Ammo: Authentic Class Expansion

[mortal narwhal]

TH: CotW has evolved with ea. passing year improving our experiences from visually stunning reserves to our huntable game being more lifelike, & our equipment like the Fox Pro.
Choosing a caliber & the appropriate ammo should be just as important when selecting our equipment for any hunt.

As a hunting game our difficulty should always be the hunt itself & our selected Quarry, but should never be our equipment. As hunters it's our responsibility to pack & bring the proper gear and ammo to every hunt. So, what I propose for EW moving forward since we don't have g/gr load options to hunt various game, expand game class ranges similar to the Hudzik, Bows, & Shotguns to our existing ammo as shown Below. This will add authenticity to our hunts & will allow players more ways & freedom to hunt game esp. those who have a fav. caliber(s) both in-game & IRL.

We buy weapon packs to add more calibers and weapon types to our arsenal not because of class difficulty. So, I sincerely hope Dev's & EW you will take this feedback into consideration in the future. If it helps please ask us or run a poll for class range with ? caliber(s). We will gladly reply to help out. Thank you again for all you've done for us from the beginning to date, we look fwd to continue to make TH:CotW great for all who love the genre.

Caliber. SP/HP PT/SPRN/HC
.223: 2-3 2-4
.243: 2-5 2-6
.270: 2-6 4-8
7mm Mag: 3-7 5-9
.338 Mag: 4-8 6-9
.30-30: 3-7 4-8
.45-70: 4-8 7-9
.22LR: 1 1-2
.470 Nitro Express: 7-9 7-9
7.62x54R: 3-7 x
.300 Mag: 4-8 5-9
.45(PCP): 1-3 2-5
.30-06: 3-7 4-8
6.5mm(6.5x55): 2-6 4-8
.50cal (Blkpwdr): 3-7 4-9
.303 British: 3-7 4-8
.22H: 1-2 1-3
.308: 2-6 4-8
.50cal (inline): 3-7 4-9
.22-250: 2-5 2-5
.44: 3-7 4-8
.577/450 BlkPwdr: 4-9 x
9.3x74R: 5-9 7-9
300blk: 2-5 2-5
450BM: 3-7 4-8
375H&H: 4-8 6-9

Pistol/Rifle
Caliber. SP/HP DGD
.45 Colt 2-5 5-6
10mm 2-5 6-8
.357 2-6 6-8
.454 3-7 7-9

Some are "9 because of Bison, 6 because of wolves." If EW changes Bison to 8 & Wolves to 4 adjustments will be made.

Pistol/Rifle: 1st column hunting / 2nd column DG defense referenced from "Hornady DGH": 9mm up to 500S&W / (Dangerous Game Defense Rounds) added 45colt 5-6 for balance, hogs & wolves.

•Ammo: Class Ranges - Sourced & Referenced from: https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/

EW's response: #1309326894684180560 message

[ocean ginkgo]

Thank the lord!!

As a slight suggestion you could have .300blk use a 140gr softpoint and a 220gr subsonic softpoint with both rounds having class ranges of 2-6 with their main difference being damage dropoff at range.

[oblique valve]

Suits me! I got no changes in mind for the list but I'll be happy to pay for this update if I have to.

[mortal narwhal]

200% agree. If our reserves and huntable game are being reworked to be authentic our ammo should be as well, esp. after the FoxPro update.

All I'm really suggesting is take existing ammo & make them more versatile just like the Hudzik, Bow, & Shotguns and the change isn't dramatic to those who currently use them as is but rather expand their use just like in RL. In the process hopefully other feedback requests such as buffs are considered & accounted for in this update as well many others.

