#Scrap animal classes, add more fluidity

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

bright herald
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I've come up with a system I think would work best, I think grouping animals and calibers into classes should be scrapped completely.

Instead of them, I think it would be best if each caliber had a list of species ethical for them, it would be long of course, so maybe you could filter animals in the list by map to shorten the list, or add a simple search bar to search a species you want to check for if it's on the list. And also vice-versa, searching an animal in the codex shows you a list of calibers ethical for that animal.

This would solve problems such as for example using a .30-06 in plains bison but not water buffalo, or using the .30-30 for black bear but not elk.
Having no set classes means animals are more fluid amongst the calibers.

Of course this change would be a lot of work with deciding calibers ethical for each of the 106 species and pairing them with specific calibers out of the 50-ish we have in the game already, but I think the work would be worth it in the long run in creating a better experience overall.

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nimble widget
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I think classes are easier

rare nexus
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This would be interesting actually

runic skiff
wispy oar
bright herald
# nimble widget I think classes are easier

there's easier and then there is more efficient, this would put an end to people complaining about certain calibers not being able to take certain animals because they dont cover that animal's class because the other animals from that same class aren't hunted with that caliber, this would make it harder/more complicated to keep track of with all the info and stuff, but people could get used to it eventually

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there will never be a perfect system for this, but I feel like we should go for efficiency over simplicity, allowing animals to be fluid like this would make it more enjoyable to hunt knowing you can use the .300 on red deer for example, the .22lr for racoons, the .270 on roe deer etc.

unreal axle
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Well I mean you still can use those weapons it’s a matter of if you care about the medal being ruined

warm fog
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Probably much too late in this games life cycle to make a change like this .... perhaps in HCOTW 2.0 ???

static yarrow
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I'd be game for a rework, particularly for a totally new system that doesn't even look at the ammo type and instead relies on the actual terminal ballistics of each shot. But I don't think the fiddliness of getting rid of the classes while still basing it on the cartridges would be worth the benefits. I think the main goal of the class system isn't accuracy, but accessibility.

icy root
# bright herald I've come up with a system I think would work best, I think grouping animals and...

I love the idea of adding it to the codex for sure. However the tier system is meant and intended to be a class system as a game mechanic. I have also been working on a solution to the ongoing debate and whole heartedly agree the classes need to be revisited. Part of my solution was to add ammo options using the tier system. Ex. .308 110gr T2-3, 168gr T4-6 180gr T-7. to add to it the selection of bullet type determines Range effectiveness, expansion, penetration. It still uses an existing mechanic with tweaks over an overall.

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The idea was to break down the calibers to the appropriate game over a general 3-7, 4-8, etc.

icy root
icy root
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Bump

winter pewter
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i like it
a lot of work tho

lean pelican
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It would take a lot of work but I'll be honest with you.

I'd happily pay for this change.

Release it with 5 or six new weapons and some backfill to older maps like Medved (Roe deer with a rework) and I'll happily pay 20$ US

neat stump
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Honestly, I'd prefer if we kept the class system. It's a simple and efficient way of communicating to players what ammo to use to pass the harvest check

What I think would be better is updating animal classes and ammo classes, as well as rebalancing ammo types. A lot of the rounds we use in-game don't accurately reflect their use and/or performance irl

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Some of us have also pushed for more guns to work like the Hudzik, where it can have multiple ammo types that cover different class ranges (like how irl cartridges will have different specifications that can effectively handle different animals)

dense dagger
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I actually really like this concept and I hate that you're getting so many thumbs down for it. It takes a lot of the arcade feel out of the more basic parts of the game, specifically class and level of animal. It takes a lot of the more realistic hunting aspect out of the game and just... "gamifies" everything by classing all of the species so I support this fully and entirely

neat stump
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Personally I don't see the issue with animals having set classes, and I actually prefer it. At the end of the day it's still a video game, and it makes a clear communication to the player as to what ammunition is appropriate for the animal. It doesn't particularly feel arcade-esque in that regard (something I feel is seen more in how the game is often a run-n-gun drink zone farming sim)

That being said, like I mentioned earlier, class placements (for animals and ammunition), as well as weapon balancing, needs work. Some ammunition doesn't ethically cover an animal that it can irl, some are downright just underperforming, and some animals are just in odd classifications (like how Gemsbok got dropped down lower in-game, despite being known for their resilience irl)

neat stump
bright herald
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I did not know this post got brought back to life, I completely forgot I even made it

dense dagger
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You're so fair for that LMAO

icy root
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I feel if they switched the #'d classes to Fish & Game categories and assigned ammo to the categories it would be alot more authentic. And as I stated with the image shared above it would be a welcoming addition to the codex. And would be accurate & informative to those who have never hunted before. Having info on the animal is great but including calibers suitable is an added bonus.

icy root
# bright herald I did not know this post got brought back to life, I completely forgot I even ma...

