Grounded birds

[oak jewel]

With the arrival of the .410 single shot, it's time to make all birds ethical harvests regardless of if they're ground pounded or shot in the air. Still prefer to shoot them in the air, but the reality is that sometimes the most ethical clean kill you can make is on a stationary bird. Is it as sporting as shooting them on the wing? Certainly not, but there's really no legitimate reason for it to be unethical, especially in-game. Obviously, shooting them with anything greater than a class 1 weapon should still prevent passing the harvest check.

[woven dragon]

YES!!! The reason i dont hunt birds is because they fly in two seconds and grounded birds a cooler to me.

oh wait you meant …. that still cool but i thought that you meant like flyless birds

[oak jewel]

Haha, you're good. I can't see myself using the .410 on any of the quail maps, but I think the biggest issue revolves around pheasants and ptarmigan.

[arctic siren]

It depends on the species of game bird. Hunting capercaillie and black grouse on the ground or in a tree is ethical, as is hunting black grouse in flight, but not capercaillie.

[oak jewel]

I'm curious, why is it not ethical to shoot Capercaillie in flight? Can't remember ever taking one in flight in-game now that I think of it. The murder chickens tend to just come to murder chicken. 😆

Also, are you referring to in-game or IRL ethical standards?

[arctic siren]

IRL

[oak jewel]

Gotcha, but that has me curious as it's all about shooting birds in the air here in North America, unless we're talking about some grouse species that can be harvested with .22.

[arctic siren]

The same goes for some hunters: it is not ethical to shoot deer or other animal that are lying down.

[oak jewel]

Again - why? That's a comparison (also another foreign one), not an explanation.

I've shot deer laying down, but obviously I wouldn't if I didn't have a direct shot to the vitals. That's the only reasoning I can think of. But one upland bird being unethical to take in the air over a different game bird is confusing without a clear explanation or insight into the thought process.

[arctic siren]

It is an unwritten “rule” among hunters

[oak jewel]

Interesting, but why? I'm not arguing or anything, I just genuinely want to be educated on it. Hunting in various parts of the world is vastly different from what I'm used to.

[spare yew]

"Sporting chance" a bird in flight is harder to kill and gives it a chance to escape.

This doesn't account for the millions of birds who took a shot and didn't immediately die. They live with pain until wither dying of infection, lead poisoning, or something tears them apart in their weakened state

[oak jewel]

That's a big part of my reasoning for wanting "grounded" eliminated from the harvest check.

[lime blade]

It’s harder to hit what you want to hit because not only do you have to go through more flesh to do so but it’s also harder to see what you need to in order to make a shot, or atleast that’s what I was taught.

[oak jewel]

But it's perfectly fine shooting Black Grouse out of the air to these same sportsmen??

[arctic siren]

I think also it is more likely to end up injured than dead if the animal is lying down.

[spare yew]

I don't care for bird hunting. Not in game or IRL though I have done it. I hate leaving wounded animals and of can get a guaranteed kill shot I'll take it.

Either I make a clean kill or it gets away without a scratch that's my ethics for this kinda thing

[oak jewel]

Very understandable. Also why I don't shoot a bedded animal unless I have a clear shot at the vitals as I mentioned above.

[lime blade]

Not my ball to shoot

[oak jewel]

I get it. I live in South Dakota and we have a ton of pheasants. I'm a heart transplant and have a lot of physical issues due to life saving measures. I can hunt deer on my own just fine, but can't keep up with guys walking fields and sloughs for pheasants, so I road hunt. Those birds can be wiley, and a lot of times a ground shot is my only chance at getting a pheasant. Do I prefer to get them in the air? Absolutely. Do I love eating pheasant? More than shooting them out of the air. 😂

[spare yew]

Nobody in my family ever bird hunted, so I was raised with a more or less "1 bullet, 1 animal" mandate. Honestly its why I carry a .22, ruffed grouse and rabbits. Its a bit funny though. I've seen guys go out with a hundred shotgun shells and come back with three birds and they're happy to have gotten them

[oak jewel]

Dove hunting is incredibly humbling, let me tell you. I think I took my new Savage 555E 16 gauge and four boxes of shells out one opening morning, came back with my limit of 15, and had one shell to spare. And that was one of my best days. Lol

I did get one double that morning though, that was pretty cool.

[spare yew]

I've only just realized why they specify steel shot for waterfowl. Its non toxic so all the missed shots won't harm the environment and the wounded birds won't die of lead poisoning

[oak jewel]

Yup. I prefer to use Bismuth if I'm using my 16. Best of both worlds for waterfowl and pheasants regardless of if you're hunting private, public, or road hunting/pass shooting/jump shooting.

