Why Lions in class 7 makes no sense.

[void citrus]

With the announcement of animal reclassing on the horizon, numerous players have been asking EW to make lions class 7…

LIONS ARE DEADLY
If you were to go on a Lion hunt in 2024 with just a 7mm your guide will laugh at you because you think that a 7mm will stop a cat that can kill you in half a second is good enough, here is a reminder of what calibers are legal dangerous game calibers .454, .470, 9.3x74, .338

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1212956899037675571

[frosty canopy]

I never hunted in Africa myself yet even I understand that Lions are tougher then they appear and require larger calibres to bring down effectively

[frosty sedge]

Yep

[light thunder]

Agreed! Making them class 7 would be goofy. From the hunts I've watched, these are dangerous animals and are to be taken seriously. More aggression is what these guys really need☝️

[void citrus]

If they were to switch aggression levels with wolves they would realize why they deserve class 9.

[crystal idol]

Speaking of 9.3x74r can we please get a buff for it?

[void citrus]

I think a proper dangerous game load for the 9.3 would be perfect!

(And maybe a nice bolt action alongside it 👀 👀)

[crystal idol]

If I'm not mistaken. 9.3x74r don't really come in bolt actions, mainly single shot or over and under. However 9.3x62 do and its just slightly less powerful then 9.3x74r

[void citrus]

Rigby made a really nice one actually.

[short canopy]

I've seen plenty of lions in the wild. I honestly don't care what class they are but Class 9 is definitely overrated. Many animals are deadly so that's not really a valid argument. Class designation should be based on size and what can kill it - legal or not.

[void citrus]

Which would end up being class 9.

[short canopy]

'Probably' is not a convincing argument.
[The original OP text has been edited so this discussion isn't even an honest one🙄]

[crystal idol]

My main question is why would anyone use 308, 30-06, 303 over 300 or 338 on Lions in cotw?

Not to mention 6.5, mosin and 270 definitely not gonna be used on Lions

[void citrus]

So you’re trying to tell me you’d rather shoot an apex predator with a .303 rather than a .416???

[short canopy]

To be fair, I've not tried those on lions. 243 will kill them though. Just got to be a good shot. LOL

[short canopy]

Huh? What??? Am I??? What?

[void citrus]

If lions were anything lower than 9, you’d be shooting Lions with a .303, .308, 7.62, etc…

[short canopy]

And? Will those not kill them?

[void citrus]

Probably not, but if it does it won’t kill the thing before the lion kills you, your guide, and your backup.

[short canopy]

Hmmm. And is this true for the classification of every single species in the game?

[void citrus]

We are talking about lions, not all… what??? 100+ animals.

[short canopy]

Well, if you're so adamant about the principles of the classification being applied to a single species then those principles should be applied to all species. Otherwise the argument is weak.

Everybody could use the same argument at random about any of the species.

[void citrus]

I’m fairly certain EW themselves have said lions are classed 9 because of their danger…

[void citrus]

What would you class lions at?

[short canopy]

The species list was very different a few years ago. Hence the revamp. What they said back then means nothing now. Hence the revamp.

[void citrus]

How is that in reference to what you would class lions at since class 9 is “overrated”

[short canopy]

These opinions suggest that the 308 will mow down lions.

[void citrus]

That is not in the slightest ethical😂😂😂 Just because you can doesn’t mean you should… especially when you are taking another living things life.

[short canopy]

I haven't seen anything to convince me that lions should remain at class 9.

[short canopy]

There's nothing unethical about killing a digital lion. 😂

[void citrus]

The only reason you should be using a .308 against a lion is in a self defense situation, when you don’t have a single cartridge in your .416, .375, .458, .577, .454, literally anything else😂 same applies to .22’s being able to kill a polar bear… I don’t see you arguing that Polar Bears (when they get added) should be class 1.

[short canopy]

Now if the developers wanted to implement a penalty system to create a sense of realism (re ethical hunting) then that is something I would get behind. But the classification should be based on size and difficulty. Not ethics or legality, because both those two things can change at any time in any country.

