My house hold would eat my sister if we had that choice
#general-feedback-discussion
barren zephyr
brisk mesa
Therefore its ability needs to help it do that.
verbal acorn
Lion prides weren’t “meant” to have two males, but modern prides are now frequently ran by two. If packing up is advantageous and you possess the tools to execute pack hunts, there is nothing preventing it.
brisk mesa
🤦
nova shell
k but carno doesnt have the tools to do it so
verbal acorn
The Carno’s head and jaw begs to hunt larger prey as a group
barren zephyr
Wood
nova shell
therefore it must be
brisk mesa
Carno ingame is a small game hunter.
barren zephyr
1 second
brisk mesa
Thats it cocoa.
It doesnt go further than that.
Spino is a big land boyo
And thats fine
bc this is a game
brisk mesa
You might be absolutely totally convinced carno is this cheetah dog thing
nova shell
carno could hunt in packs and take down, say, a para
just like a rex pack could hunt a brachio
brisk mesa
^^^^
verbal acorn
Small game when assessed individually...but we can’t ignore the potential for packs....the Carno has the tool to hunt larger prey as a pack
barren zephyr
2 males doesnt remove the fact of the other 8 females in the pride
brisk mesa
doesnt mean the devs will give them the tools to do that
nova shell
they dont have the tools to do it, they dont usually live in packs, but they could do it
nova shell
and get half their pack killed in the process
nova shell
^^^^^
barren zephyr
The tool carno uses is called “allo gameplay”
brisk mesa
They wont make him deliberately encroach on Allosaurus
They will make it hunt small game best.
verbal acorn
The Carno has the tool first, the ability to pack comes as a compliment to its physical tools
barren zephyr
What physical tooks
nova shell
i dont get it
barren zephyr
My god
nova shell
wtf
carno doesnt have the fucking tools
"uhh its model looks like it has them so it must therefore have them"
do you see any jaw muscles?
barren zephyr
The tool u are referring to were best used to shake the the things that could fit in its mouth
verbal acorn
It’s fast, doesn’t turn well...that in itself lends to using packs to secure the kill on mobile prey....the jaw and head compliment it as a pack hunter
brisk mesa
No?
brisk mesa
Its fast and therefore runs down and kills something
nova shell
not good at holding on to anything
brisk mesa
and ends a fight immedietly
barren zephyr
^
brisk mesa
by killing a small prey item
brisk mesa
^^^^^
verbal acorn
Who needs to shake small prey with a vice grip of a jaw...just bite and hold
brisk mesa
What?
barren zephyr
Hold
brisk mesa
LOL
barren zephyr
HOLD AND DONT LET GO
nova shell
because it cant fucking bite and hold when its jaws are the weakest jaws in the fucking game
barren zephyr
Hold and dont drop
nova shell
it has the weakest attack of anything in the game for its size, period
nova shell
a dryo has a proportionally stronger attack
verbal acorn
If it was a small game hunter, it would have been better suited with a Raptor like head and jaw
leaden night
Wasn't this discussed like a month back already
nova shell
fucking no
barren zephyr
We are getting aggresive my self included
nova shell
it has a short head to reduce air resistance
brisk mesa
Yeah.
barren zephyr
@leaden night @nova shell @brisk mesa we all know hes wrong right?
nova shell
yes
nova shell
let's stop
verbal acorn
All you’d need to get small prey is an extended jaw and the teeth to hold them
leaden night
@nova shell Laughs in Dilo's base 10 raw
barren zephyr
Okay next suggestion
nova shell
oopsie
u rite ditto dilo is the only one weaker than carno
taco claps velo though lol
barren zephyr
So about this bleed suggestion
nova shell
i think taco or oro have the strongest proportional attack in game and its hilarious
brisk mesa
Dilo bites another Dilo
verbal acorn
The short jaw and stout head is for locking onto prey...that’s only needed against good sized prey who you have to wear down...like big cat kills
nova shell
no no no
brisk mesa
Yes yes yes
nova shell
scroll down to the balancing section
brisk mesa
Dilo does 50 bleed.
nova shell
and read dilo's thing
nova shell
it's not gonna blind you, just gonna be a clear indicator of how boned you are
verbal acorn
Why would we even assume a straight line runner would be beneficial versus small, mobile prey. No, the straight line speed is good vs good size prey and if you have help fro a pack
brisk mesa
and have 2 more xmas parties
Now here's my first major genuine qualm.
You cant really kill jackshit with bleed in this, and small things lose the only means to hunt large ones.
Utah does what, 20 dmg to a Rex per bite?
Pack of 20 would never kill one in your system
nova shell
i disagree
nova shell
bleeding out a rex would simply be more time
brisk mesa
That T.rex is going to fucking suffer.
EXTREME suffering
True Alpha would nut over your idea
verbal acorn
A short head to reduce wind resistance? Like a Volkswagen Bus?
nova shell
cocoa u gonna drop it someday?
brisk mesa
^^^
nova shell
we've moved on and I recommend you do too
verbal acorn
Nope, I got short jaws...I bit and lock
brisk mesa
Below 50 bleed is totally irrelevent to a Trex
But the moment you'd get there
its a victim of True Pack
Also
100 bleed being lethal.
