Genetics and Herd Management.

[fervent lance]

To start this off, I’ve seen a lot of people taken aback by EW’s response to herd management. As such, some people are a bit upset that their side of the argument is being ignored. This suggestion is hopefully the solution to both people who dislike HM as it currently is and people who like it as it currently is.

Genetics. Similarly to Way of the Hunter, each zone has its own set of genetics. These genetics could be on a scale of 1-10, and the higher they are the better spawns you will tend to get. Genetics are dependant on each animal’s level, weight and truScore factors. Larger males with more even antlers or horns will have higher genetics than smaller, uneven males. As the genetics get better, the more likely you are to see large males from your respawns. Some zones might start out with small initial spawns, these ones you’d likely want to leave. Initial zones with larger males are the ones you’d want to target. Now, of course, this wouldn’t be required to spawn diamonds, as those would still have a chance of randomly spawning in zones, HM would simply increase the odds. This would allow both casual players and grinders to benefit from managing their zones.

Here’s where great ones factor in. As before, they still have a set chance of spawning regardless of the zone’s genetics. However, the higher the genetics of the herd, the more likely one is to spawn. A zone with a genetic score of 1 might have a 1 in 10,000 chance of spawning and a zone with a genetic score of 10 might have a 1 in 7500, or even 1 in 5000 chance of spawning.

This not only solves HM but also makes great ones more achievable for the casual player. I think this is the best outcome for both parties and takes into account the aspects they both like. I would really like to know what people think of this down below, as I don’t want our community to be divided any further.

The entire idea stemmed from the discussion that happened over at #1096093628365017160 message

[mystic glade]

Don't understand I enjoy the game the way it is at the moment don't see why Thay need to change anything from my point of view

[tacit karma]

I think its a great proposal. It adds the element of thinking before shooting as well because you need to decide what would be best to remove. Well said.

[fervent lance]

The current issue is that anyone who chooses not to grind or herd manage won’t be getting anywhere near the number of diamonds, rares, super rares and great ones as the people that choose to. This suggestion also tackles the issue of HM in general and makes it an intentional mechanic. It solves a few issues and let’s every single person, regardless of play style, get the same trophies with some effort

It almost feels like you’re being punished for not grinding. Makes some people feel like they aren’t as good as the people who get dozens of diamonds and rares per day

[tacit karma]

This is exactly it. I know it isn't technically competitive but when you're getting 0 trophies and others are getting 12 a day it just makes it seem like something is wrong. Added to that is people are getting 12...some of us just want 1

[indigo gulch]

I would like to consider, from another angle, within the limitations of the game engine and it's age - how would they implement the aging factor?

[fervent lance]

There would be no aging factor. This game entirely hinges around respawns, which is what the genetics focuses on. The better your genetics, the better the respawns. They only kick in should you choose to kill the animals within that zone. I didn’t want to completely alter the fundamental mechanics, just adjust them

[tacit karma]

Yeah like if i understand it correctly each animal would have their level as normal but also a genetic score. If you leave the ones that you think have a higher genetic score and shoot a smaller one then the respawn is influenced by the genetic scores you left alive giving it a better chance of a higher trophy. Is that fair @fervent lance?

[fervent lance]

That’s precisely it. The genetics of the animals in the herd affect the respawns

[scarlet marsh]

I’ll be honest, I’m unsure how likely it is that the devs would revamp the way the game works at this stage, but I would love this! Obviously it would need to be balanced correctly, but that can definitely be done with proper testing and planning

[foggy zenith]

Well. The people that hunt normally that find diamonds is the more ethical way to hunt. Because we are just having fun with maybe wanting a diamond. But the people that grind could possibly get 1-10 diamonds a day.

[tacit karma]

True you may end up with people just stacking GO's on their map 😂 . But if its balanced enough that shouldnt happen

[fervent lance]

Obviously the people who put in like 10 hours a day will find more diamonds than someone who only plays 1-2 hours a day. Nothing can be done about that. This simply gives those people that play 1-2 hours a day a chance to get the same level of trophies by allowing them to use the exact same method the grinders use

[scarlet marsh]

Frankly that shouldn’t even be possible lol. It runs completely contrary to the term “fabled” 😂 Its meant to be this ultra rare thing that you hear tales of and hope to encounter. Not something you’ve got 6 of on your map 🥲 Could add a check to not spawn a great one if one already exists on the map

[tight token]

Tell that to a high fence. 😎

[tacit karma]

Yeah its a levelling of the playing field where HM is intentional but also complex. You cant just shoot a level anymore. You have to evaluate whether or not it has good genetics based off its rack. Where it may be difficult to discern is predator species but im sure with some thought it would be doable

[scarlet marsh]

😂😂 if they start charging us $50,000 to kill the great ones, maybe we can actually do something with our money in the game

[tight token]

Yeah.. that money issue for real. I would spend all of it for a volume slider for my ATV.

