Predator changes and bait stations

[pastel idol]

These are personal opinions but I don't think they're too unreasonable to show here and see if there's any agreement

Cougars:
Change to class 4, backfill to Layton (think snow leopard numbers and distribution)
Less vocal

Wolves:
Change to class 4, backfill to Layton

Coyotes:
Desperately need a rework, Change to class 3, backfill to SRP and Askiy Ridge

Foxes:
Change to class 1 (yes, they are that small), backfill reds to Askiy Ridge

Black Bear:
Backfill to Yukon

Grizzly bear:
Backfill to Askiy Ridge and remodel (they don't look that goofy irl)

Brown bear:
Change to class 8 like Grizzlies

Mink and marten need to be added to NEM, Layton Lakes, and Yukon Valley at least.

Badger, with a slight redesign, need to be added to SRP

Bait stations for predators are both simple and used all over. Remember the traps on Vurhonga Savanna and Cuatro Colin's? Yes that but with a hunk of meat rather than a a foothold trap.

[cerulean ore]

Coyotes don’t need to be class 3. A 22 mag or a .22 hornet is plenty powerful on them. Otherwise, I would like to see many of these backfills. Also, cougars don’t need class 4. They are bigger than most class 4s right now, but they are a lot tougher. The class system isn’t directly size dependent. It’s also a toughness scale.

[pastel idol]

I've killed 4 cougars since moving to Wyoming 5 years ago, they are not that tough. 2 were done with a .223, one with a .45 ACP and another with a .30-30. One shot per animal between 50 and 300 yards.

Coyotes need to be class 3 because in a large portion of the Eastern US they've replaced wolves as Apex predators, hunting even moose and black bears in certain locations. They average between 50 and 75 pounds for adult males and they're considerably larger than other class 2 animals are.

Yes, .22 magnum and .22 Hornet work just fine IRL and in game, but they're also much stronger than the game portrays them as, its just that the class system is a mess and hasn't been updated since 2020

[cerulean ore]

The class system is a mess yeah. According to my sources, eastern coyotes average 45-55lbs. That’s definitely on the higher sod of class 2, I think they should stay class 2

[dawn pelican]

Badgers need more than a slight redesign to come to SRP they’re completely different species and look different

[pastel idol]

If that's the high side of class 2 then exactly where does a 6 pound Grey fox fit?

[cerulean ore]

I have been harping on EW to make at least grey and Tibetan foxes class one. In game, they are half the size of a raccoon. IMO they need to make raccoon, grey fox, and Tibetan fox all class one

[pastel idol]

They're very similarly built and use the same basic movements and burrow systems, aside from that the head would be the largest change that actually needs a full remodel in terms of game development

[dawn pelican]

Europeans have smoother fur, smaller claws, aren’t as flat in the body and are not solitary compared to the American badger, European badgers are also larger and heavier with a longer body than their American counterparts. The patterning and texture on an American badger can also make them look like they have partial stripes when viewed from the side like in this photo.

The only thing they could reuse would be the European badgers skeleton and the burrows

Oh yeah also European badgers are omnivorous while American badgers are carnivorous, no idea if the European badgers have feed zones in game though.

[cerulean ore]

They do have feed zones from what I’ve seen. I don’t know their times tho.

[dawn pelican]

Ah nice, have you seen what they use for the feed zone tracks? And if you have are they meat or grass?

[cerulean ore]

No not yet. I’ll know in about 40 hours though!

[pastel idol]

You realize none of this would require an entire rebuild of the skeleton, movements, or need zone animations? This is literally all visual changes that need to be done.

It might not be a small remodel but its also not an entirely new set of animations, rigging and skeleton

[dawn pelican]

I literally said they can reuse the skeleton?

Animations and rigging might need tweaking idk how picky their software is about size changes and different models but I’d expect them to be able to reuse them.

