new map gun problem

[gray terrace]

As a firearm historian and collector I personally think choosing a martini henry in 577/450 makes zero sense why choose a black powder cartridge especially such a slow sluggish round that's also made of lead. In my opinion going with a ruger no1 based rifle in 458 win mag would be a way better option and that's just sticking with a single shot rifle there many others I could bring up but moving on. I think a bolt action rifle would be the best choice as it allows quick follow up shots which mean the most when it comes to hunting dangerous game. How about a remington model 700 based rifle in 375 H&H or 458 win mag, a pre war model 70 or model 98 mauser as many people want a controlled feed rifle in a dangerous situation as it's extremely reliable and not prone to jamming unlike a push feed rifle(the model 700) when panicked. Another option is a larger caliber double rifle preferably chambered in .600 nitro express as they are well known to be used as a stopping rifle when dangerous game is charging. I could go on and on when it comes to this topic I also personally thing that every firearm in the game needs a rework with the characteristics of the cartridges but that's a whole different topic.

[cold geyser]

Because the Gahendra Rifle is from Nepal and .577/.450 is a classic tiger hunting caliber.

Also, Tsavo Maneaters.

a Canadian Arctic map is a perfect way to introduce a .458 Win Lever Action or .375 H&H Bolt Action with the Himalayas out of the way, it’s highly likely that is what we are getting next.

It’s also important to note that ballistics aren’t really demonstrated from what I’ve been told… it’s something like an explosion at the tip of the barrel and one at the predicted point of contact not accurate ballistics sadly.

[gray terrace]

@cold geyser why go with a outdated cartridge makes zero sense. There are many cartridges that are thousands of times better then .577/450. Just saying because it was there doesn't make it a good choice especially cause the game is based in modern time. Jim Corbetts choice of rifles would be a great addition, his .450/400 double rifle or .275 rigby. He killed multiple man eaters with and I think a Easter egg around him would be a great addition as well.

[cold geyser]

Throwback to the past I assume (might as well save those big boy calibers for a specific pack catered towards it, perhaps alongside Africa 2.0) and again seeing as this game is almost 8 years old I doubt we will see any changes to the engine to include ballistics, so we pretty much have to hope for cotw 2.

.577/450 isn’t really that outdated now that I think about it, still has fairly regular usage in the modern hunting sphere.

[iron chasm]

No

[gray terrace]

Definitely not it's a black powder cartridge and no modern firearms support that cartridge.

[cold geyser]

Yes it does lol, plenty of plains game animals are being taken with them all the time. It’s certainly holding its own despite its age (something Remington can just barely muster).

[woeful glacier]

I do recall a Martini-Henry chambered in 577/450 being used to kill one of the two Maneaters of Tsavo

[iron chasm]

Give me a group of people still using this gun in the plains because buddy that is the least common thing here.

[gray terrace]

@cold geyser where are you getting this information? Because with my knowledge no one useds this cartridge today.

[woeful glacier]

Too be fair, it took several shots from several rifles

[cold geyser]

Here is a great article about this man’s Martini Henry, not too sure it’ll work because discord https://exclusive.multibriefs.com/content/577-450-martini-henry-for-hunting/recreation-leisure.

Africa hunting (website) also has tons of people showing off their martinis infront of animals.

[woeful glacier]

Knowing EW they will make it a powerhouse (Since they can't seem to get ballistics right in this game)

[woeful glacier]

https://www.africahunting.com/

[iron chasm]

The round is super outdated they have conversion kits for the martini Henry but buddy the round is not even used in the Great Plains as people have started using much more modern and common calibers it wouldn’t make any sense. And the tigers that were killed with it I feel terrible for because this caliber can’t penetrate tough and thick skin nor does it even have the fire power to be considered a good cartridge. Any modern cartridge will penetrate more than it which is what we would want when dealing with big game as well knock down power is needed and is shown with the 577/450 but it’s not gonna penetrate heavily. And If it does that’s wack.

