Parasaur kicks the shit out of anything smaller.
#general-feedback-discussion
blazing charm
Well, Shant also has the option of being far more mobile than Trike or Carmara.
snow hare
Shant is also the size of a whale
brisk mesa
Erm. Whales weight 30+ tonnes
snow hare
And not a snail like Camara
brisk mesa
this man isnt even 15.
snow hare
That’s the size of a small whale my dude
brisk mesa
Yes, and a Trike is also within the range of a young whale, your point?
brisk mesa
🤦
feral wedge
Pygmy sperm whales only weigh 940 pounds. Just saying.
snow hare
Are you just being contrarian for the sake of being a jerk or
snow hare
so yes then got it
brisk mesa
Size isnt unique enough.
Shant is big boy, but you'd never say Spino shouldnt have an ability
despite being 9 tonnes
blazing charm
It's attack, It can either rush in for a charge, or rear up and stomp.
One is a risk, the other is a defensive capability.
blazing charm
Para doesn't hit like a truck.
feral wedge
Smallest baleen whale is only 5 tons. 
blazing charm
And you somehow think Shant couldn't do that better?
barren zephyr
Wait
brisk mesa
SMH, I'm just saying it's not unique enough lmao.
Your other ideas were unique.
Even when I disagreed, they werent just yeah, lets make this attack count as it's ability.
blazing charm
Well, what do YOU think it should do then?
barren zephyr
But you named 4 attacks as abilities
brisk mesa
Perfect, lemme have a moment to type.
barren zephyr
3*
brisk mesa
Erm
snow hare
:^)
snow hare
yeh sure lemme go read through 20 minutes of inane blabbering
brisk mesa
Rex is going to be able to grab something
blazing charm
You counted trike goring shit
barren zephyr
Big bite
Bleedy bite
Stomp wit horns
Now introducint stomp with out horns
blazing charm
aka
brisk mesa
and snap it's spine.
brisk mesa
Thats not left click and you do damage.
blazing charm
Shant would do that with a stomp.
brisk mesa
Oh my goodness. Abilities aren't simply attacks, they are mechanics. A Trex could grab a dinosaur and literally snap its neck. That's not just colorful phrasing for bonebreak and doing a lot of damage.
Venom is a mechanic.
It's not just 'muh bite is dangerous'
barren zephyr
shants stomp should send people to the shadow realm where they have to escape the darkness maze before time runs out or else their species they were playing as goes on a 3 day cool down for them
~a genius
@blazing charm add this
And ur suggestions. Is finito
barren zephyr
Which is wat it needs
blazing charm
Because that's the one issue people have with it.
barren zephyr
A rebalance
brisk mesa
Everything needs that.
blazing charm
I took it's god awful attacks and made them more interesting, there's actual risk involved.
It's not just
spam the shit out of left click until I either win, or run out of stam.
brisk mesa
It still also needs a unique playstyle, a unique ability, etc. All you did was limited it's vicious KOS capacity.
Which is needed, but not a niche, or ability.
blazing charm
Did you not read the Life-Cycle section?
next nexus
HOLD UP
brisk mesa
I did.
blazing charm
What about it's ability to chose whether to run or fight?
brisk mesa
Thats not an ability, you even said you'd make most herbivores have a defensive stance.
next nexus
so you're complaining that the balance suggestion isn't a "unique mechanic" suggestion?
barren zephyr
Yes
brisk mesa
No?
barren zephyr
Yes
brisk mesa
I said it didn't hold a candle to his other ideas.
compact coyote
brisk mesa
And everyone jumped up and down on me.
I was just putting forward my criticism of it, and they all either claimed I was just bitchin' for the sake of it or are trying to claim a rebalance is a unique ability, a unique niche, which it isnt.
Is his idea a rebalance of shant? Yeah
barren zephyr
But what u critzied it saying it didnt have a niche or ability
Thats not wat it was about
brisk mesa
But his idea of a Survival playable is missing half of what he puts into his other ideas.
barren zephyr
fuck spelling
brisk mesa
I haven't read the Avaceratops one yet.
barren zephyr
Because it wasnt meant to be the whole thing
brisk mesa
So I cannot say that one is any more like the others or less.
next nexus
by the sounds of it you didnt read the shant one either kappa123
blazing charm
Well, I suppose you have a point. I figured the reworked attacks would have been fine enough. I honestly try to avoid the niche thing since this isn't a normal ecosystem. The Isle is a place where multiple creatures, from different time periods and ecosystems have been thrown together, the amount of apex predators that are supposed to exist within this space is not normal.
brisk mesa
I meant niche as a gameplay niche of course
Lemur, IK you personally dislike me, for whatever reason, but please don't throw shade.
I'd rather Gar not get upset.
I only care to be civil.
finite pewter
Shant is just one of those problem things that shouldn't exist in the first place
brisk mesa
I respectfully disagree with that as well.
blazing charm
Well, if you don't mind me going back to my earlier question, what would you have as Shant's mechanic?
blazing charm
Alright, I'll wait.
finite pewter
Too heavy to be actually damaged by anything short of an apex, too strong for an apex to even want to take on, too fast for anything smaller to effectively get away
It's just a swole para that should commit not living
languid ember
I’m not a fan of how you want the sub adult stage to be tbh. It sounds like something that would take a fuck ton of time to grow, and then be dead the second a mid tier carnivore or apex sees it. So basically putting it in the same spot as other sub apexes already
barren zephyr
So where it should be?
blazing charm
Well, it can just...y'know. Run away.
I'll gladly go into specifics if I have to. I figured running away from threats would come naturally, apparently I have to explain that.
languid ember
When you write «easy pickings for mid tier carnis and no doubt apexes» it doesn’t sound like its going to be able to run away
blazing charm
I'm just gonna wait for Why Watt's Mechanic, then I'll deal with the Life-Cycle issue
languid ember
Aight, for me at least that’s how it came across in my mind when it’s written that subs are easy pickings but you write that juvies will be able to run away. Makes it seem like it looses the ability to flee when sub and is free food
snow hare
do you not run away from bigger things as other dinosaurs?
languid ember
Ofc i do. But the wording for me at least (and another guy i’m in vc with) made it sound like it looses the ability to get away when it hits sub and is free food for apexes and mid tier carnis
barren zephyr
Sounds like u n da guy n vc are a lil dumb dumb
languid ember
Thank you for the nice answer
barren zephyr
Thank u for the nice response
brisk mesa
My idea of a niche for Shant would be to actually build a playstyle around how it can either be aggro, or run for its damn life, but have to wholly commit to either option, and live with the consequences.