[oblique valve]

#1309529559066214552

[tacit flower]

I love that you mention “class 9 because of bison” I would love them to be class 8 instead of 9

[mortal narwhal]

Idm if they are in 9 due to IRL class category "(if)" class 10 is added for Safari DG specifically bc there is a difference between bison, cape/water buffalo for ex. If I could change anything in the game it would be to replace the #'d classes and be Game Categories just like how Fish & Game define Huntable Game. Ammo would specify the Game Category its Rated for. Bc all they did was split up the categories to a 1-9 mechanic and class locked every caliber. This mechanic was fine at the start of the games launch but with all the existing weapons its an outdated mechanic and has no more selling points for "wpn pks" when all you need is 22H: (1-2) / 7.62x54R (3-7) / any 7-9 to hunt anything anywhere 😞 mechanically that's it. So why would you buy more pks? It's not bc of weapon class difficulty that ship sailed; its bc ppl want more calibers & weapon types to hunt various Game with. If Reserves, Huntable Game, & our equipment like the Foxpro are becoming authentic our calibers & ammo should as well. The difficulty should always be the hunt itself and the Game we're hunting. Not our tools & equipment.

[mortal narwhal]

In this case I'm not suggesting weapons or ammo stats to change. I'm only requesting entry lvl soft-points/hallow-points to cover lower #'d class game and Polymer-Tip/Soft Point Round Nose/Hard Cast cover higher lvl class game just like RL ammo a hunter buys for a hunt. The community can decide on buffs etc. For now, I just want our existing ammo to be versatile just like the bows, shotguns, & Hudzik where each option covers different class ranges more accurately with every caliber.

[mortal narwhal]

@oblique valveGot a reply from the support team they submitted it to the development team. No guarantees but it was sent.

[west delta]

This would be fire

[oblique valve]

That's something at least, we just gotta hope

[mortal narwhal]

Agreed we will wait & see though it'll likely take a yr or 2 before we see the changes but its something.

[near knot]

9.3x75R desperately needs more penetration. It really just depends on where the .375 places penetration wise and how fast it drops animals.

I’d have to mess around with it more on vurhonga (possibly a better angle) to see how it performs perfectly but they run… surprisingly far for the “European .375”

[mortal narwhal]

I really do hope we see this and additional feedback in an update, I really do 🙏

[mortal narwhal]

Glad to see @oblique valve poll https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1309529559066214552 & @near knot post https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1309652527389741127 was reviewed that makes 2-3 threads I've seen get looked at about our weapons & calibers 🤞 we see an update in the near future.

[mortal narwhal]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1310311941281026048

[oblique valve]

Was out hunting and came back to a bunch of pings, thanks for the heads up here

[mortal narwhal]

Indeed, also got a poll going as well. I think were starting to get folks seeing the issue here. We love the game dearly but calibers shouldn't effect what we hunt; "(ammo)" should be. If Ammo doesn't expand than calibers need to bc the Game we seek & hunt is and always should be the challenge factor; never should be our equipment.

[oblique valve]

Part of the issue is how many animals are in the game now, we have a hundred or so animals and 25 calibers/kinds of ammo to cover them all.

The ammo is even more handicapped by trying to make all of them different. They need to be organized into tiers and made equally effective as every ammo in the same tier. That way you can choose one or the other based on what you want to hunt with rather than what you have to use to get a medal

[mortal narwhal]

Well put

[mortal narwhal]

Its an easy solution, 2 ammo types on all calibers just like the Hudzik. No more bickering on what covers what & players have the freedom to choose what caliber they want to hunt with; & what they want to hunt as easily as choosing ammo option A, B, or Both. Benefits include less weapon swapping, less added weight, more versatility in gameplay, & we lose nothing.

[oblique valve]

Just realized you left .357 out of the list, out of a rifle it works great on black bears and cougars. I know some hound hunters who use carbines for it

[mortal narwhal]

I thought I accounted for all of the existing rifles but I'll include it

[oblique valve]

If it's meant to be just rifles it's good

[mortal narwhal]

no I'll consider handguns as well, Hornady has Dangerous Game Defense rounds from 9mm - 500S&W so it should open up class ranges as well. You might want to look at those for your ranch as a 2ndry there really nice rounds to keep on hand. Been thinking about it myself with our moose & bears in mind (IRL).

[mortal narwhal]

Pistol/Rifle
Caliber. SP/HP PT/SPRN/HC
.45 Colt 2-5 5-6
10mm 2-5 6-8
.357 2-6 6-8
.454 3-7 7-9

👆1st column hunting / 2nd column defense referenced from "Hornady DGH": 9mm up to 500S&W / (Dangerous Game Defense Rounds) added 45colt 5-6 for balance, hogs & wolves.

