Dangerous game weapons pack idea

[steep quartz]

With the announcement of the new .300 magnum ar today I feel compelled to make this argument. .300 magnum and .338 should not be Cape buffalo and lion guns, they are illegal to hunt dangerous game with in most cases.

My proposal

A .375 h&h magnum bolt action rifle class 8-9

.416 rigby bolt action rifle class 9

.500 nitro express class 9

1-5x24 heavy recoil rifle scope that can only be used on the .375 and .416

Move red deer and gemsbok to class 7

Move water Buffalo, both bison, brown bear, and grizzly to class 8

Make the .300 and .338 class 6-8

[old moat]

I'd keep water buffalo at class 9 as they are the heaviest species in the game. As for bison I do agree with them being lower as irl people do use 30-06 on them ( not my first choice but its legal )

[drowsy rapids]

I personally would do a 458 Lott instead of 500 nitro. I would also like to mention the .425

[steep quartz]

Dangerous game weapons pack idea

I was thinking 458 Lott/win mag but also 416 as the heavy bolt gun. 425 would be a really sweet classic round. Just thought of a heavier double gun than the .470 even though it’s technically the most powerful gun in the game right now

[marsh dove]

Just make a class 10…

[drowsy rapids]

470 is only a little bit lighter compared to a 500 nitro. To upgrade from there, you would have to do 600 or 700 nitro

[marsh dove]

Also .458 SOCOM AR.

[steep quartz]

Yeah and given that buffalo is the biggest animal in game yet .577 nitro and larger wouldn’t make much sense.

[steep quartz]

.458 socom is one of those cartridges I just don’t understand the purpose of, it would be cool but honestly not much difference than the .308 ar-10 that we already have

[marsh dove]

.458 SOCOM Is (was for walrus) used for walrus hunting, Muskox, Moose… That more than proves itself, it could have a fairly unique and wide class range such as 5-9/6-9.

[steep quartz]

5-8 maybe, i know it would be similar to a spicy 45-70 but I didn’t really know how much it gets used for irl. I just know it as that one weird big bore caliber that for some reason ars can be chambered in

[marsh dove]

Walrus weigh 2 tons…

[drowsy rapids]

If you lived in a freezing cold ocean you would want to weigh 2 tons

[marsh dove]

That just goes to show.

[exotic flume]

I'm all for a proper High Caliber rifle, .30 caliber doesn't ever strike me as a "high caliber" just as a useful medium. My vote is for a .416, but there are lever actions cartridges designed specifically for very big game like cape buffalo and bison.

[steep quartz]

Yes some lever rifles have been chambered in something adequate for cape buff but those are pretty rare and just not what someone would think of as their first pick. I’d like a .375 and a .416 or 458 just to have one that can take Buffalo and lion but also something like a gemsbok or for moose and grizzly on Yukon (.375 is very common for those two in Alaska) then a big bolt gun for strictly the big critters. But cape buff and lion are for the most part have the .375/9.3 minimum which is sensible. Some areas deviate from it but it’s not a good idea because of how much more dangerous these animals are compared to a water Buffalo, bison or brown bear irl and I hope the game would reflect that. Leopard is another one that can have that minimum irl but sometimes not. If cotw adds leopard they’d have to placed pretty high due to reflect actual laws but maybe allow the .300 and .338 magnum

[exotic flume]

Modern lever actions using .45-70 are more than capable of taking down cape buffalo and lions, they are pretty common for bear hunting/defense in Alaska and lots of people in main rely on it for hunting moose. It's down to the cartridge a person chooses to use. A 325 grain hollowpoint used for black bear and deer is a poor choice, but a 500 grain hard cast or solid will easily punch through a buffalo. Particularly ammunition made by Buffalo Bore has a reputation for being a reliable choice for African hunts. If you judge by the older ammo then not much is adequate for hunting really big game, but modern cartridges are far more advanced and better designed bullets make a massive difference.

Side note, happy they announced a change in the .45-70 we have in game but worried they have somehow made it worse.

[steep quartz]

Yeah I didnt see any difference in the stats of the ammo jaxy showed. Yes a .45-70 CAN take a buffalo with special loadings but its just not common and many a professional hunter wont allow it. A 458 win mag will still outperform it with factory ammunition in a factory rifle and a 458 lott will really blow it out of the water. Pushing a 405 gr bullet at 2300 fps requires a very strong action only achieved by a ruger no.1 or some uber custom lever gun. Not to mention that the ammo generally has to be handloaded since I believe buffalo bore is the only one loading hot .45-70.