Also the American pine marten should also get its own model if they add em to NEM, LL, and Yukon. And should be at least smaller in weight than the European (American is the fluffier one with the lighter head)

[unborn mauve]

Another Marten species that could be made are Yellow-throated Martens, a species that could easily call Sundarpatan home, plus if they did that the Woolly Hare could be restricted to the top half of the map (They are high altitude animals afterall)

(Forgot the picture) They are bigger then European Pine Martens though

[pastel idol]

My biggest issue with predators is why not have the animals that live in the area on the map, like black bears in Yukon and grizzlies in Askiy Ridge

[dawn pelican]

I suppose species slots is part of it Yukon is an old map and they didn’t know how to fit as many species on maps as they can now (IDK if they can fit more now without removing from other animal populations as they have in the past but that would be nice), as for Askiy my best guess is they either didn’t want to remodel it or they want it to be the single “star” species for Yukon.

Not saying that’s how it should be just my best guess as to the why

[pastel idol]

I don't feel like Yukon Valley has enough species just in general, and removing some moose and goose spawns wouldn't really affect a large part of the way it plays.

People have also been really unhappy with how grizzlies look since Yukon first released too, iirc. With how much it was talked about in the story in Askiy Ridge you'd think it would at least be on the map remodeled or not

[dawn pelican]

Medved also suffers from low species count almost every map before cuatro that isn’t base game does unfortunately. Other than that my only other guess for Askiy is that they didn’t want two bears on the map and of course the stupid G1 species won out

[pastel idol]

Yukon has an area where there's Aspen trees, gold leaves and an open feeling that just seems to beautiful to ignore, but I have literally 0 need zones in the area.

Its such a wasted location that theres not something unique to the area. It needs something like Sitka deer (even if they don't technically belong, its a game, it can be a little fictional fun) or even black bears.

(Honestly, I miss home ranges)

[dawn pelican]

Could also add lynx, wolverine, or coyotes Yukon is missing animals in the 3-4 range badly

[pastel idol]

True, but without snowshoes it feels like they have no reason to be there.

I kinda feel like it needs more species evennif there's slightly less of all species

[dawn pelican]

Yeah snowshoe hare deserves a feature, Dall sheep could be featured in the the steep areas in the north and move the moose from there to the aspen groves

Ideally for Yukon (imo) I’d like the addition of the snowshoe hare, Dall sheep, and either the Lynx, Coyote, or wolverine (if not 2 of em) to bring the species roster up to 11 or 12 so it’s more in line with newer maps.

[covert widget]

Could be why they weren't added to AR to begin with ... They are not satisfied with the current model either ....

[wispy lava]

Stone Marten in European maps.

[wispy lava]

In my opinion, the Class doesn't need to be changed.

[unreal tusk]

I’d say instead of Layton lakes add cougars to Askiy Ridge it just feels wrong not having them on a northern Rocky Mountain map, especially in Alberta and or British Columbia where they are also found… also they could use a remodel too… also I would say make them less like snow, leopards, and more like Bengal tigers where they have a higher population than snow leopards but they’re still Elusive also instead of class 4 I’d argue they should be class 6 They are way too big to be class 4.

[pastel idol]

Im really not so sure about that

Aside from weight, you have to remember that because cougars are an apex predator they aren't exactly built defensively.

They're still light and thin skinned animals with hides no thicker than deer but even their chests and bone density are in line with deer. They're dangerous by virtue of being a predator, not because of how tough they are

[strange abyss]

My opinion red fox doesnt need to be changed to class 1. They are (irl) as big as a euro badger and they to are class 2. In-game im not sure, as red fox seem pretty big ingame

[unborn mauve]

Yeah I understand Red Fox to be one of the bigger fox species

[pastel idol]

Personal experience with red foxes taught me a lot, for example a .223 soft point tears massive holes in the hide. .22LR is plenty out to 75 yards, .17hmr out to 150.

[wispy lava]

I handled a live red fox, and it wasn’t as small as people think.

[unreal tusk]

But if that’s the case, let’s say leopards to get added to the game then if we’re going by size leopard would also be class four or even class three because while they are tough big cat, they are still small smaller than Cougars even…..and Leopards are not as durable as Lions, Tiger and Jaguars…. They are far more aggressive yes but I can’t see a leopard getting any higher than class 3 to 5. Same with Gray wolf too

[pastel idol]

That's the thing, gray wolves aren't tough either. Most of the people who hunt them here in Wyoming use .223s or .243s.

Leopards are not hunted with a .375 because they're tough enough to require it, some countries don't have minimum caliber requirements on them. People are told to use a high caliber because they're extremely dangerous if wounded.

