.270 Changes

[real swift]

The .270 is known for being a well rounded cartridge capable of taking down medium to big game, but in the game that's poorly recreated.
I suggest a list of changes to buff the .270 to finally give it the love it deserves as it gets outperformed by every 4-8 rifle in the game.

The changes would be:

Weight: 4 —> 3.5
Polymer tip penetration: 35 —> 40
Polymer tip expansion: 5 —> 10
Soft point penetration: 17 —> 20
Soft point expansion: 24 —> 26
Class range: 4-8 —> 3-8

These changes buff the cartridge performance on big game while also allowing us to take down class 3 animals to give it an actual advantage over other rifles in it's current class range.
The weight reduction I feel was also neccessary as most rifles weigh 3.5 apart from the visually bigger ones such as the Eckers .30-06 or Tsurugi .338, and the .270 looks way smaller and ligher than them, and it also takes away the unneccessary disadvantage to this already underpowered rifle.

[inner stone]

Finally, I'm not the smartest about guns, but the .270 needs this really bad, I've heard it's pretty close to a .30-06 IRL but I really don't care anymore, just want it buffed.

[real swift]

exactly, it needs to be more than just a slight upgrade on the .243

[clear cedar]

I love the idea of making it available for class 3 animals as well, especially since the Stradivarius variant has roe deer engraved on it yet it currently can't meet the ammo harvest check on them

[real swift]

thats been bothering me too ever since I unlocked it back in 2019, I was so confused when I shot a roe deer with it and didn't pass the harvest check

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[elfin lily]

Definitely needs a buff

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[jagged viper]

Agreed. Happy that Pronghorn are now Class 3, but miss using the .270 on them. It's the perfect in-game Pronghorn rifle.

[real swift]

bump

[idle cove]

So, we need a semi-auto .270 that would be really fun and boost the .270 ammo too. This is a Remington 740. 3 rounds, but same weight so the bolt action should go down to 3.5

[real swift]

it would make it a good overall update as it would also give content to players who won't buy a new weapon pack DLC for that semi-auto variant

[idle cove]

I'd also take a Falling Block style single shot or a BAR type semi-auto. Love them all

[jagged viper]

Hoping to see similar rifles to the Remington 760/7600 and Browning BLR added, too. A pump rifle and box-magazine lever action would be sick.

[idle cove]

Bump. This rifle needs some love, all the base game ones do

[real swift]

I mean hunters in real life use it on elk and black bear effectively, so a buff really is needed, at the same time, it's also used on pronghorn and roe deer so it should be ethical for class 3 aswell

[jagged viper]

This is why 3-8 would be perfect. Maybe even 2-8.

[elfin lily]

#updathe270

[real swift]

I'd accept it as a 3-7 as well, because realistically even if we could, we wouldn't use it on class 8 often, Moose, Grizzlies, Crocs etc. we would take with bigger calibers

[idle cove]

3-7 with a bit of a buff would be awesome. I'd love the same for the .30-30 as they could both compete with the Mosin and the game needs variety of everything aside from 4-8

[jagged viper]

2-7 would make the .30-30 so much more versatile.

[idle cove]

Grew up in TN, everyone I knew had a .30-30. Occasionally they'd shoot a coyote that was after livestock but they used them for deer, black bear, hogs, and thieves mostly. With how scrawny the coyotes are in this game, if I used a .30-30 cartridge on one my dad, my uncles, and especially my grandpa's would be lecturing me about wasting ammo

[real swift]

I'm more interested on how it did on thieves now ☠️☠️☠️

[idle cove]

Extremely effective

[jagged viper]

Oh, for sure. It's overkill on raccoons too. Lol I mostly use it in-game for Muntjac and Musk Deer. Occasionally Whitetails, but there are better deer guns in the game.

Basically it's overkill for what I use it for, and underkill for what it should be used for.

[idle cove]

Yeah, that's about the state it's in, I posted an idea earlier but idk if you'd mind having the link here

[jagged viper]

Go for it!

