More Animals to the savanna

[pine scarab]

Giraffe
Elephant
Ostrich
Zebra
Antelope
(Chimpanzee?)

Giraffe- Class 9
Elephant - Class 9 (Potential GO?)
Ostrich - Class 4-5)
Zebra - Class 6
Antelope - Class 6
Chimpanze - Class 3-4

[kind scarab]

I do not believe it is legal to hunt chimps.You’ll have to be more specific on what you mean by antelope,Zebra Could be fun but they may be to close to horses for ew to risk it

[half grail]

If the bring in a elephant there is so so many things they have to do a rework on. I'm not trying to shoot you down but it's just the truth yk

[neon shadow]

All elephants are endangered, will not be added

[gusty temple]

No, wrong
Orangutan don’t live anywhere in Africa

[kind scarab]

Closest we can get to Chimpanzee is vervet monkey that would be Class 2 and only be on the ground

[half grail]

Sorry wrong animal but elephants are hunted in Africa upon request but I just don't see them getting added because of how big they are. They'll have to add a whole new ammo class just for them. The minimum caliber that can kill one is a .375 H&H

[pine scarab]

They can add Hippos?

[gusty temple]

Baboons are closer in terms of how willing they are to fight their predators instead of fleeing (though that is still a far cry from how infamously violent chimpanzees are)

[kind scarab]

They could but we would need a far bigger caliber .375 is the minimum for A LOT of animals in Africa

[pine scarab]

I see

[idle sonnet]

Or baboons get hunted I'm pretty sure

[kind scarab]

Yes they can but op suggested a smaller monkey,Baboon could totally fit

[idle sonnet]

I think baboons would be fun

[gusty temple]

Chacma Baboon in Southern Africa

Yellow Baboons in Mozambique, Zambia & Tanzania

Olive Baboon from Ethiopia to West Africa

Even the Hamadryas and Geleda Baboons can be hunted in Ethiopia (https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1100444674558271571)

[tidal radish]

tbh i'd rather have a big antelope species than an elephant

[idle sonnet]

I'd prefer hippos of Nile crocs over an elephant

[tidal radish]

Greater Kudu would be nice to have ingame

[gusty temple]

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1070108417819156631 - many big antelope

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1070109503447646350

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1099469747323670729

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1089731563308204153

[tidal radish]

also, Chimps don't live in Savannas. They're also protected

[copper crystal]

Dont forget. Dik dik. That's the biggest antelope

[pearl thistle]

never stopped them from adding the musk deer or the lion...

and don't forget the polar bears in classic.

[gusty temple]

All 3 of those are listed as Vulnerable on the ICUN Redlist, not Endangered

[gusty temple]

And before anyone mentions European Bison

[pearl thistle]

either way, its not something that should be a point of contention for the community in my opinion. its just a game at the end of the day. a better argument is how the animals would fit into the gameplay as a whole. As for elephants I believe that they would be too big to implement into the game (same for giraffe)... they just wouldn't fit in the trophy lodges.

[gusty temple]

And that is the argument that should be used to explain why elephants would not work in the game

[neon shadow]

No matter the arguments, the Studio's policy is not to add animals with the Endangered category

[stark elbow]

please, remember this is a GAME ^^

[neon shadow]

The developers have a policy not to add species categorized as Endangered, nor to add maps of countries or areas where hunting is illegal, this has been the case since before the game was released.
Although it is a game, it is about giving a message that Hunting is not a problem but a solution and a necessity, that it can coexist in the same way with the natural environment, the missions and history of each map reflect this.
Adding species at risk of disappearing from nature by hunting ruins the message and the purpose of so many years of development.

[stark elbow]

Yes I do understand, I did not understand the message sorry

[pearl thistle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_hog_deer
looks like this is no longer the case... hog deer are on emerald coast's species list and they are endangered irl.

[kind scarab]

In their home range…

[neon shadow]

I think you are not understanding the meaning of the Endangered category

[pearl thistle]

I know they are endangered in their home range. and I know they are populous in australia. just saying its a thing now. I know there are no native deer to australia.

[kind scarab]

There is not one deer species native to Australia

[neon shadow]

The category means: at risk of disappearing from its natural environment, its natural environment is its habitat/biome in its country/region of origin.
The international legislation that categorizes them is issued to the member countries with the category of international treaty.

[pearl thistle]

I know, I just thought I'd share that emerald coast is cutting it close.
(to be fair, the entire argument of no endangered animals in hunting games is silly to me, its just pixels)

[kind scarab]

Not really…

[pearl thistle]

either way, I thought this was interesting and decided to share. peace.

