It is basically a Dilo with a tankier build is what yoour saying to me
#general-feedback-discussion
barren zephyr
warped harbor
wintry cipher
they still do bleed. but yeah theyre getting buffed
brisk mesa
I dont see how a fox
Is supposed to be deadly
to an animal heavier than a Lion
aka most juvis
lol.
lament thorn
lmao
wintry cipher
idk what the devs have in mind but im going to encourage it if it means it will kill afkers
and be food for the not afkers
brisk mesa
I mean, thats like death by a thousand cuts
stoic wing
if we get spino then i dont see how neovenator would be a problem
wintry cipher
yis. death i am used to dealing as utah hahaha
brisk mesa
XD
lament thorn
spino??
brisk mesa
How is spino tied into smol neovenator?
stoic wing
no but the fact that spino is getting added in when were getting sucho
barren zephyr
Yeah but both are gonna be two diffrent things
stoic wing
how?
barren zephyr
Utah and Dilo
lament thorn
^^
stoic wing
"Dilo is just a slower utah with bleed"
not to mention Neovenator would still have its unique mechanics
barren zephyr
There are already Dinos in survival that basically do the same thing and they get added because they look different enough to be worthy of it however neovenator is not unique
stoic wing
how is Neo not unique?
lament thorn
for every reason we just mentioned
barren zephyr
It is just a overgrown utah
wintry cipher
imo dilo and utah are perfect examples of "similar" dinos being made unique from one another
stoic wing
its not lol
lament thorn
it is lol
barren zephyr
It is lol
brisk mesa
Neovenator just, well, doesnt seem necessary at all, when we have other small tier dinosaurs.
That could be used.
We have Austro and Herrera.
Use them instead of spending 7 thousand dollars.
barren zephyr
You know what would be better than your Neo Herra it actually has a fuckin gimmick
brisk mesa
hell its ability isnt that special
stoic wing
no
brisk mesa
Seriously&
barren zephyr
Grabbing shit
brisk mesa
Picking up corpses better?
stoic wing
grabbing and carrying
brisk mesa
yeah something all dinos will do.
stoic wing
and pushing
barren zephyr
yeah you know what dino would need that more Allo not Neo
stoic wing
not the same thing
brisk mesa
Lol.
barren zephyr
They are
brisk mesa
Your abilities are just, 'Neovenator does X better than you'
wintry cipher
As for Neo -carno already has the small prey hunter gimmick. i see the tripping ability which could be something fun to play with, but not sure if its all that useful if your made to snatch small prey quickly rather than make them tumble and have an even greater risk of getting away from you in the heat of the moment.
brisk mesa
Tumble would be silly to animate
wintry cipher
if you hunt small things you want to snatch it in your mouth and kill it instantly
brisk mesa
^^^^
wintry cipher
which most do
lament thorn
i mean everything could have the trip mechanic
stoic wing
what?
brisk mesa
trips majestically with toast in mouth
wintry cipher
nah im thinking of what cheetahs do watt
barren zephyr
The fuck Watt xD
wintry cipher
LOL
lament thorn
yeh cheetahs are a good example
lament thorn
smack them majestic back legs
barren zephyr
We do need fall animations becuz just having your dinos violently t posing as they fall to their deaths is just dumb
brisk mesa
LOL true
wintry cipher
allo and carno could technically use that with either a claw swipe on a wider range of prey, or a sideways headbutt to knock things off balance
brisk mesa
Ok but I wish fall anims looked cool
Like, say a Carno is 'falling' from a small ledge
Arches its back
extends legs forwards
facing downwards
barren zephyr
gali dryo and utah have fall animations exdee
brisk mesa
They do but others dont.
barren zephyr
give dilojumpplease
also give dilo knee replacments
So i Tried to find a good picture of a dino falling but all i found was this
perferc
wintry cipher
Meis I'm going to hunt you down and maul you >.>
anyways yes all dinos need fall anims. i think basing them off of the current fall anims could be workable
still temple
neovenator = allo clone
clever leaf
normal fern
@stoic wing
There is zero reason to add neovenator when we already have allosaurus.
Ability seems cool though, give it to Allo on top off or over its planned ability and Allo becomes more unique and interesting
clever leaf
Tfw we encounter manh more docs of clones
barren zephyr
So it's a Dilo clone
stoic wing
its not
barren zephyr
It is
normal fern
We already have enough clones as is, no need for neovenator
stoic wing
first its an allo clone now dilo?
barren zephyr
It was always a dilo clone
will it have a jimp
jump
gibdilojump
Also really i don't think the devs don't need to add anymore dinosaurs it is ok as it is
still temple
at least there's a significant size difference between allo and giga
+they already had models
stoic wing
there can be significant size between neo and allo too
normal fern
Size is irrelevant, this is a game
make Allo the same size as giga and it's actually more unique.
Bigger arms would make Allo better at killing sauropods than giga.
Make nei giga sized and you literally have giga
stoic wing
what
still temple
stoic wing
how does arms help against sauropods
normal fern
Grab on to them easier
still temple
you could grapple them
normal fern
Tbh there's really no difference between juvi giga and neovenator
stoic wing
what
barren zephyr
allo could also run to a maia pin em down and just go fucking ham on it
thats what i wanna see
heh
No GuYs NeO iS uNiQe BeCaUsE iT cAn Do ThE sAmE tHiNg As AlLo 
stoic wing
Sucho can do the same thing as spino
normal fern
BuT iTs NoT A cLOne
barren zephyr
Sucho is atleast fucking special
still temple
debatable
normal fern
@stoic wing I agree, I love sucho but a sub spino is the same with an added sail.
