd
@thorny lynx the rest of the suggestion = yes, attack speed change = no
thats my thoughts
thorny lynx
His bite is still abysmally slow. The reason why his bite works right now is because he can dish out massive damage.
Maybe his bite won't be as fast as giga, but it could be just a teeny bit faster.
coarse shell
even if the attack speed is changed i dont want it to be fast as giga's
giga's more nimble. rex is a lumbering powerhouse and it wouldnt make sense to me
but yeah everything else i agree with. i just dont want rex to be able to 4 shot gigas and facetank trike herds again lol
thorny lynx
How about
Average the bite speed between giga and Rex, so Rex will have a faster bite, but not as fast as Giga?
Basically, you half the buff and average out the apex bite speed to make the new Rex viable again, but not OP
If I am correct, Rex will now kill Giga in maybe 6 or 7 bites, rather than 4.
I also added a reduction of Rex's bone break chance from 70 to 60%
uneven sluice
there isnt much of a point rn to change Rex before the combat overhaul
The Rex we have rn is temporary
thorny lynx
But the one in live version is still op as all fuck.
Increasing the time Rex takes to get adult will not deter players from playing something that is nearly unstoppable. Applying reasonable debuffs will.
uneven sluice
the rex we have rn isnt op
thorny lynx
In the live version, it is. .8, not .9
Your dev version is shit. Ours can kill gigas in 4 hits and Trikes with 8 and Paras with 2.
uneven sluice
oh I see. Well the Rex you guys have rn will get a nerf
thorny lynx
They would not apply your temp Rex changes to live. They know how much of a disaster it is already.
You do understand Dondi needs to clean up Deathly's mess before he can even think about writing a new line of code for the combat overhaul, right? That takes time. He said it may take a few months.
uneven sluice
All i know is that the combat we have rn will be totally different after the combat overhaul
thorny lynx
True, but that takes time.
At least the devs tried to do something about Rex... Tried.
uneven sluice
There isnt much you could really do. even if they did a lot it wouldnt really mean anything since again combat overhaul will replace every stat we have rn.
thorny lynx
If they could balance the dinosaurs out and finalize them to prepare for the combat overhaul, maybe we would know what to expect.
vestal rune
that would be useless as the combat overhaul would change what these dinos are balanced around
thorny lynx
Even though combat is bite bite bite, you can't play q Utah like you can a Rex. There is strategy with what we have now.
uneven sluice
there isnt much meaning in changes as of right now.
thorny lynx
Well, they could at least make Rex not so OP so people will have incentive to play things other than Rex.
vestal rune
also why nerf rex? it sucks lol
thorny lynx
It sucks in dev, not in live.
vestal rune
even before it was hardly OP, just a bit problematic that it could reliably kill trikes
huh, but the patch notes only talk about some fixes?
leaden night
The 10% thing also glitched its damage hitbox
vestal rune
ah maybe that's what it meant by fixes lmao
thorny lynx
Rex is unviable in dev.
leaden night
And its 22 bites
vestal rune
approximations my dude
thorny lynx
More or less?
leaden night
More
thorny lynx
If you do that, he does more damage
leaden night
Yes
vestal rune
that's the point lmao
thorny lynx
I tried to give a suggestion on how to balance him
He kills gigas in 4 hits and paras in 2.
vestal rune
but you used the thing that they wanted to remove
thorny lynx
Just as a temporary solution until actual mechanics come out.
leaden night
A weight buff is both easier and slightly more useful
vestal rune
^
leaden night
Plus rex still wouldn't be viable anyway
vestal rune
if the % health loss thing really did cause problems then we want to balance rex without the need for it
leaden night
It's too slow to catch shit
vestal rune
that's its gimmick... slow but powerful
though I imagine it'll be more viable once AI comes out
barren zephyr
An outright damage tweak is the other option aside from weight.
leaden night
^
unborn quail
I do recall Hypno already saying the issue was resolved in the next update
thorny lynx
Trike does the same thing but without bone break, I think. It's why his stomp kills Rex in 6 hits.
uneven sluice
the devs need a temporary balancing team before the combat overhaull in my opinion
leaden night
Triceratops does flat damage with the stomp
vestal rune
nah... you can't have an actual balanced game in its current state
leaden night
1000 plus weight advantage
uneven sluice
you can
thorny lynx
Actually...
