Starliner Crew Flight Test

[keen niche]

There was also a US flag hidden in the structure of Surveyor 1 that should be pretty in tact

https://www.fastcompany.com/90372040/the-charming-conspiracy-that-put-the-first-american-flag-on-the-moon

All of the flags that were placed on the MLI of the ALM's should also be intact

[timber zealot]

Isnt it 3 times now

[wind laurel]

HOOOLY SHIT

[little sinew]

oh wait yeah

[zealous robin]

still less then Starship lmao

(atleast in terms of flights)

[little sinew]

Starship did zero orbital flights tho

[bright sedge]

starship in its current state is the world's largext icbm

[zealous robin]

Starliner only did 1 subortibal flight

beat that

[little sinew]

daymn

[bright sedge]

plsplspls tell me it was broken down

[wind laurel]

It was not 😔

[pure prairie]

b12 did 0 flights and calypso did 2

[short crest]

https://x.com/dominickmatthew/status/1802031639792632297

Matthew Dominick (@dominickmatthew) on X

We have been looking at aurora out the cupola windows a lot lately. Starliner was doing some testing today so we decided to check it out from the Dragon windows. Timing was great for the aurora to line up nicely with Starliner’s service module thrusters.

Twitter · Jun 15, 2024, 5:33 PM

[little sinew]

Starliner is powered by an aurora

real

[empty jackal]

It’s the helium leaking

[little sinew]

LMFAO

[gritty sequoia]

just a quick helium dump

[humble arch]

Starliner is a helium balloon confirmed

game over for Atlas V

[little sinew]

real

[empty jackal]

HOLY MOLY https://vxtwitter.com/DrChrisCombs/status/1802732045363274086

[distant goblet]

They coming back on the 26th

[humble arch]

https://fxtwitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1803101399984566456

[harsh junco]

lmao

[sage gyro]

Are they scared to bring them back or something

[opaque kettle]

More likely wanna poke around the service module before it has its molecular bond privileges revoked

[zealous robin]

How come Demo-2 got to stay like 3 months and starliner only 20 days

[arctic hearth]

Demo-2 turned into a makeshift crew rotation mission

CFT is just a crew test flight meant to test Starliner and then come back

[arctic hearth]

In fact this is why it launched in May. Dragon and Falcon were ready for launch in April but both astronauts needed further training for the extended mission and Bob in particular got spacewalk training specific to the battery replacements they were doing back then

The extended training began in January, took them about 4 months to complete

Pretty much non stop training

[wind laurel]

no way has it already been that long since the launch hello??

[cursive crater]

Hi

[humble arch]

If you count the quarantine days it will be almost the same

[faint portal]

ill be honest at the start i thought i was looking at a render of the Sea Dragon

[wind laurel]

sea dragon? no no, see starliner

[bright sedge]

The only American capsule that does not enter the sea

The irony of that

[little sinew]

Starliner is hydrophobic

[zealous robin]

Heliumphobic

[zealous robin]

Lmao

Technically varda spaces thing was a capsule

It landed on

Well land

[wind laurel]

Additionally corona was intended to land in the air

But this still is true if you specify crewed

[static crown]

"land in the air"

[wind laurel]

Yeah

Aircraft catch on the way down

To prevent interception

[opaque kettle]

Don’t they just land wherever the airplane does then

[bright sedge]

as you may expect, it didn't go so well

[wind laurel]

Yeah one of them accidentally landed in Venezuela or smth

Goofy ahh program

Although wait one of the coronas was modified to hold a monkey bc of the cover story

So ig it is like primate rated

[distant goblet]

https://twitter.com/jimmayjr/status/1804015661913383048?s=46&t=SJlovVnPcpUgCHuaZoHJ9w

Jim May (@jimmayjr) on X

1/ Apparently a lot of people didn't actually read the news article which inspired these sort of comments and was was written by someone not affiliated with the program nor the actual flight test.

Twitter · Jun 21, 2024, 4:57 AM

[arctic hearth]

Is this another one of those fake NASA employees or what

Ah he's actually for real

Not like that crazy lady

[harsh junco]

lol

[keen niche]

Lidia is bae

[sage gyro]

I ain’t reading all that

[placid crown]

https://x.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1804305956584722871

William Harwood (@cbs_spacenews) on X

Starliner CFT: NASA/Boeing managers have again decided to extend the Starliner's stay at the International Space Station, passing up a June 26 re-entry, to allow more time for analysis to make sure helium leaks and thruster failures are fully understood and to hold a top-level

Twitter · Jun 22, 2024, 12:10 AM

https://x.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1804306115087253903

William Harwood (@cbs_spacenews) on X

Starliner CFT: No new problems have surfaced since the June 26 date was announced eight days earlier, and Starliner commander Butch Wilmore and Sunita Williams are still cleared to undock and fly home at anytime if a station malfunction or other issue crops up that requires a

Twitter · Jun 22, 2024, 12:11 AM

[sage gyro]

This thing ain’t ever coming back

[short crest]

https://blogs.nasa.gov/boeing-crew-flight-test/2024/06/21/nasa-boeing-adjust-timeline-for-starliner-return/

Mission managers are evaluating future return opportunities following the station’s two planned spacewalks on Monday, June 24, and Tuesday, July 2.

[formal drift]

So from my understanding there are no new problems, just delaying the return to not deconflict with other space station activities.

[azure wyvern]

More like they wanna a bit more time checking if they still need to test the propulsion system even more before coming back
So the issues are definitely unresolved to the extent that ground testing and checking pre-flight documentation/photos may not be enough

[keen niche]

The move off Wednesday, June 26, deconflicts Starliner’s undocking and landing from a series of planned International Space Station spacewalks while allowing mission teams time to review propulsion system data.

"We are taking our time and following our standard mission management team process,” said Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. “We are letting the data drive our decision making relative to managing the small helium system leaks and thruster performance we observed during rendezvous and docking. Additionally, given the duration of the mission, it is appropriate for us to complete an agency-level review, similar to what was done ahead of the NASA’s SpaceX Demo-2 return after two months on orbit, to document the agency’s formal acceptance on proceeding as planned.”

https://starlinerupdates.com/

[faint portal]

starliner's return can be delayed up to 10 times

[fathom prism]

Can someone break down the whole thing about starliners return

[empty jackal]

NASA just wants more time to review data. They have Starliner up there, so if they find something in the data that doesn’t look right, they can test. If they found something while they were on earth, they couldn’t test. Simple as that

[fathom prism]

OK yeah, thank you

I figured the whole spacex stuff was bullshit

[pine cedar]

Well it’s also they can’t analyze the hardware back on earth since the SM doesn’t come back

[arctic hearth]

Yeah with Dragon you get it back but with Starliner it burns up in reentry

[opaque kettle]

most of it - the dragon solars and radiators still burn up like with Starliner, you just get back the propulsion system

plus some electronics

[arctic hearth]

Well it's the propulsion system the one that's the concern

[opaque kettle]

or avionics I guess

Since it isn’t on the ground

[digital hollow]

When is this one returning again

[harsh junco]

Whenever McDonnell Douglas figures out their shit

Now early July I think

[digital hollow]

Lmao word

[short crest]

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-boeing-to-provide-commercial-crew-space-station-update/

Leadership from NASA’s International Space Station and Commercial Crew Programs, as well as Boeing, will participate in a media teleconference at 2 p.m. EDT Friday, June 28.

NASA and Boeing continue to evaluate Starliner’s propulsion system performance before returning from the International Space Station as part of the agency’s Crew Flight Test. The agency also will discuss recent station operations.

[distant goblet]

Return date?

[cursive basin]

why is there an old ass iss pic

[static crown]

Damn that is old

bruh it's not like it's that hard to find a relatively up to date photo of the ISS

at least get one with the completed truss section

[wind laurel]

Baby photo for sympathy

[jovial sphinx]

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1806657841379389686

Chris Bergin - NSF (@NASASpaceflight) on X

During this presser, it's expected to be announced that Starliner's return will be targeted around mid-July.

Twitter · Jun 28, 2024, 11:56 AM

[little sinew]

man

[empty jackal]

[granite dock]

💀

[cursive crater]

[sage gyro]

I wonder if Starliner will return in my lifetime /s

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1806672865590428127

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

In many discussions I have yet to talk with someone I deem credible on these issues who believes the Starliner issues are showstoppers. They believe the vehicle is safe. But another long delay, pushing close to the 45-day limit, is a bit at odds with that.

Twitter · Jun 28, 2024, 12:55 PM

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1806673878493889023

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Taking more time to collect and assess data on the Service Module is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the delay. But the obvious question then is why did Boeing and NASA previously set return dates in mid- and late-June?

Twitter · Jun 28, 2024, 12:59 PM

[candid willow]

Eric Berger

[harsh junco]

Eric Berger

[empty jackal]

Eric Berger

[gritty sequoia]

Eric Burger

[granite dock]

Eric 🍔

[jovial sphinx]

Currently thinking that it's because of one of two reasons:

1. The issues from before are proving harder to investigate than originally thought, so the engineers need more time to figure it out.

2. The issues from before are solved, but since then other smaller issues have been found and the engineers want more time to look into them.

[short crest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-BGAPuzxZU

Starting now

[harsh junco]

no new problems

"at the right time" lmao

[granite dock]

They're looking at extending the 45-day limit for the CM batteries

[harsh junco]

end of July for next EVA lmao

did shelter in place for Resurs breakup

[candid willow]

On a tangentially related note

Am I the only one who thinks Resurs-P sounds like the name of a terrible English Soundcloud rapper

[jovial sphinx]

It's missing the "Lil'" at the front of the name

[safe juniper]

resurs-p sounds like the name of a russian satellite

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1806755582520750586
Sorry I can’t sympathise with Boeing’s management stating this
I would have 100% agreed if this is from someone really putting sweat and effort into the system. Not him.

Michael Sheetz (@thesheetztweetz) on X

Boeing VP Mark Nappi says he has Google alerts set for Starliner news:

"Every morning I sit and I read them ... it is pretty painful to read."

"We've gotten a really good test flight ... and it's been viewed rather negatively."