Just
outright lethal.
nova shell
i mean
brisk mesa
Thats fucking disgusting
nova shell
all your blood is gone
nova shell
it's not bleed level
nova shell
that's not bleed level, it's the percentage of blood you lose
brisk mesa
Giga actually kills Trex just as fast as Rex kills Giga with your idea
nova shell
you misunderstand watt
let's say rex's blood efficiency is perfectly average
that means its blood meter is equal to its mass/hp/whatever
leaden night
nova shell
a giga deals just as much bleed to it as it would now
only it wouldnt deal DoT
getting a rex to 100 bleed wouldn't be instantly lethal, it would just affect how much blood the rex loses per second
per tick, whatever
wintry cipher
heres the thing
your entire suggestion, from what ive read of it, seems to encourage facetanking more
when the whole point of bleeders and bleed
is to bite, back off and wait
rather than be the dumbass that goes in constantly
wintry cipher
let me go and get a quote from it
nova shell
a creature with high impact damage would bone you though...
wintry cipher
Objective: Make bleed less of a DoT thing and more of a debuff system that rewards players for persistence and punishes those that bite prey and then run away and wait for their victim to die.
^ how does patience not = persistence?
it says "facetank" and punishes those who actually do what theyre supposed to do
brisk mesa
:)
nova shell
that's all im gettin from this
wintry cipher
im not saying facetanking = persistence. however the way youve phrased it makes it sound like you need to be constantly biting and stacking
nova shell
you do lol
wintry cipher
which is what impact fighters do. not bleeders.
brisk mesa
^^^^
verbal acorn
@nova shell I like your take on bleed overall. I think the 90% effects aren’t totally needed.
I think it provides the potential for great perk for Carnos...improving their weaker bleed through a bonus applied during a bite & lock.
brisk mesa
Oh my god
wintry cipher
bleeders already do that. so why punish them when they throw their fragile selves at danger, get enough stacks off, and then manage to keep their distance?
nova shell
please just leave coca holy shit
brisk mesa
I agree with Keit.
Bleeders are meant to be cautious, and rewarded with patience and taking fewer risk
Thats their playstyle
wintry cipher
i think its a good idea. you just have the wrong idea of the goal
verbal acorn
That was brilliant, ya’ll just mad
nova shell
because you don't have to 'manage' to keep your distance
wintry cipher
um. allo certainly does from para
nova shell
giga is faster than trike and easily kills everything else
nova shell
allo doesnt have to worry about being killed by anything that it bleeds out
allo is faster tho
wintry cipher
said diablo will do bleed back to that allo
brisk mesa
or get fucking clapped
wintry cipher
and both will get weakened
brisk mesa
^^^^
limpid dove
isnt snow a planned thing
or was it
dondi has shown old clips of snow/working with snow, was the idea scrapped??
via unhinged suggestion
brisk mesa
^^^^^
limpid dove
tru
brisk mesa
But back on topic of this bleed suggestion...
barren zephyr
It would be live to run around in slo
limpid dove
but wasnt it an idea in the past
barren zephyr
Snow
brisk mesa
It's still, erm, no.
barren zephyr
I think so
wintry cipher
its an interesting idea to be sure but definetly needs revisiting
brisk mesa
Consider how much more painful your idea is.
You are making whoever you fight
have an even more unpleasant experience
its not tense
its a chore to die
Stop stam regen, lower their attack speed etc?
Make attacks drain stam
Thats just
fucking unpleasant
wintry cipher
at least right now youd have a fair chance of killing something for making a mistake int he last second when a prey item is thrashign and at its most dangerous. with this system, it would mean jack shit
nova shell
that's the idea
as a high impact creature you want to finish the fight as fast as possible
brisk mesa
Thats a bad idea then.
nova shell
else you get debuff city
barren zephyr
That makes herbs fucked
brisk mesa
^^^^
barren zephyr
1 bite and game over
wintry cipher
not all herbs. just the non bleeders
nova shell
idk about you but as a high impact creature i wouldnt want the fight to last more than a few bites
wintry cipher
and then the bleeding herbs would be op af
brisk mesa
IDK about you but...
wintry cipher
high impact creatures are brawlers and are built to fight up front and take a few hits
bleeders are not
brisk mesa
why not make it simply a seperate bar for HP and bleed?
barren zephyr
But how u put it ud kill my entire gameplay
brisk mesa
Say
nova shell
that's the idea....
brisk mesa
Thats a bad idea.
nova shell
no what keit said
barren zephyr
Nawh the problem is brawlers are made to fight yes
wintry cipher
yet you explicitly state you would punish people who back off and wait
barren zephyr
But ur suggstions makes bleed a overlord
nova shell
they have an even lesser chance of killing their opponent if they facetank
wintry cipher
max. you also stated to increase their impact. so they would kill their opponent
nova shell
because instead of having the bleed kill em after they die, they would just give their opponent some minor debuffs given they sit down
how about
instead of increasing their base impact damage outright
losing large amounts of blood simply decreases your dmg resistance
inb4 something about carno locking and holding
wintry cipher
lets look at the diablo/allo matchup.
it would be a blatant slap fest on both sides at the end
verbal acorn
The idea isn’t bad. It allows bleeders to de-buff opponents to give them a chance to defeat them in a more face to face fight....instead of the fight becoming two guys sitting down waiting to see what happens.
nova shell
the idea is to hit your opponent without letting them hit you
brawlers just basically facetank
wintry cipher
thats what bleeders already try, but go on.
brisk mesa
So essentially I had been working on the mechanics of a hypothetical dinosaur game of my own, as context.