[gusty temple]

I figured I should share the fact that the White Rhinoceros (and more specifically the Southern White Rhino) is actually considered Near Threatened ( which is a step above Lion (of course the hunting of both species is controversial)

https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/39317/45814320

Now of course there is the gameplay aspect
• They wouldn’t work on Vurhonga due to the story of that reserve ||(finding the last rhino on the reserve dead and de-horned, in that order)||
• the legal countries for rhino hunting are Namibia and South Africa, and the legal targets are generally older bulls that are past breeding age and in a number of cases, are killing younger bulls
• Bouncing off that point, they would have to make it so female rhinos can’t be shot (invalid target basically) and behave in a way that cause them to avoid people
• The Bulls would have to be done in a way that encourages you to target the older ones

In summary, even though the Southern White Rhinoceros is considered only Near-Threatened, the gameplay aspect is not worth it in my opinion and the Hippopotamus would not only be easier, it would be more fun to hunt

[mossy yew]

Hippos would be awesome. They're scary bastards.

[idle sonnet]

I'm down for the hippos and they are known man killers

[pine scarab]

Ye hippos would be nice

[crude blade]

Hippos kill more people in africa then all other animals combined

Very terrorial animals

[crude blade]

I mean i want to feel like a hunter not an ivory/horn poacher ya know. Lions are at the threshold for me.

[crude blade]

The only native Australian animals i believe we're hunting there are kangaroos and saltwater crocodiles. They eat kangaroos in Australia so that tells you something about their population status. Saltwater crocs are at least concern status And the others are invasive species introduced into Australia the same way all species in new zealands map were.

European Rabbits and Red foxes are very likely to be added to that map since they're a problematic invasive species too

[bitter crown]

Hey @pine scarab ! Thank you for letting us know about the ideas on animals to add to the Savanna. We are constantly working on new content and are open to ideas! I will pass your suggestions on more sets of thematic clothing to the rest of our team for consideration. If you have any other ideas on what you'd like to see in the game, please feel free to share them with us!

[grim spoke]

I dont understand the link between hunting an extinguish animal and a game.. Not hunting elephants in game wont solve the problem.. Not everyone playing the game lives in africa, heck im not even a IRL hunter cuz I dont like to hurt animals. Thats why im hunting in a video game! I play call of duty and im not shooting people IRL.. Let us have fun and get some adrenaline rush to kill some real big game animals ! I want to see 700 nitros express, 4 bores, the mighty T-Rex gun ! I want to see elephants, rhinos, hyppos, zebras, girafe, leopards, tigers ! Make a lvl 10 group of animal, make a new lodge ! Do the informations update in the lodge that people request by the same occasion !

[bitter crown]

So what’s your argument 😭? They literally are not endangered where we are hunting them

[pearl thistle]

no argument really, the conversation ended a few days ago

[bitter crown]

Mk sorry ❤️

[grim spoke]

Still want elephants in game !

[shut trail]

European bison or "wisent" is way more endangered than all elephants all together. Heck that thing was extinct in the wild for a good amount of time. Still present and huntable in the game and people still think elephants shouldn't be added cuz "too endangered"

[neon shadow]

The "Endangered" category is a legal terminology given to animals that are beginning to be included in the international treaty on Trade in Wild Fauna and Flora Species, which obliges member countries to establish federal laws to prevent their disappearance in nature. Once within that category, they cease to be game animals and begin to be trade objects regulated by customs laws with harvest "tickets" with annual limits.
Hunting permits or licenses are not issued to hunt animals with this category, a CITES ticket is issued for their body, whether dead or alive..
The European Bison does not have this category, partly because the reason for the population reduction is not based on the hunting and trade of its parts but on the disappearance of its natural environment.

[shut trail]

Wisent was hunted to extinction by european kings

[shut trail]

European bison is literally the symbol of endangered species here in Russia.

[neon shadow]

It was, it is no longer, in fact recently the Vulnerable category was also removed and now it only has Near Threatened**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_bison

[shut trail]

It was endangered enough when CoTW released

The lion is also endangered. Btw wisent population is 2000+ individuals and African bush elephant population is 400 000 individuals

[shut trail]

Banteng

As well as hog deer, javan rusa deer, indian sambar

Wild reindeer is also vulnerable

[shut trail]

White rhino is also NT

Huh even African bush elephant was vulnerable when cotw and vurhonga released. Was changed to Endangered in 2021 or 2022. So it's not really an argument not to add elephants, rhinos, hippos and other iconic African mammals

[neon shadow]

I see that you still don't understand what the "Endangered" category means, it means "At risk of disappearing from their natural habitat", hog deer, javan rusa deer, indian sambar, banteng in Australia are not in their natural environment, the "Endangered" categories apply to countries where animals are native only and the laws only apply within its borders, in Australia they are invaders and dangerous species for native ecosystems, therefore they are legislated as invasive species and included within special hunting and removal programs within the territory.