[idle cove]

#1286939005778268230
Basically, I'm suggesting a total Overhaul for each base game weapon, the devs have made massive changes in skills and methods for their weapons and the base game guns need that

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[elfin lily]

Bump

[real swift]

bump

[runic smelt]

Support everything said here

[idle cove]

Seriously, would love this

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[wide kiln]

I agree with this fully, it's a good straight shooting cartridge that should really be the "top of the food chain" 3-7 rifle. With the 30-30 being the shorter range option and the 6.5mm being the weaker but better at range option

[idle cove]

Bump

[real swift]

I just really really wanna be able to use it on Roe Deer and Pronghorn, as well as Red Deer with decent performance

[idle cove]

I know, I just screwed up a diamond pronghorn because I forgot the .270 doesn't cover them now

[real swift]

I mean its just a really versatile round in real life, it's capable of taking on game as big as an elk and even can do decently on moose too, but it also doesn't create too much meat damage/loss on smaller game like roe deer, that's why I feel like it should be 3-8, it wouldn't even be the first rifle to be 3-8 as we already have the moradi .44 lever action

[real swift]

40 likes achieved

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[radiant axle]

+1, I love the .270 and especially the engraved variant. It being illegal for roe deer is really annoying

[real swift]

fr fr

[idle cove]

While being embossed with roe deer

[clear cedar]

^

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[steady laurel]

270 should definitely be able to cover pronghorn. Very popular irl. It sucks that it is how it is now. I remember being able to grind pronghorn with the AR10 and the m1 garand. Harder to do now

[idle cove]

Annoying AF and pointless too

[steady laurel]

If they’re going to keep pronghorn at 3 then give us a semi-auto 243 or 7mm-08 or something similar for “rapid” shots like the 308, 30-06, etc

[idle cove]

I'd just like a bolt action 7mm-08 honestly

[elfin lily]

Why not just use the lever action 44? It's a 6 shot 70 pen. Sure it aint got the reach of the 243 but I find it perfect for class 3

[steady laurel]

Range considerations. Easier to see more targets from further away

[idle cove]

Sometimes you just get tired of a weapon (Mosin) and you want to use something you liked before the meta (Moradi) showed up

[real swift]

bump

[steady laurel]

Yup

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

almost 50

[balmy latch]

100% I hunt with .270 irl and it doesn’t act the same ingame, the 30-30 also needs a rework

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[inner stone]

Bump

[thorn marlin]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[elfin lily]

Bumpy bump

[real swift]

bump

[clear cedar]

bump :3

[real swift]

if someone doesn't feel like scrolling, here is the post itself

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

60 upvotes!

[real swift]

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[elfin lily]

Bump bump bumpy

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[elfin lily]

Bump

[real swift]

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[idle cove]

3-8 would make the .270 a perfect mixed bag rifle

[real swift]

.22H + .270 + .375 (after it comes out) would be my ideal loadout

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

it would also boost the usage of the .223 and .22-250 as they do just as well on class 2 animals as the .243 does, but the .243 has much better performance on class 3 animals so everyone chooses it over the .223 and .22-250, if you pop in the .270 in your loadout, you can bring the .223 or .22-250 exclusively for class 2 animals

[real swift]

bump

[idle cove]

I love the .22-250 but it could use a buff too

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[obsidian vortex]

I love using the .270 it’s what I use in real life definitely underpowered in the game for sure

[finite blade]

It’s what I shot my first deer with. Through one side and out the other, I’d like to see that penetration buff

[real swift]

according to the internet, the .270 has more penetration than the .30-06, yet in game it has 35 penetration compared to the .30-06 with 45 penetration, I dare to increase the suggested penetration buff from 40 to 45 but it seems like its too big of a buff

[real swift]

bump

[thorn marlin]

Bump

[finite blade]

Probably too big of a buff. It depends on the bullet you use, but according to a spreadsheet I have, 30-06 rounds are usually heavier and pack more energy than .270 (.270 has more velocity)

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

1 more vote

[real swift]

70 🥳🥳🥳

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

⬆️ original post ⬆️

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[idle cove]

Also consider giving the ability to change the Huntsman, Stradivarious, and warden rifles the ability to swap to either .30-06, .35 Whelan, and the good old .270. They all have the same basic case just different diameter bullets

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

no upvotes in the past 3 days...

[idle cove]

I can't upvote twice or I would

[finite blade]

.270 isn't even bad

Just recently I got my first diamond bighorn, mountain goat and grey wolf with it. I think it's mostly just slept on opposed to being poor. (It is obviously mid though when AR's exist or you can use a harder hitter like 7mm or 30-06 on the same game)

.270 has alot of velocity and I believe that's reflected ingame. You don't need to lead shots too much which is why I chose it for sheep and goat hunting, as I shot my mountain goat on the move.

