#The Hunter Classic 2.0

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

misty canopy
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I just started my journey as a THC player and I'm really enjoying the game sure I suck really bad but it offers a gaming experience I don't think I have ever experienced in any game that I've played my only issue with the game is the graphics while they're not bad for a 15yr old game I definitely wish the game had modern graphics.

As a ex hunter I no longer have the opportunity to hunt anymore which is very unfortunate but I try and find that joy in games and THC has helped with that for me even just shooting a Pheasant is rewarding for me while pro players likely don't have any issues shooting them I can find them abit of a challenge when you flush them and the aim wobble plays a part in it.

I think there's alot of the community who play THC and want a remaster or even a new game but with modern graphics.
I have not seen a post on THC 2 so I definitely feel like I'm sitting on a goldmine here.

I sincerely hope you enjoy this post and support I have/will put massive amounts of time and effort into making this post
Making it as professional and well made as possible I want this game badly and I'm hoping if this gets enough attention that Expansive Worlds will consider making this game if possible.

I feel that the perfect date for THC 2.0 would be the 25th anniversary of the THC.
I hope the game never dies and I don't want any attention to be taken away from the game it's something treasured by the community and I'd hate for this game idea to take away the love of the original.

More details will be posted.

Details:
Base Game Value: €29.99/ USD 32.45
2 starter maps

DLC Value:
Map DLC Value €7.99/USD 8.66

worthy gazelle
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55 dollars for a game 😭

misty canopy
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Scoring System:

Weight: Small Game, and potentially larger game
Skull: Predators
Horns: sheep,goats,bovids
Antlers: deer
Tusks: pigs

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Map 1: Washington State Hunting Reserve

Small Game:

Duck Species

● Mallard
● Northern Pintail
● American Wigeon
● Canvasback
● Wood Duck
● Long-Tailed Duck

Geese Species

● Canada Goose
● Greater White Fronted Goose

Rabbit & Hare Species

● Snowshoe Hare
● Eastern Cottontail Rabbit

Upland Bird Game Species

● Mountain Quail
● California Quail

Grouse & Ptarmigan Species

● Sooty Grouse
● Dusky Grouse

Turkey subspecies

● Merriams Turkey

Medium Game:

● Bobcat
● Coyote

Big Game:

● Whitetail Deer
● Columbia Blacktail Deer
● Mule Deer
● Mountain Goat
● Bighorn Sheep
● Black Bear
● Roosevelt Elk
● Rocky Mountain Elk
● Shiras Moose

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Map 2: Norwegian Hunting Reserve

Small Game:

Duck Species

● Eurasian Wigeon
● Eurasian Teal
● Common Goldeneye
● Tufted Duck
● Common Eider
● Long-Tailed Duck

Geese Species

● Pink-Footed Goose
● Bar Headed Goose

Grouse & Ptarmigan Species

● Western Cappercallie
● Black Grouse
● Hazel Grouse
● Rock Ptarmigan

Rabbit & Hare Species

● Mountain Hare

Medium Game:

● Eurasian Badger
● Red Fox
● Roe Deer

Big Game:

● Fallow Deer
● Wild Boar
● Mouflon
● Red Deer
● Eurasian Moose
● Eurasian Brown Bear
● Reindeer

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Bows & Crossbows: Base Game

BE 2984 Compound Bow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

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HMT 1171 Compound Bow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

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BCO 7352 Compound Bow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

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SHM 124 Recurve Bow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

misty canopy
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URX 865 Recurve Bow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

sour helm
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Can only hope we get a classic 2.0 at some point! I like the idea and it would be interesting to see them follow the COTW model (base game and future DLCs). I think what makes classic great is the difficulty/spawn rates. Spawn rates being everything from total animal spawns. Percentage of trophies, percentage of rares, percentage of bucks, does, etc. And then the key being new, randomly generated spawns each session. I'd imagine following the COTW price model but with those key mechanics could be done.