The decision not to include species with the "Endangered" category is a studio policy since the launch of the game, in the recent interview that the developers published, they said that they continue with their message of conservation, so I don't think they will change this policy for now.

[shut trail]

I mentioned not only the introduced species. Wild reindeer, lions are nothing more endangered than white rhino for example. Bush elephants were vulnerable with increasing population back on the Vurhonga release

[neon shadow]

It is that the Vulnerable category does not exceed them from being included as hunting species, they are still within the hunting laws and hunting permits are issued for them...
Rhinos and Elephants are different because their body parts (Ivory) are included in international trade agreements.
In fact, the current CITES tickets for elephants is for their tusks, for example, in Tanzania you can only extract 100 tusks a year, that is, kill 50 elephants to extract them.

They are also 2 species associated with "Thropy Hunting" (Paying huge sums of money to kill an animal), a hunting methodology with which the developers have shown disagreement with since before the game was released.

Currently I know that they can hunt the hornless rhinos from the high fence farms since they sell them to reserves to be hunted, but they are within that category of "Thropy Hunting" because it is a coveted trophy.
However, there are no licenses to hunt rhino, you cannot apply for a state/local hunting permit to kill any, and there are no public lands where you can hunt them.

[shut trail]

There are also hippos

[shut trail]

For me hunting elephant in the game means not hunting it irl=saving it. Idk about others

[neon shadow]

They could enter the game without problem, I guess he took a buffalo as a model since they are only a little bigger xD

[shut trail]

Still would love to see something mythical like for example a small herd of mammoths on Medved xd

And still confused with european bison. Yes, it might be not "endangered" (population is still small, way smaller than each one of three elephant species), and is also within the category of trophy hunting which devs seems to disagree with

[neon shadow]

It is due to the historical amount of their populations, the population of Elephants was reduced by more than 95% and disappeared from their territories more or less in that proportion, that of the Bisons was smaller so it "recovered" faster to change of categories..
To change category it should increase to a couple of million 😵‍💫

[mossy yew]

Trophy hunting is the sole reason the American bison is alive today. They foregoed smaller, less-prime male buffalo and only shot the best looking (older) males. Meat was eaten and donated, as it is now, and then the trophy was kept. It is completely and incorrectly maligned, and also conflated with "canned hunts" (ethically wrong) incorrectly.

"Buck management" as it stands today (shooting older, typically better looking males) is "trophy hunting". This doesn't mean the meat just gets thrown into a river. It's just management. Of course older bucks that look less good due to age are shot too, but it's exactly what it is. Shooting younger bucks is frequently frowned upon for a reason, unless in populations where it's needed, vs shooting everything you see. And part of the reason the bison in America was hunted nearly to extinction was just city people who wanted the fur coat, not hunters just pursuing them endlessly for their meat/trophy horns.
MORE: Hunts to pursue older bull elephants opens up room genetically for younger bulls, and that money is put directly back into conservation in almost all circumstances. Unless the area has embezzling/misallocated funds. The misunderstanding of "trophy hunting" is tragic and leads to people having a skewed understanding of hunting and what it's done for conservation.

[gusty temple]

Their is a lot more to the mass hunting of Bison in North America then “city people who wanted the fur coat”

There were several reasons they hunted the bison
• Leather for international markets
• Sport (officers at some forts literally has competitions)
• Pressuring Indigenous Tribes to move onto the Reservations for good
• Feeding Railway workers
There were more reasons then that I am sure

At this point, EW has made their mind up on Elephants (unfortunately) and all we can really do is wait for Ultimate Hunting to release someday

[neon shadow]

No matter where you look at it, "Thropy hunting" is not hunting, it is paying a lot of money for an animal served on a platter that you can stuff and say "Oh look at this huge animal I shot"...

In Africa you do not spend 2 or 10 days in the thicket of the jungle or the bushes, you do not live with nature camping and searching with your binoculars or looking for tracks to find the area of the animals, you do not wait hours or stalk endlessly minutes to an animal to have the perfect shot to kill the animal cleanly and without suffering, You pay for a safari guide to show you where an animal is and take you to it, an animal used to seeing humans or an animal that has been attracted by a dead animal bait, an animal that has been studied and of which the hunting guides know its whereabouts, there is no sport, there is no difficulty, there is no skill, you pay to go to the place where they tell you that the animal and you shoot it at the closest possible distance to be able to take a trophy home after having invested money, it is an insured hunt..