[real swift]

it's capabilites on class 4 and 5 are fine, but it really should perform better on class 6 and 7, as well as be ethical for class 3

[finite blade]

Yea fair. It takes like 2 irl minutes for an elk to drop with a lung shot

[thorn marlin]

if you should a moose in the loungs with the cheap ammo it won't even hit it

make it better

[real swift]

no upvotes in 5 days...

[real swift]

THE UPVOTE DROUGHT IS OVER ‼️‼️‼️🗣🗣🗣🥳🥳

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[idle cove]

Best base game rifle, needs to be a relevant 3-7 along with the .30-30, something needs to compete with the mosin

[clear cedar]

Making the .270 a 3-7 weapon would be awesome
and I'll say it again, the Stradivarius variant has ROE DEER ENGRAVINGS yet we can't pass the harvest check with it

[idle cove]

One of the most annoying discrepancy in the game

[real swift]

bump, 1 more till 80

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

80!!!

[slender orchid]

I feel like this has been suggested for a while except 3 - 8. It's so redundant currently, needs some love

[idle cove]

Feel like the .270, 6.5, and .30-30 would be infinitely more useful as 3-7. They could all use a decent buff, and they'd be competing with the only other repeating 3-7 rifle rather than a horde of 4-8

[lost knot]

Just pressed new game, started on srp and it is very weird to see so many pronghorns and not be able to use the free .270 on them.

[idle cove]

I recently shot a dime with a .270 and had a moment of utter rage

[real swift]

bump

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

bunp

[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[real swift]

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[clear cedar]

bump

[real swift]

what should be the expansion for the .270 polymer tips?
react with:
🔵 for 8
🔴 for 10

[real swift]

bump

[idle cove]

Know what I don't get? Why poly tips are the penetration bullet. The tip makes it fly better but the instant it makes contact the tip gets pushed back into the bullet to make it expand more.

Usually expands to a wider diameter than the soft points do

[finite blade]

yea they should be solids or something

[idle cove]

From what I've seen out of my wife's .270 wsm poly tipped rounds are good at punching through the ribs and expanding in the lungs and heart area and the solid copper bullets just punch straight through if they aren't made to expand in deer sized animals

[slender orchid]

A product of EW trying to standardise everything. Animal/weapon classes included.
A .270 Winchester short magnum? Seems rare

[idle cove]

Not here, pretty popular actually but it might just be because of pronghorn hunting

[slender orchid]

I see. Never seen one here. Funny that 30 06 is also somewhat rare here even though I use one

[real swift]

.270 is one of the go-to pronghorn calibers and yet we can't hunt pronghorn with it

[idle cove]

I was told, loudly, that .270 is far too weak to effectively kill pronghorn and I should be using nothing less than my .300 WM. I asked him how far he was shooting that a .270 didn't take down pronghorn

[shut sparrow]

as someone who shoots with a .270 irl I really wanted to make this gun my main gun for most medium small to medium big game (Coyotes-Mule deer) But I was never able to do so

[real swift]

class 2-8 would be crazy

[idle cove]

Not unreasonable though.
Soft points could cover 2-5
Poly tipped could cover 5-8

This way the .270 covers all the game folks usually use it for and still gets a little buff to the 5-8 ammo to handle bigger animals.

This would also fix the particularly annoying issue of the Vualez coyote mission. The .270 would be able to pass the check on the coyotes. (Yes I'm aware the missions original purpose was to ensure people bought the upgrade to the .243, but that's totally moot now with so many weapon dlcs)

[real swift]

nahh I'd personally get pissed if we didn't have an ammo type that covers 3-7 or 3-8 for the .270

[idle cove]

Why?

