Feline suggestions and Spook mechanic rework

[rocky sun]

Spook rework
Before getting in detail about feline changes, i want to suggest a change to their spook mechanic, since its the major complaint the community has about them. Currently, predators spook other animals from about 100m, my proposed change is:

• Prey will trot away from predators if they get under 50m of them (or run if the predator enters chasing mode); More than that they will just go into alert mode, stopping when the threat is over ~120m away;
• Lynxes and bobcats can only spook class 6 and below (they have been recorded taking down reindeer and mule deer, for example);
• Pumas cant spook bears and class 9 animals, just make them go alert;

Population rework
Now for the kitties, the other major complaint is how they are everywhere. Since tigers and snow leopards have been well received by the community, i want to propose the other cats getting a similar treatment, reducing their population and giving them large home ranges;

• Reduce puma/mountain lion population to around 16 per map;
• Reduce lynx and bobcat population to around 20 per map;
• Reduce the lion population to ~25 but make them move in prides or coalitions, and give each one of them a home range;
• Remove mountain lion/puma drink zones (if you disagree with this but agree with my other points, please consider just reacting with a ☑️ instead of downvoting);

Backfills

• Add mountain lions to the forests and mountains of Askiy Ridge and the northern forested area of Layton Lake;
• Add bobcats to the lower forests in Layton Lake;

Remodels
Id also like to suggest completely remodeling these species, since their models are long overdue and should be on par with the new cats from Sundarpatan. I will talk about that in a moment.

Puma/Mountain lion
Currently, puma models are lacking in the sense their anatomy is wrong, their face doesnt resemble the real animal and their fur is too plain; I wont go into details cause i still have to cover the other species, but i will suggest some fur type changes and link another post i mostly agree with.

TLDR: a rework should focus on nailing their face, specially markings, their long tail and body proportions. Currently they look too thick, but not where they should be;

Red rework, grey, and a new rare, retained spots;

#1325116200677801987

Example of common variation. As you can see their faces have a lot of details, and their belly is a lighter tone; The body itself isnt just a plain color, it has some gradients and such;

@velvet zephyr first post, i will add pics for the other 3 cats and then talk about more behavior stuff. feel free to add suggestions in the mean time

[neon swallow]

yes we need this especially since tigers and snow leopards are so well made! i think a mountain lion rework is coming with the new map

[sturdy vault]

Also pumas being ambush predators shouldn't be chasing down animals like they already do in game I always see pumas chasing elk or bighorn when I grind bears on srp

[rocky sun]

yeah im going to add a topic on that soon, a suggestion to bring back their killing mechanic

New mating call suggestion

This is called a caterwaul. Females in heat do this to attract males, but males will also do it (although rarely), probably to mark territory.

Not even is it more realistic than the current one, but probably less annoying as its shorter.

[rocky sun]

i hope so, but as they arent in the new map there is a big chance they wont get reworked

Hiss sound effect for a warning call

[lofty mirage]

this is great bump

[cloud helm]

I'm very much in favour of this idea
For lion though, I would suggest a decrease in the population cap to a maximum of 25 and an absolute minimum of 12

[lofty mirage]

Lions could have a bit more population because they have prides in their territories not a single animal

[cloud helm]

No I know but my thinking is that lion as a whole aren't that plentiful. In the Kruger National Park, which has probably the largest population of free roaming lion that are largely unaffected by humans. If we take the size of the park and lion population and compare it relatively to a map the size of Vurhonga we'd have 5 lions on the map
So my thinking is, 2 or 3 prides for the map would be ideal

[lucid flume]

I just made a lion reworking thing if your interested https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1379686864503574668

[vivid saddle]

I god damn wish they did rework some of the older animals. However, I think they'll rework the pheasant and mallard before the animals that need it most...

[austere hamlet]

I agree with all of these changes, although personally I think Lynx and Bobcats should retain drink zones, and the African Lion on Vurhonga as well. I can see why you'd want to remove the drink zones from Mountain Lions/Pumas because they're sort of like Snow Leopards. They're a similarly-sized animal with a similarly elusive nature, and probably would only be seen near water if they're stalking animals that are drinking at the water's edge.

However in a hot climate like Vurhonga, any big cat like a Lion will almost certainly have to drink water pretty often. This would be consistent as well because Tigers (which are similar in size) also have drink zones currently and it doesn't seem like that's going to change at this point.

