Petition for the .30-30 to be class 3-7 rated

[tender ibex]

It might be already, we have no idea as of
yet.

Just in case, I'm petitioning the Developers to class the .30-30 Loperrier Outrider or it's new ammunition as classes 3-7. I regularly use this caliber for hunting black bear and elk irl and I know many of the people in this server are familiar with this caliber and hope that it will perform better in this new iteration. Thank you for your time

[polar hull]

If it was reclassed, it would directly compete with the moradi and would... lose.

[gleaming zealot]

only if the beavers are gonna be class 3, i really wanna shoot these things with the new lever action 😂

[tender ibex]

Only because the moradi is broken AF because of the pistol penetration

[tender ibex]

It'd cover them either way so 3-7 would just make it better

[gleaming zealot]

wouldnt be 2-7 an option?

[tender ibex]

Only if I didn't know a .30-30 would tear a raccoon in half

[gleaming zealot]

ohhh thast a good point. i dont have any idea how a 30.-30. does irl

[polar hull]

You are right, but without changes to the moradi's penetration a reclassed (3-x) .30-30 would straight go to the locker for me - unless it gets zeroing ranges like the bolt action rifles.

[tender ibex]

I'd still choose it because it's modeled off the irl rifle I've used most of my life. That and I'm not a huge fan of the iron sights.

[tender ibex]

I've killed like a dozen black bears since I was 15 or so with one and never needed more than one round, on the other hand I shot a possum once and very nearly cut it in half so yeah

[gleaming zealot]

okay is see the reason for the reclass now 😂

[tender ibex]

The common load for .243 ammo is an 80 grain bullet so I'm fine with it as a 2-6.

The common load in a .30-30 is a 150 grain bullet, same as a .308 or .30-06.

[polar hull]

At how much speed? I guess the .30-30 has less space in the cartridge for powder

[tender ibex]

18-1900 fps. Ballistics wise the .30-30 and .243 are pretty close, but the extra size/weight in the bullets make the .30-30 have a little more effect. Plus most .243 bullets are designed to kill smaller game like coyotes and small deer, the .30-30 is usually meant for larger animals all around

[swift gust]

I hope not.

[ivory frost]

There are a good bit of 150 grain 30-30 loads going around 2200-2300 fps and making roughly 1900 to 2000 ft lbs of energy, similar to a 243 but with a heavier bullet. With the 7.62x39 being class 2-6 theres zero reason for the .30-30 to be equal in class and somehow less powerful. Most of the time a 7.62x39 is using a 123 grain bullet at give or take 2300 fps and a 150ish grain bullet at roughly 2050 fps so you can see the 30-30 does make a little more horse power.

[tender ibex]

I love seeing someone compare the 7.62x39 and. 30-30. Instantly shows they didn't do any research if they say "it's basically the same"

[polar hull]

Fps... As european i have to calculate the m/s for me. 😅 I'll never get used to the imperial systwm 🤣

[swift gust]

RIP

[ivory frost]

I think some people go and get the 125 grain .30-30 and compare it to 123ish grain 7.62 and call them equal and thats because most of the 125 grain .30-30 loads are reduced to around 1800 fps. In reality you should be able to load one to 2500 fps.

For anyone who wants a comparison here is from your left to right 7.62x39, .223 Remington, .30-30 Winchester and 243 Winchester.

[polar hull]

RIP? Why should i rest in peace? 🤣 We europeans calculate in m/s, gramms, grain and Joule 😅

[tender ibex]

The so called reduced recoil loads? Ffs the .30-30 has 7 pounds of felt recoil, how much of a pu**y do you have to be to want to download it

[ivory frost]

I have no idea, I’ve literally heard people say it kicks worse than .270. Maybe people who think they’re 6 year old is capable of deer hunting buy that stuff, or people who put muzzle brakes on their 11 pound 6.5 creedmore and take it elk hunting.

[tender ibex]

Worse than a .270? Who do you hunt with? Victorian children?

Anyway, I pulled ballistics tables for the two loads I see at the gas station in town

Energy wise, not far apart but this doesn't account for the bullets either

[polar hull]

The .30-30 has 25% less space for powder than a .308 given that both use approx. the same projectile mass (approx 150 grain)

And it has a worse ballistic coefficient... so the comparision to the .308 as 4-8 rifle does not match completely

[swift gust]

It wasn’t that serious.

[polar hull]

You buy ammo in gas stations? Sounds pretty much USA. 🤣

[winged compass]

I'm on board for the 3-7 reclass. However I'm not apposed to the 30-30 having the original 2-6 ammo & 3-7 with the new ammo options. It would make the 30-30 (2-6/3-7) the 2nd caliber to have 2 class ammo options next to the Hudzik. I urge you EW please do this to all rifle & Pistol calibers 🤝.

Theres no reason why calibers should have 2 ammo options in the same class.

[polar hull]

Please not again that request. Requesting it everywhere doesn't make the idea better.

[winged compass]

I'm going to keep pushing it. Theres no reason for 2 same class ammo options. Ntm new gen titles are providing various ammo options for various game applications as it should be.

[worthy hull]

it has become exceptionally redundant

[winged compass]

The factor that should separate the calibers should be ftlb/joule energy, bullet weight/types. Real easy fix to add Grain/Gram weight & various bullet options for various game all with different stats. I'm sorry but the 45-70 is the biggest offender tha EW puts the weapon performance over ammo. The rifle pistol shouldn't outperform the rifle using the same ammo! Not to mention several calibers are class locked preventing you from ethical harvests. 30-30 is 1 big example at 2-6 when its an Elk & Black Bear killer & come on I cant use 270 on Roe Deer?!........So yes this is severely needed.

[worthy hull]

Uh...

There's competitions for revolvers specifically that do this

mainly longer barreled magnums, often times with low power scopes

[winged compass]

I'm sorry to disagree but EW needs to get with the times with the modern genre titles. And it does bug the snot out of me shotguns & bows have 3 ammo options to hunt various game while the Hudzik is the Only rifle with 2 options which I'll remind folks is pointless when Polymer-tips outperform Soft points. I'll further argue having tier 1 & tier 2 ammo made sense as part of the level unlocks as a game mechanic. This mechanic became void when dlc's give you both tiers without earning them while also rendering base game content useless to earn. This broke the GAME Mechanic.

[worthy hull]

Well congratulations on moving the goalpost since you originally said nobody would ever shoot that far with a pistol IRL. The sport target pistols are usually identical to hunting-ready pistols, mainly higher velocity automatic cartridges like 10mm and magnums like .357 and .44., calibers plenty large for something like a roe deer.

My point still stands especially since people have used specialty single shot long range pistols to hunt pronghorn and deer out past 200 yards in the United States. Revolvers and automatics can frequently be used out to 150 yards on large game as well. always to great success. They have a knack for dropping them where they stand.

[winged compass]

WotH & UH have various caliber ammo options and as CotW evolves they should apply it along with the weapon builder.

[winged compass]

its not that serious of a debate he already made his point in my ammo expansion thread that he sees switching between ammo as a pain. & used a G1 example oh crap I used the wrong ammo was his point. To me thats player error not game breaking.

[polar hull]

It is a 7 year old game. Cotw can go with the trends, but i guess it would not. Dev time is limited. Esp. when the teams get smaller as the games ages. Focus is only on atuff to be sold: Maps and weapon packs

[winged compass]

However I will 100% agree with @polar hull that the reload animations should consider emptying a box or tube mag accurately. Its easy with a detachable mag but it doesn't make sense to eject 1 round & stuffit with new ammo.

[polar hull]

This would be needed. Otherwise all the ammochanges would become immersionbreakers

[worthy hull]

I never said I could do it, just that there are active hunters who are fully capable of making those shots with handguns. Most people I've known also dont shoot much further than 200 for risk of wind pulling the shot wide.

As far as not being able to keep every bullet in the 9 and 10 ring on the ISSF 25, that's a timed rapid fire event with .22LR automatics and is an extremely poor analogue for hunting with a handgun. With a handgun in a hunting scenario you're shooting once, maybe twice, from a prepared or semi-prepared position from a rest, not dumping 5 rounds on an 8 second timer freehand from a standing position.

[winged compass]

True but from how it appears EW is shooting for longevity (long haul) over a new title so I'm expecting changes/features overtime. Again I 100% agree they need to change there approach on unloading none detachable mag weapons in terms of immersion, however as you stated its a game but its not game breaking.

Another point adding more ammo is no different than switching between the 3 arrow or shell (C:1-8/9) options or SP/PT - HP/HC existing options.

[worthy hull]

The point still stands given that, to my understanding, ISSF handgun competitions are done freehand and therefore much more prone to weapon sway and misalignment causing inaccuracy..

Even then, dipping into the 8 ring on an ISSF target is still a roughly 4.5 inch group while shooting standing and freehand. The vital organ area that is accessible as an aim point on a whitetail for example is about 8.5 inches in diameter on an adult deer. The way those guys are shooting is well within margins for up close, and Im willing to bet theyd have the same group or smaller out to 150 yards with a scoped revolver when shooting from a rest.

As far as the average joe not having those skills, that's absolutely true, but freehand shooting skills are not necessary for handgun hunting due to the use of prepared rests and shooting sticks for stabilization in more reliable crouching, seated, or prone positions; so, that allows them to shoot accurately despite a lack of freehand skill.

[polar hull]

Exactly, but cotw shows long range pistol shooting freehand and standing... that was my point. THIS is not realistic, due to being a game... 😅

[worthy hull]

EW give pistol shooting sticks for hilarious 200 yard revolver shots pls

Jokes aside though yeah i get what you're saying, but I suppose at least it's not out of the realm of possibility.

Maybe the player character is imbued with the powers of prime Jerry Miculek

[winged compass]

🤣 your good @polar hull I do see your point and acknowledge your reasoning just as you see my point. But we both agree on the weapon animations & I'm curious to see if they made changes to the 30-30. But overall I do agree 3-7 is appropriate at the very least. But Icant ignore Huxleys point if the new ammo is 3-7 can the ammo be used in both rifles. If so its a step in the right direction.

[polar hull]

Stuff the rifle with new ammo until it jams 🤣 a unload animation would be desparetly needed

[worthy hull]

As someone who owns a .30-30 I can attest having gone target shooting with it that if they kind of power hit a raccoon or a fox itd chop the thing in half. It should be 3-7 or 3-8 given that it's still popular for elk, black bear, and moose in the US and Canada.

[winged compass]

It is funny we have a pocket dimension

[polar hull]

Also the reload animation ia currently wrong. If you have 3 rounds in an internal 4 rounds mag, and you want to reload one round, it extracts one round (upon opening) and the animation reloads one round... therefore you still have 3 rounds in the mag 🤣

[real patrol]

Well beavers are gonna be no bigger than class 2, and I think they're making this gun for beaver hunting, so minimum it's gonna go class 2, but imagine if they did class 2-7

[swift gust]

There’s a very small chance that they make them class 3.

[winged compass]

My issue is bobcat, fox, & coyotes are C:2 is my fit there thats why. I use .30cals religiously irl on these 3 with no issues. I also love the 30-30 in-game but......yea underpowered on the higher classes and optic limitations. With the new model new ammo (3-7) with optic options. So for me if I have the new 30-30 with 2-6/3-7 ammo options I'm set.

[real patrol]

Aren't they like raccoon size?

[swift gust]

Quite a bit bigger.

The largest was 120lbs

[winged compass]

Beavers?.........oh no they can get up to 100lbs

[gleaming zealot]

double the size
atleats in terms of weight

[real patrol]

Hmm, in that case they can be class 2 or 3

[polar hull]

Beavers? I won't be able to shoot them. Too cute... same for bears 🤣

[real patrol]

I'm not gonna shoot them, just put my tents on top of their rest zones

[winged compass]

Beaver should be C:3 along with Coyotes Eurasian Lynx & hopefully Wolverines though those could pass as C:4 but Badgers is C:3.

[real patrol]

I can't imagine Wolverine in the same class as Snow Leopard, class 3 would be good

[winged compass]

How do you figure ever seen a wolverine take on a pack of wolves? If not look it up its just like a honey badger taking on lions

[real patrol]

Hmmm, okay that's convincing

[tender ibex]

Considering the sheer size of adult beavers, class 3 doesn't seem like a stretch.

[winged compass]

I was thinking EW would have them as C:3 although I think anything from 50-150lbs should be C:4

[tender ibex]

I think for wolverines class 2 or 3 would work, although I kinda lean toward three altho I have my own thoughts on foxes. I think foxes should be class 1 for all the species because I know first hand how delicate they're built. Muntjac, musk deer, porcupines and any duikers that get added should be class 2 but wolverines, coyotes, jackals of any sort should be class 3

[winged compass]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1273124990723555491 I updated it if you want to check it out but this is what changes I feel make the most sense. I'd Class Wolverines a 3 however due to danger lvl if EW added aggression would be a 4 considering their able to fend off wolf packs up to 5-6 though more than that its tough to say the outcome 😅 With that said wolves to me fall in C:4 but with a pack & Danger lvl C:5 not C:6.

[tender ibex]

I'm not trying to be biased but I've hunted/trapped predators for 15 years at this point and the largest fox I ever got was still 18 pounds or about 9 kilos and I took it at 80 something yards with a .22LR. The biggest coyote I took east of the Mississippi River was 60 ish pounds and took a .243 round.

West coyotes have been altogether bigger and the largest was 80 pounds. I used a .223.

I can tell you that they're built differently under the hide as well. All of a foxes large muscle groups are in the hips and shoulders, the layer of tissue over the ribs is only about 2 or 3 mm thick and tears like paper.

Coyotes, again, are considerably tougher. You can kill a trapped yote with a .22LR to the lungs but it's a slow death. A .223 or .243 it far more humane and effective and even with shots past 200yds it'll be a humane harvest.

[mint spade]

I don't use Moradi because this rifle is a joke. Lung shot through the ass is funny but it's not hunt. I want powerful 30-30.

[tender ibex]

.30-30 as a class 3-7 weapon is not a strange ask if the .44 Moradi is covering class 3-8, it's not a decent comparison at all because the pistol calibers are all completely broken and overpowered so much because the Developers wanted a reason for people to use them.

[winged compass]

Pretty much on point & bare minimum 3-7 is plenty fair....bias or not I still think 3-8 would be better esp with Green tip & Hard Cast ammo. Like you said earlier it would be awesome if both 30-30's can use both ammo options.