This round is going around 610 m/s which is completely obsolete from any modern big game cartridge

[iron chasm]

I don’t see a single martini buddy

[woeful glacier]

I was linking the entire website so one could check the website out for themselves

[iron chasm]

Crazy how the website you link even says it’s obsolete

[woeful glacier]

You seem to forget one thing: This is theHunter Call of the Wild, the ballistics in this game are far from perfect, EW will probably turn the Gahendra 577/450 into a hand cannon

[iron chasm]

https://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/2020/08/27/the-martini-henry-577-450/

This gun shooting rounds as fast as 500 nitro but nowhere even close to getting the energy and would make a terrible addition for a tiger.

If im getting stalked by a tiger personally i want what would be best for me in that situation the only gun in the game that could do anything would be the 470 or 338 and truthfully id rather use that than the 577/450 cartridge becuase its pathetic

[cold geyser]

Because it’s mostly a fun thing you take out every now and then. Sure, it’s no 6.8 Western or 6.5 CR but that doesn’t mean it’s a terrible choice for any and everything.

[gray terrace]

338 win mag or even 338 ultra mag is definitely to small of a cartridge for stopping dangerous game but at range it would be a great caliber.

[iron chasm]

I want a gun that’s made best for a situation none less. I can see your point for it being used on deer and medium game but the fact still stands we need a larger caliber pack for the future if we are heading into big game territory.

[gray terrace]

6.8w and 6.5 creed are both terrible cartridges for hunting.

[cold geyser]

6.5 being bad for hunting is a fairly big misconception. It has roughly around the same performance as a .308.

[gray terrace]

Incorrect again bud.

[toxic crystal]

Whether .577/450 is still in widespread use doesn't seem super relevant to me. Not a ton of people are hunting with caplocks either these days but I enjoy having the option in the game.

I can't call myself a firearms historian/collector but I appreciate them adding a weapon with interesting local history, in a new cartridge, and with an action we haven't seen yet in the game. A bolt action is more efficient of course but the game has plenty of bolt actions and they all blend together after a while.

We also don't know its class range yet, and the store page doesn't seem to proclaim that it's specifically intended for tigers.

[gray terrace]

6.5 creed was designed as a target round. I wouldn't shoot anything larger then a whitetail with 6.5 creed

[cold geyser]

You definitely can and it will do good but ok bud. https://ammo.com/comparison/65-creedmoor-vs-308#:~:text=The cartridge rim of the,Creedmoor is a barrel change. Goes over the stats and they are pretty damn similar.

[woeful glacier]

I guess we will have to wait an see what classes the Gahendra covers

[iron chasm]

Have you personally shot anything with either of those rounds? Because I have and 308 is still hitting harder than that 6.5. Generally 6.5 is like a needle and is just not gonna expand the same inside of an animal like that 308.

[gray terrace]

I agree it would be a neat addition to the game but looking at it as a hunter it's a obsolete gun and cartridge.

[toxic crystal]

btw do we really need to turn this into the same thread seen a million times over on the internet by arguing over the merits of 6.5? Nothing productive is gonna come of that.

[iron chasm]

I’m not arguing about the 6.5 it’s what he’s comparing it to

[gray terrace]

@cold geyser do you have any real world experience with anything to do with this topic. Taking stuff of the internet and real experience are two very different things.

[worn saddle]

Outdated? We have muzzleloaders.... They fire literal balls of metal

[woeful glacier]

The only other weapon that I could think of would have been fitting from a thematic point of view is a Lancaster Pistol given how it was a popular sidearm for hunting dangerous game in the 19th century until better options came about and at the time could be used as a "Howdah Pistol" aka self defence against tigers at close range, until as stated before: Better options came around (There was also a rifle version of a Lancaster Pistol made for the Maharajah of Rewa as a hunting weapon, and it had 4 barrels)

[gray terrace]

Are you going to hunt dangerous game with a musket or a bolt action rifle?

[toxic crystal]

And I'm not suggesting anyone should be taking it out in the field in the real world. But I'll definitely be using it in the game on Sundarpatan.

[worn saddle]

honestly? it's a game, if you don't like what gun the devs put in an update, wait for the next one.

[gray terrace]

It is fun the mess around with in the game but looking at it in a real world point of view it wouldn't make sense

[woeful glacier]

Same, In the real world I would go with something like a 375 or 416 for dangerous game, but in the game, bring on the Gahendra

[gray terrace]

I'm just giving them my knowledge. Most the guns in the game are not even comparable to real life.