But we aren't talking about sucho
stoic wing
no but its a legit comparison
barren zephyr
Spino will be a fucking beast a strong fuckin apex while Sucho is your daily neighbour who likes to go fishing and scare off allos from his property
Also why the hell do you always feel the need to bring up Spino and Sucho when you are in a disscusion
still temple
problem is, your argument for Neo is literally just "the game has clone dinos already, why cant [insert dino] be added"
normal fern
BeCAUse I lIKe iT
stoic wing
yeah sure
normal fern
It is
still temple
If you present actual unique things Neo can do, then sure.
but all you've done so far is stating mechanics that will be added in the future for allo
barren zephyr
Yeah it's pointless how about instead off adding dino's that will cost the devs thousands how about they instead use models that are unused
hurr de durr dryo is just a shitty galli
wintry cipher
dryo is a stealth mode galli. as for diablo......
barren zephyr
maia is just a smaller faster para
stoic wing
unused models are still low quality
normal fern
@stoic wing credit where credit is due, I liked the right click arm attack idea you had
stoic wing
and would need remodels
still temple
no? lots of unused jake models hold up pretty well
barren zephyr
im just hoping dilo venom wont be usless
normal fern
But would suit Allo more than neo
stoic wing
herrera model is atrocious
still temple
Herrera is a vlad model lmao
barren zephyr
cause low bleed wont do jack shit even with lowered bleed resistance
stoic wing
same goes for austro
stoic wing
yeah
stoic wing
my point is reusing old models would probs cost just as much money
normal fern
Have you not heard Alberto? That thing sounds savage
still temple
ur examples are completely irrelevant tho
stoic wing
no they arent
still temple
herrera and austro arent jake models, and they're not unused models
barren zephyr
i mean
stoic wing
models
still temple
unused as in they dont have anims, calls, skins etc
stoic wing
so the "waste money" argument is invalid
still temple
p sure herrera and austro got a full set of calls and anims
normal fern
Kind of are, your talking about models that actually need a remodel.
Ava, camara, Alberto are all "unused" but they hold up fine
barren zephyr
i mean some models are unused but aint bad
still temple
jake models are fine, it's the vlad models that need to be remodeled
barren zephyr
OK this is becoming offtopic get back to the talk about neo or i will have to call bullyhunters
stoic wing
ok i might change up somethings
normal fern
Tldr, neo is juvi giga
stoic wing
i still think neo has potential
what
how is juv giga similar in any way
please tell
barren zephyr
Neo has no potentiol dude it's just a goddamn Dilo without Crests
normal fern
Small, with sped up animations fairly nimble and just useless in general
stoic wing
juv giga is small and weak and cant hunt for shit not to mention its slow and dies fairly easily
barren zephyr
Watt that is a great suggestion Btw o7
stoic wing
are you saying that juv giga is a dilo clone?
normal fern
You can speed up juvi giga with new animations, you can buff its health and damage.
Stats can change
stoic wing
then allo is a sub giga clone
normal fern
Arms my dude
still temple
neo to juvi giga is a piss poor comparison
stoic wing
yeah
normal fern
Opens up new opportunities for murder and mayhem
Anyway got work, I'll be back later
stoic wing
"dilo is a neo clone" "no lol arms my dude"
stoic wing
yeah but its jaws are ten times worse
lament thorn
are we really still talking about the overgrown utah?
stoic wing
its not an utah
lament thorn
it is
stoic wing
so its not a dilo then?
lament thorn
it can be a dilo if you want it to be
stoic wing
is it a dilo or a utah?
brisk mesa
Guys... stop arguing over it, you won't come to an agreement on it.
lament thorn
thats how generic it is we can call it anything
stoic wing
you guys cant seem to find a conclusion because it aint the same thing
brisk mesa
You think its unique, they don't.
stoic wing
you cant be a clone of two dinos at the same time
brisk mesa
You are all wasting callories typing out your argument.
stoic wing
i dont care if im "wasting callories"
brisk mesa
Carnage, you won't pursuade them.
Face it.
And Blue, you wont convince Carnage that it's a ditto to Utah/Dilo
barren zephyr
Yeah can we instead talk about Watts great great suggestion
lament thorn
lemme grab a drink and we shall
brisk mesa
I think, honestly, the best part about my Camara is it's two birds with one stone: it makes sauropods have a shot at playable, but also spices up herbivore gameplay in general.
lament thorn
me like
barren zephyr
However Watt watt about Brachi 
brisk mesa
Suppose that, if Trikes are in a herd greater than idk, 4 maybe, they are starting to get the dick from affinity? But a Camara Trike herd could support 8 or more before getting the dick from affinity.
lament thorn
the only issue i see with this is herbivores killing each other so they can claim the cam
stoic wing
packs and hypos are very rare too
brisk mesa
Thats subjective; IK a lot of people who love 'Pue type gameplay'
Thats actually the point wolf.
XD
still temple
the issue I see is herbivore megapacks
stoic wing
i wouldnt call that a lot
stoic wing
its just that the minority is very vocal about it
lament thorn
ok Watt just thought of everything we dont need to be here
brisk mesa
Lol.