[oblique valve]

I've got Mossberg 590 for bigger problems and my wife is scary good with her 10mm and she's not scared of the 12ga either

[mortal narwhal]

I'll admit the pistol addition of the ammo would be a great opportunity for EW if predator behaviors were reworked and actually attack you. Tiger really raised the bar on that front.

So, so far for a huge update we have ammo class expansion, predator ai rework, Game to be reclassed, buffs, what else?

[oblique valve]

You ever seen a 5'2" woman dump 2 magazines from a glock into a 6x8 square in 3 seconds? I've smbeen a little scared of her since.

More variety in weapon models, lever actions, singles, semi-auto. Pretty much anything but bolt actions for a few packs

[mortal narwhal]

ever seen a 70yr old woman dump 2 moon clips in a 3in group in a minute? 😅 my grandmother

I agree small calibers, magnums, levers, slug bolts, blackpowders, (break & falling block singles) that should cover it. Semi's I'm afraid to see bc of the AR's however it would be nice to add more of the other semi's to even the field. We do have an M1 that I love so a few more wouldn't hurt esp if we got a BAR.

[oblique valve]

Remington model 8 wouldn't hurt my feelings, or one of the Remington semis in .350 or something

[mortal narwhal]

I think that would be fair

[oblique valve]

Then again, a small game single shot would be fun if they fixed a few furbearers

[mortal narwhal]

Bump - Why: No more bickering on caliber locks on what covers what. Players have the freedom to choose what caliber they want to hunt with; & what they want to hunt as easily as choosing ammo option A, B, or C: Both. Benefits include less weapon swapping, less added weight for gear/equipment, more versatility in gameplay, & we lose nothing & gain authenticity among our calibers.

[mortal narwhal]

& before I get asked yes 338win/338Lapua have 50lb-Dangerous Game rated ammo available IRL from Hornady.

[oblique valve]

Hey, one thing is bugging me. I actually think the .30-30 is better suited to 3-7 and 4-8, it's just massively destructive on anything smaller than coyotes. Basically if it's below 40 pounds or so the .30-30 is too much. The most common light bullet is still 150gr.

[mortal narwhal]

My bad, I adjusted it. I was looking at 150gr whitetail not the 140 or 160gr LEVERevolution 50-1500lbs

[oblique valve]

150gr tear apart raccoons and foxes, wish the devs had some real experience with it

[mortal narwhal]

Yea I juggled alot of class ranges from the current (EW) to authentic n I thought I adjusted them all when I pasted it from the draft. With that said idt I'm missing any now between rifles and pistols.

This would defn. benefit everyone across the board. I'll resubmit this with the pistols to add on to the predator factor.

[mortal narwhal]

I resubmitted the proposal & edited it with more depth.

[mortal narwhal]

First of all, thank you for taking the time to share such detailed and well-thought-out feedback. We truly appreciate your passion for theHunter: Call of the Wild and your insights on how the game has evolved over time. It’s clear that you care deeply about the authenticity and realism of the hunting experience, both in-game and as it relates to real-world hunting practices.

We agree that the proper selection of ammo is a crucial aspect of the hunt, and your proposal to expand the game’s ammo classifications for rifles and pistols is an intriguing one. Your suggestions to introduce more specific ammo options for different game classes, as well as the idea of including “Dangerous Game Defense” calibers for future predator AI behavior, would definitely add an extra layer of authenticity and strategy to gameplay. We can see how this would allow players more freedom and flexibility in their loadouts and hunting tactics, and it aligns with our goal to provide a dynamic and immersive hunting experience.

Your breakdown of specific calibers and their respective game class ranges is extremely helpful, and we’ll make sure to forward this information to the team for review as we continue to work on balancing and expanding the game. Additionally, we’ll take your points on equipment weight, weapon swapping, and sidearm usage into consideration as we explore new ways to enhance the player experience.

While we cannot guarantee that all of these changes will be implemented immediately, we value your contribution and will certainly consider your feedback in future updates. It’s players like you who help us shape the direction of the game, and we’re grateful for your ongoing support and commitment to making theHunter: Call of the Wild even better.

