Ammo Reworks and New Bullet/Shotshell types (WITH SPREADSHEET)

[open saffron]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-aQ-C9Bg3QfzuUX81xwd5jyyM6wFpCzspxptWs6zWtM/edit?usp=sharing
(TLDR: New ammo types such as varmint rounds and shotshell types in .410 bore. Changes in class ranges to differ between bullet types in the same caliber used in order to add balancing, versatility, and realism. )
Relevance of Images: .410 slugs for use in medium game, varmint bullets offered for the .243, and an image for comparison of .308 to 30-06 to 300mag to convey that the class ranges should have a more gradual increase.

A common complaint among COTW players is the mismatch between real-world hunting practices and in-game weapon performance. For instance, raccoons are typically hunted with a .22 or shotguns with 6 or 4 shot, but the game doesn't reflect this. When defining weapon class ranges, three key factors should be considered: effective penetration, tissue damage, and the cartridge's ability to quickly kill animals within its class range.

Currently, some cartridges in the game are either overpowered for lower class ranges (e.g., .243 on class 2) or underpowered for higher class ranges (e.g., 30-30). One solution is to introduce new bullet types, each with distinct class ranges and effects. For example, splitting the .243’s class range into multiple bullet types based on grain weights would encourage players to use other cartridges like the .223 or .22-250 for smaller animals, as the .243 would no longer cover such a broad range (from class 2 to 6). It is kind of wild that the .243 covers over 400lbs of weight difference with one bullet type.

Additionally, the 30-30 could benefit from a penetration buff since its current performance is too weak for its upper classes. Another proposed change is adjusting larger calibers like the .470 NE which could realistically be used for classes lower than 9. .454 casull is also not realistic for ethic hunting of most class 9 animals but still could be used as a defense weapon against larger animals.

[vale cedar]

Flat out. .300win shouldn’t cover 9.

[open saffron]

Could be used against like a tiger or lion (ignoring legallity) but I am on the fence if they should even be class 9

[vale cedar]

And .30-30 could easily cover 7

[vale cedar]

I’m going to need you to think long and hard about whether the big cats shouldn’t be 9 or not

A 700lb murder kitty who are often hunted with elephant rifles that hold the mental capacity to hold VENGANCES shouldn’t be 9?

[open saffron]

I say this because the weight of them compared to other class 9s and animals that are class 8 like moose which are much heavier. A cats thorassic cavity is also not hard to get through at all. Which is why I believe .300win would have no problem with killing them just often aren't used due to legal reasons and larger bullets kill quicker in most instances. .375 really isn't that big of a step up from .300 mag (same case and like .067 inch difference in bullet diameter)

[vale cedar]

There is WAYYYY more powder behind .375 than .300WM

[open saffron]

Its a 3.5 grain difference, wouldn't consider that alot by any means

[open saffron]

I could see this (If it got a buff in game), in fact Ill change it on the spreadsheet

[open saffron]

You may be thinking of 375 weatherby magnum not H&H

[craggy ocean]

He's really not, there's an actual chasm of difference in them and the .375 is still used after a hundred years so I'm betting there's a good reason

[open saffron]

What chasm of a difference in case capacity, please tell me

[craggy ocean]

Case capacity is not a deciding factor in performance or we'd bu using .50bmg a lot more

[open saffron]

Yes it is, .50 AE isn't near as powerful as .50bmg

[craggy ocean]

Wild comparison

[open saffron]

Yes but you just stated that case capacity isn't a deciding factor in performance which it definitely is as it decides how much powder you can put behind a bullet.

[craggy ocean]

I said nothing about case capacity or powder, I said the .375 H&H is much more powerful than a .300 Win Mag. It is.

Higher caliber, heavier bullets at moderate velocity do very very well in terminal performance. The .300 has high capacity but there's only so much weight a .308" bullet can carry.

Yes, you absolutely can kill a lion or a tiger with a .300wm or a .270 for that matter. But there's no decently smart PH dumb enough to let you try. You don't use a big bore because that's the only thing that works, you use them so no one else dies if you mess it up

[vale cedar]

Ain’t much worse than a lurking wounded big cat. Atleast lions roar giving you a general idea of where they’re at. Leopards and tigers remain silent.

[craggy ocean]

Honestly, the ones you can't see are always the bigger issue

[open saffron]

It’s not MUCH but it’s enough to tell the difference over multiple kills

[open saffron]

@craggy ocean Just for numbers sense so you know Im not pulling it out my arse, .375H&H with a 300gr bullet has 3678 foot pounds of energy at 50 yds, 300win mag (with a 220gr bullet) has 3404 foot pounds of energy at 50 yds. This is only an 8% increase at energy at 50 yards.

Hard to argue with facts, and frontal diameter is only a minute part of the damage a bullet does.

[craggy ocean]

Numbers don't tell you what happens in the animal, grain weight is all well and good but bullet construction matters a 220gr OTM from isn't going to be able to do what a 270gr soft point can do.

I've met more than a few guys who could recite ballistic tables line for line who tell me my old .30-30's not good enough for for deer and they always end up slack jawed they see what it does inside the carcass

Honestly, even a ballistics gel test won't give you the whole picture

[open saffron]

I need somebody to go shoot some buffalos for me with 220gr OTM to see what it does. On one hand you are definitely right about soft points tending to open better, but there might just be enough flesh there for the OTM to not have a problem at all with expanding. Ill try and find some data on expansion comparing OTM out of 300 win to 375H&H soft points

Also yeah, 30-30 is plenty. Some 170 gr soft points are great within 200yds. Only real reason we've gone to poly tips is because it gives us a flatter trajectory and better energy retention at those longer ranges.

I agree that bullet construction is pretty vital to how your round performs. For example, I hunt with .300blk not because its the best or even better than most of what is out there but because I can. I see plently of people that shoot bullets designed for .308 through .300 blackout (like OTM with really thick jackets and long bullet construction) and act shocked when it doesn't expand. If you get a bullet designed for your cartridge and purpose you won't be disappointed. 125gr with quality bullets works magic with .300blk as long as you don't expect too much out of it range wise. Like with the 30-30 a crap ton of damage inside the carcass.

I think Hornady makes 220grain .30 cal soft points so that’s worth looking into as well

[craggy ocean]

OTMs are accurate but with my .300wm they seem to shatter, particularly on bone.

I love Hornady 220s though, they'll punch through an Angus bull from a .30-30 (one time test, never again)

(From a lever gun at least)

[open saffron]

Yeah, Ill eventually get into handloading, I wanna test some odd bullets in my .300blk. Such as round nose 220s. Might expand better than other non-cut subsonic bullets for .300 blk. I live in a state where subsonic is faster than most due to atmospheric conditions so I could also push the speed just a little. 220 round nose .300blk would be nasty for self defense

[signal heart]

They make noise until they stalk you, or until they want to ambush you like once you've shot them