Flaffy, the largest issue with normal herd megapacks is their mixed nature.
They have their fast members like Para, and slow brutes like Trike.
A Cama herd is stuck to the Cama, and is not mixed.
or they lose their buff.
Cama isnt running no marathon.
stoic wing
wouldnt cama be untouchable 90% of the time
brisk mesa
So while its very, very dangerous to get close to a Cama with a herd
stoic wing
cause packs
stoic wing
yeah
stoic wing
no but killing it would be very hard
brisk mesa
Dangerous AF for the Giga sure, but it can bleed it out fairly safely.
Also, it still dies to humans if it doesnt have a herd.
Also, Cama has no real incentive to herd with other Camas.
Its unique in that regard;
it wants to herd with something fast enough to protect it from humans.
stoic wing
i still think it lacks a little bit in the fun factor
brisk mesa
Ideally, from the Cama's PoV, herding with Maias or Paras is more advantageous than Trikes...
So it might, if it sees a Maia herd appear that cannot drive off the Trikes
aggro on its Trike group, to obtain a faster group.
Its a really, unique dynamic
It might not want to be the totem of given dinosaurs.
lament thorn
some people just find cam fun and i am one of those people
crude girder
Would cama be able to disable its totem?
brisk mesa
Nah, to create that unique gameplay dynamic, once adult its turned on.
stoic wing
imo no animal should be easily preyed on by anything
without a fighting chance
like humans
would just fuck that thing up
without it getting any chances of escape etc.
brisk mesa
Yes we know, hence why it wants a herd to protect it, to be able to go after humans and drive them off.
Thats the workaround.
Playing Solo Cama would be silly.
stoic wing
but that would punish solo players
wintry cipher
definetly a unique dynamic compared to other dinos
brisk mesa
^^^^^
crude girder
Afaik, humans have no real reason to attack a cama anyway, waste of ammo, too much resources, and the predators the gunshot would attract aside, it would also have to deal with other herbs right?
brisk mesa
Except people are assholes Hyper
stoic wing
who knows
wintry cipher
why on earth would you play solo as a herb tho? your defense is the herd.
brisk mesa
Griefing.
stoic wing
maybe camas will be resourceful
barren zephyr
keit you obv have never played kos galli
crude girder
Fair enough
barren zephyr
only true intelectuals like me do it
mental sleet
Because its interesting keit.
also, herds always end up getting found by large groups of predators
brisk mesa
Yeah, but a Cama herd has a huge affinity buff.
They could ward off a pack far better than a non-cama herd.
crude girder
How fast can you make a baby sauropod before it is stupid?
brisk mesa
So having a land whale is a huge benefit to whoever can claim it.
mental sleet
not enough, hyper.
stoic wing
doesnt affinity just keep you stable?
barren zephyr
a thing where they thought baby sauropods ran on 2 legs
stoic wing
i dont remember it buffing
barren zephyr
or am i the big stupid
stoic wing
or am i wrong?
mental sleet
@barren zephyr dondi once showed us the juvenile t.rex animation of it being carried
crude girder
That was a while back, with some apatosaurs or smth @stoic wing
mental sleet
Unfortunately, growth makes baby carrying a problem.
crude girder
But idk if that would be enough, short legs
I can't see it being much faster than taco
wintry cipher
a young sauropod doesnt have the weight on it to be all that heavy. could have a diff walk and trot, maybe even be capable of running
still temple
brisk mesa
Lol
crude girder
If Cama got to around diablo size really quickly, I would totally play as it, don't want to be stuck as a meatball forever though
lament thorn
honestly i wouldnt mind if growth was paused while being carried but that might cause some issues with people trolling
stoic wing
couldnt you just make it so that growth pauses when you get carried?
still temple
there may or may not have been evidence of sauropod bipedalism when babies
crude girder
Then again, you wouldn't be spawning in at hatchling size
I guess the better question is how big should cama spawn in?
blazing charm
Apologies for the late response, was asleep.
@brisk mesa I understand where you are coming from, it sounds totally broken at first BUT, I stated in the document that for balancing purposes that the debuffs should only be stacked to a certain number of times, not to mention the effects of the debuffs would be short. What I did not think needed mentioning however would be things like the weight classes. I'd imagine the "deep wound" system to be slightly ineffective to large creatures, you'd have to apply a deep wound way more times to something Rex sized. (Because that was the example you provided)
@barren zephyr What I was trying to get across in the document was Alberto being fragile, for it's SIZE. As in it would be taking far less hits than an Allo would. As for the speed. I was trying to go for a decently fast creature with a medium-low stamina pool, and decent regeneration. Something that is more about closing a gap quickly then chasing something for a long distance.
wintry cipher
its already going to be pretty big compared to other .4 juvies at .4 tbh
blazing charm
(also sorry for the wall.)
crude girder
Paras are massive compared to dryo, so a similar size diffrence would make sense imo
brisk mesa
Ah it's fine and hell I didnt think it would be broken
I thought it would be awesome
:)
blazing charm
Oh, I kind of that that's what you mean when you said it would be the most devastining hunter.
blazing charm
I suppose, but there needs to be some balance. Obviously
barren zephyr
I wonder about Alberto
What if crushers could mess with someone's sensory system when you bite the head of something with a head that they can bite full force into?
