People Need To Stop Dividing The Community.

[solemn delta]

I personally hate seeing the casual play versus grinding play debate. You can play both ways. I actually do play both ways. It doesn't hurt anyone with how someone else plays. If this game was only grinding or only casual I wouldn't play it. I love the fact we have both options.

Some nights I'm in a mood where I just want to pop some rounds off and some nights I may be in the mood to stalk through the brush and be surprised at what I find or surprised at what finds me 😂.

I see so many useless arguments that is just dividing us all. We all apparently love this game or we wouldn't be here. Let's stop the arguments and let everyone play the way they want.

[pallid tiger]

I honestly think that this update, instead of separate us, it has brought the whole community together. It's quite funny to see the community come together to voice our concern about this update. I'm just hoping they revert the change 🙏

[pine yoke]

It’s not that simple. It’s almost the same as if the democrat hunters are fighting with the republicans
There’s no end

[solemn delta]

But it can be simple. I see people talking about casual like they are awful and people saying grinders are awful. It's a game that can cater to both playstyles and I think the devs do a pretty decent job trying to do that.

People can have their opinion on what they like ,but they don't have to look down on someone because they casual hunt or grind. It's a game and not real life. We should respect the person regardless of their playstyles is all im saying.

Also I don't do politics. It's all mostly lies 😂

[cursive crown]

To all,

Let people play how they want, how and what they do in their games affects no one but themselves.

Focus on how you play and you should be golden.

[drifting scroll]

They could make an update that allows you to insta kill every animal on the map and auto tax all trophies that were killed for free and some people would still be justifying it with the "let people play how they want/you don't have to play that way" argument. There has to be a line somewhere where that argument no longer works.

[cursive crown]

Silly and extreme examples don’t provide credible arguments

[unique sundial]

Let us play how we want to play this is a single player game it only effects you if you choose the play said way🙏

[solemn delta]

I highly doubt many people would be on board with that. I agree there has to be a line. I actually support the bug fix. I personally just want more options to place a Tent a Sundarpatan.

The point I'm making is people shouldn't belittle people because they play a different playstyle.

[pine yoke]

Except only people that grind are the most rewarded. I’ve been playing for 5 years now and only have one great one. I refuse to grind and I know many people that are the same.

[drifting scroll]

That's why I said some people. My point is that argument will still be made regardless of how bad it gets.

[pine yoke]

Until we get a mediation, we will remain separated unfortunately

[cursive crown]

That’s great, but the rarity of these things hasn’t changed, but we’ve got less of them? That helps no one.

And beyond that if people want to play in a certain way let them, it affects no one but themselves

[solemn delta]

But that's why I mentioned useless arguments in the post. EW has a vision of what they want their game to be. They would never allow something like that in game so what's the point of arguing over it.

I personally think grinding and causal both have a place in this game and luckily for me it looks like EW feels the same. As you can see from EWs actions they don't want it out of control in either direction.

When I say let people play how they want, it's not directed at EW. They are already doing that with the restrictions they decide.

[unique sundial]

How's it out of control though most grinders seem to want the freedom of choice to play how we want to and non grinders to play how they want too
We are literally just fighting for freedom of choice
In a single player game

[solemn delta]

It's not out of control. I basically said EW is doing a good job of not letting it get out of control. I see every update they usallay do something that benefits both playstyles. I play both ways so I see it.

[unique sundial]

How does this update benefit non grinders them not tryna be rude or attack bit just genuinely curious

[solemn delta]

The spook radius was reduced. They didn't have to do that. It was a compromise since they put a bug out that completely removed it.

I thought you said grinders

[hasty loom]

No because they keep destroying the grinding play style over and over and over and over again. So no we can’t all play how we want because I want to play the grinding play style and it’s basically been destroyed now. This is a video game meant to be fun this is not a simulator. You should be able to play the game how you want but right now the grinding play style is being targeted and repeatedly destroyed.

[solemn delta]

Why was the update supposed to benefit non grinders. The map itself was a benefit to non grinders. Have you seen the brush lol

[west beacon]

I don’t think the update was intended to benefit or harm any playstyle. I think it was more focused on their vision for the game more than anything.

[hasty loom]

Good for you some of us want to play this game to grind. They keep making that play style harder and harder and harder is that fair? If they want to remove grinding just tell us so the grinders can uninstall the game and we can take our money elsewhere.

[glass skiff]

Tbh I think this updates description was some what vague, like the animals will respawn after a normal time, what does that mean???

I’m a casual player, however I don’t like this update tbh

[unique sundial]

That's what I'm trying to figure some non grinders say they support the update when it just removes the choice for grinders to play how we want to play in a mainly singleplayer game the patch only hurts grinders hence and the devs won't acknowledge it hence where the divide comes from grinders just want the freedom of choice

[unique sundial]

Basically they removed a thing where you could leave the map and rejoin and all animals shot would instantly respawn which has been a big tool for grinders and now it's been removed even though the devs never even spoke of it previously which really hurts grinding

[glass skiff]

I know that but how long do you have to wait for animals to respawn that is what I’m wonder

[unique sundial]

20-30min for everything except Tigers Tigers take even longer

[glass skiff]

What were they thinking with this update??????

[unique sundial]

So the update benefits no one but hurts grinders alot

[unique sundial]

I wish I could tell you

[glass skiff]

Definitely, I was trying to get my first great one but after this, I probably won’t, this update now makes grinding way harder and makes grinding a more daunting process

[west beacon]

May I suggest something they weren’t thinking? They weren’t thinking let’s screw over grinders or let’s ruin the game. Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt

[unique sundial]

I was trying to get my first too but not anymore till these are reverted

[solemn delta]

I don't see how it removes our choice. They even reduced the spook radius. Sure they may have tweaked it to give a challenge but why would you want your trophies with no challenge. You can still grind. I think I may go try out this reduced spook radius and do some grinding now 😂

[glass skiff]

When they make updates, I hope they focus more on benefiting players, there were so many changes even before this that were unnecessary, like making gemsbok class 6, making pronghorn class 3, and now this, this game is not realistic anymore, make it an enjoyable hunting experience

[unique sundial]

The reduced spook radius is the only positive thing about the update still negative overall tents didn't need to be changed and neither did the instant respawns it removed to choice to play in a time friendly manner and even before trophies from grinding were still challenging hell even with no spook and instant respawn it still took days weeks or even months for something like a great one

[glass skiff]

Until they revert the changes I will probably just multiplayer hop ngl

[west beacon]

Animals not spooking when you fast travelled needed to be changed

[unique sundial]

Again why? It is a single player game ones playstyle effects no one else's

[glass skiff]

Yea, that was kinda busted to be on top of the animal and for them not to spook

[west beacon]

See snakes comment below

[unique sundial]

How is it busted it's a singleplayer game? They still spooked when you start moving and you're still not shooting more than 1 without great aim and recoil control

[west beacon]

At some point, we have to draw the line for what is a video game and what is a representation of real life. If we want this to be a real life experience, then animals need to spook when you come up on them that close

[glass skiff]

Exactly we have to draw a line between a realistic hunting experience and an enjoyable one

[west beacon]

If we are going to go so far as to say that this just needs to be a video game, then I understand why people think these things don’t need to be changed. But the fact of the matter is this is supposed to be a more realistic game than that so I understand why the changes made.

[unique sundial]

Again the freedom of choice it's singleplayer you could choose to play that way if you wanted if this was a multiplayer game I would agree but it's not so why step on what others enjoy I agree that the tent changes are fine but still an unnecessary one in my eyes as it only effected you if you actively used it

[glass skiff]

Overall I think we can all agree for the most part that this update was not a good update, most of the changes are unnecessary and that most of these changes need to be reverted

[unique sundial]

The freedom of choice has always been cotws strong suit compared to other hunting games if one person has fun one way there's no need in telling them hey you can't do that as it's singleplayer and hasn't ever been a more realistic game

[west beacon]

OK, I genuinely need you to clearly explain to me how your freedom of choice to grind has been taken away. I understand that it has been changed. It has been made more difficult and I can understand that that would be a frustrating thing, but I just don’t understand how this is impacted your actual choice and grinding or not you know can you help me understand?

[unique sundial]

Exactly I just wish people would see the side that having freedom to choose how you play

[unique sundial]

20-30 min respawns is not really grinding atp its no longer time efficient for those with little time to play my whole point is not just for grinding but the choice to play however you want and I don't understand the pushback of having that choice cause as I've said it's single player no one else's playstyle hurts your own so why does it matter how one person plays compared to someone else that's my whole argument

[west beacon]

Give me like 20 minutes and I’ll respond to this. I just have something I have to do quickly.

[unique sundial]

Mkay

A survey was posted on the game for those who want to see changes reverted please take the survey and make your voice heard but remember to be respectful

[west beacon]

OK, but how is that choice actually been taken away? I can agree that the efficiency of a grind has been diminished with the choice to grind still exists so I don’t understand why you feel that the choice has been removed.

[zenith orbit]

True though i 100 percent think more ppl want it reverted since it’s not really benefiting anyone

[unique sundial]

It hasn't been fully removed but most definitely harmed they're obviously trying to get people steer away from grinding whether by shift in the games vision or discontent for grinders thus trying to remove the choice by making it so time consuming or difficult to the point it's demoralizing

[west beacon]

Ok that I can understand. You can view the change as harming the play style. That’s totally valid. But let’s stop saying it’s gone. That there’s no choice anymore.

[unique sundial]

It is gone though if you don't have the time to wait 30 min for respawns

[west beacon]

Again let’s work towards a solution to solve that issue. Maybe grind methods can change to accommodate this. Or let’s propose a change in the timing. Let’s WORK TOGETHER to find a happy medium.

[unique sundial]

Idk I'm kinda Done arguing about it cause it keeps going in circles at the end of the day people just want the choice to do their playstyle as I've said it's singleplayer so I don't see the point in a medium when it's not multiplayer a survey is up though ingame I made my suggestions and points there not truing to be rude I'm just tired and it's been a long day of discussions

[shrewd fractal]

I always wanted to know was that a initial spawn or just got lucky with a respawn

[manic raven]

If you don’t like EW… you should probably just go…

[west beacon]

That’s what I mean. Forget the argument let’s brainstorm a solution.

[unique sundial]

But the suggestion I give seems to hold no weight to you it's singleplayer so I don't see the point of harming grinding in exchange for benefits to no even with a shorter timer it still only effects people that grind

[west beacon]

Ok I understand you feel that way. But do you really think that’s gonna happen? Like it might but like suggesting a shorter timer or more zones or something may be more received?

[unique sundial]

Thank you for understanding and in all honesty I don't see it happening but here's to hoping thank you though for being one of the more cordial and reasonable people on the matter though and again I'm sorry for not continuing and genuinely am just tired and upset

[solemn delta]

I am currently testing to see if respawns actually take that long. If it does I was thinking of one work around. You could do a rotation on one map then swap to another grind on a different map to give the other map time to respawn. I am skeptical on that respawn time frame though

[west beacon]

No worries. A break could do us all good likely

[atomic crane]

Why don’t you just hunt for a different species as you wait for respawns.

[civic olive]

I tried that with fallow then switching to bear but it didn't work for me, still try it maybe i took less time then we need

[unique sundial]

Yea most likely have a good rest of your day/night though

[manic raven]

I’m not offended, There’s plenty of people that should just go and need to hear that buddy.

[shrewd fractal]

What did I miss

[west beacon]

Nothing. Just you know the greatest schism since the Protestant reformation.

[shrewd fractal]

Dang thought someone took it too far lol

[west beacon]

Oh no. Not too far yet.

[solemn delta]

So I just did 2 rotations with my Moose setup and for the most part I had respawns. I had like two zones not there when I came back ,but I hit some other places and came back and they were there. It seems to be working for me. I will mention that my rotation is a lager rotation. I usallay run 20 or so zones.

[pulsar yew]

To be fair, I've only seen a very small number of people who are extremely anti-grinding being very aggressive a few weeks ago on a couple of threads, like the tiger 3-lake one. This also caused a couple of grinders to get a little defensive too. That seems to have all calmed down now. I've not been on much recently so could be wrong on that. There will always be heated topics and campaigns on here that people feel extremely passionate about, like elephants, bear resets and the gun one..eesh!😂
It was good to hear Jaxy discuss this today. Although, for the most part, I often see people disagreeing on some threads and being very civil and friendly on others.
Bottom line, play your way to your heart's content and don't worry how others are playing. Which I think is what the vast majority do, anyway.

[west beacon]

Yessirrrrr

[pulsar yew]

Another thing to consider is, if you really do not get on with someone, just ignore them. Don't sit on their threads or posts for days and weeks after. It's kind of weird and creepy.