Shant would have the very potent ability to recover it's stamina, 1 per second, over the duration of any 'calls' it makes, excluding F call. Shant's overall stamina pool would be decreased, so if it had a standard drain when sprinting of 1 per second, it's pool would only be 60 or so. This limits the powerful, slightly faster than Rex herbivore to either run away 4 calling / broadcasting from an encounter it does not want to fight, or... it must stand and fight.
Now as you all know, you cannot attack during a roar, which means that roaring mid-combat would be a suitably terrible idea, unless a herd can cover you while you roar. Your turn radius would also be mediocre at best when running, and your bleed resistance and heal would be quite terrible. Also, despite being able to recover your stamina from roaring, you'd get hit with Trike/Rex/Giga syndrome and lose trotting stamina regen. So if you burn your stamina you need to either rest or roar to heal, effectively putting you out of combat.
And, given calls only counter the sprinting drain, while this technically means a migrating herd could keep running as long as they roar, not only is everything VERY WELL AWARE of a noisy goddamn herd running around from a great distance away, but this would also have the potential to lure in predators suited to hunt them, given their weakness to bleed and bad turn radius. It also means that they cannot possibly offset the stamina they've lost mid-combat.
Toss in acceleration, which everything eventually is going to be cursed given, and you'd be unable to run over to something and stomp it's brains out.
**FYI, your headbutt is really going to be made pretty ineffective, much like your idea King. So no, an empty stamina shant isnt still a murder truck. However, instead of it being better when sprinting, it would rely on trample damage, given, well, decently fast boy is also really tall and heavy.
blazing charm
Okay, first of all. I get where you're coming from, that sounds awful.
Encouraging players to make obnoxious amounts of noise just to survive.
blazing charm
Why.
brisk mesa
Because it makes sense for a hadrosaur, if anything is going to be a loud herd, that's the suitable candidate.
compact coyote
uhh
brisk mesa
It also means that it's ineffective for mixpacking.
finite pewter
Wait can you clarify
compact coyote
so if 18 shants are on its just a constant earrape
brisk mesa
Do you really wanna be in a herd with a loud bastard?
compact coyote
finite pewter
Are you saying that it should get more Stam for making noise?
brisk mesa
nerf volume of roar like Dilo
blazing charm
That sounds so griefable.
feral wedge
Spamming calls to get stamina back doesn't make sense for anything, anywhere, anytime. Lol
blazing charm
Just keep 1 calling and running around the map forever.
finite pewter
#1 way to attract a predator and fucking die
feral wedge
Tell me how rejuvenating that is.
brisk mesa
It's moreso along the ideas of a battle cry, tbf.
finite pewter
Wh
blazing charm
That's even worse.
finite pewter
What
blazing charm
What animal does a "battle-cry"?
brisk mesa
Lol fair.
snow hare
truly the suggestion to end all suggestions
finite pewter
Battlecry to gain Stam back rather than a short term buff
feral wedge
"Lemme use all up my running oxygen rq. That'll speed us up."
finite pewter
Even as a battlecry it isn't a battlecry
brisk mesa
Fair enough Pyrous.
feral wedge
"I'VE GOT YOU ON THE ROPES." *While running away.
brisk mesa
Lol Gar im dying
blazing charm
So, remind me how spamming 1 call is somehow more of a mechanic that a reworked stomp that requires actual strategy and skill to use?...
compact coyote
IM GONNA END YOUR LIFE continues to run
finite pewter
If this is the best anyone can come up with, shant should be thrown into the fucking trash where it belongs
brisk mesa
I'm actually laughing so much
finite pewter
It's so bad that I can't tell if you're fucking with me
finite pewter
Tease
brisk mesa
On the one hand, it's the most disgusting idea I've ever posted
On the other, I wanted to see if an actual idea could come from it.
jovial arch
Ugh
brisk mesa
It's a 'niche' because well, no other dinosaur would play like that.
Admittedly.
It sounds hilarious
jovial arch
Can we
finite pewter
Para would fit better for noisy dino
brisk mesa
I hadnt thought of the sillyness of that angle
brisk mesa
Everything needs balance.
finite pewter
Even then, having a noisy dino at all is just awful
jovial arch
Balance is already a mess
finite pewter
If you wanna write down the stats for everything, and how they interact, both in theory and in practice, be my guest
feral wedge
@brisk mesa Don't start that bullshit.
brisk mesa
Ok.
Anyways, something constructive did come from that tossing around of a noxious Shant.
clever leaf
lmao battlecry shant
brisk mesa
"VICTORY, OR SOVNGARDE"
-the dinosaur
-said every bandit before you destroyed 'em
-as they run away
clever leaf
thats about as legit as making cerato capable of pouncing
blazing charm
Well, it's taught me that you clearly don't have an idea of what does, and does not count as a mechanic. Because if spamming a call is better than a combat stance with risks. Then I don't know what is.
barren zephyr
almost as legit as having a dinosaur name
clever leaf
if it's just a bad one then why did you even suggest it in the first place
brisk mesa
You made many of your dinosaurs have risky attacks
snow hare
that’s... what a mechanic is
you have this made up definition in your head of what a mechanic is
brisk mesa
Trike stomp is risky.
finite pewter
Can't have a reward without any risk
snow hare
that it has to be separate from an attack
brisk mesa
But rewarding.
No it's just, as I'd said previously... King's other ideas had mechanics.
Velos spawning other Velos.
Bary making stashes to store food.
Those are actual gimmicks.
Not just, balancing.
snow hare
???
barren zephyr
Shant screaming like a howler monkey to regain stam
snow hare
Shant aiming its stomp for maximum damage isn’t a mechanic??
again
made up definition in your head
brisk mesa
Every creature with an alt attack has to do that, so it's not a unique mechanic.
Para needs to aim his kick.