still temple
maybe thrashing could be given to Carno as well since it's skull could take large amounts of pressure
stoic wing
But what stops sub trex from also having this feature?
wintry cipher
camas are also the greatest weakness of other dinos
brisk mesa
Explain
wintry cipher
why the fuck would you kill the thing that makes hunting your preferred prey come around more often? ie: tribals maybe want maias for food
they wont kill the cama
theyll kill the maias and leave the cama be
still temple
sub rex = not fully developed muscles = weaker bite
brisk mesa
Hadnt thought of that...
stoic wing
still
stoic wing
it cant be that much weaker?
wintry cipher
im a tiny bit gleeful i realized that. you should add that to the suggestion
as a reason to add it
still temple
an adult human can easily abuse a teenage human
brisk mesa
Erm.
brisk mesa
child soldiers my guy
IK a 16 yo
he's 6'04
weights 270lbs
He is the big fucking lad.
wintry cipher
i knew someone who was 6' at 14 and he's 7' now at the end of high school
brisk mesa
Doesnt matter he's a gentle giant
still temple
fine, average adult human vs an average teenage human
wintry cipher
XD
brisk mesa
Except the average teen is smaller than adult.
Compare a large lizard vs juvi alligator
Juvi Alligator is a baby
and smaller...
still temple
individual variation is not a thing in the Isle. (not yet at least, affinity system tyme)
brisk mesa
but it will SHRED a nile monitor that is close
stoic wing
but in this case the teen is just as large as the adult
if not larger
because sub rex will eventually get larger
brisk mesa
Eh, a Subrex is not larger than an Alberto
But no, age doesnt mean crap, even an immature animal can be deadly.
still temple
adult forms of animals tend to win in fights against immature forms of animals the same size
blazing charm
Also I kinda emphasized that Alberto would need to be reworked to not be so comparable to Sub Rex
wintry cipher
young cattle can be a royal pain in the ass to an adult human if they get headstrong
brisk mesa
Why would a sub rex have a unique mechanic?
It would have adults if anything
Snapping necks...
I see that as unlikely it would get a custom ability.
Juvi Utah may be able to pounce, but it wouldnt ever get a swarm ability.
barren zephyr
But between Alberto and Sub rex? who wins?
stoic wing
alberto probs
brisk mesa
I'd say Alberto lol.
stoic wing
but sub can win
wintry cipher
whoever gets the drop on the other if the sub rex is big tbh
stoic wing
in some situations
brisk mesa
More experience.
stoic wing
that depends
brisk mesa
Lol?
Only cases where immature animals win is in matches of raw strength, or ambushing.
brisk mesa
In that country??????
No.
Child soldier vs california tec company dude duh, child soldier is deadlier.
stoic wing
experience
wintry cipher
exactly. experience in killing. tech dude would heasitate. child soldier wouldnt
stoic wing
brb gonna play lol
brisk mesa
The great equalizer one?
About guns?
Well in animals, there aint no equalizer.
A young wolf would hesitate against a fox, or not go for the kill immedietly.
We even see this in cases where the young animal wins against a comparably sized older one.
wintry cipher
lemme get one. the baby buffalo and the wolf
brisk mesa
There's a nasty vid out there with a Juvi Alligator killing a Tegu
north vector
I get brachi is pretty bulky but something like apato, which does have a model, would be cool to see too
brisk mesa
Also here's my main issue with the idea:
Its SUPER awesome, but seems to fit Allo even more.
An ability that benefits packs?
Deep wounds?
Thrashing?
SCREAMS allo.
wintry cipher
https://youtu.be/K6TnWW1s4hE?t=138
^ not a perfect example, but this buffalo cant be more than a couple weeks old -and it manages to fend off a wolf that seems close to 1.5 to 2 years old. both are inexperienced, but the wolf definetly has the edge in experience.
ik the mother ends up distracting the wolf, but early on you see the calf managing to at least hold its own for a bit
brisk mesa
Yeah the wolf is biting its face, not the throat Lol
compact coyote
it bit its neck a few times
brisk mesa
yeah but it didnt get a good hold
point is, that was fucking cool yo
-people say herbivores are weak
compact coyote
i think people say that cause they are 
wintry cipher
....thats it im going herb again for today just to prove a point. if your "weak" you need to be smart enough to avoid those weaknesses. its how you survive for longer than 10 minutes
stoic wing
what about trike
mental sleet
oh that one's shit.
wintry cipher
trike is shit, yes, but if you take rex and giga out of the equasion it's a god
compact coyote
yeah
stoic wing
if you remove all dinos except dryo
mental sleet
Let's pretend sub-adult trikes don't get fodderized.
stoic wing
dryo is god
compact coyote
yall think you alpha till the bush starts walkin
brisk mesa
Lets pretend Trike doesnt die to bleed like its nothing...
wintry cipher
to be fair; ive seen trike herds of 20+ lately. doesnt seem like they have much trouble surviving after a certain point.
mental sleet
they are forced to hide in the corners of the map until they reach that big of a herd size.
wintry cipher
then the challenge is food
mental sleet
the triceratops is forced to herd in large numbers to MAYBE protect itself from apexes.
That is not good
wintry cipher
im not saying it is a good thing. there is a way for them to survive though
thats all i was arguing for.
mental sleet
There's always a way to survive for herbivores.
That is unquestionable.