[woeful glacier]

A lot of stuff in the game does not make sense from a the real world point of view unfortunatly like Lesser Kudu on a South African reserve or Peccaries in Patagonia

[gray terrace]

Definitely. It is a video game and nothing is perfect.

[worn saddle]

Fair enough i see your point

[gray terrace]

In my opinion I think the gun there going to add is just plainly a bad choice. Hopefully if they do go with that gun, they add a dangerous game weapon pack.

[worn saddle]

i think the new gun is just a silly goofy mess-around boom stick that i will definitely be using to have some silly fun because i want to enjoy my time playing this silly little video game

[woeful glacier]

Like the #1234163261696512082

[cold geyser]

I have shot .308, 7mm-08, .22lr. This is turning into an argument over two of what are essentially the same caliber lol.

[gray terrace]

Definitely not "essentially the same caliber" I could go into great detail on how wrong that is but that's not what this topic is about.

[toxic crystal]

just plainly a bad choice.

From the standpoint of 1) the game's Gahendra being intended for tigers and 2) that every weapon in the game is meant to be absolutely optimal. The first assumption may end up being the case but we don't know yet. The second assumption is certainly not the case, and you even seem to admit that in some of your comments.

[worn saddle]

can we all just find some common ground in the fact we all like doing silly goofy things in a silly goofy VIDEO GAME?
I'm tired of infighting in the community when we should all be focussing on having fun with the game while it's out there for us to enjoy.

[cold geyser]

They literally have almost the exact same ballistics except 6.5 is generally flatter shooting and less recoil. And yes, I’ve hunted. Horse and pack Caribou, Blesbok, whitetail, etc.

I mean you can literally go on YouTube and see hundreds, maybe thousands of ballistic gel comparisons and they are pretty similar.

[gray terrace]

Not part of the topic. And pretty much all of the information you have used has been just stuff you looked up on Google.

[tranquil girder]

It isn’t about efficiency. The Gahendra rifle- which is what the Nepal D.L.C. rifle is based on- is the most Nepalese gun ever. As a vintage gun owner, I’m sure you understand the history of it

[cold geyser]

It literally displays and compares the ballistics of both .308 and 6.5 almost always ending up the same, they preform pretty much the same.

[tranquil girder]

Objectively, there’s better rifles. From what I’ve seen; the semi-autos are practically playing the game on easy mode, but people still use other guns because it’s fun to work around their strengths and weaknesses

[woeful glacier]

I like to run the 470 because its fun dancing around a herd of angry buffalo, There is a good chance I'll be dancing around angry yaks with the Gahendra should that rifle cover Class 9

[tranquil girder]

I like it because it fits Africa

[gray terrace]

As a modern hunter in the game I want somthing that it efficient and actually makes sense to use. But that's my opinion.

[worn saddle]

It's not always about efficiency. Its about fun, that's why video games in general exist. Entertainment.

[woeful glacier]

Then use that 300 magnum semi-auto when the map comes out if you want efficiency

[tranquil girder]

Fair enough, but there’s also other D.L.C. that sort of fill that niche. Wasn’t that the point of the Power Pack? Big game bolt action rifles?

[gray terrace]

That rifle I personally thing was a strange firearm to add. I use it for resetting spawns but we're getting off topic.

[woeful glacier]

I use the 7mm from that pack for almost every species from Class 4 to 7, mostly because I have something else for class 8 weather its the 338 from that same weapon pack or the 454

[gray terrace]

None of those rifle were powerful. When I think powerful I think 458 win mag 375 hh 375 ruger 458 lott and I could go on and on. 7mm mag is a great cartridge but I'd never use it in real life on dangerous game not enough stopping power

[woeful glacier]

And speaking of the 454, why worry about what an older rifle can do in real life when we have the 454 in COTW, it can mess up Cape Buffalo well enough

[gray terrace]

I'm wanting more realistic options.