I brought it back bc as the game is evolving its getting more authentic with ea. passing year. The #'d classes were suitable at the start but has become an obsolete mechanic after releasing multiple class locked calibers. Its time the calibers, ammo, & game get an update to be authentic as well. Weapon packs are pointless after 22H, 7.62x54R, any 7-9 mechanically (1-9) on any reserve this is beyond sad. Which is why I suggested calibers get expanded & was submitted to the Development team. To further authenticity after ammo is adjusted, #'d class need to convert to Fish & Game categories. The posted image would be no different than how The Angler lists bait used on that fish. It makes just as much sense to have a list of qualified calibers to each game.

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I get where the numbered system is easy but its far from accurate and we all know it with multiple species that are clearly miss classed across the board and simply moving them around using the same mechanic isn't a solution its a band aid. Reworking to official Fish & Game Categories will fix any class issues & ?'s stated throughout the feedback threads. If I recall Classic uses official categories as well but dont quote me. Yes we all are aware its a game and I'm not suggesting gameplay to change like spawns & behaviors. I'm suggesting a rework to titles. •Class1: Waterfowl/Upland Birds/Upland Game •Class2: Fur Bearer Species •Class3: Small Game •Class4-5: Medium Game •Class6-7: Large Game •Class8-9: Dangerous Game •Class10: Safari Dangerous Game. Take 9 #'d classes to RL categories. In doing so putting the proper game into their actual class category. Ammo will specify game as such. Ex. 243: Sm, Med, Lg •300win Med, Lrg, DG etc. Ex. Whitetail deer: Medium instead of Class 4 •Moose: DG instead of Class 8 •Cape Buffalo: Safari DG instead of Class 9 etc.

covert eagle
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Maybe it's because I'm used to classic and that's how classic does it, but I really would rather this than the classes.

icy root
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Honestly the classes and weapon class locks over complicate the game. The difficuly should be in the hunt itself and the species we hunt; not our tools & equipment. Everyone is familiar with Fish & Game Categories for huntible game. The #'d class system only complicates gameplay & confuses those who have never hunted before. How odd would it be for a new hunter to walk in and ask for class 4 ammo for a deer hunt? And yes I have had ppl ask me this working at an outfitter.

neat stump
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To be completely fair, that's not a problem with the game. If someone came to me irl and asked if I knew who sold "class 4-8 ammo" I would genuinely laugh at them. Failure to differentiate a video game from real life doesn't put Expansive Worlds at fault

icy root
# neat stump To be completely fair, that's not a problem with the game. If someone came to me...

I do agree with you but its still mixed messaging regardless of the fact. As a US hunter atm it does frustrate me with how game is classed and the caliber I use in the field doesn't pass in-game. & I'm not the only one. Dont misunderstand I do love the game and its progress since launch but since its evolving to authenticity I only see it fitting to do it right within reason & stages. Starting with our ammo class expansion like the Hudzik, Bows, & Shotguns.

neat stump
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I still don't really see how removing the class system changes anything if you just expand what ammo can cover
At the end of the day, I feel like the class system isn't that complicated (I picked it up pretty quickly back when I first started playing, and I have actual hunting experience), and the problems for me are in how restrictive some ammo types are, or how some don't work for animals that they work on irl

I absolutely get where everyone is coming from regarding this, but condensing several classes down into one class doesn't sound like a solution to me

icy root
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I'm not expecting these kinds of changes for a while. If nothing else its to be considered for another title.

icy root
neat stump
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No I was talking about your suggestion. Yours features a class system as well, but with a few being condensed down (like 4-5, 6-7, 8-9)
And I still feel like updating the ammo system to be more inclusive would solve this problem more efficiently than completely reworking the entire system

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You're essentially asking for a big portion of the core gameplay mechanics to be completely reworked, rather than looking at ways the system can be improved to be more flexible without a total replacement

icy root
neat stump
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I also feel like your suggestion is basically just the current class system but with different names and a few being a comhination of current classes. Instead of the game's own classes 1-9, you're suggesting classes 1-7 with different names. I personally don't see what that fixes aside from using irl naming convention

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I'm absolutely all for making classification and ammo functionality more like real life, but I don't see what renaming classes 4-5 to "medium game" and class 9 to "safari dangerous game" fixes

icy root
icy root
# neat stump I also feel like your suggestion is basically just the current class system but ...