Guides don't want to trail a cat that will jump a whole group and try to shred them all to pieces and they're used to poor shots so they make clients use high caliber rifles to lessen the chances of that.

The other reason people use a .375 or something even bigger is because its a combination hunt for something like cape buffalo or eland. They don't want to deal with the paperwork and weight of two rifles so they take one large enough for the big animal and use it on the smaller ones too

[unreal tusk]

Yeah, that’s the complicated part about leopards. They’re too small to be anything higher than class four or five and from what I heard from one story they’re pretty easy to kill with your bare hands if you’re smart enough and you know what you’re doing there was a story where a 73 year old man not only survived a leopard attack, but also solo and killed the leopard by ripping out its tongue

[pastel idol]

Glass cannons

[paper mulch]

All the backfills would be perfect

[wet scroll]

There are records of red foxes in Europe reaching up to 35lbs and being pretty massive. Spent a lot of time watching and recording red foxes and they can be tiny or they can be huge. Personally I'd like to see a split between American red foxes and European ones. Genetic evidence suggests they are two separate species and they certainly look very different. American reds tend to be smaller with much longer, fluffier coats. The current models are way too fluffy for any of the European reserves

I also collect fox pelts and some of my European reds are as big as a western coyote

[pastel idol]

Uh hey. That coyote hide is from a pup. Probably just shy of a year old given how short the tail and snout are

[dawn pelican]

Looks like it’s missing it’s nose entirely but yeah that tail is short

[pastel idol]

The nose curls really badly if its not stretched properly a s the hide dries, this looks like a 2nd or wire frame skin

[desert gale]

I agree with 95% of @pastel idol post as its fairly accurate. Although I'll give apex predators a bump in class due to danger lvl. 100% Coyotes should be sized up, reworked, & reclassed to C:3. Wolves alone I would justify as a C:4 though with a Pack C:5 to me is fair. Now mtn lions/Puma if EW corrects their behavior, I'd say C:5 easily as they too compete with wolves in terms of preferred prey & can be dangerous when provoked &/or see you as a threat/prey (an yes, they do speaking from experience though it is a rare occurrence). But If EW continues to keep them as they are C:4 would be appropriate. Now Foxes....Grey Fox, Kit Fox, Swift Fox are easily C:1 predators. Red, Tibetan Fox should remain as C:2. Idk much about African Jackels so I'll let those who do comment on them. To quiet the outrage 22LR should be reclassed to (1-2).

[dawn pelican]

Ik I was a taxidermist, but you should be able to see a bit of black even at that angle a curled snout hiding the nose looks more like this

[desert gale]

In my honest opinion though •C:1 (Birds Only) •C:2 (1-25lb) small game •C:3 (25-50lb) Medium-Small Game •C:4 (50-150lb) etc. etc. Ofc this would also apply if calibers were extended to their full authentic use & applications by either reworking Tier 1 & Tier 2 ammo options just like the Hudzik &/or adding a 3rd ammo option to match utility w/ Bows & Shotguns. But as the classes are currently, I stand by my previous reply. But I firmly agree C:1-4 should be revised in general. I made a post awhile back that has a more authentic reclass of every animal as well as another post with authentic caliber Game ranges. Even went as fair as to add bullet weights that are authentically rated for those classes. Its a real shame EW didn't do enough research.

[wet scroll]

It's definitely an adult. The snout is completly missing and the tail is pretty average. I have other coyote pelts and tails and the tail is around the same length on all of them. Red foxes just have much longer tails than yotes so it makes it look small in comparison

[pastel idol]

I wasn't talking about length on the tail, the shape is how to tell the age. Older yotes have a short space between the were the tail connects and where the tail fur really spreads out, usually with thick guard hairs. That joint area looks too long for an older coyote.

Also, what's the length of the hide? From nose to tailbone?

[wet scroll]

Oh I see! The tail does have a lot of damage and lost a lot of hair from insect damage if that makes a difference. Pelt is 37 inchs excluding the tail which is obviously on the small side

[pastel idol]

Oh yeah that's definitely a young animal, in fur sales sub 42" is considered a juvenile and sells for less because the guard hairs aren't fully developed. Proper adults run between like 45 and 60 inches, not including the tail

If you paid more than around 50$ US then maybe consider a different dealer