uneven sluice
its numbers
thorny lynx
Doesn't trike weigh 8 tons?
leaden night
Yes
thorny lynx
Rex weighs 5.6 tons?
unborn quail
Can't have a balanced game without all of the pieces in play
leaden night
Correct
unborn quail
The moment something new is introduced
vestal rune
very little of the mechanics are in to make it balanced, and if you change the balance before the features are in you're gonna have to entirely redo them each time they get added
thorny lynx
I do feel as if Rex needs to be 7 tons and Giga to be around 6.5 tons
vestal rune
ingame weight doesn't matter
unborn quail
No since and balancing all the current things to one another when the moment you introduce something new everything get's derailed
vestal rune
it doesn't represent actual weight
unborn quail
^
vestal rune
I was talking about fluff "feeling" like rex should weigh this amount
obviously it has gameplay use, otherwise why would it be in?
unborn quail
Do remember the current stat system will most likely be more then less obsolete with the new combat system
Weight and such won't have that big of an impact as it does now
etc
vestal rune
ye
barren zephyr
Besides, gonna be honest here, it would be rather difficult to find actual proper, non biased ppl to help balance these creatures
unborn quail
^
thorny lynx
I'm still drooling over Nova's speed suggestions
vestal rune
wtf
vestal rune
why is basically everything getting a speed boost in that suggestion?
unborn quail
The addition of Sucho, reworked Cerato, and Pachy
Allowing Sucho not to get ass fucked and chased down by giga
Which we would need an Allo speed buff for that
Which would lead to everything else needing it
Cerato would need to fit between dilo and Allo, resulting in a higher base speed as is
Etc
Fixing dibble being ran down by giga even though it has no way of defending itself
Getting rid of Giga's obnoxiously long Ambush timer
thorny lynx
Making it so giga no longer outpaces Allo when it ambushes
uneven sluice
@violet magnet Beach spawns literally make me hate V3
thorny lynx
Making it so Dilo can escape an Allo's ambush, now that dilos are more meaty and worth hunting, now.
unborn quail
If your able to escape something's ambush, Then you should actually escape it, Not have said thing that ambushed you on your ass for the next minute or two
Which is the unfortunate circumstance we see with multiple creatures
Allo and Dilo(Somewhat), Giga and Allo
violet magnet
literally i've gotten the exact same spawn three times in a row now
leaden night
And Allo
thorny lynx
Gigas should not be hunting dibbles and allos. It should be chasing paras and Trikes.
unborn quail
Oh no they can hunt them
But said Diablo and Allo should be able to reliably escape
thorny lynx
True
leaden night
They shouldn't be able to remove all options for outplay
vestal rune
gigas should not be killing trikes lol
thorny lynx
But I mean, not hunting them as a reliable food source
leaden night
Giga outruns Dibble with base speed
thorny lynx
Diablos are snacks
unborn quail
Hence why I buffed the guy in my own suggestion.
leaden night
Ye
unborn quail
DIablo is made obsolete atm
vestal rune
ye
thorny lynx
Apex ribs exist for a reason
unborn quail
Everyone knows it
thorny lynx
Replace Maia and Dibble with Anky and Stego and Pachy
vestal rune
the only thing I really dislike about that suggestion is that maia is still faster then dilo lol
unborn quail
Maia, like Para
vestal rune
I don't think a giga should be hunting ankys, also pachys? they have less meat on then diablos lol
unborn quail
Is a problem child
vestal rune
true lol
unborn quail
Can't make it too slow or it gets fucked by packs
vestal flame
Imo maia should be a bit slower for better stam
unborn quail
They should have the option to run
I am tempted to revisit once we have Sucho, Pachy, and reworked cerato, If the changes are't in by then that is
I'm truly hoping it is looked into in some way
bold fjord
yummy
thorny lynx
I know stegos, ankys, and Trikes are definitely rex's staple diet.
They are all slow, but tough to fight.
I feel like Stego should swing left and right with its tail, so two attacks at once.
vestal rune
I feel like that could easily be exploited
thorny lynx
Maybe it can only do that while staying still or walking and only attack once when running.
Kinda how Theri can only do a forward slash when it runs, but can do a 3 combo when walking or staying still.