[foggy zenith]

I'm poor. 💀. On my main account I have around 80,000

[scarlet marsh]

Bahahaha same here! I used to mute my game when I’d use it on stream

[tight token]

I still do. It’s way to loud. Enough about that though. Sorry didn’t want to take away from the conversation.

[tacit karma]

Are others allowed to contribute other ideas to solve the issue around how Herd Management currently works?

[fervent lance]

Absolutely, this is a discussion post after all

[maiden lion]

I don't see a problem with it. If you don't want to grind don't. Similar to real life. Everyone wants to kill the biggest buck but few put in the time and effort to do it. Doesn't mean someone that's not hard core hunter won't kill a giant but chance go up if you put I'm the time and effort.

[fervent lance]

That’s absolutely true, and it’s true of this suggestion too. If you put in the time and effort you’ll get many more diamonds and increase the genetic potential of the herd more than someone who can only put in an hour. This suggestion just aims to make it a little easier for casual players to get to the same point

[foggy zenith]

You can't grind in real life. You'd get in souch trouble

[tacit karma]

It isn't really about grinding per se. Its about only shooting specific animals to increase the odds of a trophy. I view it as a flaw in the game making it less than its best. If there is a way to take that mechanic and make it intentional and a part of the game thats something I'd like to see pursued.

[fervent lance]

I spoke to Jaxy and unfortunately this suggestion just isn’t possible due to the game engine’s limitations. Still fun to conceptualize and talk about it though

[tacit karma]

Did he read the letter?

[fervent lance]

Unsure, he didn’t mention anything about it

[mystic glade]

I was thinking that @fervent lance seems like a big ask

[foggy zenith]

Big ask?

[fervent lance]

It absolutely is yeah. It’s mostly just speculation at what could be done to mitigate the issue. Perhaps for whenever COTW 2 comes out it could be implemented

[tacit karma]

It would be cool to hear from the devs some parameters that are feasible for a solution. Give us the capabilities and see if we can come up with something that are within them

[fervent lance]

Unfortunately Jaxy said they really aren’t allowed to share much. Which is honestly I think the biggest issue, the fact that we know so little about how the game engine works so we don’t know how to work around it and can only speculate on what can and can’t be done

[tight token]

So is the main issue actually Herd Management? Or is it stacking? Because I see a lot of people use it as a blanket statement for grinding.

[fervent lance]

HM as in, actual HM. Not grinding in general. Really the main issue is the fact that grinding is pushed to be the only real way of acquiring trophies en masse

[mystic glade]

I see no isues just people who have diffent ways of hunting in this game

[tacit karma]

Specifically Herd Management. I guess if stacking influences spawns then it would be included as well. Grinding although i find it frustrating and monotonous to play that way, i doubt its going anywhere

[foggy zenith]

I could see this in a good way though. For people that offer "trophy" hunts. Like piebalds mammals, melanistic, Great ones, albinos, and so on.

[tight token]

So what is it that you find monotonous about it? Do you think with whitetail specifically that we should be able to just shoot everything and get great trophies? Like if all I do is shoot level ones all day, that should be effective?

[tacit karma]

No. I think that what you shoot or leave shouldn't influence spawns at all, unless its intentional like what Oligator has proposed here.

[fervent lance]

Monotonous perhaps in the sense that you go to the same zones and shoot the same respawn/s each time in hopes of a good respawn. My suggestion aims to make people actually think about what is and isn’t worth shooting. You can still acquire diamonds, rares and great ones without the use of it, but it would help if you decide to take it slower and more carefully

[foggy zenith]

So how does HM work? Especially for animals like red deer? How would this concept work?

[fervent lance]

I provided a detailed explanation of how it would work in the original post, but to clarify
The genetics of the animals within a zone influence the respawns of animals within the zone. Say you have a big, even level 8 stag and a small uneven lvl 4 stag. That lvl 4 stag likely has pretty shit genetics, so you wouldn’t want it in the herd if you choose to shoot an animal in it. You shoot the lvl 4 to prevent its genetics from affecting the respawn’s genetics. The level 8 would then be the only influence and your respawn would most likely come back bigger

[tight token]

So shooting level 1s only should get you a great one. Shooting this way will still get you rares. Is it at a slower rate because you are playing slower? Sure! But that’s your choice.

[foggy zenith]

Oh okay. So like Woth?

[tacit karma]

I dont think i understand what youre saying. The main benefit I see in what was proposed is that you have to think about what you shoot. There could be an uneven 4 contributing bad genetics to a herd that youd take out over a more even 3 with better genetics

[fervent lance]

Kinda, just without the aging mechanic

[foggy zenith]

Okay. So in short leave the big ones and shoot the uneven small ones. Got it.