I think probably the most unrealistic part of the whole post is the price point in 2034 😛 I think every game, sad to say, will be more expensive than that 😭

I like the idea and map concepts so far! Larger maps in a classic-style game would be really interesting 😄

misty canopy
sour helm
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Not that its a good thing, but I bet by 2034 that will be cheap feelssadge

misty canopy
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Bows & Crossbows: Base Game

FTP 888 Crossbow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

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HRR 500 Crossbow / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

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FOE 110 Crossbow Pistol / Small Game, Medium Game, Big Game

subtle thunder
misty canopy
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That is the plan

I was curious if you bought a DLC should it be that you buy the DLC and then have to pay GM to actually get the weapon but it's much less than what a normal weapon would be or if you buy it and the n just get the weapon.

sour helm
solar shell
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Wanting them to develop a whole new hunter game?

subtle thunder
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Kinda Like A Classic Situation Where They Stopped Making Maps After COTW Released.

sour helm
misty canopy
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I was curious if you bought a DLC should it be that you buy the DLC and then have to pay GM to actually get the weapon but it's much less than what a normal weapon would be or if you buy it and the n just get the weapon.

Yeah that makes more sense @subtle thunder

subtle thunder
subtle thunder
grand musk
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Great idea

sour helm
subtle thunder
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Then Again, I Spend Waaaay Too Much GM Taxing Animals

misty canopy
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@grand musk thank you I plan on putting more effort into this concept than any and every map Idea I have made so far

Holy crap this thing is blowing up its been like 2hrs and I've already got 9 likes

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I would normally get like 9 likes in a day or even 2

subtle thunder
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A Lot Of People (Myself Included) Really Want Classic 2.0. I Especially Want One On Console, Because I Don’t Wanna Spend Money On A Steam Deck.

sour helm
grand musk
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@sour helm hey flinter

sour helm
misty canopy
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What are peoples thoughts on the weapon selection for the base game I wanted to bring some similar classics like the Crossbow Pistol

subtle thunder
grand musk
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@misty canopy also your welcome I like the idea to make more modern graphics and tweaks to the game I've only played the classic a few times when I had my old pc and I really enjoyed it do this would be a great thing for the classic members I feel

subtle thunder
misty canopy
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Is anyone interested in seeing the map selection for North America?

sour helm
subtle thunder
sour helm
misty canopy
misty canopy
subtle thunder
misty canopy
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I plan on potentially adding more but I still gotta think it through more

Oh I forgot Nunavut

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@subtle thunder @sour helm now we're not exactly new to the backfilling scene and I was thinking I can only do minimum of like 25 species and I was thinking there's a few cool species in these countries that I couldn't fit so I had to leave them out but I want to know your thoughts on backfills for this game concept you know later in the future when they could use some love if hypothetically it was made

shell ginkgo
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Yes but no dlc. I would rather have the gm/em system but just everything cheaper. Dont want this turning into cotw 2.0

misty canopy
shell ginkgo
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Hey as long as it's just the exact same game😄 my personal favorite game of all time so would be a dream to get a remaster

misty canopy
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Potential Species for EW to consider adding for backfills to the Washington map

●Lesser Scaup
●Ring-necked Duck
●Red Head Duck
●Gadwall Duck
●Northern Shoveler
●Bufflehead Duck
●Ruddy Duck
●Surf Scoter
●White Winged Scoter
●Black Scoter
●Common Goldeneye
●Barrow's Goldeneye
●Snow Goose
●Ross's Goose
●Ring-Necked Pheasant
●Northern Bobwhite Quail
●Ruffed Grouse
●Red Fox
●Mountain Lion

misty canopy
shell ginkgo
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But if I wanted each map with the base game it would be like 130 dollars? Lower the price of maps to 3-5 dollars.

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Unless it wouldn't have the same maps at launch

misty canopy
shell ginkgo
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But 100+ Dollars for a smallish hunting game is crazy

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The whole point of classic is that you can go anywhere in the world for free and explore and hunt for completely free. You can hunt every animal in the game for free with the starter weapons (besides water buffalo).

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Again fully agree with this post just lower the price of maps.

misty canopy
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There 7.99 Euro 8.66 USD

trim torrent
earnest star
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oh so this is what I drew that map for

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also dont ask why I'm awake at 4:34am

grand musk
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Lol

misty canopy
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Holy crap guys 20 up votes in a day 🤩🤩🥳🥳🍻🍻

misty canopy
misty canopy
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Everybody ready for a new map DLC idea!!??