"We're not stuck on the ISS. The crew is not in

Twitter · Jun 28, 2024, 6:24 PM

[harsh junco]

https://fxtwitter.com/lorengrush/status/1806756300920897682

[river sky]

I didn't think media stuck to a standard 9-5

[fathom prism]

no increased risk excluding the hydrogen leak and thruster failures

[river sky]

if you know something, you should probably tell NASA or the ASAP comitte before the agency review

because once that happens I think everyone will be onboard for CFT return

[narrow path]

-0+*

[wanton smelt]

same

[harsh junco]

okay ngl this is funny as shit

[safe juniper]

lol

[keen niche]

Jim cracks me up

[bright sedge]

what the fuck is that yeah button

[little sinew]

LMFAO

destroyed in a single click

[lime pumice]

Any updates?

[little sinew]

real

[empty jackal]

Lmaooo

[safe juniper]

it's like when it was the two year anniversary of the 3 day Russia ukraine war

[short crest]

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-boeing-provide-next-update-on-space-station-crew-flight-test/

NASA and Boeing continue to evaluate Starliner’s propulsion system performance and five small helium leaks in the spacecraft’s service module, gathering as much data as possible while docked to the International Space Station. Once all the necessary ground testing and associated data analysis is complete, leaders from NASA and Boeing will conduct an agency-level review before returning from the orbiting complex.

[faint portal]

five leaks?

nvm, just remembered it has been 5 for a whie

[digital hollow]

When are they returning again

[granite dock]

No date set yet, but hoping for end of the month

[azure wyvern]

https://spacenews.com/starliner-return-eyed-for-end-of-july-as-tests-continue/
Shall I say the answers to questions are really non-reassuring from an operational standpoint…

[wanton smelt]

how long can the crew stay up for

[distant goblet]

They’re giving far more answers than what people got for DM-2

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[granite dock]

Limiting factor are Starliner's batteries

They have an approved limit of 45 days

Which means they have about 10 days left (nominally)

But they are looking at extending that limit

[dusk ingot]

45 days seems like an incredibly short amount of time

[verbal tide]

https://fixupx.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1813981369204126008

[sage gyro]

Not surprising

Don’t mean much tho

[little sinew]

free money

[sage gyro]

Just paid for all the employees lunches this year

[verbal tide]

https://fixupx.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1813993588730053032

[little sinew]

NASA: does it's usual thingy
Literally every single YT content creator: SPACEX SAVES THE WORLD! STARLINER IS DOOMED! NASA GAVE UP ON BOEING! CATASTROFIC FAILURE OF STARLINER DURING THE FLIGHT, CREW IS IN DANGER

[empty jackal]

GAME OVER

[jovial sphinx]

It's Calypsover

[short crest]

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-boeing-to-discuss-crew-flight-test-mission-ground-testing/

[short crest]

https://x.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1816234119891935371

Marcia Smith (@SpcPlcyOnline) on X

NASA has upgraded tomorrow's (Thursday's) Boeing Starliner CFT update from an audio-only media telecon to a news conference livestreamed on NASA TV, etc. Media can participate in-person at JSC. 11:30 am ET.

Twitter · Jul 24, 2024, 10:08 PM

[empty jackal]

Y tho

[candid willow]

Return announcement?

[jovial sphinx]

(hopefully.)

[sage gyro]

Extended stay announcement

[jovial sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/benson-rage-regular-show-regular-show-benson-zwyczajny-serial-benson-gif-2569066836110703060

SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP

[bright sedge]

[dusk ingot]

Oh lawd

[short crest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1P3euTCW8Q

[jovial sphinx]

Not a return announcement

[wanton smelt]

omg

literally new iss module at this rate

[granite dock]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1816501562388390335?t=NhyPhyK7FQ9vp_QvOvG3aw&s=19

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

It's clear NASA does not want to deviate from its base plan of using Starliner to come home, and this remains most likely. But it is not certain. SpaceX and NASA have been quietly studying launching Crew-9 two astronauts. Suits are available for Butch and Suni.

Twitter · Jul 25, 2024, 3:51 PM

[jovial sphinx]

Woah.

[little sinew]

real

I mean it was most likely a part of that Emergency Contract or whatever, so not surprising

[arctic hearth]

Marina is saying the same https://x.com/marinakoren/status/1816507943199887400

Marina Koren (@marinakoren) on X

We're also hearing NASA being more open about using SpaceX to bring them home, if it really came to that. And they should feel comfortable saying that! That level of transparency might look bad for Boeing, but it's the whole point: the agency wanted two providers for this very

Twitter · Jul 25, 2024, 4:16 PM

Also this person is always coping and seething for anything old space related lol https://x.com/Fyredrakeonline/status/1816511387910488260

Fyredrake (@Fyredrakeonline) on X

@marinakoren Getting really tired of this, they are getting data and trying to compare and contrast data on the ground to starliner on orbit to better understand so they can fix it for future flights. They have told you all, that they are planning on bringing them home on starliner.

Twitter · Jul 25, 2024, 4:30 PM

[distant goblet]

https://vxtwitter.com/PebMet1/status/1816605217338626123?t=Xok0JIOKPax7qDp8spPjaQ&s=19

Berger moment

[arctic hearth]

Nah

This is PebMets' usual crap

He's always like that for anything related to Boeing or any old space company

But jumps the gun very quickly if it's anything related to SpaceX

[river sky]

if there's no missing context and that last tweet is the reason he got bocked, that is weird

[plucky cradle]

Berger moment

[vernal wren]

https://fixupx.com/dpoddolphinpro/status/1816513200860635441?s=46&t=0Le5vZqjpKqOaLGUTwd_rw

[opaque kettle]

Manual flying puts more stress on the thrusters, so they are eliminating that from now on
NO FUN ALLOWED!!!

[static crown]

Isn't manual flying like...

a good thing to have tho..?

[cursive crater]

it’s not fully eliminated as the text suggests

just not used whenever it can be avoided

[short crest]

https://fixupx.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1817292086024212742

[distant goblet]

relativity founder going unhinged on twitter over starliner

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/theJordanNoone/status/1817339259201912844

Jordan Noone 🇺🇸 (@theJordanNoone) on X

This test is insufficient to demonstrate "full performance" of the RCS thrusters. The thruster issues manifest at high duty cycle operations or long, continuous operation. Both of those are required before and during re-entry. Performance is demonstrated by a variety of factors

Twitter · Jul 27, 2024, 11:20 PM

[distant goblet]

ngl it reads like "im manufacturing a problem to justify why i think they should cancel starliner"

the only way to test to his satisfaction is to do a rescue dragon which is unnecessary at this stage

[harsh junco]

do you need to manufacture a reason? lol

[distant goblet]

well miranda, what is your reasoning

[opaque kettle]

evidently yes since that’s what happened

[cursive basin]

she has ice cream hair

[leaden umbra]

Wait starliner is still up there??

[arctic hearth]

It is

[dusk ingot]

I can't believe we would allow our astronauts to be TRAPPED in space with a FAULTY Boeing spacecraft instead of using a SpaceX vehicle like TRUE AMERICANS should!

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/joroulette/status/1818713785139605844

Holy shit 1/8 of a billion dollar alone for this extended ISS stay

Joey Roulette (@joroulette) on X

Boeing in its quarterly report says Starliner's "return to Earth was delayed to allow time to perform further testing of propulsion system anomalies" and that those delays have cost the company $125 million so far.

Twitter · Jul 31, 2024, 6:22 PM

[empty jackal]

Coulda saved VIPER with that

[distant goblet]

actually not on CFT, its total overrun from q1-q2

[static crown]

has anyone told them they could just stop testing and return whenever

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1819147216457794016
Key points not known:

...
For a long time, it seemed almost certain that the astronauts would return to Earth inside Starliner. However, there has been a lot of recent activity at NASA, Boeing, and SpaceX that suggests that Wilmore and Williams could come home aboard a Crew Dragon spacecraft rather than Starliner. Due to the critical importance of this mission, Ars is sharing what we know as of Thursday afternoon.

One informed source said it was greater than a 50-50 chance that the crew would come back on Dragon. Another source said it was significantly more likely than not they would. To be clear, NASA has not made a final decision. This probably will not happen until at least next week. It is likely that Jim Free, NASA's associate administrator, will make the call.

...

NASA keeps delaying a decision. A Flight Readiness Review meeting had been scheduled for today, August 1, several days in advance. However, it was canceled. Instead, NASA put out a vague blog update on Thursday stating, "Following the completion of Starliner’s return planning, which is expected to continue into next week, more information will be shared about the agency’s return readiness review preparations and subsequent media briefing." So maybe the meeting will take place next week.

...

Two sources told Ars that in meetings this week at NASA field centers, there have been vigorous discussions about whether or not to fly crew home on Starliner. Multiple groups remain "no" on Starliner as of Wednesday. It is unclear how this will be resolved. Some engineers believe that if there are questions about Starliner, then NASA should opt for the safe course—flying on Crew Dragon, which has safely launched 13 times and landed 12 times.

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

A final decision has not been made, but I now believe it is more likely than not that Starliner's crew returns on Dragon. I asked NASA about this and their reply was not a denial, but rather, "we're evaluating all options." Story:

https://t.co/MazPtCjyIO

Twitter · Aug 1, 2024, 11:04 PM

[candid willow]

Berger is Berger

[arctic hearth]

He ain't the only one reporting this tho

[candid willow]

Who else

[arctic hearth]

Marina Koren from the atlantic published an article on this last week also talking about the talks of bringing Suni and Butch on Dragon

[candid willow]

Hm

Not gonna say you're wrong since you obviously know more than me but I still don't necessarily trust it

[arctic hearth]

Well trust is one thing, but it ain't isolated to one single reporter which was my point

[candid willow]

Fair

[empty jackal]

🍔

[arctic hearth]

Bruh 💀

Seriously someone is comparing Starliner to Ingenuity?