I'd split every major stat into two states, bc my idea was much longer term dinosaur gameplay. So opposite of your Stamina was Fatigue, opposite of Hydration was Dehydration. Well I'd done so for "HP" as well, you'd have Vitality and Mortality.
Well, my idea in regards to Vitality and Mortality could work in the Isle's context; normally, you crossed from Vitality to Mortality after you've lost your full amount of HP, from various factors, however Bleed directly stacks Mortality, not like normal damage which chunked Vitality
If your Mortality surpassed your maximum Vitality, you died, and it made Bleeders, in context of my hypothetical game, able to do something completely different than Brawlers
So looking at your idea of Bleed being, well, it's own gauge...
wintry cipher
so youd take the bottom of your vitality bar and slowly raise it to effectively lower the max hp pool until the bleeder's dmg and the "mortality" met in the middle in death?
brisk mesa
Yes
wintry cipher
interesting concept
nova shell
interesting
wintry cipher
oooo. i have an idea
that can work with both
max what if your debuffs just made things more prone to dmg instead of the other stuff, so eventually, a bleeder, if fully stacked, would do similar dmg like an impacter, if not more? because they are fragile?
verbal acorn
OMG, are you thinking what Im thinking?
nova shell
no
wintry cipher
bleed wouldnt kill you as much as make you much more easilly killed.
nova shell
you're thinking about carno locking and holding
verbal acorn
Lol
nova shell
eeeehhh
verbal acorn
Yes! Exactly! And it would raise mortality with the lock...you guys are geniuses!
wintry cipher
half an hour left till its done updating...been updating since 9 am and its almost 5pm
nova shell
while i think outright damage vulnerability would work well as one of the abilities, I also think it should make you vulnerable in other ways
the point is to make hunts long and drawn
because as of now bleeders are just brawlers that do their damage over a span of time instead of instantly
brisk mesa
Hunts already last 10-20min you do realise this right?
wintry cipher
i mean bleed did get nerfed so hunts are much more drawn out. but the problem with dranw out hunts is it allows for people to call in packmates
verbal acorn
Either way, debuffing through bleed is a good idea
nova shell
10-20 min?
wintry cipher
when you want to kill the thing as fast as fucking possible
nova shell
wtf
nova shell
how do your hunts last so long wtf
wintry cipher
they last a good 5-10 mins unless its a big prey item. then its easilly 20-30
brisk mesa
^^^
nova shell
i never needed patience
wintry cipher
like. as a utah. we've hunted solo paras for half hours if not more
literally starving them out to get them to move
nova shell
all you need is to make sure they're alone then ambush while they arent watching you
brisk mesa
Thats not bleeding something out
thats something bleeding out from an evenly matched foe
verbal acorn
Utahs are the devil
barren zephyr
^
nova shell
yeah it is, come up behind it, bite it enough times for it to die, and run like hell
wintry cipher
hush up ont he utah comments im using my own experience as an example here
nova shell
unless you're a utha in which case you're gay
barren zephyr
Max not every hunt goes like that
brisk mesa
^^^^^
wintry cipher
^^^^^^^
nova shell
the vast majority of mine do
brisk mesa
As what dinosaur?
nova shell
which is why i made the suggestion
wintry cipher
most of the time they see you and either bolt or fight and you have to circle them until youfinally get that hit in
lemme guess. giga
brisk mesa
lol
nova shell
i usually play carno or dilo
wintry cipher
also; utah cant pounce yet, hence its cancer until it can actually do palpable dmg
nova shell
they are bleeders
nova shell
it is now lol
barren zephyr
Dilo is only cus venom isnt in
brisk mesa
^^^
Hey guys
swapping from Carnos and Bleed
thoughts on my Dilo venom idea?
*venom
nova shell
until it can efficiently clap small things it's best hunting large herbs, and until dilo can efficiently do whatever tf dilo is gonna do, it's best as a bleeder
barren zephyr
Agrred
verbal acorn
So how does one recover from the bleed. Roll around in the mud of a water hole/riverbed to clot the bleeding. Could we consume botanicals to help us recover from bleed and it’s de-buffs after the fact if we survive?
nova shell
with their current stats, they're both decent bleeders
wintry cipher
I think its a good idea watt. just not sure how that would work in game unless i saw it in action.
nova shell
^^
wintry cipher
oof
brisk mesa
OH GOD
barren zephyr
I SAID THIS
nova shell
what
wintry cipher
ooferino
nova shell
you dont get it watt -.-
barren zephyr
It would remove brawlers
brisk mesa
THATS SO RANK
barren zephyr
Bleed would win
brisk mesa
fucking disgusting
barren zephyr
Regardless
nova shell
watt i explained this
wintry cipher
i think what hes saying is -youd need to propose a whole new bleed heal and resistance system with this as well
brisk mesa
^^^^^^^^^^^^
nova shell
your bleed gauge and bleed level would be different
wintry cipher
I'm really good at translating lol
brisk mesa
Keit is amazing translator
wintry cipher
...uh not quite that level XD
barren zephyr
Lmao
wintry cipher
hawaiian?