[real swift]

because I NEED my beloved .270 to be ethical for roe deer and pronghorn and perform better on mule deer and black bear 🙏🙏🙏

[idle cove]

. . .it still would be tho

[real swift]

yeah but I want it in 1 single bullet though, I think a general problem is just how versatile the cartridge is in real life, there are so many different ways do implement it into the game, hard to choose which way to do it

[idle cove]

There's no penalty to accuracy for switching ammo in the game, we have a quick slot for it basically. Realistically it would still cover all those classes equally and all it requires is carrying a handful of each ammo type

[real swift]

still just isn't very conveniant to have to switch ammo depending on what animal you find on your hunt in my opinion

[idle cove]

We already switch rifles entirely though, it wouldn't change that much. Irl there's no single cartridge for yote to moose anyway

[real swift]

made a similar post about the 6.5mm
#1304778863678853220

[finite blade]

switching ammo is the most trivial thing to get annoyed at. The past two days I’ve hunted banteng with the 9.3 and I start with a soft point and then quickly reload to polymer for a follow up incase the first shot didn’t penetrate or to deal with charging banteng.

You’re not going to shoot roe deer in the same hunt you’re after moose, just select a different bullet in your backpack.

[balmy latch]

Winchester model 70 ranger .270 put a fist sized hole in a hog last night

[real swift]

but I will be hunting pronghorn, mule deer, bighorn sheep and black bear on silver ridge peaks, and I would love to be able to take them all ethically with the same bullet

[finite blade]

I can see why mainly for the sake of accidentally forgetting what bullet you have selected but I really don’t see the problem aside from that

[finite blade]

COTW will probably keep its penetration and expansion bullet system instead of a big overhaul to ammunition though, so .270 getting a simple change to a 3-7 with a couple tweaks probably is preferable.

[real swift]

bump

[elfin lily]

It sucks no one wants the 270 buffed only 93 likes?

[idle cove]

I expected more, but too many new and shiny 4-8 guns

[crimson venture]

Agree we need more 2-6, 5-9, 3-7, 1-2 personally.

[real swift]

bump

[idle cove]

We could do better here. . .

[real swift]

bump

[idle cove]

Wish I could get as much penetration from the .270 as the .357 mag. I did some testing and I really don't like what found

[harsh sedge]

Comparing calibers always leads me to thoughts of a complete overhaul of both weapons & ammunitions, but also, this would benefit from overhauling anatomy of game species as well to make sense in my head.

It’s all so connected.. 😧

This is why I’m such a fan of this solution: https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1250061263019573339

[idle cove]

Yeah, total Overhaul is desperately needed

[real swift]

love love love the idea

[stuck elbow]

Bump

[shut sparrow]

I mean it's overkill for Coyotes but still

[real swift]

yeah but in my opinion there is no such thing for hunting pests, might aswell use a .338 lapua to take care of a coyote if its being a pest and doing damage to your farm or livestock

[idle cove]

In the south yes, a western/northern coyote pelt is a 50$ bill

[finite blade]

Also animals you presumably need a license for on a hunting reserve aren’t really what I’d call pests. + it seems admittedly kind of stupid to shoot a fox with the same bullet as moose. 3-7 is best for the .270 with the current system

[idle cove]

Said it before, will say it again, coyotes SHOULD BE CLASS 3 they simply are not that tiny irl. A fox weighs that ways 20 pounds is massive, a coyote that weighs 20 pounds is starving.

Also, in every state I've been too they treat coyotes as predators and there's no closed season or bag limit, license not needed, only a pass for the WMA you want to go on or land owner permission.

[finite blade]

In my state of new york they do have a hunting season and require a license.

[idle cove]

They payed bounties for yotes the last time I was in TN

[real swift]

I honestly always thought they were class 3 until a couple months ago, but I do love hunting them with thr .22 Hornet so I wouldn't like taking away that possibility, most guns that cover class 3 cover class 2 aswell so it's not THAT big of a problem

[idle cove]

Problem is they look more like foxes used to than actual coyotes. But yeah, should be class 3 cuz they get up past 50 pounds in most places.

.270 sitting at 3-7 would be so much more useful. It would at least give an alternative to the any reserve Mosin

[real swift]

3 more upvotes until 100

[real swift]

98

[real swift]

100‼️‼️‼️🥳🥳

[idle cove]

Hear me out. . .

.25-06
.270
8mm-06

Three calibers that could make this thing so much more versatile

[clear cedar]

I'd love to see 25-06 added, that's what I've used the most for whitetail deer irl, and it would be awesome to use that in-game

[idle cove]

I'd pay a fee of like 10-15kto swap the caliber of a rifle.