[harsh junco]

what in tarnation

[empty jackal]

I guess

[opaque kettle]

Starliner cft I think may end up being longer than demo 2

funny how those work huh

[empty jackal]

It would be this guy https://x.com/pedromira848/status/1819140565939658986

Pedro (@pedromira848) on X

Twitter · Aug 1, 2024, 10:38 PM

[distant goblet]

Joke

[naive veldt]

haha hahah hahahaha

[cloud herald]

hello there percy, how's life on mars

[naive veldt]

I am so alone, even my only buddy Ingenuity has left my journey

[cloud herald]

😔

[naive veldt]

And earthlings take 10-20 minutes to reply each text of mine.

So im currently focused on finding alien microbes for companionship, pls dont disturb me!

[harsh junco]

wrong gimmick account shut up

[naive veldt]

haha'

[leaden umbra]

I've always seen Berger as someone with good sources

But anything he than does with that info is BS

[safe juniper]

real

[fading mauve]

yeah that sums up berger’s law really well

[vernal wren]

https://fixupx.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1819400442901614905?s=46&t=0Le5vZqjpKqOaLGUTwd_rw

Additional confirmation beyond Berger

[short crest]

https://x.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1819400619695738998
https://x.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1819400712029151331

Michael Sheetz (@thesheetztweetz) on X

The sticking point in discussions this past week has come from not having identified a root cause for why 5 of Starliner’s RCS thrusters failed during docking.
https://t.co/YV8tK7BSXj $BA

Twitter · Aug 2, 2024, 3:51 PM

Michael Sheetz (@thesheetztweetz) on X

Boeing, for its part, continues to contend it has the flight rationale to return Butch & Suni on Starliner without much risk: https://t.co/YV8tK7BSXj

Twitter · Aug 2, 2024, 3:51 PM

[arctic hearth]

Well well well

So it's not just Eric reporting this

[vernal wren]

yeah. lends more credence to it.

[wanton smelt]

boeing is never hearing the end of it from the media if nasa does go with the latter

[harsh junco]

cannot fucking wait for the blue buyout

gonna be so funny

[candid willow]

If they do return them with Dragon then Starliner is fucking dead lmao

Like even more than it was already

Would they even get to do the rest of the ISS contract after that?

[harsh junco]

sunk cost fallacy is a hell of a thing

[cloud herald]

https://x.com/SpaceflightNow/status/1819455181664260402

Spaceflight Now (@SpaceflightNow) on X

8/ Spetch says they're sending some items up for Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, like clothes from their suitcases that were removed for the urine processing pump that flew up with Starliner.

He also says that an emergency response study awarded to SpaceX was unrelated to CFT.

Twitter · Aug 2, 2024, 7:28 PM

"He also says that an emergency response study awarded to SpaceX was unrelated to CFT. He said it was connected Tracy Dyson flying back on Dragon."

[arctic hearth]

#générał-space message

[opaque kettle]

@harsh junco Berger me

[jovial sphinx]

hm

so is Dragon being considered as a way home for the CFT crew or nah?

[cloud herald]

Its within the range of potential contingencies, but as far as like, "this is the plan", no, not as far as officially confirmed anyway

[opaque kettle]

depends who you ask
Some space journalists say yes nasa says not really but we’re keeping our options open Boeing says Starliner is great

[jovial sphinx]

sounds abt right

well we'll have our answer from the nasa folks within a week, hopefully

[empty jackal]

Stupid ass futurism

[jovial sphinx]

no idea why anyone's still posting screenies of them since they're obviously a joke of a news brand and dont deserve attention from any of us

[empty jackal]

Well at least I’m not tapping them and giving them attention

[jovial sphinx]

fair

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1819534540865441814
Theoretically, it's not uncommon for such decisions to be made during crew missions on pretty critical issues for them to get back home in history (lots of STS examples I remembered).
But...I don't think NASA and maybe even inside Boeing Space have managed to nail down that rationale yet, or Starliner would have returned already.

And I think the previously reported-in-official-tele-conference extent of the RCS thruster problem to the point that Boeing reported they want to disable manual controls (due to fears of hitting the thrusters too hard and cause fuel leak to go out of control) might be a part of that.

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Boeing is clearly lobbying for NASA to accept flight rationale in lieu of not fully understanding the root cause of the Starliner thruster failure. It’s an interesting choice to fight this battle in public.

Twitter · Aug 3, 2024, 12:43 AM

[pine cedar]

https://starlinerupdates.com/boeings-confidence-remains-high-in-starliners-return-with-crew/

[vernal wren]

Sheesh

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1820470792842600536
https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1820472125582618839

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

NASA has not held a media briefing on Starliner's Crew Flight Test in 11 days. This is unreal given that it is a test flight, and there are huge questions about how this mission will end.

Twitter · Aug 5, 2024, 2:43 PM

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

In the absence of official information, I will continue to provide updates on what I am hearing from people involved in the program. Some of it is truly eye-raising. I'll have a story a little later today.

Twitter · Aug 5, 2024, 2:49 PM

🍔

[candid willow]

Incoming """"sources""""

[little sinew]

thx I was hungry

[half spade]

"This is unreal given that it is a test flight"
No it's not, Dragon Crew Demo had less media briefings

[dusk ingot]

Yeah that just means they have a lack of certain updates

[empty jackal]

Common 🍔 moment

[azure wyvern]

Well most of the extended Dragon Demo-2 time was understood to be directly used as an "extra ISS expedition" even before launch, which in this case isn't
But to be fair I'm not sure what could be updated during these 11 days anyway, it's not like that we do not know what Boeing et al. are testing

[half spade]

I'm counting like 5 updates on nasa's news release page for Starliner after the launch's one, with like... 2? for Dragon between the launch and return

[azure wyvern]

Well had the landing occurred as planned when Starliner launched I'm pretty sure it would have been also ~2

[half spade]

Both have been about the same length so far,~60 days

[azure wyvern]

Again Dragon Demo-2 was lengthened because the crew was expected to join the on board ISS expedition as extra hands so I am pretty sure there wasn't much testing in between done
Meanwhile I am pretty sure this isn't the case for Starliner (although most of those extra tests are probably done without the need for the crew - what Wilmore/Williams done lately with the Starliner team during the past few weeks seems to be pre-planned tasks that would have been done earlier)

[sage gyro]

https://x.com/james_miyake/status/1820482677075832846

James Miyake (@james_miyake) on X

@SciGuySpace Here’s a little bit of irony:
Of course the Starliner capsule was named Calypso in tribute to Jacques Cousteau’s Research Vessel Calypso. However, originally in Greek mythology the goddess Calypso detained Odysseus on her island, preventing him from returning home for 7 years.

Twitter · Aug 5, 2024, 3:31 PM

[formal drift]

I think this is my biggest problem with Berger. When you lean so heavily on anonymous "people say" sources, how do we know for certain your not making stuff up, or distorting people's words to fit your own narrative.

Compare what Berger does to someone like Phill Sloss, who very rarely uses anonymous sources, and mostly just reports on public info. Like Berger, Sloss isn't afraid to speculate, but that speculation is based mostly on extrapolation from public info.

[arctic hearth]

People comparing CFT-1 to Demo-2 saying Demo-2 was also extended either have some memory vacuum or weren't even around when Demo-2 happened. Demo-2 was extended MONTHS before it flew in order to be able to keep up work on the ISS. Bob Behnken did EXTRA training precisely to perform EVAs on the ISS and help changing the batteries for the station. There's nothing here to compare other than people with really bad memory. Demo-2's mission extension was planned AND served a purpose that was unrelated with any vehicle issues

Starliner's mission has been extended multiple weeks in order to solve an issue with the spacecraft rather than Suni and Butch having to stay longer on the ISS and help the rest of the crew

It's really really different

[formal drift]

Anonymous sources have their place, and can be very valuable when used in the right circumstances, but when you rely on them more than any other source, it comes across as hyper bad journalism.

[arctic hearth]

Bob Behnken was the one that took this iconic photo of Endeavour docked to the ISS while he was performing those battery upgrades

Also HTV-9 photobombing. Its cargo pallet would end up going through some folk's roof in Florida

[half spade]

Ok but I’m complaining about Berger’s test flight part

In that part it’s 100% comparable

"This is unreal given that it’s a test flight"

[harsh junco]

fitting punishment for choosing to live in fl*rida

[arctic hearth]

It's a test flight... with issues

[half spade]

Irrelevant to his point

[short crest]

https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/08/nasa-likely-to-significantly-delay-the-launch-of-crew-9-due-to-starliner-issues/

The article he was foreshadowing

[half spade]

Software update problems apparently

[candid willow]

I remember seeing a while back that one of the family whose house it fell on did a Reddit AMA, but he forgot to clear a fuckload of furry porn out of his post history until afterwards lmao

[short crest]

Officials are contemplating moving the Crew-9 mission from its current date of August 18 to September 24, a significant slip.
This doesn't make much sense if Crew-9 is sticking to LC-39A, given the Falcon Heavy mission on the 10th of October. I do remember one of the recent press conferences referenced September as around when NASA would certify SLC-40 for NASA crewed launches, so perhaps that's what's happening there

Starlink 10-7 on the 10th from LC-39A also makes a lot more sense if Crew-9 is delayed

I was pretty surprised that they were targeting a Starlink only a week before Crew-9 from the same pad

[sage gyro]

Would allow Starliner to stay for longer

[candid willow]

If they're delaying Crew-9 by a month then I doubt the talks to bring Butch and Suni back on it were very serious TBH

[sage gyro]

Three separate, well-placed sources have confirmed to Ars that the current flight software on board Starliner cannot perform an automated undocking from the space station and entry into Earth’s atmosphere.

[short crest]

We're also starting to get into a situation where CRS SpX-31's gonna need one of the docking ports next month

[arctic hearth]

Wdym?

[candid willow]

I mean wouldn't they want to get Crew-9 up as quick as (safely) possible if they were looking to get the crew back down with it

[arctic hearth]

No?