Bobcat and Lynx should retain drink zones as well because that's really the only effective way to hunt them currently. Because they're so small, it's nearly impossible to spot them in the thick brush already. They're already difficult enough to locate with their drink time, and if their population gets decreased then that will only make it even more difficult. If, on top of all that, their drink time just disappears, then there will be no way to know where to even start looking for them.

[rocky sun]

I think you are right, gonna change that rq

[rocky sun]

My thought was to keep their population high so we could have larger prides, but that was probably too much. Lowered it to 24, we could have 4 prides with up to 6 lions. I forgot about their distribution in the reserve but iirc they arent everywhere, so i think thats a good number to not cluster them too much by having more prides

[austere hamlet]

yeah I think that's the safe choice. Plus, not every feline in the game has to mega-difficult to hunt the same way Snow Leopards are. I think Pumas make sense to be more like the Snow Leopards in terms of behavior, but I think the other species should kind of be their own thing.

[rocky sun]

Would be cool if we had treeing dogs or baits to make hunting each species more unique

[austere hamlet]

that would be awesome, it would be really cool to be able to tree mountain lions because that's one of the most common ways to hunt them irl

[rocky sun]

Youd think thats doable now that they added interactable trees for beavers

[rocky sun]

Optional: Puma dimorphism
Something i think would be really cool to have in game are different models for males and females. Im suggesting this for pumas specifically because they are the most dimorphic feline species in the game after lions, and in real life people always target large, bulky males cause they make for cool trophies.

As you can see, the male is much bulkier and muscular than the female, having a larger head and jowls.

Both these specimens live in Arizona. In places like Patagonia and the Rockies the difference can be even more noticeable.

[cloud helm]

I think that's perfect. What'd be great is if it could be coded that they move around alot within their territory so they aren't too static and predictable and utilize more of the map, so it'd be cool if they made their way to the very edge of the map occasionally

[rocky sun]

i plan on suggesting potential home ranges in this thread if yall wanna help, my idea is to make them move as much as tigers and leopards. Ive recently tracked a tiger that travels a bit more than a kilometer between its zones, which is really cool

[cloud helm]

I'll take a look at the map and work on some need zones for lion

[rocky sun]

Some cool tales about mountain lion encounters during wild west era, i think a cougar covered in blood or something like that could be a really interesting great one

https://www.coloradoculturemagazine.com/chilling-encounters-with-colorado-mountain-lions/

[naive acorn]

Mountains would still probably have to have a drink zones…. But I do think making them more elusive and stealthy and lower population would help.

[rocky sun]

This is the Onza, a cryptid recorded since 1500. The cat had the appearance of a cougar with a very long, thin body and long, thin dog-like legs, it was also more aggressive, with countless reports of them attacking people. There were like 5 hunting reports of it in the last century, including some pictures. Its smaller than a cougar, resembling a cheetah.

Some reports mention it having striped legs, some others say it has spots. While in real life it is just a young, maybe deformed cougar, in game it would be a cool reference for a GO, having longer limbs, darker fur and maybe different patterns.

Another theory about its existence is that its an American cheetah (Miracinonyx sp.) that somehow survived extinction. I will suggest the Miracinonyx as a GO reference in the next post.

[rocky sun]

i mean, snow leopards dont have drink zones and are pretty fun. Also, removing their drink zones would make people less mad about backfilling them onto other maps since it would be less likely for them to spook other animals

[lucid flume]

Yo add on to this post the silver peaks cougar should look different from the parque Fernando cougar because like in real life those cougars have two different appearance or just a different body plan with the Argentinian cougar looking a bit more bulky wit a more grey fur type

[rocky sun]

we'd honestly be lucky to get one remodel let alone 2, but i agree 100%

[lofty mirage]

fun fact, onza is what some spanish speakers call Jaguarundi, and some people even call ocelots onza

[rocky sun]

Iirc its also a name for jaguars in some countries in south america

[velvet zephyr]

hell yes

[rocky sun]

Lion
Not only is the model itself lacking, but we now know the devs have the tech to do a proper mane, with actual fur rather than hairs that look like quills. I propose different manes for different levels, the smaller manes representing younger males for example, as seen in the picture bellow.

Id also like to point out that the lions look a bit too big in the game, specially when you put them next to tigers. Here is a comparison i saw on reddit.