[clever vessel]

Life is too short to be upset about something as trivial like this. Grind if you want or don’t. Hunt if you want or don’t.

[real nexus]

People who grind are the most rewarded because they are willing to put in the work to get a Great One on their map! If you prefer run + gun and play the game "lazy" you probably never will spawn a Great One because they have spawn chance of 0.02 %. So please stop complaining and stop bashing the people who grind. Having a Great One, a super rare, a rare or a diamond in the lodge is the ultimate achievement for most of the people who are playing this game. This is just my personal opinion 😉

[manic raven]

Who cares?

[pulsar yew]

Not helpful.

[unkempt lantern]

@real nexus well spoken.

[pine yoke]

Here we go again 😝

[pine yoke]

You literally just admitted exactly what I’ve been saying, so thank you 🙏🏻

[lucid pollen]

Why do they try to balance a hunting game? Lmfao

[deft kiln]

Honestly, the update should've never happened. If we bought the game, then we should be allowed to play whatever way we want to. The devs are making us play the way they want us to, instead of letting us play the way we want to. I support both sides in this. If someone doesn't feel like grinding, then they don't have to. If someone wants to, then they can. The game is not competitive, and it is being treated as if it is. Hopefully people can see eye to eye with this

[west beacon]

Ok but like grinding still can happen. It is different and less efficient but possible. I don’t understand the notion that people are forced to play a certain way.

[lucid pollen]

We ain’t beta testers lol 😂 so the people who grinded tigers before it was an apparent exploit yeah thanks for rewarding glitch abuse to grinders and making it even more difficult for the casual absolute brain dead move by a LA Based company it’s quite a shame but just the reality of the type of game developers they are. In the beginning of this game was adding free content like species now you want us to also buy some cosmetics for weapons. What a joke

[deft kiln]

It's not the ability if it is possible or not. It's the idea that they want to suppress a large amount of the player bases playstyle. I understand they believe the game should be played outside of grinding, but some prefer to grind so they can get their dream achievements faster. The players can always choose whether or not they want to grind or not, they shouldn't be forced to choose one option. Personally, I don't grind, but I see why the grinders are upset. Hopefully they can see our concerns, and fix the situation. I hate seeing the community divided like this over an update

[pine yoke]

That’s the most honest statement I’ve heard in a long time. Pretty much spot on accurate. The game should reward you for having patience, persistence and dedication. It should be about chance and luck. Not only if you grind

[lucid pollen]

Should have gotten those rares when you can 🤣🤣😭😭😭

[west beacon]

I see why the grinders are upset. But I just don’t think that the devs are as out to get them as it seems. I do agree that we should work together as different playstyles to offer a solution rather than divide.

[manic raven]

I just wanted a 59 tiger😭😭😭

[deft kiln]

Yep, whatever the player finds the most rewarding is what matters. At the end of the day, we're all here to have a fun time hunting

[pine yoke]

That’s how it all started. It was so awesome. We had the greatest community out there. Then I took a long break. Now look where we are 🙄

[deft kiln]

Hopefully everything goes back to normal 🙏

[solemn delta]

I'm wondering if the issue with people's respawns is because their map is shot down to much. They aren't hitting enough zones to allow the respawn. I hit around 20 zones and it seemed to be working.

When I grind I'm not doing it for the trophies. That is a bonus but when I grind I'm mainly doing it to keep my mind occupied. Some nights I get extremely bored just walking the map. Some nights i don't need to quiten the mind and I can casually hunt.

[west beacon]

What’s normal anymore…

[lucid pollen]

bigger incentive to cheat if you let a glitch like that linger for this long from the release. All you do is decrease the odds to the grinder now imagine the casual it’s even harder? Why not hack to increase the odds like it was on the last patch for tigers? What’s that saying? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it

[pine yoke]

Only glitches that were good were unlimited tree stands and the water buffalo trap one for new players

[deft kiln]

I personally liked the lodge one that allowed us to place stuff on any sized mount. I loved putting only antlers on little mounts

[pine yoke]

Yes that one was really good too

[prisma shadow]

I don't get where this notion of "it's singleplayer so I should be able to do whatever I want" comes from. I've seen it several times in this thread and others.

A game is defined by its rules. What sets one game apart from another is the list of things are and aren't allowed to happen. When you buy a game you're literally paying for a set of rules to follow. The rules make the experience. And since devs have a particular experience in mind when they make a game, they're going to bring that about with relevant restrictions on what you can and cannot do.

The people who are asking for better communication and quality control so that we get a clearer idea of the devs' intentions are totally justified. But I don't get the "it's singleplayer" argument. At the end of the day you paid money so that the devs can tell you what's possible in the world they created.

[pale stratus]

Except it's not what we paid for, it changes constantly and we get no say in it

[prisma shadow]

I'd encourage anyone who feels that way to speak with their wallet and stop giving EW money.

[pale stratus]

How would that help? Whether or not you buy the dlc the update comes through. Anyone on console has no choice and PC players have to play an older version

[prisma shadow]

I wasn't implying it would "fix" the game for them. But it would also be foolish to keep paying for a product you no longer want. And it's a company: to really have a chance at making a point you've got to hit them where it hurts.

[lucid pollen]

Looks like the player council missed big time 🫵😂

As if the game isn’t a walking simulator already 🤣

[pine oxide]

So you playing for 5 years without grinding WILLINGLY means that the people who spend hours heck even days and weeks on a grind has to be punished cause our efforts and time being put in is being rewarded?

If you don’t want to grind good for you but people who do grind doesn’t affect your or your trophies or play style at all, if you feel like your trophy isn’t valuable cause of a grinders trophy you clearly don’t value your trophy enough.

[pine yoke]

How are you being punished? Grinding is the key to great ones

[pine oxide]

Because the last updates have been to shut down grinders, tahr for example they don’t have a drink zone at all that sets grinders back and it was INTENDED words by EW. Grinders found a way to make it work and what happens all of a sudden it is a “bug that needs fixing” which is the update that came out today which again screwed grinders. Now please explain how grinders are not being punished.

And what is gonna happen? Grinders will find a way to make it work and then another update will happen to “fix the bug”

[pine yoke]

The Tahr is one great one. I think there are still 6 others that will work just fine

[pine oxide]

Think of it from a grinders perspective you are doing it to shoot animals, having to wait 20 irl minutes (just a number example) on an arcade shooter to shoot animals is not fun at all. You are a run and gun player so it doesn’t affect you as much or at all it may or may not I don’t know. But it 100% affects grinders and not in a good way at all.

[pine yoke]

I’m far from a run and gun player

I’ve literally stalked almost every big Diamond in the game by scouting out areas and setting up tree stands

[pine oxide]

But in the end it should NOT matter if someone grinds or run and guns, someone else’s trophy does not affect mine at all and mine shouldn’t affect them in any way possible. And what I meant is you don’t grind so my point still stands that it may not affect you like it affects grinders, but at the same time it might I don’t know only you do.

[pine yoke]

Nobody is gaining anything from this update. It’s just as difficult for both of us. Thus it’s still not any easier to hunt realistic style like I do

All I want is for the great ones to be more feasible for us real hunters. Doesn’t mean it won’t still be easy for grinders

[pine oxide]

Which someone made a thread saying to make 2 different gamemodes one meant for grinders and one meant for casual players such as yourself, I think we can all agree that this update that happened today was definitely not a good idea by EW.

#1265527548188557332

[pine yoke]

To be fair I haven’t even noticed a difference in today’s update. What did it even entail?

[pine oxide]

The spook radius is 180 meters when you fast travel to a tent, and you have to wait around 20+ irl minutes sitting on the map for an animal to respawn. One of my friends waited 40 minutes and still didn’t get a respawn.

[pine yoke]

Hmmm

So is it all animals take 20 min to respawn now or just this map?

[lucid pollen]

Once Jaxy mentioned player councils, I heard enough for today. Can't believe we adding sh** that doesn't work into a successful predecessor. It would be like changing spawn rates cause someone is catching a particular species too much at one or two lakes in the dead game called theAngler? Do you have any idea how bad this type of game development is in terms of game balance they cant patch anything or when they do it takes a whole month. Allowing people to exploit a bug for so long it even become normalized till they finally decide to not be lazy and release a new patch, isnt good game balance.

[astral osprey]

is it unreal i killed 1000 tigers and i didn’t get a rare ? and only 6 diamonds , i guess i can just throw away my dream of a pseudo mela tiger

[pine oxide]

It could take 20 minutes in all honesty the best way to tell is to look at a pop scanner I’m not condoning it but for 100% certainty on how long it could take that’s the best bet.

[pine yoke]

I got one 🐯

[lucid pollen]

You killed too many tigers, said EW

[astral osprey]

pop scanners and mods are only possible on pc us console players pretty much just gotta wrap up the g1 grinds might actually take multiple years of grinding to get a tahr 💀😭

[pine yoke]

If you ask me I think it had to do with certain Content Creators getting a little too many G1s and people started getting suspicious

[pine oxide]

Do you not like certain content creator grinding?

[dull knoll]

They're against the rules, so I would advise not talking about them in this server

[upper wren]

most likely being ibuy because hes the main one with alot of GOs

[pine oxide]

He streams all his grinds start to finish so idk what there is to be suspicious about.

[astral osprey]

i haven’t even seen a diamond white tail that wasn’t in someone’s lodge before with 10 plus days of time on this game i might just actually have the worst luck oat

[upper wren]

and tank which im pretty sure is #2 streams almost all of them too so theres not much to be suspicious about its just a dumb excuse to get what you want

[pine yoke]

You can easily enter cheats before the stream lol

[zenith fable]

I'm on console

[upper wren]

and what take hours to get that trophy and hard grinding on stream??????

[pine oxide]

With that logic what’s stopping you from pop reseting until you find a trophy on your map using cheats like the one I named in this message?

[pine yoke]

These guys are professional

[astral osprey]

i will never be impressed by a pc lodge purely because i guarantee 97% of large cotw creators cheat thier rares in regardless

[upper wren]

which is dumb af because they stream most of their hours in the game crazy

[pine yoke]

It makes the game look tacky

[pine oxide]

Blizzy and tank are on play station and there is no way to cheat on that and they stream their grinds start to finish.

[pine yoke]

I can’t even open up a mp game anymore without someone spawning in super rares on my map

[zenith fable]

Yes sir proffessional grinder, 5.7k hours and over 130k harvests. The vast majority has been streamed live. Now please explain how I'm cheating on console and why?

[upper wren]

yes you can

[pine oxide]

That is not how that works that is tied to your map, if supers are being spawned into multi then that is you using cheats someone else CANNOT spawn supers and great ones on your map.

[upper wren]

there is tons of multis without cheats yes there is also alot with cheats and somebody else cant spawn stuff on your map

[pine yoke]

Yup cuz I cheat so much to get super rares 😆

[lucid pollen]

They left the tiger exploit so content creators can promote the map

[pine oxide]

^^

[upper wren]

you basically cant now didnt they fix tigers

[pine yoke]

Oh and tons of great ones too

[onyx grotto]

@pine yoke EZ fix don't go on multi-player and STOP COMPLAINING

[pine oxide]

If you were to make a multiplayer and I hop on your map I cannot spawn in supers like you claimed has happen, only the person who hosted the map can do that so explain this cause im genuinely confused.

[pine yoke]

That’s what you think

[upper wren]

come on go ahead and prove that mfs can spawn stuff on your map come on prove it i wanna see it please

[lucid pollen]

Your spawns are not his

[urban pelican]

Some sort of proof would be nice

[pine yoke]

The technology is way more advanced than most of us realize unless you are the one controlling the game mods

[lucid pollen]

No every time I encounter a hacker it’s from me trying to play multiplayer. How did someone join you and spawn super rares?

[onyx grotto]

@pine yoke no one can spawn enything on your map only u can do that

[pine yoke]

I could easily get proof. One of my streams some kid spawned in with god mode and got 3 diamonds in 5 minutes

[pine oxide]

People can cheat on your map using speed hacks and pulling animals to you but someone else CANNOT spawn supers on YOUR map only the host can.

[zenith fable]

The wedge of division has been driven by non grinders for a long time now. Grinders have have only recently started to push back because we've had enough of the unwarranted dislike/hate of our playstyle and EWs BS. We don't affect other players directly in any way. Like I keep saying it;s the same type of thinking racists have, not as extreme but basically the same.