Trike needs to aim gore.
snow hare
are you baiting or just stupid
brisk mesa
Pue needs to time kick / tailswipe / stomp
blazing charm
Para's hitbox is ass, it doesn't have to "aim" at all.
finite pewter
If there's this much arguing over what shant should have for a mechanic, and nobody had any interesting ideas, then it just shows how much shant should be fucking zero summed
brisk mesa
daddy, I'd love if you'd not try and throw shade, it discredits any of the points you raise.
brisk mesa
It does, or have you not ever actually had to debate in class as a lad?
finite pewter
You were the one who said you were partially fucking with us
brisk mesa
Yes, but I'm not baiting in regards to what defines a mechanic.
jovial arch
Lol
snow hare
smells like bait
jovial arch
Why are we arguing about new Dinos and mechanics
warped harbor
Exactly
We don't even know what they want to do with the ones we currently have
Why think about new things
jovial arch
^
next nexus
because thats how new ideas come about
brisk mesa
^.
jovial arch
Bruh
next nexus
thats how affinity became a thing
brisk mesa
^^^^
next nexus
what a dumb arguement
jovial arch
Balance is a mess
next nexus
'stop thinking of the future'
brisk mesa
ikr.
snow hare
bruh just don’t even worry about it
who cares about future mechanics
stop thinking of new ideas
jovial arch
You guys are arguing about how to implement new things
snow hare
May as well just delete suggestions
jovial arch
When what we have doesn’t even work
brisk mesa
Threetails, you've somehow managed to make yourself seem sillier than I have.
Congrats.
compact coyote
didnt you say to not throw shade
snow hare
you heard him folks no new ideas until everything in game is 100% fine
compact coyote
snow hare
this fuckin server man
brisk mesa
You're saying we shouldn't think or ponder about things?
jovial arch
Go ahead
clever leaf
🍿
jovial arch
I’m saying it’s pointless
brisk mesa
Then don't bother commenting if you think so.
finite pewter
If we ever think about a second thing, we need our heads checked
clever leaf
tbh if anyone wants part of the 🍿 i have then go ahead
jovial arch
If you don’t fix the current system what’s the point of deciding the niche of new Dinos when the old ones don’t even have niches
brisk mesa
Except a lot of them have planned niches that have yet to be implemented.
finite pewter
Wh
brisk mesa
Well, what's the harm in figuring out what niche things that have yet to receive any could get after being balanced?
brisk mesa
Seems bizarre. I'm not trying to diss you, I agree the game is in need of balancing before implementing niches and content and mechanics.
brisk mesa
We aren't putting the horse in front of the cart.
finite pewter
Are you saying us, people who aren't doing the actual legwork of putting together mechanics and gameplay, shouldn't be discussing newer potential mechanics and gameplay
finite pewter
I must've misread then
jovial arch
Now that I think about it
Why watt is right
My argument is pointless
Literally
So
🤷
clever leaf
brisk mesa
what just happened
wintry cipher
....read from above, and im even more confused now.
jovial arch
I’ve been up for like 24 hours now, I’m a little tired, so I’m probably not making a lot of sense
Mb
wintry cipher
I think this is a case of you both wanting the same thing but having diff ways of getting to it.
And you -shoo. sleep!
blazing charm
Gonna be honest, I'm sticking to my Shant being a living Truck that crushes shit, as it's "gimmick"
I'll gladly expand on what I mean by it.
But I genuinely think it's enough to be a mechanic.
finite pewter
It's enough for people to swarm to it, thinking they can easily grow up as it, only to act as food for every predator ever
wintry cipher
seriously just make shant only able to stomp 3 times max. it really makes you pick your battles
as an old shant player -if i was alone and saw two rexes, or even one rex, id fucking book it
not risking broken leg and lunch
if i had my herd i would not be charging them, its easier to have thm come to your tight ball of defense and then get one shot by all the stomps
now how to force that into the game so people cant be cancerous fucks...
yeah. prob the 3 stomps max.
you wont be running at things then if you have to consider your ammo
youll either run away or stand your ground
barren zephyr
this is the correct way to play shant ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
wintry cipher
hehe. i guess im one of the few shants people would want to see in the game
jovial arch
I feel like that’s more or less what paras supposed to do though
wintry cipher
kind of....hence it not the end of the world if shant isnt in the game -but think of it this way. giga is a bigger allo. just slower.
and slower growing
wintry cipher
its not an argument for adding somethign but it has happened tbh
wintry cipher
Threetails i think you really need to go to sleep lol
keen crypt
What's the difference between Diablo and Trike then?
barren zephyr
So your saying 1 stomp uses a third of the stamina pool. I'm okay with that but I still think it will be misused by people. Shants need a speed reduction to keep them from hunting.
wintry cipher
you cant stop anything from hunting.
jovial arch
@keen crypt Trike is slower and has more weightmass
wintry cipher
im going to say that now -and yes it does need a mild speed reduction
^ and they hunt just as much as shants do. i guarantee you all those shants are trikes
trike players*
keen crypt
Wouldnt that be the same for Shant/Para? Yet people argue Shant shouldnt be there just because it's a 'bigger version'.
jovial arch
A lot of people argue dibble shouldnt be there either
wintry cipher
same can be said for giga/allo. having shant is not an argument to have something just because its bigger. we were just pointing out it has happened.
and yes, having only 3 stomps would not prevent a shant from hunting. but it would suddenly turn that to 2 stomps if they tried running something down
barren zephyr
Para are more cautious then shants. Shants have very few predators and can hunt with limited risk. Where para can chase an allo but wont leave the herd for long because a single giga can easily kill it.
keen crypt
Don't get me wrong, i'm not crusading that Shant should be in, I was just confused at some logic used by some people in general.
jovial arch
Well
I don’t mind redundancy
I think it should be at the bottom of priority
For implementing
But
🤷
wintry cipher
trike is in the same spot as shant tbh. it can only be hunted by rexes and gigas
and yes, obviously. i imagine all non survival creatures are pretty low priority
blazing charm
Apologies if anyone was reading that, but I made some minor changes.