#1379686864503574668
#1159996914448732231

[sturdy kiln]

#1159996914448732231

[sturdy kiln]

Let me forward my fact sheet on Miracinonyx in here! Its my favorite ice age cat!

[rocky sun]

ty, i was about to ask for permission to link that here

[rocky sun]

Bobcat
Although its anatomy is probably the best out of the older cats, the bobcat has some problems on its model, specially its face. Perhaps the addition of more fur and some tweaks around its eyes would help. I will attach an irl picture on that.

Also, bobcats show some really noticeable fur variations throughout their ranges, be it fur length, color and patterns. In game, they could have multiple combinations of pattern (darker or lighter spots) and colors; To make both subspecies stand out more, the mexican bobcat should have shorter, more spiky fur;

Another change id like to see is reducing their weight. Currently, bobcats go up to 35kg in game, while the verified record in real life is 23kg, and the average weight for males is around 9-14kg;

Maybe, lower their class to 2

Potential bobcat and ocelot hybrid, a "common" pattern in parts of Texas

[sturdy kiln]

Very common. Heres a real world trophy Texas bobcat with very thick rosettes. Spoilered content for dead animal.
||https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/printthread/Board/3/main/608305/type/thread||

[lucid flume]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1379686864503574668 I recently made a lion remodel if you want to check it out

[rocky sun]

i will link it to this post

bobcat caterwauls as a new mating call

https://youtu.be/teGRXwHC5DQ
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CTle8JmUghw

[naive acorn]

Ok let’s talk about Potential Great Ones for All Cats like Tigers, Lions, “Cougars”, Lynxes, Bobcats!….Leaving out Snow Leopards because Of how hard and Rare they are

[rocky sun]

i started some suggestions about a puma GO, not sure what else to add outside of different patterns like foxes and bears

[sturdy kiln]

Could really fatten the dude up and give him big ole tomcat jowls. Ive got an individual in mind to reference for a great one. I based my wolf off 21M of Yellowstone

[rocky sun]

Make it look like Dark from Torres del Paine

[sturdy kiln]

Love that guy as well. Caranza was my first thought

[rocky sun]

Could also take one ear off and give other scars like Waya

tbh i think a scarred GO would make more sense on a lion, perhaps for pumas something related to their distribution and legends would be cooler

[naive acorn]

Maybe a longer tail or some spots or some large fangs?!

Maybe some unique markings

[rocky sun]

Eurasian lynx
It shares the same issues as bobcat, but its model is even worse considering how diverse its coat can be.

Other than different colors, they can have different patterns, darker or lighter spots, fluffy fur depending on season, so on.

#1323703520851136624

[naive acorn]

Definitely larger size for a GO Cougar maybe around 279-400lbs (126-181kg)

[rocky sun]

thats too much imo, using the unverified 125kg one is already fine

[naive acorn]

And considering how ridiculously big great ones can be, I could imagine it being possible

[wicked nest]

For GOs of the big cats I was thinking about hybrids sort of

Not for all but a few

That or scarred is good

[naive acorn]

Ok maybe 300lb for the highest

[sturdy kiln]

Pumas have hybridized with ocelots before!

[rocky sun]

beat me to it lol

[naive acorn]

For a great one Bengal tiger ngl I can definitely see them being liger sized… so definitely within the thousands pound range

[sturdy kiln]

Theres also the fabled pumapard but we only have one or two instances of that. Aand theyre prone to dwarfism

[naive acorn]

Also, fun fact, cougars are the only purring cats that are able to breed with pantherine cats Cough Pumapard Cough

[sturdy kiln]

I knew that, im just as much a puma enthusiast as you two lol i love them theyre my fave animals ever

[rocky sun]

is that so? make 15 alt accounts and upvote this post.

[sturdy kiln]

Only got two. Does that suffice?

[rocky sun]

poser

apparently we have people in reddit fighting by our side

[rocky sun]

faded patterns on mela bobcats and lynxes would be cool

Maybe some speculative ones like pseudo melanism or erythrism.

There is also this piebald(?) canada lynx they can take inspiration from

[rocky sun]

"dilute" lynx

lighter, more vibrant blue bobcat variation perhaps

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[lucid flume]

I think if leopards were added to the game leopard vitiligo fur pattern would be a great addition

[naive acorn]

Yeah, no cheetahs and leopards need to get added to the Game

[velvet zephyr]

Up

[rocky sun]

Reduced puma population to around 16 per map, thoughts?