[hardy mountain]

Because I want to hunt like the hunters of the 1900s not some rich American who owns a .375

[bronze hawk]

Thank you the shout out there @woeful glacier

[hardy mountain]

People use 6.5 a lot to hunt mule deer and elk

[gray terrace]

Don't have to be rich to own a 375hh many options out there that are affordable

@hardy mountain look up Jim cobett and the double rifle he hunted with

[gray terrace]

Iv heard a lot of horror story's about people shooting mule and elk with 6.5 and not being able to find the animal and guides not allowing people to hunt with that cartridge.

[hardy mountain]

He also used a martini Henry so what’s your point

[gray terrace]

He perfered his bolt action. 275 and his double rifle

[hardy mountain]

People hunt elk with .243 and kill them with a single or double shot to the lungs, so I feel that is more on the person not having the right grain or hitting the right spot. Not due to the gun

[gray terrace]

243 is capable of killing a elk but not at range. Not very many people dumb enough to go our elk hunting with a .243.

[hardy mountain]

Yes but his first kill was with a martini Henry and considering the variation of the Henry we are getting is made in Nepal it is a more fitting rifle

[hardy mountain]

But the rifle that is a lower caliber than the 6.5 is capable of killing an elk, but you’re telling me that the 6.5 is a useless round for hunting ok. Also if you as a hunter are not confident in your ability and in your gear then you shouldn’t be hunting, it doesn’t matter what gun you have.

[gray terrace]

I'm more then capable to take a elk up to 500 yards but this is completely off topic. I never said it could kill as well. Just because a firearm is made in the place we're hunt doesn't make it a great placement.

[hardy mountain]

My point was that it doesn’t matter if you’re hunting elk with a 6.5 or a 30-06, it matters that you know your gear and limits because you can kill elk fine with a 6.5 if you understand the limits, whereas you could use a more suitable rifle in your opinion that you’re not comfortable with and harm an animal.

[gray terrace]

Completely off topic.

[iron chasm]

You realize that In the 1912 375 h&h was made

[iron chasm]

I don’t think he loved the martini lol

He preferred his 450-400

[hardy mountain]

I never said he did, I just simply stated that he used a martini, and for the 375 I doubt OP was talking about the 1912 version, and even if he was why would they not add a historic rifle that is used in the region

[iron chasm]

Also buddy it’s not about whether it’s capable it’s about whether it’s efficient and sure it can be with the right shot placement but 300 win mag and 338 are common along with some smaller cartridges like the 30-06, 7mm, and even the 308. People look down on the 6.5 due to bullet size which I have to agree with it’s not the best for the job.

And @gray terrace is a friend of mine and I can promise you he himself does have irl experience with taking and harvesting elk and unless you do too than your word is useless.

Bullet sized matter when taking big game whether you want to believe it or not as the knockdown power/energy of that 6.5 is nothing close to that of a 300 or 338

[hardy mountain]

I assumed. Yes I get the point that if a rifle is more effective then another you should use that if you’re comfortable with that rifle, however that was not my point. My point was that the 6.5 can be used to harvest western game and is a suitable hunting rifle which stgwolf said it was not. That is what I was simply saying.

[iron chasm]

He believes it’s not because there are better calibers for taking certain game which I agree with. It is a suitable cartridge I have one myself but I still will prefer a .30 caliber bullet.

[hardy mountain]

What, could you please explain a little more?

[iron chasm]

I prefer the .30 caliber bullet over the 6.5 because I’ve noticed when taking game the .30 seems to always expand more within the animal as well as hit harder depending the round. I love my .308 and I love my 30-06 but the 6.5 I will use for target practice or truthfully long range coyote hunting or even pigs.

[hardy mountain]

I never said that the 6.5 was a superior round to a .300 or .338 for elk hunting I was just stating that the 6.5 is a viable hunting option if you know the limits and are comfortable with it.

[iron chasm]

And ik that, but for somone who would want an exceptionally more efficient round using the 300 or 338 is a better option.

[hardy mountain]

I agree, my main argument against wolf was that he said the 6.5 is a target caliber and should exclusively only be used to hunt whitetail at max, which I was saying is incorrect based off people killing larger game species efficiently with the 6.5 and smaller calibers like the .243

[iron chasm]

Because he believes that doesn’t necessarily make it true but his argument generally is strong because using it for bigger game than deer and anything medium sized would be truthfully a less effective round for the job. When I hunt I want the best round there is for the job no matter what to make the kill as efficient ad possible . I believe the 6.5 can be used for certain larger game but generally it will be less effective as killing the target.