[urban pelican]

Someone else playing on god mode doesn't affect respawns. Respawns are tied to your client

[onyx grotto]

I hope you know your digging your so deep in a hole you'll never get out lol

[pine yoke]

This has nothing to do with race tank

[upper wren]

you can spawn in with god mode speed around and teleport animals to you because those cheats arent exactly file based i guess and with the pop changers you have to edit the files to spawn in animals

[lucid pollen]

My favorite bug was when I tried to join a server and got sent to a hacked server on some random map 😂

[pine oxide]

It is the same exact mindset both have

[zenith fable]

Read it s l o w l y again. Not what I said

[pine yoke]

Oh I saw it

[pine oxide]

You saw but did you actually read?

[upper wren]

put your brain cells together and understand what he is saying or did you leave them in the treestand

[pine yoke]

Yup he said were basically racist 😂 not quite but almost the same

[pine oxide]

He said it’s the same mindset if you actually read it.

[pine yoke]

Well I’m not the developer and they have all the power to do anything they want so idk what to tell you 🤷🏻‍♂️

[astral osprey]

oh um that’s not the same thing

[zenith fable]

So how is not liking someone because they are different not the same type of thinking as not liking someone because they play a video game differently?

[pine oxide]

How is it not the same mindset?

[heavy flame]

like Zua said it's the same frame of mind; it's the systematic social "othering" that was used to employ segregation and Jim Crow laws in the US (and also to gain popular support for the majority of the major genocides in the 20th century; think Pol Pot getting Cambodians to "other" people who wore glasses as westernized scum who threatened their new kingdom)

[astral osprey]

video game,,, RACISM??????? it’s a game about hunting how are you that pressed about the respawn rates of digital animals that your comparing it to RASICM

[pine oxide]

What part of MINDSET do you not understand?

[pine yoke]

@astral osprey Finally someone speaks the truth

[heavy flame]

Read my above comment dawg, that's the explanation; also he's talking about the social division in the community, not respawns in specific; it's just one problem wrapped up in the whirlwind

[zenith fable]

I didn't say anything about respawns lmao. What is this post about?

[astral osprey]

there’s absolutely no justification of this comparison of racism and a video game this is walking the right rope of hate speech atp 😭😭😭

[upper wren]

how do you not understand racism is not liking somebody because of how they are right and devs doesnt like us grinders they only like a certain play style aka run and gunners and the discriminate against grinders

[lucid pollen]

It’s also a live service game that release patches 1 month after the exploit has been known and thinks they are doing good game balance. They are probably neighbors to Blizzard 😂

[pine yoke]

It just got overboard. The R word is what people use when they are losing an argument. I don’t think he meant it though

[heavy flame]

Tank's not comparing the game to racism though, he's comparing the division in the community to racism

[zenith fable]

Some people just don't like hearing that the truth is they have a very narrow minded way of thinking I guess

[upper wren]

lmao

[lucid pollen]

They are afraid of the truth will expose their flaws

[pine yoke]

Not even close. If you want to know the perfect comparison. It’s the democrats vs republicans. We all hunt but some say guns are bad and they take there 1500 gun to the ranch once a year when the others will do anything to stand up for our 2nd amendment and hunt every chance we get

[astral osprey]

this is significantly more sensible thankyou

[zenith fable]

I've used that comparison here in this dc twice before and still nobody can explain how I'm wrong.

[heavy flame]

Except it is very close because that modern American political divide is based on the same sense of othering; look at how the two parties talk about each other then replace the words democrat and republican with slurs or other hate speech and you can see it's cut from the same cloth

[pine oxide]

Cause you aren’t and they will deflect it for example this.

[celest osprey]

what the hell is this argument 😭

[onyx grotto]

@pine yoke I hope you know that your arguing with a lot of grinders rn I hope u know amd your loseing really bad

[rocky bough]

Reminder to keep politics out of this server.

[pine yoke]

Rip

[heavy flame]

not super sure; but I'm here as an acting university student trying to get some seriously stubborn folks to stop losing the forest for the trees

[pine oxide]

Zach is speaking major facts right now.

[pine yoke]

And now we’re back to ground zero lol

[celest osprey]

god i love pointless arguments over a game 😍😍

[heavy flame]

it's the only language I speak

[zenith fable]

well you are😂

[thin cove]

This is the greatest feedback conversaion of all time

[astral osprey]

same boat here bro

[upper wren]

your definitely above the ground in the stand

[pine yoke]

Yeah I’m not trying to win. Trust me I’m not that dumb 😝

[heavy flame]

Then why be persistent in the argument? Man this has me confused

[pine yoke]

Freedom of belief

[astral osprey]

Feel like people are taking this change too seriously i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again with the past state of the game great ones didn’t even seem rare i feel like this change will reward people who grind and work for thier trophies more then people who just “trade” thier animals to 12 year olds begging for g1s on the xbox lfg 😂

[lucid pollen]

You keep talking about how this hurts the grinder? But how does this help the casual?

[heavy flame]

Yeah that's completely valid but it doesn't require the persistence you've shown it all; like you could've just come in and said "this is my opinion and I will not take further questions" then set back with popcorn and watched the fight

[celest osprey]

maybe we should accept the change and work together to find a work around to the problem rather than pointlessly arguing and getting no where but angry at eachother??? makes me wonder

[thin cove]

I agree

[astral osprey]

i agree we should adapt rather then be dinosaurs

[lucid pollen]

Can’t unite people over a senseless terrible update. That’s just poor taste

[pine yoke]

I just say how I feel and don’t sugar coat it

[upper wren]

we arent going to continue to accept changes that screw over grinders some changes arent bad but when they consistently try to make grinding not a thing its some bs

[lucid pollen]

How does this help the casual? 😂🫵🤡

[pine oxide]

EW is trying to make cotw a realistic game but need to face the reality that it is an arcade shooter not a realistic simulator.

[heavy flame]

hurts the casual too; 30-60min IRL time respawn timer on all animals now and you need to spend that time in-game consecutively; it doesn't carry over between reserves or play sessions either; also animals no longer respawn when switching reserves or restarting the game as well; in effect you need to sit still and do nothing for and hour after your last kill on a given reserve; makes playing the game significantly more difficult for people who do quick 30-45min play sessions and therefore will no longer get respawns

[upper wren]

cause it somehow makes it feel more immersive and their trophies mean more to them because they think grinders devalue things

[astral osprey]

if it’s that serious to you hop on roblox cotw lil bro

[pine yoke]

Oh that’s not good

[lucid pollen]

I know but I don’t see @astral osprey or @pine yoke explaining how this helps the casual player who hops on the game

[astral osprey]

when did i claim to be a casual player?

[pine yoke]

I already said that. It doesn’t help anyone

[celest osprey]

only change is respawns taking longer. tents are just being reverted to pre-sundar. EW is realizing their mistake as there's a huge drop in number of players. they will change stuff back sooner or later

[heavy flame]

yeah, basically they gutted the old respawn system that has been in this game functionally since release in 2017 seven years ago with no warning or justification apart from just because; what's even worse is the devs have claimed this was supposed to only be for tigers, so that means they either didn't do quality assurance and testing on the patch before they released it or they said that as damage control and this change was always intentional

[astral osprey]

hey man maybe we should go outside feel like people are way to angry at changes i respect the passion though

[thin cove]

Upending the core mechanic of your game that is what half your map layouts and dlc packs revolve around on a "hotfix" is pretty funny though ngl

[pine oxide]

Ew always makes updates that do not help the game at all and then will release a weapon pack in attemp to distract players.

[heavy flame]

and of course there's no way they thought this wouldn't cause strife and I can't help but to be cynical and think they released this super buggy update knowing the closest outlet for the community's displeasure is each other, the server mods, and Jaxy, basically meaning they can sit back and keep making sketchy decisions while the community rips itself apart (I know this is super jaded and cynical but with this whole fiasco you gotta wonder); nonetheless I digress, it's late and I'll see you folks tomorrow

[rocky bough]

My super jaded and cynical input to this is that I am not opposed to temporarily locking this thread and sending multiple people into timeout if y'all can't behave.

[lucid pollen]

Hopefully they release another patch soon but it might take a couple weeks

[heavy flame]

a cool-off is definitely needed, would just prefer if it could happen on peaceful terms

[celest osprey]

biggest problem i have with this update is that it's 35 GB

[upper wren]

how are we not behaving we are being civil

[astral osprey]

bro everyone come to my house i have enough ammo and irl animal tracking skill to get all you guys a real deer (i literally live on layton lake like im not joking)

[pine yoke]

Night Zach

[lucid pollen]

For having different opinions, stop go to sleep, that’s soft no rules being broken. Soft like there updates but touche

[rocky bough]

I do not trust this thread to not explode into arguments the second I look away.

[celest osprey]

everyone here would leave and then some other random bunch of people will start up another argument. people need to just accept it

[thin cove]

To be fair it has calmed down mostly in the past 15 minutes

[pine oxide]

We all had our say here and like bebal said it is gonna be a rinse and repeat just with other people.

[astral osprey]

yeah everyone got thier opinion out there now we are kinda just critiquing a touch

[pine oxide]

Not me im going to bed I got work in a couple hours

[shadow slate]

I feel ppl are over reacting. It fixed bugs and exploits. I see no reason why its a debate. Like any game if things change simply adapt it really is that simple.

[pine yoke]

What new rifle are you guys most looking forward to getting?

[astral osprey]

night night unc

[urban pelican]

375. Should be a better class 9 than the 300

[rocky bough]

I just hope none of them are 4-8 rifles.

[astral osprey]

the real topic at hand should be that there isn’t a 50 bmg hand gun in the game yet

[pine yoke]

Same. It should be able to drop a lion

[shadow slate]

.450Bushmaster. I never wouldve thought it would be added in till I seen it in the poll

[pine oxide]

I know I said I’m going to bed but the 300 should be able to double lung a moose easily and not only hit single lung broadside, and yeah the new one can do that if you hit front or towards spine but the older 300 doesn’t. Same with the 338.

[celest osprey]

we obviously don't have enough

[pine yoke]

Dude the 338 has like no power

[thin cove]

I have been saying this

[astral osprey]

Me: “how did you know i use 7.62x54R?”
also me 😎

[celest osprey]

both .338 guns weigh a ton too

[astral osprey]

3-7 rifles are superior i stan the solokhim rifle

[eternal berry]

Grinding was the most rewarding. Previous options for grinders were practically unlimited. Limits needed to be set because grinding was much more time-efficient than normal hunting, and it compromised the seriousness of the game due to unlimited grinding. Now people can still grind but with limits which is ok. ☝️

[shadow slate]

I'm kinda hoping the 450 will be a 3-7 or 4-8 as my new primary.

[thin cove]

The issue is there is to many limits, we are NOT at a happy medium

[pine yoke]

Here we go again 😝

[astral osprey]

lmao imagine shooting a 95 pound level 3 springbok with a round that’s nearly as powerful as a mounted 50bmg

[thin cove]

and as many people have said already, you cannot change the thing that makes your game feel the way it does in a "hotfix" with no warning. Mind boggling. Lets keep it at healthy discussion this time though

[eternal berry]

Do we know exact numbers yet? Genuine question. Spook radius in meters and later respawn in minutes?

[lucid pollen]

Why is it a problem for people to vent there frustration of the update in here?

[astral osprey]

someone made a new thread about spook radius and possible solutions it was very interesting and seemed very innovative

[pine yoke]

Because peoples feelings get hurt and they go to far

[thin cove]

250 meters is the spook radius, no hard number but people are saying between 30-60 uninterrupted minutes on the same reserve

[lucid pollen]

Well the internet is a quick and easy way to break your feelings

[pine yoke]

You’re not wrong

[thin cove]

with wait times like that you would think its a supercell game

[astral osprey]

i like to look at both sides of the table whilst the grinding was fun and it gave people who dedicated time rewards g1s were just too easy to get, i feel as if something you dedicate time and effort into gives a more satisfying feeling than jumping on layton and spawning a great one in 5 hours because you were able to kill hundreds of deer in that time

[eternal berry]

I believe the spook radius is less then original 250m
It is in official patch notes.

[astral osprey]

and too add on to this opinion i’ve had friends get g1s in 600 kills and some in 3000 kills

[deft kiln]

If devs want to eliminate grinding, they should probably up the chances of certain things spawning. Would make everyone happy

[shadow slate]

300legend is more powerful in comparison to the 450. But the 450 is a straight cartridge round as a 200yd heavy hitter its a great mid range caliber for big game. And plz dont mention BMG...its an anti-material round designed to pierce armor and stop vehicles and occasionally dismemberment.

[thin cove]

And thats something I can agree with but blindsiding the community wtih something this big, and being vague about it at that is not healthy. and also to whoever posted the patch notes thanks for that info, wish ew would be more detailed with patch notes tho

[astral osprey]

my solution would to be giving you a chance at a great one but once you hit a certain amount of kills a random great one of the species being hunted will spawn. this gives hope to the casuals and makes grinders feel more confident in thier journey to multiple great ones. and doing all this without hurting anything.