I'd buy a second one of the exact same model if was a different caliber

[crimson venture]

22hornet should be 1-3 in my opinion but I agree its fun using it next to the 22-250 that I adore irl for varmints. Though its also nice using 110gr loads in my 308 on yotes.

[crimson venture]

i couldn't agree more I'm ashamed to have yotes in my lodge as they are now they look so sickly sitting next to my foxes 😭

[real swift]

honestly it's a tough decision because then hunting roe deer and feral goats with thr .22H would be a thing, and that just doesn't seem right to me

[crimson venture]

Thats were I'll suprise you bc its common irl, even the 5.7 is making its way in the hunting world. Europe started using 5.7 to go as far as pigs with it.

[real swift]

the belgian FN 5.7?

in my opinion the whole class system needs to be widened because there are so many animals in a class which can't be taken with certain calibers but should be, but there are also a lot of animals in that same clas which should definetly not be

[crimson venture]

yes sir a carbine I recently stumbled on seems to be getting reasonable reviews in Europe in the field.

[idle cove]

Nah, that's a thing irl. It's popular for smallish animals just because it works so well. Competes with .223 for a lot of stuff and since it's quieter it can be used in more places

[crimson venture]

I suggested in a thread to replace the #'d class mechanic and arrange game in Game Categories just like they do in Fish & Game irl. Ammo would be defined to game category over #'s.

[real swift]

if we had like 15 classes we would be able to spread animals out more efficiently for different weapons

[idle cove]

No kidding? I was thinking of having a barrel made for my ssk 50 to use it. I figured it would be good for trapped yotes and such if I found some soft points

[real swift]

I love the idea of the 5.7, it was basically making a .223 and shrinking it down to be used in a pistol and then stuffing 20 of them into the FN Five-seveN and calling it a day

[crimson venture]

Technically: •1: (birds/upland game) •2: (Small Game) •3-5: (Medium Game) •6-7 (Large Game) •8-9 (Dangerous Game) but EW didn't quite get it right.

8-10 dangerous game if you take elephants rhinos hippos into account

But to be more specific 8-9 dangerous game/ 8-10 safari Dangerous Game should be separate so you can define the difference between moose & bison from cape, water, tigers, lions etc. You get the idea 😅

Ammo in this way should also be defined safari/to normal as stated on boxes of ammo irl.

Related to the 5.7 I would also enjoy having it in our arsenal of small calibers. Now back to the thread before I got off topic the 270 does need buffed as I use it irl it doesn't perform as well as it should same can be said for many we have already but just like@harsh sedgesaid anatomy on hit boxes or squishy as we call it in mmorpg's could also be applied making game more vulnerable to ballistics as they do irl within reason. If I shoot a lvl.4 moose 20m away with a .338 with no penetration theres defn. something wrong.

☝this happened playing yesterday with all the magnums except the .577 & 470 nitro.

I understand Game having a difficulty to stalk n hunt but I didn't realize they have ballistic vests as well its annoying

[real swift]

.270 has probably taken more deer than americans have big macs, it definetly does perform, maybe it's down to the type of ammo you use? it has a very good reputation and some people even use it on elk effectively

[crimson venture]

I meant in the game not irl I shouldve been more specific. Irl its a blast my brother loved his Ruger American alot

[real swift]

I myself just realised I also read your message wrong, I thought you said it doesn't need a buff

[crimson venture]

🤣 no worries

[real swift]

also in my opinion, for some animals class we have now, we need a couple more in between them, I think we need an inbetween of 1 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 8 and 9

[crimson venture]

I used Hornady's Chart as an example on Ammo Game Ranges and I prefer not to have #classes at all. Difficulty #'s is fine as is but game should category classed to Fish & Game standards to simplify the mechanic & coverage among the calibers since we only have 1 or 2 ammo options aside from Arrows & Shotgun Shells. Even the Hudzik has ball & slugs tha spreads out game coverage. To make everyone happy 1 covers this range & the other covers this range of game at the very least. Or plan C give every caliber 3 ammo options just like the arrows & shotgun shells.

But I do get what you're saying. But between the discourse among the community between Game & Calibers I do feel this change would remedy game being so spread apart and an ammo rework to choose a range of game by category would make it extremely simple for us, but would be alot of work on the development side to recode.