[hardy mountain]

I can agree with that, I just wasn’t agreeing with the all or nothing point he was trying to make.

[iron chasm]

That’s just him, I believe everyone deserves an opinion no matter how wrong they may be they are able to have it for whatever reasons that they may believe .

[hardy mountain]

In my eyes it matters more that the person knows the limits and is comfortable with their equipment than if they have a superior round to another.

[iron chasm]

And that’s fine, we believe we want the best option for the job to get the job done. I personally prefer the 300 win mag over the 338 because it’s a fav of mine and I’m comfortable with my rifle. But let’s remember that this is now what this discussion is about and that it’s about the new somewhat crappy gun there adding which I agreed with @toxic crystal message.

[gray terrace]

6.5 was designed as a target oriented cartridge and there are so many better cartridges for taking larger game. But this is way off topic. My favorite cartridge is .280 Ackley improved. I elk hunt with a 3006 and now will be hunting with a 300prc. I mostly bow hunt elk. You could technically kill a elk with a .22lr.

We've gotten way off topic

[woeful glacier]

Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a thread get off topic, won't be the last

[spare scroll]

Efficiency... If the devs tought like that we wouldnt have any muzzloader, any classic (anything) and god forbid bringing bows to the conversation lol, only modern rifles. There are enough powercreep for grinders with the DLC rifles,

[gray terrace]

@spare scroll as iv stated I just think it's a bad choice especially for a tiger looking at it in a realistic approach.

[runic plank]

Personally I don’t really care if it’s a bad choice for a new gun or not. The caliber is an absolute powerhouse, and it’s a throwback to the past. Yes, you have your .375 H&H and your .416 Rigby that would’ve been cool, but the Gahendra Rifle is very important to the history of Nepal, and it’s just a cool looking breech loaded gun.

[gray terrace]

Already went over how that's a weak cartridge. Even Jim corbett didn't like it.

[tranquil girder]

Gotta see how it’s implemented

[runic plank]

At distance it’s an incredibly poor caliber, as are basically any round calibers (like 9.3x74r). It’s meant to be a close range round, for charging animals. It has a reputation as a poor penetrating round, but it’s still a powerful round at close range.

[gray terrace]

It sill sucks as a stopping cartridge as well.

Overall not a great cartridge for dangerous game.

There most likely going to add it and it's going to be a neat addition. I personally think it's a bad choice but hopefully they come out with a dangerous game firearms dlc.

[runic plank]

I hope they come out with something like that too. A .375, .416, and .500 revolver perhaps?

[toxic crystal]

most likely going to add it

My guy, they are 100% going to add it. This update is likely coming in 2-4 weeks. The weapon is finished by now, any voice lines referencing it have been recorded, it's a selling point on the store pages. There's no stopping it at this point.

You'd be much better off waiting until after it's out, seeing the stats and performance, and suggesting tweaks for it based on that, rather than hoping they'll just scrap everything right before it comes out.

[gray terrace]

Never said they should scrap it just brought up how there were better options

I really hope they have a Easter egg about Jim Corbett

[tribal meadow]

Have you considered creating and suggesting a new weapon pack of your own, in lieu of eluding to a single upcoming rifle as a problem?

It’s more productive, and you’ll join a collective of creative appreciative people all while potentially contributing your individual knowledge and experience to theHunter.

I’ve watched many suggest new concepts and perspectives, the developers are always listening.

[gray terrace]

Read everything iv stated

[tribal meadow]

Best of luck with your thread then..

[gray terrace]

Somthing wrong bud?

Brought up my perspective and knowledge on it.

And have talked about dlcs as well

[gray terrace]

Well watching how the new gun performed was about what I suspected. Terrible. We need a dangerous game weapon pack to deal with the tiger.

[bronze hawk]

I’m just gonna make a quick shout out to The Dagga Boy Blaster Pack.

[iron chasm]

I like mine more

But that name is more iconic lol, I find it funny how many people trashed @gray terrace opinion and now are like yk what yeah the guns bad. Like we said it would be lol that round ain’t it.

[cold geyser]

More on EW’s part but yeah.