wintry cipher
To think this all started because I suggested a simple stamina nerf on the stomp
barren zephyr
Yes but trike cant run down carnis as easily
blazing charm
Added a bit more to the Sub-Adult section and left a statement on my stance on "mechanics"
jovial arch
Tbh, acceleration is needed to fix herbis
wintry cipher
what if it started off slow but got faster and faster if it ran, and it gained a speed boost. it couldnt attack. and had low stam. but that ability could let it stampede and GTFO
jovial arch
Hadrosaurs*
wintry cipher
that leaves it open to attack while its still slow
jovial arch
They could keep their speeds
jovial arch
But not be fucking uncatchable and broken
wintry cipher
i mean
unlike trike
utahs can pounce shants
or would be able to
so theyd be open to be hunted by smaller, faster stuff
allo, utah, giga, rex, all of them
while trike = giga and rex ONLY
your fear as a shant is getting jumped by a pack when alone
so if your that dumbfuck that runs away from the herd to hunt a pred
keen crypt
Then why would I pick a Shant to play over a Trike?
wintry cipher
you just fell into an ambush
fathom idol
So about Shant...I dunno...his model is outdated, the stomp attack is too slow, his stam is very bad and the regain of it also. But if he gets a rework it will just be another larger Parasaur. Dondi said this once in a stream and by the time i didnt believe him, but i do now. Shant cant be stronger then a giga and a rex, and if they mix up with other herbs like now, well, no big carn will ever get any food because they will protect and defend that group.
wintry cipher
the same problem happens if you get a big herd anyways.
but yes, shant would be a.....hm
jovial arch
Herbivores need a good balance anyway
wintry cipher
problematic addition. im not saying it should or shouldnt be added
keen crypt
For Shant to be added you have to change so much to the point where you think if it's even worth being added.
wintry cipher
im merely arguing for the balance of the thing lol
fathom idol
What is it anyway what makes him special? The sounds...he's big...he WAS able to kill a rex..but now..
keen crypt
Personally I think Camara would be more interesting than Shant to be added.
wintry cipher
people like being the biggest thing on the block.
despite that making them a target
fathom idol
haha well rex can still kill a giga with 11 bites vs 19 bites for the giga, we just tested it on a testlevel server
jovial arch
The only thing that really allows carnivore apexes to survive is ai
wintry cipher
...and? we were talking about shant vs rex
languid ember
^
jovial arch
They literally vacuum ai
fathom idol
Yes, i know, but rex was nerfed so
wintry cipher
yep. take away the food those ai give, and youll see a lot less apexes
languid ember
Rex got smacked with big unviable
jovial arch
Short of mixed packers
wintry cipher
rex can get a big ambush buff now
break the leg of its prey item, and while the rest of the herd scatters, eat it
languid ember
I personally have never minded a rex ambush buff unlike others
fathom idol
So IF shant is coming back with a new model, just make him a bit faster then the rex, but not so fast as the giga, give him a bit more stam but keep the slow regain of stamina. The camera angle also needs to be fixed, now you cant see anything if you go into the woods
wintry cipher
imo im picturing same speed as giga ambush but lasting 6 seconds tops
so like, it lurks in the forest, pops out, bites, you done.
languid ember
I don’t see why people are so against an ambush buff on rex tbh
languid ember
Eh, not same speed as giga ambush
jovial arch
But yes
languid ember
Imagine trying to get the animations to work for a rex running at 40 km/h
wintry cipher
what do you want rex able to catch with ambush? iw as thinking para
jovial arch
Rex ambush is atrocious
jovial arch
Para is fast as a bullet
languid ember
It should be able to catch an allo IF close enough imo
wintry cipher
thats why the duration of the ambush is short
languid ember
But it shouldn’t have a crazy fucking 15 second ambush to do it on
wintry cipher
that makes you consider distance
KeitToday at 9:45 AM
imo im picturing same speed as giga ambush but lasting 6 seconds tops
so like, it lurks in the forest, pops out, bites, you done.
fathom idol
Jeah well MAYBE Shant would be the ideal prey item for rex, more food, less speed, and keep the Paras for the Gigas who are able to catch it with speed and stam
languid ember
But like, there’s no way in fucking hell you can get a rex to not look fucked up if it runs at 40 km/h
And anyway, i think it’s a bit too fast
wintry cipher
maybe. but like, you get the idea
languid ember
Ye ofc
wintry cipher
kinda like how cerato is set up
it makes for more unique gameplay
slow af,b ut if you get the ambush, your scary af
languid ember
Rex just, well, it can’t hunt shit atm
It lives of ai
Or kills afk/braindead dinos
wintry cipher
if its going to remain this slow it should eat any carcass it comes across. but that encroaches on ceratos rotting meat ability
or, maybe if it eats from a big carcass, it degrades the carcass into a small one for scavengers and can move on
the whole argument for them not eating carcasses was that apex preds only eat choice meats then move on
as it keeps them healthier and lasts them longer
barren zephyr
I think rex should be given a skin to blend in with the map better. It should be hard to spot hiding in the tree lines. That would make the rex be what it was intended to be. A creature waiting in ambush.
languid ember
Food values are so messed up atm too it fucks rex. Like, if it catches a maia, it gets two bites out of it and then it turns into ribs it can’t eat
wintry cipher
skins will be customizeable soon(tm) and im sure a lot of people will go for camo
blazing charm
Uh
I can't tag that name
but, that's planned I believe.
@floral thicket
There we go.
floral thicket
Ah! Discussing the idea here yeah?
blazing charm
That's what the channels for.
But, like I said. I'm pretty sure it's already going to be a thing.
floral thicket
Really? That would be amazing. Then both sexes would have a big purpose.
lament thorn
both genders will be required to nest
blazing charm
Mhm.
lament thorn
both genders will be able to carry corpses its not gonna be a one sided thing
fading shadow
@barren zephyr don’t ever say that again hypo Rex is beautiful
valid zephyr
i think the hypo rex doesn't look as good as the newer hypos
but a remodel really shouldn't be high on the priority list
it looks good enough
mighty girder
@valid zephyr That used to be a thing, I really want them to add it back lol (Nests staying after logout)
I believe it was originally removed due to mega packs just having nests full of eggs then logging out and only logging back in to nest people in and get eggs "cooking" again
valid zephyr
yeah i get how it could be abused
mighty girder
Could be fixed by making it so if eggs are left for 2 long they just go cold and need to be gestated again or something like that
valid zephyr
it's just frustrating repeatedly losing eggs due to server crashes
yeah maybe a 30 min grace period
brisk mesa
They actually aren't deleted on logout iirc?
It's just resets wipe, well, everything.