[real swift]

I dont think calibers would need a rework at all, just a reclassification of animals as we've had recently, I made a concept of what I would change

these are all the animals I would move around, it's mostly based off of weight, with a few exceptions for some predators like wolves and tigers

[crimson venture]

😶 a bit spread out you think?

[lost knot]

Class 14…?

[real swift]

thats so calibers can take down animals more similar to real life recommendations, because some classes host animals which could be taken by a weaker caliber and some with a stronger caliber, but they can't allow a caliber to take that class because the animals in the class that shouldn't be taken by that caliber would become ethical for it

[crimson venture]

Waterfowl-Upland Bird (T: 1)
•Ducks •Geese •Widgeon
•Quail •Pheasants •Grouse •Ptarmigan •Turkey

Small Game (< 40lbs T: 2)
Hares/Rabbits/Grey Fox 15lbs/Tibetan Fox 12lbs
•Racoon Dog 22lbs •Racoon 26lbs •Red Fox-Jackel 30lbs

Medium Game (40 - 300lbs T: 3-5)
•Musk Deer-Bobcat-Muntjac 40lbs
•Coyote-Lynx 66lbs •Peccary 88lbs
•Springbok-Chamois-Ibex-Hog Deer 110lbs
•Blue Sheep-Mouflon-Feral Goat-Snow Leopard-Iberian Wolf 120lbs
•Blackbuck 126lbs •Roe Deer 130lbs •Pronghorn-Kangaroo 142lbs •Mtn Goat 150lbs
•Blacktail-Tahr 160lbs •Axis-Fallow-Sika 175lbs •Grey Wolf 180lbs
•Mule-Whitetail-Mtn Lion 200lbs

Large Game (300 - 1500lbs T: 6-7)
•Bighorn Sheep 315lbs •Boar-Pig-Hog-Warthog 330lbs •Rusa 353lbs
•Reindeer-Caribou 375lbs
•Black Bear 500lbs •Red Deer 530lbs •Gemsbok-Blue Wildebeest 600lbs
•Barsingha 620lbs •Nilgai 635lbs •Elk-Alligator 1100lbs

Dangerous Game (T: 8-9)
•Grizzly 1100lbs •Sambar 1200lbs •Brown Bear 1300lbs •Moose 1500lbs
•Lion 500lbs •Tiger 680lbs •Banteng 1800lbs •Cape Buffalo 1900lbs •Bison 2200lbs

[real swift]

dont get thrown off by the number being so big, it's our current class 9 without bison and 900+kg animals

[crimson venture]

My take on it though I need to adjust for Safari as its own

[idle cove]

Ammo needs to be readjusted badly, especially the older base game calibers. I can see why they made the .30-30 a counterpart to the .243 but just because it doesn't have much recoil doesn't mean it's weak. Massive changes in ammo have happened foe both the .30-30 and. 45-70 and the game doesn't show anything like that. It needs to be updated for pretty .much all the calibers

[crimson venture]

Dont get the wrong idea I get where you're coming from but the #'d class mechanic is holding calibers hostage. Categories is shorter and easily covers multiple ranges of game into Fish & Game classifications. Now ammo needs to specify appropriate game category class over #'s. 308 sm, med, lg game not 4-8. 300win med, lg, dangerous game not 7-9. 470 lg, dangerous game, safari not 9. 270 sm, med, lg game not 4-8 etc. With this change like @idle cove mentioned ammo is updated redfined to appropriate game ranges. 45-70 Med - Lg Game, ammo above Lg-Dangerous-Safari not 4-9 using old load data.

we all can easily agree ammo needs an update to current loads and game ranges need to be expanded with nearly all calibers regardless of whether its #'d or not is the bottom line.

I personally just feel game being classed by #'s is too rpg based over authentic Fish & Game categories since they're reaching for more authenticity & I feel ammo should be as well or atleast as close as they can.

[idle cove]

Oh, the .45-70 is definitely capable of Safari class game like buffalo and elephant

Or is 6 feet of straight line penetration not enough lol?

[crimson venture]

I rest my case 🤣

[finite blade]

Capable, but not recommended. 45-70 has a sectional density of .212 and produces around 3600 ft lb of energy with a 300 grain bullet at 2350 fps

For dangerous game usually you want a sectional density of .300 for better penetration. Example being 375H&H. You can fling a 300 grain projectile at 2540 fps and generate almost 4300 ft lb of energy, and that data comes from Barnes TSX bullets which have a sectional density of .357. So it ballistically beats the 45-70 to death more or less

If in the majority of countries .375 is your standard minimum, I don't know what more inspiration you could draw for the ingame harvest-check system.