barren zephyr
Armenian
wintry cipher
someone said soemthing similar in a diff discord hence my guess
verbal acorn
But it would be nice to be able to increase the rate of purging the curse some guy put on. I’m not suggesting it be instantaneous eous.
wintry cipher
ah
nova shell
yes you would have to heal your bleed meter separately from your bleed lvl heal
that's
a given?
icy venture
Sounds overly complicated.
barren zephyr
Being black and middleastern is a funny mix
wintry cipher
oh. idea.
nova shell
it's not that complicated
icy venture
Very confusing for new players
wintry cipher
to make sitting and healing bleed after a brawl less tedious
what if your heal scales and grows more effective over time per tick?
nova shell
blood meter here blood gauge here
heal this on its own heal this on its own
brisk mesa
keit stop the telepathy as im looking at my game concept over again
verbal acorn
And Cerato should have a similar mechanic but little to no bleed. Make it sepsis...for which only botanicals can help purge.
wintry cipher
like. it wouldnt increase your hp heal -so youd still be vulnerable for a long time. but bleed wouldnt keep you trapped for as long.
nova shell
sounds like dilo venom 2.0
verbal acorn
But venom is cheesy
nova shell
ur mom
barren zephyr
Cocoa u have this thing about reusing mechanics
nova shell
^^
verbal acorn
Because mechanics are all relative...different ways of essential causing the same affect
brisk mesa
make Rex pounce
verbal acorn
No
brisk mesa
just make it pounce different
verbal acorn
Make Rex shoulder tackle
brisk mesa
and call it crunck
wintry cipher
to quote a joke from a packmate: dibble pounce
nova shell
its all relative
brisk mesa
😂
barren zephyr
Are we bullys?🤔
verbal acorn
No, I’m not saying that
nova shell
Bullying is cool 
icy venture
Reusing mechanics with different "skins" (like venom and infection) are not separate niches @verbal acorn
Survival is all about different niches.
nova shell
dont say it lol
nova shell
dont even say it lmao
barren zephyr
Id never
icy venture
Say it no balls
barren zephyr
Then id advertise it
verbal acorn
Wasn’t looking to make separate niches, though they could have subtle mechanics. A Dilo’s venom and a Cerato’s sepsis being similar in mechanics in no way puts them in the same niche
icy venture
Whay
nova shell
what
icy venture
???
wintry cipher
it kinda does though but makes dilo a little obsolete because people would avoid them for the same reason: nasty bites
icy venture
If ur not looking to make separate niches then why add one
nova shell
if they do the same ting then how would they be in separate roles
icy venture
Why add 2 of the sqme
wintry cipher
now mind you cerato would realistically have a nasty bite thanks to eating rotten meat. but arent most scavengers fastidious cleaners to avoid getting sick themselves?
nova shell
yes
icy venture
Dilo would realistically not have venom.
verbal acorn
You guys are thinking along the lines of staged 1v1 combat....ignoring that a niche is more than about features or combat styles in a face-off
icy venture
Realism doesn't matter
wintry cipher
maybe cerato could transfer something if it had recently eaten rotten meat. but if it hadnt eaten such int he last 5 minutes, nah.
nova shell
that's not what we're thinking at all cocoa
wintry cipher
it doesnt. im thinking from a hybrid realistic/gameplay standpoint
icy venture
@verbal acorn if u make cerato what u want it to be
Why pick one
Over the otjer
They're the same
Legit same Dino different skin
nova shell
a cerato ambushes a maia and bites it and the infection kills it
wintry cipher
cerato would be the better dilo
icy venture
OH
wintry cipher
tankier
icy venture
LIKE AN ECHO FIGHTER?
nova shell
a dilo ambushes a maia and bites it and the venom kills it
whats the fuckin difference
icy venture
From smash
verbal acorn
You can have similar dinos fill separate niches. Differences such as size, speed, durability, etc can put these two dinos in separate niches within the ecosystem of the game
nova shell
^
icy venture
I'd rather have something unique that doesn't re use an asset, tyvm
nova shell
i mean
stats dont define a niche if the two creatures use the same method to kill things
icy venture
And... Why use infection as cerato niche when you can instead make it a game changing mechanic out of it?
verbal acorn
The difference can be wether or not the dino can deliver enough damage to kill prey it’s larger counterpart could. Or if it can catch prey it’s larger counterpart can’t catch
nova shell
k but the size difference between cerato and dilo is minimal
icy venture
The devs wanted to avoid
By making survival
And scrapping progression
aka prog trees
"this is the same. It's just bigger but slower"
Does not make it a new niche
If we take ur idea why not just re use bleed and make venom bleed but renamed lol
verbal acorn
Infection vs venom vs bleed may make them all de-buffers...but not the same niche. Plus, there is nothing wrong with overlap.
icy venture
There is
The things the Dev wanted to avoid by making survival was things that do the same thing
What do you not understand about that?
this bites and kills something with venom u only heal with plants
this bites and kills something with infection u only heal with plants
They're the same.
Even if one is faster
They do the same thing
Mechanics wise
There is no difference
verbal acorn
Because ultimately we all do the same thing anyway....the only real difference right now is that half of us do DoT, the other does burst....but the devs are trying to only give us two dinos
icy venture
So it's just a lazy copy.