[swift gust]

That’s true but I don’t know anyone who’s using .223 or .243 on a beaver. Save those for deer season! Most just use .22lr.

[tender ibex]

Plus safety factor, you miss with a .22 there's a good chance it'll just sink, but a .223 or .243 are going so fast they might just skip and go who knows where

[winged compass]

If in-fact thats the case we're looking at 30-30 having 2-7/2-8 between the base game & new ammo which would be sweet given the current classes. Ideally I'd prefer bobcat & coyotes C:3 to further justify the 30-30 being a solid 3-7. Note theirs quit a few that should be C:3 that are C:2 😮‍💨 But we already went down that rabbit hole 😅

[tender ibex]

Growing up, .30-30 was the deer gun and nothing else, if I used it on bear nobody cared but coyotes or something small and I'd get lectured about "wasting good ammo" or "da*n it boy, that bullet should have put a hundred pounds of meat in the freezer "

[winged compass]

But I'm with ya Huxley the 30-30 should get the respect it deserves esp. with the new beauty we're getting.

[tender ibex]

Don't know if it was posted in here or not but have a look at this ammo and the cartridge laying on the strap in the sled.

It really looks like we're getting e-tip adjacent ammo

[winged compass]

See I was opposite I hunted everything with a 30-30 from Bobs-Elk when I started, till I got a .308. Now I use it for everything & daddy has been itching for something new outside of the .30cal family & 45-70 puts a grin on my face although that 270 & 44 Jackel you shared piqued my interest

[tender ibex]

The clearest one is on the left side of the rifle laying on the strap

[tender ibex]

Here in Wyoming the .30-30 has been proving the perfect wolf gun too. All the right qualities and more than enough power for everything I've run into out here with the possible exception of grizzlies and bison

There's also a familiar looking cartridge on the far right side of the picture too

[winged compass]

yea Black Bear was my limit with it Grizzly I have yet to get the opportunity but 45-70 or 300win would likely be my choice for that hunt. I'll admit I'm not that ballsy like Ted to hunt them with a bow 😅

[tender ibex]

I know that putting up a thread to have a rifle changed that's not even in game yet is kinda stupid, but this one is particularly close for me since it's based on the same model of rifle I've grown up with

[winged compass]

No its not stupid in the slightest if we dont place a voice then nothing will change thats how I see it. And 30-30 is long overdue for an update. 👍

[tender ibex]

My rifle as it's set up for now, I've had it refinished, upgraded the internals, and put a 1-4 scope on it. It's printing 1/2" groups at 200yds

I've had a medium loop lever on backorder for like 3 months now so the wrapping is temporary

[winged compass]

I'm pretty confident it'll be a 3-7 between the Beaver & Elk. I'm hoping it has Grizzly as well but if its Black Bear we're covered minus Bison unless.....its a 3-8🤔 EW is usually pretty good at flexing reserve weapons to fit the Game in it. Except SP that was a disappointment with a 10ga over a 28ga or 410ga.

[tender ibex]

Not even joking, the first thing I'm gonna do is get the rifle and go to Mississippi Acres on the western half of the map and bear hunt like I would back home

[winged compass]

I dont blame you there. If Alberta's game list is solid it'll replace Medved as my No.1 reserve although NEM is amazing as well.

[worthy hull]

first thing ima do is hunt pronghorn with it like I want to IRL

either on Askiy if theyre on there or on SRP

[tender ibex]

Acres isn't my favorite but the hill country part reminds me of where I grew up. For a favorite munes is Emerald Coast hands down

[tender ibex]

I'd love to have pronghorn at class 4 again, cause I keep forgetting they're class 3 and messing up trophies!

[worthy hull]

it's so stupid they're class 3

[tender ibex]

Agreed, but yeah, .30-30 works on them irl surprisingly well. I used some 150gr loads I had and the buck only went 10yds or so.

[worthy hull]

considering im planning a pronghorn hunt for next year this is highly encouraging

now time to go make some poor financial decisions and spend like 80 dollars on Federal Hammerdowns

25" of penetration in ballistics gel at 100 yards go brr

[winged compass]

If the Game list is what I hope it'll be it'll be a Canadian Wyoming for me but it purely depends on if we get wolverines/badgers & a Canadian Lynx. Ofc I'm expecting Red Fox and probably coyotes. I made a comparison with my Alberta guess list & my wyoming list & their fairly close but I have more upland birds & Cranes😆

[tender ibex]

Brother, pronghorn are just 17" side to side. . .

[worthy hull]

no kill like overkill 🗿

I'm also planning on zeroing it for 200 and practicing with it a lot over the next year until I can regularly hit targets at 300

[tender ibex]

Do your thing I guess lol. I haven't tried hammerdowns, I'm interested tho. I might also look into those Nosler E-tips too.

I kinda figured out what my rifle likes to eat and use handloads more often than not tho

[worthy hull]

I also want to eventually use it for mule deer so I figure I may as well have ammunition that can also passthrough said deer.

Hammerdowns seem to perform quite well, and from what I gather they feed especially well in Henry rifles like mine.

if zeroed for 200 yards theyre 3" high at 100 and 14" low at 300 assuming a 20 inch barrel

[tender ibex]

As long as they run in rifle and you can get them zeroed it shouldn't be too hard tonget used to the drop. I don't know if I could explain to someone else but I can hit pretty consistently at 300 as is.

BTW, you should expect more penetration than the gel shows. Gel doesn't account for empty space around organs

[worthy hull]

and the fact that soft tissue is usually less dense since it takes total average density of tissue including bone and fatia, which are both denser than muscle, skin, and fat

[tender ibex]

Ballistics gel might be a good option tho. To show how much penetration a .30-30 has properly

[tender ibex]

Bump

[tender ibex]

Bump

[mint spade]

Bump

[tender ibex]

If it can be done with an oversized pellet rifle then a .30-30 is more than enough

[mint spade]

Bump

[tender ibex]

.30-30 is more than enough for elk if you aren't pretending to be a sniper too

[hollow ridge]

I really wonder how it'd perform on animals like Kudu in the bush.
Seeming that it can take elk I'd assume that it'd do the job with a well placed shot and I've heard a story of a guy who would hunt Blue wildebeest with a .30-30 and they are notoriously tough animals. I also wonder what the limit on them is, because I've read about Canadians and Alaskans taking Moose with the .30-30 so I wonder if one could take Eland with it

[tender ibex]

Truth be told, I do plan to take my .30-30 to Africa when I go. It'll just be plains game and nothing particularly grand though. I've killed some fairly large animals with my rifle tho.

A 600 some odd pound black bear, a few elk between 5 and 700 pounds, and particularly angry donkey that topped 350. I've been told a few times feral donkeys are as tough as zebra and I can tell you their hides are impressively thick too

I figure with accurate shooting, a good bullet, and someone who knows their limits a .30-30 could probably handle a lot more big game than people think.

In fact I just read a story about an Australian man who hunted sambar with it. His first one was a proper lung shot and went down within 50 yards of where he shot it. Then he shot another one, by his own admission too far forward, and started saying the cartridge wasn't working well

These are my favorite bullets for general hunting. I'm not typically shooting past 150 yards so they carry a pretty heavy slap of energy

[hollow ridge]

I reckon a .30-30 would make a really amazing Impala gun, seeming that its nice and light and short.
Id assume feral donkeys are as tough as Zebra because they're very similar, what I can vouch for though is that they taste exactly the same

[tender ibex]

Then I won't have to worry about a zebra hunt, donkey was not my favorite meal

[hollow ridge]

Sorted 😂

[tender ibex]

I will, however, buy an extra impala tag if they give me the chance

[hollow ridge]

How does the tag system work with the hunt you're going on ?

[tender ibex]

I've booked for 5 animals, I'm supposed to get the tags when I actually arrive at the lodge. At least as far as I understand it I can buy extra tags at the Landowners choice

[hollow ridge]

Oooh I see
Ja see when we go hunt the land owner who's also the PH at the place we go usually asks us what we wanna shoot and then mentions if there's anything in particular he doesn't want us to shoot so the tag system isn't all that familiar.

The most I think about tags is my dad who would purposely shoot Springbok rams with tags in their ears when they went springbok shooting 😂

[tender ibex]

What was his reasoning? Tagged animals mean a lot of different things here

[hollow ridge]

I'm not really sure, but I think it was just for the fun of it. He still paid full price for each one (they were usually decent sized rams that were tagged in the ear like a cow would be)

[tender ibex]

Fun

I wonder if it was just to annoy the people tagging them? I had a boss do that to me a ton when I worked with sheep

[hollow ridge]

I think so
He's the type of guy to do something to get a rise out of someone. He'll stir the pot a bit 😂

[tender ibex]

I can see it. He brings down a tagged animal they have to go back out and tag another to keep up with the herd count

[hollow ridge]

Ja I spoke to him now and he said "I wasn't supposed to shoot it and the guy told me I shouldn't so I shot it and when he asked me why I shot it I said it had the biggest horns"

He only did it once though 😂

[stone bough]

Facts, people irl harvest black bear and mountain lions all the time with 30-30s

[tender ibex]

Can confirm, .30-30 will flatline a cougar easily

[tender ibex]

100% he told me not to so I did it specifically to annoy him type of situation. I could probably get along with your dad just fine

[tender ibex]

These look very similar to the bullets in the teaser image, so I'm hoping for class 3-7 to just be baked in since there's quite literally just one rifle in that class range and an overpowered pistol carbine

[tender ibex]

Bump

[mint spade]

Bump

[tender ibex]

Hope this new .30-30 can handle black bears at least. I wanna use it like I do irl

[hollow ridge]

I just watched a video of a guy who took a moose with his model 94 .30-30 using 150gr loads with quite prominent hollow points. Shot just behind the shoulder and had a full pass-through.

Long story short, I think atleas a class 3-7 rework is necessary here

[tender ibex]

Yep, if you aren't stupid it'll handle a lot more game than people expect

[tender ibex]

Askiy Ridge species list is out, disappointing in several ways.

If the .30-30 doesn't get 3-7 it'll be hard to justify caring about this update. So many reused species on this map and the only unique animal is a beaver.

[polar hull]

This is just wrong. Take a look at the species list. The beaver is not the only new (sub-)species

[tender ibex]

I said the only unique animal. I did not mention species. Aside from the beaver tell me what added a new body shape or made for a different kind of hunt

[polar hull]

Mh... almost every new species will somehow feel the same. Either they take a bullet or birdshot 😅

[tender ibex]

So I will be paying 13$ for a digital version of my hunting rifle that won't even let me hunt black bear and elk with full scores

Oh joy

[polar hull]

You pay the devs to make them carry on developing. So we maaaybe get some day stuff like feeders and stuff. Things that add new gameplay loops

[tender ibex]

I've sunk 200$ for them to use the same 3 birds in five different maps, the same 3 mammals of five maps too

[polar hull]

Re-usage is the favorite of every game dev. I get your point. It's an annoying tradtion these days to keep efforts low - in every modern game

[tender ibex]

Then why do we pay them to disappoint us time after time? If there was any actual hunting games that could compete with CotW people would flock to them.

Correction, I'm stupid, I'll be paying 26$ because I have this game on two different consoles

[polar hull]

.e.g. i tried Woth, but it performs poorly on the ps5 and looks not as good as cotw. And I really really dislike the gunsound of woth. So i gave up on it. Yeah, there may be some improvements and patches, but the gameplay was not as fluid, so I stick to cotw.

[tender ibex]

I sincerely doubt they would actually make the .30-30 a 3-7 class weapon, it's too little known in Europe and there's a hard bias against it aside.

If they actually did it justice it would surprise me

[polar hull]

I even doubt any new ammunition for the .30-30. An artwork screenshot does not tell that there will be ANY rework to the rounds at all

[tender ibex]

I'm expecting complete disappointment, EW has been particularly good at handing out that lately

[ivory frost]

Hard to say, they haven’t reworked anything that’s already out unless we REALLY push them to do so. Even the .44 magnum didn’t get new ammo with the rifle but it seems a bit op anyways. The .45-70 definitely didn’t get reworked and neither did the 7mm or .338. There is hope but honestly not much unless we keep pushing.

[swift gust]

I’ve been seeing tons of people getting their summer roe bucks with 30-30 recently, it warms my heart to know some of y’all have come around to the cartridge.

[worthy hull]

enough power to knock it dead but not so much you lose so much meat that all you have left is barely enough for a sandwich lmao

[ivory frost]

It’s falling from grace back here in the states. Nowadays there’s plenty of rifles in the 500-700 dollar range that are perfectly acceptable, come in more ballistically efficient rounds, can mount scopes easier etc. and a new Winchester 94 will run around 1200 dollars and has a stupid safety. Cimarron makes a better 94 than Winchester but for roughly the same price and the Henry and Marlin rifles aren’t that much cheaper. The single shot options exist but they’re single shots and kinda crummy. When my dad got his 94 for his birthday back in 1975 it costed 75 dollars brand new.

[worthy hull]

-# Henry rifles are also a thing and cost much less

[tender ibex]

Dude, I went to Walmart for a sack of potatoes yesterday and there was a Henry .30-30 for sale at like 600$ or something. Marketing these days is focused on cartridges that fast and long range because it sounds cooler and makes people think they need it to hunt well

[hollow ridge]

The .30-30 CAN and WILL take down the big-big game and I expect EW to portray that

https://youtu.be/rsAAfcpppIg?si=iekduMGjwUCjhG3y
Here's a moose hunt with a .30-30

[tender ibex]

Somebody took a red stag, cool

[hollow ridge]

Here's additional info I found about the video I posted a link for.

Brobee , the maker of the above video , is a regular contributor on Canadian Gun Nutz . He's made a lot of very interesting ones over the years . He lives a little ways south of me and I've met him on a few occasions , a genuinely nice man . The Moose hunting video came about after a few years debate on CGN over the effectiveness of a 30/30 on Moose . Most who claimed it was useless for Moose had never used one . Brobee grew up in rural Alberta and had seen the old cartridge used many times on Moose , Elk and other large game , mostly by people who didn't read gun magazines and shot game with the rifle they had . He's an interesting guy , he's done a number of videos concerning the use of shotguns on big game , including one where he takes a Mule Deer with buckshot , very cleanly I might add .