Except your playables...
mighty girder
They are @brisk mesa
brisk mesa
So like, if bleeding and server crashes
you arent bleeding on login.
Same with nests afaik.
idle needle
Nests do stay when you log out but that has nothing to do with server crashes
When the server crashes, from my understanding all ingame nonplayer objects get removed. Bushes respawn via salad tossers, nests/bodies/gores get deleted
brisk mesa
^^^^^^^
valid zephyr
ah that explains it
brisk mesa
@spiral breach Dev branch fixed that.
spiral breach
It feels the same as before to me, there is still very few AI on the whole map. V3 is huge.
brisk mesa
@barren zephyr Maybe make Dilo an ultra of that, so range as good as carnis, but a 360*
And he would be lord of the night.
barren zephyr
Yes dilo would need some sort of buff. It should have the 360 degree nv with the green trees like Utah used to have in the old, old v3 map. The black and white nv but trees still appeared a dull green.
hasty ore
I think spino should go on all fours when crouching
floral thicket
Hypo rex? Is that a new one? O.O
compact coyote
cloud plover
Didn’t Dondi say on a stream one time that the H. Rex didn’t need a remodel as it felt “complete and perfect”?
still temple
topaz epoch
barren zephyr
It got a new skin didnt it? Like from the old green one. Cause thats the only thing i ever felt needed updateing.
agile whale
It's for sure gotten a new skin, I think the new one is more white or ashy than green, and I think there's one or two more, either male or female variants or just a different one entirely, but it has gotten new skins
barren zephyr
I was pretty sure it did but i havent seen it in so long.
brisk mesa
@barren zephyr I have to disagree with that lol. The Sandbox dinos all need to be balanced, and all the necessary feedback from anyone's experience is obtained within a few hours, generally speaking
barren zephyr
@barren zephyr so because the people who are allowed to play on dev servers are braindead and do all they can to ruin the game they should stop injections
brisk mesa
So, after a few hours of legit gameplay, why have weeks, or months even, between changes w/o injected creatures
If the devs actually did each injection over multiple phases, this would ensure no fuckos get a monopoly of them.
Hell, many of the devs are IN these groups just to espionage
barren zephyr
Did you kno that only game testers are allowed to be injected when they find a bug
brisk mesa
I find that unlikely :P
barren zephyr
And its because not only are a few of them brain dead
The people they inv to get nested are braindead
And make murder squads of shants
barren zephyr
Am i a part of the problem
Im a shant rn
And i havent ran down anything other then water and bushes
🤔
brisk mesa
Ok, I, personally, do not think you are a braindead person.
People will KOS with whatever they can reliably do so.
We've seen stat changes happen to sandbox dinos
barren zephyr
The brain deads^
brisk mesa
Herrera just got some.
So.
Why not be hopeful, and foressee, if Shants are so successfull...
that they get an appropriate nerf?
Herrera got buffed to be a Survival-tier dinosaur.
barren zephyr
My understanding is that dinos being properly put into survival are getting reworks (pachy, sucho). If the sandbox dinos are eventually going to be put into survival as well, then it's logical to assume they'd get a full rework too. Nesting sanbox dinos into dev test servers skews the balance of the survival dino populations. It's been a fun treat but I would like to see it over and done with soon.
brisk mesa
It's actually quite dangerous in packs, before, it barely handled juvies
They'll all be AI soon anyways.
barren zephyr
Personally i think they should be better chosen
Instead of "oh you want a nest inv sure"
brisk mesa
I definetly do not think Shant should be one.
Hearing that they were on the servers was, infact, a disgusting shock.
But asking that all injections stop simply isn't something that is viable.
Also, consider this Eevee.
There is a disgusting unofficial server
Known as Nycta.
It charges people, well, scams them really, for content they had no hand in producing.
Content made by the devs.
Injections are an indirect way to combat that kind of disgusting thing, charging hundreds of dollars
barren zephyr
Wait realy
brisk mesa
For people to be able to spawn as a sandbox dino in a server with actual risks.
barren zephyr
Dev servers were doing just fine for a long time without injections. And I know about Nycta. I'm talking about official dev servers.
brisk mesa
No, I'm saying it would mean Nycta does less well.
barren zephyr
If people are playing on dev servers just to be sanbox dinos, then that totally defeats the point of testing survival gameplay on the dev servers. The whole point of the dev server rules is to promote intended gameplay. If people are just getting nested as injected dinos, then it's not testing the intended gameplay.
brisk mesa
The rules are not in effect
That's why intended gameplay isn't happening.
Thats irrespective of what creatures they can unleash
lament thorn
but they ARE testing things that need to be tested for future gameplay purposes
brisk mesa
^^^^^^
barren zephyr
That's why I said after next wipe / update
lament thorn
once a wipe happens they aren't gonna instantly know what to change about the sandbox dinos
brisk mesa
Example, by observing Shant herds in freecam
they can get an understanding what needs to be done to balance them.
barren zephyr
Are those dinos going to be put into survival properly? Then sure. But if they're going to be injections only then I think there needs to be a limit.
brisk mesa
Same for Herreras.
barren zephyr
Devs are on Christmas break
lament thorn
the point of injections is to test them for survival
barren zephyr
Great, then use whatever data they got from the Christmas injections and stop for a while. It doesn't need to be constant or done after every wipe.
brisk mesa
Survival isnt balanced to begin with.
Like. At all.
In the slightest.
So injections do not make the problem go away, nor do they make it substantially worse.
Servers were majority predator, roughly 70-80%, without injections.
Also, growing the sandbox creatures takes a hot minute.
Nesting back then was balanced to be half the prog time.
Or something similar.
Acro takes longer than an Allo to grow, but less than a Giga afaik.
jovial arch
Ngl tho what are we even testing
barren zephyr
My point that the injections disrupt intended survival gameplay still stands. I play dev branch over public branch for the rules so I can have a better gameplay experience. Like I said, it's been a fun, but I would personally prefer it to stop soon.
jovial arch
Tbh I feel more like we’re just playing for the heck of it
brisk mesa
^^^^ that is more correct than anything, as I've said earlier, they get almost all they need to actually know within a few hours.
You want something to stop but, the thing is the experience isnt as it is intended anyways
The rules just need to be enforced.