Thank you again for your thoughtful feedback, and we look forward to continuing this journey with you and the rest of the community. We’re excited about what’s to come and appreciate your dedication to the game and its future.

☝EW's response when I submitted it in more depth, I'll take it.

[oblique valve]

A step in the right direction and I'm happy for it

[mortal narwhal]

So am I. I wasn't expecting this, but it made my day.

[mortal narwhal]

Ammo: Authentic Class Expansion

[mortal narwhal]

Bump: Authentic Game Class Expansion to all Calibers w/ 2 ammo options just like the Hudzik, Shotgun, & Bows: 👆 Above #1309326894684180560 message
Caliber.
.223: (2-4)
.243: (2-6)
.270: (2-8)
7mm Mag: (3-9)
.338 Mag: (4-9)
.30-30: (3-8)
.45-70: (4-9)
.22LR: (1-2)
.470 Nitro Express: (7-9)
7.62x54R: (3-7)
.300 Mag: (4-9)
.45(PCP): (1-5)
.30-06: (3-8)
6.5mm(?): (2-7)
.50cal (Blkpwdr): (3-9)
.303 British: (3-8)
.22H: (1-3)
.308: (2-8)
.50cal (inline): (3-9)
.22-250: (2-5)
.44: (3-8)
.577/450 BlkPwdr: (4-9)
9.3x74R: (5-9)
300blk: (2-6)
450BM: (3-8)
375H&H: (4-9)

[mortal narwhal]

Bump: Authenticity over a single class lock range = more player freedom, less carry weight for more gear, less weapon swapping between game, everyone benefits. EW's Weapon Packs provide new calibers & weapon types with authentic game classes between both ammo options over single class locks that only cover some.

[urban dirge]

.223: (2-4)
.243: (2-6)
.270: (3-8)
7mm Mag: (4-9)
.338 Mag: (5-8)(55 pen)
.30-30: (3-8)
.45-70: (4-9)(48 pen)
.22LR: (1)
.470 NE: (7-9)
7.62x54r: (3-7)
.300 Mag: (5-9)(48 pen)
.30-06: (4-8)
6.5mm: (3-7)
.303 British: (4-8)
.22H: (1-3)
.308: (4-8)
.22-250: (2-5)
.44: (3-8)
9.3x74r: (5-9)(53 pen)
.300blk: (2-5)
.450BM: (3-7)
.375H&H: (5-9)(60 pen)

[mortal narwhal]

Above: •#1309326894684180560 message This list is referenced & verified from authentic IRL ammo from Hornady in case you're wondering.

[mortal narwhal]

I 100% agree to more buffs to calibers & encourage everyone to suggest it if they feel its currently not to an authentic standard. My hope is when the team revisits this they include as much feedback as possible for the update.

[mortal narwhal]

Bump

[rotund lagoon]

I think the .30-06 and .308 should have the same class range seeming that they're so so similar tbh, also think the 9.3x74R and .375 H&H should both be 4-9

[mortal narwhal]

I would've but the 30.06 has more energy than 308 with 110gr loads and I felt a 1 class difference would properly separate the 2. Based on my findings with the 9.3x74R I didn't find ammo for C:4 game however you bring up a valid point considering the 9.3x62 & 375H&H availability as well as the 30cal. Family

[gentle ravine]

no

[mortal narwhal]

No to what exactly?

[gentle ravine]

nothing

[mortal narwhal]

you sure if you have an opinion I'd like to hear it.

[rotund lagoon]

With the 9.3x74R I know its often said that the .375 H&H can do everything 9.3x74R can do but not the other way round. I know a PH who really loves the 9.3x74R and 9.3x62 and he has used and has clients that used a 9.3x74R on Impala for instance. Bummer is idk what weight the bullets were, i can look in some of my books though and see if theres anything about the 9.3x74R there

[mortal narwhal]

That would be helpful. I sourced 95% of the calibers we have from Hornady since it was the easiest for folks to see for themselves if they were in disbelief that they are properly & authentically rated. Other calibers like the 470NE for Ex. I sourced from Federal.