Tbh, Theri should only attack two times per click. 3 is the reason why it is so cancer.
vestal rune
no... it's cancer because his attacks register multiple times giving him insane DPS
thorny lynx
So, it isn't like Theri does 3 slashes? It is like a Shant hitting Rex on the head twice when it stomps?
vestal rune
yes
thorny lynx
Shit.
vestal rune
you get hit once but get damaged like 3 times lmao
thorny lynx
Like, you should get hit three times. It slashes you 3 times.
vestal rune
I meant with one slash
thorny lynx
Oh, fuck, really?
vestal rune
ye
thorny lynx
Oh my God
Maybe Dondi can separate the slashes by clicking.
That way, one click does one slash.
Then there is a minor cooldown.
uneven sluice
i dont just want to click when i attack something
i actually want a strategy to be implemented into the game
uneven sluice
pretty much
verbal acorn
I think we need to balance herbs to be more of a threat to carnivores during engagements, but not by making herbivores out-right more lethal.
Herbivores should built to have a chance to break the engagement and force the carnivore to disengage. Herbivores should have attacks that can trigger effects such as:
Crack Ribs: this severely hinders carnivore stamina(immediate stamina removal, severe reduction or elimination of stamina generation)to prevent the immediate pursuit of herbs that have survived the attack up to this point. Requires resting to heal
Break Jaw: this prevents the carnivore from biting. Requires resting to heal.
Stun/Stagger: Stuns carnivore, brief period of no biting/attacking(few seconds), and disruption of directional control for 15 secs...this effect has a cool-down for the receiving carnivore to prevent it being repeatedly spammed on a player.
All these effects would have a percent chance of triggering, these effects would contribute minimally to overall HP lose for the attack.
Herbivores gain additional survivabilty without necessarily increasing their lethality(damage output) against carnivores.
vestal rune
though I imagine in the combat overhaul things like this will be added, the percentage chance is a horrible idea
it's the reason bone break is so scuffed up and why it was removed on everyone besides from rex
I'd think majour injuries like these should be based on locational damage
barren zephyr
Once the combat overhaul and locational damage come in, each of these effects could be interesting
Since y'know, playing your chances with RNGesus is never fun
uneven sluice
there should not be a percentage.
vestal rune
percentages make fights based on luck rather then skill
which is the last thing we need
unborn quail
RNG = No Good
coarse shell
@subtle edge coming soon
subtle edge
@coarse shell really ? Oh, i don't know dondi want to realise that x)
@coarse shell and if many dino take a piece of the corpse, we can see the différence ?
jovial arch
@candid fiber
I feel like your system is overly complex
and honestly, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what it's trying to solve
I'd try and pinpoint an issue with the current bleed system, and then work to eliminate that
it sounds cool and dynamic, but overall gain versus overall work doesn't necessarily seem to be worth it
coarse shell
@barren zephyr game doesnt care about realism
doesnt matter if spino was strong irl or not
vestal rune
also even realistically spino wasn't just naturally stronger against underwater creatures lol
jovial arch
@vagrant walrus wrong channel my guy
vestal rune
ye...
vagrant walrus
jade schooner
where did you want to post that, may i ask?
oblique crown
Can't find ai
brisk mesa
Time to read your doc Three.
brisk mesa
Yeah you made mention of that./
jovial arch
I can't even remember how long the old one was
honestly
the old one was kinda bad
undirected
it didn't get the message across
at all
mental sleet
Your focus on niches.
There are simply too many stats for the idea you are proposing to work.
Not only that, creatures do NOT need a niche to be fun, and the opposite also stands tre.
true*
jovial arch
I mean
blazing charm
I took once glance at that doc. Was greeted by a giant wall of text.
unborn quail
@blazing charm seems familiar
jovial arch
yeah
blazing charm
NO
jovial arch
mine is more of a wall of text
blazing charm
I MAKE EM IN PARAGRAPHS
blazing charm
DID YOU THINK YOU COULD HIDE? @unborn quail
unborn quail
mental sleet
I am still here no need to tag me.
mental sleet
You give the players freedom to choose.
jovial arch
and you don't define how something survives
jovial arch
you're not forcing players to do anything
that's the entire point
you change the stats so that it's highly likely certain dinos will hunt certain dinos
as opposed to something just hunting everything
jovial arch
that approach works in a moba, but honestly The Isle is a completely new style of game
my system doesn't force players to hunt things any more than the current system does
brisk mesa
Threetails I have to back David here. In the Isle, as it stands, shit isn't fixed, and it makes it fun, and where skill is actually potent.