[short crest]

This delay could allow more analysis on whether this is necessary or not

[arctic hearth]

Crew-9 would not return until February

[sage gyro]

Crew 9 needs the Starliner docking port

[candid willow]

Oh I'm dumb then

[arctic hearth]

So they wouldn't be in any hurry either way

[candid willow]

I still don't trust Berger as far as I can throw him though

[short crest]

I only really trust him with SpaceX reporting

[candid willow]

Agreed

[short crest]

And this is partially related to SpaceX, so I'm cautiously believing this for now

[candid willow]

I wonder how Butch and Suni themselves feel about all this TBH

I mean they're trained astronauts so I'm sure they're handling it

But it must be weird to be at the center of something like this

[jade kestrel]

they are not the first crew to have their mission extended after launch

[sage gyro]

What others?

[jade kestrel]

MS-22 crew

[candid willow]

They aren't, I moreso meant all the media coverage and speculation since it's Starliner

[azure wyvern]

Did Boeing made a temporary fix to the software lately with regarding to RCS control such that auto undocking ended up disabled for now?
Seems plausible given they mentioned flight restrictions for the time being with regard to manual control due to concerns with thermal stressing the RCS pipe seals last press conference around

[jovial sphinx]

the main thing I fear here is who he's asking.
I don't think he'd make stuff up (but then again I don't know him well), but the anonymous sources could literally be anyone at NASA (or Boeing, or just any contractor working at either of those), including people who are just the 500th entry in a Chinese Telephone game

Never really liked the practice of anon sources (outside of when it's absolutely necessary, ofc) and this ^ is my worst case scenario, personally

[azure wyvern]

Have you read his latest article
That he was able to give out a date for what he claims as Crew-9 delaying (August 18 -> September 24) seems to really give out some substance to it
The "3 different sources claiming Starliner can't auto-undock" is more suspect but I wouldn't be suprised if a variant of that is really what's happening

[jovial sphinx]

Haven't read his stuff in a while, admittedly

Was just voicing a concern
It's kinda one of those "Big if true!" moments

[jovial sphinx]

Plus, the removal of Starliner's ability to auto-undock/re-enter seems a bit odd

What would be the logic behind that, if any?

Then again, if it wasn't the case, Boeing would've said so when Ars reached out

[formal drift]

Fucking hell https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1820521756182085829

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Boeing business development guy says NASA and Boeing shouldn't hold Starliner news conferences because journalists ask the same question too many times. Interesting take.

Twitter · Aug 5, 2024, 6:06 PM

[distant goblet]

Look im sorry but if i get lectured by some dude who has put precisely 0kg to orbit and is pretending that his startup is more than a fucking job program while my job is putting humans in space I would be pissed to

[formal drift]

Oh no I'm saying fucking hell to Eric Burger

Jim May is fine

I would be pissed too if I were working on a project, while some clearly biased influencer decides to take it upon himself to be the "arbiter of reality" about my project since he isn't hearing what he wants to hear

I don't like Eric Burger if you can't tell

[vernal wren]

That’s a take

[cursive crater]

lmfao

[empty jackal]

🍔

[vernal wren]

Do we think that taxpayer funded projects should get a free pass from oversight by the press

Or that the person giving press updates is the same person working on the actual mission?

Hate Berger all you want but that’s a weird take

[formal drift]

Absolutely not, I just think the way Berger is going about doing it is unethical

[vernal wren]

If he has actual sources telling him this, is it still unethical?

[formal drift]

No, but my problem with Berger isn't the use of anonymous sources, it's just a volume at which he uses them

[vernal wren]

Is frustrating but without knowing who they are, they may be protecting their jobs

[formal drift]

I understand the point of anonymous sources and why they are anonymous, but my issue is that if every sourse is anonymous, it gets harder to belive what your saying, especally when you have a well-known bias

[distant goblet]

I’ll be honest berger’s starliner campaign feels like berger took a look at politico/axios and decided yeah i want to do that too

Otherwise he would have let the TAs and directors make their decisions instead of reporting on all the leaks

[vernal wren]

What is he’s right tho

[distant goblet]

trying to influence decisions before FRR is bad faith

[formal drift]

One can be both right in the end and unethical about how they gain and present info

[distant goblet]

Implying that NASA allowing starliner to return crewed is against ASAP

[candid willow]

Berger might be right but he's almost certainly not doing this because he thinks he's right

He's doing it because he has a pro-SpaceX bent and hates Boeing and Starliner

That hate is arguably justified but it doesn't make him less biased

[distant goblet]

Didnt realize boeing killed his wife

[candid willow]

I mean he certainly acts like it did

[empty jackal]

https://fxtwitter.com/BellikOzan/status/1820494820105949385

https://x.com/deltaIV9250/status/1820496939164864657
https://x.com/joaco12923/status/1820530533795012758

Delta9250 (@deltaIV9250) on X

@BellikOzan Starliner is actually stuck at the station. All of the memes were true

Twitter · Aug 5, 2024, 4:27 PM

joaquín (@joaco12923) on X

@deltaIV9250 @BellikOzan

Twitter · Aug 5, 2024, 6:41 PM

[formal drift]

And I say all this about Berger, but my gut feeling tells me they'll prob bring home Butch and Suni on a Dragon

[sage gyro]

At some point you’ll realise every influencer does it

[cursive crater]

i wouldn’t call burger an influencer

[sage gyro]

Journalist and influencer

They all fall into a similar bracket

[naive veldt]

Its all confusing
BUt at the end i feel bad for engineers @ Boeing

5 years since Demo flight and still Starliner is plagued with issues, rendering it non-operational

and getting highly negative reviews

[static crown]

my crackpot theory is Butch and Suni have sabotaged Starliner so they can stay in space longer

[cursive crater]

honestly they must be living life rn

i’d be buzzing to know i’m on the ISS indefinitely

[naive veldt]

exactly.. true

[wind laurel]

rogozin 😭

[short crest]

https://waynehale.wordpress.com/2024/08/05/flight-rationale/

[bright sedge]

wait so it's unironically fucked?

[candid willow]

Maybe but probably not, Berger and a load of other people are just flinging shit right now

[jovial sphinx]

it's less of that it's unironically fucked, more that the odds of it actually being unironically fucked are slightly higher now given newly revealed information

[opaque kettle]

true tho cosmic penguin has a point too

[opaque kettle]

feels nice to have a level headed take from time to time thx mr hale

[vernal wren]

https://fixupx.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1820915147524681930?s=46&t=0Le5vZqjpKqOaLGUTwd_rw

[zealous robin]

Starliner stranded for 7 years

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/therealdjflux/status/1820932005522985415
Interesting that this is what formally give Nelson the authority to make the “final vote”, not some protocol specific to Commercial Crew.

Flux 🇺🇦 (@therealdjflux) on X

@Chopstickes4 @PTrubey @SciGuySpace The Formal Dissent process details the decision path. The final decision for any formal dissent can be the NASA Administrator. The decision authority is normally delegated to an Associate Administrator, yet the Administrator can make the decision Sec 3.5.5 https://t.co/ne6OBx6XNn

Twitter · Aug 6, 2024, 9:16 PM

[distant goblet]

its a process that was formalized after columbia

apparently many people didnt know about this on spitter

[azure wyvern]

And I didn’t remember that at all (was too young to even remember that despite me already very much into Space Shuttle et al. in 2006), but apparently this was already used back on STS-121:

Mike Griffin had the final say when both the Chief Engineer and Chief Saftey Officer refused to sign the STS-121 Certificate Of Flight Readiness (COFR) over what hazard the External Tank Ice/Frost Ramps (IFRs) posed to the orbiter. When they refused to sign the COFR, it automatically became the Administrator's decision and he decided that as an agency NASA was GO to proceed with the launch. The CE and CSO both wanted to stand down until a safer IFR design could be implemented and certified, but they were overruled by the Administrator.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=60593.msg2613707#msg2613707

[distant goblet]

its used a lot

https://ses.gsfc.nasa.gov/ses_data_2023/230511_Formal Dissent and Technical Authority_presentation.pdf

[azure wyvern]

I don’t think these are examples that reached the Administrator’s desk, but yeah

[distant goblet]

I personally dont know if ive seen any that has been raiesd during my time here (not sure if X-57 got to that level) but its part of teh mandatory training they make all new hires do

I am not sure if there's an equivalent in private space, Armstrong tried to force Astra to sign the docs acknowledging they know the NASA process, and SpaceX doesn't have TAs

doesnt mean TAs dont exist for dragon, they just exist on the NASA side

Also make us do mandatory safety training on remembrance day every year

[vagrant nest]

https://fixupx.com/wapodavenport/status/1821223332987207758

https://fixupx.com/wapodavenport/status/1821223599782687156

[harsh junco]

1085 flying first on a Larstink due to moisture intrusion

[arctic hearth]

First time they admit they were modifying Freedom to bring Butch and Suni down

Something I've been hearing for a month

Even when I was at the Cape :/

[harsh junco]

but they would never do that, it's just a SM issue, nothing is wrong

[arctic hearth]

But nooOooooOooo Eric is a liar!

[candid willow]

Eric can be a liar too

[arctic hearth]

I've been saying for a long time that Eric ain't the only one hearing these things 😅

[harsh junco]

Eric doesn't lie

[candid willow]

lol

lmao even

[harsh junco]

he loses the game of telephone often and stretches the truth occasionally but he doesn't outright make stuff up

[arctic hearth]

Also confirming that the task order for SpaceX WAS related to Starliner

Two task orders in fact

[granite dock]

Lol NASA initially denied that

[arctic hearth]

"Nooo it's for Tracy!!"

Lmao

So many people are gonna be shut up from this

[candid willow]

Alex why do you have to be a dick about it when you're right

[arctic hearth]

Cuz I hate it when I try to convince people with reasoning and data and it doesn't work

So if I gotta be a dick, now it's the moment

[candid willow]

Fair ig

[harsh junco]

because the people that are wrong are dicks about it and they're not even correct so why not be a dick to them if you're right

[candid willow]

So my question recurs then

If they do actually bring them back on Dragon

What happens to the rest of the ISS contract

[harsh junco]

It'll stay

[granite dock]

I don't think they've even though about that

[arctic hearth]

Joey Roulette asked this twice in two different conferences

Sorry three times not twice

And he wasn't given an answer until the third time

[cursive crater]

it'll sure have a lot of moisture intrusion when it becomes a coral reef after its first landing attempt

[arctic hearth]

Answer is they don't know, they would have to look at it

[harsh junco]

in fairness I wouldn't answer joey roulette until I'm forced to either

he gives me big time ick

[harsh junco]

no fox isn't scheduled to be in the ocean then

[cursive crater]

oh right

1088 it is then

i guess my dream was right in a way

[empty jackal]

I hate to say it but I’m kinda on the “starliner just sucks” team https://x.com/BenSharpie64/status/1821171333947920496

Ben Sharpe 🚀 (@BenSharpie64) on X

$1.5 billion over budget.
7 years late to fly crew.
Numerous problems in flight.
Likely stuck on the ISS.

