How To Improve Layton Lake

[sweet dagger]

I love Layton Lake, it's a good map with a good lineup of species, but I think it's really showing its age. I think this map needs a rework because it really does not stack up well compared to some newer maps.

First of all, backfilling. Layton is based in the Pacific Northwest, a region that has a rich variety of fauna. Common species in the region that are already in the game that I'd like to see added to Layton include:
Mountain Goat
Bighorn Sheep (could also get a model rework)
Red Fox
Raccoon
Green Winged Teal
Gadwall
Canada Goose
Mountain Lion (maybe)
Bobcat (maybe)

Along with backfills, plenty of brand new species could also be added to Layton Lake, mainly birds. Here are some I'd like to see on the map in the game:
Sooty Grouse
Ruffed Grouse (could also be added to Yukon Valley and New England Mountains)
Wood Duck (could also be added to Mississippi and New England)
Northern Pintail (also could be added to Mississippi & NEM)
Snow Goose (could also be added to Yukon Valley)
North American Beaver (can also be added to Yukon Valley, Mississippi Acres and NEM)
American Badger (could also be added to SRP)
Snowshoe Hare (could also be added to Yukon and NEM)

We could also use a rework to the animal home ranges on Layton Lakes, to make room for the new species and make the home ranges of existing species more cohesive and logical. Moose and Whitetail Deer should mostly be in the low elevation marshy/swampy areas and woodlands, Blacktail Deer and Roosevelt Elk should be in the coniferous forests and mountainous areas, and the Black Bear should be found in the densely forested areas. White Tailed Jackrabbits and Coyotes should mainly be in open grassy areas of the map. Other species' home ranges are already fine in my opinion.

One last thing: I think Layton Lake could use a slight graphical update, to bring it up to the quality we've come to expect from the more recent maps. Some more vegetation variety (especially shrubs and bushes) would also be nice.

Also, a lot of the older species on Layton could also use a rework/remodel to make them look more realistic, namely the White Tailed Jackrabbit, Roosevelt Elk and Blacktail Deer.

[primal charm]

Also,remove the screen grain,it’s pretty much only on Hirsh and Layton.

It hurts the atmosphere.

[sweet dagger]

Yes, that would definitely go a long way in bringing the original maps up to the levels of the newer maps

Here are links to topics regarding a remodel to the Roosevelt Elk and Blacktail Deer. Blacktail Deer especially need a remodel and preferably also a rework to their TruRACs since their racks (especially diamond racks) aren't very realistic currently. The Roosevelt Elk also could benefit from a remodel and a rework to some of their TruRACs, although admittedly the same thing can be said about the Rocky Mountain Elk.
#1072968447975227502 message
https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1111718419339952179

[sweet dagger]

bump

[sweet dagger]

going to make a similar thread for Hirschfelden since I think it also needs a rework of some sort. You can expect that to be posted by the end of this month.

also, here are some images of the new species I would add to Layton Lake. Obviously I don't expect every single one of them to be added, but at least four new species of birds and one new mammal would be really nice to see, if only to increase the variety on the map.

Ruffed Grouse and Sooty Grouse (Class 1 species)

Wood Duck, Northern Pintail, and Snow Goose (Class 1 Waterfowl)

North American Beaver and American Badger (both Class 2 species)

As for the species I mentioned before for backfilling, the Mountain Goat and Bighorn Sheep would both add some much needed life to Layton's high mountains (Bighorn Sheep also deserve a remodel, and backfilling them to Layton would be a great opportunity to give their models and horns some love).

Red Fox and Canada Goose would be species shared with the other base game map, Hirschfelden, giving base game players two options for places to hunt these two species. Green Winged Teal would further help to flesh out Layton's waterfowl lineup and allow new players to hunt this species without having to own Mississippi or NEM.

Mountain Lions or Bobcats would both fit in very well on Layton, but since it's a base game map, they might also make hunting too difficult for newer players, since those species spook other animals and that may be too much for new players to handle. If either one of these cats got added to Layton, they would need to have a low population on the map. However, if Bobcats get changed to make them only spook smaller animals, they could be added to Layton without causing many problems.

[little ocean]

I think this suggestion would fit better as "Layton Expansion", quite a while ago there were requests to "extend" the base maps or add different seasons of the year, make a new reserve with all the same renders (plants, trees , rocks) but different landscape modeling and with different animals..
Or just different seasonal foliage and new animals...

[sweet dagger]

Not all of the suggestions I made are entirely necessary. My point was to show how much more interesting Layton could be than it is currently, and how much potential this base game map still has if EW is willing to show it some love.