[ivory frost]

A good bit of the henry rifles I've seen were around 800 which isnt terrible but looking at the amount of bolt guns for less is kinda sad. Used prices vary but there still are some affordable .30-30s just not very many.

[tender ibex]

Bolt guns are cheaper cause they done need as much metal and plastic is cheaper than wood

[tender ibex]

I'm shocked how well it did.

One of them took half an hour to find. I'll let you guess

[hollow ridge]

I was doing some testing myself over the weekend.
If you shoot a European Bison directly in the brain with the .30-30 it'll get up and run a little distance and then die so in EW's mind, the .30-30 can't even instantly kill a Euro Bison with a direct brainshot

[tender ibex]

Yep sounds right, but what do I know, I've only killed something like 40 deer, 5 elk, a dozen or so black bears, a couple feral donkeys and an S10 with mine

[hollow ridge]

Ja it's ridiculous
But I think because the meta in game is shooting animals from as far as possible as quickly as possible like it's a Cull simulator, we'd have to be extremely lucky to see improvements to anything that exists that isn't conforming to that style of gameplay

[tender ibex]

Yep, devs only care for grinders, as if they pay more than the rest of us

[hollow ridge]

That's the thing that I find so annoying
I think they have a perception that it would be more profitable to only accommodate grinders when in reality, they just push away other players by doing what they do.

In all honesty I myself have kinda been less and less interested in their new stuff lately, with exception the pack with the .375

[tender ibex]

Exactly, with the exception of the .375 I haven't enjoyed any dlc since Emerald Coast. Nothing had really hit the same feeling

[hollow ridge]

At the end of the day, I really want a hunting game, not a Cull simulator

[tender ibex]

I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the player base are casual players who will never see a GO

[hollow ridge]

Probably
I think most people play the game to sit back and relax, not to pick up a chore

[tender ibex]

I do at least, cotw is the game I pick up when I need to clear my head and spend a few hours quietly. The new map is adding my go too rifle irl so I feel like it'll bug me even worse if it's not a good representation. But I can't think about it without worrying they've just doubled down and made it just as bad as the first one. On top of that I'm not even sure if the map itself will be the kind of thing that makes me enjoy this game

[hollow ridge]

https://youtu.be/hJYk07rN8GU?si=hBoWQ-bgz8PV6aQp
(Skip to 20:49)
310m shot with a .30-30 on a elk, and it dropped like a rock...

[mint spade]

And how to shoot now with this stick what the devs given us.

[tender ibex]

It's a reserve weapon, it has to be good.

I keep telling myself that but that f-ing OP .44 is always tbere

[polar hull]

spent my last .30-30 rounds ingame today (hopefully getting new better polymertip penetration ammo. Wanted to be clear of old stuff) ... and I was again underwhelmed of the current ingame representation. If the ammo does not get better, I don't see me using that new reserve weapon a lot (apart of the new-thing-phase)

[tender ibex]

Remember how the new rifles paragraph specifically mentioned wolves and whitetails? This is what the current rifle does with the "penetration" ammo

[worthy hull]

pain

[tender ibex]

Having killed a wolf at the same distance in very nearly the same circumstances with my irl .30-30, I can say without any margins of doubt.

It should have been a full pass through

I was even using cheap ammo from Walmart and got a full blown exit wound 2x the size the entry wound was

[polar hull]

The penetration was extremely inconsistent. The hitbox of the second image must have been way off.

[polar hull]

Otherwise: Take the moradi and pretend it would be your .30-30 😅

[tender ibex]

Brother I bought a 12ga in a gas station once

You gotta do a background check to make sure you aren't a felon but otherwise we have pretty relaxed rules as long as you live in the same state you get the gun.

Back where I grew up there was a little gas station with a lunch buffet, camping section, grocery store, tackle shop with live bait including crickets and minnows, a gun counter with ammunition and a rack of soft cases for them, and a boat shop out the back.

You could walk in, get some chips, a coke, a bucket of minnows, a few boxes of ammo, a new fishing rod, a scope or a whole rifle if you wanted, a sandwich for the road and gasoline or motor oil for your boat and truck in one place

[tender ibex]

You gotta remember, most of us live sparsely populated areas where the most likely threat or conflict will be with animals. Black bears regularly break into houses and raid small farms, so do the majority of small predators.

Most of the time it's stuff like that or maybe a feral pig getting aggressive while your hiking or fishing. I've known game wardens who gave absolutely no da*&s about the rifle on your shoulder as long as your fishing license was in order.

I had it one time where a game warden told me if I was gonna be catfishing at night then I needed at least a shotgun on hand because they'd had trouble with boars. The man literally wouldn't let me set up until I showed him my rifle.

I can see the reason for laws in other countries being strict but I find it weird that most Europeans just assume we treat our guns like toys

[winged compass]

☝ This guy 🤣

[inland kettle]

Both level rifles badly need love

[hollow ridge]

2k hours in War Thunder will really put one off of grinding 😂

[winged compass]

🤣 I get that. MMORPG's myself & MH:Wilds. When I play hunting games I decide on what I'm in the mood to hunt & with what caliber. I rarely go on a shooting spree & if I do its on Savanna. I typically ignore the medal mechanic & play/hunt as I would irl. Its more enjoyable than to force myself to use class lock calibers, although my biggest complaint is the Hudzik doesn't do squat to bison. I love to black powder hunt in CotW & i really would like to see more.

[hollow ridge]

Ja no same
When I'm playing CotW I usually grab my .308 or my .375 load out and just head out into the map with favorable wind and just hunt. I must say that play style floats my boat 😂

[pallid torrent]

You can definitely take animals as large as Moose with a .30-30 with a well placed shot. Eland are (from what I’ve heard) a good bit thicker and tougher than a Moose but I’d bet at a close enough range you could probably take one down.

[hollow ridge]

I know you can take down a Eland with a 150gr sp from a .30-06 at about 75m if you slip it between the ribs, I reckon the same is possible with the .30-30, it's just when you hit bone that I think you're gonna loose that animal

[pallid torrent]

.30-30 is significantly slower and less powerful than a .30-06 (at least in my experience), so your shot would have to be essentially perfect to take one down. Plus, you’d have to be using Polymer Tip rounds to even have a chance at penetrating through the skin and lung to hit either the heart or farside lung.

[hollow ridge]

Ja I think Eland are probably a bit too big to reliably get one good shot that takes it down, because despite their size, Eland have crazy endurance and will trot for a whole day without stopping of they're being pursued.

I reckon Kudu are still doable though because a 220gr .30-06 will pass clean through at 60m, even at a bit of an angle

[pallid torrent]

Both Lesser and Greater Kudu shouldn’t be an issue for a .30-30. People hunt Elk with .30-30 all the time, I’ve even shot one myself with one, and seeing as Greater Kudu max out at around 315kg (694 lbs), which isn’t far off from a decent size Bull Elk, it shouldn’t be a problem.

[tender ibex]

Hardcast SWC would dmbe better, they don't make poly tipped .30-30 bullets too heavy. I killed a Angus bull with this type of bullet and I have a custom made 190gr bullet mould for it. At one time I had a single shot .30-30 that I used it for but I had to sell it. The load was doing just under 2600fps at the muzzle

[hollow ridge]

I'd love to test it (because I'm sure it'd work) but with a 3 long gun limit, idk if I'd go through the paperwork for a .30-30 tbh

[tender ibex]

Devs please,

Make this .30-30 truly different and cover classes 3-7. It can do that much and it does it well!

[tender ibex]

Saw the new short, but it was barely a glimpse and didn't give any information on the rifle at all

[mint spade]

I think so. If devs really changed the 30-30 they will show it on next week. If not or slightly we will see it from early access only. The same we have seen with the Candhare rifle. Nobody test it on the moose in the early access. Because so big penetration and expansion didn't work on moose.

[tender ibex]

Not long now, just hoping to see the class range

[undone swift]

We don't currently have poly tip ammo for the .30-30 .... It would be so simple for them to add this and make it 3 thru 7 or better yet 8 .... 160gr ... Please make it so .... Just make it slightly ethical at 8...

Sort of like the 7mm is ethical at 9 ..... Not really what you want to use for class 9 but you can use it in a pinch. This new .30-30 ammo would be the same at class 8 ....

The Whitlock could still use this round but it wouldn't have the scope adaptability ... So Whitlock would be a beginners .30-30 and the Lamperriere would be for late game hunters ..... Just makes so much sense ....

[hollow ridge]

Goodness I hope they make it a 3-8

[tender ibex]

Currently, you unlock the Whitlock way before the .45-70, and the only scope the Whitlock can use is almost double the xp of the rifle. So that needs to change or it'll be entirely irrelevant.

If the did make the .30-30 cover 3-8 with class 8s taking a long time to go down I would be really happy. That would make it close to the .44mag, or at least close enough for me.

I just want to see the ammo be interchangeable for both .30-30 rifles, you can use the old 2-6 ammo for varmints and the new stuff for more realistic hunts

[tender ibex]

I'm gonna be honest. There's no balance in the guns now, dlc after dlc has made balancing impossible. At this point they should just rework every caliber in game to be more realistic and let players decide what they like best.

No meta weapon for any particular thing, just how people want to play and what they choose to buy.

[hollow ridge]

100% agree with this
There's no way to balance most of these firearms at all

[tender ibex]

Dlcs threw whatever sense of balance there was out the plane with no parachute a long time ago. A lost of really cool guns are left in the dust because of it

[hollow ridge]

Exactly
The .270 I think is a shining example of that because when the first .30-06 was added it was basically already completedy redundant because it's performance or class range was never changed

And it's pretty sad cuz it's a nice looking gun in game

[tender ibex]

Worst part of that for me is I absolutely love the .270. The iron sights are absolutely beautiful for actual hunting. It sounds good, the action looks realistic and magazine switch is great.

The .30-06 bolt action looks so weirdly round and angular somehow. The sights are okay but looks a little weird, it sounds amazing tho.

If I could swap the eckers' sound and .30-06 ammo over to the Huntsman it'd be my favorite bolt action rifle

[hollow ridge]

For me, the .30-06 performance and sound in the Olson .308 would be so great, but I don't think the irl counterpart takes .30-06 or anything very similar

But back to the point of balancing, I don't mean to bad mouth EW but they really do not know anything about firearms and how they function in hunting

[tender ibex]

Short action .308 would accept .243, .338 Federal, or .358 winchester but yeah, not .30-06 unless you ignore the game logic and let it happen.

Anyway yeah, they've worked really hard on making it a beautiful and realistic show of the animals for the most part, then just kinda ignored the way we actually connect to the animals

[hollow ridge]

Maybe we see a positive change in that regard in future, though I'm definitely not getting my hopes up

[tender ibex]

I don't know if that could be a thing, I'd love if it could be

[tender ibex]

Apologize for the bad lighting, the light bulb blew out when I was trying to get the picture.

.30-30 Winchester ammo 170 grains. Basic as it gets. 2200fps.

Most of my ammo is handloaded to around 25-2600. These are factory loads you can find basically anywhere though and the brass is good. Even this load, which is honestly kinda wimpy for factory ammo, will kill black bears and elk at reasonable distances. Inside 200 or 250 yards this stuff will hit with about 1000k foot pounds of energy.

[tender ibex]

Bump

[ivory frost]

It’s ridiculous. I’m gonna make a thread about reworking the old weapons because it’s obvious that originally things were supposed to be balanced, then they said screw balancing and forgot to update everything else.

[ivory frost]

Again that’s an IF they changed it. When the 44 mag rifle was added I think the only thing that was changed was xp and same goes for the 45-70 pistol. Performance wise there’s no difference except zeroing distances.

[tender ibex]

There's the new ammo, it's in the sled around the rifle itself. I'm sincerely hoping for a new set of ammo but I'm all but expecting it's just a new model for the storage screen to display

[ivory frost]

It probably will be a store icon change but here’s to hoping it’s good

[tender ibex]

#1381323425951514775

[hollow ridge]

@tender ibex you're not gonna like this...
https://youtu.be/FJBiiLjps6Q?si=7u-eSq3R625VL7qE

[ivory frost]

Yep, no 3-7 .30-30 to be found. Not even an ammo change or anything. Same junk, different look. Seems that too much emphasis was put into having snow that deforms instead of yk, good gameplay.

[heavy solar]

75m effective range btw...

[ivory frost]

Does effective range mean anything? I feel like we need a dev breakdown on all the ammo stats because none of it really makes sense tbh

[tender ibex]

OPTICS DON'T MEAN SH*T WHEN YOU JUST RESKIN A CRAP GUN EW, YOU DIDN'T FIX A PROBLEM YOU PAINTED OVER IT

[worthy hull]

i figured this would make you quite angry

[tender ibex]

Had a crap.day to start with and then saw this, brilliant

[heavy solar]

It means bullet drop after 75m. It will probably zero for 50 75 100.

[ivory frost]

It shows zero at 50 100 150

[tender ibex]

It's a reskin of the Whitlock, there's nothing new about it

[ivory frost]

I guess being able to use normal rifle scopes is how they justify it.

[heavy solar]

It's not like the old scope is that bad. It doesn't really matter, because it's still a short range weapon just like the whitlock.

[tender ibex]

A rifle using rifle scopes is the absolute baseline but apparently they decided that's enough of a feature

[ivory frost]

Seriously, I wish there were mounts and scopes separate so you could use most scopes on most things. But no, lets screw a side mounted scope onto a side ejecting lever gun and mount a normal scope like a scout scope.

[tender ibex]

This is such a waste for a rifle that could easily be a 3-7 or 3-8. A new type of ammo was all it needed. ONE NEW TYPE. But no, apparently just reskinning one of the oldest guns in the game was all they cared to do

[mint spade]

For alert and flee

[mint spade]

Minus 0.5 kg from lodaut. 😎

[tender ibex]

Minus 109gb from my storage

[glad stump]

I’m pretty sure this guy designed the new .30-30.

And this guy (below,) is behind the .45-70.

[mint spade]

It was predictable. I didn't believe in the new ammo. Devs behawour about guns is predictable. 30-30 with more power and 3-7 bullet doesn't fit of devs picture about the balance. We got reworked snow, reworked animals and a new GO. Large of hunters will happy. I'm boring without aggressive grizzly, brown bear, lion, puma but don't forget about newbies. We have already given our money but they not. Newbies like graphics, semi auto and don't want to feel helpless and afraid in every map. And devs give it. We must continue to fight.

