Make the Vallgarda .375 classes 6-9

[eternal crest]

I'd been hoping that the .375 would be classed for 6-9 so that it could be used on wildebeest and the re-classed gemsbok.

That would help distinguish it from other ammo in the game, and would fit the real world reputation that .375 H&H has as the the one cartridge you'd bring to Africa if you could only choose one.

Please consider it, EW

[mystic yarrow]

I 2nd this suggestion and I'll add: 300blk - (2-5) or (2-6).

[tropic pasture]

More versatile more better

[hearty kraken]

I’m just curious, @mortal pike what is your opposition based in?

[edgy wadi]

From personal experience, a 375 is a good choice for wildebeest

[fervent yoke]

if the .375 becomes 6-9, then the .300 magnum and .338 should also be class 6-9

[mortal pike]

because I think the 7-9 classes are fine, what should be lowered is 300 to 6-9 but 375 is fine like that

[tropic pasture]

Good, they'd be closer to what people use them for irl

[hoary inlet]

Again the whole classes System should be abandoned. Reward Shot Placement and quick kill. Maybe meatdamage If an overpowered caliber is used. Like a .300 on a rabbit.

[mystic yarrow]

Well said the #'d class mechanic holds calibers hostage intentionally to force you to use them and those of us with yrs of experience are conflicted with it knowing this. The easiest fix for EW w/o having to do a new mechanic is simply rate softpoints as a lower class coverage & polymer tips to a higher class set. •300win: SP 4-8 / PT 6-9, 308win: SP 3-7 / PT 4-8, 375H&H SP 4-8, HC 6-9. This applied to all calibers would make more sense to us and allow players the freedom to hunt with what they want over literally having only the •"(22H, 7.62x54R, & any 7-9)" for every reserve.

[hearty kraken]

.300 shouldn’t even be in 9.

[mystic yarrow]

The issue is its been this way since launch and the player base would be furious if it was dropped to an 8, essentially the dmg has already been done in this case.

[hearty kraken]

That’s why the .375 exists

Pretty sure it loads more in the mag too but I’d have to check

[mystic yarrow]

Game can be flexible to move up/down a class but I still feel if ammo was split up like the hudzik, bow and shotguns are no one would complain. The calibers would still cover the original coverage it would just be more flexible for players giving them more ways to hunt over being forced to be class locked with the caliber.

[tropic pasture]

.375 and .300 are supposed to have the same number of cartridges in the mag I think.

But tbh, I just restarted my account, I'd need like 6k rifle score to unlock the .300 and I have actual hunts to go on and work to do on my farm aside from everything else. Thinking about it in free time, I might get 2k before the Bolt Pack release.

.375 is fully replacing the .300 for me. I prefer hunting under 200yds anyway and hate the iron sights on the .300.

If it can handle 6-9 that just makes it even more useful than it was at 7-9 and gives me a better reason to buy it.

[eternal crest]

I certainly wouldn't mind being able to take caribou with the Win Mag.

[tropic pasture]

Kinda wish the .300 was 5-9 so I could use it for mule deer like I do irl, wouldn't complain at the very least

[eternal crest]

Yeah, if it were only the Canning I think they could justify changing it by saying the main selling point of the Yukon DLC is the map. But with how many people likely bought the High Caliber pack just for the Arzyna, that ship has likely sailed.

[mystic yarrow]

I made a post defying the current mechanics bc they are outdated and since they keep adding authentic features I did so using the existing ammo. If you care to review it your welcome to. https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1309326894684180560

Regardless of selling point we buy packs to add to our arsenal & to add calibers it's that time the class locks are no longer the point to buy packs & I might be overstepping but our pack was a tipping point for me after seeing how they classed them. Esp. the 300blk 3-6 releasing the same day as a supposive class 1-2 reserve with a 10ga reward of all things, & I feel like 7-9 for the 375H&H is a bit dirty when the 9.3x74R is 5-9. The 450BM is another odd choice at 4-7?!

Which is why I said all existing calibers need to have options like the Hudzik, shotguns, & bows bc its authentic. The difficulty should be in the hunt itself and the quarry your after not our equipment.

Selling point doesn't matter if you use the mechanics with: 22H, 7.62x54R, & any 7-9. Unless a new 1-2 or 3-7 is introduced or a 1-3 than any 4-8 & upto 9 will pass the harvest checks. Wheres the fun if your hellbent on that you know? I honestly feel our weapons should have caliber/ammo variety allowing players freedom to hunt with thier fav. Caliber in-game as they do IRL n not be class locked.

[tropic pasture]

.300 CM 5-9
.388 ??? 6-9
.375 ??? 6-9

Covers the animals people use them for the most and doesn't require a change in the guns or ammo, just their class range.

I'd rather ditch classes altogether and use a system that rewards quick kill and vital shots and uses taxidermy cost as a balance.

.338 on a red deer, normal cost.
.338 on a rabbit, triple cost or trophy ruined popup

Either you use a reasonable caliber or the cash reward tanks and the tax cost soars

[mystic yarrow]

I believe a dmg cost for a mount is applied using EW's incorrect class ammo dont quote me. But I've said it before & I'll say it again 😂 ditch the #'d classes and list game in Fish & Game class categories. Ammo defines which category its rated for just like RL. You can still achieve a wide range with 2 ammo types from low grain to a high grain. It might get redone from scratch just like they did with the challenges and ai behaviors so its possible just unlikely bc the numbers is all ppl know.

[tropic pasture]

I'll be honest, current class system as is

The .300 and .338 are both replaced by the .375.

Neither if them have great iron sights, the tsurugi doesn't feel like a hunting rifle for me and I hate the sights and muzzlebrake on the .300.

The .375 has good iron sights, a classic styled stock, and covers the same ranges + I don't need 6k weapon score to unlock it.

For the way I prefer to play, the .375 is the perfect big game rifle to go in all my loadouts so I'll probably ignore every other 7-9 class rifle

[lone goblet]

Same, I feel it will replace the 300 & 338 for me

[mystic yarrow]

I got the blk barrel 300 and I love it in the walnut but I agree the other varient is hidious with the standalone break. But you are correct the 375H&H will most likely be the fav. for many except those who ar AR nuts & grinders. For me I'll like it equally either way bc Idc about the harvest checks. I use all my irl owned calibers as I do in game. I despise the #'d classes deeply. I'll likely use it on my bear hunts if I'm being honest.

[tropic pasture]

My style generally is pick an animal, get one rifle and one revolver. And treat it like a regular hunt.

I don't run, just follow tracks carefully and try to get within a hundred yards before taking a shot. I prefer iron sights, but I use scopes too. The .375 is perfect for this because the sights are great, butI wish we had a 1-6x32mm scope that didn't block so much of the screen like the Ascent scope does.

I love my Vortex Crossfire ii 1-4x24 but Trijicon's AccuPoint 1-6 would be great too

[mystic yarrow]

I sim hunt as well most of the time, it depends on my mood and what I feel like hunting but yea carrying 3-5 weapons just feels wrong to me. But I do like using the odin and the 1-4x with the german crosshairs

[tropic pasture]

I might carry a revolver and the .22 pistol aside from my rifle, but yeah generally it's a rifle and sidearm

[mystic yarrow]

•Rifle-Pistol •Bow-Pistol •Shotgun-Pistol •Rifle-Shotgun-Pistol. Depends on the day and I rotate calibers

[tropic pasture]

I try to generally do 7mm bolt and. 357 or .45 double action. But I swap the rifle for any of the 4-8 except the AR cuz I dislike the weird suppressed sound

[mystic yarrow]

If I'm farming I'll walk from point to point with whatever I have stock piles of ammo for just to get rid of it and cash grab as I go. Those days are usually f'it days 😓

I like the 22lr AR on my rabbit hunts

[tropic pasture]

If the .375 covered 6-9 it would be the only rifle I'd use, the revolver or .243 pistol would cover everything else I care to hunt

[mystic yarrow]

i kinda wanted to rock a 30cal loudout with the 300blk, 308, & 300mag but 3-6 robbed me of my excitment for yotes unless......they get a class up. The 375H&H would replace my 300 for my Alaskan hunts. I rp sim 😅 I can dream 🤣. Maybe 1 day

[tropic pasture]

I bet if they did a pole people would love wider class ranges

[mystic yarrow]

Alaska, Germany, & Norway is on my bucket list

[mystic yarrow]

idk bc we've been pushing hard with a handful of 👍's which is why I'm trying a new direction with the new thread bc it is annoying I cant just switch ammo for what I'm using like the bow. Dont hate me but the mag rifles make it real easy to swap between the sp/pt's. I did it often irl between deer n yotes. After a harvest we leave the gut piles and slaughter yotes after.

[tropic pasture]

I can't with my .30-30 but when I was using a mag fed 06 I did the same. I usually keep 2 mags for my bolt guns and handguns

[mystic yarrow]

yea but 30-30 is an everything caliber 🤣 I've been goin bk n forth on getting one

But yea all in all the 375H&H for a single class should be 6-9, 300blk 2-6, 450BM is tolerable as is considering what it is but 3-7 is fair 4-8 might be pushin it

[tropic pasture]

I've had one for 20yrs and I'm never letting it go. Elk down to feral pigs it's been a one shot killer. Practically no recoil, cheap ammo, compact gun. Nothing to dislike really. If you get a Henry it's easier to load and unload through the tube but my Marlin 336 has always been fine for me

[mystic yarrow]

Maybe the next time around they'll ask us or hold a poll with class options if were stuck with 1 class ammo.

[mystic yarrow]

I'll bare that in mind

Funny really all 3 calibers are short to mid range calibers

@eternal crest apologizes for the rant, I'm just hoping they make adjustments bc I was really looking fwd to the pack till I seen the classes esp. with the Dec. Content. This is why I really dislike the #'d class mechanics as they are bc it dramatically limits actual caliber use & potential. But yea the 375H&H needs to be 6-9 to standout as a single class caliber when we all know its going to be the show stopper this time around.

[hearty kraken]

I will say, whenever I’ve asked the others in the community (YouTube, Reddit, etc) about the .300 being changed they’ve always said they didn’t mind and quite liked that idea upon .

[mystic yarrow]

I would be fine with it if Bison was bumped down to 8 for no other reason. EW should've had 9 for Safari Dangerous Game and related species such as Lions, Tigers, Salt Crocs, Water Buffalo to name a few. Yaks I'm on the fence should be 8 like bison?

[hearty kraken]

Yaks are actually quite tough historical accounts report, I think they fit fine in class 9.