OK someone else keep arguing I'm so tired of repeating the same shit
verbal acorn
You have variations on a theme. De-buffers could come in bleed,venom, infection. Each with subtle differences and different ways of removing them.
nova shell
'subtle differences'
nova shell
subtle differences
verbal acorn
You can only differentiate theropods some much sense nature essentially created them as variations on a theme.
icy venture
nova shell
you can only differentiate life forms so much
nova shell
nature made them a variation on a theme
icy venture
Why use ingfection as a copy of venom
Instead of a different mechanic
To stop mega packs
And mixed packs
Plz
When u can have
So much shit
For cerato
I.e Affinity reducing bite, being able to ear rotten food, etc
verbal acorn
Like biting left instead of biting right?
nova shell
cuz mi realism
verbal acorn
Those are all good things outside of Combat that would help differentiate the Ceratos in a niche. I’ve suggested such things already...but that not on the topic of delivering damage
icy venture
Uhhh but it doesn't need to have a niche to deliver damage
nova shell
the way you deal damage does not define a fucking niche
icy venture
Affinity bite would be the best option.
verbal acorn
Damage does not define the niche
icy venture
No shit
nova shell
im the one that came up with that idea a long ass time ago affinity bite would be great
icy venture
Affinity bite deters things form attacking you
But doesn't depend on doing dmg to deter them
You could make it so it reduces more Affinity if you've recently eaten rotten food
verbal acorn
Affinity bite is meta...it deters players...but wouldn’t and shouldn’t be a deterrent in game
wild rose
@nova shell Do you not get what I said?
icy venture
It means it's not necessary @wild rose
verbal acorn
Poison glands would be a reasonable deterrent to being attacked if it was applicable...but
I don’t see that being appropriate in game unless they let us play as a toad
nova shell
not necessary but i don't see why not put it in if there's time and money to spare
icy venture
@verbal acorn affinity reduction would be a deterrent
Low Affinity fucks up your Dino.
Maybe the lower the Affinity your opponent has, the more damage you do too if that's what you want.
verbal acorn
It would be a meta deterrent...there is no natural basis for it
nova shell
let's say it bites a maia once or twice
rip the maia's affinity, and it didn't even do anything wrong
it was the cerato's fault for botching the hunt
icy venture
But it's the maias fault for not getting away from cerato or seeing it, isn't it.
verbal acorn
Affinity bite would be cheesy and exploit able
nova shell
ur mom is cheesy and exploitable
barren zephyr
^
verbal acorn
My mom is creamy....there is a difference
icy venture
Using the same EXACT MECHANIC for. Dilo and cerato
barren zephyr
WOAAHAHH
verbal acorn
You say it’s exact...I’m saying there could be differences, variations on a de-buffing theme
nova shell
slight variations you say
icy venture
Oh sry you have to eat a violet for one and you have to eat a poppy for the other to heal them
nova shell
^
icy venture
So like... An echo fighter?
nova shell
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
verbal acorn
So our current bite mechanics aren’t essentially the same thing...variations on a theme?
icy venture
Because they're not done yet
nova shell
a bite can only go so far
verbal acorn
Neither are bleed, infection or venom
icy venture
They haven't added any mechanics except for Rex for now 
...
What does that have to do.
nova shell
you know how many fucking different types of venom and infection there are?
know how many differnt fuckin types?
barren zephyr
yikes
verbal acorn
And homeostasis affects too...they can only go so far
nova shell
it's the kind where your mandibles go together
icy venture
Technically 2 lol
nova shell
shut up hati
icy venture
cloud plover
nova shell
i apologize at this time hati, i see you are correct in your analysis
there are indeed 2 kinds of bite
there's one bite in game though
it's common sense that they all do what a bite should fucking do
verbal acorn
Carnos should get a bite & lock that improves their ability to opportunistically bring down larger than small prey as a pack.
icy venture
orrrr
give that
to someone
who doesn't already have a planned ability
ahem carno doing more dmg as he accelerates ahem
verbal acorn
More damage based on speed is nonsense unless the Carno is slamming into prey to bite & lock...like a bird of prey hitting a bird and grasping on.
Drive by bitings would be ludicrous
barren zephyr
so would a pack of carnos hunting anything
you need to be able to turn something big or else it catches you on the exit
verbal acorn
@barren zephyr You saying a pack of Carnos need to get the kill on something big to keep from dying or getting severely wounded on the disengagement? Big is relative, but I’d say yes...this would be the case. With big being a low to mid-tier medium...especially one without horns/gore.
The whole purpose of the bite & lock is to allow a pack of Carnos to pile onto the target as a group and break it down by means of bleed and/or stamina drain in addition to small damage.