As long as the map has corners
Herbivores will be able to survive somewhere.
verbal acorn
@brisk mesa I hate you so much right now...that “Totem” suggestion is gold
brisk mesa
LOL
stoic wing
pretty much trample damage
north vector
@mellow fern thats a question not a suggestion
stoic wing
@mellow fern
north vector
I would consider changing you wording on that
brisk mesa
@verbal acorn I love it when you hate me XP
next nexus
that totem suggestion goes against one of the very foundations of the affinity system. >Deterring Animals of different species working together
north vector
^^
next nexus
mix packing with herbs is still very much an issue, hence why the "different diets" suggestion to separate stego and trikes etc since a mixed herd of them would compensate for each others weaknesses
brisk mesa
Yes, but this makes them not want to mix lmao.
Trikes would not tolerate Stegos near their Cama.
Bc then they miss out of being able to be in larger herds without an affinity penalty.
It adds an actual point of friction between herbivores that otherwise isnt actually there.
If a herbivore contests for their specific plants, one simply leaves, the weaker one.
It has no reason to try and outcompete the stronger one.
But even if your Maias cant fight a Trike directly
They can definetly try to claim the totem for themselves;
Drive off the Trikes by eating nearby food
Forcing them to ditch the Cama
who is now up for grabs.
north vector
The cama doesnt really benefit too much from being a totem though. Its acting only to the benefit of others. A cama can defend itself fine without a herd of weaker things around it
brisk mesa
No, it definetly benefits...
Bc Humans.
And packs.
Bleeders in general.
Are a problem.
north vector
They would still shoot it if they wanted
It really doesn’t solve the problem
Guns
brisk mesa
No, it does; Dondi mentioned the problem wasnt being shot
north vector
Theyre long ranged
brisk mesa
It was bleeding to death
and not being able to ward off the humans
"dying would be a chore"
north vector
Still doesn’t stop it from getting sniped
brisk mesa
So we can presume that guns wont be able to kill them quickly, but its moreso it cannot run away.
It cant chase the humans down.
next nexus
you counteracting mixed packing by mixed packing though. At the end of the day, its a herd of 1 species protecting the camara, potentially group of camaras because people will do that.
Herbivores grouped with a Camara could be more aggressive without affinity debuffs, travel in larger herds, etc, bc the Cama's buff offsets the negative affinity caused by these actions. - this bit is actually retarded btw
brisk mesa
griefing.
Camaras wouldnt group bc of food demands, and being with other Camas does not benefit them.
Why would you wanna pair up with another slow, hungry mofo which cannot go after the humans?
Especially if it cannot attack well from the front either?
north vector
Thats not a very intriguing nor interesting playstyle
brisk mesa
And nesting babies isnt?
north vector
Sitting around helpless without some herd that needs a buff
brisk mesa
You arent helpless.
north vector
Humans exist
next nexus
because it can attack from the back, again, going back to why mixed diets was an idea kicked around. the animals compensate each others weaknesses, get a trike herd for the front, camaras for the back. Boom badda bing, the herd is unstoppable
brisk mesa
^^^^^the point, your head
I'm comparing Trike vs rex
and cama vs humans
Same scenario.
Your fucked
north vector
Ah yes, human players love getting close to what they want to shot, especially if it is powerful
brisk mesa
Cant tun
*run
No, I'm saying something isnt useless if it is hard fucked by something
north vector
At a distance a human will still be an unavoidable threat
Your suggestion creates more problems than it tries to solve
stoic wing
the only way to avoid humans would be at night but even then it would be hard
brisk mesa
Doesnt matter if its a Trex or Cama or trike.
If a human has a sniper, some .50 cal shit
A Cama is just as fucked as a Rex
stoic wing
no
north vector
Rex can hide
stoic wing
a rex can hide somewhat
north vector
Camara cant
brisk mesa
Rex hide...
stoic wing
rex can move
stoic wing
not even close
brisk mesa
and you havent seen it yet
barren zephyr
WATT
brisk mesa
You die.
barren zephyr
are u whywatt on don stream?
north vector
Ah yes because rex and camara are the same speed
brisk mesa
Yes lol
stoic wing
no
barren zephyr
lel hypo ik good right m8?
brisk mesa
yes it is
stoic wing
no it aint
barren zephyr
report carnage
brisk mesa
(talking to Ric)
civic sky
i mean, if a human sees you from afare you won't even hide to begin with you'll be dead. But i get what the issue is.
stoic wing
oh
next nexus
I just don't get it, you want this dinosaur to offset the system that is being implemented to stop negative behavior ......because???
stoic wing
have you seen dondis past clips
brisk mesa
Because it fits with how people play sauropods?
stoic wing
when hes a human
brisk mesa
Yeah I have.
stoic wing
turns out rex can be pretty hard to spot
brisk mesa
Bc current merc mechanics are crap :P
Also
Cama is smaller than Rex
Literally is.
Go on test level.
north vector
Sauropods shouldnt have to rely on other dinosaurs for protection. Goes against the whole stick with your species thing too
brisk mesa
You are legitimately smaller than a T.rex
stoic wing
no dinosaur should rely on others
north vector
^
brisk mesa
Wtf.
Did anyone ever say a Sauropod cannot survive on its own?
No.
I never did.
You guys did.