[mystic yarrow]

it was n inbetween feeling on them. Banteng I feel should be upper 8 even though they are hardy they dont have the same demeaner as cape or water buffalo. 9 to me for the sake of the game & my sanity are highest danger lvl game. 8 is still dangerous game but a step below like moose, bison, grizzly, brown bear, etc.

[mystic yarrow]

Lol its funny you say that bc thats how I see Bangteng in EC giant cows 🤣

[tropic pasture]

I'd be fine with bison and banteng being tough 8s, like moose

[mystic yarrow]

Agreed

on a related note if the 375H&H is 6-9 it would be a great authentic hunt in Yukon. Still dont agree with wolves at 6 but the rest of EW's class 6 would feel more natural.

Class (6) minus wolves: Red Deer, Reindeer, Caribou, Blue Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Barasingha, Nilgai

I would accept the 300blk 2-5 if wolves werent a 6 otherwise its out of place for EW's Class 6 Game.

[hearty kraken]

Aren’t pigs in 6 now too? I can’t remember

[mystic yarrow]

class 5 if I recall unless I missed a change

i know wiki has them in class 5 along with puma & mtn lions while wolves are class 6 🙄

This is why harvest scores dont mean anything to me bc the #'d classes are all over the place. But that doesn't mean I don't care to those who do bc I truly feel calibers should cover the same Game as they do in RL. I'm 1st & always will be an immersion player and as a hunting game I'd expect to see authenticity. Until they fix that I'll continue to hunt Game with calibers I use IRL.

but I wont go on a rant again, the point stands 6-9 is ideal for the 375H&H & 7-9 will rob players a whole class of game that is more than appropriate. Same is said for the 300blk 2-6 covers our new fox hunt coyotes, bobcats. At 2-6 for no other reason bc wolves are C:6 otherwise it would sit nicely with the 22-250 that should be 2-5 bc I hate mule deer C:5 is classed up from whitetail C:4. The 450BM to me from my experience is pushing it at C:8 game if it gets changed to a 4-8, but is plenty appropriate at 3-7 with the 7.62x54R

[gritty yoke]

What is it classes for currently?

[hearty kraken]

.375 - 7-9

.450 - 4-7

.300BLK - 3-6

[limber siren]

This^^^

Especially since there's some animals with funky calibres being ethical for them. Like .308 on black grouse

[fallow kettle]

Yes please

[empty dust]

Hunt red stags in Europe with a .375; you're a bit overpowered

[mystic yarrow]

6-9 all the way. Its even rated to hunt deer with it.

in truth it can easily be a 4-9 realistically

Hornady all day: (260gr CX: 50lbs-1500lb game/ 300gr DGX Bonded: 1500lbs-Dangerous Game)

[tropic pasture]

Whitlock should be a 3-7, that thing is not a varmint gun

[mystic yarrow]

👆 30-30: Hornady 140gr 50-1500lb game all day 3-7

243: 58gr - 100gr <50 / 50-300lb game 2-5

lets be real 243 being 2-6 bc of wolves and 30-30 is a bit much on fox at C:2 where coyotes should easily be a C:3 & wolves to C:5. So yes 375H&H deserves 6-9 at the minimum. C6 (minus wolves): Red Deer, Reindeer, Caribou, Blue Wildebeest, Gemsbok, Barasingha, Nilgai

But as always easy solution 2 ammo types on all calibers just like the Hudzik. No more bickering on what covers what & everyone can choose what caliber they want to hunt with & what they want to hunt as easily as choosing ammo option A, B, or Both.

[fallow kettle]

I agree on making it 5-9 since that's the same range as the 9.3 x 74r and that's a very similar cartridge

[tropic pasture]

Yup

[tropic pasture]

More versatility in the rifles will just make them more fun in general. Short of giving us the option to* change what caliber* the weapon uses, expanding the class ranges 1 or 2 classes will give us way more freedom and flexibility to enjoy the game in our own ways.

I can't see this hurting anyone either, if they want to they can still use the same rifle for all the same classes anyway. The rest of us will enjoy hunting red stags with a .375 and black bear with a .30-30

[fallow kettle]

I agree. Having a lot of guns on me is kinda annoying as it can be a lot to sort through

[rough wind]

Why you always hating with every one

[hearty kraken]

Where in this thread or any others am I hating on someone with malicious intent?

[rough wind]

Go to Yellowstone and read the message then go to another feed back and see what you say because it is always negative on the topic and people have even said you were arguing with them multiple times

[hearty kraken]

Not malicious in the slightest

[rough wind]

Who said it was malicious

Except you

[hearty kraken]

Every post that’s been interacted with recently is literally liked and most of them I’ve interacted with in a positive way.

It would be beyond impossible to link every single post I’ve enjoyed reading through because I enjoy so many ideas.

If you can’t take basic criticism, you really shouldn’t be in an open FEEDBACK THREAD.

[hearty kraken]

The opposite of positive is negative… or malicious, they are synonyms.

[rough wind]

I’m not saying just for me but I have seen like 7 arguments that you have been in. In the last 2 days

[limber siren]

It's not that deep

[rough wind]

I’m. Not trying to make it deep

[hearty kraken]

You clearly are though. an open thread… in discord is not that serious

[limber siren]

How about we talk about .375 being 6-9🧠

[rough wind]

Ok

I like the idea of more guns

[tropic pasture]

36 interactions and only 2 are thumbs down

Seems like a lot of us would like more versatile weapons than a loadout with 6 guns to cycle through

[fallow kettle]

I think 5 or 6 should be the minimum

I know leopards in Africa are often taken with the 375 and they're in the class 5 weight

As well, the 9.3x74r is 5-9 and it's the metric equivalent of the 375

Though even having the rifle be class 6 is fine as a 6-9 rifle (nice) is a great niche

[hearty kraken]

They are easily 7/8 in danger thought

Which is mostly how EW classes dangerous game and especially the cats.

[fallow kettle]

Well the cougar is class 5

[hearty kraken]

Cougars are not dangerous game, quite the opposite actually

[fallow kettle]

As well, hefty plains game animals like zebra, wildebeest, and gemsbok are hunted with the 375

[charred totem]

quick kill, if returned in affecting the score, shouldn't damage the integrity check unless under 66% in my opinion, because even in real life you won't always be dropping animals even with good shot placement

[mystic yarrow]

By RL standards I strongly disagree being hunted by one personally. However, I will agree to disagree on that note bc they are not in the same league as official DG. This can also be said with wolves. But I do agree with @fallow kettle that the 375H&H is ethically & authentic to be used on EW's class 4-9 game IRL & has been for yrs if we want to be specific. Idk where EW gets there sources from to determine ethical classes or ammo referenced but they are defn. not getting accurate intel based on what I'm seeing across the board. But I understand its a game with rpg mechanics intended for 2018 niche in development. However as the game is evolving with each passing year to becoming more authentic. I'd expect our weapons & ammo to be authentic as well over outdated rpg mechanics being that its 2024.

With that said I have no issue with the 375H&H being a 4-9. 5-9 isnt right to hunt mule deer over whitetail. However, 6-9 is plenty fair outside of wolves n we already know why. (For those who dont several species are classed incorrectly.)

[fallow kettle]

I'd demote mulies to 4 and then make the 375 a minimum of 5-9 with my principal reason being the 9.3 being that

[winter orchid]

Any animal has the potential to be dangerous, but cougars don’t attack and maul groups of hunters while they’re firing at it like leopards for example. Bison injure and even kill people not so uncommonly, but they won’t run into the brush, circle around to your flank and intentionally try to make sure you die like Cape buffalo. It’s not just about how F&G legally classes, it's for a reason

Also I think 6-9 would be cool for the .375 (assuming the .338 gets the same treatment and the .300 gets brought down to 5-9) but I don’t agree with 4-9 or 5-9. You don’t use .300gr projectiles going 4,700ft lb of muzzle energy rated for DG on whitetail deer or wolves (sportsmanship hunting anyway). It’d be different if you can equip lighter loads like the muzzleloader like you requested, but with the one size bullets they use in game that would be overdose

[winter orchid]

I know the 9.3 is supposed to be the metric equivalent and all but at least according to the hornady bullet info I have printed out, the .375 shoots a 5% heavier projectile 300 fps faster with over 1,000 pounds more muzzle energy

[fallow kettle]

I think 6-9 is a fine compromise

[winter orchid]

Yea, it’s worth a little distinction

[void radish]

Aint no way mulies can go to 4. 5 is good given their weigh equaling hog/pig and boar. IMO the 9.3 should be 4-9 since its terminal ballistics are equal to the hottest .45-70 loads and the .375 should be 6-9 so we can use it on larger plains game like wildebeest and gemsbok.

[fallow kettle]

Yeah I think 6 is the minimum

[tropic pasture]

I'd use a .375 on boars tbh, but that's the smallest I'd go. 6 is fine to me

[void radish]

from what I gather some people have hunted a few of the tiny ten with it which just seems mean lmao

[hearty kraken]

It’s mainly for tracking.

I wouldn’t want to track one

[void radish]

that's fair, although I feel you could achieve the same effect with any .30 cal rifle without loading up a gun famous for its use on elephants to shoot a 14lb animal lol

although i suppose using the H&H for everything means less guns to carry lol

[hearty kraken]

Better safe than sorry😂

[void radish]

new insurance policy just dropped: 350gr jacketed softpoints 💀

[hoary inlet]

Indeed just from the Numbers the .375H&H is way stronger than the 9,3s (x74 being the rimmed equivalent to the x62) but it can penetrate very deeply and consistently because of the sectional density.
https://youtu.be/2rVPXzA2HE4?si=rZOBR-b-cyEOqn88this Video explains it very Well.

[versed moon]

Just to make something known, hornady was classifying medium game to be 50-300 pounds. They’re recommending that the 375 can be used for the largest of medium game with the right load (usually lighter). Obviously they’re not really recommending 375 for 50 pound critters.

[winter orchid]

Yea I was actually gonna mention that before. 300-1500lb game doesn’t mean it’s optimal for all of them, there’s much difference between a 300lb animal to a 1500lb animal.

A mule deer and a Kodiak bear are both in that grouping together

[mystic yarrow]

I'm fully aware of that & why I said 4-9 authentically over 3-9. & yes its fine hunting deer with it. In this case till authenticity is applied 6-9 is a fair range.