ATM, afaik, they arent.
jovial arch
I still don’t like injections tho
brisk mesa
The experience doesnt have larger AI, the combat overhaul, mercs, tribals, strains
jovial arch
I don’t feel like they really improve gameplay for me
brisk mesa
So don't bother saying you aren't getting the intended thing.
They do for a lot of people.
barren zephyr
Then why not do injections on public branch? If you want to be sanbox dinos so much then do them there or play on Nycta. I'm pretty sure the rules are being enforced atm tho, since I've seen mods deal with reports of mix packing. I could be wrong tho.
brisk mesa
It makes it less mundane than seeing only Gigas.
languid ember
i'm ok with injections as long as it's not some op shit that ruins balance even more, like if let's say theri got injected
jovial arch
^
brisk mesa
Herras are bae
languid ember
herrera isn't really a problem unless they are taking over the server completely
herra issa gud boi
if i ever played something else than giga/carno/dryo i could honestly see myself not being a fan of acro, if it really is so lethal to mid tiers as people say
jovial arch
Tbh I don’t know if I’m correct with this but iirc stego has 1200 damage+bleed and outruns Giga?
languid ember
not sure on the exact damage but i know you're close to it, i have no idea about its speed tho
jovial arch
Yeah, not really a big fan in general of things popping in and smashing my balance
languid ember
shant rn just swoops over the apex carnis totally careless, which is broken as shit
brisk mesa
Stego dies to shit fucking easy threetails
Like
holy fuck.
Stegos deal big dick damage but
You arent KOSing apexes
languid ember
what's stego mass?
brisk mesa
Imagine a worse theri in every hregard but it does bleed.
4700 iirc
Attacks from behind
is very agile
languid ember
u know how fast it is?
brisk mesa
big dick 1200dmg
I don't remember exactly, I used to have a progression stat sheet but, i lost it
languid ember
F
brisk mesa
You will die to a smart Giga, and it will heal.
oblique dust
just checked the most recent suggestion in the suggestion chat and uh
how are injections on dev servers bad?
that's how it's supposed to go.
you can't have injections on live servers, so...
barren zephyr
Because you end up with over half the server population being an injected dinosaur. Look at dev 4 and what happened with shants.
oblique dust
but dev servers are for testing
and injections happen because devs are testing the stats and public reation to potential, upcoming survival dinos
barren zephyr
RIght, and that's fine. My point is that it doesn't have to be a constant thing or happen after every wipe.
oblique dust
because of the injection testing on dev servers, we now realize that shants still shouldn't come to survival.
yeah, true, that makes more sense.
it was kind of strange to have so many injections happen at once.
barren zephyr
It's been a neat experience, but like I've said before, I really think there needs to be an end to it soon.
brisk mesa
Ok, but provide arguments as to why it should end.
dim umbra
unfun... please read the above. They had the argument. Just scroll up
barren zephyr
Ok, I'll do an example based on the dev 4 shant situation. Shants are injected and start nesting. Within a few days, you have multiple large groups of shants running around and nesting, so the population keeps growing. Smaller carnivores like allos, carnos, and utahs can't hunt shant groups, so the only check to their population are rexes and gigas. Only, shants tend to travel in large groups and are easier to grow than rexes/gigas, so it's the rexes and gigas that end up dead. More and more people keep joining the shant population, and even in-fighting between shant groups doesn't put a dent in their numbers. So all the smaller carnivores are forced to live off whatever bodies shants leave behind, ai, and the random solo/small group dinos that are not shants or large herbivores. Rex/giga populations take a hit because less people are willing to spend 6 hrs growing up to be run down by a shant group during juvi/sub stages. You end up with a very large chunk of the server pop being huge nearly unkillable herbivores that run around in big groups. I'd say that affects survival gameplay.
Another example that affects gameplay to a lesser extent: herras. On dev 1 during the initial herra injection, because they grew up so fast and could reproduce quickly, within a few hours there was a group of herras of 20-30 people. On a sever that has an 80 population cap, that is a good chunk of people. I think they were mostly all gathered in one spot too. So that's 20-30 people taken out of the general survival dino population, all hiding in a remote spot, and that affects what the rest of the server can hunt or be hunted by. Yeah, it's easy to kill a herra, but my point is any injection dino population influences the rest of the server, even if it's something small like herras.
Injections once in a while are interesting and it does provide testing data for the sandbox dinos, but it shouldn't be a constant thing.
brisk mesa
LOL
They are only popular in bursts, in Herra case, because they are different.
They were exotic.
Now when I'm nesting I seldom get requests for an egg
The early days I'd get DM'd by 5-10 people a play session
I'm sorry but that's like moaning 20-30 people going Galli or Dryo.
Shant?
yeah.
That's a pretty flagrant issue.
But how about, oh idk
A dev logs in as a H carno
and slaughters them by the dozen?
Wipe out nearly all shants
and prohibit them being injected.
Boom.
hell
Go extra mile!
Have a charity stream designated as the Great Shant Hunt.
barren zephyr
You asked me to give you arguments and I did. If you don't agree then that's fine. I was trying to give an example outside of shants or other large dinos. How about instead of devs spending time wiping out problem injections, they instead just wipe the server and anyone who still wants to play as sandbox dinos can go to a sandbox server or Nycta. I'm sure they've gotten plenty of data from the past injections. 😃 Unless you have something of actual substance left to say I think we've debated about this as much as possible.
tawny dust
@midnight flicker what are you suggesting? the affinity system punishing herbi players for attacking carnis first?
midnight flicker
you can't mix pack as carnivores would never mix, herbivores would never hunt a carnivore only attack by defending themselves
tawny dust
so you're saying make "herbis can't attack first" a dev branch rule?
midnight flicker
no, if they see then herbivores can attack, but herbivores can't go out there way to hunt
nocturne blaze
That....sounds like it would be terribly hard to prove / enforce
tawny dust
^
nocturne blaze
And not only that but the devs are working hard on an affinity system that's going to prevent that from happening anyway
midnight flicker
but that won't stop players
tawny dust
but the only punishment we have heard of so far is getting a white skin or something
why not just allo herbis to do it?
buffalo charge lions all the time
tawny dust
@brisk flume if they can yeah that would be cool
herbis don't go out of their way to find carnis
they just charge them when they see them
midnight flicker
exactly, 2 trike players did today
tawny dust
i guess the 2 trikes charged you and now you're mad about it?