[astral osprey]

also i’m aware lol i just think it would be fun to shoot a deer at 1 plus miles away without losing all the velocity of your round , just make it a 9 exclusive a 50 bmg would come out the other side of a buffalo with 95% of its velocity gone anyway those animals are a lot more stout then you think

[shadow slate]

You can still kill T:9 Game with the 338 or 300win at 1/4mi (440yds) in-game. Its a hilarious fantasy w/ a Barret however I know what the bmg does first hand personally and its a bit much.

[astral osprey]

it was just a suggestion but i live near yellowstone and i’ve seen a 2300 lbs bison and i guarantee a 50 is a ethical round for a animal that large

[shadow slate]

Nvr disagreed with a 50cal just not a bmg

if anything a .72cal PcP is a great choice

[astral osprey]

yeah they make rounds of the same diameter with the same powder charge for hunting animals i believe i’ve just been referencing the wrong round my apologies

[shadow slate]

your fine its an honest mistake 👌

[shadow slate]

but a .50cal pistol like a 50AE, 500 S&W, or even the .50 Beowulf would all be great 50cal choices. Since we already have 2 Blackpowders from: Ball, Slug, & Sabot

[lucid pollen]

The problem arises on the different reasons why players grind and even from a casual. The reason people grind or HM is to increase or play the odds in their favor in better potential but also to manage their real time so they are more fulfilled or have more progress in getting that trophy they are grinding or hunting for. Regardless of which play style you do it’s a quality of life update that affects both play styles. In my experience of gaming, and understanding game development. You never remove something that’s already working.

[astral osprey]

i would love a sw500 mag

[shadow slate]

I've seen dramatic changes before to recreate balance and program fixes bc it overloads. It is a shame ppl got used to the bug to play but its as simple as re-adapting to it. I'm a casual sim player 90% of the time and I do minor grinds here n there. But if its as easy as culling spawns to get GO's is it really all that fun if its that easy to get them? I'm fine with the challenge and I'll adapt but honestly, I haven't noticed any changes to the game I'd consider end of the world.

[astral osprey]

based

[hybrid pike]

This is not a casual vs grinding debate ...
Im as casual as they come and we realize grinding is here to stay .... that was made clear by EW over a year ago ....
This recent issue is about game balance .... We cant just say that since its a single player game that we should be allowed to do anything we want to do ....
There are always rules that must be coded in ..... the balance is in determining what those rules should be ......

[hybrid pike]

Also I will add that since EW has the responsibility to support the game, then we need to rely on them to determine what rules and limits to put in place .... Its their game ... Its their livelihood .... They know the code and what could potentially be a problem down the road ....

[pulsar yew]

For a start, the player council is made up of PC players only. Several of whom, if not most, are probably grinders and Youtubers. I don't believe it is a balanced group of opinions, unfortunately. The concept seemed like a great idea when they first announced it. They got in touch but the conversation ended abruptly after asking me if I was on PC. Sadly, console players cannot test the game. It would have been good to have a representation of console players, regardless of whether we could test the game or not, as we have unique issues based on the console builds of the game. Saying that though, I'm not sure how much influence the player council would have had on a decision as big as the one about changing respawn times.

[hybrid pike]

I play on PC but I agree wholeheartedly .... If they are going to have a player council then it needs to represent all the players ... This issue deserves to be in a feedback thread all it's own .... 👍

[pulsar yew]

Agreed. I should probably set one up.... LOL

[haughty edge]

I think, when I was reading about play testing a while back, one of the issues with Console Testing - is that, unlike PC which can push out game editions... builds? as needed, consoles cannot. They would need to license every rendition of it - so say a content has 8 renditions... thats paying 8x to license a product that isn't even live. (If I understood it correctly)

Throw in that they would then need to manually upload the rendition of the game to the testers consoles, so ... either bring the console to HQ or deliver it via postage.. and then get it shipped back? Comes down to being quite costly, esp since mail goes by weight - how much does the avg xbox weigh? 5kg +/-? That's pricey.

It would be great if they had all platforms represented - but it makes sense to me as to why not

[manic raven]

Walking sim in a hunting game? Could never be…

[pulsar yew]

I understand and appreciate the issues around console testing. Fair enough. I just didn't realise when they announced it that it was going to be mainly for testing. I had a different interpretation of 'player council'. I still think the group could benefit from a broader representation, regardless of whether all the members can test the game or not.

[cursive crown]

Make it bigger and more representative of the playerbase

[west beacon]

So I see this thread uh didn’t really unite folks…

[hybrid pike]

EW is the only one who can unite us on this by admitting that this their fault for letting bugs hang around without any recognition that they are bugs ....

The fast travel render issue was never acknowledged as a bug .... It should have been on the known issues list and players considered it was just part of the game

Same situation with the main menu instant respawn issue .... If it is a bug it should have (at a minimum) acknowledged as a bug ... this would have avoided a lot of the hard feelings over this .....

[fringe wedge]

in my entire 216 hours of playing COTW, I never camped while hunting, i just wandered and shot, this patch is pretty good in my opinion since you can't just appear out of nowhere and shoot your animal, isn't it 😏

[cursive crown]

It’s naive to think that any of these posts will achieve that

It’s up to EW

[west beacon]

Having issues with the communication is something I totally agree with. I guess where my frustration lies is if you happen to agree with the changes made it’s assumed you are against the grinding playstyle. There is a lot of assuming going on. We as non grinders need to acknowledge the dedication and hard work that goes into grinds and recognize that this update impacts this. But grinders need to recognize that we aren’t their enemy if we support this change. EW communicating better would solve a lot issues I agree. But until they communicate better we as the community can communicate with each other with respect. Disagree but respectfully. Argue but not slander….its a pipe dream maybe but I think it’s possible.

[cursive crown]

So force your playstyle on everyone else? One of the most stupid comments I’ve seen here yet

Wow

Let people play how they want to play, what they do in their games affects no one but themselves

[fringe wedge]

well, go ahead and jump to rdr2 or just cause to run shoot any animal you like 😏. Can't call a game "realistic" and make it base game for kid isn't it :)))))

[cursive crown]

I get the impression your a younger member of the communtiy. I’ll ignore this comment

[west beacon]

Man we really don’t need to just tell grinders to find another game. It’s better if they can play the game how they enjoy. So offer constructive ideas as to how to balance your playstyle with their playstyle.

[pulsar yew]

To be fair, this game is deliberately designed to be arcade style. Realism is only suggested.

I wasn't aware that @cursive crown ellington was a grinder? 🤔

[lucid pollen]

Your talking about the game balance where instead of putting a cooldown on fast traveling to tents they give us this.

[cursive crown]

I’m not a grinder, but I’m all for personal choice

[pulsar yew]

Absolutely.

[fringe wedge]

Well, I was just sharing my thoughts on this patch, wasn't I? Until I saw someone with a 'booster' role jump in and tell me my comment is one of the most stupid they've seen here. Wow, such insight! Apparently, sharing my opinion means I'm forcing my playstyle on everyone else. Who knew? :)))))))

[pulsar yew]

That wouldn't work. It would become frustrating real fast if you accidentally travel to the wrong tent or just change your mind bcause of wind direction etc. I'd land up logging out.

[west beacon]

You can share your opinion all you want. But the moment you tell someone to just play something else if they don’t like it you in essence are forcing your opinion. It’s just not the purpose of this thread. This thread is calling us to stop dividing and telling people to play something else is just divisive.

[hybrid pike]

A question for the grinding community .... Do you enjoy grinding because you like to shoot large numbers of animals ?

Or do you grind because you want dimes and G1's ?

I'm not trying to provoke anyone just genuinely think there might be a difference between those 2 types of grinding motivations ....

[pulsar yew]

So, you're okay with grinding now?

[fringe wedge]

Oh, I see. So sharing my opinion is fine until it disagrees with someone else's? Got it. But just to clarify, I suggested they try another game because they called my comment stupid. I didn't realize trying to diffuse the negativity by offering an alternative was considered 'divisive.' Thanks for the enlightenment! :)))))))

[west beacon]

Zen I always have been.

[lucid pollen]

People grind to save their own times let’s be real they are trying to achieve a diamond or GO as quickly as possible. The game is already a walking simulator in terms of finding all the outposts. And if your alternative is a different game that’s a perfect reason on your game balance being flawed.

[west beacon]

Maybe I just misunderstood your tone. Kinda hard to get it right over text and tbh most of the time those kinds of comments are sarcastic. I apologize for misunderstanding.

[manic river]

Im more dissapointed they reverted the tents to how they were before. Placing tents can sometimes be a pain. They should at least decrease the spook radias to 50 or 100

[west beacon]

May I suggest https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1263534312654110760 as a place for you to discuss rent placement ideas?

[hybrid pike]

They admit tent placement is an issue and that they are looking into tweaking that

[pulsar yew]

You could avoid the confrontation if you tried not policing people.

[west beacon]

😂 you right

[fringe wedge]

No worries, tone can definitely be tricky over text. I was being a bit sarcastic, but it's all good. Apology accepted! Let's just enjoy the game and keep the discussions fun.

[west beacon]

We can sure try

[solemn delta]

I grind because it keeps my brain occupied. Shooting stimulates my brain more then walking at times. That's why I personally do both.

I don't consider myself in the grinding community or casual community. I enjoy both. I think this question is even divisive. It's almost feels like you are saying you have to one or the other.

[haughty edge]

Lord this was a read

[solemn delta]

It was worth a shot lol. Some people just can't be helped

[west beacon]

It is worth a shot and I believe it’s possible.

[haughty edge]

I don't know that I agree with "Liking the current patch" is equivocated to "disliking grinders/being against them"

Frankly I don't ultimately care how people play - I like the induced realism of not being able to quit game, reboot game and instantly get to shoot things all over again.
I also recognize that it has impacted people and their preferred play style.

Two truths can coexist - and not mean that I am over here doing my best impression at the misfortune of the ones impacted.

[west beacon]

This! Has this not been what I’ve been saying here and everywhere the whole time. PREACH!!!

[haughty edge]

To me having to play through such a thing, is a grind.
But, again, I am coming from WoW where grinding for things like the Shards of Val'anyr meant we were doing the same slog of a run - weekly - until all the shards were collected.
I hated it.
Still did it.

I can understand that in CotW its more of a pump-numbers grind, but I guess my view on what a grind is - is different as a baseline.

[hybrid pike]

certainly not trying to be divisive .... I acknowledge there are no absolutes and that some my fall in the middle somewhere .... that seems to be where you sit 😃

I guess my purpose in asking the question is to determine if it's all about the trophies (dimes and G1's ) or is there some other motivation ???

[west beacon]

I’ve heard some grinders simply say they love the routine and the complexities.

[fringe wedge]

maybe... training aim?

[hybrid pike]

agreed I have heard the same .... that seems to indicate that its not just about the trophies .... Its just the routine and the structure that surrounds the grinding playstyle

[west beacon]

Which is totally fair. It’s not my thing but to each their own.

[hybrid pike]

I guess as a causal player I'm just trying to understand grinding a little better ....

[west beacon]

That’s awesome. I think both sides need to strive to understand each other better so we can brainstorm solutions to these kind of issue

[pulsar yew]

Very fair point. We all play in ways that suit our personal situations. My own circumstances affect how I play, for sure. I wouldn't want to take that away from anyone. I appreciate the tough decisions that EW has to make and often that means they have to run with an idea and see how it plays out. The bear reset, for example. Hopefully they're collecting all these responses, visceral or not, and will consider them all. People want such contrasting things but I think it is possible to find a compromise that could work for most. Just don't nerf tiger drink zones. LOL

[cursive crown]

Let people play how they want,

Their play style affects no one but themselves

[eternal berry]

Both hunting methods—grinding and casual hunting—need to be balanced. It’s not acceptable for EW to support grinding in an extreme way, such as allowing fast travel without scaring animals.
There would be an extreme difference in efficiency between the two methods, which would devalue casual hunting.
Even casual hunters would eventually question the way they play because grinding would be far more efficient.

[west beacon]

I really don’t see anyone actively disagreeing with this…I know you think I have been but can you explain how that is? I genuinely want people to play how they want. So focusing on solutions that cater to this is the goal.

[cursive crown]

Why is it not acceptable? It’s all very well saying things like that but is it really?

[cursive crown]

Because this update adds restrictions to play styles, when it should be the player who picks who they go about their grinding

[west beacon]

Ok so your position is the update itself is restricting this? If that’s true is there a halfway point between where the game was and now is that you’d be ok with?