[scarlet marsh]

I’m not sure getting great ones is the concern anyway. The original thing that led us here was how diamonds are no longer special. This idea that Oli suggested (tho apparently not feasible) would have needed to be implemented with a balancing act to avoid diamonds being taken by the hundreds. That’s what appeals to me about it. Diamonds are still special. Great ones are still super special. Win win for everyone. It just isn’t gonna happen tho lol

[fervent lance]

Unfortunately yeah, due to the game engine’s age + the limitations it has this idea sadly can’t be implemented

[obsidian oxide]

for all we know COTW 2.0 is already in the works and they are planning on changing the way trophies are generated ... Hence they dont want to take the time to re-engineer a 6 year old game

[scarlet marsh]

If they fall in line with how long they let Classic go till they developed COTW, they would be working on it by now so 👀 maybe!!

[foggy zenith]

I hope quite a few things are going to be improved.

[foggy zenith]

Honestly I kind of think classic is better than Cotw. It's a lot more laid back plus you can't grind. Also there is no hunting pressure. That can be caused.

[sweet plume]

I like the idea, if you could initially assign a Random Genetic Level to each District and that this could somehow be increased then it would help to use all the areas on the map..
For example: Once we reach 100/100 we can activate the "Warden Help" that will activate a weekly Hunt Club Mission so that by completing the series of missions we can finally obtain a random GO Spawn within that District..
Something like: "Warden: hey it seems you've handled that Reserve District very well, so much so that I've seen a Fable hanging around there, go hunt it..."

It would only be a weekly mission so you could not abuse it to get all the GO you want and it would only activate after completing 100/100 however that score is completed..

In this way, the Grinder can continue with their way of playing, casual players can take it as an event to complete, the players who travel the map could hunt as long as they complete the score of a district they would activate it and finally the players who who like to complete missions would have an objective and a good reward. Everyone happy

[fervent lance]

Classic has completely fresh populations each time you go on a map, thus kinda removing the whole grinding aspect. Just gotta get lucky in the right place at the right time

[scarlet marsh]

Classic is the greatest pure hunting game ever made. But it’s lack of accessibility, age, and pace will never let it be more popular 🥲

[fervent lance]

Genetics within a district is actually a really good idea. That way you’d have to manage several zones and actually be on top of things constantly if you want those really good respawns

[foggy zenith]

How did you do that genetic level? Or did you just edit that in there?

[sweet plume]

Paint edit xD

[tight token]

There in lies a problem though. People don’t want to constantly be on top of it. You have to think of very casual players also.

[foggy zenith]

Oh okay. I was thinking you must have access to some future tech.

[sweet plume]

If the zone's genetic score could be increased and not decreased over time that would be great for casual players.

[foggy zenith]

For the age. Classics has some of the best graphics. Even better than Cotw at that. Plus the render is farther I think. Or it seems farther.

[tacit karma]

But then its like "you gotta work for it". As it is Herd Management produces so many trophies that as Oli said higher up it can seem like youre punished for not using it

[scarlet marsh]

Could argue the exact same thing about HM tho, right? Because the way he laid it out, again in an entirely wishful, hypothetical situation, there’s still a random chance of getting diamonds and great ones in the “slow way” of playing. Aka not being super conscious of your herds. But the rate of “trophies” in the form of diamonds could be reduced to prevent “devaluing”

[fervent lance]

I phrased that statement wrong. I moreso meant that consistently managing your herds would lead to greater results, not necessarily more results than casual players. Spending more time on the game will yield you more trophies regardless, the casual side will still gain those trophies. Choose whatever pace you want, you’ll still get rewarded for managing those herds

[obsidian oxide]

Yes HM works a little too well ..... If it only slightly increased the dime spawn it wouldnt really be an issue

[scarlet marsh]

That’s literally all I want 😭

[fervent lance]

In WOTH, do rares require a certain genetic yield in a herd to spawn? Not planning on doing anything similar with this post, just curious

[little linden]

Nope

[mystic glade]

I'm just interested and meen no harm in asking what has changed since u got the game. Like could u herd manage if you wish or no ?

[scarlet marsh]

Melanistics are based on high fitness, albinos are entirely random

[fervent lance]

Ahh okay gotcha

[obsidian oxide]

if its going to be figured out in the short term then it will have to be someone that fully knows the inner workings of the spawn system. Some dev who knows why HM works so well at producing trophies.... There may be a tweak that can be made to slow down the dime spawn rate when HM is being used .... Otherwise leave everything else the same ... This seems to me to be the quick and dirty solution .... It's called a band aid

[little linden]

Oh really? I didn't know that, haven't played in a while tho. That's interesting

[tacit karma]

I am not sure if the potential always existed. But at the beginning it wasn't really discovered or promoted like it is now.

[sweet plume]

I think we should forget about changing the spawn system, at this point in the game's development I think it's impossible since it's the base of the game, we should focus on adding a new accessory mode so that all parties can get their trophies, I don't see problem with the spawning of diamonds but with the one of GOs that is the most wanted objective and that everyone wants to have

[fervent lance]

My more attainable suggestion for GO spawns is having them be able to randomly spawn on the map whenever, regardless of if respawns are happening or not. Same exact spawn rate and everything, but it can appear whenever. To balance this, there’s a limit of 1 GO per species per map

[sweet plume]

Bump