Buckshot Buff

[pliant terrace]

I’m sure everyone who’s used buckshot in any of the shotguns would agree with me that it’s severely underpowered in game. In the video below you can see how 12 gauge buckshot not only shot through a car door, but also blew out the other side of the car itself.
In game, 12 gauge buckshot just barely penetrates into the lungs on a whitetail. My proposition is to make buckshot on every shotgun far more powerful. This would give it its own niche, as up close it outclasses slugs of the same gauge and can take down an animal far faster than them, but it just requires you to get close.

https://youtu.be/gB3eES4Fth4

In this video (from Scarecrow), you can see just how atrociously bad the penetration is on buckshot. That whitetail should’ve dropped immediately. We shouldn’t have any “obsolete” or “useless” or “underpowered” rounds in the game. They should all be just as useful for their class range as any other round

[nimble vessel]

This is the problem with shotguns in almost any game. IRL they're op, so you cant really do them that strong because it would 1shot basically any animal. However it would be nice if it got a small buff so it doesnt seem like they shoot paper

[drowsy cliff]

I've always found it funny that both the 10GA Buckshot and 20GA Buckshot are 5 Penetration and 0 Expansion when one is for class 4-7 and the other is for class 2-4. The same thing in different sizes for wildly different animals doesn't make a whole ton of sense. One of them should blow holes in animals while the other should just wound it a little.

[pliant terrace]

Thing is, this game doesn’t need to be meticulously balanced for PvP gameplay. You’re just shooting animals, nothing competitive. We should have plenty of viable options for shooting em, not just one or two

[versed dawn]

The irl effective range of the buckshot is a maximum of 30mts, the dispersion is also high at that distance without a choke, at what distance do you expect to shoot?
In the video he shoots at less than 10 meters, obviously it will go through metal, At that distance in the game it is also an insta kill, it doesn't even reach more than one lung because the animal falls.
In the scarecrow video it is at more than 30 meters and penetrates little because it is above the effective distance, which is 25 meters.

Not all weapons need to be OP...

[versed dawn]

Male insta kill at 15mts, damage similar to irl

[pliant terrace]

I’m not asking for it to be made overpowered, where in the hell did you get that from? I’m asking for it to be made viable and also be able to compete with other weapons that can drop the same animals at distances 10x as far. Increasing the buckshot effective range to 50 meters wouldn’t hurt anyone and would actually give people to use it. Is it any different than people asking for a .223 or 6.5mm buff?

Also, you basically proved my point with the screenshots you’ve provided. If at 10-15 meters buckshot can blow straight through metal, why hasn’t it penetrated straight through that whitetail?

[versed dawn]

It does not penetrate because the animal has already died, animals have a life bar, when life runs out the bullet no longer penetrates, the animal dies before the bullet reaches another organ.
The same thing happens with the Birdshot in class 1 animals that only have 1 life point like ducks or EU rabbits, you only see the superficial impact of a single pellet because the animal already died on impact

[pliant terrace]

I assumed the round would get full penetration before the animal dies, colour me surprised in that regard. But I still would like to see buckshot being effective at up to 50 meters with just a tad bit reduced spread. It would still require you to get just as close as you would with a bow, I don’t think that’s asking for too much whatsoever

[wintry rune]

I'd love a buckshot buff so I actually have a reason to use it

[wintry rune]

If that's the case why doesn't the bullet stop whenever it reaches the heart on an animal?

[versed dawn]

all the animals have a different amount of life, just look at the Moose, those must have at least 1000 points xD.
Apparently some animals have more or less life, for example pigs or sheep die as soon as their hearts are hit and the bullet does not perforate, that is the famous "single shot heart" that looks great on the xray, but others animals take a hit to the heart and the bullet keeps going through because it still has life points left.