blazing osprey
@brisk flume #519931024956850187
tawny dust
either way @midnight flicker animals do it all the time
i don't see why you would assume animals from the past wouldn't do the same
midnight flicker
when they had no reason to kill me of course as realistically trikes wouldn't of done that, same as Rexes wouldn't mix with another Apex which there is a rule on that
nocturne blaze
There are plenty of aggressive animals that charge / attack danger on sight
tawny dust
the mixpacking rule is so rex's don't use utahs as scouts
midnight flicker
like?
nocturne blaze
I feel like trikes would have been one of those animals
tawny dust
buffalo @midnight flicker
midnight flicker
when they are being hunted
tawny dust
if i find the video i'm looking for i'll post it in #401470471750811669 and tag you
i show the same video to people talking about kos lol
midnight flicker
show me a video Buffalo going out there way to find Lions
not Lions hunting Buffalo
tawny dust
i'm looking for it : /
well while i'm looking for it, when thinking of gameplay not realism why should that be a rule?
midnight flicker
then why is mix packing then be a rule if its not realism
midnight flicker
exactly its not realism
tawny dust
so and people can't get 3 rexs and 2 gigas or something like that in the same pack
that's not why it's a rule though
it's a rule so people don't use utahs for scouts
not for realism
midnight flicker
exactly its not realism
midnight flicker
same point i could make
nocturne blaze
Dev branch is a testing branch, the devs don't want scouts messing with the test environment
midnight flicker
what has utahs/gallis being used as scouts got to do with my original point
midnight flicker
not my original point
midnight flicker
your answer is worthless
tawny dust
why should that be a rule
midnight flicker
same as why mix packing is a rule
tawny dust
mixpacking is a rule because people use small fast dinosaurs for scouts
so herbis not charging at carnis should be rule because people use small fast dinosaurs for scouts?
if not, why should it be a rule?
midnight flicker
that makes no sense
tawny dust
mixpacking means 2 different dinosaurs working together.
if a rex is using a utaha scout that is mixpacking
midnight flicker
yes, well done
tawny dust
mixpacking is against the rules because people used utahs as scouts
why should herbis not charging carnis be a rule?
tawny dust
your point was to make "herbis going out of their way to kill carnis" against the rules
midnight flicker
Charging and hunting is 2 totally different
tawny dust
i'm using the word "charging" so i don't need to re type that
ok fine, why should herbis going out of their way to kill carnis be against the rules
midnight flicker
Herbivores are dinos that don't hunt other dinos, i use your example with todays animals, in the wild you see Zebra and wilderbeast together but they don't go out hunting, they eat grass and migrate for the better grass during different times of the year.
tawny dust
ok, but why should herbis going out of their way to kill carnis be against the rules?
the official servers are not realism servers.
i don't see why a diablo wouldn't be allowed to kill a juvi rex if it can, so that juvi rex doesn't grow up to kill it.
midnight flicker
diablo wouldn't go hunting for juvie rexes though
midnight flicker
no, but if you been reading my messages you know that answer without having to tell it
tawny dust
once again. not a realism server.
tawny dust
mixpacking is against the rules on dev branch so people can't use scouts and ruin the testing
said that at least twice now : /
same reason megapacking is against the rules
so people don't ruin testing
so if there's no other reason i don't see why it would become a rule
midnight flicker
your right to your opinion and i respect that, just like i do
brisk mesa
@cursive sun Deinosuchus is planned
brisk mesa
Pachycephalosaurus and Suchomimus are in the works as playables for Survival.
Then you also have strains, tribals, mercs.
We might also get Stegosaurus / Ankylosaurus, or maybe both, possible Herrerasaurus or Austroraptor as well.
Quetzocoatlus and a sauropod are a big, BIG maybe
cursive sun
When are humans expected to arrive? I only just got the game and haven't been tracking much news on it.
brisk mesa
It'll be a hot minute, to put it mildly.
Oh
forgot to mention we'll get Spinosaurus at some point as well.
cursive sun
A hot minute?
cursive sun
Ahhh haha ok.
tawny dust
@midnight flicker you didn't provide any reason to why it should be a rule , but if it's just your opinion then ok.
violet magnet
i'm still trying to figure out what the "rule" he was proposing was
barren zephyr
^
That's more of a statement than a suggestion
And even then I'm lacking proper context
violet magnet
like if i come across a random juvie rex in the woods i'm probably gonna murder it so it won't grow up to eat me later
jovial arch
Hmmm
I actually
Agree
I think that herbis should be specifically specced
So that they are unable to hunt each carnivores
🤷
Just my opinion
lament thorn
specced?
jovial arch
Rn Maia is the best thing in the game
At hunting Dilo
Which make absolute jack shit for sense
So
lament thorn
players fault not the dinos
lament thorn
if herbis are made to not being able to catch a predator how do they escape one?
jovial arch
Well
Uh
Give me a couple days
I’ll finish my 60 page suggestion
And uh, you can see
valid zephyr
surely the current maia is slower than the dilo?
jovial arch
Not even close
It’s actually 3 mph faster
And it 3 shots it
And it outturns it
👍
Oh right it handles bleed like a champ too
To be fair though Maia also has its atrocious matchup with carno
lament thorn
isnt that more of an issue with dilo then
jovial arch
Yes, kind of
That is definitely one method of fixing it
You’d have just about everyone flipping their shit if Dilo was buffed tho
Because Dilo in packs can dismember just about anything in the game with its bleed
Up to and including rexes
lament thorn
yeh ive been warned to avoid them no matter what
dilos just in a weird spot since its gotta compensate for not having venom
jovial arch
But then again if you’re a Maia you hunt all the dilos you want
So 🤷
It doesn’t really make a lot of sense
Everyone else p much stay clear
valid zephyr
the thenyaw nights are so dark that dilo packs wreck everything currently
they wiped a trike herd a week ago
buffing dilos isn't the way to go
lament thorn
how fast are they currently?
valid zephyr
maybe using stam could drain food/water faster? that way herbis lose if they spend ages chasing a carni down
jovial arch
Or maybe 20
Uh
I just gave them acceleration
And the gave them two different speeds
And then lowered their damage at max speed
valid zephyr
carnis get the reward of regaining their food at the end of a chase, while herbis don't with a system that makes stam drain food
jovial arch
And buffed it at lower values
Basically if you tried to chase someone they could just stop and you’d ghost thru them, hit once, not deal much damage, then take a lot of hits
Your idea isn’t bad
But it’s got the unintended side effect of making traveling a pain
And also getting hunted and actually escaping
Would be much harder
Actually
I like your idea
As a general principle
But
🤷
Community would probably roast you on a stake for it
valid zephyr
will put it in suggestions to see how many downvotes it gets 😂
dim umbra
So, I don't think herbs should be disadvantaged by getting a rule, or a debuff to not hunt carnivores down. There would be like ... no one playing them anymore.