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What continent should I do?

wild shell
wild shell
misty canopy
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Hmm I was thinking of Russia kind of go in the direction of cotw sorta

cosmic wadi
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thehunter classic was great. totally needs a remaster/remake

misty canopy
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Man I love the Pheasant hunting in this game

misty canopy
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OK I got a pretty good idea that I hope you'll love it's not exactly your typical type of hunting but it's a place very well known with many game species

misty canopy
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Map 3: DLC Argentinian Hunting Reserve or non fenced hunting ranch

Welcome to the country of Argentina a hunter's paradise in South America with a large selection of Waterfowl and big game hunting the fun never stops.

Small Game:

Duck Species

● Silver Teal
● Yellow Billed Teal
● Yellow Billed Pintail
● Fulvous Whistling Duck
● Cinnamon Teal
● White Faced Whistling Duck
● Chiloé Wigeon
● Black Headed Duck
● Andean Crested Duck
● Andean Speckled Teal

Geese Species

● Andean Goose

Partridge Species

● Grey Partridge
● Red Legged Partridge

Medium Game:

● Capybara
● Axis Deer
● Blackbuck
● Feral Goat

Big Game:

● Fallow Deer
● Wild Boar
● Mouflon
● Mountain Lion
● Patagonian Dall Sheep
● Red Deer
● Pere David's Deer
● Water Buffalo

misty canopy
earnest star
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I'm so talented with these mid map looking drawings

misty canopy
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You sure are

earnest star
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EW should hire me fr

misty canopy
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@earnest star EW should be hiring me too I could bring alot of ideas to the table

earnest star
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we should both just get hired even though we possess zero game creating knowledge or experience

misty canopy
tardy kite
misty canopy
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@tardy kite I'm 14 so I doubt I'd be allowed to work with a company like that

wild shell
earnest star
wild shell
earnest star
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oh dear God you've done it

wild shell
wild shell
earnest star
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its a sacrifice you must take

wild shell
earnest star
misty canopy
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@wild shell consider this as your intervention me @earnest star can/will help you

" Stop it get some help "

wild shell
wooden shard
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Sounds a lot like the hunter without classic

misty canopy
wooden shard
misty canopy
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I just counted and there's 35 new species

keen depot
misty canopy
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@keen depot oh thank you I'm glad they're good I want to make map ideas that are large fun and have species that works for all types of players

keen depot
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I also like how you added Pere Davids Deer on the species list too. I don’t see them in hunting games

misty canopy
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If you have suggestions pls let me know and I'll see what I can do

keen depot
misty canopy
keen depot
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You have a species list in mind for British Columbia? I am pretty excited to see if you have any ideas in mind

misty canopy
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I will have to do research but I can get back to you about that

sweet root
keen depot
misty canopy
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@sweet root hi thank you for the feedback I'll be sure to keep in consideration I chose to include these species because I don't want to have too many small game species and they are huntable so I wanted to include them

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@keen depot that's very kind of you I'd definitely like to know what locations are good for hunting and species just send me a DM and we can converse

keen depot
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Oook Ill DM you now

wild shell
sweet root
wild shell
misty canopy
sweet root
sweet root
sweet root
wild shell
misty canopy
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The fallow deer is only found in small areas of Norway, and there are currently only wild populations in Østfold east of the Glomma River

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Fallow deer
Wild fallow deer are rare in Norway, but a number of different populations have become established as a result of animals escaping from farms. Fallow deer males are called bucks, while the females are does.

FALLOW DEER PHYSIOLOGY
The fallow deer is the rarest member of the deer family in Norway, and the species that people are least familiar with. It is much larger than a roe deer, but slightly smaller than a red deer, and is only found in a few places in East Norway.

It is easy to distinguish the fallow deer from the other members of the deer family, as it has small, pale spots along it’s flanks. It also usually has a long, white stripe along its abdomen, which stands out against it’s brown or gingery coat.

Fallow deer vary much more in appearance than the other members of the deer family, so some individuals may be covered in chalk-white spots, while others have virtually none.

As well as only being found in small areas of East Norway, the fallow deer is extremely shy and quick to run away if it sees humans or predators. It is therefore rare to encounter a fallow deer even in areas where they live.

WHERE DOES THE FALLOW DEER LIVE?
The fallow deer is only found in small areas of Norway, and there are currently only wild populations in Østfold east of the Glomma River.

The Norwegian Biodiversity Information Centre previously classified the fallow deer as ‘high risk’ on the Norwegian Black List, but has since downgraded it to ‘low risk’ because it does not really spread very far, as well as having no known impact on the ecosystem.