Your system makes some dinosaurs downright built with the sole purpose of doing one thing.
jovial arch
full 1.0 giga?
leaden night
2hr Dryo the pain
jovial arch
ok
brisk mesa
Carno Pack that is skilled > Lone Giga
A pair is impossible to beat if both are full and in a VC tho
brisk mesa
yes, and thats a good thing
brisk mesa
jovial arch
is it bleed?
vestal rune
you guys want for everything to kill everything?
brisk mesa
Unskilled players cannot 3v1 their own kind
jovial arch
I am still
brisk mesa
I can.
jovial arch
trying to figure out what they want
mental sleet
I think two carnos killing an adult giga's unwanted, but that is just how the game works atm.
brisk mesa
Not two, jeez, no.
jovial arch
^
brisk mesa
A pack, not some freaking suicidal romeo and julliette
mental sleet
You can thank bleed for that one too.
jovial arch
but im not really sure how im taking skill out of the game with my suggestion
mental sleet
You aren't necessarily taking out skill.
brisk mesa
You are shoehorning players into only being fit to do one thing with a given character.
mental sleet
Bollocks.
brisk mesa
Did you forget that guy killing Gigas with a fucking Para?
vestal rune
are you guys argueing that dinosaurs shouldn't be more suited for certain play styles then others?
jovial arch
but can rex hunt dilo consistently?
brisk mesa
Fire, his suggestion goes just a teeeensy bit further.
jovial arch
not really
vestal rune
I'm still reading it but it doesn't seem that way
mental sleet
that is impossible in the game's current state.
vestal rune
most of the changes seem rather good, and can still allow players to do more skillful things
mental sleet
How is utahraptor being annihilated if anything remotely sneezes at it ''good'' or ''skillfull''
vestal rune
but true, balancing the game in its current state isn't the smartest thing
brisk mesa
A skilled pack can win, atm.
jovial arch
they could
brisk mesa
A bad one can't
brisk mesa
You cucked their weight.
jovial arch
by 100
vestal rune
also utah's weight is going to get cucked anyway...
brisk mesa
That actually matters.
vestal rune
'caus you know, pounce
brisk mesa
he also made pounce only work on herbs
mental sleet
you don't know for sure what will be changed when utah gets its mechanics.
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
just, just throwing that out there
jovial arch
you know, I had a long discussion a while back with someone
granite vigil
How is it meant to be defensive
jovial arch
utah's pounce is fundamentally a gamebreaking mechanic
brisk mesa
Think... Austro right? He can defend against a Carno by pouncing
jovial arch
it gives you free damage, with almost no risk
brisk mesa
A faster, stronger, deadlier dinosaur.
jovial arch
if you make utahraptor able to pounce everything in the game
brisk mesa
Erm
jovial arch
it will hunt everything in the game
jovial arch
look, you see
brisk mesa
Is that attacking or defending?
jovial arch
here's my issue with this entire point
leaden night
Offense is the best defense
brisk mesa
^^^
granite vigil
You’re comparing 2 completely different things
jovial arch
what you're criticizing here isn't balance
brisk mesa
Ok, how about give the guy a fucking spear, your point?
jovial arch
it's niche
jovial arch
what niche do you think utahraptor should occupy?
what do you think it should normally hunt
admittedly
I actually think Dilo is op
in my suggestion
Dilo needs a nerf
brisk mesa
Well here's an example how it doesnt hunt herbivores well in your idea.
jovial arch
ok
brisk mesa
Carno hunts them well because it has good HP heal, good weight for its speed, etc.
granite vigil
That is a form of defense, but you can’t say that for an animal actively jumping on another
brisk mesa
Your Utahs are getting obliterated by herbivores.
Ok Narhwal, a cougar pounces a black bear trying to mawl it
jovial arch
what
brisk mesa
Are we done yet>? xd
jovial arch
wait a minute
granite vigil
That’s attacking
brisk mesa
Self defense is a word.
jovial arch
what's your argument for why utahs get obliterated?
granite vigil
Not a defensive move
brisk mesa
Threetails, Carnos are a perfect herb hunter atm because they can live.
mental sleet
You mentioned they would get destroyed, threetails.
brisk mesa
One or two hits, as I recall.
jovial arch
it packs up
mental sleet
You are telling players to throw away upwards of an hour.
jovial arch
yes
jovial arch
utahs already have to do that
mental sleet
And that is bad.
mental sleet
This isn't going to change that, threetails.
brisk mesa
Subs.
jovial arch
Yes
mental sleet
It just makes it even more reliant on packing
brisk mesa
It cant do that if it cannot deal with bleed at all.
jovial arch
it already is reliant on packing
brisk mesa
Except your packmembers can survive some hits.