It does not matter what benefits are sought in this situation, it is not hunting, u buy a thropy...

[half grail]

I'm going to south Africa and we have to go out and actually hunt. It may be a few days before you find your animal. We will do scouting and we are hunting for over a week. The animals aren't baited and they aren't used to seeing humans either. It is actually difficult, I've talked to people who've gone before. And the hunt is for sure not insured. Please get your information right before you go on a rant.

[neon shadow]

And you can hunt Elephants that way?

[gusty temple]

Elephants are not as easy to hunt as they would seem based on what I have read

[half grail]

Yes, cape, rhino, kudu, fallow, sprinbuck, gemsbuck, it's all wild

[half grail]

Yes it may be fenced but it's 25000+ acres so it's not a guaranteed hunt.

To put into perspective 25000 acres is 39 square miles

[gusty temple]

Would guaranteed opportunity be the more correct term then (I got that term from watching Blood Origins)

[half grail]

Not even guaranteed at an opportunity, you never know what you'll see out there

[gusty temple]

Fair enough

[half grail]

You'll see animals that you didn't even pay to hunt just free roaming, all over.

[gusty temple]

I’ve always understood hunting in Africa, especially for more dangerous animals to be the complete opposite of a “walk in a park”

[half grail]

And you my friend, are completely correct

[gusty temple]

Well I have been fortunate enough to speak with a former professional hunter that used to live in Tanzania back in the old days
He was a tour guide at a museum in my home town that has a section dedicated to a bunch of animals donated by a local big game hunter

40% the collection was Canadian Animals
The other 40% was African game
The rest was a variety of Mountain game from Asia and some other stuff

[neon shadow]

Can you hunt Elephants without a CITES quota? Oh God
But are you from Africa?

[half grail]

My plan is to go waterfowl hunting and it's illegal to bait those. Ducks and geese are for sure not used to seeing humans (except if they are farm/park ducks, which they arent) so that isn't right to use the term "guaranteed".

[gusty temple]

I imagine you would still need one if you plan to import the tusk back home

There are Tuskless Elephant hunts in some parts of Africa that to my understanding are non-importable. In other words everything goes to the local communities

[half grail]

I'm not from Africa but my family and I are good friends with the people taking us and we know and talked to people who've gone before.

I'm looking into the CITES thing and I'd think you'd need one to hunt them, wouldn't it be the same for hunting a whitetail back in the US? Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never herd of CITES before

[half grail]

That's really sick👍
My plan is to be a professional hunter and maybe at some point a taxidermist and guide

[gusty temple]

Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora is the long version of CITES

A lot of game species are Appendix 2 and to name a few
• American Black Bear
• American Alligator
• Bighorn Sheep
• African Elephant from Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe

[half grail]

All of our meat will go to charity and local communities if that what you mean

[neon shadow]

All or most extant animals are listed under CITES if they were ever in the Near Threatened category, the international transport treatment of parts is different for hunting species, the fact that an animal part is dealt in informal markets agra controls and requires special permits or compliance with annual quotas

[half grail]

Ohh okay. Well than yeah you'd need a quota, they give them our for bighorn so that would be the same

[neon shadow]

The aggravating circumstance of the Elephants and Rhinos is the Ivory, the legal market is governed by quotas, therefore the extraction is regulated by the CITES system

[half grail]

So is drawing tags for bighorn is pretty much our quota then?

[gusty temple]

Basically, a portion of the tags are set aside for outfitters

I don’t need a CITES permit to go hunt Black Bear in my province (I need everything else)
A hunter from Europe would

[half grail]

Ohh okay

[neon shadow]

As long as you are a resident and have a government hunting permit you can hunt an animal, as long as it is categorized as "game specie" within the federal system without an "endangered" category, however I am not sure about the treatment given to the parts of your body that go through international customs, this varies from species to species and from the country you enter

[half grail]

That means elephants have to have a quota, since I'm from the states

[neon shadow]

For example, these are the allowable international transport quotas for the Republic of Tanzania with respect to animals
https://cites.org/eng/resources/quotas/export_quotas?field_country_target_id=197&field_species_target_id=&field_specimens_target_id=&field_date_value[min]=2022-01-01&field_date_value[max]=2022-12-31
*Tusks as part of hunting trophies from 50 elephants *

Animals outside of that list are considered "game animals" and are only regulated by feral hunting permits

[half grail]

I didnt see elephants on south Africa's

[neon shadow]

The problem with animals with the "endangered" category is that limitation of international compliance with trade quotas, the fact that they are not treated as game animals but as "objects from which trade materials are extracted".
Animals in these categories are excluded from normal hunting lists, there is no freedom to hunt them nor do federal hunting licenses include them, there are many legal loopholes and gray areas regarding them, it is understandable that developers want to avoid them

It is difficult to implement a system in which there are no complaints and satisfies all aspects of hunting

[half grail]

Gotcha

[mossy yew]

the meat is donated to tribes. They use the entire animal except for the trophy portion.