[ivory frost]

Exactly, they focus a lot on new players instead of experienced. I get it you don’t want new players to feel lost but to a degree, come on man.

[astral wraith]

Genuinely can't believe they didn't buff the 30-30 with this update. Either buy it with in game currency or do missions for a weapon that's just a crappier .243 despite how many requests exist for the 30-30 to be changed.

[worthy hull]

im big sad abt this ngl

shouldve been class 3-7 or 3-8

[astral wraith]

I'd be content with 3-7 and a significant buff. It needs it, badly. There's no reason to use the 30-30 in this game over the .243 or now, the quist reaper or even the .300blk

[worthy hull]

its so painful 😭

[mint spade]

When I was a newbie I didn't care about the 30-30 and 45-70. I didn't care about bolt action rifles even. Now I'm experienced. I want to hunt like irl. Because I payed a lot of money, because I old client...🤡 But devs not fools. The old cow doesn't bring much milk only grumble. Maybe UH will give us the new feelling.

[swift gust]

The guy who made the 300blk 3-6

[winged compass]

Its another disaster for calibers thats for sure. They need to focus on updating the weapons & ammo. I'm thrilled to see the depth in the reserves & the animal reworks I truly am, but that's only 2/3rds of gameplay. Our equipment is the 1/3rd still missing or rather needs touched 😮‍💨

[coarse pivot]

we get arrows doing this but we can't get an actually functional and performance-accurate 30-30 smh
i don't even have any bow perks equipped either to make this even worse

[astral wraith]

50m awayz through the skull and entire spine of a moose, but an accurate to life 30-30 just can't be done :/

[coarse pivot]

railguns for bows but a nerf gun for a 30-30, what a time to be alive

[coarse pivot]

see, I feel like this is an odd take though, bc the Mosin exists (3-7) and the Moradi is actually broken (3-8 and can run down the entire body length of a moose)

I really don't get how it wouldn't make sense balance-wise for the 30-30 to be worth using at all

we also have a lot of class overlap (and even specific ammo overlap too), so I feel like that wouldn't be an issue either

[mint spade]

Mosin 3-7 but not good for the front shot. Without 7.62x54R this rifle doesn't provide any benefits. Moradi is a joke. Overpowered pistol bullet. I don't use Moradi. Forgot about it.

[polar hull]

Exactly this was predictable. I didn't expect any ammo change, just due to a promotion screenpicture.

Anyway, I am hungry for new content and map. I will buy it anyway. As i was never a big fan of lever actions (neither ingame nor irl) i don't care for the .30-30 not being buffed.

Gamingwise the .30-30 being class 2-x might make sense from (physics ignoring) point of view. Otherwise it would completely compete with the maximum overpowered moradi with its crazy pistol penetration value (which are completely broken btw!). If they would not bring the moradi in line at the same time as they buff the .30-30, there would be no place for the .30-30 being class 3-x, because it does not perform like the broken pistol penetration using guns. I guess, they simply didn't want to nerf the moradi and that's why the new/old .30-30 will stay in its place. They are minimizing the changes to skip the moaning about a nerf from moradi-users, who might have got taken away their railgun.

[coarse pivot]

Buffing the 30-30 to work like an actual 30-30 wouldn't cause it to compete with the Moradi in its current state. We also have a ton and a half of 4-8 ammo types, so I really don't see why that's a problem here

Also, with all due respect, if it's something you lack interest or care in, why are you voicing that you don't care? In this case, whatever happens to the 30-30 clearly has no impact on how you play the game. There's no need to come in and be a contrarian about it

[polar hull]

It was a sidenote to tell the devs, that not everybody is outrageous and about to uninstall the game, as many stated here and the other thread. Sorry for not sharing rage 😉 . So why are people pointing out, that they uninstall the game!? It does not affect anybody.

Just wanted to say between the lines: Don't focus on the downsides. Focus on the positive: We get a new reserve for many years old game, just in about a week.

[coarse pivot]

I'm sorry but "don't focus on the downsides" is a ridiculous take

Our complaints about the 30-30 cartridge in-game is a valid criticism. Not all of us are "raging" about it. A lot of people have real-life experience with various 30-30 loads, and its portrayal in-game is just blatabtly inaccurate and isn't an effective deer hunting platform

The community has voiced desires for changes before that were implemented (like the .577/450 cartridge being expanded to class 9 animals), so it's completely fair to voice our concerns regarding the performance of the 30-30 and how we want it to be a more authentic portrayal, and as such request it to be an actual official change

So I raise this question again: if it has no effect on you, why are you being a contrarian about it?

[coarse pivot]

What happens to the 30-30 (and the other lever action rifles) clearly has no impact on how you play (source: yourself)

[coarse pivot]

we also just want the game to be fun in a way we can enjoy. Voicing criticisms comes from a desire for positive change. I don't see how that's an issue either

[polar hull]

What's your point in repeating a sidenote, in a post that had many more sentences? Won't reply to this anymore. 😉

I hoped for a new more useable gun too, btw. I am just not shocked and outrageous. I would have used it too, if it was good. Was just trying to say, don't get too much over the top by uninstalling stuff. If people hurt them selves by ragequitting it does not help anybody. No game in the world is worth any rage.
The critics are valid and i never pulled them into doubt.

So if you wish to find someone to project rage on, i am not the one to do so. Over and out... and again: I also hoped for a new good gun.

[coarse pivot]

I mean, i'm not the one raging. I don't know why you keep using that word for me when that's really not the case

let's just leave it at this, it's not producing anything meaningful to the topic of this feedback post

[glad stump]

No one is raging here.

[polar hull]

Just wanted to share my guesses on the way the devs think and leave a more positove vibe (also not raging at all😉 ). It's far off physics. See the arrows.... the whole ballistics need and overhaul... but let's be honest: This game os many years old. They wouldn't spend any time on this, as this does not create any money.

And money is the only thing, that matters to project leads (even if it would matter to the devs at the tech level). Project leads always prioritize money.

[polar hull]

Have read on this discord (in this or the other thread) about multiple people quitting the whole game bc of this. 😉 naaah. We need to point out, why this would make more money for EW to give the .3030 an usefulness-overhaul. That's the only lever (pun intended) on this issue, that we have

The only working argument chain would be: Better gun (like the .300 canning from yukon) : would also attract players to this dlc, that don't care in Medved 2.0 .
Not a meta gun, but a usefull one, they can relate to. But if they make it bad (like they are going to do) they will not the money, they hope for bc they will only attract the players, that need a second medved or buy every dlc.

This is the only way, a project lead might think about it. It is always the money - only the money.
Devs don't care about uninstalling, because the money was already made. And the devs never cared about physics (see arrows, see pistol cartridges, see slugs,...)
We won't have any success in keeping to point out the (valid!) physics point of view. Let's keep treating cotw as what it is: a game... intended to make money. Money is our lever - the only working one to succeed in getting a buff.

By the way: a change in ammo or stats won't happen in the inbound update. This is due to fact, that the game devs have to send in the compiled updates to sony and microsoft for console stability approval many days ahead of the planned release. But we might hope for a fix in a potential autumn content update.

[winged compass]

This would be more likely given the Gandhare reclass so I do agree that if changes are made it'll be in the next update. An your right it is a game & an outdated one at that but it doesn't excuse the company to not follow their MO esp. on reserve exclusives. In previous years including Nepal & SP all reserve exclusives had the Huntable Game in that reserve in mind. Gandhare was reclassed from 4-8 to 4-9 "Tigers", SP O/U 10ga Birdshot reclassed from C:1 to C:1-2 to justify its use on a C:1-2 reserve however. EW dropped the ball on the Fors Elite as a 3-6 preventing players to use it ethically (mechanic) on SP on a sameday launch & EW has never released a pk that could be used on any reserve till the Winter update. As far as I'm concerned with the new 30-30 EW made the mistake advertising it with new ammo in the image. Now as a reserve exclusive I would've excepted 2-6/3-7 to pair well with the base game 30-30 & the new reserve given the Beaver (2?), Caribou (5), Elk (7), & ofc the black bear (7). This would be a fair balance & seperate the old to the new. It would also be fair to make the 30-30 a 2-7 to go well next to the Moradi at 3-8 (ofc I'd also like to see 45-70 get tlc in the same update). In terms of making money making the newer 30-30 model unique & differ from the old as an exclusive aside from scope utility would intise more players to use it not only in AR but other reserves as well. Most Dlc weapon pks already outperform most base game weapons so I truly feel this is a reasonable request. It doesn't have to be drastic to be useful if this is considered.

[polar hull]

Agreeing your thoughts, but i am afraid, the devs share a different point of view...
Yes, they made a picture with new ammo, but as far as it concerns me, I never took that promo pic as serious source of information. I mean, we don't get snow shoes either. Promo pics are just promo pics... like delicious meal pics on convinience food in the fridge in your super market. This not, what you get, unfortunately. 👎
This is a trend in video games we can observe in increasing intensity over the last years in many video game genres.

And yes... to change this, they'd need just to adjust some variable values... but... as long as they don't gain any financial advantage by doing so, I guess, they won't.

The last hope is, that they upgraded the ammo pen and exp values at least... we didn't see the exact values to compare them to the current state.

Hope dies last 🤷‍♂️

Let's illustrate with a funny AI image,...

[winged compass]

My point with that is backlash. Its bad business and your probably right that they dont care atleast at the moment thinking it'll blow over but if you keep doing it you'll lose trust in your consumers with false advertising. Most of the time yea companies get away with it but from where I stand the community is pretty tight on the details when they are presented. I can foresee alot of backlash bc they strayed from their MO on reserve exclusives & the 30-30 like the 270 have been heavily requested for a rework. With some luck they'll see the oversight & make the changes bc I guarantee more ppl would buy the reserve if the exclusive is unique over the base model esp. If your able to hunt Beaver up to Elk & black bear. Thats all. But it would make sense to do so for a reserve exclusive as a new model just as they have done in the past 2 reserve exclusives.

[polar hull]

I get your point and agree, but as long as big companies like EA or Ubisoft get away with that, i am afraid, EW will think the same.
Some guy, who studied MBA told me, there is a whole branch of game theory in economics. This has side effects, like that it is okay to lose the most loyal fan base (by making bad game descisions to minimize your dev and testing cost (by reducing the subjects of change) as long you still find enough mainstream customers that compensate for that loss - e.g. those who know nothing about guns irl. I guess, most of those mainstream customers (without deeper knowledge) aren't even on EWs discord. But as long as they compensate for losses in the most loyal fan base, the management is fine with it

And I am not justifying this. Just describing... 😞

[winged compass]

No its a fair point, but you know as well as I do they benefit from the community in producing the games direction & content including sales. I doubt EW would continue support for this title if ppl quit due to distrust & if the community gets ignored in the future. Dont get me wrong the game has been successful for being active for 8yrs but like any company if a product quits making money they make a new one. But in any case, I dont see players letting this 1 go. I for 1 wont bc I really wanted this kind of reserve since Medved & was jumping with joy to get the new 30-30 model for Elk & Black Bear.

[polar hull]

I wish the content creators would tell a little bit more... critics in their content. Many of them are just cheering every update. This would help in many issues of our beloved game

[deep roost]

Honestly, same. EW has done a lot of great things, but they need to be called out at times by the bigger CCs when it is warranted.

[winged compass]

We need our beard brother back or someone to coordinate with the community again. I feel like alot of our issues were resolved back then unlike now where were fishing in the dark. This leaves too much unanswered. Dont get me wrong it didn't solve everything but it puts our community at ease with some assurance over doubts.

[tender ibex]

To be clear, quitting the game and walking away isn't just due to the .30-30 not being exactly what I want. It's because of the consistency of p*ss poor decisions time and again. Since the first GO went over well with a small minority of the player base the devs have put tons of time and resources into them with zero regard for anyone else's play style.

Aside from that, they haven't done even the slightest effort to get the guns and equipment correct. Bows especially are pointlessly OP, the handguns and Moradi are broken as sh*t, the rifles are without exception the weakest weapons in-game. And the class system is obviously a massive problem.

The entire reason I'm p*ssed enough to drop the game is that the new rifle was shown with new ammunition. They went through the trouble to model new ammunition and didn't even touch the actual cartridges. The Outrider is legitimately a new .30-30 skin on a map with nothing but beavers and subspecies to claiming to be unique after literal years of people begging for an Arctic map.

So unless they're being exceptionally stupid and showing the new rifle equipped with old ammunition this entire map and update revolve around reskins of existing animals and a water rat

[worthy gate]

News flash, every hunting game will have subspecies. Unless you avoid a good chunk of animals and areas to hunt.

Some games add reskins faster then others ( looking at you woth 5th and 6th map, with the 6th one that added like 2 new animals only )

[tender ibex]

So how about lynx? Coyotes needed a remodel too, could have added swift fox for the first class 1 predator, several kinds of grouse could replace the mallards. My point is they chose to add animals that are on tons of maps and not the ones unique to the region

[worthy gate]

Ok see that’s a better way to put it and I agree. Personally I would’ve worded it as I’m tired of getting the same animals that are on 4 5 maps, and not subspecies. because those elk look incredible! The caribou not so much. Plus I still want dall sheep and the way you originally put it sounded like you wouldn’t want them since we have bighorn sheep xD. ( ps devs can we please go 4 maps without mallards, whitetail, moose, black bear, pheasants, turkeys ( unless its a completely new turkey ), red deer, fallow deer, red fox. )

[tender ibex]

See my issue isn't with the elk or bison, they're good looking and feel different enough to make it believable. My issue is entirely birds and constant reskins. Mule deer needed it but whitetail could have waited, they could have replaced them with blacktail and reworked them to be amazing. But then, mallards are on 6 maps now and black bear 5? Why? Just because it's a GO?

[worthy gate]

For the black bear g1 probably. As for mallards? Probably because those freaking ducks are everywhere as there’s no g1 for them. Unless…… they better not be the new g1 😭

[rocky shoal]

I mean, I agree that we don't need tons of maps for every species that has a GO, but if a species has a very wide range irl, then it makes sense that you'll have them on a lot of maps. Mallards can be found pretty much worldwide so it makes sense to have them on a lot of maps.