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
If a creature is super weak without a group
Like flat garbage?
Nobody plays it
= no groups
jovial arch
that literally is utah right now
brisk mesa
jovial arch
it's super weak without a group
my version of utah would also be super weak without a group
brisk mesa
You buffed a lot of things massively compared to it.
jovial arch
the point of Utah though is to have pounce
honestly
the primary reason why utah is worse in my suggestion
is because it can't kill dilo
it gets fucked by dilo
brisk mesa
Let's talk about your Gallis then.
jovial arch
the gallis are pretty good
brisk mesa
You nerfed their agility, and are designing them as a food source
jovial arch
yes
they have extremely short growth times as well
and can easily outrun most carnivores
brisk mesa
It would play a very important role in the ecosystem, a constant source of food for Utahraptors and anything stealing food from them.
brisk mesa
You designed it to be lunch.
brisk mesa
That is absolutely stupid
jovial arch
in the words of dondi
if you're playing herbivore
you are signing up to be food
like
the devs said it
granite vigil
In a way yes, but you aren’t meant to become food willingly
brisk mesa
Your Gallis have fucking acceleration.
jovial arch
you can definitely escape
brisk mesa
acceleration
jovial arch
yes they do
brisk mesa
Utahs atm easily hunt them
jovial arch
they're meant to live in open plains
brisk mesa
IDK what servers you've been on.
Saying they struggle to hunt Gallis.
Ambush, one and done, baby.
jovial arch
I was told literally the other day
brisk mesa
You don't add acceleration on a small flighty dinosaur.
jovial arch
you can juke a Utah
brisk mesa
You can, and don't always succeed.
jovial arch
and plus, these gallis can outrun a utah in ambush
again
if they see it coming
the point of galli
brisk mesa
You cucked their agility, which is, again, stupid.
brisk mesa
No, I've said the changes are stupid.
jovial arch
but im failing to see relevant arguments
jovial arch
yes
I fail to see why this has any relevance as to why my galli is shit
yes
it's a change from the current niche
so what
did you read my intro?
jovial arch
like what
brisk mesa
For both other dinosaurs and it.
Well jeez idk.
How about the massive base damage increase.
Yes.
Lets make something that if it accelerates towards a juvi
will smite it off the earth.
jovial arch
uh
Galli p much already does that
I've been griefed by a galli
on several occasions
brisk mesa
Ok, except imagine them growing much faster?
brisk mesa
And not being able to be caught by anything at full speed?
brisk mesa
Then that just leaves them with no compensation for the nerfs.
granite vigil
You do make some good points @jovial arch, but Gallis agility is one of its main strengths
brisk mesa
^^^^^
jovial arch
yes
I know that's how it works right now
my suggestion is to change it
right now it's got both agility and speed as a strength
together
it's a dumb combo
for the large part
in my suggestion
granite vigil
Like I’ll be fine if it gets nerfed a little bit but not that much
vestal rune
it's a bit more complex then that...
jovial arch
you can't have both
brisk mesa
Why.
jovial arch
and be balanced
vestal rune
ye galli basically scacrificed everything to be the best runner
brisk mesa
Like.
vestal rune
sure it has those but its weak, needs a decent amount of food and can be snapped in an instant
granite vigil
It isn’t very strong so it’s not like it’s running adult carnos down and killing them constantly
jovial arch
supposed to catch that
granite vigil
Be smart
jovial arch
i've been told so many times
that the fun part of being herbivore is getting hunted
not being invulnerable
brisk mesa
you took away it's main selling point, speed and agility
granite vigil
Galli isn’t invulnerable
jovial arch
ok
brisk mesa
I didnt say it was too strong.