[mystic yarrow]

The reason I state it is bc ppl will debate caliber use & I use Hornady specifically bc they have public displays of what is used for what game IRL to prove a point that it can. At the end of the day folks can choose their preference as they should but I've noticed many have little to no knowledge on calibers & potential use. The 300, 338, & 375H&H are all able to be used on the same game coverage authentically with the 375 being a minimum requirement IRL in Africa to my knowledge. But I'm sharing info explaining to those who dont know its not just for African Safari. Which is why several of us are pushing for caliber Game authenticity over single ammo class locks. Ammo should be split just like the Hudzik with 1 covering the lower authentic game range & the 2nd for the highest authentic game range on every caliber. I already submitted this to EW in detail & they agreed. It was sent to the Dev Team so hopefully in a future update we'll see buffs & authentic ammo coverage. With any luck I also hope Game classes will also be adjusted in the same update. I dont expect an update to soley be 1 thing.

[winter orchid]

Not to break your balls but my very small request for the exakt reflex sight to be usable on the .375 was submitted to the dev team too, I even went further and used the dev portal and it didn't make the cut.

By comparison that's a pretty game changing alteration

[mystic yarrow]

🤣 Your not busting my balls, at the end of the day its a suggestion. It'll always be up to EW at the end of the day. However I will always provide authentic info bc most folks dont know. The 300blk was a prime example when ppl thought it was another 300mag 😅

[winter orchid]

I getcha.

[mystic yarrow]

Besides the game is evolving over time so it could be applied at a later time, in relation I'm also waiting to use the Raptor Reflex on the Inline.

[empty dust]

Have you noticed anything when changing the Zeroing of the Vallgarda? What do you think of this?

[mystic yarrow]

? Not yet havn't been on.

[empty dust]

Take the rifle without the scope and set the zerosing; the iron sights are added.

[mystic yarrow]

Will have to gander at it when I do my Yukon Caribou hunt with it.

[empty dust]

Zerosing at 75 meters, at 150 m and at 300 m.

[mystic yarrow]

Thats different thought they were supposed to be flip leaf sights. But being added is a different take.

[winter orchid]

Wdym? They are flip up. There's a little animation

[empty dust]

The Vallgarda’s iron sight provides a field of view of approximately 37%. Repositioning the aim might be a bit difficult and uncomfortable for me.

[mystic yarrow]

I was looking at the photos after playin a bit I noticed they are flip ups

[versed moon]

Yeah I wish the express sights weren’t as much of a deep V

[mystic yarrow]

Here is your C:6 list (minus wolves) & 7.62x35 is supposed to cover these Large Game at "(3-6)" **really....?! 🤨 375 H&H is rated to hunt these IRL. 300blk's factory ammo isn't even rated for these •Hornady 300blk: (<50-300lbs)! = 7.62x35 (2-5) + 375 H&H: (6-9) = 100%🎉 **
Class: 6
• US/Canada
Reindeer/Caribou
• Africa
Blue Wildebeest
Gemsbok
• Europe
Red Deer
• South Asia
Barasingha
Nilgai

[tropic pasture]

Bump

[charred totem]

the .300 blackout really needs to be a 2-5

3-6 is too awkard of a class range, becaue you always have a 4-8 weapon so you would only use the .300 blackout on class 3, but there is no point in having a weapon for 1 specific class (apart from class 1 of course), the .243 can cover classes 2 and 3 so it makes the .300 blackout useless

[void radish]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1312923015503413280 go forth and upvote

[charred totem]

done

[mystic yarrow]

bump

[elder trout]

I would only be fine with the valgarda, being 6-9 if the bullet stats were not weakened. I really need that rifle to double-lung a moose. Don't ruin that magnificent rifle. No bullet/ballistics downgrade ! Neither penetration, expansion nor effective range.

In fact, if it was going to be 6-9 so would the have the .338 and the .300 mag as well to be fair.

[golden flint]

the 338 shouldnt either but the 300 can kill any animal in north america me personally i use 300's irl win mags, wby mags and more

[hearty kraken]

.338 Lapua should most certainly be in class 9. It has proven its self multiple times in recent years dangerous game hunting.

Hell it’s become the new minimum in quite a few countries.

[winter orchid]

285gr lapua has more velocity and 400ft lb more energy than a .300gr .375 projectile

[sage silo]

Yes, the lack of variety is something I hate about the game, it doesn't make sense to standardize weapons in the same classes, there are a lot of 4-8 and 7-9, I hate that so much, I consider it a point that makes people avoid buying certain weapons because they all have the same classes. An example is martensson 6.5mm, it should be a 3-7 gun, it doesn't make sense that it wouldn't pass the check for a roe deer.
I like the suggestion of changing the type of bullets like we do with the Hudzik .50.

[empty dust]

I gave it a thumbs down because if they lower it to class 6, it will make it too easy to take down a red stag without requiring a caliber with sufficient minimum hit energy. With the .375, I can take down a deer with a shot to a non-vital organ, and the animal will drop. That’s why I don’t want this great caliber to lose its demand for precise shooting. Forever Class 7-9

[winter orchid]

Yea, I agree. Only if they add different ammo loads would I want to see it

On a side note though, gemsbok and wildebeest can probably be moved to class 7.

[merry cloud]

Wildebees should go to class 7, Gemsbok should stay class 6. Wildebees are a notoriously tough animal, granted a .270 could take down a Wildebees but its generally accepted that a stronger rifle is recommended, like the .375

[mystic yarrow]

Give the authentic hunters what they want: •multiple or 2 class range ammo options (like the Hudzik, bow, shotguns) or authentic full Game range (44. (3-8) 7mm (4-9)) it's that simple. If not well than I encourage folks to hunt what you want with what you want and ignore the medal mechanic bc no one really cares what you score. A trophy is what you make of it not others. Lets be honest here I would almost guarantee 70% of players go to the 22H, 7.62x54R, 7mm bolt, & 300wm AR for all there hunts. The 375 bc EW made it a cannon will be primarily used for moose if we're talking mechanics. But hey to ea. their own play how you want to but as a sim authentic hunter I'm packing 1 primary & a sidearm to every hunt. maybe a bow or rifle pistol as the 3rd. I'll continue to hunt game with the same calibers I use IRL (my pref.). I'd rather have SP's cover lower authentic class game & PT's cover high authentic class game. Calibers should be rated as they are IRL. Simply swapping ammo between hunts is way easier than caliber cycling between 3-4 weapons. Also, why would I carry 3-4 rifles just to add more to my carry weight?! When I could carry more idk decoys, a blind/tent, scents & calls where it would require me to use a pack & get penalized for it.

[elder trout]

Please don't claim to speak for all "authentic hunter". I am more and more inclined to be very fine with .375 to be class 7-9.

And i also disagree that the mentioned 22h, 7,62x54, 7mm & .300 wm is the most probable standard setup for most players.

[limber siren]

.22 virant, .243, 7mm, and .300 are likely the most probable

[mystic yarrow]

Most would agree the calibers are either lacking &/or are heavily restricted to set classes in general. Also the mechanics are deliberately forcing players to use 3 or 4 weapons to cover 1-9 class game on every reserve.

•22H/Birdshot (1-2), 7.62x54R (3-7), Any 7-9.
•22LR (1), any 2-6, any 7-9.
•Any (1-2), any 2-4, any 4-8, any 7-9 or 470 (9)
•Bow 1-9

• Make your pick!

Authentically a Hunter most likely brings 3 firearms: Main, Back-up: (left in vehicle/camp), & Sidearm. Or you packed various ammo for the appropriate game. Depending on my hunt I carry 3 different loads if I'm hunting various game. I don't pack a small arsenal of various calibers. At most I pack 2 calibers and a sidearm for different hunts in general. However Modern arms have made traveling for any hunt easier with assembly rifles where you can simply swap out actioned barrels for various calibers. Ex. 308win easily covers EW's listed C:2-8 Game from 110gr-220gr IRL but its classed 4-8 in-game. Realistically I'd have a 22LR pistol & 308win with different loads for small up to large game. My point here is atleast 70% of players most likely use those 3-4 different calibers in their loadouts if your hellbent on passing medal checks which I clearly dont bc I play the game as a sim over an arcade. I also dont carry various weapons bc it also allows me to carry more equipment w/o the pack penalty.

[mystic yarrow]

As I said before play how you want to and no one really cares if you have a bronze in your lodge when it would've been gold. It doesn't change the look of the trophy on your wall. All it does is affect your reward earnings and makes ppl judgmental if they see a mythical rack as a bronze when they review it in your lodge. At the end of the day if your happy with it thats all it matters. However I do believe all calibers should have 2 ammo options or be expanded to their authentic game range as in Irl bc calibers like any piece of gear & equipment shouldn't be a difficulty factor. Its a hunters preference. Animals are the difficulty from lvl 1: Trivial to lvl 10: Great One and with each lvl & species ai behaviors very. Higher lvl'd game act like older game that have heightened senses & higher awareness making them difficult/challenge to hunt. (My opinion & view) If EW is preaching immersion & striving to replicate authentic hunting practices which they are gradually I strongly feel calibers & ammo is where they need to direct there focus in a future update.

[mystic yarrow]

I'm not going to dive more into Game & their classes bc it's a mess n we all know it is. But those of us who use calibers IRL in-game are conflicted bc of the restrictions. 30-30, 7.62x35, 270, 6.5mm to name a few of many that need help. 375 the point to 6-9 would make it more authentic to EW's classed game from those who Safari hunt as well as Alaskan hunt. The Only C:6 game that doesn't belong is wolves, again its a vast topic I wont delve into. But I've said my peace n rest my case. I respect your thoughts and playstyles & I dont expect anyone to agree with mine. But I will ask for you to atleast review & respect mine. Good luck on your hunts and gameplay hope you get the big boys.

[hearty kraken]

It wouldn’t.

At all

[mystic yarrow]

No it wouldn't - https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/

[hearty kraken]

Most of “class 6” has seen frequent usage with .375

[winter orchid]

300+gr projectiles that pass through 5,000 pound rhinos?

I know pass-throughs don't happen much with the way the game is made, but you're going to drop class 6's in their tracks with gut shots (Atleast according to the cutterito guy). The .375 bullets are based off the bigger loads, as majority of the bullets in the game are.

[mystic yarrow]

If EW listed the g/gr referenced for the ammo I'd be less inclined to debate the classed use on game. But I dont believe all caliber ammo is classed based on the highest grade. Many are not based on that logic.

[winter orchid]

aight I tested it and gut shots only drop red deer like a typical lung shot would, but a lung shot from 300m insta drops them.

