Improve unrealistic rifle bullet penetration

[silk geyser]

The rifle bullet penetration should go further.

[spark bolt]

Which….Rifle

[vast falcon]

It is especially weird, since arrows penetrate the animal from chest to butt.

[jolly spear]

Realism shouldn't necessarily overwrite game balance

[silk geyser]

All of them

[silk geyser]

Polymer bullets not reaching double lung on some animals and not reaching the heart on reindeer/caribou and bison etc is pretty unbalanced

[umbral rain]

this is a game that lets you shoot any animal at any time of the year, in any number you want

Whys it too much to ask that all the rifles work as well as they should?

Why does the new .44 rifle floor elk at 300m when the .30-30 can't take a red deer at 60? Personal experience with both calibers in rifles i've hunted with, the .30-30 should be way more capable than the .44

[spark bolt]

Truth. I’ve Absolutely Folded A Mule Deer At 40 Yards With A .30-30 In Real Life, But I’ve Shot A Raccoon With A .44 And It Still Ran For Quite A Bit.

[umbral rain]

Game would be so much more fun if you could just stick to your favorite weapon and KNOW it would drop what you needed it to

[kind wigeon]

COTW desperately needs a terminal ballistics rework from the ground up.

Meanwhile EW has this unwavering fixation on "balancing" the weapons for the sake of of creating a suitable "challenge" to the player.

Now, 'conveniently' this also aligns with an unapologetic power-creep that makes newer DLC weapons more powerful.

imo, it's very unfortunate that certain perople on this server are (semi)aware of the issue, even make threads asking to buff certain weapons, but then defend EW, saying something like "COTW is not a charity, they have to sell content" when it comes up in a discussion. 🤔

But like I said in another thread, I think the best bet is some sort of compromise where we get a flat increase in pen, but they also increase the HP value associated with each organ.
That way, we could at least reach the heart with something like the .223, yet the "gameplay difficulty" of a clean quick kill is not overly diminished in the eyes of EW.

[silk geyser]

All I'm asking for is penetration improvement, not damage increases. Weapon class penalties will stay the same ofc too. Why can't we double lung moose or bison with the .300/.338 for example? It's just bizarre

[umbral rain]

The game is very arcadey to start with, but changing the difficulty by making the weapons borderline useless is stupid way to do it

[kind wigeon]

Yeah I fully agree, but I think the developers have a tunnel vision view of reality where they have to provide a greater 'challenge' to the player. As if their only means to achieve this is by drastically reducing the pen on all most calibers. 😵‍💫
So that's why I'm suggesting they can lower the damage output and give us more pen if the darn'd difficulty is so important.

[kind wigeon]

ikr!

[umbral rain]

If they're so worried about challenging the player then they should add a mode that cuts spawns and makes animals more wary

You want a challenge? Choose sim mode. You want to relax? turn it off

[silk geyser]

I think it's fine leaving damage as is with many weapons being able to double lung appropriate animals. The big guns on big animals need improving as I said, but also smaller calibres on larger animals should still be able to double lung with polymers. It'll still do less damage than larger calibres

[kind wigeon]

I'll be honest guys, I don't think they will change this.
These people are dead set in their ways.
And then they issue surveys about what customization skins people want next. Damn. Feels like it's turning into Call Of Duty. 😑

[umbral rain]

Honestly it wouldn't hurt for the Devs to contact something like SCI or Dallas Safari Club, get advice from men and women who legitimately hunt and see how rifles work on animals. As it is they seem to know nothing and make up waht they want

[silk geyser]

Don't be like that, they might. They read these posts

[kind wigeon]

Are we sure they read these? That user who posts for EW is rumored to be a bot 🤔

[umbral rain]

we've been asking for literal years and nothing has changed

[light hazel]

That bot had replied to me on one of my posts so It might be real

[umbral rain]

I've got a few replies and none of them ever seemed like something a legit human would say

[kind wigeon]

Trap the bot next time. Ask them what is 1 / ( i - sqrt(-1) ) =

[umbral rain]

Think the only time they couldn't ignore it is if chat spammed it during their streams

[kind wigeon]

nah see you'll get nowhere with that.
Lyra even asked jaxy on stream to do something about the .223 and 6.5 but it leads nowhere.
I don't think he even has the power to influence what goes on upstream in Sweden.

[umbral rain]

Then what? We convince everyone to stop playing?

[kind wigeon]

EW is already working on that it seems 😆

[silk geyser]

Bump

[dark furnace]

game balance or not, is should be fun right? it's not fun if you can trust a pistol to kill something faster than a rifle. i should not be forced to take a 454 since the rifles are incapable of kills fast (unless the animal is at the bottom of it's classes or something dumb like that) minus a brain/heart shot. i should be able to take any rifle/pistol/bow i want a hunt without fear of the caliber not killing what i'm aiming at

[silk geyser]

Yes, it's bizarre that handgun ammo has crazy penetration but rifle ammo doesn't

[kind wigeon]

So there's this one person who defends the 'game balance' argument. Several people have tried to reply to that but gotten zero response.

I'm honestly a bit disappointed because I want to hear what this person has to say, unless its a pure troll comment?

[dark furnace]

i don't see how making rifles redundant is balanced. probably a troll comment

the only way i see them balancing rifles is by making levers of all the pistol calibers so they do their realistic damage

[kind wigeon]

tbh that just sounds like Pistol with extra steps, and doesn't fix the issue with redundant base-game rifles like the .223

The new lever action .44 is a good example of this, because it gives people the performance they want/expect, if you pay for extra content. It's pretty obvious at this point that there is a driving force to sell more dlc content by providing more powerful equipment. Is this the way we want it? Not in my opinion, but people keep buying it.