[hybrid pike]

but is it realistic to say that I should be able to play any game any way that I want? There must always be rules and limits or some balance to be maintained

[cursive crown]

The half point with the update to me would be to revert the respawn mechanics to how they were, the tent changes people. An live with

[west beacon]

Ok I could get behind that. Would you be alright if the respawn change still applied to tigers only?

[cursive crown]

Absolutely and there still is with the incredibly low chances of getting rares.
Particularly as so few people have the time to hash out hours of grinding, now they are in an even more difficult position than before.

This is a massive overreach from EW, it’s affectingly compromised what was essentially a non-problem and created a massive uproar that could have been entirely avoided

[hybrid pike]

agreed so who then is in a better position to determine what those rules and limits should be ?

[cursive crown]

That’s a grey area.

The devs implement based on their ideas, but also take huge amounts of feedback from the community. It’s a combined approach.

And the reason that this has been so controversial is because they took that action without asking the community

Whereas before w e have lots of polls and surveys

[eternal berry]

I'll be honest with you. If I were a grinder and knew there was a bug with the 0m spook radius, I would also demand that EW fix it. Because my trophies would have no value to me. I would refuse to grind until the bug was fixed.
I consider it cheating what You demand. 😕

[cursive crown]

Again no one’s forcing you to do anything.

This so why all these Anti grinding points are null.
What someone does in their game affects no one but themselves, anyone can go online and download mods for this game, but yet most don’t because they have self control.

[hybrid pike]

Well certainly I agree that a lack of communication and a lack of acknowledging what EW considers to be bugs/exploits in advance of all of this would have avoid much of these issues ....

[cursive crown]

Exactly a conversation/ poll/ survey what ever before this was implemented would have avoided all the kak that’s happened in the last 2 days

But the devs need to make it a bit more clear to people that this is not a realistic hunting game.

The models and landscapes, Awsome super detailed and life like.

However the mechanics of the same feed and drink zones, makes this an arcade like experience at best. Woth has the lead in realism of the current options, it just has mobile graphics

[hybrid pike]

I think just an addition to the know issues list that said to the effect .... " WE believe these things are bugs and are investigating further " ... This would have gone a long way to putting everyone on notice that these things were subject to be changed

[west beacon]

Honestly. I think the whole thing is exacerbated because they told us tent changes were coming but then didn’t mention respawn changes. Now jaxy may not have known. But I think that is what has caused the escalation.

[fringe wedge]

Well, if I were a grinder and knew there was a bug messing with the spook radius, I’d absolutely want it fixed. After all, why would anyone want to waste time on a system where trophies are compromised? Demanding a fix is hardly cheating; it’s just common sense. But hey, if some people are fine with accepting broken systems as they are, more power to them. I’d rather have a game where the challenges actually mean something

[cursive crown]

But your not a grinder an so that means literally nothing, it’s a worthless hypothetical statement, to desperately give your already poor argument a tiny bit of credibility

And given that most grinders are very upset with this change you would be in a serious minority

[fringe wedge]

Ah, so if I’m not a grinder, my perspective is irrelevant—got it. And being in a minority of those who appreciate the change just means I have a unique viewpoint. It’s almost like having a variety of opinions is what makes discussions interesting. Who knew? And if most grinders are upset, maybe it’s worth considering that different playstyles lead to different perspectives on what’s valuable or fair

[cursive crown]

I’ll not debating with you if your taking things out of context. And making up theoretical viewpoints to the muddy the waters about what we are all discussing.
Go have a ice cream and calm down.

[west beacon]

I don’t think that’s what Wellington is getting at. His point is you don’t grind so don’t pretend to understand the grinders perspective. Which you shouldn’t try to.

[hybrid pike]

Im not trying to throw Jaxy under the bus either .... There needs to be better communication between him and the dev team .... I seem to remember during early access there was a video from scarecrow where he questioned the fast travel 0 spook radius issue ... He claimed to have asked Jaxy about it and Jaxy said it was working as intended ....

[fringe wedge]

but I am replying to this text before lmao

[west beacon]

Yeah I’d say the same thing to Tom. Saying “if I was a grinder I’d still be ok with the update” is a false premise because you’re not a grinder and therefore how can you know how you’d feel about this.

[cursive crown]

Ditto

[west beacon]

That’s why we need grinders to share their perspective and non grinders to do the same and attempt to come together. It’s possible and I dare say it would be more effective than what has currently happened. Filling the feedback channel with the same complaints likely will just inform the devs of people’s displeasure. However if we offer viable solutions they can work with those.

[fringe wedge]

True, I can’t know exactly how I'd feel as a grinder. But I get why fairness matters and why fixing issues is important. Even if I’m not directly affected, I can still appreciate different viewpoints

[cursive crown]

That’s better

[eternal berry]

I wrote exactly the same. I would refuse to grind during the bug if I were grinder.
Sorry my English is maybe not so good.
Of course I want challenge instead of free trophies.

[west beacon]

Ok Tom but saying “if I were a grinder” just is a false premise because you’re not a grinder. Don’t pretend like you wouldn’t share their frustration. Can’t you see how that kinda trivializes their perspective? Whether you are happy or not with this update we must work together to offer solutions that everyone can get behind.

[eternal berry]

From what I’ve read, grinders are very upset that G1 trophies will become even more inaccessible, especially the Tahr. Perhaps if the spawn probability were slightly increased, it would be more achievable for grinders. ❔

[west beacon]

Yeah I’m not sure how to handle that. Idk if the devs really want g1s more achievable.

[hybrid pike]

This brings to mind the purpose of my question a little while ago ... Why is grinding more enjoyable to some than to others .... And what motivates a grinder to grind ... It is the trophies or is it just the structure and actions involved in the grind ...

From Tom's perspective if he were to grind it would be all about the trophies and he wouldnt want a trophy that wasnt a challenge ...

On the other hand if the trophies don't really matter and its just about the general grinding playstyle then we can see where those grinders are coming from .....

and of course we should acknowledge that both motivations might be in play .... But if even part of the motivation is to have the trophy then wouldn't you want them to be a challenge ???

[eternal berry]

With the new changes, it will take longer to get a G1 Tahr.
Therefore, fewer people will succeed before they start getting bored and quit. So, adjusting the spawn probability to 1.5 to 2 times higher might be reasonable. Or even less.

[cursive crown]

That’s just a meaningless statement, your not a grinder and so that comment holds 0 credibility or weight.

It’s just text

[hybrid pike]

@eternal berry | With the new changes, it will take longer to get a G1 Tahr.

so is that the problem for some? Is it specifically the Tahr G1 and not G1's in general .... I can agree it does seem like all this came up with the nepal update when Tahr G1 was introduced ....

[eternal berry]

When I look at grinding, I see it as an effort for high trophies and enjoyment from the probability of best spawns, similar to gambling.
From what I read, grinders don’t want a challenge. No one from grinders has praised this patch.

[eternal berry]

It’s only problem for grinders who want the G1 tahr.
Maybe this G1 should be special. Almost impossible to obtain. It would give even more joy to players after this one would spawn. 🙂

[hybrid pike]

@eternal berry Similar to gambling ... interesting ... that's an interesting motivation ...

[cursive crown]

Because it’s already challenging
The probability of GOs and rares is minimal it’s a major time sink, not to mention the time it takes to set up tents and find your zones

[hybrid pike]

I think you are right that Tahr G1 is even more of a sore point with the grinders .... In light of the problems this has cause it may be that EW might want to consider give the G1 Tahr a drink zone ....

I understand that Tahr drink zones was not their original design but at this point they are just doing damage control ....

[eternal berry]

But if there were only a few drink zones, grinding would become even more grindy. Similar to how it is with tigers, grinders would be dissatisfied because they would have to wait for spawns.

[hybrid pike]

More grindy than there is without drink zones??? Not sure I follow ???

[solemn delta]

I have supported this patch in several comments. I do grind as well. It makes sense why it had to happen. I'm still testing the respawn change so I can't comment on thst portion yet

[hybrid pike]

sorry I must drop out for now ... duty calls ....

[west beacon]

He said doody 😂

[eternal berry]

My boy. Nice to see grinder like you

[urban pelican]

I grind because a slower play style causes me to quickly lose interest in a game. It's why I tried woth and stopped playing after a few hours. I can play classic alone if I'm in a golden treestand, but if I'm running around I'm usually in vc with friends so I'm more focused on conversation than the hunt itself. Grinding allows me to turn off my brain for a bit and just enjoy some monotony for a while.

Sometimes I do run and gun when I'm bored of grinding. I think we can all agree that there's no "right" way to play the game. The only wrong way is to force someone to play how they don't want to play.

To edit: the trophies that come from grinding are always a bonus. I'll never discount that fact. Whether I've got 1 GO, 10 GO (which is my current number), or 100 GO doesn't mean that I'm not just as happy to see someone else get one as when I get one. I genuinely want everyone to have fun playing the game how they enjoy it and I hope they find the trophies they're looking for.

[shadow slate]

I get what your saying and I do agree as the exploit n bugs led ppl to start trades on console. Deny it if you wish but its not a pretty sight trying to find players who just want to hunt and play the game and this patch did effect grinders bc they were used to using the bug to grind. Again it wasn't addressed as a huge issue so it was seen as normal. I was suspended for 2 days after a player reported me calling it an exploit. Jaxy even mentioned this in his last stream. However I still stand by EW's decision to fix this and ppl either need to adjust their strategy to grind or dont its that simple. As mentioned before multiplayer is still having connection issues on xbox and is mostly a solo player game. No matter your playstyle it's your game. But ppl forget a game isn't a game without challenges and some form of difficulty. If you can get to endgame and get god tier in a week or 2 its way to easy. In this genre its a hunting game no pvp so just hunt.

[jolly seal]

I think one way to resolve this issue is to give people the option to have regular, periodic population resets and allow GOs to be initial spawns. Maybe put a toggle on the main menu that allows people to "opt in" to resets. Bring it back to be more like Classic.

Make GOs roam the whole map and give us trail cams to find it.

[shadow slate]

I was always under the impression they were spawned in and you had to find them not grind culling herds to spawn them in like a boss on an mmorpg.....If EW wants to fix it they need to do what they did on TheAngler. Maintained Official servers with a legendary each week. In this case the GO is spawned in a random location and your only allowed to harvest it once till the next weekly rotation provided you can follow the hints or cues to locate it. This is fair in terms of GO hunts and ppl can continue to hunt game as the please. While allowing an equal opportunity to get them.

[clever vessel]

I agree with doing pop resets as an option if people want to have the pop reset or not. Also I like an initial spawn GO…to have a slim chance to appear like you were grinding for one. I think the biggest complaint from the hunting community is that they want a chance to get a GO and they don’t want to grind to get it…and let’s be honest that’s the only way you can get a GO right now. They don’t care about how many they just want an opportunity to get one. So there needs to be a way they can get one too. I think if they get an option to get one through a slim initial spawn chance (like how classic spawn chance is very slim for large non types) there would be less division in the community with grinders vs. non grinders

[jolly seal]

Agreed! I also think more atypical racks would help too!

[heavy flame]

Dawg I know this is an older comment but .450 bushmaster has like less than a quarter of the muzzle energy of .50BMG and is around 500-800FPS slower depending on load

[heavy flame]

Both .350 Legend and .450 Bushmaster are straightcase cartridges, and the former has about 900-1200ft-lbs less muzzle energy than the latter

[pine oxide]

@floral lily

[zenith fable]

So basically you are suggesting a particapation trophy. Would you like to get a sticker with that? We already have equal opportunity as far as getting GOs is concerned. The only thing that makes things harder or not is RNG. Whether a person chooses to grind or not is a personal choice. If some people have more time than others, that's life and yes life can be unfair.

[sand depot]

@pine yoke I believe you are part of the greater problem in this game from what I’ve seen is you create divide in the community.

[pine yoke]

Hah funny you say that considering Flinter and I made the community

[prisma shadow]

And if the devs change your game that's also life and it yes it can be unfair.

[sand depot]

Hahaha @pine yoke You made the community! Ok Mr arrogant

[heavy flame]

Dawg, Flinter and DD33 expressing interest in COTW is what brought so much of Classic's playerbase over; they're also arguably responsible for both games still having a following as large as they do to this day (although that credit can be destributed more evenly to other creators as well, like Scarecrow and the amount of pull he has for getting people interested in GOs or ProXCK and Lady with their influence over zone maps used by the entire community)

[pine yoke]

Hoo and Ron were also there but It was Me and Flinter that were the most consistent

[prisma shadow]

Can't speak for everyone but his videos were in fact the ones I watched before deciding to get the game.