[velvet zephyr]

A little scarce perhaps but im no expert

[rocky sun]

tried to keep them as rare as tigers, with the exception that they wont hunt you. tbh, they could even be as rare as snow leopards depending on the reserve imo

[naive acorn]

Truth! I still would prefer if cougars did have Drink Zones do I have an interesting idea if they have homes like tigers then maybe one Cougar could probably have multiple Drink zones meaning you might find one drink sound, but that doesn’t mean the cougar is going to be drinking at that specific zone at that time It might be at another one, keeping up with that new elusive nature

[rocky sun]

its better to keep the current systems, no other animal has multiple drinkzones like in WOTH

[cloud helm]

I personally like this idea of them potentially being at one of several different zones if they keep their drink times

[rocky sun]

eurasian lynx mating call

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_0U-5KcHpJg

[naive acorn]

https://youtu.be/RpMfayCOOxY?si=50ZLcp5NMq-NMTOj

[rocky sun]

Id also like to ask for wall mounts for the reworked cats, which could be expanded to other species in the future

Also, skull mounts for the small plaques

[rocky sun]

On another note, can cats please have their claws sheathed unless they are attacking?

[velvet zephyr]

they need to chill for real

[rocky sun]

Another rather nitpicky change id like to see is making sure cats have their mouths closed instead of looking derpy all the time like this

[rocky sun]

Cool bobcat multimounts with in game species

[rocky sun]

Cougar mounts

[steep dune]

I low-key want to see taxidermy of ALL creatures in a single collection/gallery. Hope someone makes it

[rocky sun]

Cougars covered in snow we couldve gotten in Alberta 😭

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[rocky sun]

A bobcat just to bump this up

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[rocky sun]

Alberta cougar record, 218lbs (99kg)

Another 200lbs+ cat killed in Alberta

[manic vapor]

What was in that kibble?!

[rocky sun]

creatine

[rocky sun]

How would you guys want lion aggression to be? Stalking like tigers or something new?

[manic vapor]

Mountain Lion

Mobile with a capital “M.”

Observant - Illusive - Transient - Beautiful - Dexterous - Brisk Encounter

Territory: ~200 miles, with a relaxed 20 mile daily pace.

And not least of all an absolute nightmare if in close proximity when injured, cornered, treed, or threatened/encroached upon.

Tiger behavior is ingenious, not exactly a terrible position to start tinkering from.

[rocky sun]

Would be cool if they kept the defensive charges they currently have, but make it almost guaranteed they will charge if you spook or shoot them from under around 100m

If they are in a pride, only the biggest lion will charge you, with the others following it by trotting or running, running away if you shoot the one who charged

Thoughts?

[austere hamlet]

do prides of lions actually do that in real life though? I mean that behavior sounds pretty cool, I'm just not sure how realistic it would be.

[rocky sun]

Well usually people hunt lions when they are alone, ive never looked into what happens if they are in a pride

The one shot charges most of the times tho

[manic vapor]

Dead men tell no tales. dun-Dun-DUN! 😆

[austere hamlet]

well fair enough. I guess it doesn't really matter that much whether it's realistic because we have plenty of other unrealistic animal behaviors in the game. I was just wondering if there was any evidence of attacks happening like that in real life.

[rocky sun]

I mean, with predatory attacks it takes one lion to start it, while the others might follow and then learn such behavior

With the Tsavo lions for example, only one of them had a tooth infection, but the other one learned to attack humans with it (assuming that such injury was the main reason for the attacks, which is the most accepted theory as of now)

[manic vapor]

Even grumpy lions can do some good, sometimes even taking care of dead weight.