[mystic yarrow]

I wont disagree that EW made the 375 OP it kills everything it touches. Honestly I wouldve expected this with the 470NE

[hearty kraken]

Yeah, .30-06, .30-30, and .45-70 are most certainly not full power loads.

[void radish]

.45-70 isnt even a cowboy load; a HSM cowboy load would still be a good 35% more powerful if not more, its gotta be like subsonic as far as energy is concerned

look how they massacred my boy

[tropic pasture]

I think the .45-70 is based on black powder loads (which is entirely stupid considering the model of rifle it's used in for the base game, a literal guide rifle built around high pressure rounds meant for bear and moose)

And I'm thinking the .30-30 is based on the 125 recoil control ammo which is absolutely pointless because it has 7 pounds of recoil in a 6 pound rifle against the .243s 13 pounds in a 7 pound rifle. Not to mention the sheer number of elk and blackbear the .30-30 has put on the table

[winter orchid]

The .470 is only poor performance over 100 meters, within it’s everything it’s made out to be imo

[mystic yarrow]

it doesn't take moose like the 375 I'll tell ya that much. For a C:9 only I would've expected it would drop anything it touches but your still tracking forever. 375 they barely go anywhere. So I do believe the 470NE needs TLC. & yes I'm aware its a 100m caliber.

[winter orchid]

Rip it is not as good as I thought. 54% quick kill at 100m, .375 is 100% and they run less.

yea that gun needs a TLC. Especially because if you have manual chambering on like I do, you work an invisible bolt first if you try to reload with one live round still in the barrel.

[tropic pasture]

Tlc for the .470 could include the use of other sights, like the Ascent scope and red dot, but I wish all the red dots worked like they do on the .470 though

[wispy crystal]

arzyna would make more sense to become a 6-9

[limber siren]

6-8 would be better

[mystic yarrow]

Technically both 338 & 300wm are rated as 4-9's given actual ammo options. However the issue stands with bison being C:9. Respectively on the high end if they are to remain on the high end as single class calibers: 300wm would be 5-9 & 338 6-9 if 375 remains a 7-9. 470NE needs a buff bc its now weaker than the 375 & its a C:9 only (though it should be an 8-9 given its use outside of safari game).

[tropic pasture]

What he means is none of the guns are in the right classes atm and variety is just better all around

[mystic yarrow]

Still believe 2 class ammo options like the Hudzik is the best course for every caliber. SP's lower-class range/PT's higher-class range like I mentioned in my thread.

[elder trout]

As you talked about irl hunters. Most of them do only bring one rifle and one sidearm for safety and if necessary for a final shot on a wounded animal if needed. Most of them decide every hunting session which species they go for on that day. You won't see any irl hunter prepared to takedown boars, rabits, geese, ducks and bison at the same time. It's just a gamer's wish to be take everything with you to shoot everything you see. Irl hunters wouldn't.
We should always keep in mind: this is a game.

I am fine with .375 being 7-9 - just based on the aspect that this is a video game and tje other (weaker) reference catridges of the class range in the game (.300 mag) carry less energy. Otherwise other cartridges would also have to change class

[lone goblet]

I recall the drilling combination guns (like the one we have in the game) being good for going after multiple species at once, and in terms of gameplay it can be somewhat flexible provided you have the right shotgun ammo loaded in for specific species that can't be "ethically" shot with the 9.3x74R rounds

[hoary inlet]

While i agree with the aspect of irl Hunters using mostly only one rifle depending on their desired species to hunt
This Game is closer to a hunting vacation and in that regard its Not unusual for Hunters to bring more than one rifle. But of course Not carrying them at the same time.

I an very much in favor of mirroring the irl Performance of rifle cartridges. I don't have a need for Balance in this regard

[hearty kraken]

Quite a few other irl hunters I know pack for jackrabbits/foxes/other fur bearers when their main target is big game.

Lotta times it’s packaged in

[tropic pasture]

I'll be honest, .30-30 or .300 win mag covers everything I'll care to hunt anyway but I have a little .22 mag lever gun I keep on my pack for smaller animals too. Used to just pack a revolver for it but there's really not that much difference in weight and I like the longer sight plain. Occasionally I'll pack a rifle and an OU shotgun to try for birds (this is rare, I'm a terrible shot with shotguns specifically and have no excuse)

[mystic yarrow]

As others have already pointed out it isn't uncommon to prep for multiple game on a journeyed hunt. I'll agree it's a game & it is also a sim by genre. The game also has a narrative story if folks pay attention to the main stories at ea. reserve. You are a seasoned hunter that travels around the world by invitation to assist wardens with various authentic tasks as well as enjoy the luxury to hunt for various game while your there. This is a real-life scenario as various IRL hunters with opportunity & well-known reputations get to take part in. So, the game is deeper than most realize. I used to take part in these scenarios IRL all over the states before my children were born so for me it's a breath of fresh air as it relates to my own experiences when I studied zoology (eco & behaviors) as well as hunts I would've normally had to wait to get a draw for. Is it perfect not at all as the game portrays overpopulation everywhere you go. With that said it simulates culling over permit hunts & VG mechanics matching calibers to game using class #'s. This wouldn't be an issue if EW accurately classed game by Game & Park Standards & appropriately paired calibers to authentic ammo rated for game. The medal mechanic is flawed as it ties to trophy score when it should be based on a clean dispatch using appropriate ammo not by caliber! As you mentioned yes, alot of us agree all calibers need reclassed with single Authentic game ranges in general if not they need 2 ammo options like the Hudzik. I already submitted this in detail to EW with a proposal for an Authentic ammo class expansion. So we will see if it gets applied in a future update, based on the reply they were very interested in the proposal as it aligns with their goal for the game & its future.

Anyone can play how they want to it doesn't affect anyone & I respect that as a gamer. A game is what you make it out to be & if you're having fun then the games a success. Our feedbacks are mere suggestions, it'll be up to the Dev's if they apply it in the future.

[lone goblet]

Regardless of weather the 375 stays a 7-9 or becomes a 6-9 rifle

It would be a very useful rifle for a Canadian Arctic Reserve with all the potential dangerous animals in the area like polar & grizzly bear, muskox, walrus and wood bison plus moose

[mystic yarrow]

Agreed, as I mentioned calibers are a preference and the option is there. Sure it affects rewards and medal rating currently, but it has no effect to the Games display in ones lodge to admire. Though I wish we had additional trophy displays other than full body & head mounts. Like pelt or european skull mounts.

[mystic yarrow]

Sunrize Acres Ranch would be ideal for that imo if they added it. Parque Fernando is an in-game reserve I recommend.

[winter orchid]

Why red deer in class 7? Aside from the wolves they’re one of the smaller class 6 animals and would be the smallest class 7 by over 100lbs

[fallow kettle]

Also, I just don't wanna have too many guns on me during a hunt

[mystic yarrow]

bump

[fallow kettle]

Bump please

[mystic yarrow]

bump

[elder trout]

I reported this bug on the .470 ... they say, they couldn't reproduce it. Maybe you submit this as a bug ticket too? I have manual chambering also on, for immersion.

[still agate]

In my opinion, 375 being more powerful than 300 and 338, it doesn't make sense for it to be 6-9 and 300, 338 be 7-9

[elder trout]

Exactly... the .300 Mag and the .338 would have to down to 6-9 too. Otherwise it would not make any sense.

And: I am pretty sure nobody wants the bullet stats to be downgraded. I am so happy for the .375 (and also the .300) being as powerful as they are. (In fact, the .375 could have a slightly flatter trajectory to be even more loveable).

I somehow fear, that the request to make them (.375, .300 and .338) go 6-9 would EW triggger to nerf the bullet stats. So... please don't nerf the bullets. I could live with them being more versatile, but I could not live with them being nerfed statswise. If you ever shot the vallgarda once you'll never want to lose the ability to double-lung a moose from bigger distance again

[winter orchid]

I can do that sometime

[elder trout]

Great. It really annoys me using the king apex... it happens very often to me, when I use that rifle. The more people report that the better.

[limber siren]

Well .300 shouldn't be 6-9. Should be like 5-8

[elder trout]

As much as I understand it from a realism centered point of view... but we already have much variety in range 4-8. Shifting the .300 magnum to 5-8 would reduce the already thiner spectrum of weapon choices of the upper species segment and increase the already big 4-8 variety.
So from a gaming point of view, thats a clear "no" from me. Realismwise i get your point, but since this is a game, some compromises have to made. Just my 2ct.

[limber siren]

Sooooo 6-8

[hearty kraken]

The .300 has no real reason to cover 9

[limber siren]

It is NOT gonna get through cape buffalo ribs

[tropic pasture]

I mean, honestly, we'd be better off ditching classes always to make it more versatile

[limber siren]

yeah the whole class system is just completely messed up

[elder trout]

It is messed up from a realism standpoint. Cotw is a game. Games need to be easily underatandable also for non-hunters. So if you always want to handle joules of impact energy, you can choose WOTH, which has a different approach. But COTW chose an easily understandable class system, which comes with compromises. This game is also a game for non-irl-hunters, so let's stay relaxed, and not get too frutrated. I am all and all very okay with the compromises the devs make in order to keep it accessable for non-hunters and non-irl-gun-experts as many here in central europe are, due to our strict laws. Here in europe most of the gaming community never had the chance to shoot at all, due to the whole area being heavily restricted, which is in fact not a bad thing.
Accessability is an important aspect in selling a game and making money. If someone needs a more accurate simulation of ballistics and cartridges: other games on the market are available

[limber siren]

no i'm just talking about the classes for animals and the class ranges for some guns

like pronghorn in class 3, or elk in class 7. and .300wm being 7-9 instead of 6-8 or .300blk being 3-6 instead of 2-5

[winter orchid]

What's wrong with elk being class 7?

[hearty kraken]

Elk are way tougher than the rest of class 7 the only two that really come close are Sambar and Brown Bear.

[lone goblet]

As I do recall saying before, the Permitted Ammo System from Classic allows for a lot more flexability, especially since you can only really have 3 weapons equipped with one of those having to be some sort of handgun/crossbow pistol (Sure you can pack a 4th weapon but you can only use 3)

[limber siren]

what liam said plus they really need a resize

[tropic pasture]

It's not about being a simulator, it's that the class system keeps gameplay heavily restricted. If someone's favorite animal is roe deer and their favorite rifle is anything but a class 3 they can't use it for their favorite animal.

There's also gameplay itself, some people like simple set ups. Most of us want to hunt without having to scroll through 4 or 5 weapons tyring to get the right gun for the class of animals.

