#Great Ones are Impossible— Here's How to Fix It

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

elfin island
#

Hello Developers,

I wouldn't normally make a post like this but I've been seeing a lot of discourse within the community recently and I think I have an amicable solution. Great ones as they stand are impossible to find for those who like to hunt casually/realistically and don't like to grind. In my opinion, this detracts from the vision of the game. Jaxy and the devs talk about great ones in a very magical, immersive light, simply coming out of the brush to see a fabled moose drinking from a riverbed. This isn't the case in-game at all, but it could be fairly easily.

While the simple solution is to buff the spawn rate, this is likely to upset a large community of grinders who enjoy the rarity and challenge.__My solution is to give another way for great ones to spawn, adding "Wandering" Great One's to CotW.__That is, when you begin a session, there is a rare chance for a Great One to be on your map, separate from all your other populations, and attach itself to an existing group or solo zone. If the Wanderer isn't killed after x amount of days it will despawn; encouraging players to explore their maps often.

I favor this solution because it doesn't affect grinding at all, and people/content creators will still avidly grind as a surefire, accelerated way to get great ones. While at the same time making the Great Ones— with so much time put into developing them— accessible for all players, by a means with not so much meta. Getting a GO in this way is still a payout for time and effort put in, but not necessarily how many animals you kill.

That's all I wanted to say, let me know your thoughts, have a fantastic day, I bid thee farewell z_greatone

#

Great Ones are Impossible— Here's How to Fix It

lapis yacht
#

I prefer 1 of each great one just wandering around to be found by chance over providing sacrifices to summon them. If the cull method worked similarly to WotH for potential breed stock I'd favor this as well within reason over having to waste several hours or days to kill 250- 1000's of male game just to get a GO of any species is ridiculous to anyone who can only play 2-4hrs a day let alone in a week. As Saul suggested its not immersive if we have to seek out 100's to 1000's of kills to eventually ever see 1. With that said I approve this idea or a culling mechanic that doesn't require 100's - 1000's of sacrifices to summon.

elfin island
lapis yacht
# elfin island I'm not familiar with WotH's mechanics, how does culling work? I still want GO...

So its kinda cool how they did it bc it goes off of genetics in a herd to allow bigger bucks look it up sometime its a really cool mechanic. Your basically picking and choosing how you want your deer to grow. So lets say Irl you have a herd on your land and you have 4 bucks 2 spikes, 3x3 & a 6x6. You take the 3x3 that leaves the 6x6 n spikes with does. Over time you get new bucks 6x6 grew up to n 8x8 old buck and the spikes grew into a 3x3 with a new non-typical 8x6 etc. Its semi controlled however it takes time to muster a monster. But in the mean time your getting random sizes and variations based on genetics. Its really cool.

lapis yacht
#

Beats the massacre method and hope you get a great 1 after 250-1000+ kills. With the genetic culling you have ways to get various deer colors and or antler combinations by genetic breeding. Of course its by % so its not guaranteed however it keeps it interesting esp when the 30 pointer buck shows up 🤣 or unique non-typical even drop tines.

#

To me this is more realistic for immersion bc it reflects actual populations and genetics like irl each passing season.

elfin island
lapis yacht
lapis yacht
# elfin island That’s pretty neat yeah! It seems hard to implement in cotw since we have no gro...

But your idea works well with current engine where my idea with genetics would be better for the 3rd gen title with an improved engine. Though I think it could be done with an overhaul update down the road or even a similar process using the existing game level system since it ranges from 1 Trivial - 10 Fabled. As it is now its not herd based its total population based with random X kills to get 10 Fabled 😢 = several hrs/days to do. Using a herd culling over an overall population/X kills you could get a herd of 4 does/3 bucks 2 (lvl 2) 1 (lvl 3). Take a lvl 2 n the lvl 3 could be a lvl 4 n the 2 also becomes a lvl 4. Etc. In order for this to really matter devs would need a random generator to create various racks and patterns. This generator can and should be applied to all animals in the game so were not stuck with 5-6 models over and over. This also gets applied to GO's so they are never the same making them unique & different.