[rotund lagoon]

Ill see what i can do

on a different note, what do you think about changing the names and maybe icon images of ammo in game to be more descriptive ?

[mortal narwhal]

Well as is to make it less work for the Dev's I suggested SP's to cover the lower tier & PT's to cover Higher tier as I abbreviated above. If I had it my way it would be g/gr weights and if we had various ammo options like the bow & shotguns I'd keep it simple & color code PT's like the arrows are.

Bullet types would also be a nice touch to add an assortment by adding all Copper Bullets mixed with the options already available. They added steel shot to the 20ga I believe but I see no difference from the normal birdshot 😞

[rotund lagoon]

ok so we have similar ideas. Ideally id love to see an overhaul of the ammo system so we can get the different g/gr weights so we can see proper versatility of rifles. Would also be so cool if a variety of bullets could be added

[mortal narwhal]

Many of us agree on that topic. But in all honesty as EW's reply from my proposal I figured it would be easier for the dev's to make all calibers like the Hudzik using what we already have. Though if they took it further that would be grand. I sent them a more detailed proposal then shown here since text is limited, as well as the player benefits. I did take it further with further use of sidearms with future predator ai behaviors in mind. Bc I'm also pushing for Predators to act like predators & ways to hunt them. The community hates them otherwise bc they effect grinds and as a predator hunter I'm disappointed as they are now.

[rotund lagoon]

how does one send the developers a proposal for something ? Is it just this, the proposals we are making on this feedback channel or can one send something more directly ?

[mortal narwhal]

https://support.thehunter.com/hc/en-us?return_to=%2Fhc%2Frequests submit a Ticket to support. They'll review it and email a reply. They usually send the suggestion to the development team for review however its not guaranteed it will be applied. As Jaxy mentioned in the stream they have spread sheets with our ideas, or so they claim. But after seeing SP I do believe they are looking at them considering I seen multiple feedbacks answered at in the bundle. Minus the 300blk being 3-6 when it honestly should have been 2-5 given its actual use & game rated ammo. 450 is tolerable as a 4-7 but 3-7 would've been ideal, and the 375H&H was 6-9 over 7-9. But yea I'm pushing for authenticity over typical vg mechanics.

[rotund lagoon]

Thank you so much man. I made this whole 30 something page document on a map suggestion and didn't know what to do with it. Really appreciate it.

[mortal narwhal]

You can still post it in the feedback but if I recall if its too long it turns it into a document file to view it. & no problem. After all everyone has their own point of view and perspective & the game is community driven. We can make suggestions all day but its up to the Dev's if its right for their game & vision.

[rotund lagoon]

I think I'll be doing both in the new year

[mortal narwhal]

Thats why I get the cold shoulder when I say I hunt with calibers as I do IRL bc harvest medals mean nothing to me. I pretty much play the game as I would on a hunting trip. 1 main & 1 sidearm for my hunt. I find the concept carrying more than 2 rifles without a pack a bit of a stretch.

[rotund lagoon]

Lol im doing the exact same thing. Irl I go with a .30-06 or .375 H&H and shoot anything from impala to Eland with it so in game I have a loadout with my .375 only and one with the .308 bolt action (i prefer its looks and animations over the .30-06) and the .45 colt

[mortal narwhal]

Agree there though the M1 isn't bad I use it over the bolt model we have.

[rotund lagoon]

Yes M1 is definitely the better of the two. I just wish a offset scope or a scope with a mount that can be over the bolt. I personally dislike the look of the scope being so far forward on the M1

[rotund lagoon]

Im not sure how much of this would be of any real use. The pages are right out of Gregor Woods book "Rifles for Africa". Page 1 is basically all about the 9.3x62 but halfway though page 2 he says the 9.3x74R is balistically identical to the 9.3x62 mauser. He also mentions that it could be used to pick off small game such as dainty gazell. I've also provided some load data from Noslers website on both 9.3x62 and 9.3x74R with 250gr and 286gr loads

If you need anything else with reference to Gregor Woods book, just let me know

[mortal narwhal]

This helps, I have a Nosler & Hornady Manual but they're packed away atm. I wasn't aware Nosler had 9.3x74R data.