Another thing is the "balance" issue. The new weapon pack is a good example of this, the Fors Elite is using a cartridge much weaker than the .30-30 and. 243 but they say it's competing with them.

If we didn't have the class system and the rifles worked like they do irl they'd all have a place. You'd pick by what you like and how you want to play rather than taking a weapon you don't really care for just to make sure you get the highest score

[mystic yarrow]

Agreed. CotW has been lacking for the past few years in this regard moving game to classes that make no sense let alone range balances with calibers. I'm still upset they altered 10ga birdshot to 1-2 to justify its use on SP aside from the clay range. While I was expecting the community pack to be a well-balanced 3-gun loadout. ("•300BLK: 2-5 •450BM: 3-7 •375H&H: 5-9 or 6-9") esp. after the community has been asking for them for years, let alone suggested game range. It really hurt having our pack being unusable on a new reserve released on the same day 😮‍💨 I'm going to give EW alittle slack presuming it was an oversight over intentional. If it was intentional then shame on them for making the skeet range & shotgun the selling point aside from the 2 G1 adds. And I'll also add we dont need more ducks, we just got a pointer and upland birds are too few in comparison to waterfowl. Revontuli made sense with the lab for more waterfowl, however with a pointer moving fwd I'm expecting EW to release more Upland Species instead of catering to Waterfowl. "Nothing personal & I mean no offense to those who are Waterfowl Hunters"

[mystic yarrow]

@elder trout I remember you mention the compromise and your worried the 375 will get nerfed at 6-9 I believe it should in terms of power to range ratio given as is, its more powerful than the 470NE. If nothing else as I already submitted an "ammo/caliber class expansion for all of them" to EW. I do agree full heartedly a rebalance is needed across the board. We have way more options then we did back in 2018 & I will give EW credit where its due with the selections however having rifle pistols as 1 example outperform rifles isn't what I call a compromise among others when the compromise should be light weight & shorter range over effecting the caliber itself between the 2 options.

I will agree its a game & the mechanic is over simplified in terms of playing a number match game. I can deal with it in a general sense, but what I can't get passed is how calibers perform to the classes they are assigned to and are poorly balanced while other well known & the most popular calibers are OP in comparison. This would make sense in a PvP Game however as a Solo intended title with no competition to speak of it makes zero sense to have these extreme balance differences. Calibers & Weapon choice shouldn't be a difficulty factor, it's a personal preference to the shooter! The game we hunt & the methods used to hunt them should be the difficulty focus. This should go without saying but caliber use isn't the issue to the classes, its Ammo! Ammo should be the class factor, not the Caliber itself and should have 2-3 game class range options over only having 1 choice for both SP & PT.

[sinful kite]

i also think this should be 6-9

[elder trout]

You say "Personal preference of the shooter"... not really in a video game. Irl you choose your cartridge based on available rifles (the one you like, right? The one that also fits your body circumstances and the weight you personally can carry), pricing, available ammo, esp. reloading capabilities, law restrictions, effectiveness and kinds of game in your hunting area, weapon tear (some hot cartridges (looking at you .338 Lapua) will wear off your barrel faster than others), how much recoil you feel comfortable with, whats the price of the whole equip, which cartridges are usually available in your hunting gear vendors nearby, how many specialized huntingtools (aka rifles) you are allowed and able to store (how versatile it must be) and so on... all in all most of them are facts, you don't care in a video game.

In a video game most players play the rifle with the most effectiveness OR the nicest look (subjective fact). From a gaming perspective (only) there needs to be some kind of balancing, and not: Any pick will do just as fine as others.
If any rifle will just do as others, than there would be no point in buying a rifle different to the free starting rifle and one more for the bigger game.
It's an aim of most video games to give progression to get to better suited gear (or shortcutting by paid dlcs... - so to my mind from a gaming perspective even new dlc rifle should cost big amounts of ingame money to give progression, not pay to win).

That's why the rifles need to feel different and have to have different effectiveness... just from a gaming point of view,... not irl

Addendum: Most gamers around the world don't have neither a bond to certain cartridge nor any deeper knowledge on guns at all. You know, if you own a rifle in caliber x you maybe want to use that ingame because you feel a bond to it - and want it to behave like your own irl counterpart. Completely understandable. 😉 But since gun laws are very different around the world, many players (!) just don't. I am quite sure many of the cotw players never touched a hunting rifle irl at all. Laws are different around the world - and many countrys are very very restrictive.

So if almost every rifle was suitable over large spans of classes - like in the real world - there would gamingwise almost no point in having different loadouts. Yes it is a bit exaggerated, but the game wants to teach non-irl-hunters that not every cartridge fits every species. And yes... it exaggerates a bit... okay.... much! 😅

[elder trout]

It's not meant as nasty critism. Just to help to look at the issue from different perspectives. I guess EW had those players in mind, and that might be why they designed the things they did. Let's not forget there are as many types of players out there as there are species in cotw. 😉 Irl-hunters and gun experts are just one of them 😅

[mystic yarrow]

@elder trout Your logic is sound for most games on the market so no argument there however. The game genre is classified under sim & the company preaches on utilizing irl practices in their game as well as their vision. I have no issue with our weapons feeling different as they should. At the start of release I would've agreed but EW is switching gears to authentic features as they should, they're utilizing their engine more effectively than they did back then. The proof is in our equipment, models, further ai behaviors as well as our reserves with each passing year. With that said they are adding & improving the title to keep it running. As for calibers it would not hinder sales bc ppl want new calibers & weapons regardless of class coverage. We've said this before it doesn't matter mechanically anymore with the several available options covering the same range. Grinders are the exception looking to cull targets to get G1's as an achievement as fast as possible, while others play the game casually or so often "to each there own of course." But by providing every caliber with 2 class options like the Hudzik or multiple ammo options like the Shotguns & Bows would only expand caliber use over being stuck on single class ranges that are irrelevant now. Players want more freedom and more customization options to further play how they want to. It would be a smart move to do so. This would also apply to other features such as scope camos, clothing, additional hunting methods to hunt game, etc. If they dont consider applying new features the title will die out & force them to create a new title sooner than intended. It is what it is esp. in the current market & player base. If changes are not considered a competitor (if their smart) will apply these features. Its business, but EW unlike most developers do take our feedback into consideration, bc w/o us (consumers) the game would've been abandoned & no longer supported. I'm not oblivious to that fact 😄

[mystic yarrow]

Again, I know where you're coming from & what you're saying on a market level. But as an intended solo title these strict caliber ammo restrictions is bad business for the future of the title. It might be bias of me to say but I firmly believe as the game is currently with Game lvl's/tiers 1-10 (Trivial-G1) and its genre, the difficulty should be focused on the animals and methods to pursue them over caliber use due to fixed ammo. If this wasn't important then why bother having ammo types to hunt various game in the 1st place?! Different bows would be locked to a single class range and so would shotguns if this wasn't important. I see no reason why rifle calibers shouldn't be expanded as well. Bear in mind I'm fully aware huntable game classes are in shambles as they are esp. with the newly added features. However this wouldn't be as big of an issue if calibers ammo is expanded. Players dont care overall so long as their content is usable to fit their playstyle over it being wasted spending esp. since you dont know the dlc class range ahead of time unless its an existing caliber. Back to balancing every caliber performs differently to game we all know this & I have no issue with that. My issue is caliber class coverage or more specifically ammo class coverage. I personally dont care if the calibers remain as they are on Game but I am requesting class expansion to all calibers to be more accurate. When I submitted this they agreed it follows their direction & would expand player tactics however its up to development if they approve it or not.

[mystic yarrow]

In this case 375H&H being unique should rival as its own if EW continues to utilize single class ranges. The 7mm/.577 (4-9), 9.3x74R (5-9), 300/338 (7-9), 470 (9). I see no harm being its own at 6-9 esp. if 450BM is (4-7), & 7.62x35 is (3-6) even though its absurd & out of place for these to be classed as they are. But I doubt EW will ignore our request for the changes with so many speaking up even more so since the community asked for them. With that said I strongly believe the 375H&H should be nerfed or the 470 gets a buff in power ratio. Zero Ranges are fine but the 375 shouldn't out perform the 470NE within 100m on Game.

[elder trout]

Nerf of the .375 ? Sorry, but from a gaming standpoint (!) i am against it. It is the only rifle in the game to take down a moose from distance fast. The only rifle that does not feel extremely underpowered. A nerf would be a step back into past of the game.

I'd maybe agree to a step down for the softpoints, like on the hudzik with the round balls. But a nerf to the only rifle (with polymer tips), that feels viable for big game like cape buffalo from more than 50 m away would be very very contraproductive. To me ot does not matter if the ingame .375 mimicks the performance of the rl .375. If you like give it a different caliber name, but from a gaming standpoint the new rifle is irreplaceable.
In fact i am against any nerf, since most of the calibers in game feel extremely underpowered compared to rl counterparts. Most hunting cartridges are made to generate an exit wound. The bullet getting stuck on halway through the animal is a gaming compromise for the gameplay loop of long trackings (und thus selling us the matching dlc dog). Nerfing any of the rifles performancewise would be a step in the completely wrong direction. No other rifle in cotw is capable to even surely reach the vitals of a cape buffalo from distance, what is ridiculous. Cape buffalo are not made of adamantium.

As for immersion I wish that rather other immersion breakers would be fixed: like a nightvision scope also illuminating the area left and right of the scope (the whole screen) ... or the whole screen left and right been zoomed also, when you look through a scope. These are far more intensive immersion breakers to a hunting sim. These things rather jump to my eye than any bullet discussion or buff/nerf discussion.

And.... if we talk about a realism based nerf: The moradi or any handgun should be considered first.... there is no way a .44 would punch through any moose from back to front from 150 or 200m

[mystic yarrow]

As I mentioned 1 of many issues to be addressed. Though I'm not ok with the 375 being the be all end all when it renders the only C:9 useless. Even on a moose the 470 is ridiculously weak. Though I will agree with you calibers need buffed to perform accurately with their fixed classes if EW doesn't expand them. I dont like nerfs either but the 375 is alttle too OP on everything it touches & honestly I wish more calibers would have less tracking like the 375 does. 🤣 as for pistol calibers I've already covered that in my thread based on authentic ammo when I submitted my proposal. The optics is an issue as well it does bug me the range finder isn't a mono view and you and several others have addressed the peripheral view with scopes which I agree is 100% agree with.