Starliner fucking REEKS.

Twitter · Aug 7, 2024, 1:07 PM

It’s so problematic

I’ve been defending it for years but I can anymore

[cursive crater]

oh wait

maybe theyll launch 1088 for crew-9?

[arctic hearth]

They said they'll fly the same booster

[cursive crater]

Oh so for a second flight

got it

[arctic hearth]

But the booster will get used on Starlink first

Yeh

Something along the lines of SpaceX is borrowing it for a Starlink for the time being

And then will be used for Crew-9

[formal drift]

Starliner can unlock uncrewed from the ISS it just requires a software update

[granite dock]

Software*

[arctic hearth]

Now they're talking about what study they did for Tracy

And Dragon would be equipped with restraints and cushions for an extra 3 people onboard in case Soyuz malfunctions

So 7 people inside Dragon for emergency return

Did the study in such a way that they wouldn't need the seat liner and just cushions

So Dragon has had at least three task orders, all about becoming an emergency return vehicle lol

[zealous robin]

Add 2 extra seats on crew-9 maybe?

[azure wyvern]

I only heard that part that it's about micrometeroids - was it a specific concern with the one Soyuz on the ISS or just a generic concern?

[jovial sphinx]

Dr. Starliner
Or: how I learned to stop worrying and love Eric Berger

[formal drift]

At this point it's clear this goes beyond inexperience on Boeing's part in developing spacecraft

Berger turns out to be somewhat right (I still don't like him)

Gut feeling still says they return on Crew-9

[vernal wren]

But what about the PR person for Boeing that was upset they kept asking the same questions

[empty jackal]

LMFAOOOO https://x.com/astronautnr7/status/1821204360312873028

Astro (@astronautnr7) on X

Starliner be like:

Twitter · Aug 7, 2024, 3:18 PM

[arctic hearth]

Lol

[formal drift]

Eric Berger can be right at times, and he can do good journalism (Liftoff was one of the most enjoyable reads I've had in a long while), I just have in inherit distrust when journalists overrely on anonymous sources especially when they have a clear bias

[candid willow]

Died 1974
Born 2024
Welcome back Skylab Rescue

[formal drift]

I WAS THINKING THAT TOO

Literally also a thruster issue

A-R-S TECHNICA

[viscid ice]

THE BERG

[little sinew]

ice berg

[formal drift]

Can't wait for the tweet

[harsh junco]

borguir

[reef hinge]

mid August is next week!

[half spade]

Incredible things are happening in Berger’s tweets rn

[cloud herald]

bro thinks the Artemis discord is private lol

[humble arch]

It wasnt?

[cloud herald]

I found it just off the web lol, I think it was from the subureddit

[candid willow]

Can you link an embed I completely deleted Twitter

[cloud herald]

https://x.com/sciguyspace/status/1821247846261100897?s=61

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

There is a private Discord filled SLS stans who are 'haters.' These are not regular haters, but super haters. Every time I reported SLS delays they would lose their minds. I was wrong. Making shit up. What they don't realize is that I've had access to the Discord for years.

Twitter · Aug 7, 2024, 6:11 PM

[granite dock]

#générał-space message

[cloud herald]

oh didnt even see lol

[safe juniper]

https://fxtwitter.com/dpoddolphinpro/status/1821227302333681975?t=akRq9Uv-1PZEOhwIw8aXSA&s=33

i mean this is just a shame really

[candid willow]

Jeez

They really are gonna bring them back on Dragon aren't they

[safe juniper]

genuinely liked starliner and hoped it would work

it has a special place in my heart

[little sinew]

trained for 1-week trip
ended up in space for 8 months

[distant goblet]

There wouldn’t be a FD if there isnt a backup

[arctic crescent]

SO the 12:30 Media Conference just ended.

[jovial sphinx]

Who knew that the clickbait dickheads would actually be somewhat right?

Then again broken clocks are right twice a day

[zealous robin]

How do you join?

Someone send me an invite

Plsssss

I am an SLS Stan

[opaque kettle]

It’s just the Artemis discord I’m sure you’ll be able to find an invite eventually but they closed them off for a while cause of getting caught out like that

[static crown]

Wasn't Crew-9 supposed to happen like

this month or next..?

[arctic hearth]

August 18th

It's been delayed to September 24th

[static crown]

oh wait...

it returns in Feb 2025

[sage gyro]

Thought it was march

[fading mauve]

use a cargo dragon to dock with starliner and do the deorbit burn

(i know this would not work)

so let’s say they bring it down uncrewed

if they try to anyway

thruster failure occurs

calypso can’t come home

how the fuck would starliner go on with one capsule

[fading mauve]

eric tends to have accurate sources just sometimes not the best analysis

[fading mauve]

liftoff is such a good book

[opaque kettle]

The obvious answer is build another one but also I’m not totally sure anyone would want to

thankfully that’s pretty darn unlikely

[fading mauve]

reopening the line sounds EXPENSIVE

[opaque kettle]

well yeah but …
wait do they not have a plan to make more than two for any future contracts either?

[fading mauve]

i think the plan was just rotate between calypso and the other one

[opaque kettle]

oh

yeah okay maybe they didn’t have an expectation for anything beyond iss then

[bright sedge]

ssssss1234567890-=09876543212p0-09876543213tr5yuiop[oiuyrewqwertoiup

oops

[distant goblet]

the press conference is very clear that the risk tolerance for starliner is a lot lower than dragon

whether or not thats justified is another discussion, but it is best for the crew

[opaque kettle]

how does that work

[distant goblet]

if boeing wanted to be treated to the same standard as spacex they should have flown first. too bad!

[opaque kettle]

Aren’t first flights (even if this is only a first flight with people) inherently more risky

[arctic hearth]

Starliner's undocking software be like

[distant goblet]

dragon gets their risk waived because theres no other option

theres no need to do that for starliner, obviously

[opaque kettle]

oh right I think I see what you’re getting at, since crew dragon is currently working they think they can rely on it for more risky things but don’t wanna push it with Starliner cause it’s newer? That’d change once both are running regularly I expect?

[distant goblet]

if this exact problem happened in the alternative timeline where starliner flown first there wouldnt even be a discussion about whether or not they can come home. they would just waive the risk and fly on starliner

this happened on c4, the packing disc was discovered early on, work were done to minimize the risk, but there was never any discussion to return it uncrewed because theres no other option for the crew to come back

[azure wyvern]

Packing disc?

[harsh junco]

explosive chute doohickey

[distant goblet]

this is why starliner team say NASA treats them at a higher standard than spacex - absolutely true, but most of the fault is on boeing for not flying first.

put up or shut up

[opaque kettle]

… so by “this” do you mean Starliner flew first and still had this problem, in which case yeah there’s no dragon so of course not
or do you mean Starliner flew first, dragon finally limped along to the station with these thruster issues, and they were trying to decide whether to bring crew home on dragon with the sketchy propulsion system or the more proven Starliner

[azure wyvern]

Oh dear, I just have the time to hear the whole thing - just finished the briefing part and apparently there’s NO specific concern with Soyuz MS-25 itself, and the study for Dyson is “generic”.

Dude, then why they didn’t do the study for Loral O’Hara when she was on the ISS…

[arctic hearth]

Because they thought it'd be funnier when it was the most inopportune

[distant goblet]

Also, theres only a fraction of engineering hours on CFT as opposed to demo-2 because NASA has to you know put significant portion of workforce supporting operational ISS vehicles

Money doesn’t grow on trees so NASA isnt going to put anywhere close to the FTE hours they put to support spacex to boeing. Such is life

[opaque kettle]

Makes sense

[naive veldt]

Oh it's so funny

To make it true Starliner should be remove from PMA and berthed to a module.
That would be perfect for Starliner and ISS too, which PMA free for Crew-9

Someone clarify:
If the problem is in service module, not the capsule, can't they test undocking Starliner, moving it out of ISS zone, and returning it back to the port?
That would prove the thrusters work!

At some point they have to undocking Starliner, so risk of collision will always be there

[azure wyvern]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg4yqepr469o
LMAO even the BBC is framing the situation like this

[safe juniper]

average bbc space article

[distant goblet]

There was never any realistic risk of collision

[fading mauve]

i don’t even need to click the link to know they’re using Nasa😭😭

[fading mauve]

they can’t undock the spacecraft without the crew aboard if the crew doesn’t have another vehicle they can return home in

bc of emergencies

[opaque kettle]

I think that’s the bbc style guide conflicting with nasa’s recommendation but the title is worse

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1821551815671877942

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

An important note on “dissent” and NASA deliberations on Starliner. The agency’s culture truly has changed. There is much more open dissent now than in the past, and it is better tolerated. Why am I bringing this up? Because I believe the robust internal NASA debate over

Twitter · Aug 8, 2024, 2:19 PM

[naive veldt]

Not just for 30 mins also?

[candid willow]

Holy shit a good take from Berger

[fading mauve]

no bc what happens if they can’t redock or an emergency occurs while it’s undocked

[naive veldt]

All traditional news outlets, even in India, report very funnily, (how shld I say?) on space

[naive veldt]

They sure want no possibility to lose backups during emergencies

[candid willow]

Correct

[naive veldt]

Anyone here uses Google AI/ notebooklm?

Pretty useful, I uploaded the transcripts of NASA's audio conference, and could ask it any questions I had in mind regarding it, instead of relying on news

[distant goblet]

Berger didnt even knew about the formal dissent process until this 😭

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1822012460301238688
This assumes that after 3 Starliner flights that resulted in 0.5 total crew flights & >$1b losses, Boeing Space would agree to fly a 4th crew test to pave an uncertain way for 5 crew flights in 2026-30.
Unless of course NASA offers a large sum of money to support Boeing to continue, but where does the money come from? Congress?