[final torrent]

I didn't catch that change for the .45-70 - what's new about it?

[exotic flume]

The Marlin 1895 (the one the in game lever action is based on) can handle any modern ammunition, even high pressure loads. Anyone who wants to actually hunt buffalo would seek out the right ammo to start with and a lot of guides rely on it to protect the clients. It's just not as popular outside the US, Bolt action guns are much more common and that's what people grow up relying on. They stick with what they know

[exotic flume]

We don't know yet, Jaxy mentioned it in the short about the new wepaon pack but we know nothing at all about it yet

[final torrent]

Gotcha.

[steep quartz]

Yes the 1895 can handle some high powered loads than are capable of taking down a Cape buffalo and certainly any moose or brown bear here in the states and I hope the 45-70 rework makes it viable for that.

But again irl a .458 win mag will still outperform a .45-70 hands down. I’ve shot and reloaded for both of these fine cartridges.

[exotic flume]

Lemme say this, 1895 Guide Gun (made by Ruger these days) can hold 7 rounds, even if the .458 can out perform per shot, it can't beat that many follow up shots and the high penetration of solids

[steep quartz]

I do hope the rework is going to include a hotter load that actually would work on buffalo therefor making it the best choice in the base game and before unlocking the .470. But for a dedicated dlc dangerous game weapon pack, I’d take the .416 or .458

Also a magazine increase for the current 45-70 since like you said the new Marlin guide gun ruger has been making holds 7 and I’ve seen the full size 1895 hold 12 I think, and the one in cotw holds a whopping 3

[exotic flume]

When I first heard of the "High Caliber pack" I expected a heavy bolt action in .375 or .416, the .300 is kinda disappointing to me honestly

The .300 AR is just a present for grinders, mildly annoys me but the other two weapons are enough to get me to buy the pack anyway

[steep quartz]

Yeah I’m for the 10 gauge and 45-70 pistol but the only time I’m gonna touch that .300 mag ar is for quick moose removal when they annoy me. It seems like they’re overpopulated on basically every map they’re on that isn’t Yukon or medved since it makes sense that moose would be plentiful there, but definitely not New England or Layton

[exotic flume]

Too many moose maps to start with

[steep quartz]

Yeah I’d rather see caribou on Finland and a higher whitetail, turkey, and upland bird population for New England. Layton probably shouldn’t even have em but I guess they did want to get them into the base game way back when there was only two maps lol

[exotic flume]

Much prefer a new African map, but they could definitely reduce the moose spawns on a few places

[marsh dove]

The .300 WM tactical will be super fun on an Arctic map, super popular rifle back before Alaska banned the hunting of pretty much all Arctic specific species.

[exotic flume]

Probably true for a lot of people, but it kinda ain't my thing and I'm way more excited for the other two weapons

[steep quartz]

Yeah for those that prefer the modern tactical stuff more power to you, I’ll stick to my more traditional guns.

[topaz phoenix]

Also move lions down to like 7

[marsh dove]

No???

[steep quartz]

They are dangerous game. Yea they’re like 600 pounds max but extremely dangerous (even though I can’t remember the last time I got charged by one in game) and irl (usually) have a .375 h&h/9.3x62mm caliber minimum

[marsh dove]

Lion aggression needs a rework, make it more like wolves where they come out of nowhere.

[steep quartz]

Yeah make them something to keep you on your toes, maybe not the whole pride but one or two with a 5% chance unprovoked and a 1/3 chance wounded. Buffalo should be the same. Something controversial would be to remove the trophy organ for these animals that can charge bc I’m not thinking get out of the way to preserve the trophy I’m thinking shot it between the eyes and drop him before he gets me.

[white thistle]

maybe kinda like how pheasants dont give a trophy unless flushed, they could make it so trophy organs arent important if the lion is in an aggressive state

[steep quartz]

Yeah that would make it better so that way you can’t just brain shot from 300 m away and grind them that way

[white thistle]

honestly they should do that for every animal in the game, if it goes aggressive, trophy organs arent important anymore

[steep quartz]

Yeah they really shouldn’t matter in a charge bc in real life I’m not thinking about preserving the trophy, I’m trying to not die

[marsh dove]

Headshots are super common in dangerous game hunts so I don’t see why it isn’t in game right now.