[tender ibex]

They left the .30-30 2-6 with absolutely no real difference between it and the Whitlock. Makes me think it'll be either wolves or beavers

Worldwide spread doesn't mean we aren't sick of mallarda

[worthy gate]

I do wish te awaroa got paradise ducks

[undone swift]

Sure Mallards are an over abundant species worldwide ... But in a game were you model a small (relative to the world ) 64KM size map with a limited number of species they don't have to be on every map .... Same with white tail and Black bears ... Having reworked Grizzlies would have been a huge addition ....

[glad stump]

Grizzlies would have been really nice.

[mint spade]

I don't see problem with mallard. When we hunted ducks we sorted them on big (mallard, gadwall), small (teal), edible and not very edible (cormorant). Local community worries so many about species but it's only ducks. For me it's only diamonds.

[ivory frost]

Knowing ew I wouldn’t past them to make a g1 beaver. Wolf makes sense but ew hasn’t been making sense this time around.

[deep roost]

GO Beaver would be fun, but lame overall. It's a reward for all that vengeance, but lame compared to elk, muleys, or bighorn.

[ivory frost]

It would be funny to get one super trophy beaver, then disapointing to realize that they used their time effort for that instead of a wolf or something.

[deep roost]

Agreed.

[tender ibex]

An SR beaver through the story mission would be cool, save the GO for wolves or something worth the effort

[polar hull]

I'd like to see a big g1 beaver. A really chunky one... 🤣

[worthy gate]

Well bighorn sheep just got massively improved after 5 years, maybe there is still hope for the older firearms

[mint spade]

Scarecrow said that 30-30 feels more powerful on wolves. But he's not sure.

[coarse pivot]

I saw Vivi say earlier that the 30-30 recieved a tuning pass, so I'm curious to see how it feels

[worthy hull]

if it were completely accurate it'd knock a wolf dead as a sack of stones at 200 yards and closer

[mint spade]

He's in a hurry. Because his community want a mule grind asap. 😎

[tender ibex]

Considering I've shot a wolf and watched it fall after two steps, I don't think they got it right even then

[coarse pivot]

yeah... :/

[tender ibex]

We had the flood of 4-8 guns the last few years so they might have switched to 2-6 just change it up. They won't even consider changclasses enough to make everything feel unique

Oh and I was wrong, Flinter did use the the .30-30 on wolves and immediately said it was underpowered.

Why am I not surprised?

[astral wraith]

Watching the 30-30 being used, any changes that were made to it were extremely minimal. Won't even get 100% quick kill on literal pronghorn with a single lung from 100ish meters

[worthy hull]

thats a fucken bruh moment

[astral wraith]

Gun that hammers black bears and elk struggles on a damn pronghorn. Disappointing.

[worthy hull]

disappointing as all hell cant lie

[rocky shoal]

so it's still effectively useless. Wonderful.

[tender ibex]

There needs to be a bunch of threads popping up all at once to change the 30-30 or they'll just ignore it again

[astral wraith]

Just a worse .243 still

[undone swift]

I know a lot of people are excited about this DLC ... I was at first myself .... But now that I see how EW refuse to transparently communicate and they play games with pictures .... I have no other recourse than to refuse to buy this DLC ....

IMO a very key and critical part of this update is obviously broken and it would be hypocritical of me to purchase at this point .... removed from wish list ....

[tender ibex]

I canceled my pre-order and deleted the game off my system, need a good long break from this crap

[heavy solar]

The lack of transparency is ridiculous. They refuse to talk about any problem with the game. There is absolutely no engagement in any of the feedback posts and they just say we know this is a popular request. Even when they did a Q&A with the devs, it was just a complete waste of time with no real answer to any question. Like it's really night and day compared to other small teams like klei.

[mint spade]

(Attention bad English). Devs will thinking about it (old rifles, behawour of predators etc) only if the game will stop receiving new hunters. But grind, lot of maps, ton of guns, hold game on normal level. I didn't play about 6 months because after years of playing I see other game now. The game that needs a lot of rework. But my wife (newbie) receiving a lot of fun from picture and semi-auto rifles. She is like me four years ago. Picture, semi-auto and hunt...... Maybe devs will hear us some day.

[tender ibex]

They showed a teaser image of snow in a forest and said absolutely nothing for about 6 months, leaving everyone to speculate and hope for the Arctic map that's been requested for years. They don't include animals that people have been absolutely begging for, "remaster" practically every animal on the roster and reuse species on as many as five other maps. On top of this, the rifle that most exemplifies how outdated the base game weapons are and one of the most requested reworks in the entire game gets a new model, new ammunition models, and makes absolutely zero changes that were actually requested. They looked at it, recognized the problem, and refused to do a damn thing to actually improve it.

[inland kettle]

I agree with all of this.

The way EW has been acting has been really annoying

Especially as, for every good decision, they've been remarkably tone deaf for relatively easy changes that the community at large has been begging for vigorously

[tender ibex]

I know a rework idea for the Whitlock was the first thing I posted in feedback whenever I joined this mess

[polar hull]

I am pretty sure, the barrel length of the respective weapon also comes into play. Iirc there was as statement of the community manager that the chosen barrel length of the community weapon pack rifles which were in the poll affected the weapons ballistics, like it would do in the real world. E.g. the content creator "Pantoffelplays" said in his video that the new .30-30 performs quite well. And if you watch him use this rifle, it seems to have a longer barrel, than the old .30-30.
I guess there is really more influence to the terminal ballistics than just penetration and expansion value of the use ammunition.

We will be able to test it by ourselves in juat two days

[tender ibex]

Funny. That Moradi .44 has a 16 inch barrel but will punch through a moose like a paper bag. The Coachmate. 45-70 has an 18in barrel and it zeros to 150m and can't kill a bear at 50m. The .45-70 pistol with a 10 in barrel zeroes at 200m and can kill buffalo at that distance.

Maybe they did change something but not enough for me to get me to pay for it. Anybody who wants to should but I'm not spending money on this is if they won't fix problems

[inland kettle]

Yeah it's rly not worth it

[hollow ridge]

Don't worry, the .30-30 isn't my breaking point, fcked up Africa 2.0 and fcked up Impala are, so Ill get the new map and test the performance of the .30-30 at various ranges on Whitetail, Elk and Black bear and compare it to the Withlock and see if EW truly changed anything or not

[ivory frost]

I’m definitely testing the Whitlock on everything before this stuff comes out so I have a point of reference.

[hollow ridge]

on my way to test rn lol

[latent kayak]

How do you know the barrel lengths?

[tender ibex]

I know the models irl, I have a .44mag like the one in game too

[tender ibex]

Butchering my go to rifle for big game of the last 20 years definitely hit the wrong way

For the record, the model 94 rifle the Whitlock is based on has a 24in barrel in the "cowboy" version in game

The Outrider is based on a Marlin 336 with a barrel length of 20 inches. It should hold 6 rounds but for some stupid reason it's capped at 4

[inland kettle]

I think what annoyed me the most was that the devs overall seem to not listen

I'd love to be proven wrong tho

[heavy solar]

I am cautiously exited for the new patch, but we will probably not see any QOL changes or anything useful, just like with Sunderpatan. At least a fix for birds having the same hp as a bison.

[inland kettle]

I think QoL patches are something that needs to be pushed for more, rather than new stuff or maps

Especially for the weapons and ammo

If the devs are here, I'd love to talk about suggestions for QoL updates with y'all

[tender ibex]

This threads gone a little off topic, the rifle still needs to be changed. 3-7 is not a hard change to make and the buff will be make it way more popular to use.

There's more than enough 2-6 options now, the .30-30 needs to be moved up and have that stupid range restriction changed too

[swift gust]

.22H does better on pronghorn if that’s the case then.

[mint spade]

First dlc I bought this M1 30.06. Because I found that 30-30 and 270 are the trash. Years ago I didn't know about rifles and want only one thing. Drop on the spot. Weak old rifles are the pure management. Make us to spend money. Good exception are 7mm and 338. Good rifles but a single shot. In this way devs could replace 270 on a powerful single shot 270. But what to do with lever rifles? And as far as I understood: Old can't deleted only add new. But this will create a mess. Now we have a dead end.

[ivory frost]

the 7mm and 338 used to be the most powerful rifles (and are if you dont have dlc) back when balancing was a concern, so they made them single shot and made the 45-70 and 30-30 have lower capacity than the standard rifle they were equal to in class, those being 270 and 243 respectivly. Things have changed and now realism is more of a concern than balance, so it would be nice to see "full power ammo" added for most notably the .30-30, and 45-70 since all fall way short of what they should be as well as a capacity boost to probably 6 and 5 respectively, one thing they fell way short of with the new .30-30.

[mint spade]

That's the problem. We want realism, devs cling to balance. Maybe new ammo are the problem for old rifles. idk. If yes It would be possible to solve this by making all old base guns to single shot. 30-30, 45-70, 270. And add new ammunition. But idk is it possible to remove the old and add a new or not.

[inland kettle]

Yeah balance is meaningless in a game like this, at least in regards to weapon power

[ivory frost]

Probably not replace existing weapons, but mostly just add a better ammo and increase the lever action capacities. Reducing the weight of the single shots would also be good since I believe the bolt 7mm is one unit less than the single shot. I'm not sure if they are clinging to balance as much as ignoring the base game stuff since it won't make money.

[hollow ridge]

I think following the money is generally speaking the most reliable answer

[twin sage]

Update of 30-30 ammo:

.30-30 ammunition has been retuned to improve muzzle velocity and reduce wind resistance.

[hollow ridge]

I wonder if with an improvement of velocity would come an improvement of effective range. At the moment it's 75m which results in reliable double lung shots on animals like elk inside about 80m give or take. I won't get my hopes up though seeming that the zero distances have not been improved

[undone swift]

So far in early access I've only seen the .30-30 used effectively on beavers and pronghorn ... Anything else was not good ...

[hollow ridge]

from my testing I did yesterday, at 80m or less the Withlock performed ok on Whitetail where double lung shots were common but it performed exceptionally poorly on elk sized game inside 80m with a double lung shot. Overall, a poor representation of its performance irl as it is before AR is released

[twin sage]

I think that I won't use the new mission weapon (Class 2-6) for Elk Hunting because, with this, I prefer to hunt it with a bow or other weapon inside the range of 80m.
The update note doesn't mention the new ammo 30-30 (3-7).

[hollow ridge]

ja as it is the .30-30 is completely irrelevant because of its severe range and class restriction, its quite unfortunate

[undone swift]

Increased muzzle velocity might make it better at range but zero distance is still hosed and of course the 2-6 class restrictions....

[twin sage]

I will use the new mission weapon for Elk Hunting when EW makes this new bullet (3-7).

The various .30-30 bullet types and their ballistic data.

[winged compass]

I'm going to buy the reserve bc I've been waiting for another snow reserve for 7yrs. As for the Outrider it was stated it was tweaked in the patch notes. I hope it covers Elk & Blk Bear but even if its not I'm still going to use it outside of the class lock. I'm still going to follow the masses here even after the release to get this fixed if EW hasn't already, but I doubt it given what's been previewed thus far. This further applies to the •7.62x35: (2-5)[6]) •270: (3-7) •6.5mm (3-7)

But I hate to admit it aside from the Outrider & the seriously botched Mule Deer G1, the patch notes are heavy & laid out rather thick this time around. They did a ton of reworks, animations, & I noticed predator behaviors were touched along with gear fixes. As much as I love to see heavy fixes & features added I'm hoping it doesn't release a monster bug 🤞😅🤞

[coarse pivot]

Yeah, it seriously bugs me how .30-30 is still being treated as such a weak cartridge when it absolutely isn't. Oh well, as long as we remain vocal and keep on top of criticisms regarding the Whitlock and Laperriere I'm sure it'll be noticed in time

[polar hull]

We will see...

[coarse pivot]

we saw it in action already from various streamers and it's not looking good. still pretty rough for taking on the animals that the cartridge is very effective at handling irl

[polar hull]

Mhh, that's sad.

Haven't had that much time to follow the streamers. Just watched Pantoffelplays (a german cotw streamer) and he quite liked it. I still hope for the best. Hope dies last.

[tender ibex]

Speaking from personal experience, Germans have no idea what a .30-30 is actually capable of

[polar hull]

You might be right. The .30-30 is not very wide spread here. Many hunters I know prefer bolt actions and semi-autos in 8x57 IS, .222, .30-06, or .308. These are the most common rounds in my personal network. None of the hunters I know here in germany hunts with a lever action. Don't want so say, that they were bad - they are just not as common over here. In fact, no one in my wide spread network owns one of those.

I just prefer the style of pantoffel or shfty (german cotw youtubers) compared to the style of e.g. ladylegendxo and others, who tend to always speak in superlatives. I know, this way of talking is some kind of american thing, but I prefer a a different style of content presentation and talking. 😅 Language is no issue for me - but the style of presentation and talking is 😅

And yes... we germans are... different 🤣 🤣 🤣

[tender ibex]

More straightforward, not a bad thing mostly but there's times. . .

Anyway yes, I've hunted with a German, I've been lectured about how the .30-30 was too weak for large game and how he expected better of me. I've also seen the look on his face when I dropped the bull elk he was aiming at with my "weak and inaccurate" .30-30 that punched a ragged hole in the far side of that elk at 200yds

[mint spade]

Effective as well as 7.62x39? On pronghorn.

[tender ibex]

#1384351362342453298

I went on a bit of a rant but I'd appreciate the support

[mint spade]

Next try will be only with a new dlc. But I don't think that we will find there 30-30 or 45-70. Newbies like new rifles experienced want old rifles. And devs like money. This is only game. There will be others.

[coarse pivot]

a .30-30 lever action rifle isn't inherently an "old rifle." There are more modern models in production today as we speak. People really need to get out of the headspace of lever action rifles being "old cowboy guns" bc they really aren't

[coarse pivot]

And even then, the "old rifles" function exceptionally well. I've said it multiple times and I'll keep saying it until EW gets the message, but there's a reason that the .30-30 Winchester cartridge was the go-to deer hunting cartridge in North America. It has killed more deer than any other cartridge, and still serves as a very effective medium-large game round.

idk where the misconception of "it's a weak cartridge" came from bc it genuinely has never been that

[worthy hull]

when people got stupid and decided belted magnums and supercharged .30 to .40 cals were the minimum standard in the 1980s

[mint spade]

Old base rifles. The new 30-30 is only a new skin for old ammo. Sights are well but not for old zero points.