Its against humans it has the same bad matchup
next nexus
if anything this is just supporting the fact that they are not a good playable creature, having to warp the play style so much into an abusable buff monkey just because you want it to be playable
brisk mesa
It has a longer neck than a T.rex
but its body is short af
It can easily hide in lightly forested areas.
north vector
Still cant use speed in any capacity to evade a human
stoic wing
it would have to stay still
north vector
Rex can
stoic wing
rex can crouch
north vector
But it can outrun humans
stoic wing
trike is irrelevant
north vector
Thats the whole point
brisk mesa
Cama used to be faster than Trike.
So.
IDK why the smallest sauropod simply cant be, oh idk, not autistically slow.
stoic wing
cama makes much noise by just moving alone
stoic wing
crouching have you heard it
brisk mesa
trike even?
Does Trike make a lot of noise when it moves, why yes it does.
Its loud as fuck.
north vector
I would like to see a human catch up to a running trike
brisk mesa
Its slower than it used to be.
north vector
A human can jog to a fleeing camara
brisk mesa
Trike is 16mph my guy
Thats not a hard speed to pass for a fit person.
You dont need to be usaine bolt
north vector
Its still way better than camara
brisk mesa
Just reasonably healthy.
brisk mesa
Even if it moves 11mph that doesnt make a tangible difference.
Both are slow
boy
have you played Cama before?
Shit looked fine moving fast
north vector
Either way your suggestion still doesnt solve the issue
wintry cipher
again: other than to troll the herd, why should a human bother killing something that actually makes things easier for them? Ie: food and materials. or if your a merc, hey, stick a fuckign tracking chip on that sucker
and track big herd movement
north vector
Because people are trolls
wintry cipher
the instant that sucker goes down you know a hypo or something big is in the area
brisk mesa
Its a perfect decoy as well.
Tribals wanna kill Gigas?
Hang near the camas
Wont go far
And big bleeders will love to have a go at it
stoic wing
because herbs would avoid cama
brisk mesa
Not with this ability :P
wintry cipher
not fi it gives a huge affinity buff like watt suggested
stoic wing
also what if cama and humans cooperate
brisk mesa
What if Humans and ANYTHING cooperate
Thats stupid man.
Humans cooperating?
yeah, tribals tame shit.
stoic wing
also one thing
brisk mesa
hell this isnt some balance issue unique to my Cama idea, anyone could hypothetically work with humans
stoic wing
cama got no defense against tribals
stoic wing
arrows
brisk mesa
Thats barely any damage lol.
wintry cipher
i imagine tribals would prize camaras as signs of good fortune and try to keep one -but if dinos eventually just get weaker over time with tribals, tribals will be forced to continually "refresh" their dinos. plus that gives dinos reason to want to escape tribals. you get weaker over time, means the tribals will kill you
brisk mesa
Bows arent tribals main weapons for damage, down the line.
stoic wing
yeah because one arrow to the head does sooo little damage
wintry cipher
plus, that then wastes the time of people who cooperate with humans
brisk mesa
A Camara would be, once again, better alive than dead.
Even if not kept.
If the herbivores all go towards it
that gives them a more reliably area to tame shit
/ kill shit
wintry cipher
plus that cama cant trap you. at worst it can tell the tribals whats nearby -but in the end, if the tribals come, and the herd sees them, they run them down to kill them or run the fuck away when they realise that cama is a traitor
and with custom colors
north vector
Theres still no real unique gameplay being offered here
wintry cipher
it will be easy to identify which cama is the traitor
brisk mesa
Sauropod gameplay is in itself largely unique, and also being a literal thing that others try to obtain, but you might not want to be owned by a given group?
A cama doesnt want to be 'owned' by Trikes
it would rather faster herbivores
So you would be a lot about betrayal
Tag along with the Trikes for now...
But the moment a better group of herbivores arrives
Drive them off.
north vector
Youre still encouraging mixed herding
north vector
something that has been said to be discouraged
brisk mesa
This flat-out discourages mixed herding bc it makes other herbivores fight eachother
brisk mesa
It makes herbivores as a whiole not want to form mixed herds with others.
north vector
brisk mesa
And makes herbivores fight eachother
If Stego and Trike have their favorite plants in different places
That doesnt discourage it.
It just makes it more akward.
They arent opposing one another.
They just are best suited to different places.
But if Stegos and Trikes actually have something they both want, and largely benefit from, they fight.
And thats the opposite of mixed herding.
Camara would create situations that would otherwise not happen.
This Totem Camara would actually create Herbivore Vs Herbivore gameplay
@north vector @next nexus IDK about both of you, but me, personally, making herbivores actually contest something and rival eachother over something, making herbivore gameplay more interesting as a whole, is the lesser evil to making one dinosaur a-OK with mixed herding.
wintry cipher
there. got the suggestion in
next nexus
If a herbivore contests for their specific plants, one simply leaves, the weaker one. It has no reason to try and outcompete the stronger one.
hey psst hey, forcing the other party to leave is actually contesting each other
contesting doesnt always mean they have to all out fight each other
shite suggestion, when you even admit its a mixed herding encouraging, anti affinity negating mechanic- its not a good system
"getting shot in the face is at least a quick death compared to being shot in the stomach"
and like... affinity should already stop mixed herding in theory, so why have another thing that does the same job BUT also makes it so said party with the cam can then be shitters and go around killing all in their path without being punished by the system set in place for everyone else without a dedicated camara player?
its soooo stupid
nova shell
I think spanking affinity of those who stay tribal pals say in and day out would work just as well
and that the debuffs outside of affinity would suck for the player
what if they just can't find an opportunity to escape?