Its ballistics are on par with a .45/70 which is 4-9 (despite being weirdly bad at everything in its class range).

[iron chasm]

Yeah so all that arguing was for nothing huh and we actually knew what we were talking about that’s crazy.

[cold geyser]

Cool…? It should be 4/9.

[gray terrace]

Which is terrible

[iron chasm]

It wouldn’t even do good at that roll

[iron chasm]

Which also I complained about the 45-70 needing a buff because it’s not even good

[cold geyser]

I have too, and everyone who knows anything about .45-70 has too, why are you so up in arms😂😂😂

[toxic crystal]

What do you mean how it performed? We didn't even see it used against something in its class range. It (obviously) obliterated the fox and didn't kill the tiger. But we now know it's classed 4-8 so it's not supposed to kill tigers. You guys decided on your own that this reserve was going to have a class 9 gun and you're judging the Gahendra against that assumption, when it's not something the devs ever promised. So I don't really understand what your little victory lap here is all about.

[gray terrace]

It's just a useless gun outclassed by everything.

[toxic crystal]

The rifle is nothing special but the ammo has both high penetration and high expansion at the same time. Should be interesting. I'll be more open to you complaining about it after you've actually used it yourself.

[gray terrace]

In real life it sucks. I'm going to try it but I already know the outcome. It's going to be outclassed be most guns already in the game.

People are going to use it for problley a month and never use it again or rarely use it. Just like every other terrible gun that's been added.

It's definitely a cool addition but it will never be in a permanent loadout

[cold geyser]

You could say that about every gun since modern weapons pack and especially since the “Heavy” weapons pack.

[gray terrace]

A ton of people only use them so what you say doesn't answer nothing. A lot of people use the best. I don't use ranging so I use the guns that have the least bullet drop or the ones I know the best. People will use what they prefer. The new gun is just not it. We need somthing that can actually take down the tiger. Somthing new.

[iron chasm]

That’s untrue, the 577/455 doesn’t have high penetration what so ever, the bullet will instantly expand on impact.

[toxic crystal]

In the game, mate.

[iron chasm]

Dude just stop defending the gun it’s bad idc how much you may like it sure it can probably handle any deer species and it will be fun to use for those but besides that it is kinda useless, It’s outsold by every other firearm in the game. And if it is truly like the 45-70 like @cold geyser than that’s a let down of its own.

[iron chasm]

Your not wrong about that tbh I can’t think of any gun better than those possibly besides the 303

[toxic crystal]

Dude just stop defending the gun

I'll continue doing whatever I want, actually.

sure it can probably handle any deer species and it will be fun to use for those but besides that it is kinda useless

"Other than being fun and able to handle the most common sizes of animals in the game it's useless." Wut? Sounds very useful to me.

[iron chasm]

Not useful if you have literally any other gun dude and on top of that if your a grinder it’s definitely pointless like you continuing to try to convince people who know about firearms and there efficiency about a round that we very well understand off the specs of peoples personal encounters with it and with others using it as well as understanding that it’s let’s not forget BLACK POWDER so for you to say anything is truly not confidential.

[toxic crystal]

Have you not listened to what anyone here is saying to you? No one is trying to make the argument that it's a better, more efficient gun, neither in the game or in real life. One person literally started their comment with "It's not about efficiency," so honestly it's hard to imagine how we could make the point any clearer for you. It is not the best gun, but it is an interesting gun and plenty of us who aren't min-maxing are going to use it and enjoy it. If that upsets you then that's your problem to deal with.

[iron chasm]

we already know that the point is your trying to say it’s good when it’s not because you yourself just said it sounds useful when it really isn’t besides a gun you just use for fun. Considering when your using it I hope a tiger sneaks up on you and we will see how useful it is than if that’s all you got in your hands.

[woeful glacier]

This is an open forum
If he wants to continue defending the Gahendra, he can

[iron chasm]

And he can, but my point still stands 😂

I’ve already said people can have any opinion they want whether there right or wrong doesn’t matter but if they have a reason to stand for it they should. I already understand his reasoning but than he keep coming back to try to justify nothing and it’s just pointless.

[woeful glacier]

You can always back out of the conversation

You do know that right