[hollow ridge]

Besides the fact that you have karamojo bell with his .257 Roberts and military surplus ammo making quick work of elephant

Let alone the people before him doing it with black powder muzzle loaders shooting pure lead ammo

[undone swift]

European bias maybe ??? The history of the .30-30 is not really known in Europe ... Still no excuse for overall unrealistic weapons .....

[hollow ridge]

ok here's the first impressions and first bit I've tested so far with the new .30-30 @tender ibex

The first three photos are of the performance of the .30-30 out of the Whitlock from before the update, as you can see, not good

The next three are the performance of the Lapierre, defiantly better thanks to the increased muzzle velocity, but still not quite on the level of the .30-30 irl (to be fair no weapon performs accurately in game so its 'better' because at least they're consistent)

I still need to test on Black-bear (which got a massive sound change by the way) and on Whitetail, my game just crashed after the Elk so i thought I'd put through the facts so long

[tender ibex]

Not too out of line with my caribou test with the old Whitlock but idk if it's enough to get me to reinstall. We'll see if they make any meaningful changes in a few weeks. I think I'm still on my hiatus until something comes out of this

It did just change the ammo in store didn't it?

[undone swift]

Thanks for the testing so far .... I'm looking forward to your further findings

[undone swift]

Also what kind of terrain clipping is this ... Does the game think it's in deep snow ???? ... Is this a bug?

[hollow ridge]

No, just seems to be a sub-surface change so far

[hollow ridge]

ja no story of my life since 2017 lol

[tender ibex]

Honestly, that makes the cartridges around the Outrider even more insulting

[hollow ridge]

Ok so black bear. Photos 1&2 are pre update and 3&4 are post update There's a slight difference in observed in penetration on black bear. I really struggled to get a 100m shot for the post-update test so 84m will have to do. SO definitely there's increased penetration retention down range in the .30-30

Here I also have some whitetail, Photo 1 is Pre-update, 2&3 are post update.

The sheer penetration seems to have gone up decently at 30m, its also decent by CotW standards at 150m broadside

[undone swift]

again just too little difference .... I normally shoot from 250 yrds out ... using the 7mm and .375 .... Even the .243 zeros out to 300m .... ☹️

[hollow ridge]

Here's a direct comparison to .270, the .270 beats the .30-30 in expansion (despite being a smaller diameter, and lighter bullet)

[undone swift]

never understood why the hollow points were more expensive than the soft points .... seems like pen was always the most desirable attribute???

[hollow ridge]

So you guys should obviously draw your own conclusions based on this info, assuming its sufficient info and testing, or do your own research if you're buying the DLC
My personal conclusion is that EW has rightfully increased the performance of .30-30 (by CotW standards) but dropped the ball by not raising the zero distances for the .30-30 and not increasing the class capability to at least be a 3-7. They've essentially made a slight change that is noticeable but not really meaningful to most. Judging by EW's logic, the .30-30 should be a class 3-7 minimum but could handle 3-8 because of its similarity to .270 in terms of terminal ballistics at their respective effective ranges.
I personally think it would be very beneficial for the games longevity if EW really properly revised their ballistics and classes

[hollow ridge]

One last thing, I did a quick comparison between the .270 and .30-30 in which the penetration of the .30-30 and the .270 were more or less on par at 150m, but the .30-30's seems to have been more at 30m. The .270 still far outperformed the .30-30 because the time-to-kill after the shot was significantly quicker with the .270 than with the .30-30

I think more definitive testing could help but Im not in the mood for that tbh. Anyways, the .270 Polymer tips only have 1 unit more expansion than the .30-30 so the discrepancy in time-to-kill is odd to me, especially when comparing .30-06 and .308 which are near identical on paper and in practice in game

[coarse pivot]

i know this is pretty close for range, but honestly this was kinda impressive considering how much it struggled before

Though I'm still not particularly happy with where it's at either

[ivory frost]

it does feel a little better but can certainly be improved, along with most weapons honestly.

[coarse pivot]

good feeling's gone :) (the tracking marker at the vital blood says 130 meters)

[worthy hull]

they literally

only

have to change

5

number values

Actually no just 4; with the velocity and drag tweaks all the gotta do is change the zeroing to 75, 150, 250, and make the expansion more than 4 on both rounds

[hollow ridge]

that distance tracking for such deep penetration is insane

[coarse pivot]

I have heard that the listed tracking distance isn't accurate, which is why I put a marker down on the blood

[worthy hull]

and from 7m at that; i've seen videos and photos of muleys shot that close with a .30-30 IRL, even a 370lb stud buck dropped like a sack of stons for that exact shot

[hollow ridge]

Its genuinely ridiculous
EW really needs to reconsider their terminal balistics

[worthy hull]

of all the guns in game i'd say .30-30, .45-70, and 6.5 have been done the dirtiest

very few things are even close to accurate and most are done poorly but still usable

then you got the three amigos of getting f'd over

[hollow ridge]

I think .223 is a good runner-up

But seriously, the .30-30, .45-70 and 6.5 really suffer the worst of it

[tender ibex]

That velocity change made it look better, but that's all. It looks like it works better and still didn't do anything for the actual performance

[worthy hull]

might kill slightly faster at range; expansion buff is what's needed

[tender ibex]

I've had at least half a dozen people tell me how much this gun sucks. A lot of them have pictures proving it

[worthy hull]

yeah it's depressing

[tender ibex]

Surprised there's not a complaints thread

[worthy hull]

ppl got a whole lot more mad abt the muley G1s so ig it makes sense

[coarse pivot]

this was a heart shot AND SHE RAN FOR A FEW SECONDS (she basically circled the immediate area for a few seconds before dropping)

[worthy hull]

you heartshot a muley IRL with a fucken .30-30 itd drop like brick

[tender ibex]

. . .anybody else wanna make that thread? I don't have pictures for comparisons but I would if anyone cared to add theirs

[tender ibex]

Elk drop if you hit the heart, I do mean drop. It just kinda crumples down

[worthy hull]

im boutta make a video library of everything I hunt with my .30-30 the next two years and send them in a compressed ZIP folder to EW asking them why theyre dumb

[tender ibex]

People are so pi*sed about the mule deer they haven't noticed how crappy the reserve rifle is. I wonder how long it'll take before EW understands how big an impact guns have on this game

[undone swift]

the .30-30 has been f'ed up for so long most don't even care .... As long as they have their AR's and AK's to grind with .... They may use it once or twice and then never pick it up again ....

[hollow ridge]

Nailed this moose with, he didn't go far but he ran for a solid 15 seconds I'd say

[undone swift]

A heart shot at 50m he shouldn't have moved at all .... if you had been using a bow he would have dropped like a rock ...

[tender ibex]

Hate that this is true

[hollow ridge]

a bow or a handgun...absolute bs

[tender ibex]

OK.

3-7/8
Higher expansion
75m, 150m, 250m zero distance
And just maybe, a new ammo type

Is this really too much to ask?

[hollow ridge]

That's the very minimum I expect of EW honestly. They do a great job with most things except balitiscs and the tiny details in firearms handling & operations

[ivory frost]

New ammo would be the best way to go for it, just keep the current ammo as “managed recoil” and make a new one with better stats all around.

[tender ibex]

I thought they did. That's why I was so pis*ed when they showed it was exactly the same. The two new looking cartridges in the sled around the rifle made me think they'd made a real change but apparently it was just decorations for nothing

[long junco]

I love my 30-30. Was the first rifle I ever fired and grew up with. It is lacking in this game. My idea here,and I'm not bashing the EW team before people think that. Quite a while ago they posted a vid of how the entire team went to a gun range. The team admitted most have never even shot a gun before amd they were amazed at firing weapons that they put in the game. I think what they should do is have some kind of ballistics training or seminar lile they did with the gun range field trip they took. Or something like that to help them see all the different ammo types,how they perform,and their characteristics in real life. Then shoot the weapons with the different ammo. Idk,just and idea how they can do a better job and improve things cause I'm guessing their "ammo class/system" is here to stay.

[rocky shoal]

the 30-30 definitely deserves a power buff and should at least be able to take Class 7 species.

[tender ibex]

If they aren't going to fix the .30-30, if that's too much work for them to get it right. I want them to change it to a .35 Remington.

200gr bullets with 1300 ftlbs at 300 yards and only 20 inches means it would be 4-8 if they did it right. 4-8 is boring af but I'll take a working proper big game rifle over another pea shooter they failed to change

[astral wraith]

Somehow not 100% quick kill

[long junco]

That's crazy

[astral wraith]

Double lung and liver from 7m away on a wolf. 30-30 is still buns

[hollow ridge]

Similar experience from 155m, double lung & liver with only a 58% quick kill rate is so silly

[astral wraith]

Nuts

[tender ibex]

Still needs a buff in the worst kind of way

[coarse pivot]

It's so weird that it's actually somewhat capable of punching into tissue now, but it can't even drop stuff quickly unless you hit the heart

[worthy hull]

lacks a damage modifier and pen/expansion it seems

[tender ibex]

Have you noticed how close the stats are between. 270 and .30-30? It's weirdly close but very different in game play

[mint spade]

Suspect that devs will never rework or buff the 30-30. Because they gave us SKS and maybe will give us other rifles. 35 rem or 350 legend.

[coarse pivot]

It's not impossible, they did technically buff it recently after all (even if it definitely wasn't enough)

[worthy hull]

Id love for it to actually be true to life instead of the most horribly slaughtered cartridge in the game

[mint spade]

Signs of this "technically buff" have to seek under the microscope.

[coarse pivot]

Just look at the penetration. It punches through tissue much better than before (here it hits a leg bone at an angle and still goes through both lungs + heart)

The big issue now is that aside from heart shots, it doesn't actually deal enough damage

[worthy hull]

if they would just... yknow.... ALTER TWO NUMBER VALUES FOR THE AMMO

itd work great

[coarse pivot]

I'd honestly be able to tolerate it being 2-6 instead of 3-7 if it at least got a substantial damage buff

Though ofc I do still want its class range adjusted, I'm not saying it shouldn't lol

[worthy hull]

same; would love 3-8 and a buff

[coarse pivot]

Ah yeah I forgot people actually use it for moose hunting, 3-8 would be better (same with the Mosin, I'm pretty sure the cartridge it fires sees some use in moose hunting too. I know it can be used for moose in Classic)

[tender ibex]

Dear God please, please, PLEASE LET THIS BE A THING

[hollow ridge]

Yup, I tested them in similar circumstances and the .270 outright outperformed the .30-30 with everything except penetration at...a whopping 30m 😐

[tender ibex]

Which is miserable

[hollow ridge]

I think EW should give the lever rifles the Gandahare/muzzle loader treatment

That being, kind of limited range compared to other calibers but good penetration and expansion

[tender ibex]

Youve just reminded me that the lever actions have a lower max zero range than the muzzleloaders. . .

[hollow ridge]

It's actually ridiculous
What's also wierd is the inline .50 has a lower Zero range but superior projectiles and the effective range on the ammo still says 200m

[hollow ridge]

at least .30-30 achieves "pass through" on springbok

[tender ibex]

I submitted a ticket with ballistics tables, I hope they actually do something about it

[mint spade]

Sorry but this distance for bow not for rifle.

[hollow ridge]

hopefully
I think we need to just keep up the presence/pressure

[tender ibex]

I'll start doing it once a week, maybe twice

[coarse pivot]

1: perfectly acceptable distance for a rifle, sometimes hunts happen up close
2: that actually makes it worse that unless you hit the heart, the animal doesn't drop quickly, bc I've also shot non-heart at that distance and had to go track the animal down

Especially when you consider that EW tried to crunch lever action rifles down into "close range only" for some reason, when irl they're a competitive option for the distances most people are shooting at, only not doing well at really long distances

[tender ibex]

The max effective range of the rifle ammo, both .30-30 and. 45-70, are 82.02 yards.

The hudzik and curman, two muzzleloaders with much slower projectiles, have an effective range of 218.72 yards. And better ammunition. In both of them.

[hollow ridge]

I've come to realise 2 main things with reference to CotW's ammunition.
• 1: A lot of the photos for the ammo in store just looks so off. Most of the newer stuff looks good, but I mean...I just look at .45-70, .30-06, .303 and 6.5, none of them look remotely similar to how actual rounds for those calibers look irl

•2: CotW's ballistics and class designation makes no damn sense. The 9.3×74R, .303 British and 7mm Magnum all have identical stats on paper but there's a somewhat marginal difference in performance from each at 150m (all of their effective ranges)
The wird thing is this, they all perform damn near the same in paper and practice in game yet for some reason, the .303 is a C4-C8, the 7mm is a C4-C9 and the 9.3×74R is a C5-C9....who looked at this and said "ja this makes perfect logical sense" ?

I don't want to detract form other aspects of the game like how amazing animals models are and how there's been a lot of good in recent updates for the game, but there's a bit of a glaring issue with reference to balitics, both external and terminal, as well as weapon classes themselves

[tender ibex]

Exactly why I'm saying they need to take a break from Great Ones and just do a solid map with a good reserve weapon, decent story, and a well thought out weapon Overhaul.

Honestly they could do a bigger than usual weapon pack and drop it with a ballistics rework and make a good deal of money. Get new weapons for Existing calibers like a lever action .270 or a single shot. 30-06.

[hollow ridge]

Honestly that'd be amazing, I'd be happy to pay for that one

[mint spade]

I'm not a long shot fan. But 100-150m it's easy for 30-30 irl. In another side the game has a lot of rifles capable drop animals 3-6 class on the spot without a hart shot. All of them no much better then 30-30 IRL on 100-200m. Sorry me, but I don't understand this attempts. Arguing to ourself that the devs did something. They did nothing except a new skin (rifle). We shouldn't reassure ourselves. This is the devs problem.

[coarse pivot]

I think you're missing my point. It's not good, I'm not arguing that it is. It's just that there is definitely some level of improvement since what I showed is more than the .30-30 cartridge could do before the update

[mint spade]

But this level improvement so small that we need to search it. Like after the visit of a bad dentist. I'm don't attack I'm just offended. Like many of us. Who like hunt not grind.