I mostly play herbs because I favor them over carnis. But if this would be a treatment I would not want to play the game anymore.
It just makes being a herb even more deprived as it is right now.
Also buffalos and hippos chase down carnis a long time if they see one.
compact coyote
so youre saying a buffalo sees a lion minding its own business like 3 km away and it will chase it?
naive helm
Herbis chasing dilos after the dilo gets a bite in = herbi bleeds to death. So as long as the dilo isn't one-shotted, the matchup isn't too unfair
brisk mesa
Threetails there is another way, in the case of Hadrosaurs...
Make the headbutts for Para and Maia inflict recoil damage based on speed. Trotting or standing would be a mild injury, but a headbutt st full sprint is gonna deal some pain to yourself.
This doesnt leave them inept to defend themselves like making them deal lower damage at speed, but gives perfect reasoning to NOT swing their heads around. To go with this, make them have amazing bleed heal, but bad HP recovery. So if a Para runs around beating shit to death with its face, eventually its gonna be vulnerable.
@jovial arch
jovial arch
"inept to defend themselves"
you're not inept if you oneshot things while you're standing still
then if you die
it's mostly cause you suck
it's a very simple thought process
if you want to fight
you fight
if you want to run
you run
pick one
and i dont see how your solution would fix something like Dilo vs maia
or para vs allo
maia still three shots dilo and heals off the bleed like nothing
para still chases down and kicks allos face in
@brisk mesa
it doesn't really fix any of the problems that we have right now
on paper it sounds good
but im not sure how it actually fixes the problem
my solution manages to allow Para and Maia to keep the extreme speed they have now, keep their combat strength, and manage to have both without being broken
you either chose to deal massive damage to your opponents, or you chose to run away, you don't get both
both is broken
not broken =/= unable to defend self
also, the hadrosaurs wouldn't need to stand still to deal increased damage, they could still run around and hit things for regular damage albeit at a lower speed
normal fern
I would basically make para and Maia have terrible bleed resistance but excellent bleed heal.
jovial arch
tbh
not a big fan of the model
what that ultimately leads to is hyperagressive herbivores
which I feel is more characteristic of things like Pachy and the ceratopsians
because just logically, if you've got low bleed res and high bleed heal you want to end the fight asap
running away isn't an option, really
hadrosaurs are supposed to run, usually
unborn quail
Just remove their ability to attack while running, for every herbivore
jovial arch
not be hyperaggressive and attack
I actually considered it
but it would be pretty stupid tbh
not to mention frustrating
if herbivores couldn't attack while moving
naive helm
Yeah like, trying to run away from a pack of utahs for example and trying to get the fuckers in front of you off but you'd have to stop and surrender your anus to the ones chasing you.
Bad idea
jovial arch
well, not even that, just more that moving in combat is incredibly important in the current system
if you can't attack while running, you're effectively kneecapped
sitting there and only really being able to spin to win is pretty dumb
brisk mesa
@jovial arch No, you don't seem to understand the practical application of such things. Excluding how your idea is about the most illogical thing ever - moving at a full sprint being weaker than running is literally the opposite of what physics would dictate - Hadrosaurs aren't ones meant to stand and fight. They aren't good enough turning at a walk or trot, and they HAVE to be hyperaggressive because predators can perform ambushes that easily catch them.
jovial arch
yes
brisk mesa
The Maiasaura Vs. Dilophosaurus is pretty much a goddamn Moose Vs. a Wolf.
jovial arch
i understand that it's illogical
jovial arch
look
brisk mesa
It's illogical and doesn't even help balance hadrosaurs, it makes them helpless.
brisk mesa
The game acknowledges basic fucking physics.
jovial arch
how are they useless?
brisk mesa
A semblance of realism.
jovial arch
explain for me
brisk mesa
Sure.
I can do so.
Hop onto deathmatch with me.
Rq.
I'm going to show you what a Maia standing and fighting, without running, is like.
brisk mesa
No come on.
jovial arch
so it needs some different stand
no
I know how this goes
and i never said that the maia should stand still
brisk mesa
It gets sodomized.
jovial arch
it would have two speeds
brisk mesa
Im not saying that either.
Trotting.
Come on.
Go whatever dino you want.
Utah, DIlo, Allo, Carno, whatever the fuck.
jovial arch
im not sure
brisk mesa
You see, Hadrosaurs are not defensive herbivores
They are entirely about initiative
You either run
or attack
brisk mesa
but you gotta doing it first
jovial arch
i literally said earlier that movement is integral to combat
brisk mesa
Yes and you want to nerf their damage when running into oblivion.
jovial arch
also Maia doesn't deal enough damage for this to be implemented
brisk mesa
Thats ridiculous.
brisk mesa
Hadrosaurs are 100% about initiative.
jovial arch
that maia can run down and three shot dilo
what if maia couldn't run down and three shot dilo
brisk mesa
I think it's unbalanced that there isnt much risk to doing so.
brisk mesa
No lmfao.
brisk mesa
That's even worse.
random knoll
Wtf
brisk mesa
Hadrosaurs cannot play the defensive game worth shit.
They have to either fight, or flight
But cannot actually stand their ground.
jovial arch
ye
jovial arch
so wait
brisk mesa
Everything about them is.
brisk mesa
They have to pick.
brisk mesa
No?
It's making them unable to actually fight like hadrosaurs fight.
They are 100% about initiative.
If you stand around and wait for the Dilo to come at you
You're already dead.
jovial arch
there's no way to balance that
brisk mesa
Erm
jovial arch
there's no way to balance
brisk mesa
There are plenty of ways.