Proposed animal and ammo class re-evaluation.

[teal edge]

The current ammo and animal classifications are better than it was in the early days of cotw and isn't terrible imo, but mistakes were made. I am a hunter irl and have experience with a vast variety of cartridges and their performance on various game animals so here's my take, feel free to include any of your thoughts. I am only listing the classes that I feel need changed, not the performance of the ammunition. Ammo changes are based on real world caliber minimums/restrictions and what is typically used and considered a good choice for sport hunting and not survival hunting (why I'm not making 243 class 8)

ANIMAL CLASS CHANGES

Class 3: Move Axis deer and Pronghorn to class 4
Class 6: Move Red Deer and Gemsbok to class 7
Class 7: Move Eurasian Brown bear to class 8
Class 9: Move European and Plains Bison to class 8

AMMO CLASS CHANGES

.270 3-8 from 4-8
.300 magnum 6-8 from 7-9
.303 british 3-8 from 4-8
.308 3-8 from 4-8
.338 magnum 6-9 from 7-9
.375 magnum 6-9 from 7-9
.45-70 3-8 from 4-9 (currently insufficient for class 9)
.450 3-7 from 4-7
.470 Nitro Express 8-9 from 9
6.5mm 3-7 from 4-8
7mm magnum 4-8 from 4-9
7.62x35* 2-6 from 3-6
9.3x74r 6-9 from 5-9

*.300 blackout, might have gotten the in game designation incorrect since the wiki doesn't list it and I'm not 100% sure of what it is in game.

EXPLANATIONS
Axis and Pronghorn are nearly identical in size to whitetail and anything someone would use for whitetail, is typically what would be used for these two.
Red Deer and Gemsbok are very similar in size and toughness to an American elk and are hunted many times with a 30 caliber magnum.
The Brown Bear and Grizzly are extremely close cousins, think whitetail and coues deer here in North America.
Both bison species are not as tough as the african cape buffalo or asiatic water buffalo and typically have a lower minimum caliber than the other class 9 animals.
Weapon explanations on request (It is getting long) Again please share your thoughts and opinions.

[small igloo]

I think in all honesty red deer are fine in class 6 as they are a slight step below elk in nearly every way

And instead of changing .45-70 in a way that makes the situation it’s currently in, benefit everyone from just making it accurate to IRL as it can quite easily be a 6-9 with the correct ammo modeled.

[austere grail]

Personally I’d be fine with red deer being a class 6 if the .375 change to a class 6-9 and the .300 changes to a 6-8. I should be able to hunt red deer with both of them.

[arctic crag]

.30-30 should be a minimum of 3-7 and preferably 3-8.

.45-70 should be a 6-9 too, it's only used for whitetail because it's a straight wall cartridge.

[teal edge]

.30-30 could be a class 3 minimum without issue, the only reason I’m leaving it out of class 8 is because class 8 is comprised of only moose grizz and crocs. Sure the .30-30 can and I’m willing to bet has killed many of these animals with the right bullet but man you’re playing with the bare minimum. I make these classifications from the perspective of sport hunting where the goal is to make a quick and clean kill with as few shots as possible (even though I think the 2 shot limit for full score is bs) not from the perspective of survival hunting where someone living some 40 miles from town needs to feed themselves and their family and the only gun or ammo they have is 30-30. The current ammo for the 45-70 feels very much like original black powder spec ammo which is nowhere near overkill on whitetail sized game and plenty of people use it in states where bottlenecks are legal but they want a short handy rifle for hunting in thick cover. If more powerful ammo is added that is similar if not a bit more powerful than the 375 I’d be perfectly fine with the 45-70 going to class 9 since some hot 500 grain loads come very close to 458 Winchester magnum, although these require a custom built lever gun or ruger no.1 and should never be fired in factory produced rifles. My load manual has 3 different categories of 45-70, one for black powder rifles, one for most current off the shelf lever guns, and one for custom rifles and ruger no.1s.

[teal edge]

If the current 7-9 guns are made to go down to class 6 I too would be happy with red deer staying class 6 and I do concede that they’re smaller than American elk generally, but usually the two are hunted with the same cartridges.