lapis yacht
#

I want variations that simulate random racks just like irl. Cant tell me you wouldn't love to see 1 herd that has a 4x5 with a drop tine & a 2nd buck thats an 8x8 with 2 forks and 4 does. 2nd herd has spikes and forks with 1 nice 5x5. 3rd herd 6 does with 1 7x7 with tall guards & a 4x4. All herds would be randomized unless wiped out then a new herd renders in its place in a random location. By culling already spawned herds you have better odds getting a monster is the idea so long as you have 1 male and 2 females. And herds have potential to get to an X cap in number as to not overpopulate the reserve.

polar bolt
#

Great ones are not impossible for casual/realistic hunters. They are just not going to be as frequent as people who optimize the way they get them to spawn. Casual players who don’t have lots of time can still set up a grind if they wish. And let’s be fair if your realisticly hunting in cotw are you even trying to go for a great one? Random is still random no mater how you play, the odds are the same for every play style.

lapis yacht
# polar bolt Great ones are not impossible for casual/realistic hunters. They are just not go...

I dont disagree however I'd like to see more than one mechanic. As I said WotH had a wonderful mechanic using a genetic system just like irl that I feel would fit with the intended course as a hunting game. Grinders still have they're way all I'm wanting is alternatives not just 1 mechanic. Too me its boring if we only have 1 way. I could care less of the rarity or value I want a random generater that creates random racks over the same 5 or 6 models. Its boring and uneventful to see the same deer variants in lodges bc its too limited. Irl a trophy room no deer is the same and thats how it should be in game to a degree esp. w/GO's. If I recall we only have 3 G1 WT variants. With a random generator you could have multiple variations. Typical/Non-typical/Tall Guards w/Mass/ Drop Tines/Tear Drop Tines/Broken points etc. I'd love this more for all Game Species over fixed models. Hell I'd pay 49.99 for it to be updated in.

polar bolt
#

Good points ya have here. I just feel if you have multiple ways of acquiring great ones the player base is most likely going to be drawn to whatever Is the quickest/easiest and the rarity will spike. And when it comes to a genetics system I feel that it would change the game too drastically and can turns players away from what they are already used to. I think the way you acquire g1s right now is fine and is on a fair playing field for everyone to get. I think with what you would like see added should be something different from great ones. Something just as unique and special but not g1’s specifically. I like your ideas for the different racks and stuff, sounds like trophies I would love to go for! Thanks for this discussion, I find your ideas fun! 🙂

lapis yacht
# polar bolt Good points ya have here. I just feel if you have multiple ways of acquiring gre...

i'm glad to hear it and I'm aware its a stretch on current gen and will most likely be a feature for the 3rd gen title but I can dream. But I still feel G1's need rdm variations as I suggested over the 3-6 base models at the least. To me it'll make them more appealing to see over the same models over n over. Dont get me wrong I love them but I'd like more variations realistically in a lodge viewing; over seeing 5-12 lodges with the exact same 3-6 model G1's if that makes sense. So lets say lvl 6 Hard-10 Fabled have the random variations & 1-5 are normal models. I feel this would be a fair suggestion & compromise.

lapis yacht
# polar bolt Good points ya have here. I just feel if you have multiple ways of acquiring gre...

Also my method to G1 through genetic culling is still % rarity so it still isn't easy to get the 30pt buck monster 🤣 but it gives casuals a way to be more immersive. This is an alternative method that still takes time as a 2nd option to 250-1000+ kills grinders are used to so, its 2 ways instead of 1. More simply its a 2nd mechanic w/ current is the idea. Still Random based just 1 is the immersive/casual way & the other is the grinder/sacrifices if that makes sense. At the same time both have opportunities to get really cool variations as they appear. Casuals population cull herds for better trophies, while grinders wipe herds for new renders. I believe this is fair bc both sides get a mechanic while still having fair odds of G1 Spawns.

polar bolt
#

Are you suggesting that g1 features can be in difficulties lower than fabled? Just wanted to clarify. 🙂

#

(Also I be at work so replying will be random. But I’m really enjoying the convo.)

lapis yacht
#

No not at all. I'm suggesting Lvl:6 Hard up to Lvl:10 Fable utilize the random generator While Lvl: 1-5 are standard plain models. Example: Lvl: (6) 8x8's/ (7) 7x8's-11x9/ (8) 12x12/ (9) drop tine 8x9/ (10) 28pt thorn bush/ 2x drop tine 20x20 etc.

