Don’t forget the old weapons!

[mild gale]

As someone that has been playing this game literally since launch, it’s great to see how much the game improved. One thing that was somewhat left by the wayside however is the base game and other old weapons. When the game released and up through to around the time the whitetail great one was released, it was obvious that the game was meant to be a balanced arcade shooter. Skip to present time where we have autoloading rifles that are the new meta for the mega sweat grinders and virtually everything else has been forgotten. Right now the 45-70 and .30-30 seem to be hot topics for revival and especially the 30-30 since Alberta is coming with a new one but only time will tell if it gets a performance boost like it should. Simply put I’m asking for the old guns to be revived and reworked to better reflect how they perform irl compared to the current “meta” calibers, notably 7.62x39 and .308 which do feel pretty realistic. As of right now there’s multiple useless cartridges .223 and .22-250 probably being the most useless because of the free 243 and now the 7.62x39 which out performs the 243 30-30 6.5mm and .270, all of which blow it out of the water irl. I’ll have to do some testing to show how bad it is but it is really clear that the old “balanced” guns are in need of being “unbalanced”. Not to mention bullet trajectory and zeroing but that’s enough to make an all new post about.

[red crow]

Literally this. I love the base game .270 and lever guns but they're such a let down when you get them

[stoic shuttle]

I use the .223 and .22-250 without issue. First was rebalanced fairly recently and the second is only a few maps old. Even .22 are potent enough to take down a water buffalo in current game. This honestly sounds like a playstyle no longer being met. As if you are more interested in the game that was than the massively popular game with multitude of influences it became. No matter, the game is about to allow us blasting a soda can sized hole or neat pinhole in beaver with very little consequence. Similarities to real life are not exactly a governing property, wouldn't you say?

[red crow]

Hey. The .223. Which one are you using?

[red crow]

Fallows, as close to 150 as I could and get similar shots. Funny that the new rifle is the only one doing double lung

[stoic shuttle]

Whichever fits the occasion best. As I pointed out to someone in chat today we are hunting terrain as much as the same species across maps, where applicable.

[red crow]

Okay, let me ask this way. Why's it weird for me to want the rifles I bought to work as well as they did before they added a bunch more rifles to buy

[stoic shuttle]

I think you are missing the overlying reasoning. Look outside COTW at how the gaming industry in general is handling this exact situation with ongoing content exceeding the ability of earlier base game and paid DLC. Change to maintain a solid balance that places a rifle or round into a slightly differing place is being well done here I assure you. Nothing is being made pointless. The early game pacing and leveling remain quite solid without DLC rifles. Everything works!

[red crow]

Except that this is a hunting game, not a competitive fps. Every dlc changes how the game plays and how the animals work, you might not see a healthbar but they are being changed. Check the quick kill timers against the reward you get and the XP per weapon. I can guarantee you it's not the same for main game weapons as it is for dlc. Even as a base game the leveling system didn't make sense. Perk points and rewards are fine, but how does it make sense to lock a bottle of scent or a call based on level?

Look at the Whitlock .30-30, you need 1400 xp to unlock it and by that point you have unlocked the hyperion scope and 270 Huntsman. To get the whitlock's only scope requires 2500xp. You literally have to unlock the 7mm Regent and .45-70 before you can even put a scope on it.

The .270 Stradivarious is given to you at level 1 now with zero score and ammo unlocked. The 7mm Empress just costs 36000 with both ammo types unlocked.

And how many people are going to buy the base game with bundles being everywhere and often on sale cheaper than the base game alone? If they bundle parque they get a .44 Revolver and a .338 just by playing the missions and shooting targets. The 338 ammo is unlocked now too because of the bolt action.