Like, if you can use the 45-70 on elephant, hell, add another big bore air-rifle to the game for me to hunt cape buffalo with. Someone had the idea to try it and they pulled it off, doesn't mean it's a great idea.

Kind of ranting at this point, but another thing to add on is the presence of the PH. Your PH is realistically always going to be armed, and if you're hunting something like elephant they're just about always going to be armed with a big bore. So assuming it does turn into a dangerous situation, your PH is going to be there to fling a 500+gr projectile into the target in that event, hence why PH's are lenient on that 375/.366 minimum in the first place. It's like winging a 14 year old into a rated R movie, as long as someone meets the requirement the rest of the party doesn't need to.

[idle cove]

Yeah, that's data for a 430 grain ultra hard cast bullet. Just for the record I can tell you it made an exit hole in the engine block of a John Deere tractor. You keep basing all your info on strangely weak loads for what the conversation is about so I'm curious where exactly you get your info?

You might be finding information on something like hornady's leverevolution round or a reduced recoil load, they're designed for deer and target loads

[finite blade]

Africa hunting.com. Elephant, buffalo, lion hunters, etc..

Even if I'm basing it off a "weak load" I don't think 45-70 ever trumps 375 in anything outside of bullet weight (Assuming the 375 is a proper DG load)

[idle cove]

That's a forum, I doubt you're finding accurate information on there.

I never said it trumped the .375, I'm saying it's effective even if something else does it better

Bull hit the ground by the second shot and instead of repositioning to get a clean final shot, the guide tells him to just keep shooting.

[finite blade]

Thing is, what does it better as you say is the usually the minimum (375). I know it sounds like I don't like the 45-70 since I've butt heads on the subject more than once, but it's an under-preparation for this in particular. Someone has brained an elephant with a .50 alaskan before, and someone had killed a cape buffalo with a 1200 fps 350 grain round out of an air rifle.

Like I said above though, those people had a PH with them that almost certainly was armed with an "adequate" cartridge in the event the hunt didn't go perfectly. It's like with the leopard thing I was talking about in #1195097534239088720 you can take out a leopard broadside with a .223 totally, but if everyone was armed with a 223 and the cat had enough life left in it to charge and maul your group, you objectively have less stopping power for hip and quartering shots than if you had a gun better suited for the job.

For the sake of COTW, since you don't have PHs, the guideline africa already has set in majority of its hunting spaces just seems like a totally good blueprint to use 🤷‍♂️

At the end of the day it's an opinion though, which I acknowledge.

[idle cove]

Look we can go back and forth on this for ages, but it's well established that guns that don't meet modern specs will do the job quickly and effectively. It takes way more than numbers to effectively kill big game, no matter where you are. Last year my wife took an elk with a 140gr .270. I killed one with a 160gr. .30-30, both were a single shot.

If the guide is carrying a .500 NE and he sees you make a solid shot with a .375 he's not going to shove you out of the way to shoot. The guide is there with the big gun for when you screw up.

If you're stuck on the modern calculations then how are you explaining the 200 or so years where much weaker rifles were being used effectively. Yes, I know elephants were killed with brain shots and full metal jacket ammo, but even today guides tell you to aim for the brain.

What are we doing, this is the .270 thread, Africa 2.0 is a better place for this

[finite blade]

I still never stated a 45-70 won't do the job. People hunted woolly mammoths with spears and rocks lol, but there's a separation between killing and being prepared as best as you can to quickly and ethically kill your quarry, including in the event that the first shot or the hunt in general goes wrong and so as to not underprepare yourself, or in other words prepare for any eventuality. And also on a more real note, there's no such thing as a true requirement for this stuff in terms of passing your harvest check in the real world, which I too acknowledge. irl an elephant killed with a 22h all the way to a bazooka is still going to be the same trophy on your wall. I don't disacknowledge that. However, if you're going to go against the advisement, why have an advisement in the first place

[finite blade]

Yea of course, I thought about that in my first comment. There's not much more to talk about though

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here is the original post so you dont have to scroll

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[idle cove]

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