#

Essentially they get bigger & more naraly starting at lvl 6 up to lvl 10. 10 still being G1 tier monsters

polar bolt
#

Sorry all tne numbers confuse me so I don’t full understand. But I do see what ya mean with diff1-5 and and 6-10. I see you would like separate rack options? Just to pick your brain and, but not necessarily change the subject, how would you apply this to animals that don’t have horns or antlers? 🙂

lapis yacht
#

Since skulls are common in this case, visible animal sizes & fur texture/shades (age). Turkeys beards and spurs/ other birds can be size based as well.

#

Ex. Bobcats are a furbearers game. Its based on size and fur quality & pattern however if I recall cotw uses the skull as the trophy rating.

#

Turkeys have always been beards & spurs and I guess the fan feathers in some places.

lapis yacht
polar bolt
#

Thank you for explaining 🙏 Would you compare these features to be like rare fur types but for horns and antlers?

#

And only on animal diff6-9? What about animals that max diff at 3?

lapis yacht
# polar bolt Thank you for explaining 🙏 Would you compare these features to be like rare fur...

In a way yes/no. Drop tines and certain thickness in eye guards and color can be semi common or rather rare. That varies for each species whitetail deer yea this would be rare for droptines and chocolate brown antlers with mass. As for the lower lvl game like rabbits for example it would be size/weight. Furs would be the rarity in this case. Unless they give us flemish rabbits capable of growing from 15-50lbs n yes they exist their pretty wild.

#

My WT on my wall irl is a 5 x 5 with nearly 2in thick antlers with 9in tall eye guards. Well 4x5 bc he has a broken point but he also weighed 260lbs. This was an older deer but rather large for a WT Deer, however antler wise is rare on this scale. Mule deer are much bigger antler wise.

elfin island
# polar bolt Great ones are not impossible for casual/realistic hunters. They are just not go...

they are nearly impossible if your playstyle doesn't revolve around maxing out your kills, unless you're insanely lucky. EW needs to consider that not everyone shoots everything they see

Grinders are a minority, and great ones arent necessarily intended to be acquired through grinding anyway. I say if EW is going to keep making great ones they should make them possible by more than one kind of player. By no means am i saying it should be easy, but some of us are hunters, not killers.

lapis yacht
# elfin island they are nearly impossible if your playstyle doesn't revolve around maxing out y...

I dont disagree casual/purist players dont get them near as often as grinders who figured out you kill so many it forces it to spawn between 250-1000+ same species kills. Which is why Im suggesting the immersion route for casuals, while grinders do what they do. Casuals get a culling mechanic & grinders well kill everything to get new rendors. Both sides win. Do I agree with grinding not really, but who am I to say differently. I'm a casual player and I simply want more immersion for the animals we hunt.

warm owl
#

It's better not to have mentioned this, you want to have a GO and don't want it big?? my god man.

elfin island
#

I don't know what you're hearing, but that's not really what i said.
all power to you if you can stomach it but grinding objectively sucks, i don't wanna see animals as respawns, it ruins the game for me and many others.

It seems contradictory for those who play the game as intended to never see a GO. With the way i suggested it would still be just as rare, just not based on kills.

#

you could also still get them by grinding if this hypothetical feature was implemented so i'm not really sure what your issue with it is ¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

unless you're responding to Lt Wolf lmfao maybe im talking to a wall here

warm owl
# elfin island what does this mean

bro, you can get it because my colleague got a GO playing casual. But it just takes a long time. the countryside and leave it the way it was

elfin island
#

I'm just proposing another means of spawning that isn't correlated to kills my guy. again, not saying it shouldn't be rare, or that you shouldn't have to work for it. if you actually read my first post you'll see they'd be only temporarily on your map, so in most cases you'd never even know its there before it leaves. You'd still get one a lot quicker through grinding, but not everybody shoots everything they see.

#

GOs are a grinders club. IMO it will drive players away seeing hype-based GO development being favored over things they actually might get to use. I think If EW wants to keep making GOs they should at least consider this. The solution literally harms no one.

lapis yacht
# elfin island I'm just proposing another means of spawning that isn't correlated to kills my g...