Ideally, the stamina drain renders the prey exhausted and vulnerable to regular bites to finish them off
barren zephyr
but even realism wise they are wrong
verbal acorn
Unlike a typical bleeder, the Carno would only be able to drain stamina or gain the bleed buff while latched on
normal fern
^sooo... shitty allo
verbal acorn
Lions aren’t the only ones who hunt like that...and those others are relatively frail
But yes, Lions paint the picture
icy venture
if we're talking realism
barren zephyr
paint
barren zephyr
the wrong picture
verbal acorn
Big is relative...I’m not suggesting Carno packs take down Paras
barren zephyr
maia is too big
verbal acorn
At least not adult Paras
barren zephyr
because maia isnt fraile
verbal acorn
Naw, Maia is perfect
barren zephyr
for an allo
jovial skiff
Isn't Carno gonna get a ability where the faster it runs the stronger it is
jovial arch
Carnos
barren zephyr
ya stego
verbal acorn
Carnos could take Maia as a pack, but with higher casualties/injuries
jovial arch
Practically the entire ecosystem needs a rework
barren zephyr
carnos dont need to pack
verbal acorn
Dibbled too
normal fern
Carno can already take maia solo
barren zephyr
diablo would rip apart carno
normal fern
And carno shouldnt go after dibble
verbal acorn
It’s not about need, it’s about being able to exploit an opportunity
Packs of Carnos could and should
barren zephyr
ima not having this conversation AGAIN
if you guys wanna get trolled go ahead
i gotta win the bundesliga
jovial arch
Carno rn is broken (in terms of functionality) it hunts herbis instead of small tiers it’s not good
verbal acorn
Have it again...you just echo fighting
Solo Carnos should shy away from med herbs...but not packs
normal fern
Carno isnt meant to pack
jovial arch
Imagine if carno oneshot things
And actually healed off damage
But had the same mobility as it does now
Yes they can juke for days
verbal acorn
I use my Carno to hunt medium herb juvies.
jovial arch
But carno actually has a favorable matchup can small tiers
verbal acorn
Carno is built to pack
jovial arch
You’d need to drop the hp down too
jovial arch
Well
sly hatch
Let me throw in my two cents
Carnos are broken
Herbivores are broken
Everything is broken
You getting in a heated discussion isn’t goin to change anything
sly hatch
Well everyone playing is going to choose packing over not
It’s just smarter
jovial arch
Uh, yes and no
sly hatch
Other then baiting, there really aren’t negatives other than more mouths to feed
jovial arch
Packing on something like a rex is honestly kinda dumb unless you’re with juvies or subs
sly hatch
But more mouths= more bite as well
Meaning you can take on larger prey
jovial arch
Same goes for Cerato
jovial arch
Same more or less goes for Giga but less so
normal fern
Thats cos juvies are useless
verbal acorn
A high speed, straight line runner with short jaws and a stout head is literally built to hunt good sized prey by way of pack support and a overwhelm them with a locking bite.
verbal acorn
But we don’t have the locking bit
sly hatch
I mean considering it had no arms it couldn’t really grasp other than using its head, so if it were to lose its balance it would be in trouble
normal fern
^problem is that isnt carnos intended niche
sly hatch
So I don’t know if grasping is realistic
jovial arch
Carno has pretty much been expected to hunt small game for a while now
sly hatch
Ye
normal fern
Not very good at it im afraid
normal fern
Buff its turn radius, impact damage and stam regen
sly hatch
It’s just a bad creature lol
I’ve tried hunting everything along the line of size and really there’s no perfect prey
normal fern
But then lower his stam pool and nerf his bonebreak resistance
verbal acorn
You run two to three carnos up along side a Maia and have each one bite down and hold...the Carno would be fine. The Maia would break the fall and you have no front limbs in the way to get damaged
normal fern
@verbal acorn an allo could already do that but he wouldnt even need a pack
sly hatch
Okay but something without arms topplinnovee doesn’t make sense
verbal acorn
That doesn’t exclude a pack of Carnos doing it
sly hatch
Carnos were most likely evolved to eat small prey whole
verbal acorn
Let Allos solo a Maia, let Carnos have to dog pile one
normal fern
Nor does it exclude allo from going after utahs and gallis. But you dont see allo having an ability that makes it excellent for hunting them
sly hatch
Coco can I explain something to you
jovial arch
I would say that a much stronger argument for carno hunting small game is niche overlap
verbal acorn
I’m fine with some overlap.
jovial arch
Rn it seems like Allo, Giga, and Utah are all planned to hunt herbivores to an extent
sly hatch
If you have no arms and fall over it is going to be extremely difficult to stand up
I’m just imagining myself trying to get up without arms and it doesn’t seem to go all that well
Now erm think of a bunch of things without arms dog piling another thing
jovial arch
There’s nothing that hunts small game really consistently
normal fern
I dont even know whats going on with giga
normal fern
Pre stam buff giga was terrible. Now it makes mid tiers redundant
wintry cipher
imo it wasnt terrible. you had giga players who figured out how to escape despite the weakness
verbal acorn
These predators have a niche that expands along a small portion of niche spectrum. They may specialize or be best suited for the center of their spectrum, but their niche isn’t completely exclusive of any other’s
languid ember
by looking at its stats it's pretty obvious that giga is supposed to be a mid tier rapist, but it's too good at it atm
verbal acorn
There should be some overlap
jovial arch
I mean
jovial arch
I’m psure Allo will eventually hunt both para and Maia
normal fern
I always thought that giga should be the sauropod hunter and general big game bleeder
verbal acorn
A pack of Carnos hunting what an Allo hunts solo isn’t a bad thing
jovial arch
That’s not just overlap that’s near total overlap
languid ember
it is supposed to, but just because it will hunt sauropods doesn't mean it can't hunt other shit, that's just bad game design if it's only good against one big fat thing
normal fern
Like it could hunt trikes and rex food. Making him a bit more versatile than rex, but gets shit on by rex itself
sly hatch
Just an option
verbal acorn
Yeah, I’d imagine a pack of Carnos going after an adult Para as a stretch...but doesn’t means the can’t try
languid ember
for me atleast it's pretty obvious that the devs want giga to somewhat limit the mid tier population
but as i said, it's too good at it atm
jovial arch
Then ask yourself, what is everything else supposed to hunt
sly hatch
Carnos small prey
verbal acorn
Carnos should hunt small prey solo and low-med tier medium herbs as a pack
jovial arch
And if you build Carnos kit in such a way everything it hunts is hunted by one other creature
You have a problem
sly hatch
Carnos probably didn’t pack due to them eating small prey
normal fern
That was just progression carno
languid ember
lol, i just tested, carno takes 6 fucking minutes to go from empty stam to full, that's a depressing amount of time
to regen that is, not deplete
normal fern
Oh yeah, carnos stam regen is a joke
verbal acorn
I mean look...no one is implying Allo shouldn’t be able to hunt small prey because of niche overlap.