@rotund lagoon so I looked back and Hornady has the 285gr for Lrg-Dangerous or (300-1500lb/DG) for 9.3x74R. 9.3x62 has 250gr 50-300/300-1500lb: Med-Lrg game on the low end

[rotund lagoon]

ja i think it was in archives

[mortal narwhal]

so factory wise 9.3x74R is 5-9 while the 9.3x62 is 4-9 by factory standards however I'm not taking handloads in account when I did this thread due to skepticism on use.

[rotund lagoon]

For simplicity sake it might be better then to just take factory loads and run with that then I reckon

[mortal narwhal]

Excuse me 6-9 if classes were assigned properly

[mortal narwhal]

That was my thought to make it easier but the data does help as added info on the subject.

[mortal narwhal]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1273124990723555491 This is more of an Authentic listing to match with factory ammo. However I'm aware the Game in this list can be bigger than as I listed but its relative to avg.

[rotund lagoon]

either wat i would love to see the changes you list in this thread in game, i think it would really add to the game

[mortal narwhal]

I'm really pushing authenticity across the board & honestly between the authentic game classes & the 2 class ammo options. I highly doubt players would get upset, bc it doesn't affect current gameplay it just expands it. The only thing that could be predators. https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1316561266223087676

[rotund lagoon]

I think with a bit of creativity the predators changes could easily be added and be beneficial overall, I personally like the idea

[mortal narwhal]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[rotund lagoon]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[rotund lagoon]

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[mortal narwhal]

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[rotund lagoon]

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[rotund lagoon]

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[queen summit]

Can I see it?

I'd love to have a look

[rotund lagoon]

I just need to check that I still have it, I'll DM it to you when I find it

[queen summit]

Thx

[mortal narwhal]

Bump

[mortal narwhal]

30 🎉

[mortal narwhal]

^

[mortal narwhal]

Simple break down: All Rifle [R] & Pistol [P] Calibers
ex.
Hudzik Ball - [3-7]
R & P: Tier 1 Ammo - [SP/HP] = Lower Class Range

Hudzik Minie - [4-8]
R & P: Tier 2 Ammo - [PT/HC/SPRN] = Higher Class Range

Caliber Balance:
EW reworks & converts their (hidden in-game Caliber Dmg ratio) to joule/ft lb energy. This also fixes calibers to be rebalanced fairly. No more OP (Overpowered) & UP (Under powered) calibers.

Added QoL Feat.
• Joule/ft lb energy is displayed in the ammo stats
• Ammo has gram/grain weight - https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1341880120440393840
• Ammo Art is redesigned with in-game Branding - #1299503367579504782 message

These changes should be simple as adjusting a code set number, display text, & image swap. If it's a smart algorithm system, it should recalibrate to the adjusted changes updating the old. The predator behaviors will be more dynamic and will require animation changes & new code added with trigger conditions to trigger the behavior when the condition(s) have been met & will likely need tested to polish. So I'm not expecting this soon but would like to see it in the future for both longevity gameplay mechanics & added player utility as it relates to authentic hunting practices. As this aligns with EW's vision & direction for immersive gameplay.

For those who don't understand this allows you to hunt more game with any caliber authentically by simply choosing ammo option A or B accurately instead of both ammo options being the same class range. This allows players more utility use for ammo applications & caliber use in gameplay. For clarity I have the proposed reclassing above #1309326894684180560 message. The link attached to gram/grain weight is an updated ammo list with up-to-date ammo available anyone could purchase irl.

[mortal narwhal]

🙏 Update or Expand Rifle caliber ammo to have 2-3 different class ammo options to hunt various class game to match the Hudzik, Bows, & Shotguns. Theres no reason to limit every caliber to have 2 same class ammo options. Add more to player utility. If nothing else apply it with an update &/or as an Equipment/Gear Expansion. It would be a huge improvement if all Rifle calibers match the Hudzik's example at the bare minimum with 2 different game class ammo options. All rifle calibers should cover the lowest & highest authentic game range based on authentic ammo rated options. It would also be great to add to the UI ammo description to include grain/gram weights with the update just as the Arrows do.