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Here's my best guess on how the Starliner saga plays out. Note: No decision has yet been made about how Butch and Suni get back to work. NASA is still working both a crewed Starliner and Dragon return. Just thinking out loud:

• Starliner returns uncrewed with minimal problems

Twitter · Aug 9, 2024, 8:49 PM

[opaque kettle]

it’s such a weird idea

[distant goblet]

Okay but this one is genuinely just him pulling shit out of his ass

[opaque kettle]

Oh yeah he says as much

[jade kestrel]

just like EM none

[naive veldt]

just confirm: are thrusters functioning well or not, after tests?

[arctic hearth]

Bro

[naive veldt]

yes

[safe juniper]

the capsule is working perfectly well

https://tenor.com/view/wink-eye-wink-gif-12352742718877841322

[wanton smelt]

we wouldn’t be here if they were

(i believe)

[short crest]

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-to-provide-crew-flight-test-status-update/

Media teleconference tomorrow

https://x.com/jeff_foust/status/1823454749363966430?s=61

Jeff Foust (@jeff_foust) on X

The next NASA briefing on Starliner is Wednesday at 1 pm EDT. Interesting that neither NASA's nor Boeing's commercial crew program managers will be on the call.

https://t.co/3rZtEQFE21

Twitter · Aug 13, 2024, 8:21 PM

That's an interesting lineup

[naive veldt]

Aerojet's members would be on line?

[opaque kettle]

what?

[naive veldt]

Because their thrusters misperformed

[opaque kettle]

oh I guess

[placid crown]

https://x.com/sciguyspace/status/1823700788616589674?s=46&t=fWHSAXp4AoHMitnKeq6ziA

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

I'm not sure what NASA officials will say at today's Starliner news conference. No final decisions will be made until this weekend, at least. However, based on my latest intel I now think it significantly more likely Butch and Suni return to Earth on Crew Dragon than Starliner.

Twitter · Aug 14, 2024, 12:38 PM

[little sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-the-chip-chips-chip-eating-chip-man-eating-three-chips-gif-18885184

[humble arch]

can be reused

[short crest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyKqaVLpsW4

Starting in a few minutes

[static crown]

Tasty jams

[opaque kettle]

So did they push back the decision again

[vernal wren]

Does not bode well for starliner

[fading mauve]

what’d they say

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/dpoddolphinpro/status/1823839531260420252

Ryan Caton (@dpoddolphinpro) on X

Roundup of today's @NASA Starliner CFT Conference (There weren't any attendees from Boeing)
TLDR; They’re still analysing data, there is no new information on Butch & Suni’s return vehicle.

Current Flight Readiness Review Schedule
Expecting data analysis on Starliner ready for

Twitter · Aug 14, 2024, 9:50 PM

[azure wyvern]

Yeah, could be very late August now

[granite dock]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1824092353247768989

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

NASA’s tentative date for Starliner’s undocking from the International Space Station is September 6, whether the spacecraft is crewed or not. Final decision on Butch and Suni likely to be made about 10 days from now. Both options being worked still.

Twitter · Aug 15, 2024, 2:34 PM

[granite dock]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1824103609400770700

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Clarification! Targeted date for a crewed undock is actually September 2. Uncrewed undock target is September 6.

Twitter · Aug 15, 2024, 3:19 PM

[little sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/twoweeks-totalrecall-arnoldschwartzeneger-gif-5358160

(actually 2.5 to 3 but who asked )

[leaden umbra]

it's no longer stuck!!

or well we know when it will leave

[humble arch]

will we have the most people in orbit after Polaris
or most capsules in orbit

[plucky cradle]

if they line up yes

i think

16 people?

[bright sedge]

The record is above 20 isn't it

[short crest]

The 20+ record includes suborbital

The current record for orbit should be 17

[little sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/boeing-starliner-spacex-crew-dragon-falcon9-gif-25614432

[zealous robin]

I got jumpscared

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/NASA/status/1825964151065243901
This page should have been up 1-2 months ago, but hey at least there’s an official FAQ page now…

NASA (@NASA) on X

We have the answers to your most-asked #Starliner questions. Learn more about NASA's Boeing Crew Flight Test to the @Space_Station—and keep checking this page for the latest updates: https://t.co/vHT5rrOs3M

Twitter · Aug 20, 2024, 6:32 PM

[empty jackal]

https://x.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1826706084201202076

NASA Commercial Crew (@Commercial_Crew) on X

Engineering and spaceflight specialists from @NASA and @BoeingSpace continue data analysis ahead of a decision this week on the path forward for #Starliner return from @Space_Station.

NASA’s decision on whether to return Starliner to Earth with astronauts aboard is expected no

Twitter · Aug 22, 2024, 7:40 PM

[fathom prism]

Can we get a poll for prediction of the outcome

[empty jackal]

Made one

[fathom prism]

We can do that??

[empty jackal]

[fathom prism]

Oh yeah there it is

Ty

[azure wyvern]

Wow 50:50
Certainly not what I’m expecting

[candid willow]

Genuinely have no idea at this point TBH

[distant goblet]

absolutely no one knows atm

[naive veldt]

this is a poll with biased voters.
same like how Elon musk got 76% votes for trump in his poll, there's no way US has 76% trump supporters

@fading mauve am i right?

[distant goblet]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1826784425394536909

Acyn (@Acyn) on X

Eric Trump: Kamala Harris chairs the national space commission and Boeing can't get one of the rockets -- it's docked at the ISS with astronauts stuck up there and you will have to have Elon Musk go rescue them

Twitter · Aug 23, 2024, 12:52 AM

okay he jinxed it

[naive veldt]

why politicize it??

[harsh junco]

because it's eric fucking trump

[naive veldt]

isnt he idiot?
and he mentions boeing's "rocket" instead of spacecraft.. shows his lack of knowledge in the topic he goes to debate

[fading mauve]

yeah the twitter polls aren’t exactly scientific they’re just ego boosting

[harsh junco]

to quote linus torvalds he's "a moron of the highest order"

[naive veldt]

Cool

[harsh junco]

actually yeah go read that whole thing linux man is kinda based for this

[half spade]

I mean, if star liner stays up there long enough maybe Artemis 2 can rescue them…

[naive veldt]

yeah, btw do you think it still represents the fact that trump has more supporters this time?

[fading mauve]

all i know is leg curls

[harsh junco]

funniest possible outcome: it spends so long up there it cold welds to the PMA and they have to release it along with starliner

[fading mauve]

it’s like going into the democratic national convention and asking people who they support and saying that is a poll with any level of seriousness

[distant goblet]

wtf you mean trump lost popular vote two times

also this is the starliner thread

[harsh junco]

he's never won an election lol

imagine claiming election fraud when you stole the oval in 2016

[distant goblet]

he will probably lose the popular vote a third time

[fading mauve]

my favorite argument against getting rid of the electoral college is that it makes candidates not focus on mid america

which like

understandable concern right

BUT

why should votes not be equal because of where they’re from

we have state governments for a reason

[naive veldt]

yeah
by the way i read trump's tweet today calling others "marxists communists" , as if Dems are so much of a socialists themselves? NO. they are still heavily capitalist, lobbying happens everywhere, and who knows it more than Space-fans who see Congress giving fucking billion dollars useless contracts to Lobbyists only companies like Boeing and Lockheed

[harsh junco]

there is no valid reason to not get rid of the EC, fullstop, it is one hundred percent invalid

[dusk ingot]

Big reason for the electoral college is flexibility in situations where something happens to the president in-between when they get elected and when they get appointed

We did just have this with the Democratic nominee so it doesn't not happen nowadays

[naive veldt]

yeah he won the election despite having 2% less votes in 2016... but got 80+ more electroal collage

[dusk ingot]

But yeah I'm still in favor of getting rid of it

[distant goblet]

inshallah HERliner will return her DEI woke astronauts from the ISS

[naive veldt]

perhaps there should be some rework on the system. Dems definitely dont want to remove the electoral collage either...

[fading mauve]

i feel like dems aren’t exactly pro EC

[naive veldt]

yes, but if they wanted to remove it, they could do it now, having president and both houses

[fading mauve]

it’s a system that makes it significantly harder for them to win while giving Rs a boost

[dusk ingot]

Dems have lost more recent elections due to the EC which is why more are in favor of removing it if we're being blunt

[fading mauve]

they don’t have both houses, also wouldn’t it have to be a constitutional amendment

[naive veldt]

yess

[naive veldt]

only 2016, and?

[distant goblet]

Al Gore getting memoryholed by younger people

[naive veldt]

@harsh junco when will NASA announce its final decision?

[fading mauve]

republicans haven’t won the popular vote since 2004

[candid willow]

The EC, like the Senate, is an objectively stupid system which serves no purpose except to disproportionately represent rural white people. Also like the Senate, the prospect of getting rid of it in the foreseeable future within our current political system is a deeply unrealistic pipe dream.

[naive veldt]

you mean 2008 right? they did get more votes in 2004

[dusk ingot]

2000, a date which I wasn't born for but when most current members of Congress were already middle aged

[naive veldt]

whats your problem with senate?

[dusk ingot]

"since 2004" does mean 2004 is the last time it happened

[naive veldt]

btw why is Rural america more republican? because they are more relgious?

[fading mauve]

2000 also was a dem PV win but EV loss

[dusk ingot]

Because the Democratic party is hopelessly out of touch with rural America and so the GOP can tell them whatever they want and have done so and radicalized them

Republicans have a "genius" strategy of generally being pretty good at local governance but also spreading hate speech and shitting the bed at the state and federal levels

[candid willow]

Giving a state with 100,000 people the same power over national politics as a state with twenty million people is a deeply unserious prospect in the modern era. One guy from South Dakota should not have the ability to filibuster abortion protections for the entire rest of the country.