There is reason to believe, therefore, that by and large the fallow deer will continue to live in Østfold in the future.

In summer, the fallow deer prefers to live in the open cultural landscape, while it moves into the forest in the winter months.

sweet root
misty canopy
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RED DEER Cervus elaphus Hjort In municipalities which permit red
deer hunting
10.09. – 15.11
ROE DEER
MATURE ROEBUCK
Capreolus capreolus Rådyr
Voksen rådyrbukk
In municipalities which permit roe
deer hunting
In municipalities which permit the
hunting of adult roebucks.
25.09. – 23.12.
10.08. – 23.12.
WILD REINDEER Rangifer tarandus Villrein The entire country (all reindeer
territories)
The Local Board for Wild Reindeer
Management may extend the hunting
season an additional two weeks in
October when necessary to meet
population management goals.
20.08. – 30.09.
FALLOW DEER Cervus dama Dåhjort The entire country 25.09. – 23.12.
MOUFLON Ovis musimon Muflon The entire country 25.09. – 23.12.
II
The followi

wild shell
sweet root
misty canopy
sweet root
sweet root
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fallow deer is an introduced species in Norway, and can only be found in some parks/fences, as of today they do not live wild in Norway, fallow deer are smaller than red deer, but considerably larger than roe deer. the fur varies somewhat in color between individuals; but is most often reddish-brown in summer, with a darker stripe from the neck, over the back and to the tail, the winter fur is somewhat darker, most fallow deer have characteristic white spots along the sides, while the legs are lighter, the fallow deer has, like deer and roe deer, a white "rearview mirror". unlike roe deer and red deer, the red deer's transom is framed by a black stripe that resembles a (large) "M"

sweet root
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This is the facts?

wild shell
# sweet root This is the facts?

It isn't, I know enough about wildlife distribution to know that they are wild fallow deer in Norway near the border of a way better country called Sweden

sweet root
wild shell
mystic furnace
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Lets keep discussion clean and not fall back to tell people to frick themselves - esp skirting automod filters.

sweet root
mystic furnace
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if you can't handle that, consider taking a break from the convo and coming back with a cooler head.

wild shell
sweet root
wild shell
# sweet root Sure thats your opinion not mine

No it's a fact
-sweden is cheaper
-sweden is more accessible
-sweden has more people becouse it's objectively better
-sweden has more good stuff like Volvo and Ikea
-sweden has good food like köttbullar (køttbullar I you can't read normal stuff) and chocklad boll
-sweden also doesn't own overseas territories at the other end of the world

sweet root
wild shell
wild shell
trim torrent
jovial frigate
boreal sorrel
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@misty canopy i love this idea, if you need any help with creating content for this idea you can ask me for help, i enjoy doing that

misty canopy
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Thank you I'm glad you enjoy if I do need help I will definitely be sure to ask you thank you very appreciated

solemn sable
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Need this

keen depot
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Reserve Name: Akpait Hunting Reserve

Welcome To Akpait Hunting Reserve. Here, you will push yourself like never before, physically and mentally. You will have to deal with freezing temperatures and snowstorms. You will have the opportunity to hunt from the cold plains, to the dangerous but sunny mountains. There are some good things though. You will have the chance to hunt some very cool and amazing animals. We wish you the best on your expeditions.

Ducks: Wood Duck, Blue/Green Winged Teal, Mallard, Gadwall, Canvasback, American Wigeon, Pintail

Geese: Snow Goose, Ross’s Goose, Greater White Fronted Goose, Pink Footed Goose, Canada Goose, Cackling Goose,

Small Game: Rock Ptarmigan, Ground Squirrels, Arctic Hares, Arctic Fox

Big Game: Polar Bear, Musk Ox, Barren Ground Caribou, Walrus, Arctic Wolf

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If there is anything that needs changing or adding, do let me know!

keen depot
wild shell
keen depot
wild shell
keen depot
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If there is anything that needs to be changed or added, please let me know though because some of these species look a little off. I did research and all of them migrate to Nunavut a lot

wild shell
keen depot
wild shell
keen depot
misty canopy
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@keen depot haha you beat me to it I was planning on getting to this but uh I guess there's no reason may I ask what sources did you use for this Species list?

rapid sphinx
# keen depot Reserve Name: Akpait Hunting Reserve Welcome To Akpait Hunting Reserve. Here, ...