[void citrus]

Ethics and legality further the reason they are classed the way they are which plays into size, weight, etc when a wounded animal come charging towards you because you used small arms ( 7.62, .303, .30-30, etc) you’ll wish and need a lot of stopping power. Which is why many countries probably want hunters rather to be safe than sorry. Are you sure you lived in Africa???

[short canopy]

Anyway, night fella. I've said what I said. Don't think I can be any clearer. Note, I've been nothing but polite to you and been respectful of your views. You haven't convinced me yet. Maybe another time.

[void citrus]

I’m not sure how this is hard to grasp, I’ll dumb it down a bit, dangerous animal (can easily kill you in half a second) - wants to kill you after you’ve wounded it - die because whoopsies no big boy guns, just small gun - game over, no respawns. Recommend/ and or minimum calibers are set for a REASON, Lions are not to be messed around with.

[short canopy]

What you're able to grasp or not grasp is really a 'you' problem. Insults are not a convincing argument either. But they do reveal your level of maturity and your ability to cope with disagreeable views. Good night. 😂

[void citrus]

I’m just dumbing it down a bit chill… someone’s angry.

[short canopy]

Yeah, you. PMSL. 😂😂😂😂😂
Get some sleep, mate. Read it again in the morning when you've calmed down. It's just another opinion. You still don't have to like it. And that's okay. Peace.

[void citrus]

Wait, I thought we were going to sleep 30 minutes ago…

[short canopy]

I am talking to teenager? LOL 😆
GOOD NIGHT. ✌️

Congratulations on your 40th. Oh you've deleted that. Anyways...

[void citrus]

Ahh the classic escape and tell a random person on the internet that they are a kid…😐✌️ (thank you, I’ll be celebrating it with my family🎂).

[frosty canopy]

Its kind of obvious you came in looking for an argument

[short canopy]

Moose, its a forum. For discussion and debate. I've added my opinion and that's that.

[frosty canopy]

And because this is a forum, I will respectfully disagree with your opinion that lions should be knocked down a few weapon classes based on size alone, and unless you can convince me otherwise, I will continue to stand on the hill that the Lion should remain a class 9 species

[short canopy]

And that's cool and I totally respect that. My first post in this thread said that I wasn't bothered about whatever class they end up being. I just disagree with A's argument as to why it shouldn't be lowered. I actually have a lot of respect for A and have supported just about every one of his suggestions. Just not this one. I personally think lions should be lower than 9 and I stated my reasons above. But essentially, animal classes are not my top priority. I think that's fair enough.

Anyway, its 4am here and I need some sleep!

[vagrant juniper]

@void citrus hey I honestly think that if lions were changed to class 7 it'd be stupid I actually even think lions should be class 10 if at some point EW makes a Africa 2.0 with the Big 5.

However when you talk about lions being super aggressive I have not ever seen a lion go aggressive in game I've never seen the behaviour change or movement showing that the animals aggressive so how exactly does it make sense that a highly aggressive animal is in class 9 if it isn't even aggressive in the first place a further explanation on whether lions are aggressive in game or not would be much appreciated

Also how old are you?

[fossil kraken]

I mean, I believe that they are smaller than grizzly bears.

If I'm not mistaken, the reason for the larger calibers is so they can be killed easier if they charged. I may be mistaken, as this came from light research. It even said that in most cases 30-06 can be used to kill them. However, because of certain situations, the larger calibers need to be used.

[void citrus]

So, the way it works is If you even think of getting close… they’ll insta kill you like if you were to sneak up to a needzone they will go for the throat, I’ll try to take a video later.

[vagrant juniper]

But I meant in game

[void citrus]

Yeah, it’s like that in game right now.

