Daybreak feedback

[obtuse epoch]

Please stop making the map smaller. That will defeat the purpose of a new map in the first place.

[alpine horizon]

Yep v3 was a good size now we are to small

Just revert

And add/ modify things to v3

[forest lance]

farming=boring
fighting=awesome

[vocal echo]

scrap daybreak and make a new design

It needs too many changes it needs to be taken out and seriously looked at then come back in like 3-6 months

[glass tulip]

Still think they should rework legacy. Widen lanes, remove choke points, and straighten out jungle corridors

[balmy cliff]

U still want them to reuse old assets that make the game more complicated to develop ?

[alpine horizon]

Constant fighting is just as bad as only farming. Fights should have meaning when they occur not be fights just to fight because the maps to small and everyone can reach one another without already traveling to a location. Its problematic

[peak latch]

#1474408512347177131

[obtuse epoch]

if u want constant fighting play deadlock

[wise shard]

I think he was being ironic saying that

Or rather, the implied thought process by Omeda behind the change

[quartz girder]

while i agree, deathballing = no fun

fast ttk (cause map is small) = no fun also

so bigger map = longer TTK = while keeping deathballing sameish = more fun

at least imo

i think lanes in legacy gamemode where super good (duolane just needed to be wider)

duolane rn is just so unfun cause right hand peek is still so doable in lane without loosing farm from it

[hazy oriole]

Yeah it's really sad that we never had a fair shot for Legacy map, people wanted legacy map for what this map offered but instead we get a deformed legacy map bringing all the bad things that we didn't like from original map, cluttered small jungle with labyrinthine jungle paths, small lanes to fight on, we got 2 teleporters that made the return to base incredibly fast, maintained the teleporters that makes the rotations a joke

It's like they did the Legacy map people were asking for, but removing the reason of why people wanted the Legacy map to begin with

And now it's exactly the same with Daybreak V4, they are modifying the map in a way that goes against the reason people wanted a new main map for Predecessor

[glass tulip]

They’re listening too much to community feedback and need a clear vision themselves

[vocal echo]

The map doesn't seem to have its own vision

They just want to please the community which they can never do 100% they need to have a clear idea of what they want for the map with maybe a couple parts that need community feedback

This map feels 30% done when we should be testing something that's 90% done with feedback on last 10%

[tiny shale]

I’d be willing to bet the map started out just copying legacy. V1 had had a lot of similarities and pretty much exactly what you’re describing.

[wise shard]

The map has a much older history

And it isn't played in its intended way

It's rather shoehorned into Pred

[vital heath]

Using legacy is just a non starter from a development perspective. They have already described the challenges of updating sanctuary because they are borrowed assets not optimized for quick edits and changes.

And we are seeing how quickly Cynic is able to take feedback from the community and adept and change the map.

If they are going to take the time to build a map from the ground up, I want them to do it with their vision. And there vision seems to want to also include a lot of community feedback.

The process feels messy, because it should be messy. Omeda could have very easily waited to refine and polish something to roll out.

But they want to build something with us. I appreciate that. And eventually they are going to reach a point where they feel good about going in a certain direction.

It's not about getting 100% buy in. But iterating the way they are with the community is pretty remarkable.

[balmy cliff]

It didn't

[vital heath]

Ohh yeah, I remember seeing this a while ago

[balmy cliff]

people just be saying stuff and dont actually follow the development process

[glass tulip]

I just don’t think changing everything based on community feedback is a good thing this early in the dev stage.

Should be more dev time between each iteration that doesn’t involve community driven changes. It’s good to get community feedback but I think they’re weighting it too heavily

And maybe they learn from this process and do it a bit better as time goes on

But the Omeda design vision vs community feedback design is too weighted towards community

[vital heath]

We don't know that

Cynic is making these decisions

[glass tulip]

Sure seems like it after 4 iterations

Sometimes you can’t listen to players and need to stick to your own vision. It’s a hard balance

Not everyone is going to like the map you create and you can’t create a map that everyone likes

[vital heath]

Sorry, I just think dinging Omeda for listening to the community is a horrible message to send to the devs.

Many people complain that they don't listen to the community. And now they are listening too much?

Idk, I'll stop there cause I am pulling away from feedback on the actual design of daybreak. We can go back and forth on the right level of listening to community voice all day 🙂

[glass tulip]

You’re right, getting off topic!

[vital heath]

I appreciate the convo tho!