I said it was unfun to play against
as a slower, weaker thing.
jovial arch
so what I'm gathering from this is that I changed the niche
granite vigil
Utah can easily catch it and so can Dilo if it gets the jump on it
One hit and it’s dead
jovial arch
and you guys don't like that
leaden night
Galli's enjoyment comes from watching carnis fail to catch you
jovial arch
ok, so you run away
granite vigil
Now that I don’t like
You shouldn’t be running at carnivores
You should be running away
leaden night
Dryo's job is to be adrenaline fuel
jovial arch
you're literally sitting here and telling me my balance suggestion is bad because you disagree with the niche
brisk mesa
It's what makes it fun.
brisk mesa
I'm citing an example.
jovial arch
was not what my document is about
no
you've offered up one reason
one
why my galli isn't balanced
that's it
your problem isn't the balance
it's the niche
tbh
im pretty sure that's what multidavid's problem is too
brisk mesa
your entire doc is about niches threetails, you try to excuse it away in the intro, but all your balance suggestions hinge on suggested niches and fall apart the moment you separate the two
mental sleet
Well tbh I have a problem with both so you are preety much on point.
jovial arch
other than it's a stupid idea
granite vigil
Your idea could work, but I just don’t see the need to reduce its agility as much as you want
mental sleet
Oh it is.
mental sleet
I would but sadly I don't have the devkit right now.
Or I would mod everything you have, bit by bit, and then have you play it.
jovial arch
maybe acceleration period could go from 8 to 6 seconds
granite vigil
Rn I will admit it is a bit much
jovial arch
welp
there's nothing that can be said against it's unbalanced because of devkit
so
brisk mesa
Here's another one, you shifted Carno to be a small game hunter, but didn't actually give it the tools to even dot hat. Oneshotting something smaller does not matter if you cannot land a hit. How is that balanced?
You did not remedy what it would need as a small game hunter.
Agility.
mental sleet
I didn't say it was unbalanced because of devkit, I simply said I would show you what would happen if you tried to imput all of your changes on the current game.
brisk mesa
You left it lackluster as that.
jovial arch
well, it's balanced because the matchup is overwhelming
brisk mesa
Erm/
jovial arch
it is almost completely onesided
brisk mesa
You halved his available HP to heal bleed.
brisk mesa
Erm
jovial arch
why would I
jovial arch
carno vs small tier is one of the most thrilling experiences in the game
brisk mesa
You don't hunt small game not for being unable to oneshot / two shot them
It's simply not worth the frustrating pain in your ass.
jovial arch
what if you oneshot a utah
brisk mesa
With a pack, suddenly, its doable.
brisk mesa
The difference between a oneshot and a twoshot is irrelevent if you cannot land a hit.
The Utah, if its a solo Carno, will easily outmaneuver you.
Unless they are terrifically incompetant.
Or ballsy.
jovial arch
I mean
brisk mesa
I've only caught Dryos, solo, when they do atrociously dumb shit.
jovial arch
who is fundamentally supposed to be able to easily outrun his prey
brisk mesa
/ jumping into his mouth
jovial arch
if you can easily outrun your prey and you have the agility that they really can't juke
there's no counterplay and it's extremely frustrating for the other party
it just sees you and you're dead
brisk mesa
And it isn't extremely frustrating for a Carno to see a Utah
jovial arch
yes it is
brisk mesa
and know that lil shit is gonna harass you
jovial arch
but the game is more balanced
brisk mesa
and you won't be able to do anything?
HOW?
How is it balanced
if prey wins the matchup 95%
vs predator wins 95%
jovial arch
because one sceneario ends up with one player dying with no counterplay
brisk mesa
there's no difference.
jovial arch
and the other ends up with both surviving
brisk mesa
Current Carno can be solo'd by a Utah if it doesnt cut its losses.
jovial arch
I mean
brisk mesa
Requires bad Carno, and skilled Utah, but yes, it happens.
jovial arch
possibly
jovial arch
but like, my carno could take 5-6 hits
brisk mesa
in a given matchup
jovial arch
it is strictly predator prey though
in several matchups
It's not impossible to hunt certain things true
but it wouldn't be under my system either
brisk mesa
Not all of them. Allo Vs Dilo, Allo vs Carno, Carno Vs Dilo, Utah vs Carno.
Those are matchups where either party can be the prey or predator.