[pine yoke]

@sand depot
We’re talking about the OGs that started. Not people that joined in because without us. There wouldn’t be a community.

[haughty edge]

Just chiming in - please remember to be respectful when you are posting.

Y'all can have differing opinions - but differ politely.
Things that are rude are subject to being removed etc.

[sand depot]

@heavy flame Good for them but at the present time all they seem to be doing is feeding the divide from what I’ve seen. The Fact of the matter is the game was designed by the creators the way it was and that means that the grinding method is what works to achieve G1’s most successfuly. It is not grinders fault that they made the game this way. The COTW community that I found 2300hrs ago has nothing to do with you and they all embrace all styles of hunting in game unlike yourself.

[sand depot]

I also originally watched his videos as well but got sick of him bagging out other play styles all the time

[shadow slate]

I'm aware I've also seen the 2 tested side by side and the legend is capable of piercing 1/4in steel where the 450 doesn't.

[heavy flame]

penetrating steel is less a measure of energy and more a measure of energy transfer and bullet composition; a 77gr steel core .223 bullet will go through 1/8th inch steel plate at 50 yards but a 180gr copper jacketed lead .308 soft point with nearly 3 times as much energy would probably fail to leave a dent at the same distance; nonetheless, point taken

[pine oxide]

Cough cough ibuy and lady made it cough cough

[shadow slate]

No need to be rude I generally had the impression a single GO's spawns on a reserve wondering around till you find it. However based on what I have read it appears from so many harvests am I wrong? Also I merely suggested a fair way to get them and in no way did I say it would be easy. This doesn't effect grinders in the slightest if they want to cull herds for other trophy game if thats your thing or a means to level & get credits. If all your doing is farming to get a GO then I dont see a point to.

[pine oxide]

The whole point of grinding for a great one is to get the great one.

[fierce prairie]

Cough Cough who even is that guy your talking to?

[pine oxide]

Cough cough someone who is 100% grinding and thinks everyone should play their way cough cough

[red magnet]

oh really? 😉

[fierce prairie]

Ah Cough cough i just never saw this guy before today, looks like a content creator that's irrelevant!

[haughty edge]

Bruh. What part of don't be rude didnt connect?

[fierce prairie]

my bad

[wide trout]

dd33 acting like if it wsant for him we wouldnt ber here

[pine yoke]

Hey I remember when you joined in. We were talking about the beginning from the hunter classic. You were definitely an OG of COTW though

[haughty edge]

Goes for everyone -
And two wrongs don't make it right so like.. all of you behave

[red magnet]

Aaah my bad, i was about to say rude to leave me out of the OG cotw creators! 🤣 @pine yoke

[dusk yoke]

FACTS THO LMAO

[pine yoke]

Nice to see ya again man

[red magnet]

Same big man!

[glass dune]

Sowwy😓

[pine yoke]

🍻 Appreciate it

[pine oxide]

You good Lt wolf? You writing a novel?

[glass dune]

You need to pipe down, you ain’t all that lil bro

[shadow slate]

I'm not a content creator and I'm not here to have a debate on playstyles I simply asked if the GO grinds is why ppl grind and is it true this is how its designed to get them. I'm a sim player so I just hunt and was always under the impression theirs 1 wondering around. If its a grind spawn thats fine.

[prisma shadow]

Super cool that this particular thread is becoming one of the least civil here.

[cursive crown]

are you being for real?

[shadow slate]

yea I'm good just on console so it takes a minute

[pine yoke]

It’s true, you only get a great one from farming/ grinding after around 1,000+ animals of that species

[pine oxide]

You can get a great one running and gunning

[shadow slate]

thank you thats all I was curious about so now it makes sense.

[pine yoke]

Good luck with that 🙄

[cursive crown]

@pine yoke

[pine yoke]

Tell us your secrets?😆

[wide trout]

GOOGLE

[silver current]

i remember in the first year or two of COTWs release, the biggest youtubers were DD33 and Flinter. they gave the COTW community a foundation

[shadow slate]

Me and my wife play casual and occasionally grind for $ but we both weren't aware of Great One's till recently

[glass dune]

Ehhh

[pine yoke]

Thank you Naut. I’m glad someone has a good memory here

[cursive crown]

@fading steeple Worth keeping some of your "Partnered creators" in check.

[pine oxide]

You will be missed Wellington

[glass dune]

It honestly sounds like your mad that no one’s you, and your arguing that everyone should know you

[wide trout]

a foundation? what like 3 poeple watched?

[cursive crown]

I really doubt that, the game was popular from the start. Let's not feed egos and put virtual characters on pedestals

[pine yoke]

Are you blackmailing me Wellington? Not cool. Plus you don’t think I talk to jaxy 😝

[dusk yoke]

actually ppl capitalized off the beginning, the game made its own foundation

[haughty edge]

Guys.

[gleaming plover]

and girls

[red magnet]

shh, we're talking! 😉

[cursive crown]

That's not blackmail dude... We don't need content creators trying to claim abusrd things like that.

Statements like that are not a good look for you guys

[glass dune]

RIP

[haughty edge]

Sure yes, and girls

[haughty edge]

Don't make me trip you

[pine yoke]

You don’t believe that I’m an OG content creator? I’ve been here since the beginning. I only want what’s best for everyone

[cursive crown]

Dude you rnot responislbe for the creation of this community...... Thats wild you even think that

[pine oxide]

I will say dd has been here for the beginning but you can’t say you want what’s best for everyone while hating on grinders.

[dusk yoke]

this tho

[wide trout]

after he GRINDED for his wt

[pine yoke]

I don’t have anything against the grinders. I just want to have the same opportunity for casual hunters

[pine oxide]

The great one spawn rate is the same for everyone so you do have the same opportunity.

[cursive crown]

Heres a radical idea, let people play how thye want, how someone hunts in their game affects no one but themselves

[dusk yoke]

the issue is this uopdate dont effect run and gunners so yall dont have to deal with what us grinders deal with yall dont understand that at allllll

[fair marten]

@the aren't you the guy that like crawled around in bushes and whispered in your videos like the animals could actually hear you?

[glass dune]

Your not gunna have the same opportunity has grinders like what???

[wide trout]

then casual hunters can put in the same amount of effort

[mortal fossil]

People sure do get “passionate” about this update

Plus this thread is getting heated 🔥

[prisma shadow]

OP: Please stop dividing the community
Everyone in this thread: You know what? I'm gonna start dividing even harder.

[silver current]

i dont think DD ever shunned grinders or grinding in general

[cursive crown]

Ive not said that at all. im responding to his comment

[pine yoke]

You’re right Naut

[lucid pollen]

I uninstalled the game before the patch I think this was the correct move. I freed up so much space and you got actual games coming out with competent game devs who can actually game balance.

[mortal fossil]

I know right, all it takes is a few people

[cursive crown]

Also you do understand that this update has made it even harder for casual players?

[manic raven]

Game balancing shouldn’t be a thing.

[wide trout]

casual players cannot complain about grinders just because they dont want to do the work. you cant blame a CEO for putting in the years because youre a janitor

[pine yoke]

I haven’t noticed much difference in my play style tbh

[mortal fossil]

I’m tempted to go an find out for myself

[manic raven]

In a 90% single player hunting game*

[silver current]

has it? 20-30m respawn time and tents spook animals properly (as they always should have)
what about it makes hunting casually more challenging?

[pine oxide]

Non grinders do have the same opportunity to get the great one as a grinder, cause in the end a grinder can kill 500 whitetail and a non grinder can kill 500 whitetail only difference is grinders are doing it faster other then that you have the same opportunity.

[cursive crown]

People who work and have jobs, they have less time to play and now their grinds have been torpedoed.

[dusk yoke]

this update it effects grinders, the casual run and gunners arnt they wont notice anything wrong with it so imo the non grinders shouldnt have a say so in this update

[lucid pollen]

People don’t even want to play multiplayer cause it’s high probability of it being a hacked server 🤣

[pine yoke]

I can see what you mean about that

[manic raven]

Can’t relate, console player (multiplayer doesn’t work and when it does people are assholes).

[pearl dust]

holy ibuy

[dusk yoke]

ibuy stayyy typing a novel lol

[floral lily]

I personally tried to grind whitetail the last 2 days on stream. And i will say that having no male respawns at all is definitely not enjoyable. I waited easily 30 mins IRL live just to see if anything would respawn in my zones. And to my surprise, there were none. So not sure exactly what to say about it. But this cant be intended right? If it is, i think that it is not playable in its current state. Now, you may be able to run around and shoot a lot more animals around the map and potentially get respawns. But this isnt at all what it was like when i started playing. It essentially takes away what brought me to the game, and what i built my community on.

[silver current]

insight from both sides is important, though. because there's bias. a lot of it.

[floral lily]

I think that bias only comes from something that truly effects the way you play. If you are dependent on respawns within a timely manor to "grind", and that isn't happening it obviously effects your playstyle directly. Now, if i was to run and gun around and just shoot things randomly. Chances are that i wouldn't notice a lack of respawns essentially. And to think that for one second you cant get a great one by just cruising your map and hunting is absolutely false. You can definitely do that. But you have to be prepared to cruise around, and hunt thousands of that same species to attain a great one. That is because of the existence of RNG. There isn't a set number its not a mathematical equation to get a great one. It is persistence and luck at the end of the day.

[dusk yoke]

THIS THOUGH 👆

[pine oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

It got real quiet so fast

[dusk cape]

I can't help but think this entire respawn cool-down patch came after the Devs watched as their rare and precious Tigers got bounced over and over, producing a record level of Rares and SRs in the first week after release. Shocked and horrified, something had to be done to stop this madness. Now iBuy has no WT male respawns.

[silver current]

its damage control, and its never a good thing

[red magnet]

The big problem with this is it doesn't make the tiger SR and diamonds rare again. They have already been diluted down to not really meaning too much, all the hardcore grinders already have what they needed from it, they could have taken their time and given us a lengthy warning that things were about to change down the line as preparation for whatever is to come next, a fix like this had to happen immediatly, not a month after. This way it's really hurting the non grinders the most.. the grinders already got their piece of the pie when it comes to the tigers. This could have been announced as prep for an upcoming map and then implemented after it had gotten out and tested through thoroughly. There really was no need to rush this patch and not be completely transparent about it, and make the community feel so blindsided by it. (talking tigers and respawns) - Tent fix is fine.

[pearl dust]

the players essentially captured their queen so they threw a fit and flipped the chessboard

[floral lily]

Tents 100% needed fixed. Spawning on an animal and just shooting it point blank definitely was not intentional. I knew that as soon as i experienced it. The spook radius and all that even really didnt need adjusted tbh. But animals still are not rendered in on certain areas, and walking away from that area causes them to appear again. So there are issues that need fixed. I dont think a time gate should have been the fix either. I think that a deeper look at respawn mechanics should have been looked at. Clearly with a predator respawn my assumption was that they would respawn anywhere they can potentially drink. Yet this wasnt happening. Maybe a look at why not would have been better than adjusting respawn timers. I know it has been said that other animals were not effected by this, that it was the tigers. But the patch notes stated - Animals will no longer instantly respawn when a Player reenters a map. It will now take a normal amount of time for them to reappear on the map as originally intended. So what exactly is a normal amount of time? Because i personally think that not having respawns after 30 mins is a bit much.

[nova root]

I uninstalled cotw and won't touch it until it fixes the respawns 🖐️

[thin cove]

Just want to congratulate whoever made this feedback post on creating the greatest feedback discussion ever

[celest osprey]

imo the flee radius would've been fine if it wasn't so big, maybe 100-150m would be more acceptable. And respawns should 100% not take that long. 5 mins would make more sense

[floral lily]

5-10 mins isnt bad imo as well. I think that is easily reasonable. But the fast travel spook radius before Nepal was 200m I tested it a lot. Now, other people say that things were different for them. I assume they are correct. Because like many people will have to kill 4 animals hot on a zone to delete it. Well with me, if i kill 3 it deletes my zone. There are just overall i think some inconsistent things that i dont understand completely. And i am cool with that, i always built my grinds under certain parameters to make sure that they were as consistent as possible. So with the tent change, all of my grinds that were placed didnt even need to be moved. Respawns seem to be the main issue for me currently.

[pliant nimbus]

🍿

[celest osprey]

I have the same problem. I noticed that my blacktail zone got deleted despite only killing three. But yeah, tents are basically just being returned to pre-sundar except that animals are rendered in now. I prefer for them to just not render in rather than flee since it just makes it easier.