Personally I don't like the idea of physically expanding existing maps to make them bigger because that would probably be just as time consuming as making completely new maps from scratch (and also, Layton is already a very large and vast map).

I do like the idea of allowing players to hunt existing maps in different seasons with different species present though, that sounds very interesting and I might make a separate post concerning that in the future.

Layton Lake, in terms of a map layout, is already quite good though imo. I'd maybe add some new foliage to the high mountains to make it feel more like the real Pacific Northwest, and maybe add some beaver dams on the rivers if beavers were added as a new species. Other than that though, the existing environment of the map is pretty good overall.

[little ocean]

I'm not exactly referring to expanding the map in size, we know that is impossible, but rather making another reserve in the same geographical location with different landscapes but the same renders to be able to add those animal species that live there and that are not yet in the game

[sweet dagger]

Oh okay, I think I understand what you mean a bit better. So you're basically saying that they could release a reimagined version of the original map. I think that actually would make a lot of sense.

[tribal badger]

They need to have it to they have a drink time on Layton so they get hunted a little more I remember watching scarecrow and flinter hunt mountain goats and it was really cool to see more trophies for them posted

[sweet dagger]

I agree, Mountain Goats should have drink zones in the game. It only makes sense.

[primal charm]

Now that I think about it,Mountain Goat could be class 6 as well.

[sweet dagger]

just gonna bump this one up again since it kind of got buried in all of the other recent suggestions

[sweet dagger]

one more thing: I would like to see the Snowshoe Hare added to Layton as well. If White-tailed Jackrabbits would be changed so that they'd only be found in the lower elevations of the map, then the Snowshoe Hare could occupy the higher elevation forests to keep them separate. Snowshoe Hares would be a good addition to Yukon Valley and New England Mountains as well.

Since all three of these maps are set in Fall, it would be neat to include their brown summer coat, their white winter coat, and their molting stages in between. The brown summer coat fur type would probably be common, with the molting and white winter coat fur types being rares (just like how it is with the Mountain Hare) to represent hares that have grown their winter coat earlier than most hares.

[formal garnet]

Bump

[formal garnet]

I've been hunting some Elk on Layton today and definitely see a change that I would like implemented in the future. When they introduced the the moose great one or an update around then the elk population got butchered on my map atleast. Since we have a lot of other maps with moose but not elk I would like to see the elk population increased on Layton when they introduce an elk great one even if it meant reducing the moose a little.

Looking at the numbers Washington has 60000 elk and only 5000 moose so it would be on par with factual numbers if this happens. I don't really care about factual to much since it's a game but I know some people do so I thought I would throw out some numbers

[sweet dagger]

yeah I think Layton ought to have fewer moose, and more elk. Also decreasing the populations of species that are less common in the region would make more room for backfilling and potential new species.

[primal charm]

I also think whitetail populations should be decreased as there’s now more Blacktail and Mule Deer in western Washington than whitetail by quite a bit.

[sweet dagger]

This is kind of what I had in mind when I mentioned reworking the home ranges. Moose and Whitetails should really only be in the low elevation marshes, swamps, and aspen woodlands on Layton. The areas that are higher up in the mountains and conifer forests should have the Blacktails and Roosevelt Elk being the dominant species. I think this would make far more sense than how the species are distributed on the map now, where the Blacktails and Elk are only on the eastern side of the map and Whitetails and Moose are in the western regions. The current home ranges really don't make any sense, I think having it be based on habitat types makes much more sense.

[glossy hull]

Racoon, pheasant and bobwhite quail could also work well for Layton.

[sweet dagger]

I will add the Raccoon to the backfilling list. I probably won't add the Pheasant or Bobwhite Quail though because I've already suggested other upland game birds that I think would fit on Layton a bit better.

[lethal crater]

yea, im from washington state. Not specifically this part, but i've been to that area. Almost all of these species live here in the wild.

[glossy hull]

I hope we get these changes made and backfills added to Layton

[hazy sparrow]

I love everything except the mountain lions. They’re already annoying enough on SRP, I don’t want to deal with them in Layton too

[primal charm]

That’s why they need a rework… EW always releases an update alongside such a big update something like this would bring.

[topaz seal]

Just a little correction, Snow Geese could be added to Mississippi. They migrate their in the winter. Im not sure how that would work with the seasons though since Mississippi is a spring/summer map.

[deft flame]

I don't think it's spring or summer, the deer antlers are hard

[ripe fjord]

It would be sick to see season in every map instead of based game really, really all wee see is rain I wish the seasons would change

[topaz seal]

The color of grass and leaves make me think otherwise.