Yes. They worked with the base game. But they've changed the base game so much that it doesn't work anymore

[stoic shuttle]

I'll go one round of discussion with OP, if responded to. Otherwise this is me calling it agreeing to disagree on the no doubts long thought over interior framework of this game. 🙂

[devout pawn]

I don't use 243 and 7.62x39 for 2 class. Especially the 7.62x39. This rifle won't give any chance for the second shot. 223 my lovely for fox, raccoon, coyote etc. In my opinion all the problems due to 3 class herbivorous. Before the 7.62x39 we didn't have good rifles for them. The problem could be solved if shift 6.5 and 270 to 3-7 class. But devs don't want. Today we just have a mishmash from rifles. I'm personally back to the old rifles because I want simplicity. But these rifles are the very bad now. They urgently need buff and rework.

[mild gale]

You actually have a pretty fair point there with class 2 animals and I definitely agree that 270 and 6.5 should be class 3 min guns, especially with pronghorn being class 3.

[mild gale]

I have no idea how to respond this man. No where did I say anything about a play style being met or not met, I just mentioned the trends the game went through and where that trend currently is. I never said the 223 and 22-250 didn't work, just that the 243 overpowers them and is the starter gun. I have no clue why you brought up the .22 and waterbuffalo and I don't know which 22 you mean, 22 long rifle or 22 hornet? Sure both will kill anything in game if you shoot it enough but thats not the point. The point of this post is to bring attention to the guns that aren't powered correctly and respectively to the newer ones. In no way should a 7.62x39 and .300 blk outperform a .30-30 .270 or 6.5mm. In no way should a .303 british be on par with a 30-06 and a 308 when they all are typically loaded with the same weight bullet loaded to vastly different velocities.

[stoic shuttle]

Expecting an arcade game to be a simulation is certainly a play style. Simulation leaves zero room for interpretation. Similar to reality in large, which Hunter is, means EW can taper game elements to remain fun and swing the balance of what weapon(s) are bound to be more popular in the current iteration. I will again assert EW made decisions that were thoughtful of their players in a climate that is uncommon to rare. I wish you the best finding clarity with the shortcomings you have identified as critical to enjoyment.

[mild gale]

Ok but which way is the game actually headed? I think most agree it was much more of an arcade style hunting game at launch but now it feels as if it’s meant to be more of a simulation but still has those arcade elements left over and both playstyles can be achieved. Those that still want to grind diamonds and great ones through slaughtering everything can do so much easier now with the amount of autoloaders in game, and those that want a realistic feel can enjoy that too with how animals spook more from fast travel, don’t return for a while after being spooked, and use weapons that feel much more like how they’re supposed to feel, but the old ones still don’t feel right and never really did. When scoring and weapon classes were completely redone in early 2020 I think, everything that came out after that was powered similarly to real life and its classification followed. For everything that existed, its classification was based mostly on what the caliber was commonly used on in real life but its power remained incorrect for the most part. Again, look at how the 270 performs compared to the 308 damage wise, there’s no excuse for it. We can argue about playstyle or we can argue about weapons.

[mild gale]

More proof the old weapons are forgotten and ammo stats mean nothing. Animal for today’s testing, roe deer. 1st .30-30 with hollow point bullets at ~70 meters. Second 7.62x39 with soft point bullets at ~70 meters, last 7.62x39 SP at ~150 meters. Intentionally used the junk ammo to see what happens. The .30-30 is slated to have more pen but the 7.62 appears to beat it, both times. This should not at all happen. One, the stats lie. Two, .30-30 Winchester is significantly more powerful than 7.62x39 in most cases. Only with reduced loads does the .30-30 fall below 7.62x39 power levels. Typically the .30-30 will fire a 150 or 170 grain bullet at around 2390 and 2200 feet per second respectively. 7.62x39 is most commonly found with only a 123 grain bullet at around 2350 feet per second, resulting in less energy with a lighter bullet, all the factors you need for less penetration. Obviously other loads for each exists but generally a .30-30 is significantly more powerful. Here we see the .30-30 achieving less penetration and the 7.62x39 yielded insta kills both times. Cotw used to have balanced weapons but within the last two to three years balancing has been abandoned for a more realistic feel, but the old weapons were forgotten. EW, if you want realism, make the old weapons realistic compared to the new ones.