[steep quartz]

For croc, hippo, and elephant yes but they are not and should never be attempted as a FIRST shot on cape buff lion or leopard. If it charges all bets are off you need to plug one into the brain. When it’s not charging it’s too risky to take due to a very low margin of error.

[exotic flume]

it is for gators and crocs, which is common enough. just not other game

[chrome mulch]

I get that achievements like avoiding trophy organs and quick kill bonus are the ideal goal, we all want a fast ethical result as hunters. I can’t help but feel that not doing so makes more sense to result in less game/reward/currency rather than scoring of the trophy itself to me.. 🤔

[exotic flume]

It would make more sense this way, by far. They could do scoring 3.0 and make the weapons way more realistic (so we can just use the ones we like and trust that they'll do the job right) and reboot the scoring/penalty system to include pay reductions for bad shots/excessive damage (like a .470 on a rabbit or something)

[chrome mulch]

That sounds good. 👌

[marsh dove]

I hope whenever we get Cotw 2 it’s more Energy focused.

[steep quartz]

Yeah it would be so much better if it worked that way. I wouldn’t really want it to affect score given you don’t hit the head on the ones with a trophy organ. Let’s say I shot a deer with a .416 rigby, would I lose the trophy? As long as I didn’t hit it in the head no. Would it cause significant meat damage? Kind of (I’ve seen deer shot with a .416 it doesn’t blow them up as bad as you would think). Is it unnecessarily overpowered? Yes.

[exotic flume]

It needs to be more common sense based, you hit the trophy organ and you lose the trophy score, you use too heavy a caliber but make a decent shot it cuts into the reward money, you use too small a caliber and or take multiple shots you lose money for wounding,

If it was done this way, taxidermy costs would vary a lot too depending on damage

[steep quartz]

Yeah and that just seems both more realistic but also sensible, if you’re still lower level trying to grind cash and xp you’d just use a smaller caliber and make good shots. Find a great one or diamond then use something bigger for more insurance.

[exotic flume]

They had soemthing interesting with their original scoring system, but quick kill should be tied to your money reward, not trophy score

[steep quartz]

Alright this whole class rework is just weird and imo defines why a class 7-9 .375 or 9.3x62 is required and moving the .300 to be 5-8 and .338 to 6-8 just plain makes sense. Heck the .375/9.3x62 wouldn’t have to be a dlc it can just be added to the base game and have bigger guns in a dlc.

[exotic flume]

They have to be setting up for a bigger rework, its the only thing that makes any sense or its just insane

[steep quartz]

bump

[steep quartz]

Bump

[steep quartz]

Recent class changes almost give the reasoning for why this needs to be a thing.

[exotic flume]

we still severly need a class 8-9 bolt action for the really big stuff

[steep quartz]

Yeah given that grizzly are class 8 now, it to me makes sense for a class 8-9 .375 and moving the 300 to class 6-8. It’s also just more realistic that way

[exotic flume]

Lots of guides in Alaska carry .375s for moose and bear both, makes sense really but it'd be nice to see it in game too

[marsh dove]

I’d say 7-10 because It’s common place on leopard hunts which make the most sense in 7.

[exotic flume]

They call it the Queen of Medium bores for a good reason

[steep quartz]

Leopard should be class 8 or 9 due to them being classified as dangerous game most of the time

[marsh dove]

Just because they are dangerous game, doesn’t mean they are absolute tanks like lions, cape buffalo, moose, water buffalo, etc…

[exotic flume]

7 is a good class for them, they are more dangerous than cougars because of the reputation earned by wounded leopards. In the old days bullets weren't quite as well made or designed for it, so wounding happened a lot more often and leopards have a habit of attacking everybody they can get to when they are injured/ lions will focus on killing one person really ded when they are wounded/

[steep quartz]

bump

[steep quartz]

Bump

[steep quartz]

Bump

[exotic flume]

9.3x62mm Bolt Action
9.3x74R Over/Under
.375 Bolt action
.416 bolt action
Any of these would be VERY welcome

[runic talon]

I'd say the .375 H&H should be at least 6-9 or even 4-9, acting as a straight upgrade to the generalist rifles like the 7mm. Its recommended for large and dangerous game in North America and Africa respectively and is even acknowledged as good for plains game in safari websites. Confining it to 8-9 would be overly restrictive and there'd no real point to this proposed DLC since all three guns are essentially single-species guns in most maps.