[vagrant parcel]

Hot take but personally think they should have never made this a community feedback type of development.

1. It just lengthens the process because your having to wait on feedback to come in then have to filter through it.

2. You have a mixed crowd of nitro and ARAM players along with Ranked and MOBA enthusaists giving feedback here and the Nitro and ARAM type players takes are gonna be heavily skewed to there style of gameplay which will influence development in the opposite direction of what its intended for.

Bless them for wanting the community to take part in this but the community can also make things more difficult.

[jolly estuary]

i appreciate devs taking on the huge pain in the ahh that is molding an evolving map through iterations of community feedback, and actually i like the current version, idm if they take long, they are giving themselves to our criteria and thats tough, given some people are rude as shi, bless them x2

[tiny shale]

Well may not have started that way but the first version we got was very similar regardless

[balmy cliff]

they copied legacy yes because it has good features but they cant remake legacy because using the old assets is way more work even if they wanted to recreate legacy 1 to 1 i still think its better to do it from scratch

[tiny shale]

I agree I’m saying people always say rework legacy with a different jungle which is pretty damn close to what we got v1

[balmy cliff]

oh yea thats fair

[olive sand]

I don't understand that, when we have a current map that is using old assets that are way harder to use and repurpose.

The current map is no different than Legacy.

They're old pre-made assets that aren't very easy to just customize or place in and aren't very easily workable.

[serene jewel]

For me personally I think the map size is fine where it is now, I think maybe either buff the lane minions up some or shorten the lanes a smidge not a lot, as for the teles instead of having them take you to the jg only maybe mix in them letting you being able to rotate to any lane to help your teammates out. Other then minor shit to me I think the map is good right now, just need more time on it truthfully.

[vagrant parcel]

Im just sick of the Legacy and Sanctuary talk and comparisions, Im so ready to drive a stake in the heart of both of them and get a fresh new map of Omedas own design so they can ship it and do some advertising with it.

[serene jewel]

I wish I could talk on the other maps but I’m a straight pred player sadly ha

[vagrant parcel]

No shame in that

[serene jewel]

In enjoy the game just want the new map to keep tht going

Just a lot of open area and space on the map

[vagrant parcel]

What we have now is jast the layout with place holder easthetics, once Cynic gets done it goes to art and they will add filler like foliage, statues, etc which will fill it out.

[serene jewel]

Ah bet

I’m excited for the new changes maybe add some doors back to the fang and prime would be nice

Lowkey ran into hella walls trying to help the team

[balmy cliff]

Notice how frost world shift had to be removed because it had issues with the map it would be way easier to fix on a map they built from scratch

Bugs map editing not to mention they want to make their own assets legacy map and current map are holding the game back

[vagrant parcel]

Im so sick of hearing about both of them, I really want to nuke both of them and move on. I have been saying use the current map for Nitro but Im kinda ready to just start from scratch on that too.

[alpine horizon]

I agree with a lot said here the difference from v3 to v4 is extreme and shifts to much who its targeting whether because they are trying to please both parties or not it is worse for strategic moba wants and better for nitro. I could tell after 2 matches I wasnt going to play much this patch.

[balmy cliff]

It's like giving Toyota a Bugatti to fix sure they can probably make Smt work but they will never fix that car as efficiently because they didn't make it themselves

[alpine horizon]

I also find it very wierd to shrink more when the majority of what I was seeing for feedback with v3 was the maps size is borderline perfect 🤷‍♂️

[balmy cliff]

I mean it's still bigger than sanctuary but I don't like how close the inhibs are to the core

[alpine horizon]

I think its the combination of redoing the walls and shrinking

I liked the last jungle way more interesting feel and distances to travel. This new one feels to much like sanctuary

Boxed in

[vagrant parcel]

I was suprised to see this too, but it seems Cynic is changing things up big time next version and stated he is making mid lane longer and wider so he has to make the map bigger to do that, we will see what happens.

[wise shard]

Pretty sure the frost stuff was their own assets

The bugs were mostly related to abilities being "raycasted" from too high up, making them end up on top of the ice

This caused Aurora especially to completely bug out

It's in fact an issue with how the heroes are coded, rather than a problem with the map/frost itself

[balmy cliff]

Yea I know I figured it just didn't mix well with the Paragon map. So bad example I guess point still stands tho they can iterate on the map more efficiently if they build from the start

[high dagger]

Is it me or is it harder to gank side lanes as jungle? They see me from miles away especially offlane