[coarse pivot]

That's what I've been saying the whole time

[stuck field]

No my beaver gun

[ivory frost]

It definitely needs an expansion buff since i think that is what does damage. The penetration does still seem a bit lower than it should at the little bit longer ranges, generally 125-200m which the .30-30 should be an easier 200m rifle.

[tender ibex]

Someone, please.

Give me a logical explanation for why they are different classes

[stuck field]

Bc the 270 is a bigger caliber made for long range when the 30-30 is not

[tender ibex]

It's a .30-06 case necked down to accept a .277 caliber bullet for lighter recoil. Range wasn't considered because the .30-06 was better for that to start with.

Also needs to be said, the render distance hasn't changed from 450m.

The vast majority of shots are 300m or under in game. They should be the same class range of 3-8 because that's how people use them irl. Range shouldn't even be considered since there's other differences between them

[stuck field]

True

[hollow ridge]

.270 Win is most certainly not a bigger caliber, though it is better at longer range simply because of the parent case and the spitzer bullets it utilizes, but .270 Win is .277 of an inch in diameter where as .30-30 is .308 of an inch so .30-30 is the bigger caliber

[stuck field]

It is bigger than a 30-30

[hollow ridge]

how is it a bigger caliber if its a smaller diameter ?
Caliber refers to diameter not length of the case

[stuck field]

Im aware the 270 has more grain bc its made for longer range then the 3030

[hollow ridge]

Also interestingly enough .30-30 works better from further on bison than moose somehow

[worthy hull]

cause moose are massively overbuffed, was done to forcibly make grinding them more difficult and slower several years ago when their G1 was added

[tender ibex]

I mean, the devs didn't even check Wikipedia for this

[worthy hull]

im beginning to think its not ignorance its malicious

no way they didnt see this, prolly did and just decided to make .30-30 crap anyways

[tender ibex]

There is bias against it in Europe. Not sure why, but they seem to misunderstand it's actual utility

[worthy hull]

Europe is a place where people think .30-30 is bad but the English dont blink an eye at using .22 singleshots to basically torture roe deer to death

Then again sadism and apathy seem to just be symptomatic of being English so it tracks ig

[tender ibex]

This Wikipedia article is kinda basic and they list some pretty weak cartridges tbh. And none of them are particularly optimized loads. Currently my go to rifle loves a 170gr partition over 46 grains of hodgdon 4895. It's running 2570-2600 fps and flies pretty flat too

[worthy hull]

thats pretty damn fast ngl

[tender ibex]

Sure knocks down elk tho, it's got some kick but I can drop a bull elk at 300 yards with a 7 pound rifle with a 20" barrel. It's a monster in the pine woods here

[worthy hull]

.30-30 supremacy 🙌

[tender ibex]

I had a friend who grew up out here with a 7mm magnum try it out and he looked absolutely pis*ed about it.

"It's compact, light, and doesn't rattle my teeth on every shot, I hate it. I hate you for showing me this thing. The only thing my 7mm does that this thing can't is hit something at 500 yards."

[hollow ridge]

@tender ibex have you seen how 10mm compares to .30-30 ?

[worthy hull]

Lmao, he got enlightened in the ways of .30-30

[tender ibex]

I mean yeah, but we hunt in a wooded valley. I use my .30-30 more than my .300 win mag. Still haven't seen a big difference between it and my 300 mag inside 250 or so

[tender ibex]

No? Why would you compare them? Is it bad?

[worthy hull]

significantly weaker to my understanding since its weaker than .44 mag and .30-30 has superior ballistics to .44 mag, IRL at least

I imagine ingame its stronger for no real reason

[tender ibex]

I'm convinced EW just hates lever actions and wants their fans to not play this game.

(I stopped playing RDR2 for this screenshot, I'm not happy about this)

[worthy hull]

pain

that's all ive got, just pain

[hollow ridge]

jaaaaa its pretty bad
Im on my way to do some practical tests to see if the only thing the .30-30 has on 10mm is zero distance

[tender ibex]

I hate this.

They did absolutely no research and just regurgitated the same useless ammo with absolutely no improvement and made us pay for it. That's EA level bs and needs to be called out

[worthy hull]

it makes me wanna play classic instead since its .30-30 is actually good

[tender ibex]

Wish I actually could, it's a better game

[hollow ridge]

Ok so the good news is that the 10mm performs awfully past 100m

Bad news is it performs pretty well inside 100m compared to .30-30

[tender ibex]

I'm sadly unsurprised by this

[kindred talon]

My dad grew up eating moose and elk in Northern Alberta that were hunted with a 270 and a 30-30, I should also add that when they made the area my paternal grandparents live a primitive (short range) weapons only area, my grandpa started using a 20 gauge with slugs to bring down moose and he apparently aimed right below the ear, figured I should share that bit regarding the capabilities of the 30-30 & 270 irl based on my own knowledge

[worthy hull]

Thanks for the added ballistic lore; my grandmother used her dad's Winchester 1894 in .30-30 to hunt whitetails and muleys in Wyoming in the 40s and 50s to feed her family. It worked a treat on those deer for sure.

[hollow ridge]

So I did some testing to see how the Moradi .44 Mag compares to the Laperriere, Withlock and Coachmate but Ill specifically focus on the Moradi and Laperriere.

I first wanted to see what the drop at range looked like for the different calibers.
At the Hirsch Shooting range using 200m targets and 150m zeroing on all the rifles with point of aim being on the bullseye, what I found was that the .30-30's had the least drop and the .44 the most.

In practice, I tested on fallow deer at 96m, 150m and 200m and the results were as unsurprising as they were depressing. At all ranges the .44 basically achieved pass through, the .30-30 at least managed to just get double lung, the depressing part though, is that the .44 dropped the deer at all ranges like a sack of rock where as the .30-30 achieved about 98% quick kill at 98m, 90% quick kill at 150m and 74% quick kill at 200m.

Anyway I think its proven beyond reasonable doubt that pistol cartridges are OP asf in game both on paper and in practice.

Ps. I'm pretty sure the Laperriere has a longer barrel than the Withlock, but their external and terminal ballistics are pretty much identical so I think barrel length doesn't affect ballistic performance in game, but rather, as I recall Jaxy saying, the weight of the rifle in game

[undone swift]

weight ??? what the F does weight have to do with it ? Other than maybe recoil ???

[tender ibex]

Yea, 10 pounds of recoil in a 7.5 pound .30-30. Huge difference it is

[polar hull]

As far as i know, there was a statement by Jaxy, saying the ballistics are affected by the barrel length. That was why I went for the longest barrels in the community weapon pack voting

[candid plaza]

i'll try a further shot sometime today

[coarse pivot]

try the same shot/distance without hitting the heart and see how long it takes for that moose to go down :>

(i have my qualms with how they balanced moose bc it's insane)

like, I'm no ballistics expert, but things like .30-06 should be more than capable of just barely puncturing a lung lmao

[candid plaza]

i grew up hunting moose with .30-30, .303 and .30-06 and No moose i ever shot walked off a broadside double lung shot from a .30-06

[coarse pivot]

Yeah 100%. I don't have any moose hunting experience myself, but from everything I've seen online and everyone I've spoken to, it lines up exactly with what you said

[candid plaza]

they are so Unrealistically tough in COTW that i Rarely hunt them (they are my favorite Animal to Hunt IRL which makes it sad)

[coarse pivot]

Yeah, I agree. I know moose are pretty tough, but it's like the ones in-game are made out of tungsten or something :P

[candid plaza]

the .30-30 should be Class 2-8 NGL, just make the soft points 4-8 buff them MASSIVELY increase the price and make the hollows 2-5 alongside a price Decrease for them

[worthy hull]

Every time ive seen a video of someone hunting moose with -06 they stiffen when they get hit and stumble a few yards then die.

when shot well at least.

[candid plaza]

how far would you say those shots were taken?

[coarse pivot]

i've seen a few where they ran a little bit after being shot at varying distances, but you could tell those moose weren't going very far

[worthy hull]

seem to be most successful between 150 and 300 yards

sometimes theyll run like 50 yards after getting slammed then pause looking for what the threat is then start swaying and pass out from blood loss

from what ive seen at least

[candid plaza]

most shots i took on them with my 30-06 were 100 metres or closer and it dropped em nine times out of ten

[worthy hull]

Nice; ive seen a few inside 100 with the bottleneck .30 cal cartridges but most of the sub-100s I saw were with things like .45-70 which folded them up like lawn chairs lmao

[candid plaza]

45-70 is great for moose at closer range but i wouldn't use it past 200 metres

[worthy hull]

The thing has such a massive arc to its trajectory its not really even ballistic drop anymore it's orbital arc 😂

That said inside 200 its basically a sledgehammer so tradeoffs I suppose

[candid plaza]

a friend let me use his to hunt black bears and i was FOLDING them

[worthy hull]

Theyre a popular brush gun choice for large plains game like Gemsbok, Greater Kudu, and Eland in Botswana because they absolutely fold large antelope even with rather medium recoil loads.

The hottest powder loads with 300gr jor heavier copper solids out of a modern levergun are actually rather popular for cape buffalo and sometimes hippo as well because their muzzle energy and terminal energy is not too far behind .375 H&H inside 100 yards.

It's kinda crazy what that old straightcase can do.

[candid plaza]

yep

[tender ibex]

Why doesn't it get class 7? How does this make any sense

[hollow ridge]

.30-06 is really strong, I've heard of dudes using mil-surp FMJ's for ivory hunting so it definitely has the power.
It sounds like a bs story but I've personally seen .30-06 with 220gr loads punch through 1 impala broadside and through another quartering towards the shooter so I think it's fair to say .30-06 packs a propper punch suitable for taking moose down

[mint spade]

The same thing. I'm don't hunt tanks (moose)

[undone swift]

Never hunted moose IRL .... but if they have been made tougher than they actually are that's kind of a side issue ... Not really a .30-30 issue but as someone said it's a problem for all weps .....

I just want to see EW make the .30-30 and all weps for that matter, as true to life as possible..... The rifles in particular in this game are arbitrary or bastardized in the name of "balance" ....

A new player who has used these weps IRL just cant pick their favorite and expect it to function as they are familiar with IRL .... And you cant even look at the stats provided in game and understand why ????

It seems like EW has purposefully hidden the stats because they know they don't make any sense ....

[astral wraith]

The idea of "weapon balance" became silly to me after the introduction of the .300AR. No hate towards people who enjoy the gun, but a semi auto 7-9 gun doesn't seem "balanced"

[tender ibex]

Weapon balance should have never been a thing, it died with dlc weapons getting added and they've frankenstein'd it since

[coarse pivot]

I don't even understand the need to balance weapons in a hunting sim (outside of making sure they aren't underpowered or dramatically overpowered).

I'd rather have a more realistic experience where animals react to cartridges similarly to how they do irl than for everything to feel like a video game where "this thing is uber strong, but this one that should also be strong is actually weak bc 'balancing' or something"

[tender ibex]

I don't want a .44 magnum that can kill drop a moose at 300 meters

I don't want a bow that punches through buffalo like a rail gun

I just want a .30-30 that can double lung mule deer at 200m and get full score on a black bear.

I'm so ridiculously tired of this half thought out COD reject balancing mess. I don't even want to play the game half the time because I know my favorite rifles either don't do the job or it'll screw up the score because some goofy dev doesn't know anything about hunting and won't bother trying to learn

[swift gust]

Some tend to vastly underestimate the capabilities of 45-70 because it’s a “cowboy gun”

[astral wraith]

You can kill hippos effectively with a 45-70 for crying out loud

[hollow ridge]

I've seen a guy take an Elephant with .45-70

[swift gust]

Surely if you can bowhunt giraffe they’d let me sling a 45-70 at it!

[tender ibex]

I absolutely hate that finish. . .but it does work

[coarse pivot]

the part that bugs me the most about the .30-30 is that it seems to be pretty consistent at puncturing both lungs in various animals, but it's like sticking a needle in them instead of a bullet that creates a large wound channel

Basically unless you hit the heart, the animal is gonna run for a while, which isn't even true with arrows and bolts. A .30-30 should absolutely be capable of quickly dropping pretty much anything in the 3-8 class range

And if they insist on giving it the identity of a "varmint rifle," they could treat one ammo type like the "Managed Recoil" loads, and then rework the other to be more efficient for medium and large game

[tender ibex]

They're just refusing to do anything but reuse the same garbage data. When the game originally released it was an alternative for the .243 instead of the .270 like should have been and they refuse to let go of the mistakes they made

[worthy hull]

would be better if it was a matte finish

[tender ibex]

In searching for that Pic I found a cursed rifle

[worthy hull]

am curious

[tender ibex]

Look close

[worthy hull]

Huxley

why is the scope mount on the barrel

and where did the forestock go

and wtf is that grip angle

[tender ibex]

It's a .458 Socom

Legitimately, I have no idea, I feel like that's a butchered mess of a rifle and should be the text book definition of what not to do for a scout rifle

[worthy hull]

the poor thing got slaughtered harder than a beef cow

[tender ibex]

Did you like the folding skeleton stock?

[worthy hull]

that caused me physical pain

[tender ibex]

It's an abomination.

This was on the same hunt as a .45-70 scout

[coarse pivot]

d r e a d

it feels like one of those images that gets worse the more you look at it lmao

[tender ibex]

This is a .45-70 scout. They can also do this with the .30-30. The same model as Askiy Ridge brought in

[candid plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-kill-fuego-matar-incendiar-gif-5307315

[swift gust]

The bullet itself is also wayyyy too slow. I used the new gun one time the other day, shot a whitetail 110yds away and it took like 3 seconds for that bullet to reach the deer : (

[tender ibex]

I might be insane, but i swear the rifle bullets are all slower than birdshot. You basically can't lead a bird but a walking deer and you have to aim three feet ahead at 50 yards

[coarse pivot]

YEAH omg, and followup shots are really difficult if you need to land one (meanwhile followup shots aren't uncommon on stuff like moose, elk, cape buffaloes, etc. irl)

[tender ibex]

It's weird, I've had deer dodge 40 yard shots by turning

[tender ibex]

Has any CC made a full review of the rifle yet?