Look Idk what I came bk to but dont worry about it. You have a good alternative and I also made a good suggestion as an alternative. There's going to be tension because there's 2 sides and grinders rely on G1's as a reward were casuals see it as a rare encounter. They get touchy when a mechanic they rely on gets tampered with & fight it to no end. Your suggestion & mine in no way effects them so ignore it your good.

warm owl
elfin island
#

That's all I mean to say

polar bolt
#

(Now that I am home I've reread OPs post and are more clear on what they're asking for.) Rather than just me saying "there is already a way to spawn great ones, we really don't need another because they're already available to everyone" I'd love to explore how a "Wandering Great One" would work. First off I wouldn't have them randomly spawn at the start of a session, I could see this being exploited by camping possible frequent spawn points. What's stopping someone from just restarting the game over and over? I would make it be a rng based spawn while actively playing the game. I would also make it duration based while in the same session (on the fence about the "same session" bit due to the possibility of unforeseen crashes.) But yeah, I'd love to explore this more!

lapis yacht
# polar bolt (Now that I am home I've reread OPs post and are more clear on what they're aski...

You do have a valid point. I once suggested 1 G1 a week kinda like how the Angler does there legendary fish but instead of being in the same location its randomly placed on the reserve wandering the reserve for the entire week unless you happen to find it. "This only applies to solo btw" So ? What about maps that have the same species, I could get 4 Whitetail G1's yay! No its 1 harvest only a week on any map you choose that has the GO species. So if its the Whitetail G1 & you happen to stumble on it on Mississippi and harvest it thats it, till the next week Moose G1, 3rd week Blk Bear, etc. Basically, a weekly event spawn but you only get notified its been seen but thats all you get the rest falls on you. Of course, Grinders shot it down in a heartbeat bc it effects there playstyle and devalues rarity. Personally, I dislike the bragging bc they found a loophole to get it faster. But I could care less about rarity of G1's for bragging if you only have 3-6 fixed variants.

#

But thats why I looked at WotH & the genetics mechanic makes way more sense culling herds to gain % of different variations for some awesome looking trophies at random based on your choices. Eventually you could get a G1 but until then you get some really good-looking deer/(Any Game) for your lodge just like irl. Bc no one deer or game animal should be identical. G1s shouldn't be fixed models they should be 1 of 100+ variations (Generator creates them randomly using base models as reference for the ai, so it'll nearly always be different) . For the sake of In-game animal level systems lvl (6): Hard - lvl (10) will have the random generator while lvl (1-5) are standard game models. You get the idea this is the Casual immersive route. While Grinders can continue to massacre herds to get new renders and get it eventually as well. Creates fair play for both sides because lvl (10) Fabled aka G1 isn't guaranteed. Its chance.

polar bolt
#

I like your idea of one G1 a week but I also see this turning into somethin that could just be farmed easily. Your idea would not really affect grinders but I do seeing it devalue the G1 just a little bit unfortunately. I do agree that G1's could use some more features of furs/size/racks/horns ect. But, if we are going to add features to difficulties lower than 10 I think they should be labeled something other than Great Ones. Because 10 is a difficulty not just a label telling you it's special. I'd like to throw in the word "Uniques." What do you think?

lilac nova
#

W take

lapis yacht
polar bolt
#

Care to explain more. I'd love to hear your take. 🙂

lapis yacht
# polar bolt Care to explain more. I'd love to hear your take. 🙂

So as the game stands it has the difficulty rating in the info. I feel this is too easy to select game. Ditch it entirely. When you hunt irl you go off of sight and experience. Ex. You can easily tell a deer by maturity & rack by sight. Which would you take a 3 x 3 fork small body or a large body 8 x 8?

#

Difficulty shouldn't be a visual aid in your stats when you spot an animal. Fur size age this is what you see.

polar bolt
#

Your right. I can't remember though, when you start out fresh do you see the difficulty by default? I think it's added by the skill tree right?

lapis yacht
#

I believe so however the skills and perks to me are seriously flawed

polar bolt
#

Large 8x8 btw 🙂 Oh I agree. And outdated if you ask me.

#

If we had skill tress that were focused toward immersion, I think that could be super fun.

lapis yacht
# polar bolt Large 8x8 btw 🙂 Oh I agree. And outdated if you ask me.