[floral lily]

Yeah see. That is where im ok with it. They should be rendered in, they should flee. I am ok with that. It makes it so we must be more mindful of our setups. Its ok for it to be harder. A challenge is nice. That is what i like about new GOs. Its a new challenge. The tahr having no drink zones was awesome. I was cool with that. It presented its own challenges. But as is, the animals are still not rendered in certain areas. So that isnt actually fixed currently, but other issues on top of that were introduced.

[unique sundial]

I'd just like the menu respawns back it was with us for 7 years so why take it away when it was never addressed as an issue that whole time

[floral lily]

In fact, they did actually turn the flee distance down from what it was pre Nepal. So that was a beneficial thing that came out. I mean that does help people. So again, i think we should all be vocal and constructive with what we say to maybe help implement some more adjustments, and maybe even some deeper dives on some of the standing issues.

[celest osprey]

I'm ok with it too, it makes sense. It's not ideal to me but I'm fine with it. It brings a challenge, as it should. There are still issues in the game that were present before this update and new ones brought with it.

I have a strong feeling that EW will notice the player's response to this update and will change it sooner or later, considering there's a big drop in number of players

[unique sundial]

Yea I've been seeing only 2k players on steam after about 1 or 2pm for me
Hoping this isn't something they just put off
Cause grinding brought me back to the game along with sundar the tent changes are fine it's just the respawn changes that hurt

[celest osprey]

Though if these changes were introduced earlier, near when the game first came out, I'm sure people would've been fine with it now and pay no mind to it

[unique sundial]

Definitely it's my only issue with the instant respawn change cause it was with us for 7 years without being adressed till now
I'm more sad than angry atp

[celest osprey]

I main menued rarely to force respawns but to bring spooked animals back to their zone and out of being nervous

[lucid pollen]

I love how they think grinding ruins trophy’s when they mentioned they taught nobody would cheat cause it’s a hunting game 😂

Let’s wait for everyone to exploit the glitch and get there rares before the patch 🤣

“Get em before you can” 💀

[celest osprey]

where did they say that? i mean they said that they are ok with HM so i doubt they think grinding is bad

[pine oxide]

They basically called it an exploit on stream yesterday

[celest osprey]

dayum

[lucid pollen]

What’s the point of making it more unattainable are you trying to kill your game or get it review bombed? Like seriously some question with management/leadership who allowed the patch to go live with no background check. No clear communication.

[unique sundial]

Jaxy also called leaving the map to force respawns a placebo basically saying it didn't work to begin with even though it did
Which could've just been jaxy getting fed wrong info

[celest osprey]

i mean i don't see how they didn't think there would be lots of backlash from this update

[unique sundial]

Yea.... makes me feel real bad for jaxy as we have no window to the devs except him but they can't even communicate to him properly so he ends up being the devs bullet shield for criticism and people that take things too far

[lucid pollen]

My favorite is when it’s just a video game but then we making things more unattainable even for the casual. Sounds like a fun video game filled with time wasting mechanics/tactics but alright apparently accelerating time is an exploit.

[unique sundial]

Yee I just wanna see the instant respawn return and an easier way for casual run and gunners or stalkers to get a G1

[dusk cape]

Jaxy tried to explain the long list of problems that continuous exiting to Main creates in the programming, but never finished his thought. Maybe more rationale for this change would have helped.

[unique sundial]

Whyd he call it a placebo then? As in main menu respawns didn't actually do anything to begin with

[dusk cape]

He said the respawns were already on the map by the time you got back in, and it wasn't necessary. That could use more explanation too.

[celest osprey]

i just main menued so animals weren't nervous and returned to their zones

[unique sundial]

Which wasn't the case as the patch said it returned animal respawns back to normal yet main menuing would let me pull the same tiger everytime in like 40 seconds it took to main menu and reload in

Not saying it's the case but I feel as if the devs themselves just didn't like people grinding as fast as we were or in general so they made that change and just told jaxy that in hopes it would calm the community as they have Given him false info before

[lucid pollen]

We patching tents but not buffing ATVs 🤣

[rocky bough]

ATVs really need to be the end-all panic button for animals

that you can cheese diamond buffalo just by revving it for a few seconds doesn't feel right.

[silver current]

i think thats because buffalo (aggressive game) have a really funky spook mechanic, as in theres a chance they charge instead.

[fierce prairie]

The main reason for the feel of a divide is the recent updates and feedback from those updates. From what most are seeing it's the none grinders saying there is nothing wrong with respawns. When that has nothing to do with their play style or something they dont see everytime. If your not rotating on animals in the style of play we do you won't see thing we see. Heck run and gun play style or even casual hunters will see an issue with black tail, Ibex, bighorn sheep and so on before I would see an issue. As we don't hunt those animals on a normal bases. I respect your play style to each their own it's just when someone comes in and says your wrong but knows nothing about what is going on that is what ticks people off. If we want to see a serious change to the divide in the game we all just got to take a second and look in the others shoes. I will start!

@pine yoke I said a rude comment about you yesterday. I would like to apologize for that, got a little heated when I saw a comment that just overlooked the other creators that have put alot of work and time into the game. They may not be day one creators but they work just as hard in their own communities.

Lets take some time and put our selves in others shoes and silence the trolls. Some people just want to fight with other to fight with others. Sorry for the grammar and spelling errors I am a smooth 🧠 lol! Sorry for the @

[hybrid pike]

do we have a definative answer as to how much time it takes for a respawn to occur (non tiger )

[fierce prairie]

Not a set answer I shoot 1 Moose 5 times. First spawn was 7mins 55sec, second 6mins 5sec, third 26mins 13sec, forth 5mins 33sec, and 5th 22mins 16sec. White tail is even worse waited 33mins for a reapawn before giving up on testing.

[hybrid pike]

So here's my issue ... if the re spawn timer is as random as some have been reporting then i would say that even many casual hunters would be upset with this change .... I would definitely like to hear from the CM @fading steeple on this ....

Is this working as intended ???

@fading steeple seemed to say in the last stream that by the time your rotation is complete the
re-spawns should have happened ...... But if they are random ???? And from, some of the numbers I've seen reported this just doesn't seem to be the case ....

[clever vessel]

I think a lot of casual hunters don’t hunt their respawns hence why it doesn’t bother them as much. Especially the hard core hunters in the community. They’re trying to find that special trophy (diamond/rare/super rare etc) they find, set up or stalk, kill then move on. I believe that’s why a lot from that community are upset with how GO are set up as most of the hunters don’t shoot respawns for the most part they’re just looking for that one special trophy. So if they are not shooting respawns unlikely to get a GO.

[hybrid pike]

Well Im a casual hunter but even the casuals have to hunt zones ... that's the way the game is built ... So yeah I may have a small rotation ... I'll shoot 1 or 2 of the high value males and then move on to let the pressure die down .... Then I may come back ... in 20 or 30 minutes to see whats re-spawned .... I'm just not seeing any spawning issues .... Maybe I'm just too casual .....

[clever vessel]

I think it would be more noticeable if people are HM with their grinds vs what you’re doing. If you’re HM (not at the start but I’m saying once all herds are HM) the wait is going to slow them down. It seems and I could be wrong so no one get mad…maybe EW wants people to go back to OG grinding and not HM as I think their are affected more by the respawn issues than those who grind just regular. Could be wrong but that’s what I perceive

[blazing quiver]

I do have issues, because herds won't return to their zones after I shot one male deer.
On my six main zones from 10:00 to 13:00 not one herd of Fallow deer returned.
When there is no causality between changing to drink times and herds returning to their respective drink zones the game is not working.
(The human mind of a newbe couldn't make sense of the causality, f. e.)

[fierce prairie]

Question are you seeing any animals come into the zone?

[blazing quiver]

Only red deer before and hog deer after fallow drink time.
No fallow herd on 9 drink zones in total.

[clever vessel]

I checked my Fallow grind since the update and I’ve been getting my repawns within 15 min or so…some areas are a little slower than others but it was like that before so I haven’t seen a significant difference. It seems like WT are having the worse with this update. My white tail were super slow showing up before and after this update so I can’t say this update was the problem but I’ll have to test it more

[fierce prairie]

You may need to exite and come back in, not to try and push a respawn but to reset that animals fear level. When you spook an animal it will not come back to its zone unless that fear level is reset. The animal instead will move to the closest zone and drink or eat there.

[blazing quiver]

Fallow deer take forever to arrive, but turn like clockwork to leave at 13:00

[eternal berry]

How do you know exact Numbers?

[fierce prairie]

I set up Tuesday after work on my first Moose zone on my grind. Shoot that one Moose the second I picked up the animal I hit the start of a stop watch.

[blazing quiver]

I believe you. But pre-update I hadn't have this issue

[fierce prairie]

Yeah I get that did not see it much before the update either so could be a result of the changes to the animals.

My reasoning behind that method of keeping track of resapwns is due to the fact an animal will or would not respawn with out picking up an animal. I would start the stop watch, exite to main menu come back in move the time back and see all the other animals in the zone. The exite was a means of reseting that fear level I talked about a min ago. Pull my cam out and watch those Moose tell the male would show back up.

[eternal berry]

If they introduced a random spawn timer, it would add unpredictability and a bit of surprise to the game. I think it would be a welcome change in a hunting game.
Because need zones are fixed, very predictable.

[fierce prairie]

I 100% get that but when where talking about grinding an animal the respawn is that surprise. A rotation on an HM grind is about 10mins max, the chase of a great one, super rare, or even the biggest dime possible is the excitement where chasing. Not the build up that build up is what is not motivating people to grind certain animals

[hybrid pike]

I agree ... as I favor a more realistic hunt .... But I can see where the grinders have an issue .... They are told that grinding is a viable play style and now if its been changed to a random spawn then I can see how that would make grinding much more time consuming .....

[fierce prairie]

I suppose I said that wrong kinda contradiction. The time of the respawn is not the build up where looking for. It's the animal it's self, where chasing

[unique sundial]

That's another issue besides us grinders wanting forced respawns back. Should respawn by the time you finish your rotation is a broad statement since some can finish rotations faster or slower than others

[jolly seal]

Thanks for leading by example, @fierce prairie We need more positivity in our community and its nice to see folks step up this way by apologizing when they get heated. I hope others look up to this and practice the same. 🤜🤛

[pine yoke]

Thank you for saying that MoJo. It takes a lot of courage and strong will to do that. I appreciate it a lot. We are all more powerful when we unite together

[unique sundial]

Hey dd33 I have suggestion I made and would like to hear your feedback on it since you seem to not be as much as of a grinder I just feel like creator with another viewpoints input would be nice #1266098158396768380 message
So if you'd like to look over it it'd be appreciated

[spark ingot]

DD and Flinter were around long before ibuy and LadyLegend. Nothing against them, but it’s true. DD and Flinter have been building up this community since before CotW even released.

[astral osprey]

just give everyone every animal atp

[spark ingot]

Real

[celest osprey]

lady is mid anyways tbh

[silver current]

and its not even about 'superiority' or the OG's. everybody has a place in this community, and their veteran status doesnt make them any more legitimate than the newer folks

[spark ingot]

Exactly.

[silver current]

but its always worth listening to the veterans, theyve seen this game and community progress and change over almost a decade now! we're coming up to that landmark quick

[dusk cape]

sounds harsh, and wrong

[haughty edge]

Please let's not debate CC quality or not - this is not the place for it

[lucid pollen]

30 mins I think

[lucid pollen]

Before it was released? Trust me you won’t see any Cabela videos on their channel if you think they are OGs than your perspective to hunting games starts right here

[spark ingot]

I’m talking about the theHunter game series. THAT community.

[spark ingot]

The original (Classic) and CotW

[lucid pollen]

I stopped watching them cause of how biased they were imo there views will never be against EW cause it jeopardizes there partnership

They do make the best COTW videos and were the first to upload classic content for sure

[urban pelican]

There's nothing wrong with being a casual hunter. We're never going to discredit your hunt or your experience in the game. You may not have respawn issues because of a number of factors. I currently haven't had any issues with fallow respawns and I make fairly fast rotations (approx 10-15 IRL minutes depending on how much I have to track animals down). Some people aren't getting respawns for a longer time frame. My question is why such a wide range of respawn timers?

If we knew the max respawn timer, we could adjust with little to no issues. EW wants to keep so much about the game a mystery and I understand that. Why would divulging this particular bit of information be so game-breaking though?

[fair lynx]

Your animals spawn normally as usual because you hunt others in another area, when the pressure points disappear then the animals respawn.
The times are the same as always, they have not changed.
There are some users who kill an animal and stand there checking the time on the scanner so that another one appears again, and sometimes it doesn't even appear because one is inside the spawn render and the spot hasn't disappeared yet, the most don't even know how the system works, they just got used to going to the main menu for the spawns to occur.
Everyone is measuring time without a logical standard, they only do it from their point of view.