well that sucks for them, here have debuffs to make it harder and harder
nova shell
ofc why would you need to be smart and tactical when making combat and hunting decisions when in groups, when you would just not be able to hurt your packmates?
sounds great
sarcasm
wintry cipher
its the fact that if you consistently die to the same tribals more than 5 times cant be just bad luck. there is much more chance of you being killed early on as a juvie by another dino for example, which would break the chain.
nova shell
i get that part
it's just that a dino that got caught without working with the tribals and is actually trying to legit play would be getting debuffs that make it harder to escape, which means they would be there longer, which would make it harder to escape, and so on
they would become more and more useless while their uselessness would prevent them from becoming not useless
and eventually they're just a useless juicy sacrifice for the replicator
barren zephyr
@shut gale Good job. I do think that perk system would be a really big bonus gameplay wise.
shut gale
@barren zephyr who's that guy? 🤔
barren zephyr
Sorry XD
brisk mesa
@shut gale What kind of other perk trees would there be other than fighter or hunter?
Also, I'd say probably Hunter would offer benefits to scent instead of bleed itself.
shut gale
like the idea
brisk mesa
Like, scent lasting longer, being farther etc
warm ridge
stalker?
shut gale
but rn there's little game mechanics so there's not much i could use 😐
brisk mesa
I mean there is actually!
violet magnet
i'd think hunter and stalker would share benefits
brisk mesa
You could have nurturer say,
increased benefits for packmates
So increase their stam regen
violet magnet
boosted affinity from nesting or raising babies
shut gale
hp regen is in there
brisk mesa
Nah grievous, moreso it would be about directly say, reduce their growht time
No I mean
shut gale
as for pack mates that's for when the affinity comes in
brisk mesa
Not for yourself
I'm talking a support perk tree.
You have a 'tank' one if you will
a hunter one as well
But why not allow people to have a support oriented one?
warm ridge
Maybe reduction to the movement and sniffing sounds you make as a perk in stalker
shut gale
that support tree would work much better when the affinity system is in place.
it wouldn't make much sense making one now not knowing how the system is gonna work
but i like that idea aswell 😄
brisk mesa
I mean I dont think affinity is strictly relevent
Or needed for a support tree, moreso
Say, spitballing here
one line increases the growth speed
So if a pack member dies
they can reach adult faster
when they meet back up
One would increase stamina regen of packmates
So they can last longer in a fight vs a big target
One could reduce the hunger needs of packmates
and so on.
shut gale
i see its a cool idea
shut gale
but you couldn't apply it now..
brisk mesa
AFAIK the affinity system won't do things like that, it will offer slight buffs
but moreso penalize dirtbags
shut gale
but it might include a mechanic that detects what dinos are close to you
makign it usable for ur range thing..
that's my point...
warm ridge
For jaffad's herrera doc suggestion a size decrease would probably be necessary for it to be taking over burrows dug up by tacos
Like just slightly
Or instead of taking over the holes it just had the ability to dig the hole open a little, snag the taco, and leave 🤷
blazing charm
I was thinking of making it that, but to be completely honest I have no idea how large Herrera truely is.
I might add that in to the document.
There, added that in.
warm ridge
👍
waxen elk
Again with the “Weak Austro” mentality...
Ok
It’s ability is a solid 10/10
But how it compares to others...
If we take Austro’s size (making it smaller would just turn it into unenlagia and thats boring) it would be probably evenly matched with Utahraptor, maybe a bit weaker because of it’s bite force, but i could see two austros doing short work of one Utah
blazing charm
I tried to be as reasonable with it's strength as possible, I tried to emphasize how it should rely on a pack if it's deciding to hunt.
waxen elk
Basically: you can fight, but just because you CAN fight, doesn’t mean you should
Imo
If we’re not having Utah anymore
Why not
Shrink it
And make Austro slower but stronger
Switch roles
blazing charm
We don't know what exactly is happening with Utahraptor.
waxen elk
Sadly
blazing charm
We don't know if it's remaining the same but getting a name change, or if it'll be down sized.
blazing charm
Possibly, I just threw it in there becuase I needed an example.
barren zephyr
@blazing charm you forgot to add LUUUUURDU
barren zephyr
waxen elk
Phones are bad i’ll get on my computer to be able to communicate better and perhaps give an analysis
Yeet
L U R D U BOYS
leaden night
Utah is just getting a name change
next nexus
^
remodel, updated sounds, semi poster child of the isle as he is featured on the steam update image
lets delet utah
its just a rename, might even make magna raptor obsolete as they can change him to any made up isle specific species now if they really wanted
warm ridge
Some people suggested achillobator
leaden night
Which fits even less
warm ridge
Oh?
leaden night
Achillo has the size but not the looks
warm ridge
Oh like the head?
leaden night
Ye
warm ridge
i see
leaden night
TI raptor is basically a weird JP raptor
A new made-up name would be better
Especially since the whole name changes comes from it not fitting the animal it was originally named after
warm ridge
I wonder if a small touch up on the model's head would cost too much to be worth it
leaden night
Not even that
Utahraptor is a weird mofo
It's entire head is weird and its chunky
warm ridge
huh
leaden night
It's basically a Dromaeosaurid who wanted to be a Tyrannosaurid
warm ridge
I'm kind of worried for a novaraptor situation
leaden night
Yeah it will be pretty out of place going by how all of the other animals are actual genera
But TI is weird mutant land of doom
warm ridge
Yeah ik but it always keeps some consistency ya know
like the mutants are mutants
they generate from something more ''normal''
Or so it seems
idk
leaden night
Well yeah but a specially made raptor would be normal considering the lore
warm ridge
I guess
waxen elk
Utah
Raptor that wanted to be a tyrannosaur
Fitting...