[wintry rune]

Where are you getting this information? When an animal is shot in the heart, it dies instantly, as the game dictates. However, I've had the bullet penetrate through the heart and into the lungs, liver and beyond, which invalidates what you're saying

[versed dawn]

Old old devstreams, steam guides and a couple of interviews with the developers, there are several that were done when the game was released, like the one that explains the scare bars and animal behavior, there's also a couple about the apex engine and rendering xD

Some of us also experiment a lot with shotgun ammunition and how much damage they do, it is a missing indicator since each ammunition does specific damage, I think they didn't want the game to look like an RPG so they didn't put it xD

[heady stirrup]

I heared from a licensed german hunter — birdshot kills the animal, birds of course, not by penetrating rather then by killing by the force of impact. The pellets dont have to penetrate to kill.

Do someone know if buckshot maybe works the same way?

[pliant terrace]

The problem with that is that you have to hit vital organs to pass all 4 harvest checks and get the full medal. Allowing buckshot to actually reach well into the lungs at ranges of around 40-50m would make it actually viable instead of something you use once a millennia and have to get closer to the animal than you would with a bow

[wintry rune]

This is the main reason buckshot needs a buff imo. Currently there's not really a reason to use it because literally anything else would work better, but everything should have at least some use in game.

[pliant terrace]

Precisely. If I have to get within 20 meters then I might as well use a bow because then I know it’ll actually get into a vital organ unlike buckshot where I don’t even know it’ll penetrate far enough on a whitetail

[terse viper]

The Buckshot buff would be nice considering the most recent reserve idea I put out is kind of perfect for shotguns (https://discord.com/channels/393040947006406657/1096276973329846362)

[midnight igloo]

Bump

[stuck maple]

Buff buckshot please

[stable rune]

Too many buff this / buff that threads. Everyone has a gun they need buffed at this point. What we need is a comprehensive rework of terminal ballistics in general and it starts with a massive increase in penetration.
The developers can adjust the 'difficulty' for balance by reducing the HP damage of each projectile accordingly.
Also, most of the shotguns need spread reduction (i.e. chokes) more than anything.

[glacial kiln]

True, I agree. However, I think it's unlikely that we'll get a comprehensive rework of all the guns in the game at this point. That being said, shotgun chokes would be a great addition.

[drowsy cliff]

not really a solution, but it's a temporary "fix" for the time being... if you add the "boomstick" perk (the last one under Shotguns) and use a double-barrel shotgun, when it's active, both barrels will fire as one shot and then you have 40x the chance of hitting vitals with all the extra pellets. I do this within 75m (82 yds.) and it works fine for me. Boomstick takes the place of Zeroing but if you know you're close you don't really need Zeroing at that moment

[slim tendon]

bump

[midnight igloo]

Buckshot bump.

[slim tendon]

16GA buckshot on a roe deer from under 14 m.

It dropped fast but the harvest check was clearly no good. Not a good feeling.

Maybe rework the system so that the check for an ethical shot is EITHER hitting a vital organ OR getting above a certain % quick kill. That might also be a way to address the weakness of expansive ammo in the game.

[pseudo vessel]

Please EW do something about this

[olive lodge]

Agree it. Especially buckshot is too weak to use.

[void fossil]

they released a 10 gauge, but it still has the same huge spread at 50m and poor penetration.. i never use buckshot for this reason. only birdshot when hunting waterfowl maybe people would actually use it more often if it was viable past 20-30m as it would just make more sense to use a bow or any other rifle.

even if they added a dlc for chokes to tighten up the spread i will buy it if that would satisfy the devs. Shotguns need a rework/ buff no doubt about it.

[gusty ferry]

.410 is just as pathetic and needs a buff. Turkey laughed at me when I shot it with it.

[deft fossil]

Yea I use buckshot alot an sometimes it does get a lung, but I used the 20 and 10 gauge an most of the time it won't lung a roe deer at 15 meters. Please buff

[vocal edge]

absolutely agree with topic, buckshot feels like birdshot, but with less parts. no damage, little penetration, large spread, Zero sense

[glacial kiln]

bringing this back from the dead because I think all of the shotguns in the game could really benefit from a buckshot buff

[olive lodge]

agree.
shotguns are too weak and too slow to use. need to buff speed and power, need to decrease spread.