I've got a little Savage Stevens 301 .410 turkey gun with red dot sight. Use #9.5 TSS. Dying to get a turkey with it, but the squirrels have learned to fear it. 😆

[spare yew]

I know a guy obsessed with turkey hunting and he only buys goose ammo. I asked him about it and he very enthusiastically explained that its cheaper than turkey ammo, hits just as hard at a little more distance, and he bought a high strength magnet to pull the shot out of the meat. Apparently he cracked a tooth before

[arctic siren]

Here is a capture from a mule deer hunting video, showing that there is almost no margin in the vital area for a shot. The hunter had to wait two hours lying down on the frozen ground with his rifle until the animal got up.
Video Capture Credit: GrittyFilmProductions
Video Link: https://youtu.be/KocoF2hbgUM?si=BFB31033O-2zZ96o

[oak jewel]

That's an interesting idea. It would work so long as the choke isn't full/extra full.

[spare yew]

Huge rack and a heavy body, 2 hours of discomfort don't mean a thing if you put that much meat on the table

[oak jewel]

No, I get it as I've explained above. There are also exceptions, and I've had the steaks in the freezer to prove it. But you still haven't explained to me why one bird is unethical to take in the air, but a relatively similar game bird in the same area isn't.

[oak jewel]

Yep, my buddy and I waited three hours on a nice bedded Muley last year. Finally stood up, my buddy missed at 100 yards, buck bounced about 20, turned broadside, and my buddy dropped him. I took a deer that bounced by at 100 yards as we were admiring him. 😂

[spare yew]

I lived in Tennessee most of my life and got to be friends with a game warden and I asked him about this once. There was an open season for ruffed grouse and I wondered if it was illegal to ground shoot one. He said as long as I didn't take more than my limit then he didn't care

[oak jewel]

I need to check the grouse regulations here. We have Ruffed Grouse in the Black Hills, but they aren't hunted nearly as much as the pheasants and Sharpies.

[arctic siren]

Wild Turkey Hunting in Kansas

[arctic siren]

I saw in a video that someone shot an ocellated turkey in a tree, and it was legal.

[oak jewel]

Yeah, it's illegal here too, which I feel is understandable as that's when they're most exposed and vulnerable. Ocellated turkeys (not to be confused with Florida's Osceola's) are quite a bit different from the 5 main wild turkey species and are almost more jungle fowl. Different type of hunting, different part of the Western Hemisphere, and I don't know enough about them and how they're hunted to formulate an opinion on what is and isn't an ethical way of hunting them.

Now, about the Black Grouse and Capercaillie...

[arctic siren]

I know it. It is just curious information I want share it here.

[spare yew]

Ocellated turkeys are native to Mexico and live in jungle habitats. The reason its legal to shoot them roosted is that its the best opportunity for an ethical kill shot in dense foliage.

Also, I just read the Wyoming regs for grouse and upland birds. Lots of rules about where you hunt but not much for how you hunt. It said absolutely nothing about being in flight

Also wasn't aware sage grouse permits were free,need to start reading the whole thing instead of just the big game sections

[arctic siren]

In Spain, hunting partridges with a live decoy is well known (la caza de perdiz con reclamo), and it is done only during the mating season. The hunter stays inside a hide while hunting partridges on the ground. It is 100% legal.

[arctic siren]

Because shooting a capercaillie is considered a huge honour and a once-in-a-lifetime occasion. Shooting capercaillie in the ground is safe.

[oak jewel]

They closed the season here in SD, and they're practically extirpated from ND from what I hear. It's sad.

[oak jewel]

Now that makes a lot more sense. Cool, thanks for that. 👍

I've done a lot of deer and pronghorn hunting in SD's Sage Grouse territory. Never seen any, at least nothing I can confirm for certain.

[spare yew]

I know they're on my property and I've seen a bunch but never tried shooting any.
Hungarian partridge tho? I've seen hundreds and they're so everywhere here you can step onto my porch with a .22 and bag three or four in about as many minutes. I have a neighbor who raises them and sets them loose

[oak jewel]

We have seasons for them, Chukar, and Bobwhites, but I've never seen any. I think the former two are mostly just birds that have escaped in years past in certain places, but we are on the very northern border of traditional Bobwhite habitat.

[spare yew]

I haven't had bobwhite quail in ages. I grew up an a lot between 4 or 5 hay fields and you could hear them calling all the time. I could walk out with a .410 and come back with a limit, I did ground shoot them tho

[oak jewel]

Supposedly people see and hear them on the southern edges and back roads of the county I grew up in, but I've yet to experience it. They're such neat little birds.

[spare yew]

Whistle, you can mimic their calls and they call back. Works all year round. Stand still for fifteen or twenty minutes after a shot and whistle again, they respond and you can just follow the call for another shot

Great, now I'm thinking about fried quail