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
All depends on skill, circumstances, packs, resource availability etc
brisk mesa
Under your system, however, there's a lot more room for balance if both parties are at risk?
wraith trout
hell, it'd take one ballsy utah to hunt a carno
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
Cowardly Utah?
jovial arch
they are pretty suicidal
brisk mesa
What is this you speak of?
jovial arch
typically
brisk mesa
^^^
wraith trout
I like to mess with carnos as a utah, but I dont think I'd ever hunt them
wraith trout
fair enough
brisk mesa
Anyways Threetails, your Utah 10 hits from raw damage on a Carno.
brisk mesa
Consider that, unlike Galli, you didn't cuck speed and agility?
wait, what, doesnt that break your rule
Just realizing now.
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
You said earlier its unbalanced if something is fast and agile.
jovial arch
honestly
brisk mesa
Utah?
jovial arch
carno isn't great at hunting utah
brisk mesa
No, really?
jovial arch
and wait
brisk mesa
Your change doesn't make it great either.
brisk mesa
Yeah I did.
brisk mesa
But I'm bringing up your reasoning behind Galli lol
You said it's unbalanced if something is fast and agile
When your first creature is literally both.
brisk mesa
brisk mesa
Then why can't Carno be fast and agile?
jovial arch
because
brisk mesa
He's not a herbivore?
brisk mesa
And... have you considered there may be other solutions?
jovial arch
utah isn't the king of speed
granite vigil
Carno isn’t built like that
brisk mesa
Like making it have very low stamina>
jovial arch
@granite vigil
granite vigil
If it misses it misses
brisk mesa
Or make turning at speed cost stamina
jovial arch
no realism
granite vigil
Ik
brisk mesa
Say, let's make Carno able to make hard turns when running, by using Alt?
But it just
big chungus to your stamina
EATS it.
jovial arch
yeah
brisk mesa
Have it have its same piss stam regen as it does now.
jovial arch
but the problem is that while it adds skill to one end
granite vigil
That’s something I could get behind
jovial arch
it removes outplay from the other
jovial arch
how is a utah supposed to juke a carno that really knows what it's doing
jovial arch
it just dies
brisk mesa
Is to remove skill?
jovial arch
to have opportunity
jovial arch
ok
brisk mesa
I just cannot get behind.
brisk mesa
Very pointless.
brisk mesa
You saw the Maia issue before remember?
jovial arch
you don't
brisk mesa
On paper Maia was absolutely fucking whacko against Dilo.
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
Kev helped you test, and I watched.
jovial arch
yes
I came up with a better argument for why the matchup is bad
maia is better at hunting dilo than allo
brisk mesa
That's a perfectly fair argument.
I won't try and shoot that down, you got me there.
Herbivore hunts carnivore better than carnivore hunts carnivore.
Can't do shit to contest that one.
Unless I cite extremes like "Maia hunts Dilo better than Trex bc Trex is a fucking lardass"
brisk mesa
You need multiple PoVs.
jovial arch
I don't think my balance suggestion is fundementally that unbalanced, but I think it really goes against community expectations
brisk mesa
David and I did a damn good job because we were in disagreement every 20min.
brisk mesa
We didn't work together to be eachother's yes man.
jovial arch
yeah
jovial arch
@nocturne blaze Maia needs a rebalance
there's also a reason why nivision's group almost always goes maia
in large groups it's extremely strong
ridiculously so
Solo it kinda sucks tho, by nature of carno
I guess 30s of stam wouldn't hurt tho
jovial arch
@compact coyote
I would agree
but cerato is about to get reworked
and honestly Giga is still good
Giga could do with a slight increase to hunger cap tho
maybe 15 to 20 mins
compact coyote
yeah the adult should need one
sub giga is fine tbh, it doesnt starve every 5 mins
jovial arch
Rex needs help more though
compact coyote
yeap, i just want a little down time for carnis where im not required to hunt and i can just wonder around to a new territory/lake or give me ample time to prepare a hunt
where i have time to stalk a herd and attack at my own leasure, yknow?
but the problem is that if thenyaw is gonna be the small map thats gonna stay then the increased stats might not work aswell on the smaller mapo
topaz epoch
@balmy marten V4 was a really cool map, in concept
But it had a lot of glaring gameplay issues that would require redesigning large parts of the map to fix
brisk mesa
like that ravine
Albeit I've found the V3 ravine personally to be really, really annoying XD
compact coyote
^
especially in the middle when you hear a herbivore herd up top and you dont know which way is closer to them
topaz epoch
I still remember that spawn where you can see water but can't even get to it unless you go the opposite way to find a way down a ravine, and the whole trip takes you like 30 minutes
agile whale
@barren zephyr I think one of the main thoughts behind that is mass + speed. If you have a large mass and are moving at a high velocity you aren't able to turn as easily as something that's much smaller and the same speed. It's like rolling a big metal ball vs. a marble at the same speed, and then while they're rolling blowing on them from the side. The marble will change direction most noticeably the fastest because of inertia and whatnot. This is why I imagine things like the Utah and such are able to more easily turn vs. the Carno.