[elder trout]

I would be with the ammotype - classchange idea.., but then I want an unload animation before putting new ammo in

[mystic yarrow]

They do if you carry both sp & pt ammo and switch. It unloads the weapon for the new ammo or am I missing something?

[elder trout]

Try this on any pump action shotgun or rifle with non-detachable mag. You just add ammo...

[mystic yarrow]

Ah ok I see where your coming from it extracts a single shot & replace the mag yea that would be a nice feature to be considered. Valid point here.

[elder trout]

Naaa, then the vallgarda does not need a nerf. The .470 needs a drastic buff. Same for other class 9 only ammo

[limber siren]

You should like... create a feedback thread about that

[hearty kraken]

.375 400gr sledgehammer rounds when?

[limber siren]

i mean there are PLENTY of calibres that need a class change. .300wm, .300blk, .375, .270, etc

[mystic yarrow]

I full heartedly agree as I said I hate nerfs on a solo platform when buffs should be the solution but more often than not most developers nerf as a solution over putting the effort in however EW might reconsider since its community driven over base development to cash grab like most developers which is rare unfortunately.

[elder trout]

Than we should not advice any nerf to the defs but request buffs instead.... discussion tactically spoken...

[mystic yarrow]

but I'd like to see weapons and calibers be a focus at some point over all efforts being applied to adding G1's. I love the reserves and Game being improved however our equipment needs a TLC update. If anything needs nerfed its game. As you said theirs no reason for them to have body armor as thier stats. But I do get your point, even though they already have on several calibers....or rather they buffed game 1 or the other. I expect fox to drop if I use a larger caliber not do a backflip & get bk up n run off.

[elder trout]

Yes, it removes the chambered round but rifles with fixed mags it ignores the rounds in the mag and simply stuffs the mag with even more rounds. Looks weird.

[mystic yarrow]

Agreed

[elder trout]

Yeah... a nerf of the animals body armor would be a valid first step to more realism - not a nerf of any rifle (okay, except of handgun ammo piercing through whole animals from back to front from 200m)

[mystic yarrow]

😂 never had that 1 since I use pistol calibers up close. Though the rifle pistols zero range should be altered from the rifle counter parts.

[elder trout]

Try the moradi lever action.... 200m with a .44 mag..., through an animal from back to front... aaaah nope.... no realism.

[mystic yarrow]

Both ammo options? I'll have to explore that bc its the 1st I'm hearing about it.

[elder trout]

Use the penetration ammo... then you will maybe surprised... it hits harder than any 7-9 rifle.... get yourself a moose and you can punch through almost thw whole animal

[limber siren]

Pass through better yes, but definitely not hits harder

[elder trout]

You can go for a heart shot from the moose's butt... eeewwww.... seriously ?!

[mystic yarrow]

I'll give it a go n look bc it shouldnt go clean through unless its a broadside but not at 200m. Not from my personal experience anyway. So yea I'll look into it and address it with my thread for the update if it gets considered.

[limber siren]

With a lung shot i mean

[elder trout]

Yeah, maybe.... but all the handgun ammo needs an extreme cut down on long range effectiveness. How fast does a handgun bullet travel !? Sth around 300-400m/s ... and an aerodynamic rifle bullet ? 800-900m/s. E = m v² × 0,5

[limber siren]

True. Same with bows

[elder trout]

This is the only nerf i would see.... and bows... but the standard rifles (including the vallgarda) rather need a performance buff (or animal armor downgrade). I guess this is a consense, we worked out, right?

[mystic yarrow]

yea but bows are effected by wind and drop and your not likely going to shoot 80+m with it.

The grain arrows should be class adjusted. Anyone who bow hunts has likely picked up on it already this includes how tracers work.

But we got off topic I personally have no issue with the 375 being 6-9 as a fixed class range as it is suitable for the Game listed in those classes authentically even though I'd rather have 2 class ammo options for the low range & high range authentically. I'm going to keep pushing for both rifle & pistol calibers to match the Hudzik's 2 ammo options. Esp. since EW did so with both shell types & specifically labeling Grain weights on arrows to cover various game ranges. I could preach shot sizes as well however I wont bother EW with that esp. if we eventually recieve weapon attachment slots. At that point EW can add chokes for Shotguns.

[elder trout]

Shotguns... slugs also need buffs due to the fact, that they deliver a huge chunk of lead... nerf the animals body armor 😅

Would be okay with more ammo types (vallgarda softpoints 6-8, polymers like they are now 7-9 (not nerfed) given that we get an unload animation for rifles with fixed mags (shotguns, rifles). No endless feeding of the shotguns/rifles (like malmer, olson and vallgarda) upon ammo change

[mystic yarrow]

Though authentically 4-8 / 6-9 between the low & high end of the caliber. I'd settle with 5-9 / 7-9

[elder trout]

Would be okay, then it would be one rifle to rule most sorts of game.... but then the softpoints need to be effective. Rn they are ... meeeeh.

[mystic yarrow]

Thats the point 😁 SP's are under rated & before I get bombed on by ppl yes I took All the calibers into consideration including the 470NE with the authentic ammo class expansion I proposed & sent to EW.

My proposal was rather simple to start with adjusting 1st tier ammo (SP's/HP's) to cover the low range & 2nd tier ammo (PT's, SPRN, HC's) to cover the high range authentically. With pistols I divided hunting loads to Dangerous Game Defense loads with future predator ai in mind. My only goal was to expand calibers like the Hudzik, Shotguns, & Bows. All other issues I'm leaving to the community since theirs other threads addressing those issues. It is a Sim & a game so I dont expect huntable Game to be scarce except predators bc authentically prey Populations should be higher than predators generally unless EW releases a reserve Narrative leaning on the issue of predator overpopulation.

[mystic yarrow]

@elder trout Btw if you make a thread on the issues we discussed I'll add the link to my Authentic Update thread along with others that I found along the way.

[elder trout]

Sorry to say so, but rn i don't have the time, to create a propper textual analysis thread on those issues. (RL Work load is back). But feel free to pick up those issues.

[mystic yarrow]

No worries.

[midnight rivet]

I agree

We were very lucky to get the .375 in 7-9 as is which covers bears. All the large dangerous game is covered

[sinful kite]

i saw wolves being class 6 so this would be nice

[midnight rivet]

Does anyone use .375 on wolves in rl?

[sinful kite]

i have no idea

[mystic yarrow]

250gr CX's I would if owned 1

[midnight rivet]

Idt Americans and Europeans really use it tbh

[mystic yarrow]

We do in the US including Alaska

[tropic pasture]

I'd use a .375 for elk if I had one. I hit one with a .416 Ruger on elk and black bear least season. Kicks but it's effective

[midnight rivet]

For the big stuff, you'd use one on a wolf because you can?

[mystic yarrow]

You can use any caliber with the proper ammo. 250cx is the lowest factory load rated from 50 up to 1500lb game.

[midnight rivet]

250gr? Seems excessive on a wolf

[mystic yarrow]

Hardly if you compare grain weights to euro calibers. They use 200gr bullets on roe deer. Another example 220gr 308 on deer & above american

[midnight rivet]

Yeah that's ridiculous. I mean, you can but there will be damage

[mortal pike]

correct, the caliber that should be class 6-9 is the .300 magnum

[midnight rivet]

150gr is good for red deer, a touch heavy for fallow, goat and chamois but maybe a touch light for tahr. Rl hunting experience

[mystic yarrow]

I never implied it was ideal to use 375 on wolves but I am saying Americas view on too big isn't the same elsewhere. Now wolves have no business in C:6 esp given the other game listed in the class. They should be C:4 now given the danger factor a grace C:5

[midnight rivet]

Fair enough. Devs prob gave them that dangerous game class boost ig

[midnight rivet]

Maybe 6 - 8?

[tropic pasture]

Brother, if I'm hunting moose or grizzly and packing a .375 to do the work, I'm using the .375 on the wolf. I ain't packing two rifles on the off chance I might see a wolf too far for my revolver

[mystic yarrow]

its 9 bc of bison if bison was bumped to 8. I hate to say it but they are really dumb ingame 😅 whats worse is moose seem to be way tougher, and they are a C:8 & bison are a C:9.

[midnight rivet]

Ofc, but it isn't needed for wolves

[tropic pasture]

Yeah, but wolves aren't the only class six the .375 could down. Gemsbok in particular are tough and guides recommend the .375 for larger plains game anyway because it's so versatile

[midnight rivet]

Gemsbok to class 6 was so dumb

[tropic pasture]

Yep, class system is messed up. Anyway, yeah, several class 6 animals would be worth a .375 bullet

[midnight rivet]

Tahr should be at least class 5. They regularly tank bullets that knock over red deer

[tropic pasture]

I'd use 180gr .300wm for them tbh

[mortal pike]

It could also be perfectly 6-8ç

[midnight rivet]

Many do. 300 mag is popular for tahr

[tropic pasture]

.300 wm is the go to for mule deer here in Wyoming, I've only met 2 guys who prefer something else and they both swore by Weatherby cartridges

[mystic yarrow]

See in NE we always hunted mule & whitetail with 243, 7mm, 270, 308, 30.06, & 25.06

[tropic pasture]

What ranges do you generally see there? Here typical shots are 300 plus

[mystic yarrow]

250yds 80% of the time it would vary on location ofc but 250yds or less avg. But I'm very much aware elevation & terrain in these parts are very different then NE's.

[tropic pasture]

Yeah, sounds normal. That close would be fine for pretty much any usual deer rifle but the mountains make things more difficult to get a clean shot. You'll be shooting from one ridge to another here most times because there's too much cover otherwise. It doesn't help that it's steep and windy. You either go into the forest to try stalking them or shoot a long way. My .300 has a dope card on the stock for a reason lol

[mystic yarrow]

But wyoming I'd find to be tricky given the winds & open terrain like the plains it has to tough.

[midnight rivet]

Anything 30 cal will kill tahr alright, but need extra powder for the longer shots. They can still tank rds though. Happened to me twice

[tropic pasture]

It's only open in te southern half of the state, where I am there's just a massive amount of pine forests

[mystic yarrow]

my furthest deer was 310yds bk in NE but target shoots 600yds but I never attempted futher for huntin with it that far felt it was too risky with conditions. Though long range I love the 6.5creed worked well on elk. Though ppl who use it on moose 😬 yikes

[tropic pasture]

I've been shooting out to 500 yards because of the area I'm in sort of demanding it. I couldn't get used to shooting that far for two years since I moved from Tennessee where it's so flat and brushy

[mystic yarrow]

I shot comp pretty often before life changing events. Hell if I tried now I doubt it would go well since its been yrs since I've been at a range.