[main niche]

A lot of places make exceptions for the 9.3x62mm Mauser, Zimbabwe's minimum for large/dangerous game is 9.2mm. Hundred plus year reputation, it basically exists as the .30-06 of Africa and the .375 is equivalent to the .300

[mossy yew]

Again, it's not like they rip off the tusks and let the animal go to waste (wanton waste of wildlife). The money and meat go right back into the local community.

[main niche]

Aside from that I don't care about elephants, would be a cool ambient sound to hear, but i don't care to hunt them. That said, Impala, eland, Greater Kudu, Nyala, Sable, blesbok, bontebok, any of the hartebeests, and hippos would make me excited to go to any African map

[mossy yew]

It's the principle of the argument against it that frustrates me, + the misinformation and misunderstandings surrounding it. Animals I don't want to shoot ingame? I simply don't shoot them. Ez pz.

[main niche]

Propaganda. Anti-poaching propaganda designed to drum up support for more funding/volunteers/rangers makes everyone think elephants are only killed by poachers who chop out the tusks and run away. the Legal hunting that provides jobs and literal TONS of meat to to local villages aside from providing income for the villagers is completely ignored or just assumed to be no different from poaching

[mossy yew]

^ EXACTLY.

Poachers deserve many things unmentionable.
Safaris giving people jobs, funding villages, sourcing their food? Eliminating old, isolated problem bulls? Good for them!

Could I bring myself to shoot an elephant irl? Probably not. It's just not my groove and I'm a pretty emotional person. But to say it's the same as poaching regardless of context is silly.

[gusty temple]

My Central Asian reserve idea features another species that benefits from Trophy Hunting: Markhor

The locals will do what they can to prevent poaching and a large portion of the funds go to local communities in Pakistan and Tajikistan

https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1119449859297132564

[kind scarab]

“For A lot of animals in Africa ” not all,not none,some

[mossy yew]

These guys are cute. Pretty nuts horns too.

[gusty temple]

Especially those that used to be British Colonies if I recall correctly

[main niche]

jurisdictions, not specific animals, it's specifically allowed in several places despite the caliber restriction which is not tied to any animal in particular

[gusty temple]

Some places also do the energy minimums

Meaning that while the 375 or 9.3x62 would be standard, if you got the right bullets loads the 45-70 can be sufficient (but not always)

[main niche]

entirely true

[mossy yew]

One more thing; If it were so easy to basically guarantee an animal in the earlier described fashion, those parks would be a hell of a lot richer, lmfao. A lot of them break even to my understanding and keep going because of the species benefits outweighing the lack of profit, and continuing the dream, if it were.

[main niche]

Steenbuck, basically a class two herbivore slightly smaller than a musk deer

[mossy yew]

Is it bad I looked at it and my mouth started watering..?

[main niche]

No, literally a whole steenbuck could be roasted like a hog on the grill and ffs i would love to try that

[mossy yew]

That's what I was thinking of. You could probably scald it like a pig and get yummy crispy skin. But you'd truss it like a rotisserie chicken instead of stretched out like a hog. Stuff the inside with root vegetables.

The neck would probably make a kickass stew after roasting.

[main niche]

tiny ten are all incredible, smallest hoofed game in the world

Meet the dik-dik, not an insult, but another class 2

[mossy yew]

It's like a ruminant rabbit

[main niche]

that's more the blue duiker's realm

[mossy yew]

I guess rabbit vs flemish rabbit...

[main niche]

Africa is a treasure trove, and btw, these animals are actively poached for food but are so good at repopulating they're expanding territories anyway

[mossy yew]

That's good

[main niche]

Africa's home to some of the biggest and smallest game in the world, it needs more than two maps

[mossy yew]

Agreed. The geography varies so much too.

[copper crystal]

Small game map and a big game map

[dusky pivot]

Everyone is always quick to talk about all of the big game species that can be hunted in Africa, but there's a lot of interesting small game that you can hunt there too

Here is my Namibia reserve idea which features several of Africa's small game species.
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