[urban pelican]

Animals respawning with no hunting pressure is a fallacy. They'll respawn under any condition. Standing there and checking the amount of time it takes one animals to respawn and come to a zone is a logical way of determining the scope of the changes to the respawn system.

[fair lynx]

This is how it works for me, I simply hunt a lake as much as I can even eliminate areas of need, then go to an bird stand, hunt 10 or 15 birds (outside of the hunting structure) so that the spots of the lakes disappear and when I return to them all the animals have already reappeared and are using the drinking area again.
Each user has their own different way of "determine" how spawning animals and the time it takes to do so, that's why there are so many different measurements, the only truth here is that that time has not changed, it remains the same.
And I repeat, many grinders didn't even know it because they only went to the main menu to instantly reappear.

[urban pelican]

Most grinders went to the main menu to reset the states of the animals on the map, not force respawns.

[fair lynx]

And that is also another exploit xD

[urban pelican]

Funny how all of these exploits were just game mechanics not 2 months ago

[heavy flame]

Shifting goal posts, redefine things to justify removing them.

Seems to be what the devs are interested in doing.

[heavy flame]

The main menu resetting animal statuses has been in the game since launch; I used to use it to push reindeer back to feed or rest zones when I bowhunted MedVed religiously in like 2019 and I had been recommended that practice by players who had used it since early access at the start of 2017

[urban pelican]

Bingo. Exploits don't take years to remove. They're easily identified, they're publicly announced as exploits immediately, and they're removed as early as possible.

[fair lynx]

correct, it has always been used, everyone uses it, even so it is still an abuse of mechanics to facilitate hunting

[urban pelican]

Just because something makes an activity easier doesn't make it an exploit

[prisma shadow]

From a studio with competent QA/QC, perhaps. But all sorts of broken stuff has gone unfixed and even unacknowledged for years by EW.

[urban pelican]

You're not wrong there. The biggest issue with that is also making it seem like it was the players' fault they got accustomed to something that's now considered an "exploit" even though nothing was ever mentioned as such

[hybrid pike]

It is an exploit because the developer says its an exploit .... They are the only ones who can determine that .... just because they didn't fix it in a normal time frame doesn't change that ... If its not working as intended and people are still using it to circumvent the intended function of the system ... That is the definition of an exploit .... I continue to say however that EW is the cause of all of this because they are just now announcing this as an exploit ......

I will give EW the benefit of the doubt and say that it is possible that they didn't even realize that players were forcing re-spawns in this way .... No one reported this to them and non of their internal testers saw it either .... I can realistically see how this could have been overlooked .... On the original render bug i don't see how they could have missed that bug and I still think they need to be more transparent in identifying bugs and exploits .....

A simple statement as early as possible to the effect that ........ "We believe that this may not be working as intended " .... This could have put everyone on notice that it was subject to change at any time ......

[urban pelican]

Some degree of transparency would've been nice in the whole situation. To a lot of the player base, these "exploits" were just how things were. Had I known that animals should be rendering inside of 200m, I would've never set up grinds to use what I thought was just a game mechanic. I've been playing for about 3 years and never knew that was an issue. Main menu-ing to force respawns seems to be more targeted toward dirty grinders (I know they've countered dirty grinding for GOs, but SR are still possible). I've never main menu'd to force a respawn for a grind, only to reset the state of the animals on my map. Some people claim this is also an exploit, but it's something that EW has never mentioned. I know several of these recently announced exploits have been covered by content creators. I can understand maybe not watching every bit of content that's produced by every person, but it might be a good idea to watch some of the content that the official creators are putting out. It would be a good show of support while also seeing IRL applications of the game. Just this alone may alert the devs to some issues that can be announced to the player base and corrected.

[hybrid pike]

Again all good suggestions .... They should take noticce of any suggestion on how they can improve their failure to communicate ....

I can honestly see how they weren't even aware that players were doing this until recently ....

@urban pelican | only to reset the state of the animals on my map.

Never heard of resetting the state of the animals .... How does this work and why is it helpful???

[urban pelican]

When traveling around the map and shooting animals, any animals that aren't shot enter the fleeing state and travel to another part of the map. When they eventually stop fleeing, their state will return to nervous and they will make their way to another area of the map where they will remain nervous for an extended period of time (if you've ever come across a herd of animals that show to be nervous and drinking nowhere near water, that's what happens). Going to the main menu resets the state of all animals on the map back to calm and they will then return to their proper zones instead of the imitation zones

[hybrid pike]

So from your description is it possible that you could not see how this might not be working as intended ???

[urban pelican]

Also, the laughing emoji was genuine. I love Cool Hand Luke and got a chuckle from that.

[hybrid pike]

That the devs could have said when they were designing the game that we'll just let the players exit to the main menu instead of fixing this issue ????

[urban pelican]

I could definitely see that as a possibility, but how could I truly know that's the case? For all I know the animals state could be "broken" and they may never truly return to calm and the only fix is to main menu

[hybrid pike]

If you believe that they game is broken has anyone ever reported this as a possible bug .... I would contend that the devs are still unaware that this happening with the animals ..... So a bug report saying what you said here and specifying that you dont think this is working correctly

Unfortunately communication works both ways .....

[urban pelican]

I don't see it as broken. I believe as a gamer we should have a way to "soft reset" the map (for lack of better wording).

[hybrid pike]

The problem is a lot of players only report bugs when it affecting them directly .... but certainly if I'm encountering something that forces me exit from the game and then go back in .... Thats a red flag to me that somethings not working right .....

[urban pelican]

Then I could contend that zone times aren't working correctly since I'm forced to main menu and/or change time to see animals in their zones. I know Jaxy has said the times are merely suggestions and my response to that is to remove the defined times and instead give generalized times of day.

[hybrid pike]

I understand it wasnt a big issue for you to exit and go back in ..... I get that absolutely .... but as we see here many players were using that same tactic to force respawns ....

Your using it for a different purpose but the forced respawn was the target of the fix and unfortunately your issue just got in the way

I will ask you this .... does exiting to the main menu still cause animals to reset?

[urban pelican]

It does. No respawns occur from exiting to main menu or closing the game entirely. It seems to only occur after a varying amount of time spent on the map. Going to the main menu will still cause all animals to go calm upon re-entry.

It may be off topic, but one thing I've always wondered that makes no sense is why time passes when sitting at the menu screen? Also, why can you view animals from the menu screen?

[hybrid pike]

Okay well at least the reason why you use that tactic is still working for you .... Glad o hear that you weren't using for the other purpose ..... But I would still suggest you send in a bug report and let EW know what is happening ....

even if they dont take the time to fix animal resets at least they can post a know issue ..... Saying they know this is happening .... And maybe even give a better work around or a clarification ....

Maybe the animals will reset on their own after a certain period of time ... That's the way I thought it worked .... But I can see when grinding how this could be beneficial to force animals to go calm ....

[hybrid pike]

I have noticed a small passage of time when I reenter a map .... but never noticed that you could view animals from the menu ... that a new one on me ....

[urban pelican]

I wish I could remember where I saw the picture, but someone in a discord I'm in noticed an albino whitetail walking in view when they were in the main menu. Turned out to be a super rare

[hybrid pike]

Been nice talking to you .... I wish more players were as level headed on this issue as you are .....

[urban pelican]

I try to keep an open mind about things. I'd be lying if I said I'd never exploited mechanics in the game intentionally. I also never hid the fact that I thought they were exploits and that I believed they should be fixed. This was also before I really paid attention to the official discord and learned that the devs will listen to constructive feedback

Most people take issue with the fact that EW is slowing grinds down (whether intentional or not is a debate I don't like being a part of). I take issue with the ambiguity behind the changes. If I knew more about how the respawns should work (ie times and the like), then I could help to fix issues that arise when I'm playing. If respawns are supposed to be as quick as Jaxy implied, then I should be getting respawns after a 10-15 minute rotation. That seems to be the case with my fallow population, but several people are having issues with whitetail respawning in a timely manner

I've also made it known to Jaxy that I believe they have some coding logic wrong when it comes to rare furs and that's why rare Tigers don't feel rare. Throughout my play time I've been told that very rare furs are a 1/2000 spawn chance. Rare furs are supposedly somewhere in the 1/1500 range. If that were the case, then you should reasonable expect it to take between 1500 and 2000 kills on average to get a rare variant. With tigers, there are 7 rare furs (1/1500) and 2 very rare furs (1/2000). If the logic is correct, it should still be somewhere between 1500 and 2000 kills for a rare animal. If it's backwards like I believe it is, then you have a 7/1500 chance of a rare fur and a 2/2000 chance of a very rare fur. Simplifying all of this and you've got roughly a 1/175 rare of rare furs. Quite a large difference, but it seems to be the case in the IRL application. It seems to only take about 200 kills on average for rare tiger furs.

I do genuinely want the game to be better for anyone that plays it. That's why I've learned to be vocal with my feedback to ensure that at least someone sees it

[celest osprey]

This chat finally died down

[onyx grotto]

SIMPLE put the game back to the way it was and leave it and stop trying to stop grinding thats why the community there is a lot of people hanging up there hats for this game. Because of what EW has done i know i have and i bet a lot of people have. At the end of the day us grinders dont complain about how u run in gunners play so dont complain on how we play as it says when u open up the game open world so why dose it have to be about the run in gunners

[crimson shoal]

this is an example of dividing the community. Right here. On a post about not dividing the community. 😂

[kind yarrow]

yes, I agree, people need to stop denigrating the way other people play, like this
https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1266933327970041928

[drifting scroll]

If you feel denigrated by that I don't know what to tell you.

[kind yarrow]

never said I felt that way, sounds like some projection on your part.

I'm just pointing out examples of people dividing the community, whether they intend to or not.

[drifting scroll]

That's a lot more context then what you slapped down originally.

[lucid pollen]

Lmao you do realize they took out the simulation with this update?

Community based game claiming they want to clean up bugs than do the quite opposite of what people suggested. That’s a circus brotha

We have missions glitching, animals climbing on top of each other, and a plethora of other bugs. You trying to tell me the only bug they fixed was tigers? Lololol

They have no clue what they are doing game balance wise, you don’t simply nerf time being advanced in a hunting game. It goes back to the point of it’s a video game and we talking about time intervals. Yep time intervals that’s the type of game studio they are in LA.

[dusk cape]

I thought EW was in Sweden

[haughty edge]

They are -

[kind yarrow]

not really but whatever.

[manic raven]

That post was hilarious chill out😂

[crimson shoal]

I guarantee everyone in the community who has seen that post at least chuckled at it, i know i did 😂

[drifting scroll]

Exactly. I made that for everyone to get some amount of enjoyment out of it.

[haughty edge]

I snorted

Really Really Tall Tripods
10/10

[fierce prairie]

Tall tripods is a great idea, lol who says they can't put them in, 250 meter tall tents to no more spook worries lol.

[zenith fable]

Please explain how "everyone" is supposed to get enjoyment out of that when it's only aimed one playstyle.

[light pilot]

I personally was not bothered by that post, but a fact is that nowadays many people use the excuse of "joke" to avoid the consequences of ill intended remarks, this include memes. A good way to know if something is harmless fun or or done in not-so-good-faith is to ask why it's funny. Maybe it's funny because it's a pun, or a smart observation. But if it's funny because it degrades or humiliates or particularly makes fun of a certain type of person, it maaaaaaay not be so harmless.

I'm not accusing OP or the post of doing the latter, btw! Just making an observation on how dangerous the argument of "it's just a joke!" can be!

[drifting scroll]

Because the meme isn't targeting all grinders. You'd think a title like "How to Save the Game," and EW at the end saying "please please love of forever" would give you a pretty good idea of who the meme is really about. That's why many who grind still were able to laugh at it because they ultimately knew this had nothing to do with them.

[hybrid pike]

Comedy challenges us all to take a look at our own false self image and hypocrisies ....

We've seen plenty of that lately in those who cried and gnashed their teeth at EW because they were no longer able to teleport into the middle of a herd .....

Only to be heard a week later saying that the teleport spook bug fix was okay but the forced re spawn bug fix was the end of the world .....

[zenith fable]

Oh I actually did find some of it funny as I had joked about ultra tall tripods with iBUY when he first started on Tahr shortly after Sundarpatan was first released. Say what you like, everything about it is obviously aimed at grinding. But that's fine by me, it's actually good to see people having a laugh rather than the usual crying about how grinders devalue trophies or it's not real hunting etc.

[lusty basin]

I get your point but c'mon that's really funny