[tropic pasture]

I'll be honest, I don't care for long range shooting now. I've been doing it to keep meat in the freezer but it's not the kind of hunting I really enjoy

[mystic yarrow]

It isn't mine either I prefer to get close esp. with a bow. The long range was for sport. But I defn. get it.

[tropic pasture]

I can't do bow hunts anymore because of injuries but I do love hunting in close. Thick timber and a lever gun feels like a good hunt to me even of I see nothing

[mystic yarrow]

Hey a successful hunt doesn't always mean you bag somethin. I defn get that esp. With the traveling I used to. Though still on my bucket list to hunt out of the country

[tropic pasture]

I went to Australia last September, didn't get my sambar but I shot a few pigs

Also, my guide did have a .375 to loan and carried one too. He said he liked the 300gr for deer

[mystic yarrow]

Nice. Yea I really want to go to Alaska, Canada, Germany & Norway.

[tropic pasture]

I visited Finland with my wife's family but didn't hunt. It was a cool trip tho

[midnight rivet]

Got it incase of buffalo?

[tropic pasture]

Yeah, tons of them and feral cattle there

[elder trout]

Many guns in the game respect the selected ammo type in the reload animation. E.g. the .50 cal front loader (culman) show the different projectiles prominently on reloading of the rifle.

But on the new vallgarda the ammo type is not respected in the reloading animation. If you use the polymer-tips ammo you always see roundnose/softpoint projectiles upon reloading the fixed magazine, what is somehow awkward. There should be very pointy projectiles in the reload animation if you use the polymer-tip rounds. It somehow always catches my eye.
In the ammo store the different ammotypes are also respected by different pictures, so should also the reload animation...

This would also be a nice fix on the vallgarda.
Once seen it can not be unseen.

[merry cloud]

I love CotW to bits but the firearms in the game are not tended to on the level I would hope for in a game where they play such a huge role. The .223 bolt action permanently has a case stuck in the chamber and the .303's have a visual gam in the bolt that allows you to see into the chamber when the bolt is closed, so there's that with the .375's incorrect ammo models

[elder trout]

I agree, the whole guns need a complete visual check-up for such immersion breakers. This game is all about hunting with rifles.

[void radish]

Well depends on the local subspecies. Eastern wolves are about 65lbs as adults but Northwestern/Yukon wolves are 160-180 with some nearly 200lb specimens being known.

[tropic pasture]

Honestly my biggest gripe with the .375 is that front sight. I hate the cover on it being so oversized for the ridiculously small sight bead. It's modeled on an express rifle designed for fast target acquisition and bad situations, that tiny bead does no help you get on target quickly and saying the sight hood is good enough just means you have no experience with dangerous game

[elder trout]

The sight hood would also be in line of sight of big mounted scope like the argus.

[tropic pasture]

Trust me, it's in the line of sight for any scope. My .30-30 had a low top hood on it and it was still in the bottom of my sight in a 1-4x 24 Vortex

[midnight rivet]

So?

[void radish]

how extreme the mismatch is varies depending on the subspecies

[midnight rivet]

I wouldn't think a 200 lb animal needs more than 180gr tbh. Tahr are bigger and heavier, thick skin and 180s are about right

[tropic pasture]

I'd say anything between 180 and 250 would be fine, it's more down to the construction the bullet than the weight. Basically, a well made bullet will do the job no matter what as long as you place it right. Also, I looked for commercial. 375 loads that would justify class 6 animals and guess what I found?

235 grain lead free hollow point ammo that uses about the same energy as the 9.3x74r which is 5-9. Who would had have ever known the .375 was so useful on such a wide variety of animals? (Sarcasm, times 5)

[mystic yarrow]

To be honest I was expecting the pk to cover the 3 gun loadout at 300bllk (2-5), 450BM (3-7), 375 (5-9) not (3-6) - (4-7) - (7-9) esp. when we pretty much expected the 375 to be the showstopper of the pk.

Ideally from authentic common uses in the field 300blk (2-5), 450BM (3-8), 375 (6-9)

[merry cloud]

I mean if we really wanna push it in the name of realism sake, the .375 could easily be a 4-9 but that's definitely be hopelessly op in game. I know of a very experienced hunter who has even taken a Mountain Reedbuck with a .375 and that animal is about the same size as a roe deer and his only complaint was that the gun was heavy to carry in the mountain so there's a potential argument for 3-9. Again tho, waaaaay too OP for game standards

[mystic yarrow]

Even by factory ammo ratings for game this can be said for every caliber in -game which is what I'm pushing for https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1309326894684180560 . It doesn't make sense to restrict or bind calibers in a solo title. PvE games have a bad habit doing it in sim genres & theirs no point to. In this case its a hunting game calibers should cover as they do authentically. If this wasn't important than why bother having various arrows to hunt game. If bows were like rifles and pistols longbows 1-3, recurve 3-5, compound 4-8, crossbow 5-9. The same can be done with shotguns: 410ga 1, 20ga 1-3, 16ga 1-4, 12ga 1-5, 10ga 2-8 as examples

I see no reason why EW cant apply various ammo options to expand to authentic game ranges & I find it bother some when the only rifle that has it is the Hudzik, while bows & shotguns have options as well.

[tropic pasture]

I can see that, particularly considering how you could affect the animal. It would be no different than a handgun bullet designed to prnetrate. Just smaller than most handgun calibers

[hearty kraken]

5-8 preferably

[grand sequoia]

Yes this would be nice but irl this is the smallest gun you can legally hunt with in Africa meaning it’s is a very big gun and there are plenty of other weapons that work for class 6 just fine

[mystic yarrow]

I see no reason why not to have both ammo options, easy fix to all calibers honestly. 1 covers the lower game range while the 2nd covers the high range. African game isn't the only use the 375 H&H has just bc its the minimum req. for Africa DG. Same can be said for the 470 NE that has ammo for bears & moose.

[limber siren]

Which is the .375

[hearty kraken]

Who @‘ed me?

[tropic pasture]

Bu.p

[versed moon]

The 470 could easily be made into a 8-9 and not be ridiculously overpowered for class 8. Unfortunately the entire list of class 8 animals doesn’t come to mind atm but I know it’s moose and brown bear. Bison of course are already 9 but could easily be made 8, and the 300/338 could definitely be 6-8 instead of 7-9. Lion cape buff and debatably water buffalo should really be the only class 9 animals and in most cases the 300/338s aren’t allowed for them outside of some high fence game ranches. I say debatably with water buffalo since they tend to not be considered as dangerous as Cape buffalo and I’ve seen them taken with 338 win mag with good results

[mystic yarrow]

My debate with calibers vs game is pearly based on authentic ammo. Game class 1-9 is another can of worms I've already debunked. But to avoid EW from needing to overhaul everything including game would be to add ammo options. Or option B expand all caliber classes to authentic use referencing from authentic ammo. 300 & 338 are easily 4-9 and most calibers are 1-3, 2-7, 3-8, & 4-9. Only a few have Dangerous Game ammo available for EW's C:9 Authentically. 470NE 400gr is a 1500lb - DG (7-9) authentically. 375 H&H authentically is a 4-9 by ammo availability. 308 & 30.06 are technically 2-9 despite ppls debates, ammo is available and are rated for various applications & yes DG ammo is available & is real. On a related note, calibers will vary based on effectiveness & knockdown as they should or be equivalent to similar calibers but should never restrict its uses or applications. UH has applied this in their game based on authenticity. I'd expect any hunting title to follow their example & allow the players to choose for themselves over fixed supposed balances we have now. Players should have the option to choose a caliber & select ammo for what they are hunting. Now ethical scores should be reevaluated & be based on takedown while using the appropriate ammo not caliber.

[mystic yarrow]

I get it's an 8yr old game & we will likely never see any of this applied to CotW bc its outdated but EW could pull a 180 & surprise me but I do expect this to be applied in a 3rd franchise title with authenticity as Ultimate Hunting & Hunting Sim 3 are applying for next generation hunting titles. Idk if the new gens will succeed or not we will see but the point that should be noted is the features & options being applied is setting a new standard & expectation players want moving fwd. UH features are on a whole other level going as far as applying game reactions from being shot in different places, players are allowed to hunt with any caliber with various ammo options & a weapon builder to boot. These features matter & I've seen a lot of requests in the feedback for these kinds of features & player options so we will see.

[tropic pasture]

Bump

[sinful kite]

i'd love to use the vallgarda on wolves and other class 6 animals

[mystic yarrow]

At the very minimum it should be a 6-9 though I'd argue its another true 5-9.

[hearty kraken]

This is why we need multiple ammo types😔

[sinful kite]

5-9? isnt it the strongest weapon in the game can you explain how that'd make sense in a simple way as i dont understand much about guns in cotw

[mystic yarrow]

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/ - authentic ammo & use

[sinful kite]

so it should be the same as real life? i'd like that maybe i can remove 308 from my loadout then and replace 243 maybe if this gets added

[mystic yarrow]

All calibers need reevaluated & have ammo option and this is my evidence and reference why incase your wondering. Most of the calibers in-game you'll see on Hornady's website. I use them bc they have a very clear way to see the difference.

[sinful kite]

idk if this is too off topic but do you think turkeys should be class 2

[mystic yarrow]

yes 10lb+ bird same with geese.

[sinful kite]

what about having to get a vital organ hit on that would that be hard and balanced?

[mystic yarrow]

no bc as of now you hit them in the body they die. From experience irl with a bow & shotgun you hit them in the head.

[sinful kite]

so you dont need to vital hit them? wouldnt that be the only class 2 that has that?

[mystic yarrow]

for birds ingame you hit them at all they typically die. Technically gators and crocs you head shoot them as well but ingame you can get away with shooting them behind the front shoulder just like any other game.

the reason you shoot turkeys in the head is to avoid dmg to the meat.

[hearty kraken]

I’d take a class 1.5 for larger birds.

[mystic yarrow]

my thought is class 2 with turkey & goose shells added personally. It feels wrong using normal bird shot on geese & turkeys esp. since I'd use tiny shot on quail & doves. Technically pheasant can go eitherway given they have shells as well but tiny shot works too. The biggest factor missing with shotguns is chokes.

[hearty kraken]

I have seen people use .223 on geese in NZ, such a culture shock haha

[mystic yarrow]

Yea like how ppl talked to me about the 10.3x68 being too big for Roe its similar. I even read an article with 458 used on Roo's as well. The US view is way different than in other countries. Esp. with caliber use & applications.