This is an older post and needs updated but this is an ex.
Waterfowl-Upland Bird
•Ducks •Geese •Widgeon
•Quail •Pheasants •Grouse •Ptarmigan •Turkey

Small Game (< 40lbs)
Hares/Rabbits/Grey Fox 15lbs/Tibetan Fox 12lbs
•Racoon Dog 22lbs •Racoon 26lbs •Red Fox-Jackel 30lbs

Medium Game (40 - 300lbs)
•Musk Deer-Bobcat-Muntjac 40lbs
•Coyote-Lynx 66lbs •Peccary 88lbs
•Springbok-Chamois-Ibex-Hog Deer 110lbs
•Blue Sheep-Mouflon-Feral Goat-Snow Leopard-Iberian Wolf 120lbs
•Blackbuck 126lbs •Roe Deer 130lbs •Pronghorn-Kangaroo 142lbs •Mtn Goat 150lbs
•Blacktail-Tahr 160lbs •Axis-Fallow-Sika 175lbs •Grey Wolf 180lbs
•Mule-Whitetail-Mtn Lion 200lbs

Large Game (300 - 1500lbs)
•Bighorn Sheep 315lbs •Boar-Pig-Hog-Warthog 330lbs •Rusa 353lbs
•Reindeer-Caribou 375lbs
•Black Bear 500lbs •Red Deer 530lbs •Gemsbok-Blue Wildebeest 600lbs
•Barsingha 620lbs •Nilgai 635lbs •Elk-Alligator 1100lbs

Dangerous Game
•Grizzly 1100lbs •Sambar 1200lbs •Brown Bear 1300lbs •Moose 1500lbs
•Lion 500lbs •Tiger 680lbs •Banteng 1800lbs •Cape Buffalo 1900lbs •Bison 2200lbs

cerulean ore
icy root
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Hornady was an example I used for ammo rated to what game when I did this. I did adjust < 50 to < 40 as well. It was easier as a visual so if ppl dont believe me they could look it up themselves. & I took the time to look at each game irl over EW's game weights

icy root
icy root
# neat stump I also feel like your suggestion is basically just the current class system but ...

I read the other part of your response late. But its intended to move game out of the class system & put them where they belong authentically. The example I posted above was using true game weights and how Hornady's ammo breaks them up like most ammo manufactures do. However I cant find my older post where I have EW's game in categories by Fish & Game. And I do know EW can rework this as they have redone alot of content from scratch over the years its a matter of will they?!

As an odd developer the truth is the community directs the content. But its up to EW if they feel it goes with their vision or not. Based on the 8yrs I've seen playing they are getting closer & closer to authenticity.

In hindsight really all this does is reclasses the appropriate game to their respective categories while also accurately arranging calibers & ammo to be accurately distributed to game they cover irl over class locks. But as you said and I agree; the alternative is to expand classes with our existing ammo like the Hudzik that has 3-7/4-8 ammo. The bow •Blue (1-2) •Green (3-7) •Red (7-9) arrows. Which is what I submitted to the team for review with the thread I shared above. This at the very least would solve ammo/caliber coverage as an authentic solution to EW's #'d classes.

icy root
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I also hope that they tie in additional feedback from the community in the update. I dont expect this change alone I hope they take the time to do the ammo expansion, buffs, reworks, class changes, etc. in a big update down the road. In the meantime, as I've mentioned b4 I'll keep hunting game with the calibers I use on Game IRL regardless of if it passes the harvest check bc I think its wrong to lock calibers to a set class.

bright herald
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yall this post is meant to be dead why are you popularizing it ☠️☠️🙏

icy root
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The main reason is "in short" we want authenticity at least as close as we can.

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2nd I love the idea of adding calibers suitable for ea. Game in the codex its an idea that shouldn't be ignored.

rapid leaf
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I wish the game was more like Classic where it showed which animals were ethical for which calibers whenever you look at the Ammo.

icy root
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from what I see alot of ppl want classics features back over classes & many also prefer Classics Mechanics & Classic imported to console (though I'm aware this was announced already it wouldn't be).

icy root
lean pelican
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I'd prefer classics method, you get so much more freedom to play the way you want to

lean pelican
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Bump