[dark furnace]

it was the main reason i bought the dlc initially was the gun. but i still just default to my 2 pistol class as the versatility is simply unmatched. if they made the rifles in base game match the pistols then i would mix and match for the fun of it. but as it sits there is no point of using rifles til something is done about their lack of power

[kind wigeon]

They won't fix it because the current marketing strategy is working. 🤷‍♂️

[dark furnace]

yeah fair enough haha

[silk geyser]

Welcome to capitalism lol

[kind wigeon]

I was about to suggest, in the name of capitalism, that they shouldn't put their game on game-pass to milk it for DLC money. But maybe it's a legit strategy to get more players into the community. Seeing some new faces on xbox 🤔

[silk geyser]

It's just a tool to expose the game to more players

[dark furnace]

it already was on game pass earlier this year

[kind wigeon]

yeah been for a looong time.

[dark furnace]

i thought they took it off, mb

[kind wigeon]

idk if they did that, you might be right 🙂

[silk geyser]

Idk, owned the game since 2018 myself

[dark furnace]

i'm a ps player mainly so game pass doesn't fully affect me, and i've owned the game since 2020

[umbral rain]

So i have a PS and an XBOS, it's on game pass but i have the game and all the dlcs on my PS account

[umbral rain]

bump. i got irritated with low pen RIFLES and a .44 pistol cartridge that handles bison better than the .45-70 (which nearly made bison extinct)

[silk geyser]

This new rifle has made it glaringly obvious the rifle penetration needs improving

[limber summit]

There is no reason the .338 should have that bad of pen.

[silk geyser]

Bump, .338 pen on moose stinks

[umbral rain]

Bumped, for being a desperately needed change

[weak nymph]

bump

[silk geyser]

🤙

[frigid flume]

Bump

[bold dagger]

its a bit of a joke you can pass thru with a bow and 700g arrows but struggle with a 7mm getting double lung within 150m

[silk geyser]

A .338 heartshot on a bear got stopped by the leg bone 🧐

[silk geyser]

.

[frigid flume]

bump

[dark furnace]

bumped again. still an issue

[silk geyser]

.

[umbral rain]

Still a problem

[silk geyser]

^

[silk geyser]

I think all rifle ammo in game needs a 15% increase in pen and 10% to expansion if its valid for animal class. If invalid class the 15% decrease in pen and 10% expansion and 50% reduction in money earned

Exception no changes to pistol rounds the 454 and 44 hardcast bullets too op already

Those using 300 to grind red dear can continue but they might be enticed back to 4-8 class if the qautering shots have more consistent results

[limber summit]

The .44 and .454 is fairly accurate in reality.

[silk geyser]

Still a problem, needs an overhaul

[silk geyser]

@sly mist

[silk geyser]

.

[umbral rain]

More annoying now with the Gandhare rifle having better penetration than the 7mm despite being 4-8

[weak nymph]

It also has better stats than the 300🤦

[dark furnace]

it's to offset the irons tho y'all realize right? if you could put a scope on it, it would have the same stats as every other 4-8

[weak nymph]

No. It is single shot even if you could fit a scope it would be better than all other 4-8

[dark furnace]

the muskets aren't

[weak nymph]

Because muskets are weaker than most big game rifles.

[dark furnace]

but it's still a single shot rifle. by that logic, they should be better than everything else right? the new gun is strong due to poor balance in logic. like pistols. you offset "poor range" for the best guns to hunt with in the game period

[weak nymph]

Except that the 577-450 round is very big cartridge. Bullets wheigh the same as 45-70 bullets. Just with weaker powder due to it being black powder

[umbral rain]

You realize nothing in this game works logically right? The .338 should be much stronger than the. 300. No one is using a "competition" 338 bolt action, it weighs too much and it'd be so long it'd be murder to use in a blind or treestand. The .45-70 pistol supposedly brought ammo changes but it doesn't apply to the rifle that came with the base game. It's all catered toward dlc, but instead of making the dlc interesting options to add to your game they make it the meta and nerf everything before it

[dark furnace]

gotta get that $, every other company does it

[silk geyser]

Their 338 is based on win mag not lapua, that's why the difference is marginal

[umbral rain]

No, it's based on Lapua, they confirmed it a couple times already.

I own a .300 WM and believe me, there's a big difference between it and .338 WM . I tried both before buying my rifle and the .300 had much less recoil

[silk geyser]

Where and when did they confirm this? Others and I had a big discussion about this and we decided it had to be 338 WM and certainly not lapua. Lapua is a beast

[dark furnace]

it's literally called a 338 mag, so even i am confused lol

[umbral rain]

When the Tsurugi came out, and when they confirmed the .338 break action was modeled after a competition Lapua

I looked it up. I thought it was win mag too and finding out it was a real thing made me so unhappy

[silk geyser]

The performance doesn't match lapua, at all

[umbral rain]

Yes, we have had this conversation before

(it's literally an anti-vehicle round fir the military in case someone didn't know)

[silk geyser]

I'll keep considering it win mag cause it's trash in game

[dark furnace]

as is every rifle lol

[umbral rain]

Yeah, pretty much nothing but the .243 and .470 work the way they should. Their whole system is a broken mess that they refuse to fix because it sells dlc

[dark furnace]

i am surprised they haven't made a 243 ar yet lol

[umbral rain]

Honestly it's not even a win mag, but more like .338 Federal. Which is just a .308 stretched out to use .338 bullets

[umbral rain]

Honestly, same, but I figure it hasn't been done because it's the starter rifle and would take too much work to mess up. I used to hunt black bears with it when I started the game lol

[dark furnace]

damn, it worked on those? lol

[umbral rain]

Yeah, and really well too. It could double lung them at like 200m and I had fun crawling in close and heart shooting them

[silk geyser]

Not really. That'd be even worse