[merry cloud]

If you search Air Arms SA you'll see a guy culling Egyptian geese with a .22-250 and occasionally a .223
Even though it's culling they still cook them up

[versed moon]

Another thing with having what I’ll call “magnum” birdshot for turkey and geese is they can and are used irl for fox raccoon and coyote quite often. The 10 gauge already does it in game. I know a lot would say to use 00 buck for coyotes irl but in my state I’m limited to nothing larger than no.4 buck which isn’t too easy to find in all the shops I’ve been in. Chokes are definitely what’s missing the most in game but the shotguns almost need and complete overhaul, again if anyone here was playing when the first re work happened years ago.

[mystic yarrow]

Been playing since release so I feel yea. Before I joined the discord I kept asking why we didn't have chokes or various ammo options for pistols & rifles. then the Hudzik was released & I had high hopes for EW to add ammo but still after 8yrs no attachments or ammo. except shotguns, bows, & the Hudzik had options while pistols & rifles have 2 fixed/class locked options 😪 I'm really hoping EW does add ammo & attachments to refresh the game bc its days are numbered if they only release reserves & weapon packs with HS3 & UH setting the new standards moving fwd.

[versed moon]

Yeah the rifles and handguns only have one class of ammo. There’s technically two types but if we’re being honest there’s only one that actually works.

[mystic yarrow]

Yup 2nd tier the polymer tips or Hard Casts. Soft Point & Hollows don't do anything. It wouldn't be as bad if game wasn't wearing body armor. The settings are set way to high on alot of game & not enough on others.

[versed moon]

Yeah it’s really whacky, anything above class 5 seems a bit too tough but 5 and under seem weak at times

[neat magnet]

You obviously never shoot a 300 mag

[hearty kraken]

Cute.

[void radish]

There is no universe where a .300 magnum is advisable firepower for a lion, tiger, water buffalo, cape buffalo, or yak.

For plains and euro bison sure, but both of them were historically hunted with .30-06 and even weaker black powder cartridges and should arguably be class 8.

[lone goblet]

While the 300 is the legal minimum for Lion in some African countries, a lot of the professional hunters there still recommend calibres like the 375 and 416 (Based on what I have read in the past)

[void radish]

That's my understanding as well, although I've heard conflicting reports as to which .300 cartridge is supposed to be the minimum. Some have said it's .300 WM, which seems like a bit of a gamble to me, while others have said its .300 RUM, which I could understand with 200 or 220 gr bullet since RUM with those bullet weights lays down a bit less energy than a .416 Rigby with 400gr bonded jacketed bullets.

[versed moon]

It's one that will kill class 9 critters irl but generally isn't legal or reccomended except for bison. I think it should top out 8 but also have bison moved down to 8.

[mystic yarrow]

I'll add that technically by official standards Class 8 & 9 are considered Dangerous Game. Hense DG ammo availability IRL. But I'll also point out calibers intended to hunt Safari game is listed as such on the box as well as for what game it's rated for. 300wm was never intended to hunt game higher than Class 8 & bison should be C:8. Imho class 9 should exclusively be Safari/African Dangerous Game with the exception of polar bear & tigers. Kodiaks would also fall under 9 considering they could be even bigger than polar bear based on my findings. Scary thought when you put it into perspective.

[tropic pasture]

Scoring 3.0 needs to happen in general, and classes either need to be either compressed or abandoned altogether. It restricts so much of the gameplay

[mystic yarrow]

Still believe EW needs to adjust animals by game category & use pic icons & ditch the 1-9 class numbers.

[tropic pasture]

.22 I'm now convinced should be 1-2, and .22H ought to be 1-3

[worldly fable]

i tested the hornet on roe deer and even fallows and it work, more or less

[tropic pasture]

Worked better than. 223 when I tested ot

[worldly fable]

God shot placement is the Key

[tropic pasture]

60yd lung shots, tracked the springboks 40 yards with. 22h and like 70+ with the .223

[neat magnet]

Why would bison move down

[versed moon]

Not as tough as African cape buffalo or Asiatic water buffalo and they aren't as dangerous. The African Lion and Bengal Tiger is class 9 in game because both of them are suprisingly tough for their size and obviously dangerous. Cartirdge minimums also exist for most dangerous game in most places in africa and this is generally a .375, I believe that sometimes its a .338 for lion. Both of these are higher than the minimums for bison, in Alaska to hunt bison with a centerfire rifle it must shoot a 175 grain bullet and have 2800 ft lbs of muzzle energy, a 7mm remington magnum or .30-06 essentially, compared to a 375 which typically fires a 270 grain or 300 grain bullet with over 4k ft lbs or a 338 win mag with a 225 or 250 grain bullet at roughly 3600 ft lbs of energy.

[hearty kraken]

Why wouldn’t they?

[neat magnet]

300 mag can take down grizzlies and you think it can’t take tigers or lions? lol

[versed moon]

It's usually not legal. African lions aren't as big as grizz or moose, but they have stronger bones as with most african animals. Hides on cape buffalo can be darn near an inch thick. Not to mention the dangerous african animals and begal tigers have reputations as widow makers because when wounded they get such a high adrenaline rush they feel nothing and can operate without any vital organs except the brain for way longer than you think, and they have one goal which is to kill you. Grizzlies bison and moose are comparably thin skinned and are no where near as aggressive when injured even though they can still be just as mean at times.

[void radish]

I wouldn't even recommend .300 mag for grizzlies lmao, too many stories of a 600lb boar taking a bullet through both lungs and mauling a hunter anyway. IMO it's .338 minimum, and the largest cats on earth have a tendency to tank shots from things like .416 Rigby and still kill someone, so yes I doubt .300 mag's ability to kill a lion or tiger quickly enough.

[versed moon]

300 magnums probably wouldn’t be my first choice for grizz but I certainly wouldn’t feel like I was underpowered as long as I had good bullets like nosler partitions or Barnes tsx bullets. Bullets seriously matter more than the cartridge, knew a fella that was using cup and core bullets like Sierra game kings in a 300 mag for grizz and it took 5 shots to stop the bear, but others had great success with even a .30-06 loaded with partitions. But for the dangerous African game as I pointed out above, legal minimums exist and for good reasons and I would definitely be reaching for a 375.

[void radish]

Thanks for the elaboration, it is definitely a bullet choice thing.

[versed moon]

Mostly bullet choice but of course when legal minimums exist they must be followed and as responsible hunters it's our duty to pick the right tool for job.

[mystic yarrow]

Well put. On a related note, since grizzly & moose were mentioned 400gr Federals are essentially the US DG rounds for the 470 NE as well. From my findings its 1500lb-DG & used from Elk & Up within the US. If I had my pick in-game I'd use the 470 NE & if I recall UH utilized this as well with the .416 Rigby & 700NE with their ammo options.

300wm is powerful though I think 30 Nosler is the most powerful of the 30cals in the current market if I recall. Still need to do more digging since the Nosler series has been out awhile.

[versed moon]

Correct me if I am wrong on this but I do not recall federal (or any one really) offering a 400 grain 470 load, everything I see is 500 grain. The 416s typically have 400 grain loads however. Not sure how many people here are using those dangerous game rifles on elk and such but they definitly aren't overkill the big guns do not rip up animals as bad as you'd think.

[mystic yarrow]

Give me a sec & I'll look again I have to find where I read about it bc I looked into it a long while back.

[versed moon]

I'm sure someone probably made one at one point

[mystic yarrow]

I cant find the link but its likely an outdated blog I read with old ammo. But put my 🧙‍♂️ glasses on and 500gr is the modern ammunition as you said. My apologies

[versed moon]

nah your'e good man

[mystic yarrow]

After looking around its possible I was reading handloads. It's not common but there are those who do talk highly for using 470 NE on Grizzly & Moose. Elk....I wouldn't but then again I did see a 500NE approved to hunt deer in a caliber listing for Illinois so 😅 https://dnr.illinois.gov/content/dam/soi/en/web/dnr/hunting/documents/ilsingleshotrifle.pdf

[void radish]

Good old Illinois.

Where .30-30 is illegal for hunting because it's "too dangerous" as a bottleneck cartridge but you're legally allowed to shoot whitetail with a goddamned elephant rifle.

[hearty kraken]

.405 Winchester, famous for not punching holes in the thing down range.

[limber siren]

Or just get rid of the class system and replace it with hunter classic's ethical calibers list. Wouldn't have to deal with the tons of problems with classes

[mystic yarrow]

I'd rather have game categories with icons. Classic had the right idea but to condense the caliber clutter for ea. Game. Categories with icons would be easier. UH represented that fairly well with their ammo options for each caliber.

[limber siren]

That'd be nice too. Either way it eliminates the problems of the class system

[fallow kettle]

Bump.

I'd kill to make this a thing

[versed moon]

If I read the rules right for ohio theres no cartridge length maximum so I believe 450 nitro, 458 win mag, 458 lott, and 500 nitro are legal in Ohio. The only requirements they had were straight walled of at least 35 caliber and no larger than 50.

[mystic yarrow]

Yea I thought it was crazy to see 500NE for deer. 450NE I could see given certain loads. 458's are kind of neat depending on the bullet type used.

[tropic pasture]

Bugs me that some thing that big is fine but a basic .30-30 that's been fine for 100 years ain't

[mystic yarrow]

I know it makes no sense.

[versed moon]

They cite using not flat shooting guns because of Ohio being flat but you honestly have to elevate the rifle at a silly angle to make it go a stupid long ways. Most normal bottleneck rifle rounds are in the dirt at 400-500 yds shooting perfectly straight.

[tropic pasture]

A velocity cap would make more sense then. Case shape doesn't mean crap for distance in 90% of cartridges

[versed moon]

Welcome to silly laws. Here in pa we have a few special regulation areas where it’s only archery shotgun and muzzleloader with approved ammo types which makes way more sense, straight walls might be included in that but I’m not 100% sure. It’s also in areas closer to cities which is better than yk, the whole darn state.

[tropic pasture]

My home state in Tennessee has a law that explicitly states that you cannot catch fish with a lasso

If someone is out there catching fish with a lasso I say let the man have his fish cuz that's insane

[edgy wadi]

Officer, This isn’t a lasso. This is a fishing line with extra steps

[versed moon]

Supposedly here in pa you can’t catch fish with your bare hands but you can with your mouth.

[void radish]

I'm imagining and grown ass man swan diving off a bridge outside of Pittsburgh straight into the damn river and full mouth biting a goddamned trout