[opaque kettle]

what a cool dude

[dusk ingot]

But as people on both sides have pointed out the Dems have these very coldly factual arguments that do not tend to resonate with rural voters because they're often getting at least partly shafted by them

ie if "fossil fuels are bad we're going to ban them" is all a West Virginia town whose entire economy is based on coal hears from one party, and the other party is saying "we will protect your jobs and livelihoods" (and the companies who paid us money but yk) then that WV community is voting Republican even if the Dems are the clearly factually correct ones

I don't think that accurately represents what's actually going on for two big reasons.

1. There are plenty of farmers who this doesn't apply to and plenty of areas that protect family owned farms from thing like this, even if it isn't the norm.
2. Rural isn't just farms bruh

[azure wyvern]

#off-topic Ahem

[dusk ingot]

Also yeahhh why is this in Starliner

How did we get here

[candid willow]

Okay true

Go to off-topic

[azure wyvern]

Trump Jr. made the linkage between Boeing and Harris lmao

[bright sedge]

mister git

[empty jackal]

How is dragon winning this poll

[bright sedge]

isn't it certain that they're returning on starliner

[empty jackal]

No

But I think they will

I’m fully prepared to be wrong though

[bright sedge]

I will be 100% real I do not give a fuck what they return on as long as they return safely

[hollow heath]

Probably because most people are just guessing at this point

[empty jackal]

True

[safe juniper]

I genuinely think they're gonna come back on starliner

[fading mauve]

if they don’t it’s joever for starliner

[little sinew]

it's boever

[fathom prism]

What actually is the Senate

[safe juniper]

it's like from star wars isnt it

[fathom prism]

Lmao

[naive veldt]

when will they announce the decision? (i hope its starliner)

[granite dock]

NET Tomorrow

[naive veldt]

i really saw a dream today of them returning on starliner, and suni was feeling very hot,
then my dream ended. im not lying

[naive veldt]

ow

[plucky cradle]

Google lost cosmonaut audio

[cloud herald]

[plucky cradle]

[distant goblet]

I wish i got to talk to suni

Didnt even get to see calypso

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/NathanpmYoung/status/1826993424966316074

Nathan 🔍 (@NathanpmYoung) on X

Will SpaceX bring back the stranded astronauts when Beoing couldn't? Probably yes (82%)

https://t.co/cEaFDgY5dw

Twitter · Aug 23, 2024, 2:42 PM

[naive veldt]

biased

[distant goblet]

yeah man just trust predction markets they have never been wrong

[sage gyro]

https://x.com/sciguyspace/status/1827052527570792873?

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

I'm now hearing from multiple people that Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams will come back to Earth on Crew Dragon. It's not official, and won't be until NASA says so. Still, it is shocking to think about. I mean, Dragon is named after Puff the Magic Dragon. This industry is wild.

Twitter · Aug 23, 2024, 6:37 PM

It’s over

[jade kestrel]

I'm still waiting for NASA to confirm things publicly

[fading mauve]

the concern isn’t reentry it’s whether the thrusters get them to it

[fading mauve]

oh shit

berger normally has reliable sources

it’s actually so joever

[naive veldt]

yeah i know this..

[distant goblet]

Incredible

not gonna lie even though im not directly connected to suni lying to the crew for two months is

[static crown]

wut

[vernal wren]

do we actually know they are lying to the crew though

[distant goblet]

Yes

I’ll talk about this tmr. But imho this is insanely unethical conduct from commcrew

Boeing would be justified in cancelling the program

[sage gyro]

Wdym cause I don’t think even nasa themselves have been fully aware of there plans

[vernal wren]

i guess I'm not sure how you know that unless you have a direct source from NASA or one of the astros

[distant goblet]

[empty jackal]

You know he works for NASA right?

[distant goblet]

Do I?

[vernal wren]

Nah. but if he does that’s a bit more of a confirmation

[distant goblet]

[vernal wren]

Oh and sorry if i misgendered

[distant goblet]

im just saying my person opinion. theyre gonna say some boilerplate PR statement tmr

[sage gyro]

Do they actually

[distant goblet]

commcrew wants their cake and eat it

[naive veldt]

im sure starliner will come

[distant goblet]

given how NASA has treated starliner team so far it will be extremely hard to convince boeing to continue the program

[naive veldt]

they cant just cancel it. what about almost 4B dollars given by NASA?

[distant goblet]

as much as i think in general contractors need to put up or shut up about double standards contractors are also justified in walking away from contracts

its a milestone payment

[naive veldt]

wdym

[distant goblet]

its not a full on 4 billion payment

[naive veldt]

nasa wont lose 4B dollars?

[distant goblet]

they get paid in milestones

and since cft milestone isnt complete theyre not gonna get paid for that

[naive veldt]

i know, they were paid part by part.... and starliner crewed test was the final milestone right

[distant goblet]

at the end of the day this is a partnership and boeing is footing half of the bill. dont get surprised when boeing is unwilling to foot more stuff that NASA demands

[naive veldt]

okay, not for that
But definitely all other milestones were acheived and money went

[naive veldt]

woah they are bearing half of the cost? why?

so in actual starliner took almost 8B to develop?

[distant goblet]

because its how commcrew is set up

[naive veldt]

yeah, but surely companies wouldnt spend half of the development cost for vaguely clear future commericial NON-NASA missions

[distant goblet]

spacex did

not sure what your argument is

[naive veldt]

not half the cost

[distant goblet]

its more loss than they expected

[sage gyro]

Ain’t it fixed cost?

[half spade]

Hopefully NASA can cut some scientific programs to give the money to boeing

[sage gyro]

I’d imagine nasa to be very annoyed about all this though

It kinda justified

[distant goblet]

boeing screwed themselves over when they didnt go first

spacex gets more leniency, and you can argument about whether or not thats justified

doesnt mean starliner team isnt also justified in walking away

anyways, i will expand more after the conference tmr, but this whole incident was a gigantic waste of everyone's time for TWO MONTHS and imho incredibly poor conduct from commcrew

[opaque kettle]

I still don’t get what exactly the poor conduct from commcrew was

[distant goblet]

and I am fully expecting a significant portion of starliner team to resign after this

[opaque kettle]

why

[distant goblet]

anyways, i will expand more after the conference tmr

Looking forward to NASA trying to delude themselves into saying this wont kill starliner btw

[sage gyro]

Who is commcrew

Boeing teams or nasa teams

[distant goblet]

NASA

[azure wyvern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGOswKRSsHc

[distant goblet]

may this be a cautionary tale for other contractors about fix price contracts. NASA can just lied to you to get you to do useless work.

[little sinew]

damn 12h

[distant goblet]

heres how the press conference will go
“Out of abundance of caution NASA will have the crew return on dragon.
“NASA is fully committed to continuing starliner but the plans have not been made yet.”

And then six months later
“We have come to a mutual agreement to terminate the Starliner contracts”

[plucky cradle]

lol

[distant goblet]

There i save you some time

Whatever my part was just a small centaur plate that already went to space and deorbited

[naive veldt]

5 hours

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/waynehale/status/1827300015108161843

Wayne Hale (@waynehale) on X

Has there ever been dissention at a NASA Flight Readiness Review when a crew's life was at stake? You bet there has been.

Read my 5 part account of the hardest FRR ever starting here:

https://t.co/AcRozsJPyX

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 11:00 AM

Reference

[sage gyro]

Surprised the result hasn’t leaked yet

[harsh junco]

your brain would have to be leaking for you to not know already

[empty jackal]

Berger already said yesterday anyway

[sage gyro]

Oh I very much know just surprised anything more official hasn’t been said

[cursive crater]

huh i think it’s gonna be return on starliner

[arctic hearth]

Six people speaking https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1827389520553140330

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Here at Johnson Space Center for the Starliner news conference. There are no clues from the setup. Event is scheduled for 1 pm ET. Could slip a bit, but not expecting significant delays.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 4:56 PM

I'm thinking Bill Nelson, Jim Free, Ken Bowersox, Steve Stich, Joel Montalbano and maybe Mark Nappi?

[short crest]

Webcast now live

[candid willow]

Here we go

[safe juniper]

can someone sum up the conference in a short discord message and @ me or DM me cuz im about to board a plane

so i wont be able to listen to it

[short crest]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1827393253123224060

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

Panelists have arrived. There is not a Boeing representative.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 5:11 PM

[arctic hearth]

Damn it I got one wrong

[arctic hearth]

4 out of 6, not bad

[short crest]

Crew-9 confirmed

Starliner will return uncrewed

[static crown]

Holy shit

[granite dock]

It's boever

[candid willow]

https://tenor.com/view/well-there-it-is-jeff-goldblum-gif-14058551

[safe juniper]

ok my flight got slightly delayed

great

starliner is dying

such a shame honestly

[distant goblet]

Yeah the program is dead

[safe juniper]

genuinely hoped it would work perfectly this time

[empty jackal]

So 2 people launch on Crew-9? Sorry I tuned in late

[short crest]

He hasn't said anything about it yet

[empty jackal]

Oh okay

[candid willow]

It's dead Jim

[vernal wren]

That’s wild

[short crest]

Two crew members on Crew-9

Starliner will undock before Crew-8

[cursive crater]

no shit

that was rude not you randomname

[short crest]

Crew-9 still targeting September 24th

[candid willow]

Assuming you mean Crew-9 here, and they just said that Crew-8 will be reconfigured to serve as a lifeboat in the meantime until Crew-9 launches.

[cursive crater]

no

[short crest]

Nah I meant Crew-8

[cursive crater]

crew 8 will undock

before

[short crest]

Starliner will undock before Crew-8

[cursive crater]

it’s taking the port

[candid willow]

Oh wait I see

[cursive crater]

starliner can not dock while crew 8 is in think

[jade kestrel]

so they'll be on the ISS without a lifeboat for over 2 weeks?

[cursive crater]

soyuz

[candid willow]

Right right got it my bad

[cursive crater]

shuttle

[short crest]

Crew-8 will be the lifeboat for Butch and Suni

[jade kestrel]

I honestly feel that's more unsafe then letting them return in starliner

[short crest]

I'm surprised they're doing that instead of an indirect handover between Crew-8 and 9 and having Crew-8 undock before Starliner

Since it seems they're still gonna use Starliner as the lifeboat for Butch and Suni until it undocks

[sage gyro]

Should change the name of the thread to uncrewed flight test

[arctic hearth]

Speaking of Jim... That Jim May guy is awfully quiet

[sage gyro]

https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1827397429282611456

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

NASA is saying "early September" for the uncrewed undocking of Starliner from the ISS. The tentative date I've heard is September 6.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 5:27 PM

[candid willow]

Time for the Q&A disaster

What the hell CBS with a good question?