because
Austro
Raptor that wanted to be a spinosaur
And no, Utah should NOT be deleted
wintry cipher
its the posterchild human hunter just like rex is the posterchild base raider. its not gonna be deleted lol
waxen elk
Imo it should be a bit smaller now that it doesn't need to be "Utahraptor"
But if it remains like this then uh sure go ahead
wintry cipher
that would only serve as a buff tbh. it just needs a rename. thats it.
next nexus
hey, remember don did say that utah may have needed a size change to pounce on all the animals it needed to pounce on
waxen elk
As in
next nexus
Deinonychus aint off the table completely
wintry cipher
it would have needed a size change if it had only used the old pounce
wintry cipher
looking at the shake animations -i think the devs figured out how to get utah to do more than just hang onto the side of something
dont need a size change if its literally on their back
waxen elk
or keep it like this it actually doesn't matter
wintry cipher
plus. think about dryo sized utahs for a minute. youd never see them even if theyre close to you
wintry cipher
yeah. just like they are now
waxen elk
say goodbye and hit the road....
wintry cipher
only with a size nerf
waxen elk
Ok but
wintry cipher
theyre harder to hit
waxen elk
Dilos would bully entire packs
Yeah
keep it like this
Just not as strong with that 125 bite force
70
wintry cipher
PFFF
you do realize its the bleed right
could care less about the dmg
its the bleed killing rexes
wintry cipher
wow 10 hit
impressive
10 hit
when dilo 3 shots them with bleed
just run long enough to be fatal to both
wintry cipher
like i said. run. because your a dead fucker anyways
might as well take them with you
waxen elk
ugh
wintry cipher
running = more bleed dmg
or
stay at night and stay in woods
where dilo is meant to be
then you cant get your ass run down even by reshade utahs
waxen elk
Even though Utahs have better turning radius but ok
Utahs are very agile and fast
They can be anywhere
I've played as them
wintry cipher
turning radius doesnt really mean much if you run into a tree and cant see for 2 seconds and you turn when they didnt think to turn. and yeah, ik
and i play utah actively
and im telling you what dilos do
that fuck me and my pack over
i think people really overestimate what utah is actually capable of and dont try to figure out strategies against them. the biggest deterrent? groups. literally cant hunt anything big if its in a group of 2+
utahs whole thing is finding isolated targets and taking them down because they are alone and cant cover their tail
waxen elk
overestimate
lethal mauve
@waxen elk If austroraptor wouldn't do bleed, or do minimal bleed compared to Utahraptor, a 2v1 still wouldn't guarantee the fight being in the austros' favor. Also, depending on how the affinity system is handled or how it could possibly detect you initiating a fight on a utahraptor instead of the other way around, it might negatively affect your affinity if you decide to hunt one as an austro.
loud stream
You know, a lot of these balancing issues could be resolved if the dinos who need serious consideration to be implemented into survival just turn into AI instead. Just imagine having something like an austro to hunt in the water as a sucho as it dives around 
blazing charm
Well, bleed refers to creatures like Allosaurus and Giganotosaurus
creatures that specialize in slicing.
blazing charm
I mean, alright.
blazing charm
I think you've missed the point entirely.
I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned that bleed for other animals is going to get reworked
blazing charm
instead of all animals having damage over time, it'd be more for tracking
and the specialists would keep the damage/debuffs
I THINK
Don't quote me on that
waxen elk
🤔
blazing charm
But it's more or less that kind of thing.
lethal mauve
If austro dealt very little bleed compared to utah then yes, it would still do bleed, but not as much as utah which would mean it would be less effective at killing utahs even in pairs or small packs
As the utah probably only needs to land 2, potentially 3 bites
wintry cipher
or utah would just pounce and its one shot.
waxen elk
I mean.. with the current stats
lethal mauve
and with a weaker bite damage from an austro and lower bleed it would depend on proper damage
waxen elk
250 weight mass....
lethal mauve
more hits and no DOT puts it at a pretty good disadvantage even if they were "fairly even"
A fight against utahs and austros would involve a lot of movement
meaning bleed would have a large influence on the outcome
so yeah, I don't think a pair of austros would be able to kill a utah even if they had similar weightmass, with austroraptor probably still being slightly lower in weightmass
despite not knowing what utah will be like
waxen elk
well shit
wintry cipher
austros would at least have one trump card. water.
lethal mauve
Well yeah but they wouldn't be trying to hunt a utah in the water
because a utah wouldn't be swimming in the middle of a lake unless it was asking to die
wintry cipher
an austro prob wouldnt be hunting an adult utah period. juvies, maybe gallis (but those suckers could kick them to death), dryos, etc
waxen elk
Or if it wanted to get to another side of the lake
wintry cipher
anything small that came to the water to drink
wintry cipher
i could very easilly see austros patrolling up and down streams, catching fish along the way as they look for larger prey items
like pike
lethal mauve
Larger than a pike