I would personally replace a lot of the ducks on that list: The Blue-winged Teal, the Canvasback and the Wood Ducks (Those species could be utilized on other North American Reserves, because lets be honest, Wood Ducks would work better in places like Quebec and Louisiana) with species like the King Eider, Long-tailed Duck and Harlequin Duck, the Arctic in general is a good opportunity to introduced a variety of diving ducks. Also Grizzly Bear could be an additional species as so could the Ringed Seal (seeing as seals are popular to hunt in Nunavut)

keen depot
rapid sphinx
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Nothing I can think of

oblique hound
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I've been playing classic for 7 years, 2,879 real hours hunting, 42k hunter score. I just want them to continue adding new content to the game, new animals, and new maps, I would even be willing to pay for those maps as if they were DLC. I don't need THC 2.0, I just need THC not to die.
That's my opinion, as a veteran.

misty canopy
oblique hound
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I feel that the high graphics are already good, I think that if they make a THC 2 it will not be the same as THC and I will not feel like I am playing THC, it will be more like a cotw2, I think I would lose the essence of THC. I think that when something is perfect it is better not to touch it

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Because the classic is like that, with those graphics, that competitiveness, that difficulty, those rare trophies etc...

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I understand your point, but personally, I would rather pay 7 or 10 euros for a map in thc than for a new thc

shell ginkgo
silver verge
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I like the graphics in theHunter: Classic, they may have aged a bit but they are charming in their own way. I do think some of the older animal models could do with an update to be on par with some of the newer models we have gotten.

My one complaint about Classic though is the lack of animal behavior. No matter what time of day or conditions they just wander around aimlessly. They also lack many interesting animations that mimic the behavior of their real life counterparts.

I genuinely can’t agree with calling Classic “the most realistic hunting simulator” when even Call of the Wild has more realistic animal behaviors (albeit very flawed and only due to Classics complete lack thereof).

If Classic is ever to receive a major updated or a new theHunter title ever released this is the only major improvement I would wish to see. Though maybe a more realistic and less intrusive tracking system would also be appreciated.

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I do wish for a new title from theHunter though, I love Classic but I think the engine is too old to ever correct its few flaws and I doubt EW would wish to continue updating it with regular new map releases. I do like CotW with its beautiful graphics and somewhat better animal behaviors but I also believe that its flaws are beyond fixing this far in development when it is more profitable to add new content to the game.

A new title could take what they’ve learned from both games and bring us a more realistic hunting experience with all the minor improvements that we will probably never see in the games available to us today i.e. animal models with fluffy coats, running water, improved animal behaviors with the ability for them to interact with each other and their environment around them etc.

shell ginkgo
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Cotw has much worse animal ai, they follow the same schedule every day and you can run with in 150 mtrs of animals within them spooking. Classic has much more realistic behavior with animals roaming around and sleeping at later parts of the day.

grand musk
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They should make it where the animals reproduce in game

silver verge
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CotWs behaviors are very flawed but they were a first attempt and giving life to each species. Pigs in game don’t act exactly like deer for instance. The problem is that they appear very undeveloped, over exaggerated and at times very buggy. Classic behaviors however are extremely minimal, wandering at random and feeding (I guess they kind of feed as they wander around anyway) and sitting and resting is about all that we see from them and most animals share this behavior no matter the species.

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The duck hunting in Classic though is unparalleled. No other game comes close in this regard.

grand musk
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@silver verge duck hunting is awesome in thc

sour helm
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There used to be some really nice animations like wayyyyyyyyyy back in 2010. Little ear flicks and head bobs and stuff that did bring animals to life more. Those were removed (I think) in favor of syncing everything for multiplayer release in 2013. Lots of animation changes and stuff around that time. While I do agree that some more nuance in specific animal behaviors would be nice, I still far and away think random aimless wandering produces a more realistic effect than need zones do ablobsunglasses

grand musk
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@sour helm do you think they can re add that stuff back into the classic to make the animation better again

shell ginkgo
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Maybe they Could add them back to only single player and not multy

silver verge
# sour helm There used to be some really nice animations like wayyyyyyyyyy back in 2010. Lit...