sly hatch
Carno is a joke
verbal acorn
@sly hatch That’s like saying Lions or wolves probably didn’t pack because of small prey
verbal acorn
Especially considering the Carno’s head and jaw was built for biting and holding
sly hatch
Carnos on the other hand really weren’t made to take on larger prey
Their skulls are to small to do much of anything
Not really no
verbal acorn
Tre is no need to adapt to bite and hold small prey....but it’s worthwhile if you are hunting up a weight class
sly hatch
They had a whole lot of elasticity to it
Coco the point I’m trying to make here is that there will never be a whole realism aspect to this game albeit it being a realistic looking game
There will still be niches though and certain species need to have and keep their own niches to maintain an ecosystem
verbal acorn
They weren’t designed to crush or bite away. They didn’t do damage through a series bites....it was wearing down prey through a single bite and hold.
languid ember
dude, seriously, stop with your realism bullshit, we don't care. It's a game
wintry cipher
fun fact every dino is gonna get a bite and hold for preds. so carno wotn be unique in that aspect.
verbal acorn
All I’m suggesting is let the Carno be a low damage biter. It’s more than enough for small prey...but also allow them a bite and lock for use against medium sized prey while packed. This way, Carno isnt soloing medium prey
sly hatch
They already are a low damage biter
Their damage is so low
And yea as mama keit said
verbal acorn
The bite& lock would be a complimentary feature for what they already are...but acknowledging their inherent ability to expand their prey selection in a restricted, but specialized way...packed big cat tactics using a bite & lock.
@wintry cipher I’m aware, I’m only suggesting the Carno utilize that bite and hold in away reflects its specific use as a take down and wear down technique utilizing its bite. Namely, bleed buff and/or stamina drain that renders the prey incapacitated/unable to effectively fight back(but not dead)...allowing the Carno to finish them off with a series of its weak bites to kill them.
Basically make Carnos a pack of leeches, that fly at you like a salvo of torpedoes
High speed, low agility torpedoes that bracket larger prey and pile on with single bites and jaw locks
barren zephyr
@sly hatch arent you the one that suggested giving other dinos bonebreak?
sly hatch
That’s me friend
barren zephyr
ya ur irrelevant
barren zephyr
anything rng is garbage
its not dick riding its needed
if you get caught by a rex is ur fault
verbal acorn
Somebody found that lump of coal early...
nova shell
wonderful chat to click onto
anyways good suggestion kevin
carnos stamina is a pain to regen
jovial arch
If Carnos hp regen is still what it was
Ie 50 when sitting
That seriously needs to go up
Like, 40 mins to heal to full is kind of
.-.
I think they might have buffed it tho
languid ember
it definately must have been buffed, carno heals quite decent. I've been messing around with a herb pack for the last hour as a carno and it certainly doesn't take long to heal of hits
jovial arch
Okay then
sly hatch
Get bit by a dilo fren 😉
uneven sluice
anky does need it
rose sundial
holy moly
cloud plover
As per usual, My favorite giant wall of text
jovial arch
I just want a balance rework
Tbh new mechanics can wait
If they’re working towards creating balance I’m all for new mechanics
barren zephyr
^same
barren zephyr
anybody else remember playing for more then a year wih no scent
people love fi complain
Pepperidge Farm Remembers
and so do I
topaz epoch
Still can't effectively use scent around some bodies of water anyway
I think I'd like the compass to show up still when raining
visual mural
To be fair
permanent injury is was keeps big animals from constantly killing for no reason
no point in hunting small animals for fun if there is a chance that one might scratch out your eye
rose sundial
ah yes
ivory haven
Working on a suggestion regarding a more in-depth herding/packing system. Out of curiosity, what do you guys think would be a good incentive to herding outside of numbers?
ivory haven
For the first part how about this-
Instead of glowing gold, footprints of the same species glow blue.