[vernal wren]

Whole thing is bad

[candid willow]

True

[warm dome]

So what’s the future of the program then ?

[safe juniper]

probably gone

[warm dome]

F

[short crest]

Also wondering what's gonna happen with the other 2 Crew-9 astros now getting bumped off, especially with Crew-10's crew already announced

[safe juniper]

probably crew 11

or an axiom mission but idk

[empty jackal]

Crew-9.5

[digital hollow]

This is insane

[vernal wren]

Where’s that starliner can be reused 10 times

[safe juniper]

go away berger

[little sinew]

gpofy ahh edit

crew-9 page

lmfao it's so fcked up

[empty jackal]

“And we appreciate you limiting your questions to one”
Berger: “nah that doesn’t apply to me right?”

[empty jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/starliner-spin-delayed-10times-starliner-can-be-dealyed10times-gif-25187166

[vernal wren]

Hahaha

[sage gyro]

8 day mission turns into a 8 month

[candid willow]

That's gonna be a sound byte

[empty jackal]

She has such a news reporter voice

[static crown]

lmao typical Fox News

[distant goblet]

This was exactly the case btw

[empty jackal]

I’m all for this, that means more crew safety, and some additional Atlas Vs

[neon bane]

I hope Starliner doesn't crash into the ISS trying to detach and bring the whole station down though

[half spade]

Nelson's out within a year, his comittment to another Starliner crewed launch isn't worth anything

[neon bane]

since you know the auto-undock software plus the newer software since the last test has never been tested before

[empty jackal]

He must’ve scheduled this tweet https://x.com/SenBillNelson/status/1827397664255668574

Bill Nelson (@SenBillNelson) on X

Spaceflight is risky, even at its safest and most routine. A test flight, by nature, is neither safe nor routine. Our decision to keep Butch and Suni aboard the Space Station and bring Starliner home uncrewed is the result of our commitment to safety: our core value.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 5:28 PM

[arctic hearth]

Cue in here all the people in certain other servers crying about this saying Dragon gets a pass on everything

[empty jackal]

That’s why I don’t look in other servers when stuff like this happens

[neon bane]

maybe he's tweeting under the desk!

[empty jackal]

Annoying people

[arctic hearth]

Yeah

[empty jackal]

LMAO

WHO ELSE IS GONNA DO IT

[static crown]

I'm gonna miss Bill

[neon bane]

he's a good administrator

able to sell the case for space funding

[empty jackal]

“Why’d you choose SpaceX”
Well hmmmm it was tough but we decided on SpaceX over SpaceX

[distant goblet]

I mean its literally not wrong tho. My opinion is that Boeing needed to put up or shut up about double standards . But theyre going to cancel the program

[arctic hearth]

But Dragon doesn't get a pass, they also go through data reviews and testing. Difference is they get to understand what's up with those issues and this one unfortunately is not one of those

[static crown]

CCP still needs a second vehicle though

[distant goblet]

It 100% makes sense for the agency to give dragon a pass because there is no alternative

[neon bane]

I heard space suit but I didn't catch what he said about it

[empty jackal]

Exactly it doesn’t

[jade kestrel]

soyuz

[distant goblet]

Im sure you know what happened on a certain mission. The margins were probably worse but there was no other option for NASA lol

At the end of the day the agency makes decisions that benefits the agency and inevitably some contractors are going to get shafted. But such is life

[static crown]

There's definitely several reasons for preferring another vehicle over Soyuz

DC MENTION

[empty jackal]

They can https://x.com/labpadre/status/1827405395738190248?s=46

LabPadre Space (@LabPadre) on X

20 years ago:

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 5:59 PM

[arctic hearth]

Not sure what certain mission you refer to, Dragon has had issues on multiple missions on different systems but they eventually got through the full thing understanding what happened and what to do to avoid it. I'm not aware of any issue that has been repeated after going through said analysis process

[jade kestrel]

you can only make the best decision based on the info available to you at that time

[static crown]

I mean didn't the last Crew Dragon mission have an issue with heat insulation on the hatch?

[distant goblet]

Im hoping someone FOIA the slide deck eventually but given what was said today, NASA can afford to accept a lower margin on starliner because of dragon

[half spade]

Mengzhou
CCP (Chinese communist Party)

[distant goblet]

And yeah this fucks over starliner but such is life

[static crown]

if only we could...

[distant goblet]

And to formally expand on what i said yesterday, the decision to return the crew on dragon was already informally made back in july, but commcrew did not accurately communicate this to anyone

What should have happened is them stating this and said that theres little chance boeing would be able to change their minds

Set expectations right

Instead of sending boeing on a wild goose chase that did not matter at all to the decision making

[little sinew]

finally
someone SANE on this website fixed that crap

[empty jackal]

https://x.com/NoLifeJordan69/status/1827400963084403127

nolifejordan 🇨🇦🌌🚀 (@NoLifeJordan69) on X

It’s crewtron’s time to shine

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 5:41 PM

[half spade]

I trust BO to do one better and quicker

(yes, quicker)

[distant goblet]

I personally know that suni advocated for crewed starliner return btw

[naive veldt]

is the teleconference over?

sorry i woke up just now

[empty jackal]

No

[distant goblet]

And for whatever reason dragon return was presented as a small possibility even until mid august

Even though in reality it was the default option since july

[empty jackal]

Bill looks bored

[half spade]

Do you know if Starliner was really cleared for emergency return/life boat from July onward?

[distant goblet]

That i don’t know. I don’t expect that to not be the case

[half spade]

Thanks

[arctic hearth]

I had heard preparations for their return on Dragon started as early as late June and when Eric Berger talked about it openly for the first time I was like y'all, it's not just Eric hearing these things

[naive veldt]

my concern is , if starliner does return with zero difficulties, NASA would be firegasted or something by boeing, perhaps some lawsuits

[arctic hearth]

No one will say a bad word if it returns fine

I know I won't

[vernal wren]

But Berger bad

[distant goblet]

They already did this before, i don’t think its going to burn up lol

But they failed their mission

[half spade]

https://x.com/jeff_foust/status/1827409927242936507

Jeff Foust (@jeff_foust) on X

Bowersox: we don't know how much we can use the Starliner thrusters before we encounter a problem; that was key factor in decision to return uncrewed.

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 6:17 PM

[azure wyvern]

Those people must not have been following Commercial Crew in April 2019

[arctic hearth]

Oh yeah lol

Also the statement from Jim in September 2019 about them focusing on Dragon

Instead of Starship

[azure wyvern]

He announced that he's retiring even if Harris wins election?

[static crown]

wtf NSF is here??

[arctic hearth]

We have Sawyer and Ryan on the phone

[short crest]

New NASA article, useful for anyone who's not watching and wants a summary
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-decides-to-bring-starliner-spacecraft-back-to-earth-without-crew/

[jade kestrel]

funny that there will now be a russian pilot of dragon

[naive veldt]

exactly what i was wondering, who will be the crew members
Very sad NASA not using more than 4 crew capacity

[empty jackal]

That guy just kept rambling

[distant goblet]

He was always going to serve one term

[azure wyvern]

https://x.com/FutureJurvetson/status/1827393665377169618
Wow 🍔 's new book seems to have quite a few explosive comments on Commercial Crew and Boeing

Steve Jurvetson (@FutureJurvetson) on X

NASA just decided that SpaceX needs to rescue Boeing’s astronauts.

Written before the Starliner debacle, Berger’s forthcoming book Reentry tells the backstory with plenty of foreshadowing, starting with Boeing’s attempt to be the sole crewed spacecraft provider:

“Boeing had a

Twitter · Aug 24, 2024, 5:12 PM

[distant goblet]

Ultimately NASA choose to accept far worse margins on dragon at the time because theres no other option. As justifiable as it is imo you can’t expect boeing to not complain about the double standards. But such is life

[naive veldt]

cant they launch starliner again within next 6 months, uncrewed, to dock with ISS,and return with the two crew members?
Win-win

[distant goblet]

Probably not gonna have another crewed starliner launch

[naive veldt]

i know , i know 6 months is a less time for all analysis

[naive veldt]

i disagree

teleconference OVER.
Result: Suni and Butch get 6 month vacation extension

[static crown]

I have my doubts that NASA is just gonna terminate the whole contract

[distant goblet]

NASA won’t terminate the contract

Boeing will

[naive veldt]

yes there;s no need

[neon bane]

apparently Suni and Butch tried Draon flight suits already, so the suits they tried are being brought up for them for them

[naive veldt]

no, there's possibly cash-rich future for starliner if BO-s space station comes online

[distant goblet]

CLD isnt happening

[naive veldt]

okay guys, Stop guessing

[naive veldt]

did Bob and Doug try Soyuz suits before launching on DM-2, just to be sure they have a safe return option?

[arctic hearth]

Ahhh the memories https://x.com/SciGuySpace/status/1008780466151940098

Eric Berger (@SciGuySpace) on X

This is a jaw-dropping, anti-SpaceX op-ed in the @HoustonChron by a former Boeing employee. Basically says SpaceX will kill people and only JSC can safely send people into space. Not sure where to begin.

https://t.co/x76Zxm4JGH

Twitter · Jun 18, 2018, 6:36 PM

[neon bane]

haha i don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if no one ever thought of this scenario

would've been an embarassing return to human spaceflight for america

[distant goblet]

Probably a study but nothing that was ever realistically an opinion. Return on soyuz is difficult

[fading mauve]

new nasa admin isn’t guaranteed

[naive veldt]

im sure there were some options if dragon had an issue

[arctic hearth]

I'm sure that if even the dems stay in the white house, Bill will probably retire anyways

[fading mauve]

his pr team

[naive veldt]

hi miss ice cubes