Exactly you have an estimate of its score from sight until you harvest the animal. At that point you get the tru score or tru racks I think EW calls it. To me this lvl mechanic is too rpg based if you want a true huntin game ditch the exclusive levels and hunt by sight and actual game info like a true hunter would.

polar bolt
#

I like it honestly. Hunting by sight sounds pretty fun, and it works into your idea of how you would like to see these new Great Ones be added into the game. And with 100s of combos you've described for your 6-9 (10) animals, you will never get bored of seeing the same big trophy again. A thumbs up from me!

lapis yacht
#

now thats my take for immersive players however grinders would need to adapt or simply kill everything as they already do to eventually render a monster. The issue here is you cull lvl 4 and above to eventually have a lvl 3 turn into a 7 or 8 to a 9 n after brutally repeating this you get a fabled. Tell me how this isn't catered to defeating the rng mechanic?

lapis yacht
polar bolt
#

I don't think so actually. This way of playing could be made possible with an addition of an immersion tree.

lapis yacht
polar bolt
#

Sure, I'll take a look but I wont lie, it might be over my head 🙂

lapis yacht
#

But this☝ is why I say ditch the level system and have the generator randomly generate the % genetics in herds and social groups. Hunt species by sight. When observing it tells you (•Fur type •Age •Size •Score estimate). Solo illusive game usually are apart till breeding season which is why I also wanted the 4 seasons for breeding behaviors. Coyotes are solo or in groups of 3 during the day but at night could be 5 to 10+.

#

But yea I love this game in general but it has so much more potential to be so immersive to be a AAA title if done right.

polar bolt
#

For sure! Thanks for the back and forth my friend, I really enjoyed chatting these ideas with you! I'm gonna be off for the night! 🙂

lapis yacht
elfin island
# polar bolt (Now that I am home I've reread OPs post and are more clear on what they're aski...

Good point, I’m not sure of the games inner machinations so maybe it could be exploited. maybe it could be based on a calendar day/week rather than a session.

I think duration based is the way to go too but I think same session is risky due to crashing, and because exploring a whole map is pretty time consuming. Nobody has the energy to search the whole map every time they get on, a longer period would encourage people to just move around more in general even if they aren’t necessarily working for a GO.

elfin island
#

Up

dense jewel
# elfin island Good point, I’m not sure of the games inner machinations so maybe it could be ex...

A date or time constraint can be done quite easily by using the already existing Apex accounts built into the game .... The apex accounts are server based accounts that are controlled and secured by EW so much less prone to hacking or player manipulation....

So it would be pretty straight forward for them to poll the date of your last login to determine the amount of time/days that have passed. If they only want to allow resets once a RT week then they can do that quiet reliably and without to much difficulty....

This feature is in most of the proposals put forth here in this thread on alternate ways to get a G1 ..... https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1242416386031091753

I also put a link to this thread in the OP as an alternate option ....

polar bolt
#

I don't feel quite right basing a mechanic on having to be connected to the internet. Otherwise I like the idea. 🙂

dense jewel
lapis yacht
dense jewel
#

If I understand you correctly it would require the client to run on EW managed servers .... We have been told that with the age of the client and code this is not possible or highly unlikely .....

lapis yacht
# dense jewel If I understand you correctly it would require the client to run on EW managed ...

What you said refers more towards the response for cross-play & testing bc PC/Sony/Xbox have there own clients. However it would lean towards them (xbox/sony) for servers. But yes Official servers for the reserves would be alot better in the long haul. But that leans more towards a 3rd Gen title. As of right now I'd rather have the genetic culling method for the immersion & casuals. Grinders can still grind, after they wipeout a herd/group a new group renders in its place. Its a % game to get a G1 & its not predictable. Its literally chance. As of right now ppl figured to kill these lvl's and kill 100's-1000's of the same species & eventually spawns. Its predictable bc you know it will spawn you just dont know how many kills. As I stated earlier in the thread Lvl1-5 stay as standard models while 6-10 use the random ai generator to create new fresh looking game. They progressively get bigger from 6-10 (10 being G1). WotH has this mechanic, and I loved the idea. The Medal system should be based on ethical harvest only, not trophy rating. Trophy rating goes towards the lvl of the animal & irl or Tru-Rac's EW did for trophy scoring. As for the display its purely based off of sight like you would IRL. Estimated "Size, Age, Fur color". You shouldn't be able to tell an animals lvl and exact score when spotting it You get that info when you harvest it.

elfin island
elfin island
#

uppies