[marsh dove]

.300 5/6-9 and .375 7-9 is a perfect spread imo.

[runic talon]

I'd say 6-9 would be more appropriate since that would encompass the plains game in COTW like Gnu and Oryx, as well as Elk, but keep it above animals where its too much gun like kudu, warthog and springbok. Outside of Africa, .375 H&H is also recommended for stuff like Red Deer, Moose and Elk in North America according to Wikipedia.

[marsh dove]

I’ve seen .300 be used for what are class 6’s way way way more than what the .375 is used for.

[runic talon]

And? There's probably more of those Class 6s that got killed by .30-06 as well.

Point is .375 is rated for em and has bullets made for em.

[marsh dove]

I haven’t even mentioned the game balancing factors as well, as much as I hate it.

[runic talon]

If anything its the .300 that should shift down despite being the meta-darling. Its not even legal for Cape Buffalo. It only got Class 9 because the Bison was class 9.

[marsh dove]

Yeah. I’m like the number one advocate of the .300 being either 5-8 (after bison have been moved to 8) or 5/6-9 and Cape buffalo get moved up to a class 10, I mean look at literally all of my posts, I’ll bet nearly all of them mention something about reclassing the .300. https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1212956899037675571

[white thistle]

make 9.3x62 class 2-9 because I saw a video of a dude shooting a fox with it

[marsh dove]

Make the (eventual) .375 2-10 because I saw people shooting the tiny ten with it!

[white thistle]

at this point add .50bmg and make it class 1-9

[marsh dove]

☝️☝️☝️

[steep quartz]

Yeah I’ve been saying for the 300 and 338 to be class 5/6-8 for a while and moving both bison down to class 8 especially now since the only class 8 are moose and grizz. A .375 could be class 7-9 and a 416 8-9 since 375 makes for an amazing elk rifle irl (if you can handle the recoil) and is a pretty popular moose and grizz rifle. Gemsbok and wildebeest could both be class 7 as well, many of those two have been taken with a 375 by those going on a one gun safari.

[exotic flume]

.375 recoil is about the same as a good .45-70 load, but since the .45-70 is in a heavier gun (usually a big lever action with lots of steel) it doesn't feel the same lol.

Also, You could absolutely make a "managed recoil" .375 load with plenty of knockdown power for elk and bigger

[steep quartz]

I don’t know what 45-70 you have but most are around 7.5 lbs while most 375 h&h rifles are around 9 to 10 lbs. Not to mention how much more power a 375 will have over a hot 45-70. The 45-70 does make for a great light weight brush buster for big game but 375 beats it out with ballistic performance.

[exotic flume]

I was shooting a 9.7 pound custom .45-70 (Marlin 1895) and buffalo bore loads. that's why I said it felt the same. Also, the .375 Ruger fits a standard .30-06 size action so the gun is way lighter (you can get them like 7.5 pounds) but the ballistics are similar to H&H

By the way, if you're taking shots with a .45-70 that you wouldn't take with a .375, you're taking shots where none exist. No matter what size the bullet is it will deflect on brush

[steep quartz]

So let me clarify brush buster, I know it’s mainly used to describe a bullet that can go through brush but I mainly mean brush gun as in a short light handy rifle for close range. Also the .375 ruger is imo a terrible cartridge because it really doesn’t improve on a h&h and being able to put it in a light gun makes no sense.

[exotic flume]

.375 performance in a lighter smaller package for close range shooting and areas where space and weight are at a premium

Alaskan bush planes heading to the remote parts of Kodiak island come to mind yeah?

[steep quartz]

That is true but in my experience a lot of pilots looking for a rifle for that role take a 45-70 and it really does excel having a lever action over a bolt gun in that situation. For the hunter knowing you have a guide or ph with you, you can afford to have a little bit bigger rifle. Don’t see too terribly many light weight dangerous game rifles in Africa.

[exotic flume]

They made a full sized one in .416 for Africa, just the .375 Ruger model was called Alaskan (stainless steel metals and hogue stocks

[steep quartz]

Yeah both of those rifles are nice rifles I'm just not a fan of the proprietary ruger chamberings. Wish the african was chambered in 458 win mag since its more common and still fits in a 30-06 action.

[exotic flume]

I don't like proprietary cartridges in the first place, part of the reason I dislike Weatherby as a company, their ammo is barely any different but higher priced