Now as for the para and things like that, I'm not too keen on why that should be able to turn easier.
barren zephyr
Makes sense for the smaller stuff but Maia and Para don't seem to follow that
spiral pond
Well making everything big turn like a truck isn’t the best idea
barren zephyr
Well making one thing turn like a truck aint a good idea either. It just creates a huge handicap
spiral pond
Well Carno has extreme speed to make up for it
And thing like trikes and dibbles need good turn in a fight
serene hull
Meh Carno is fine with its turn. Gali and Utah may be able to juke it, but 1 bite landed is going to end a Gali and fairly sure Utah will bleed out if you land a hit provided you can keep him running for a bit. Maia I think needs to land a lot of hits on a Carno to effectively fend it off and it can only do that with better turn. Carno will always outrun it. If it were to turn similarly to Carno it wouldn't stand a chance whatsoever. Same with Para. It seems to have a huge hitbox and easily falls victim to bleed. It needs a decent turn radius to fend off faster predators like Carno.
barren zephyr
Well if you're gonna apply physics to one thing, you might as well add it to other things that are similar. Hence, Maia = Fast & Heavy and Para = Fast & Heavy. Para's box attack pretty much destroys 90% of Carno's HP. The way I see maia is as easy prey for anything similar/larger in size. It should be able to handle smaller carnivores but nothing bigger.
serene hull
So basically you advocate for Maia = free food for Carno and possibly Allo? Para needs to at fist land that hit to make this a viable argument. Its difficult to time properly, especially when facing something as fast as a Carno.
barren zephyr
Considering carno has to make a trip around the sun, it should buy a para enough time to alt turn and align itself to whichever way a carno is coming from.
spiral pond
What about servers that don’t have alt turn ?
barren zephyr
They don't belong in this convo
serene hull
Well yeah, that's its only way to defend itself. Carno can tank multiple headbutts even from Para. By the time it has taken enough damage where it would have to retreat the Para is already bleeding heavily.
spiral pond
As it was said here many times, if anything don’t touch carnos turn
serene hull
^^I play Carno a lot and I approve
barren zephyr
I never said to do anything to carno's turn
It's the fact that the argument is that; "It's fast and heavy so it makes sense" yet there are 2 other dinos in the same spot as it. Maias and Parasaurs.
serene hull
Also nothing stops a Carno to also Alt turn
barren zephyr
Momentum.
Para has none so in a chase it can stop and let a carno either run through it's box or let the momentum screw it over
serene hull
Really not that big a deal. I dont see why a Carno should be able to solo a Para that easily. Para is larger and has no means of escaping it other than fighting back
With horrible turn it will be free food for all carnos
barren zephyr
I'm not saying it should solo a para. Even packs of carnos have a difficult time
serene hull
Not really
agile whale
long story short because people were getting good at biting at ankles and some dinosaurs just couldn't turn sharp enough to kill the ankle-biters so big carnivores like rex were dying to austro because the austro could just nibble nibble nibble with no threat to it
north dew
Alt turn is a pathway to many annoyances some consider to be unatural... did you ever hear the Tragety of Darth Alt Turnus the annoyance... He taught his students how to alt turn.... then they alt turned on him and attacked him ironic
spiral pond
The first sentence literally says “increase turn radius of Dino’s based on their speed” and carno is the fastest Dino in game Wyn
north dew
.......
serene hull
Without Alt-turn Raptors and Dilos would be the apex predators of the isle^^
barren zephyr
@spiral pond Carno is already the fastest and has the widest. What exactly are you trying to say?
north dew
Its already a demi dieu of hell in its own right it needs no alt turning
Or better turn raduis
agile whale
They're saying if Carno turns as wide as it does then so should things like the maia and para
north dew
...
agile whale
Which makes perfect sense
serene hull
That logic could apply if Maia and Para could make you bleed just like Carno can
Or if their other attacks would be of any major significance
agile whale
They may not be able to make you bleed but they can give you the worst headache of your life