[primal charm]

Mississippi’s flood season is in September, it just so happens that Mississippi Acres is set in the flood season and most of the crops being grown in Mississippi are also typically harvested a few months later (whether that be a coincidence or not).

[foggy yacht]

It would be nice for varieties sake but having maps set in different seasons kind of ruins immersion I think. Having a reserve set in spring but with deer being in hard antler and still vocal as if they were rutting doesn’t make a lot of sense in reality. Still it would be nice to have more green forests like Whitehart Island in Classic.

[glossy hull]

Hoping we get these changes for Layton someday, it would make it so much better. Still one of my favorite maps!

[deft flame]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1218244992082907257 needed for yukon

[vocal raft]

Also, remove the ugly fish-like fake birds.

[lapis cosmos]

Wouldn't mind Whitehart Island type map for CotW

[high laurel]

Well Whitehart Island is based off of Washington State and we got Layton Lakes which is what I'd say to be Washington State as well so I'm not sure if that could work especially since people are sick of North America or the US I already suggested a Layton Lakes 2.0 idea that was not well received

I could make a suggestion though

[lapis cosmos]

I didn't say direct port of the map, just the same type of area is all. I'd do a coastal Alaska/BC type of thing if it were me. you got brown and black bear, sitka deer, elk, wolves, even the opportunity to add seals and walruses

[high laurel]

You can't hunt Walruses or Seals in Southeast Alaska or British Columbia

[high laurel]

I did make this idea it's geographically similar to Whitehart Island https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1224745065507721237

[lapis cosmos]

Native Americans are permitted to hunt them on subsistence/cultural reasons it is limited though.

[high laurel]

Yes but doesn't EW do it by whether a foreigner can hunt in that place otherwise they could just do China or Brazil or Egypt

[lapis cosmos]

Canada has also started culling seals in certain areas

If I'm not mistaken, in Vurhonga the warden says you are his adopted grandson and in Mississippi Acres the warden says you grew up to together or something. Could you not be born NA with parents who travel a lot?

[high laurel]

Well I guess if the map's characters give you information as to how you could have someone's part to do with the location liek Vurhonga then that could open some opportunities towards being able to hunt some species that would otherwise be excluded due to Foreigners or non residents not being able to hunt them

[lapis cosmos]

Alaska also allows proxy hunts, older or injured people with an active hunting license or subsitence permit can choose a huter to take their animals. meaning elders/ infirm people still get meat for the winter, proxy hunters are not limited to race just who the person chooses to be reliable enough

[wary minnow]

Walrus in BC & Southeastern Alaska?, the last time they lived that far south in the Pacific was between 30,000 and 15,000 years ago if the 28,000 year old bones from California are any indication, though to be fair that was during an Ice Age and they never went back that far south in the Pacific since

[high laurel]

Yeah that doesn't make sense since they only live in Western Alaska

[wary minnow]

Also related to the discussion about pinniped hunting but there are talks about reopening the Pacific Pinniped Hunt in British Columbia but currently its just First Nations hunters and the main targets are Harbour Seal and Stellar's Sea Lion

[wary minnow]

Fun fact, Atlantic Walrus used to live as far south as Nova Scotia until the 18th Century

[high laurel]

If I'm going to be honest I'm not surprised things were very different in the past and well we humans changed alot of stuff and probably stuff we could never reverse even with the best technology some things are just lost forever

[lapis cosmos]

I been landlocked my whole life, know nothing about seals/walruses

(except that the bone from a male walrus apparently makes a popular fish clubbing tool)

[wary minnow]

Oh I am landlocked too

[lapis cosmos]

Apparently i was thinking of sea lions i guess

[wary minnow]

To be fair a Stellar's Sea Lion bull is a massive animal that can get over 2000 pounds and even the females can get around 770 pounds in weight

[lapis cosmos]

More impressive than most seals, I remember reading about Settlers in Alaska having to shoot seals to get back to their boats

"The meat of these creatures is disturbingly like dark beef, though with a strange fishy taste" That line stuck with me for some reason, I'd still like to try eating seal. . .

[deft flame]

Where I am right now they are hunted haven't seen one yet but I found a skull on the same island 2 years ago

[sweet dagger]

bumping this one back up again

[tall siren]

same

[tall siren]

h

[sweet dagger]

How To Improve Layton Lake

changed the title to make it easier to understand

honestly I might completely remake the original post in this thread at some point, the way that it's formatted right now is a bit all over the place

[sweet dagger]

I'm planning to create a new thread that covers this topic a bit better

[sweet dagger]

Here's my updated version of this thread.
https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1330035521510178846