😂

[rocky sun]

😂

Also can we please fix these with remodels 😭

[steep dune]

I'd like whatever he's getting 😉😏

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[lofty mirage]

To be fair we do have the bobcat vs Coyote

[rocky sun]

Oh yeah true, we just need to be able to use a NEM bobcat for that

[near sluice]

And maybe a very small amount of bobcats around 4-9 on askiy

[rocky sun]

When i get to play the map, i will make a post about places where mountain lions and bobcats could be, mainly avoiding wolves cause 2-3 species spooking prey in the same area would be too much

[near sluice]

Bobcats should be very rare as alberta is very north for them

[rocky sun]

Does anyone know how the "chasing" behavior works and at what times it happens? I will try to get footage so i can properly suggest a rework

[rocky sun]

Lynx ignoring a double lung shot

(And a suggestion: cats dont eat like that, they should crouch to eat)

[rocky sun]

Feline suggestions and Spook mechanic rework

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[rocky sun]

ty for 60 upvotes

[near sluice]

np

[austere hamlet]

I think these reworks would really help to improve the reputation of the feline species in this game. Currently everyone seems to just think of them as "that annoying animal that spooks all of the interesting animals you want to hunt". Which is fair, but if they got some love and attention, I think many people would have a more favorable opinion of them.

[rocky sun]

They forgot to add the Albertan Apex 🥲

[naive acorn]

What is that cougar? Grizzly bear?

[rocky sun]

Both 🙏 im currently going through the left side of the map to create a homerange map for cougars, trying to have their drink zones not overlap with other animals

[rocky sun]

Optimal cougar habitat 🥹

[austere hamlet]

the southwest of the map is perfect for mountain lions

[rocky sun]

i havent been there yet, isnt that part mainly open grasslands?

[austere hamlet]

no the southeast is the part with the grasslands. The southwestern region of the map is the one that has Fiddler's Bow, and it has more mountains and forests.

[rocky sun]

oh, nice. i will check that out. The northern forests are also a good place for them

[rocky sun]

Improved feed zone track

This is called a cache. When cats kill something too big to eat in one go, they cover their prey with debris, saving it for later. In this image, we can see a mule deer cached by a cougar, in Wyoming. Not only does this look more realistic than a bunch of meat chunks scattered everywhere (cats dont do that, dogs might), it looks way cooler.

For each cat species, there could be one cached model for one of the herbivores theyd take as prey in that reserve. I believe there are some models like that used for missions in some maps;

[rocky sun]

Suggestion: remove the chasing mechanic:

For those who dont know, chasing is a mechanic that large cats and wolves have where, during their feed time, they chase other animals for hundreds of meters. Even though it looks cool, this mechanic is very buggy in itself, but also creates other bugs (i.e wolf flee bug, pumas constantly calling). Not only that, but it also maximizes spooking prey, as they will run around multiple zones before they stop.

Until a proper rework is done, this mechanic should be removed from the game. Instead, keep feed zones the same as they are for other species, while trying to make sure the animals actually eat meat and not grass.

Thoughts?

[austere hamlet]

I agree, I think the predators should eat from actual carcasses in their feed zones. A single large animal carcass could feed many animals for several days. The stalking/chasing behavior is something that really needs a lot of work if they're going to get it right, so I would support removing it for the time being until they have it set up better.

[rocky sun]

Would a new zone that could potentially make finding multiple snow leopards and other cats easier be a good idea? I wanna suggest community scrapes

[rocky sun]

Bump

[austere hamlet]

[rocky sun]

Alberta male

Im cooking up a new post just for cougars

[rocky sun]

Caterwauling bobcat

[velvet zephyr]

bump

[near sluice]

Bum0

[velvet zephyr]

Bump

[naive acorn]

Bump! Yeah, I’ve got an idea. I’ve got a post for a GO Cougar/Puma/Mountain Lion?!

[naive acorn]

Question got any ideas for a GO Cougar/Puma/Mountain Lion?!

[languid walrus]

PF has 200 pumas. Irl they would eat all herbivorous in that place. It's good for arcade game but stupid for hunt simulator. Fun but.....Newbies see a hunt simulator, olds begin to see an arcade... and want to rework animals, behawour etc.

[naive acorn]

Again…. There should not be 100-200 Cougars on any reserve…. The only time that would even be acceptable as if the reserve is extremely massive like about the size of more than half of if not all the reserves in the game combined and even then that was still be asking for too much… the perfect amount should be between 6 at The very Minimum to 45 at the Very Maximum… yeah less than 50…. What a better pic would be between 10 and 30-35 Cougars for each reserve!

[rocky sun]

Adding on to the bait update, cats could be hunted by hanging a dead animal somewhere like on a tree

im thinking about making another post about cats but this time i will be more specific, perhaps targeting one species at a time so the devs know every upvote wants the exact same thing