Maybe not blue specifically, because water scent is already blue, but it's a simple change that makes a big difference.
barren zephyr
Incentive to herding would be the need to travel. If food locations changed with season. Or required different types of food only grown in certain sectors of the map. Herbis would need to move and if herbis need to move then its safer to travel in numbers.
verbal acorn
Aren’t bushes depleted if you eat from them long enough? Or are you suggesting an area have a max food resource that is pumped into bushes and bush respawns until its all used up...forcing herbs to find greener pastures. Though that might encourage herbs foraging solo...
barren zephyr
More like adding 3 types of bushes to eat . Each filling a third of the food bar. If you only eat one type of Bush your hunger bar will only fill up to 33%. Basically herbis need to diversify their diet to max out there hunger bar.
Herbis just need encentive to move right now we just find an empty spot on the river with a couple bushes and never leave. Because there is no reason to move as a herbi until you get so bored that you need to find something and beg it to eat you.
or that a rex finds you
naive helm
Currently traveling is discouraged by large swatches of land with no bushes in it so if you leave your guaranteed bushes area, you may starve.
barren zephyr
That can be solved by adding more bushes.
To add to the above maybe if a herbi does diversify their diet and keep it in the top third of the hunger bar they get a slight dam/speed/health buff depending on species.
@barren zephyr rex is so slow it doesnt matter. I just stand by a bush in the middle of a field and rex cant get me.
yeah but everyone else can see you
Nothing else can kill my maia herd except giga but they cant catch us either
maia
I'll call a friend and we'll see
I had 3 maia and 2 paras and nothing attempted
mint gull
barren zephyr
Yes but if there was a mechanic to encourage herd movement the rex could wait in ambush in the timber and have a chance at eating us. And we would of had a reason to move besides being so bored that you want something to chase you.
wintry cipher
oof. sounds like a fun time
verbal acorn
So is venom intended to be highly lethal? What kind of counter-balance will there be?
wintry cipher
given dilo isnt the fastest animal in the world; running away is my guess.
verbal acorn
Can I get a Utah to suck the venom out...yeah Utahs, suck it!
barren zephyr
not many animals have natural venom resistance
i just wanna know it it can stack
cause will pack hunting dilos be was scarier
verbal acorn
They would inherit the earth
barren zephyr
well i mean
rn para can see dilo and fucking run it down
and murder it
my idea for venom was different at first but if its getting a bleed resistance then i get it
bleed resistance lower thing
tho it will still need a decently high bleed
i liked it when night was darker D:
they can
they are like
verbal acorn
Yeah, but I’m always get my dung-hole eaten out by Utahs or bled out by Dilos...I lose sleep because of those damn rats
barren zephyr
if you look in the speed ambush
paras are .5 mph faster than dilos without ambush
makes me sad
well i mean
their bleed is supposed to be the deterrent to hunting them but rn bleed is akward
if your running then bleed is a fucking monster
but once you sit down
bleed isnt scary\
dilos have amazing healing and bleed
prolly for dilo on dilo fights
they can survive 2 carno hits
unborn quail
Even then, most people could care less about bleed and just go out of there way to slaughter you
verbal acorn
Unless you an apex juvi...then they slaughter you
unborn quail
If im completely honest, im more concerned with reworked Cerato and Dilo
barren zephyr
cept for cerato
unborn quail
So many creatures stacked in a small space of speed
barren zephyr
cerato juvie is monster
unborn quail
That wont be fun
unborn quail
1.9*
verbal acorn
Even early sub-adult apex have to worry about Dilos
unborn quail
Its supposed to be a monster towards things like dilos ans utahs
unborn quail
That comparison isnt really fair, Im talking when it gets reworked and becomes faster
barren zephyr
im not complaining about juvie cerato
barren zephyr
yea
unborn quail
Where is Ceratos going to sit
unborn quail
Just gotta wait and see I guess, hopefully the speeds are addressed as they are added
barren zephyr
cerato may have to be wary of dilo once combat is updated
casue if venom" reduces bleed resistance
then
ceratos strong resistances
unborn quail
For all we know Cerato will be resistant to its venom as well
unborn quail
Hopefully we get more details at a later date
But seeing as its meant to be A Honeybadger/Mongoose/Hyena thing
Venom resistance seems likely
Ontop of the bleed
Maybe not to the extent of its bleed resistance, but definitely enough to allow it to take one or two dilos without too much worry
clever leaf
barren zephyr
yea well
if dilo has low bleed then it might be cause
everything will suicide it
which irks me
the only thing i like from that dilo suggestion is the tracking
like a viper
or rattlesnake
What I want to know is, if the reworked cerato is smaller faster and has less health than the current cerato, What will distinguish it from an Allo? It sounds like a reskinned allo to me.
wintry cipher
it wont be able to hunt what allo can and it will eat rotten flesh. most if not all other animals would get sick from that
unborn quail
Basically look at full grown juvie Cerato
And slap some speed on it
Amazing bleed resistance
Soon to be Rotten flesh eater
And possible cannibal
unborn quail
Bully of the small tiers
barren zephyr
and can steal food from bigger things
unborn quail
Its effectively becoming a high end low tier
Dropping from the mid tiers
And being a middle ground between low and mid
barren zephyr
I see, I didnt realize they were making it that small. I thought it was getting a slight reduction.
unborn quail
It'll probably be slightly bigger then the new pachy
But we wont know until dondi gets his hands on it
As he does all of the final sizes and speeds
Iirc
barren zephyr
what i really hope
is that pachy doesnt chase down dilos and murder it
cause if its not utah food
its prolly not dilo food