[worthy hull]

not it seems they mostly dont use it lmfao

[tender ibex]

So I'm guessing that EW knew it was crappy and the CCs are not talking about it because they don't want to get on EW's list

[worthy hull]

probably lol

[tender ibex]

No surprise there I guess

[coarse pivot]

I've seen a few people use it for things, but it feels like it's mostly just "beaver gun" or "haha this will be a funny challenge" (mule deer running over 100 meters after both lunge were ruptured)

[worthy hull]

which sucks cause it perpetuates the myth that it's a weak gun IRL

[tender ibex]

Absolute garbage

[worthy hull]

ima kill every large game animal in North America with mine one day purely outta spite

[tender ibex]

It's legitimately bias. They see lever action rifles as made for TV cowboy guns and they're nit making any effort to make them even slightly realistic

[worthy hull]

and no i dont care if i gotta drop 80 grand for dall sheep in the Yukon im committed now

[tender ibex]

They uh. . .they don't taste as good as you'd hope

[worthy hull]

Ive heard Dall/Stone/Bighorn are basically earthier ram but actually render enough to eat unlike mutton

[tender ibex]

Bighorn is tougher ram. There's so much less fat in it that it gets dry super freaking fast.

[coarse pivot]

I see people online talking about bringing down bison with .30-30 as well lmao

[tender ibex]

I can vouch for a 2160 pound Angus bull with a 150gr bullet

[worthy hull]

gonna take it to botswana and shoot an Eland with it to spite the idiots

[coarse pivot]

"erm that's not enough gun, you need at least .300 Super Ultra Mega Magnum Express if you want a chance☝️🤓"

[tender ibex]

. . .I hate how close this is to what I heard from my neighbor when I took him out elk hunting the first time

[worthy hull]

God I hate people with magnumitis

they always look so shook when they learn that 350gr Underwoods in a .45-70 have comparable terminal performance to .375 H&H inside 100 yards

Teddy took the big .40 cal straightcases on safari with him for a reason

[worthy hull]

is this the German guy that you educated by folding an elk like an omelette at 200 yards with your Marlin .30-30 right in front of him lol

[coarse pivot]

I've definitely noticed an issue with magnumitis in CotW as well lol (cough cough .300 magnum and .338 magnum being exclusively for massive animals and nothing else)

[tender ibex]

Yup. . .

"I've seen the data, these cartridges aren't nearly strong enough for such an animal, I expected you to know this. You even shoot a .300 Winchester at the club."

"HOW DID IT PASS THROUGH?! WHY DID ID BREAK THE RIBS?"

UGH

[coarse pivot]

shoutout to 9.3x74mmR and .45-70 Govt being really weak in-game on anything above class 6-7 despite having a literal history of successfully taking down large and dangerous game

and then .300 Magnum is the ultra god-level bullet that is only ethical for bears, elk, moose, etc. (yet it only punches through one lung on a moose)

[tender ibex]

Moose are just op af, it's just a weird situation

[worthy hull]

it was popular as a market hunting gun when moose were still being mass killed for antler and hide in the 1910s, and those were the old weak black powder and early smokeless powder loads they were using on large bulls out to 150 yards

modern loads and bullets can double that effective range, maybe to 400 if you really wanted to push it and try your luck

[coarse pivot]

YEAH, I made a suggestion post that covers that (alongside 20 million other things about moose lol), it's really annoying lmao

[worthy hull]

the reversed brown bear calls 😭

[tender ibex]

I'm getting to the point where I'm looking at things like "if you have to shoot from 300 yards, then you have no skill in hunting. Your just shooting targets

[worthy hull]

the only partial exception ill grant is pronghorn in the open basin prairie down in NM; its literally an entirely flat field with zero cover and even when crawling it theyll spook at like 450 to 500

that said antelope decoys exist so its only part credit

I personally dont ever plan on shooting past 350 if i can help it but antelope are a bit of a wildcard like that

[tender ibex]

They gotta drink, I'm just sitting under a burlap blind

[worthy hull]

86% of all pronghorn in the world live within 5 miles of water and regularly visit it to stay hydrated

that makes for a pretty easy blind setup since theyll visit any open pond with a good field of view

[coarse pivot]

I agree with this for the most part. I get it if the environment requires it (like Honse mentioned regarding open prairies), or if that's your only window and you're 100% confident in your abilities as a shooter, but I feel like a big part of the hunt is the stalk and not just shooting animals

Even when I was hunting whitetails down in Texas, it felt more like hunting when I was on foot still-hunting and honing in how well I could avoid detection, rather than just sitting in a blind shooting over longer distances

[tender ibex]

Honestly, I use a .270 for pronghorn because it shoots flatter and it annoys me to have to Kentucky windage every shot. Honestly I don't like pronghorn enough to hunt them yearly.

Also, weirds me out that it smells like Fritos

[worthy hull]

eh, better than the musk deer can reek of imo lmao; plus its unnatural af so its identifiable lol

[tender ibex]

I don't want it to smell like food before I make it into food tho

[worthy hull]

i mean thats fair, it just doesnt bother me personally lol

[tender ibex]

For the record, I did shoot 2 pronghorn with my .30-30. I failed to think ahead and the exit hole was impossible to patch enough to tan a whole skin.

Was not happy.

[worthy hull]

i dont know if i would tan the skin on my first antelope tbh, im unsure

I mean i have the time to get the equipment and practice on other animals like yotes and tan the hide but yknow, idk if I'd do it

would def bleach the skull tho, buck or doe

[tender ibex]

I've been trapping/selling furs since I was like 12? I think. Anyway I sold the last 2 hides for 400$ each

[worthy hull]

sweet jesus

[tender ibex]

It's not that much really, I sold a cow elk hide rug for 1600$

[worthy hull]

Im a college student bruh thats a ton of money to me lmao

[tender ibex]

Find the right place to sell it and hides are great money. If you bag a deer you don't want taxidermied, call around to taxidermy shops and ask if they want one. Some shops will buy spare skins for repairs, most of the time they'll even pay for untreated skins

Oh uh, yeah if you take a buck just take the whole head in. If you tear the skin around the pedicles it'll be worth a little less. That's the part most hunters tear in skinning

[worthy hull]

noted; now ima have to find how many taxidermists operate in northern CO lmao

[tender ibex]

It's worth it, sometimes one skin will pay for a couple days of hunting. I've got piled some hides in the freezer and sold enough at once to buy a rifle

[worthy hull]

wow

[mint spade]

Devs did weak the 30-30. You don't happy about 3-4 class and buy Solokhin. But Solokhin don't have polimer tip and it gets you tired over time. Devs gave you 300 blackout. But it uncomfortable because not covers class 2. Devs gave you SKS.. Yes! What you need. Question. Hoy mutch money did you? They will never stop milking the balance.

[tender ibex]

Bump

[tender ibex]

Bump

[stone bough]

30-30 putting work in on elk

[meager cradle]

Bump

[ivory frost]

It’s pathetic. It should be getting a bit more penetration than that.

[real patrol]

It barely kills anything in class 5 or 6 in my experience

[astral wraith]

Which is weird, because at least for class 5 the penetration definitely feels better. But the actual kill time still sucks

[coarse pivot]

yeah, I'm still burned by watching a mule deer tank a double-lung broadside shot and run about 130 meters away before falling

[worthy hull]

this causes me emotional pain i cant lie

why EW 😭

[coarse pivot]

It's genuinely painful. I'd be able to tolerate a mulie running sub-20 meters from that kind of shot bc it's a game (and irl sometimes deer do just run a little while other times they instantly drop), but 100+??? come on

[worthy hull]

100+ shouldnt be the run distance at all

I mean it can happen IRL, ive seen a few videos where deer ran a couple hundred yard before piling up and later upon gutting it was seen that the bullet had blown up its heart so it had survived way longer than it shouldve, but those are very rare circumstances

EW tryna act like super deer are normal

[coarse pivot]

i think the furthest I've ever had a deer run irl was maybe 30-40ish meters, but that was all in a matter of mere seconds, it wasn't like I watched her disappear into the distance lol

and the bullet had ruptured both lungs and blew up her heart lol

[worthy hull]

adrenaline's a hell of a drug

crazy biology aside tho this is a symptom of all this game's guns being horribly undertuned

pain

with the possible exception of the gandhare rifle and the hudzik

[coarse pivot]

bullets are really slow so followup shots are basically a lottery, a lot of animals run further than they should, moose at all, .30-30, .45-70, and slugs are all laughably bad, etc.

trying to land a followup shot on a moose in-game like people do irl is a miserable experience

[worthy hull]

moose being made of tungsten makes my eyes twitch dawg

[coarse pivot]

like yeah, i get that moose are tough, on account of the whole "several-hundred kg animal," but they aren't bullet sponges, pretty much any .30 cal cartridge with the right bullet weight and proper shot placement will drop them pretty quickly

but then in-game if you dare use anything less than the "Big Magnum" cartridges then you're gonna have a crazy lengthy track and a 0% quick kill

[worthy hull]

I think its cause, like many people, the devs assume that because they can total a car in a direction collision that they can just magically absorb bullets, falling to realize that about any animal can completely total a car in the right circumstances and deer a 7th the size can completely wreck most midsize sedans and cause castastrophic radiator/axel/steering arm damage to most trucks and SUVs unless theyve got a heavy duty bullbar with a chassis cover/skidplate

[coarse pivot]

I still remember seeing the damage a deer did to a family member's truck several years ago. It was a fairly large pickup, but the entire front of the truck was just caved in and you couldn't even open the front door on the driver side, and the truck made sounds that trucks aren't supposed to make lol

ig this means we need to use .375 H&H Magnum (specifically loads intended for moose and buffaloes) and above for whitetails now, don't even consider using any of the cartridges that are commonly used for them :P

[worthy hull]

mfs got my game in the grips of Magnumitis

can't have sh!t in Detroit

[coarse pivot]

I wouldn't even be mad if they treated the hollow points like the "managed recoil" loads and left them as is if they buffed the soft points to be capable of dropping deer quickly without requiring you to use the in-game instakill button (poking the heart)

if they really wanna keep this niche of "close range" varmint gun, they could do that while also giving it the option to function with proper deer-hunting cartridges

[worthy hull]

also the brain not being auto-death regardless of caliber is the most BS crap ever lmfao

it takes a bison like 15 seconds to die from .22LR to the head

[coarse pivot]

if you shoot a moose in the brain with .300 magnum or .338 magnum (and even .375 in some instances) they run around before dying lol

[worthy hull]

sigh

[coarse pivot]

it basically treats it the same as a heart shot on them

[meager cradle]

This especially Pisses me off, MOOSE CAN'T TANK A BRAIN SHOT FROM A EVEN A .22 LR IRL EW

I really think the 30-30 Should be class 2-8, Hollows covering class 2-5 And softs covering class 4-8 With a 250 Metre max Zero

[rocky shoal]

yeah I agree, I feel like if you manage to hit a moose in the brain with any caliber it should go down pretty quickly

[meager cradle]

For Pete's sake you can Kill a Moose with Damm near Anything IRL

[rocky shoal]

yeah, all you really need is the right shot placement up close

[swift gust]

Still shocked it took 3-4 seconds for a bullet to reach a deer 100yds away with 30-30. Ridiculous.

[astral wraith]

EW knew we wanted the 30-30 updated, and they knew what we wanted with a 30-30 update. They actively chose NOT to do it and instead gave it slightly better penetration and no actual difference to kill time

[tender ibex]

It would have been much better received if it made an actual difference in how the gun and ammo worked. It's not even that big a change when you look at it for more than 2 seconds

[astral wraith]

It was just a weird decision to change the 30-30, but not y'know

Give it the changes the community has been asking for, for AGES.

[tender ibex]

It seems extremely tone Def for the community's requests

[astral wraith]

Indeed. They shouldn't have changed it at all if they weren't gonna give us the changes we wanted

[tender ibex]

Bump

[tender ibex]

Bump

[tender ibex]

Bump

[tender ibex]

Bump

[gleaming zealot]

uhmm .... please someone needs to fix this 😭

[tender ibex]

Yeesh

Well that ain't good

[gleaming zealot]

atleast the one number is now fixed

[dense thistle]

Not sure if it's been said, but I think making Coyotes class 3 and the ranger .243 also class 3-6 would go nice with this change. All of this together would solve a lot of issues.

[winged compass]

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea but I'd still prefer all calibers to have 2 different class range ammo options just like the Hudzik, Bows, & Shotguns. Given we already have 2 ammo types & no one really uses SP's bc of the PT's I would be fine with SP's/HP's cover the lower class Game & the PT's & HC's cover the Higher Class Game (authentically or close to it) as an easy fix. Though preferably I'd like an ammo expansion add-on as a Gear Pk Dlc.

[winged compass]

EW has been getting better with each passing year in terms of features & I'd like to see the game grow with more player utility options as well as more QOL features/mechanics to revitalize overall gameplay. I hate to admit it but the Narratives have been pretty dry & not that great these past 2yrs where I'm left to sandbox gameplay to stay interested which further applies to animal behaviors & method mechanics to hunt them. The same ole methods are getting old when its cookie cutter copy & paste. More ammo options, a Weapon Builder, Clothing, Scents, Decoys, & Game Behavioral Mechanics would add more depth.

[winged compass]

Related to the 30-30 Outrider I still believe as a reserve exclusive it should've been more unique with 2 ammo options 2-6 SPRN's & 3-7 Green PT's to cover both the old Whitlock Class Range & the new Modern ammo to be more or less in tune with the Game in AR like the Elk & Blk Bear.

[tender ibex]

I posted #1384918930799460515 with a few of these ideas in it but we really need a total update to actually improve the game

[winged compass]

Yea I supported the thread in tune with my ammo expansion thread. I truly feel we as players are past due for more utility & ofc more in-game QOL features more so than reskin content with tweaks. Overall I want to see more depth added like how it used to be esp. in the reserve (Story) narratives.

[tender ibex]

Yeah it would be great to get more options for all the rifles

[winged compass]

In all honesty thats what I feel the game lacks at the moment is player utility & animal mechanic features that adds more diversity between all the species. The E-Caller was huge but I had hoped we would've seen more decoys or tools in general over more waterfowl decoys & calls by now you know 😔 Let alone weapon features aside from optics. The cosmetics & reticles is a nice feature in terms of personal taste & minor utility as well as a fair boon to further utilize the in-game credit use which is something else the game lacks is additional economy use.

[tender ibex]

Bump

[ivory frost]

bump