[austere grail]

Red Deer are a lot smaller than most Elk Subspecies (with the exception of Tule Elk, which they’re somewhat close in size to), but they’re still very tough animals and should be about as tough as an Elk.

[arctic crag]

Then change the .44 magnum to class 7 max. It's not a long range rifle and shouldn't be taking down animals past 150 or 200 yards, particularly not moose. The penetration is absolutely busted and nowhere near realistic.

And yes, I'd gladly use my .30-30 on moose because they really aren't as tough as the game makes them. Yes. There are better cartridges but a .44 magnum doesn't have the reach to do that at a safe distance

[teal edge]

I can’t disagree with ya in moose being tanks in game, but it seems more to me like everything in game is way too underpowered. As for the .44 mag not being good at distance, it’s kinda why the zeroing tops out at short range. Energy is important and yes 44 magnum is significantly less powerful than .30-30 in terms of energy, but makes up with bullet weight and being able to deliver excellent penetration on large animals. I’m not really sure what you mean by safe distance either, are you advocating for shooting at moose with a .30-30 from over 200 yards? Or does a 44 magnum rifle (which at 100 yards is really similar to a 6.5 inch handgun at the muzzle) not have any power past 50 yards?

[arctic crag]

150, and by safe distance I mean close enough to guarantee a vital hit and far enough to give you time to react if it charges you. 150y is the point where I'd never take a shot with a .44mag regardless, but I've killed an Angus bull at 210yds with my .30-30 (unintentionally) and that was a plain lung shot

[forest pine]

My biggest gripe would be Coyotes at C:2 when they should be C:3 & wolves C:6 when they should be C:5.

Ammo wise for ea calibers authentic game ranges I referenced from Hornady & others from Federal in another thread. https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1341880120440393840 a reference if needed.

[teal edge]

I gotcha, I’d say most moose are taken in that 100-150 yard range as with basically any North American game animal. Your experience with the bull and the .30-30 is a really good example that as you long as you have a good bullet and put it where it needs to be any cartridge will kill basically anything on this earth.

[teal edge]

Coyotes probably should be a class 3 since they are definitely tougher than the other furbearers and wolves could probably go to 4 since they’re pretty much just whitetail sized but 5 is good too and where they were. As for using ammo manufacturers references for what ammo/bullet is good for what, everyone out there uses a bit too broad of a range imo, and hornady is probably the worst one to listen to considering they’re recommending 6.5 creed more with an eldx for elk when virtually every elk guide hates it and for good reason. My stuff is based on my experiences with a vast array of cartridges and bullets (everything from .22lr to elephant guns) as well as legal minimums while also taking how the guns and ammo perform in game as is, which ain’t good tbh.

[forest pine]

I'm a Nosler user myself but Hornady was my reference to get my point across that calibers are applied to various game outside of EW's class locks. I too have alot of field use though my caliber range is limited due to my preferred game I hunt irl & cost esp. by todays marketing.

[zinc willow]

Funny enough the 30-30 & 270 kept my grandparents fed on moose and elk for many years in Northern Alberta

[arctic crag]

Both solid choices, put food on the table and keep the wolves of your farm. Literally

[zinc willow]

I don't recall my dad ever mentioning wolves being a problem despite his parents having (dairy) cattle, they had problems with coyotes though, and stray dogs that should have been kept on a shorter leash

[arctic crag]

I'm dealing with some half grown wolves trying to get at our dairy goats, cougars too.

Anyway, .30-30 is a rock solid general purpose rifle. It's just not good at class 2 animals unless you don't mind them having massive holes in the hide and a lot of meat wasted

[forest pine]

I did read that the original Alphas have been passing away and they were branching out into newer packs. If I recall from the reintroduction in 1995 their were 4 packs that were formed & monitored and over time they grew. I dont recall when exactly but I did hear a female Alpha passed away from the original wolves released back in Jan. 1995 due to wounds she received on a hunt.

[forest pine]

It doesn't surprise me fledglings are being naive. I cant imagine food being scarce in your area either. How many are their 3 to 4 of them?

[arctic crag]

Try 6 or 8. I've shot a couple already but they get replaced quickly

[forest pine]

if there's that many it sounds like a young pack thats unfortunate.

[arctic crag]

I don't care if they wanna run on my land I just want them off my farm