Definitely, need zones has always been weird. Especially with some animals suicidal need to feed and drink out in the open in broad daylight for a few hours. I didn’t actually know there were animations removed in Classic though, this does make sense and I can’t fault them for that. Gameplay should always come first of course. Classic is still my favourite hunting game, I’d just love to see more life in the game.

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I should also say animal behavior can differ greatly between countries so I’m sure my idea of “realistic” would differ greatly from the reality of other players. The large majority of the player base are most likely from the US, a country whose wildlife I am mostly unfamiliar with. The deer there, for instance, would probably behave in a much different way than the deer in my own country due to a range of different factors.

earnest star
misty canopy
oblique hound
oblique hound
# silver verge I like the graphics in theHunter: Classic, they may have aged a bit but they are...

The animals have many unique animations if you happen to observe them, for example one of the best animals in that sense is the wolf, they communicate with each other through calls and answer each other, they play with each other, they eat the carcasses of elk, etc. And so with many animals, sheep, mouflons and ibex fight among themselves. The game has many small animations, some animals attack, sometimes other times they don't

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or bird hunting is amazing in classic, a thousand times better than cotw

sour helm
# earnest star but there is still just something much more realistic looking about the animatio...

idk if I agree for WOTH, they have a very rigid movement that I dislike, but I do know what you mean in COTW. If you call an animal in for instance, they like... dont walk in a straight line right to you 😂 stuff like that matters. Again, old days... big bucks would act different. Any time I tried to call in a big muley buck back when I was new to the game around 2010. The big bucks kinda trotted around and were a real pain to get into close range. I would take that system back even 😄

earnest star
# sour helm idk if I agree for WOTH, they have a very rigid movement that I dislike, but I d...

in woth, idk to me atleast they feel like robots or smth, there is just something about them that doesnt sell me the fact they are real animals, also since we talking right now, any chance of me getting unbanned from your server? had a minor offense of jokingly asking for a dlc for my birthday back in december, I deeply apologize for my horrific actions and will NOT do it again I promise 🫡

sour helm
earnest star
sour helm
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I appreciate it! Did I misread the message earlier. I think we are in agreement about WOTH movement actually. Like the robotic movement and such?

earnest star
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when animals walk around they seem like they have a purpose or a goal or destination in mind, in woth its like they mindlessly walk to wherever they are going

grand musk
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@sour helm hey flinter big fan

silver verge
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I see a few people with complaints about CotW’s fundamental gameplay in the feedback channel lately. I agree with much of what they have said about how casual players feel forced to grind and acknowledge that grinding was not the intended way to play the game when it was first released, as quoted by the devs a few months back.

However, I really do not think these are issues that can or should be fixed in CotW. The grinding gameplay is enjoyed by a large proportion of the community. While it is certainly not the way I like to play the game I wouldn’t want to take away this experience from other players who do.

I also believe that grinding is too ingrained in CotWs gameplay after 7 years of DLCs and development supporting this style of play. I doubt much could be done to change it without largely overhauling a lot of the progress made to the game over the years.

This is another reason why I’d be supportive of a spiritual sequel to theHunter: Classic. This game could potentially be geared towards a more casual audience who dislike grinding in much the same way Classic does but with all the improvements that should come with a new and modern title. Those that prefer grinding would happily stick to CotW I’d believe, seeing as how many players still play Classic so long after release.

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I should note I’m not calling for EW to stop development on CotW in favour of a new game. Just saying it would be better to wait for a new game to come along that better caters to your tastes rather than massively changing the current one.

misty canopy
cosmic wadi
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@silver verge is Classic not grindy? just curious what you mean? or you're saying COTW is grindy because people look for diamond animals

shell ginkgo
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I think he literally means that a ton of people only grind in this game

oblique hound
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In classic u cant grind lol 😂😂, evry hunt have diferent animals

shell ginkgo
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You can grind geese and ducks. You can also grind for just money

oblique hound
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Thats not the same grind like cotw
That is just farm

shell ginkgo
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Ik grinding in classic isnt usually for trophys like super rare or anything its mostly just for money

misty canopy
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Bumping this one back up

misty canopy
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Bump

misty canopy
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Bump

misty canopy
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Bump

cosmic wadi
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have to say, something about just fast travelling everywhere and shooting animals just does not "feel" like hunting in COTW. even though need zones may be somewhat more realistic, thehunter classic "feels" like you're hunting more.

shell ginkgo