[vagrant juniper]

I have never had a lion attack me before

[short canopy]

At about 50 metres, they'll start growling when you crawl up to them and then, if you stand up quickly, they'll run away. But there is almost no reason anyone needs to be crawling up to lions. I'm sure you'll agree that they are one of the easiest kills in the game. And easy money. Lions very rarely stalk you but if they do, you will hear them in plenty of time and a quick zig zag movement will cause them to miss their pounce, after which they'll flee. Wolves, buffalo and moose are more dangerous because they will keep on attacking you. If this game based their class designation on how dangerous an animal's mechanics are then lions would be a class 3. 😂
Okay, jokes aside, lions are a class 7, purely based on their mechanics when you consider how easy they are to kill.
The reason why they are class 9, and will remain as such, is because of a limited 'ethical' mechanics system that is attached to the bullet calibres. Many people will think that this system is perfectly fine. That's okay. I'll happily agree to disagree, without meaning to cause offence to anyone. The system is unlikely to change anyway which is why I keep stating that, at the end of the day, I'm not that fussed on this issue.

If you've read this far and you're curious, this is a summary of how I think it could work:
Animal classes would be based on their size, weight and hardiness of withstanding weapon penetration. Right now a weapon, such as the 308, that drops a lion on the spot (tested yesterday) will do enough damage to kill a class 8 moose but the moose will run 150 metres before he drops (also tested). Which is not consistent in terms of the class allocations, imo. I would love to see COTW apply a consistent classing of animals across the entire game and then implement a map-tailored ethical hunting system that would penalise the awarded medal as it does now (gold to bronze etc) but could offer up a lot more possibilities and layers of realism. At the moment you can kill animals in many unethical ways with the correct weapon but without being penalised. I remember Jaxy saying that you can't hunt at night in Canada (?) so you could have hunting penalties applied to times, for example. Or distance, whatever. I think it would make the hunt a lot more interesting and we would also learn something about the areas we are hunting in. But, in reality, this would be too massive of a project to implement so I can't see it happening.
So for now, we are stuck with an imbalanced class system. And that's that.😌

[frosty canopy]

Minor thing, some people are allowed to hunt at night in Canada, but they have special hunting rights given to them by treaties signed by the Canadian Government with the First Nations, though this depends on the different First Nation Groups (For any one not familiar First Nations is a term us Canadians use for Native Americans)

On an more related note a weapon class rework would be fantastic for the game

[short canopy]

For sure. That's a really interesting point and something that a map-tailored ethical system could potentially play around with. Probably not that specific but night hunting permits sound pretty cool.

[short canopy]

And definitely yes to a weapon class rework!

[vagrant juniper]

If you want I can make one
@short canopy @frosty canopy

[frosty canopy]

I may post my own idea sometime in the future for a potential weapon class rework, but don't let that stop you from posting your own take

[vagrant juniper]

OK good luck brother see on your post

[short canopy]

Yeah, I was going to do one in a few weeks perhaps. but sure. Go for it. Let's get the conversation started. I'd love to hear ideas.

[frosty canopy]

My take is going to somewhat take inspiration from theHunter Classic's "Permitted Ammo System" (https://thehunter.fandom.com/wiki/Permitted_Ammo)

[frosty canopy]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1214654519355646022 here is my take on a weapon class rework

[calm stump]

Similar argument can be made for any big brown bear male. And yet they're class 7 ?

[void citrus]

Eurasian Brown Bear or Grizzly??? Because I think both should’ve been class 8 since they are literally the same animal with minimal differences.

[calm stump]

I agree

[vocal solar]

Currently Lions can one hit kill and if you add to that they are class 9 it means you better have a class 9 weapon with you at all times ... Changing them to 7 seems to make them less of a threat ....

[tiny bobcat]

I cannot aggree with you more, its mindnumbing how many people want to be the next jack o connor and be allowed to shoot lion with a .270, because ItS abOUt THe SizE oF a CarIBoU. However allow me to make a slight correction, 454 casull is one that you're ph may or may not let you use depending on the rules with handguns in whatever part of africa you're in. .338 is illegal in some places but allowed for lion and leopard in some.Typically the 375 h&h is the stated minimum or sometimes the 9.3x62 and it makes sense for these to be a minimum, especially for buffalo. NO PH WILL LET YOU HUNT BUFFALO WITH A 300 WIN MAG!!!

[obtuse raven]

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/question-regarding-caliber-minimums-for-lion-leopard.3585/

[frosty canopy]

Big Bump

[frosty sedge]

Bump.

[frosty canopy]

Lions are far tougher then they appear

It makes reasonable sense in my opinion